I can't believe that this batshit insane motherfucker is

>>46130336
>is a national hero
>reduced crime levels by something crazy like 500%
>saved the entire kingdom from being taken over by Muslims
I don't see anything that suggests he is not lawful or good.

>>46130336
>anime
>not retarded
pick one

>>46130336
Nasu alignment =/= D&D alignment.

>>46130449
Cool joke, but you might have an easier time finding someone to laugh at it on Reddit and not on a anime website.

>>46130336
We had this thread yesterday and I appreciate your attempts to recapture the magic but I doubt it's gonna work.

That being said. OT, Nasu LAWFUL means you work in favor of the status quote of the current world, while CHAOTIC means you intend to upend the human social order. Nasu GOOD means you are PRODUCTIVE AND PROACTIVE TOWARDS A GOAL, Nasu EVIL means you have no goals and only exist in the moment or for pleasure. Hence why Gilgamesh, who wants to genocide 3/4thd the world's population, is CG, because he works proactively and productively towards a goal that is in opposition to the current status quo.

>>46130603
I was under the interpretation that Gilgamesh was the result of a botched summoning/influence of the Holy Grail, where his true aspect is a boisterous LG, but his actions in the Fate timeline are the result of his spirit being corrupted.

>>46130667
Yeah, that's not anything near what happened

>>46130336
Impaling Turks is doing God's work, son.
Or are you some sorta faggot-ass ottoman?

>>46130667
No Gil is always like that. The only things that effect his personality is

1. He bathed in the Grail. Technically, this is not supposed to have corrupted him, but given some discontent between Zero and Stay/Night, it may have done so at least a little. Personally I don't think it did though, he was always sorta fucked up.

2. The modern world enrages him. Like, you don't even know. He fucking hates this place, and it puts him into a permament bad mood, especially once he spent 10 years really getting to know it. Which is why in Zero he's all composed and in Stay/Night he's more on edge.

>>46130796
He bathed in the Grails filfth but basically said NO, FUCK YOU I AM THE HYPE and through sheer willpower and arrogance maintained his sense of self.

Just because the law is "thieves/murderers/terrorists/rapists/turks/deserters/rebels get a giant spike through their anus and out their mouth" does not mean following it is chaotic or evil behavior.

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>>46130667
Gilgamesh was angry and depressed because he saw the modern world as hedonistic and inferior to his time period, which gave him a negative temperament and drove him to desire to reshape the world to one more like his own. In later time line Fate works (hollow ateraxia, extra ccc, etc.) he realizes he enjoys the modern world, and is much less angry, albeit he is a much more stable state of summoning in extra and is in child form in hollow ateraxia

>>46130796
>this place sucks
>what the fuck is a TV
>lol look at the shit heaps they fly around in
>my ancient Babylonian jet fighter is way better
>poorfags aint even got a vault
>I hate shoes
>my feet hurt
>I miss endeku
>even if he did stop me getting my fuck on that one time

>>46130857
Its harsh but fair.

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>>46130834
I love how that works. See, for the rest of the thread, the Holy Grail basically contains [due to more shit that happened] the sum totality of the world's curses, and is basically possessed by the ultimate evil, a being of pure evil, pure chaos, pure NO. A negative denial of life, selfhood, personality, and so forth. It is pure nihilism.

Normally, when someone falls in it, they are physically incarnated, at the cost of going insane. The being in the Grail confronts them, and blackens their soul by all its pure despair.

Gilgamesh, as the king of the world, and the OG ubermensch, basically appears in the Grail and this conversation takes place.

Holy Grail: "You know, the world kinda sucks."

Gilgamesh: "Its cool. It makes you stronger."

Holy Grail: "No seriously man, there's like starving kids in Africa, and pedophiles, and some really fucked up stuff on Tumblr. Whose gonna take responsibility for all that?"

Gilgamesh: "I will"

Holy Grail: "Wait what?"

Gilgamesh: "I will bear the burden of this world. I accept all of this as the inevitable consequence of the world. My will be done."

Holy Grail: "But. But. But. This is pure nihilism! Pure lack of self! There's nothing here! No one! I'm alone!"

Gilgamesh: "Then who are you talking to right now?"

And then the Grail said "You know what fuck you, here's your free body, now GTFO"

I love Gilgamesh.

>>46130920
Basically this

Gilgamesh had a hard life when he wasn't raping all of the citizens of his city

>>46130414
Yah, Vlad the Impaler was fucking awesome.
Why the fuck are they talking about anime and who is Nasu?

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>>46131192
Nasu is a man who has made a fortune off a series centered around summoning legends and inspiring figures from human history to do battle.
One such figure was Vlad III, who has shown up three times across various titles in the series. This was his form where his fervorous faith had driven him loopy (but also given him powerful defenses).

>>46131192
What >>46131315 said.
If you know Fate/Stay Night or Fate/Zero, then you got the basic gist of it.
It's very anime and rule-of-cool.

>>46130560
>gb2reddit
>4chan is an anime website

Try having an original thought sometime, friend. You might like it.

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>>46131770
great bait

>>46130336
He's better than the Vlad that is butthurt about being Dracula

>>46130667
Gil is right though. Killing all the humans will basically bring back the age of demigods and the majority of current-day humans are basically weeds in accordance with the standards of the Nasuverse, so their demise is inconsequential.

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>>46134922
The general ideology of "kill lots of people for the greater good" is honestly still more of a Lawful Evil thing either way.

I do like how Marvel also has their version of Gilgamesh dislike modern humanity, but instead of going all murder, he just becomes a lazy bum.

>>46130336
Nasuverse is dogshit in general

>>46134922
>Killing all the humans will basically bring back the age of demigods
You might not be up to date with Nasu lore.
The age of gods is sealed underneath the current world, pinned beneath the anchor-spear called Rhongomyniad. It would need to be found and destroyed for dragons to make a comeback.
However, doing so is far more likely to just destabilize the world and send everyone into a Notes-like apocalypse than bring about a new utopian age of gods.

>>46134922
The setting is terrible, composed by the hackiest of writers.

>>46130336
He singlehandedly saved Europe from the Mudslimes. Spoopy Dracula bullshit aside, that sounds both lawful and good to me.

>>46134977
That's operating under the feel-good assumption that the lives of the millions of Joe the Plumbers around the world are inherently valuable, and not just a pointless drain on humanity's finite pool of collective badassery. Sadly Gil is totally right and humanity would be objectively better off if their numbers were massively culled, because the race only has X amount of awesome to split between everyone.

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And this beauty is neutral evil, so don't take nasu alignments seriously, and she is my waifu.

>>46135110
She is neutral evil, though. She's neither inherently inclined towards order or disorder and she has absolutely no qualms with murdering people who really haven't done anything to deserve it.

>>46135072
>drain on humanity's finite pool of collective badassery. Sadly Gil is totally right and humanity would be objectively better off if their numbers were massively culled, because the race only has X amount of awesome to split between everyone
Mystery isn't distributed so much as depleted, though. Killing loads of people doesn't bring it back.

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>>46130603
>in favor of the status quote

>>46135110
Caster being neutral evil makes sense, though. Sure, she doesn't have any evil goals or ambitions, mostly just wanting to live with the joy of devoting herself in her entirety to someone and having her devotion reciprocated in equal measure, but she doesn't really care about other people, is viciously spiteful and merciless towards her enemies and has no qualms about planting chaos, death and destruction (though only to a certain point) if it grants her wishes.

>>46130336
Don't worry, when he's in full command of his faculties and mostly concerned with erasing his legend as Dracula he's LN. So just remember, crazy fanatic Vlad with vampiric is a more moral person than Vlad with his full faculties and no vampirism.

>>46135202
Fate/Extra Vlad isn't a vampire, he just has a bloody, fanged appearance due to Seraphic Monstrosity.

>>46135202
Vlad the Impaler being a vampire is dumb, it makes much more sense when he's a vampire hunter.

>>46135211
Argh, meant to say vampiric traits.

>>46135221
Blame Bram Stoker. Vlad hates the idea of being conflated with an unholy walking dead.

>>46135221
It's mostly a result of the various distortions his story suffered and Bram Stoker's Dracula becoming so closely linked with Vlad in the mind of people that they ended up influencing his abilities as a Heroic Spirit.

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>>46135110
same anon lets have some more tamamo!

>>46135276
What's really fun is he's a Vampire when under the influence of that, not a Dead Apostle. I'm almost sad we never got to see Legend of Dracula active Vlad go up against a Dead Apostle, and not just because it would allow you to steal lines from Hellsing Abridged about being "A real fucking vampire".

>>46135486
Didn't it scare the grail so fucking much, Ruler pretty much had to stop the war for a moment and tell everyone to murder the fuck out of him?

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>>46135649
That was more of another facet of the setting, relating to Melty Blood.
Vlad III becoming a bloodthirsty vampire caused the fictitious rumor to become a truth, which made the local concentration of TATARI spike towards critical mass.
Basically, the Night of Wallachia was going to begin very, very shortly.
And that leaves no survivors.

>>46135716
So basically a lot like when Zero!Caster summoned Cthulhu?

>>46135742
Somewhat.
That could be killed by a sufficient scale Noble Phantasm even if it did reach land and start eating people.
Once the Night of Wallachia begins, it doesn't stop until sunrise, and by that time, everyone is dead.

>>46135764
I'm not to up on my Naus lore, but ism't Night of Wallachia that vampire that doesn't actually exist that causes all rumors to become true?

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>>46135811
Essentially. It's like a recurring weather phenomenon more than an individual.
TATARI (false rumors believed and repeated by humans) gathers, and once it reaches a certain density, the Night of Wallachia begins to materialize the TATARI in a festival of blood.
Though it was started using a vampire as the template and its main function is to drain the entire area of effect of blood, it can't really be described as a person so much as a circumstance.

>>46135842
Is there a servant that can kill TATARI? not kill him permenantly like arcuied can do just kill him?

>>46135742
Did they literally summon Cthulhu or are you just using that as shorthand for gribbly tentacles in general.

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>>46136120
Enuma Elish would be sufficient to end the Night of Wallachia since it would destroy the distorted reality.
So Gilgamesh is fine.
Everyone else is screwed. It's not something you can fight with power. Arcueid herself couldn't deal with it alone.

>>46136176
Can't she just summon a red moon and rip him to bits ? I havn't played melty blood

>>46136170
Actually it was Gilles de Rais in eldritch abomination form.

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>>46136195
Nope. Summoning the crimson moon takes 100% of her power, she has to pick between invoking it or doing anything else at all. She's can't even move, much less attack or defend herself, while it's in effect.

Considering "summoning" the crimson moon is actually causing a localized spacetime distortion that rips the now into the year 3000, it's kind of difficult.

>>46136227
i still wonder if solomon could kill her...

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>>46136170
It's an obvious reference to Cthulhu that is not actually Cthulhu.
It's summoned from the book of the "Sunken Spiraled City", a demon-summoning grimoire bound in human flesh, with the incantation "Cthulhu fhtagn" being used to summon a tiny fragment of the being.
But in the end, it's a giant ball of gribbly grabbly tentacles. Astoundingly difficult to kill due to the fact that it regenerates fast enough to recover 1/3rd its mass in a couple seconds, but no psychic terror. It's a huge threat for mortals, and just a severely frustrating obstacle for heroes.

>>46136170
It was never directly stated to be Big C himself, but the hints were obvious enough, what with the description of his noble phantasm being a copy of the Necronomicon and activated with 'cthulhu ftagn'.

>>46136222
Look closer, he summoned it first then merged with it.

http://imgur.com/a/Poteg

Dumas is the greatest

Also the female villain here is apparently Prelati

>>46136176
gil sama is so handsome :3

>>46136264
I wonder if she has the spellbook still....

>>46136241
Solomon did kill her. Solomon killed the world, the counter force, the past, the future, goddamn everything. The slate is wiped clean. Outside Chaldea and the singularities, nothing alive exists. (Don't ask about ORT though. Can you even consider that to be alive to begin with?)

The only possible exception is Avalon. His reach managed to spear into the other side of the world and the closed-off Land of Shadows, but we don't know about Merlin. Fou is still fouing about, so maybe..

>>46136289
isn't the reason merlin is still about is cause he is at the time bubbles?

>>46136289
>Solomon did kill her. Solomon killed the world, the counter force, the past, the future, goddamn everything.

Huh?

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>>46136309
Welcome to Fate/Grand Order.
Everybody and everything is fucking dead.
Courtesy of the King of Magecraft and Israel, Solomon son of David.

>>46136358
Man, David dun fucked up

is he Lawful Good?

>>46136370
actually solomon IS lawful good.

>>46136387
wew

>>46136358

...that is not the face of a man I'd call 'Wise'.

>>46130336
Servant alignments are how they were perceived in their era, hence how a rat bastard like Gilgamesh is CG and Heroic Spirit Emiya was a hero but was so unknown he is TN.

>>46136403
>>46136387
>>46136370
From what i've heard he's pretending to be evil to test creation or something, and actually has no malice for reality.

>>46136422

Was creation failing the test part of his plan?

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>>46136289
at least best kouhai is alive

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>>46136370
Legitimately yes.
>>46136403
That's just when he's all worked up.
>>46136422
Oh no, he's full of malice. The tests are over; humanity flunked out and he's pissed about it.
He's Gilgamesh taken to the extreme. Gilgamesh thinks there's still 0.001% of humanity worthy of ruling over and the rest just need to be pruned. Solomon flat thinks nobody is worthy, pack it up and go home, humanity is just not good enough for his standards.

>>46130336
Do you folks prefer Extra or Apoc design for Vlad

>>46136449
fittingly old testament of him

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>>46136454
and since I'm a goober here's a pic of the other one for reference

>>46136449
>Oh no, he's full of malice. The tests are over; humanity flunked out and he's pissed about it.

Too fucking bad mate. Substitutionary atonement motherfucker!

>>46136476

That one is vastly better than the red spikesuit.

>>46136449
>Oh no, he's full of malice. The tests are over; humanity flunked out and he's pissed about it.
Didn't Dantes or one of the writers point out that his anger is just bullshit?

>>46136454
>>46136476
I feel Apoc design is more "Dracula" flavorful but I like Extra design more as a heavily armored badass.
So the blood and the spikes are a little chuuni, it's still cool.

>>46136476
I think the Extra design is a bit more fitting for Vlad the Impaler, but Apoc Vlad is just a better design in general.

So between the fact that the Earth itself wants to kill humanity, the fact that the ancient heroes want to kill humanity, and the fact that the emissaries of GOD want to kill Humanity, if humanity is so shit why are they still alive? Who the fuck is the goodguy? Is it the corrupt, machiavellian mages for a change? Don't tell me that fagboy Shirou.

>>46136475
speaking of Old Testament

Grand Assassin Cain?
Grand Berserker Samson?

>>46136499
Not quite. Dantes doesn't like Solomon because despite being wrathful, Solomon has no evil or darkness within him. He's no avenger. He's a perfectly spotless and good destroyer.
Which basically makes Dantes weirded the fuck out because he wants malevolence and corruption, as a servant he's more like the spirit of revenge than the sailor who became a count.

>>46136528
King Arthur and the Round Table, mostly.
Despite being a group of fuckups themselves who died primarily due to infighting, they genuinely love mankind and want it to prosper. Galahad was genuine enough to give Mashu his powers.

>>46136568

What's this about Galahad?

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>>46136532
Dantesronpa is such a chuuni fuck

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>>46136582
The Chaldea security organization, a group of scientists, magi, and otherwise advanced people interested in the continued preservation of humanity, developed a system to summon servants and planned to have a great big contingent of servants and masters.
However, Solomon's solomoning began pretty much immediately after they summoned their first servant, Galahad of the Round Table. Galahad's Master died along with most of Chaldea and the rest of the planet.
As Galahad was fading away, he bequeathed his shield (itself a piece of the Round Table and a conceptual anchor of "a place where heroes gather", on top of a representation of Camelot as an invincible fortress) and statistics to Mashu Kyrielight, a clerk of Chaldea and the first person he could find that wasn't dead.

>>46136528
>So between the fact that the Earth itself wants to kill humanity
Gaia doesn't strictly believe that humanity deserves destruction. It just wants humans dead because they will eventually kill her and even a planet has self-preservation instincts.
>the fact that the ancient heroes want to kill humanity
Gil is actually a massive HFYfag. It's just the current humanity isn't as badass as the one from his time and the only way he knows how to fix shit is to genocide the useless masses and rebuild humanity in all its glory using those that remain.
>and the fact that the emissaries of GOD want to kill Humanity
The Christian God isn't actually the God-creator in the Nasuverse, just another powerful divine spirit. The actual Big G of the setting doesn't give a fuck about humanity in the first place. Solomon is a pretty big deal, but he's not exactly the supreme judge who gets to decide what's wrong and what's right on an universal level.
>if humanity is so shit why are they still alive
Because Alaya makes sure humanity survives.

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>>46136568
>Memequeen and the round shits

As much as I love Authurian lore and it's undeniably the thing that got me into Fate, Saber needs to fuck off (or become Proto-Saber because fuck your gender bent waifu shit). I liked it at first but in making her into a waifu they stripped all personality out of her.

I did like the fact that Lancelot actually managed to make Galahad step back

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVLuwjATjxA

>>46136617

That's pretty cool. Nice to see a hero who genuinely wants to help people. You know, for damn once.

Now I'm sad that we won't see Galahad himself (Or herself, this IS Fate so I'm not sure) in a game as a full 'Actually fighting' servant.

>>46136651
>You know, for damn once.
What do you expect when 99% of historical and mythological heroes are just really fucking good murderhobos?

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>>46136651
Ozy's a pretty cool guy as long as you don't get all up in his business by defiling his beloved's resting place or what have you

he's basically Gil but better

>>46134977
Marvel Hercules is stronger though
He is a planet buster level

>>46136642
Lancelot a best.
Imagine if he had a proper master.

>>46135162
The problem is the throne of heroes, every time we get someone cool they get pulled out of the cycle and only the losers keep reincarnating

>>46136717
>Lancelot with Ilya

Ohh baby

>>46136791
>Gilgamesh with Rin
Ah, things we will never have.

>>46136718
its not really reincarnating is it? its more recycling since the soul disperses and only the memories survive in the origin which is the only thing that remains, also i have a theory that the Throne of heroes is manmade by some ancient mage or god.

>>46136833
>Rin Gil
>Rin Tesla
>Rin Arjuna
>Rin Artemis/Orion

5* Archers are a cool bunch

>>46136944
I actually wish that in the loliRin episode she interacted with Gilgamesh instead of what we got. Had so much potential.

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>>46136617
Nasu please

>>46137207
Hey fgt when's next torpedo sluts

>>46130796
>Technically, this is not supposed to have corrupted him, but given some discontent between Zero and Stay/Night, it may have done so at least a little.
It wasn't the Grail that corrupted Gil. It couldn't corrupt him, because he is so absolute.

However, when he was incarnated into a human body, the human side of his heritage came bubbling up over the top, and with that came the malice and hatred and all the worst parts of humanity, coupled with the fact that he really does fucking hate modern humans for being so useless. You see his true perspective more clearly in CCC.

He's tsundere for humanity, kind of. But yeah, it didn't corrupt him, it's just that getting incarnated made him more human.

>>46134995
>pinned beneath the anchor-spear called Rhongomyniad
>Saber is the reason we can't have Age of Gods

That fucking whore. I want my Hindu Magic Fighter Jet.

>>46130336
>Nasuverse alignments a shit
He took DnD alignments and tried to make them work outside of DnD. Of course they are

>>46133223
>proving anime is for autists.
Right on buddy.

>>46137818
To be fair, it's not like she knew that she was slaying the last dragon and thus the last remnant of the Age of Gods.

>>46136358
All of this shit 'cause that one prick didn't off himself. Geeze, the Nasuverse just totters perpetually on the brink of destruction, doesn't it? It's like an object lesson in the anthropic principle. The world only survived this long in the first place because there's infinite iterations of it under the auspices of the Kaleidoscope, so an uncountable number of them will pass through the 0.0000001% keyhole of survival each day with things just barely managing to not go completely wrong.

>>46137971
Wasn´t that her uncle, Vol-something, the very embodiement of britain?

>>46138028
No, Solomon destroyed it all. Past, present, and future are gone. Chaldea is capable of time travel and the past is totally destroyed too.
Literally the only things left are 7 black spots on the timeline called singularities (which turn out to be extremely abnormal holy grail wars) and Chaldea itself.

It's not something the Kaleidoscope can evade. Solomon's pissed.

>>46138069
So what does Solomon's hissy fit mean for Zeltrech, or Aoko, or other Magic users?

>>46138069
Unless Solomon did this in every possible parallel universe, that can't be true. The Kaleidoscope transcends the boundaries of the world, so striking at another universe requires a True Magic. Is Solomon a fucking Magician on top of being a god-tier magus?

>>46138116
Solomon is the reason Magecraft exists, anon. He invented it, turning Magic into Magecraft. So yes.

>>46136625
Isn't Alaya just humanity's collective self-preservation instinct? Saying "humanity survives because Alaya preserves it" is like saying "humanity survives because it fights to survive," isn't it?

>>46138069
Bah, it's not like it won't be fixed somehow.

You know, it really bothers me how much more important the HGW has become on the grand scale. The whole reason only a handful of mages ever went to participate in it and the MA and Church never bothered to do more than send a single participant or observer each is because it was a fairly unimportant event, with a large amount of other weird shit happening all around the world at all times that took priority. Nowadays, the HGW just consumed the whole setting in its entirety.

>>46138144
Grand Classes are the ultra top tier shit, right? Like, above Gil even

>>46138171
Alaya is the one that births and controls Counter Guardians. As Archer himself revealed, every time shit goes completely south and humanity is nearing destruction, Alaya summons CGs or empowers people capable of preventing the catastrophe to handle the problem. The whole HGW is a copy of Alaya's system that summons the seven greatest Heroic Spirits to handle world-ending threats.

>>46138274
Not exactly. Grand Classes are just heroic spirits that best embody their Classes. It's a title that doesn't actually have anything directly to do with a Servant's power, though it's highly likely that all Grand Classes are OP as fuck, yes.

>>46138116

Put it this way: Solomon is to True Magic as Shirou is to swords. There is no magus greater than him in any timeline, ever, period. He destroyed everything, including Zelretch, including Zelretch in his prime in the past.

>>46138328
Pretty sure Merlin is still alive. The guy never becomes part of the Throne of Heroes, despite it existing outside of the constraints of time and space. He probably just lives on for eternity in every timeline he becomes worthy of being recorded as a Heroic spirit, meaning even Solomon's bullshit probably didn't end him.

>>46138370

The Throne can't take any souls if the Throne itself is destroyed, anon.

>>46138370
Merlin seems to be the only agent capable of acting against Solomon, and Chaldea is his weapon. The war is still on at this point.

>>46138208
In effect, the "Holy Grail War" ritual is just a corrupted imitation of the Heroic Spirit Summoning ritual. The Einzberns and their Heaven's Feel ritual only copied the blueprints of this natural weaponized phenomenon. Other people since have copied their blueprints and it's escalated and gotten weird.

>>46138370

Merlin himself has pretty directly stated he can't beat Solomon. Not on his own, at least, which is why Chaldea summoning an army of Heroic Spirits is necessary to find a way to stop Solomon.

>>46138432
True Altera fits in there somewhere too right? She had that Mars sword and all

>>46138328
I'm trying to reconcile this with my prior knowledge of the setting's mechanics and failing utterly. I'm not sucking Zelretch's wrinkly vampire dick here, this isn't me trying to ask about how him 1v1ing Solomon IRL would work out. The True Magic Kaleidoscope itself, independent of Zelretch as its current living wielder, was (I thought) the only thing that allowed the movement of matter, energy or information between parallel universes. The only way to obtain a True Magic is to either inherit it from a living wielder or blaze an independent path to the Root, behold a sliver of Infinity without being consumed or sublimating, and then turn back and reenter the world like a Bodhisattva coming back bearing enlightenment. Solomon straight shouldn't have that power.

Nasuverse mechanics have never been explained in great (or consistent) detail, but this shit is really pushing my buttons.

>>46138420
What the hell does that even mean? The Throne doesn't even exist in physical reality.

>>46138477
As yet, her circumstance is a complete unknown. Lev accidentally summoned her and she went renegade, but during the Orion event Artemis said she doesn't have her real sword; instead whatever she's holding becomes the sword of Mars. Artemis considers her an enemy of the gods and the whole world due to the abilities of Photon Ray (which apparently depletes the entire planet of magical energy and sends the world straight into Notes territory).

She is a destroyer of civilization, born of civilization, though, and a standing fan theory is that Attila at her full potential is the threat that the seven Grand Servants were assembled to halt.

>>46138481
>Nasuverse mechanics have never been explained in great (or consistent) detail, but this shit is really pushing my buttons.
Honestly, at this point I'm betting that Solomon is just bullshitting everyone by trapping Chaldea in a Reality Marble and in such a way testing them.

>>46138481
>The only way to obtain a True Magic is to either inherit it from a living wielder or blaze an independent path to the Root, behold a sliver of Infinity without being consumed or sublimating, and then turn back and reenter the world like a Bodhisattva coming back bearing enlightenment. Solomon straight shouldn't have that power.
Solomon has Clairvoyance EX, or eyes that peer through the root and see all times and places.
He can see how the second true magic was developed, if he so desired. He can see how it will be achievable as a mundane application in the far future when the true magic dies, too.

>>46138521
Which part of his legend is it that's manifested as the Noble Phantasm that lets him one-shot the fucking planet? I don't recall that part of the Bible.

>>46138512
>Notes

That reminds me

Slash Emperor is a fuggin cool name

>>46138558
Holy shit.

I give up.

I can't Nasu this hard. It's not good for my health.

>>46138563
Hey, if Nasu can take a single line from Mallory about how Excalibur shone like thirty torches and turn that into Seibah's beamu...

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that it might be something from Jewish tradition, though - Solomon didn't imprison any demons in the bible, but Jewish tradition has him be all over that shit.

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>>46136703
Marvel Hercules is the hero we deserve.

>>46138481

The Throne is created and governed by Alaya as its Counter Force. Alaya is an aspect of the world, and if you destroy the world, then Alaya goes with it. The Throne of Heroes cannot exist beyond the life of the world.

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>>46138599
It's best not to try when the story is still in progress anyway.

David should give his son a scolding at any rate.

>>46138481

Solomon can see to the Root with the ultimate clarity with his Clairvoyance. True Magic is what happens when a modern mage manages to discover a single path to the Root and not die or go insane from it. Solomon can see and utilize all paths to the Root as he pleases.

>Nasu
>story

Pft

>>4613862
Ars Almadel Salomonis: He Who Hath At Birth Mastered All (誕生の時きたれり、其は全てを修めるものアルス・アルマデル・サロモニス, Tanjō no Toki Kitareri, Sore wa Subete wo Osameru monoArusu Arumaderu Saromonisu?) is the third Noble Phantasm of Solomon, the "I" of the Original Sin. Although it appears at first glance to be a ring of light that encircles the Earth, it is actually an aggregation of around one hundred millions lines of light. Each line of light is said to carry "extreme damage values" that are comparable to an A-rank Noble Phantasm like Excalibur. It is said that it is "unfortunate" that nothing on the surface of the planet surpasses the heat of this Noble Phantasm.

>>46138647
>The Throne is created and governed by Alaya as its Counter Force
Wrong at the outset. The Throne of Heroes is a section of the akashic records in the root, it isn't maintained nor was it created. It has always existed, it is part of the spiral of origin.
The counter force contacts it and puts heroes on it/downloads copies of heroes from it when needed, but when dealing with the origin, the axis of time is fucked. Someone put on the throne has always been on the throne.
>The Throne of Heroes cannot exist beyond the life of the world.
The root has always been and the root shall always be. The destruction of the world will not change that.

>>46138686
Well that was ducked

Meant to quote >>46138623
>>46138563

>>46138599
To be fair, Nasu seems to be treating GO as a kind of funny side project, so he probably doesn't care much about how it first with everything in the past. He seems to be much more focused on the upcoming Musou game.

>>46138656

>All this bullshit is being pulled out, power levels are being ranted about.
>David whacks people in the head with a flung rock and tells them to stop this shit.

Though in Nasuverse crazy powers I'm sure he gets more and more powerful based on who he's fighting. So he'd have to work to take on a normal mage but he could curbstomp Gil into the ground because he's a giant of power.

Or some bullshit like that.

>>46138741
Effectively Davids power would grow in relation to how much more powerful his opposition is to him, yeah.

He also would have music powers

>>46138656
Does David still have his Ark "yeah nah I win" NP?

>>46138766

Now I want to see David having a rock off with the devil.

>>46138741
There are three known NPs: Arc, which just basically kills anyone who doesn't get permission to touch it; Sacrifice, which creates a heavenly flames that burns anyone who opposes god and The Five Stones, which force David to take four warning shots before releasing an unavoidable fifth shot that makes all of the opponents physical possessions (including NPs )David's.

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>>46138741
>>46138766
Sadly he doesn't operate off any concepts like that.
He's a fairly run of the mill Archer. A good shot with a sling and little else. Divine Protection and Charisma make him a fine leader.
He does, at least, have harp powers. He can heal people with musical therapy.

>>46138783
If someone is stupid enough to touch the Ark, sure.
So far only a Berserker has. But it instantly killed Heracles despite having several God Hand revivals in reserve.

>>46138877

Heracles was being controlled against his will again and touched the ark on purpose, or at least that's what I heard

>>46138877

>Sadly he doesn't operate off any concepts like that.
>He's a fairly run of the mill Archer. A good shot with a sling and little else. Divine Protection and Charisma make him a fine leader.

That's kinda shit. Considering how much conceptual stuff Nasuverse runs with, they didn't end up going with one for him.

Sacrifice might not be fun for Solomon. Considering he's working against Substitutionary Atonement and thus against God.

>>46138916
He was berserk. He didn't have a whole lot of will to go around.
But no, it was the player character's party who lured him there so he'd grab it. They were running out of capacity to kill him after taking him out 4 times, Mashu couldn't harm him in any way to begin with.

>>46138702

Pretty sure Alaya still can't put any souls in the Throne if Alaya's gone, m8

Kike here
I can confirm that Shlomo (Solomon for all of you goyim) fucked up everything. His name is written so many more times even after his death just to remind us that he fucked up big time.
Him somehow being able to destroy reality as I see ITT makes perfect sense.

Tamamo best servant by the way

>>46138967
That's pretty irrelevant. The souls that were put there will stay there, and have always been there.

>>46139009

It's not irrelevant if Solomon destroys the world before he kills Merlin in every timeline that he does it

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>>46139089
Merlin seems to still be alive at the moment.
Pretty much 100% certain that Fou is his agent.

>>46139140
What's Merlin's deal anyway? He's not in the Throne and can't be summoned as a Heroic Spirit because he never actually dies right? So how did he avoid getting killed by Solomon like literally everything else? And if Solomon is the most powerful magus ever than what can Merlin do to fight him?

>>46139379
Merlin has the ultimate eyes of clarivoyance, possibly on a level higher than Solomon's. His eyes are perfect and can witness anything, a pseudo omniscience limited only by what he opts to perceive.
Currently, what his game is is quite unclear. Merlin hasn't personally taken to the stage. Fou doesn't communicate, but it does seem to spend extra time staring at people related to the Round Table (particularly Mordred).

>>46139379
>can't be summoned as a Heroic Spirit because he never actually dies
Scathach was also alive in the Land of Shadows until Solomon wiped out everything and thus killed her. Not having died is now a non-factor after everything that has happened.

>So how did he avoid getting killed by Solomon like literally everything else?
We don't know yet.

>And if Solomon is the most powerful magus ever than what can Merlin do to fight him?
He is the second greatest magus to ever live. He won't stand a chance in a 1v1 fight against him but he is probably capable of putting up some resistance.
There is this whole thing about grail ascension that haven't been implemented in the game yet but from the sound of it that's how we will be able to upgrade servants to their Grand class containers. I'm certain that Merlin is the one that's going to be helping us do that and he is also probably the one that will make it so that we can summon Arturia as the Grand Saber to fight against Solomon.

>>46139465
>Merlin has the ultimate eyes of clarivoyance, possibly on a level higher than Solomon's. His eyes are perfect and can witness anything, a pseudo omniscience limited only by what he opts to perceive.
He can't see everything - they're limited to seeing everything in "the present". Which might mean "the Age of Man", I think, although don't quote me on that.

Did Garden of Avalon ever get fully translated?

>>46139379
>He's not in the Throne and can't be summoned as a Heroic Spirit because he never actually dies right?
Note that Grand Order is in a separate timeline from the rest (like most of the spinoffs) and thus what happens in it doesn't matter too much for, say, Fate/Stay Night. Probably.

Also, as >>46139608 said, Scathach wasn't on the Throne on account of being immortal but then now she is since Solomon did his thing.

There's also a not-insignificant chance that Fate/Grand Order is going to end with the entire thing being undone, so who even knows.

Nanaya is chaotic rape

>>46139140
>Only now did he fully realize the purpose of his visit here. What could be seen through the window was not the Britain of reality; however, to Merlin, any view was the same as he would be able to perceive all the events of the entire era through it. The Magus of Flowers went through the drafts and sketches he had made in life thus far and drew from the depths of his robe a hidden familiar – a Cath Palug.

>>46139465
Solomon's eyes are superior anon, Merlin said so himself. While Merlin can only see all of reality in single moment, Solomon can see now, past and all the futures.

Why is /tg/ the best board for Nasu discussions?

>>46143299
Fgog is buried under waifuposting

>>46136120
You can stop it from occuring, but not kill him.
Since he is more like weather than a creature.
How do you kill a rainy day?

>>46143299
Because it's the sort of insane theory crafting bullshit that we eat up.

>>46143843
With a knife, apparently.

>>46139751
Scathach still isn't on the throne if you did her personal quest.

She just said because her Shadow kingdom was destroyed she finally can come out and procede to order Cu Cuchulain to try and kill her so she can finally taste death.

>>46143865
No, Arcueid manifested the Crimson moon from the future and forced TATARI back to being a regular vampire
Then Shiki killed the normal-vampire TATARI.

In his TATARI form he is unkillable.

>>46137224
writing it

>>46136289
Nope, wrong.
Solomon killed the humanity, not Earth.

So since Arcueid is on Gaia side, they had no reason to fight at all.

>>46136289
>(Don't ask about ORT though. Can you even consider that to be alive to begin with?
Yes, but it operates on different rules of life and death to everything on Earth, which is why you can't kill it using Earth rules.

>>46137928
not him, but you just called yourself an autist.

>>46139465

Merlin's eyes are on the same level as Gil's, and we've seen that they are way more limited than they sound.

>>46145664
You missed the whole "even the concept of death is dying" part, didn't you?
Earth's as dead as everything else.
If he was just killing humanity, why was the other side of the world (where there are no humans) and the land of shadows (where there is only one no-longer-human) caught in the purge?

>>46151701
because you missed why human is gone.
Because soloman removed humanity from history.
So anything born from human would be gone too.

>>46136476
Lancer/EXTRA is far more badass looking

>>46134977
>The general ideology of "kill lots of people for the greater good" is honestly still more of a Lawful Evil thing either way.

Except he's a 2/3rds demigod created by alaya specifically to lead humanity to greatness. It is his divine fucking imperative to be the ruler and leader of humanity.

Humanity has a finite amount of greatness; he could easily go on a massacre through the modern world and nothing of *VALUE* would be lost. Yet back in his day, he was hesitant to order the execution of some of his slaves, because they were a valuable, finite resource.

>>46153089

Greatness does not mean goodness.

>>46153089
>created by alaya...to lead humanity to greatness

I thought that he was created by the gods to rule over the humans per their divine dictates, and his rejection of this imperative and rebellion against the gods for their role in Enkidu's death started the decline of the Age of the Gods.

>>46136717
He was interesting and had some nifty tricks, but he's still significantly weaker than a *lot* of other servants out there.

Shit the entire 5th war would gigglefuck him with the exception of *maybe* assassin. Even in 4th war he had a ton of losing matchups (and not simply because of mana issues).

>>46138481
desu anon I think he might be talking out of his arse, I haven't read anything anywhere discussing the fate of the Sorcerers/True Magicians. Also I'm pretty sure magecraft is seperate form Sorcery/True Magic so yeah.

Then again, I can't read rune moons nor have I been following Grand Order as intently as some so I could be wrong. But I would be surprised if the high level OP characters like the Sorcerers, Types and high-ranking DAAs could all be eliminated by this guy.

>>46153296
Solomon basically rewrote history of that world and removed humanity from it.
(Nasu noted that the F/SN world didn't have GO happening so its more likely its a one-universe thing)

So non of the Types would be effected for obvious reason.
But everything with a human origin would be removed.

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>We will never ever get Grand order in the states

Actually I feel kinda bummed by that.

>>46153362
I would really appreciate a source for this. Sorry to be rude, but the amount of baseless "canon" flying around out there for this franchise is unbelievable.

>>46153296
>Also I'm pretty sure magecraft is seperate form Sorcery/True Magic so yeah.
They're not strictly separate. True Magic is just a result of someone gaining the ability to use a specific subset of miracles by creating a path to the Root and taking a bit of knowledge from it without dying. Magecraft is essentially a science that studies and recreates True Magic through mundane means without using the Root. A lot of True Magic lost its position as "True" after becoming accessible through the use of either magecraft or technology, as miracles stop being such once they become explainable through science.

>>46134977
>that marvel strip
I have no idea how to read this, is it left-to-right? Right-to-left? Bottom-to-top? No matter how I try it doesn't make snese.

>>46130775
Wasn't he busy impaling his own christian subjects?
Wasn't he so busy impaling his own christian subjects that the ottomans reached his lands, saw a forest of impaled Christians, and went "Wew, lads. This one's a bit much even for us."?
Didn't they quite reasonably leave him be under the assumption that if they left him alone for a decade, there wouldn't be anyone left, christian or otherwise, to oppose them?

>>46153554
>Implying criminals are christian

>>46153561
Yes, I'm pretty sure that's what Jesus did.
>inb4 implying Jesus was christian

>>46153575
But let's be real

Jesus wasn't christian.

>>46153554
He mostly impaled criminals, corrupt nobility and captured enemy soldiers. It was cruel but it doesn't make Vlad evil.

>>46153598
>Executing criminals, corrupt nobility, and captured enemy soldiers is cruel but doesn't make the one doing it evil
So... what does?

>>46153634
Executing dindus=/=executing good people.

>>46131315
He was also summoned as a Berserker IIRC, by a batshit insane cannibal clown, all of which took a toll on his mental state

>>46153794
Nah, he is Lancer.

>>46153634
A lot of things, but Vlad was just doing his job as a ruler by taking care of the shitstains trying to ruin his country from the inside and making sure the kebabs don't overrun his lands, raping and pillaging is citizens. His choice of actions was brutal, but also incredibly efficient and justified in the long run.

>>46153551
I've actually read the comic it's from, so I can clear it up: It's left to right, and part of the problem is that, Hercules' answer is based on his emotional development the comic represents. (Also, Gilgamesh's (yellow hoodie's) first comment is the answer to a previous sentence.)

Basic Summary: Hercules has become a Hero for Hire, because he's trying (mildly badly) to adapt to the modern world, and its understanding of Heroism. He spent the day fighting an ancient demon because two children gave him Yu Gi Oh cards. (He establishes that the value of payments to him is not monetary, but importance to the giver. The boys give him, basically, their first Blue-Eyes White Dragon, their first gen Foil Charizards. As Hercules answers when asked if they are enough, "Of course, these are your TREASURES." I think it's a neat little scene.)

He also explains to the boys that Gilgamesh is crashing on his couch because he doesn't get the modern world as well.

So the strip is Hercules returning, having spent the issue arguing with the Shadow Demon as he kicked its ass that they have to adapt, that the Demon can't just use the same tricks it's been using for the last Five Thousand Years, eventually defeating it using a tazer.

So he comes home to his roommate, asks him what he wants, his roommate suggests ordering online, because that's still a cool idea to him. Hercules concurs that there's cool shit in the world, and then starts his order.

I read the whole comic while working at my friend's card shop during the Christmas Rush, and I give it a solid 8 out of 10. It gives a solid demi-human grounding for the character, explaining his goals, philosophy, and demeanor, and it has Hercules fighting a Sumerian Shadow Demon.

Tl;dr: It's Hercules and Gilgamesh deciding to get Ramen delivered to their apartment.

>>46153454
Most infor are from fate/grand order.
You can use a cellphone and download it from play store anyway if you use the link from the official site.
I gave all my spare accounts away so can't help from there.

About why the Tsukihime and other works' world grand order didn't happen is on Nasu's personal diary site on typemoon.
Gotta be able to read japanese for those things.

>>46153971
The incredible herc has been a rock solid run since it was first being printed. I definitely recommend reading more if you liked it.

>>46153971

That is...really damn cool.

>>46153971

Now I really want to see Marvel Herc debating Type Moon Gil about modern humanity.

>>46153362
It still affects all the timelines, this was covered in the very prologue when they discussed how going to the past shouldn't be able to change anything because it would just create a division of kaleidoscopes where the past is unchanged and the past is changed, your present doesn't receive any alteration because you're not going to move to the new kaleidoscope created by your actions.
The singularities are outside the kaleidoscope. Resolving them is a universal thing. They're a black, incalculable spot that don't follow the rules. There's no alternate kaleidoscope where they failed to resolve a singularity. Parallel worlds do not enter into the equation of Solomon's plan.

>>46154237
yes so its limited to a single world, hence what I said.

>>46154267
In a way that affects the entirety of the past and future of mankind.. and therefore every world with mankind in it.

>>46154276
except it didn't according to what Nasu wrote about how Grand order works.

>>46154323
I'd like to request a citation for that because honestly I must have missed that declaration. He's said how Stay Night and Zero and Strange Fake and El-Melloi Case Files are in the same or different worlds, but I've not seen a commentary on Grand Order.

>>46154349
The part of why it didn't happen is in his diary for 2015/8/14

And the part which talk about what made grand order not-happen is called 2015年の時計塔 and was posted on 2014/07/08
which was a short story for Witch on the Holy Night.

>>46135110
She's a mass murdering psycho.

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>>46130336
The smug long-haired dude here defiles corpses and was both knowingly and willfully complicit in a scheme that would have extuinguished human life on Earth and perhaps destroyed the entire world in a biblical apocalypse. He's chaotic good.

>>46154871
*She's a cute mass murdering psycho

>>46134995
>notes
Yes YES YES. Slash Emperor here we come nigga. Let's do this

>>46153944
You know, most theft would involve food. People were hungry. If they didn't steal food they'd be stealing something valuable that could be used to buy food. This was also important in case they ever needed to pack up and leave should their homes ever be threatened with being pillaged by Ottomans or mercenaries or even their own defending soldiers. They had no intent of ruining the domain where they libed, they were just trying to stay afloat. And for some reason you still make them out to be the bad guys when there were literally people who would impale them for the crime of trying to not go hungry.

>>46155015
can someone in the notes world become a servant i wonder...

>>46155065
If Ado Em becomes a Servant, he'd personally be the reason Saber is considered so good, and also kill any Mage beyond maybe Kotomine, Aoko Touko who summoned him.

>>46155065
Well, it really depends on whether or not Liners are human. Also, whether or not they can still become Heroic Spirits when the World went the way of the dodo.

Archer GODO when, Nasu?

>>46155188
Ado Edem isn't too impressive when fighting "normal" people. It's just that his power keeps scaling to keep up with larger threats. And then scales a bit more for emphasis. And then chops a ten-kilometer giant in half.

Then again, the Land of Steel is kind of crazy anyway. Those A-Rays and their nuclear punches, man.

>>46155215
Nonhumans can be heroes, see Mephistopheles, Frankenstein's Monster, Bucephalus, and Red Hare.

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>>46155248
dont forget tamamo.

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>>46155248
Noob guy here
What are the prerequisites for a servant to be summonable? Does it have to be something that really existed in the past or famous enough fictional figures get to pass too?

>>46155215
Slash Emp is literally [Enough to kill you]+1. That's one bullshit NP.

>>46155309

Depends on the system used for the summoning.

>>46138735
I still want to see a F/SN grand strategy game in the vein of Sengoku Rance. Nasu said himself that grand strategy would be one of the best adaptions for a videogame.

>>46155309
These days basically everything gets a pass.

>>46155309
So far they've always used the excuse for when a fictional figure gets summoned, that someone 'who really existed' that matches the story was in the past somewhen.
So as far as the setting is concerned, Victor Frankenstein was an actual magus who created a new form of life, not just an invention of Mary Shelley.

The general consensus is that so long as it's a fictional story that's "realistic enough", this excuse will fly. So far we have Frankenstein's Monster, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, the Phantom of the Opera, and the Count of Monte Cristo as novel characters who became legends.

>>46154196

>These mongrels are the runoff of the Age of Heroes, they have nothing of true worth!
>I dunno, I can order ramen from across the city with my phone.
>In my days I could have had the finest food and drink, of which all the creations of this age are but ash in comparison!
>Yeah but they can have people separated by half a world exchange ideas and hopes.

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>>46155330
>I still want to see a F/SN grand strategy game in the vein of Sengoku Rance.
Hundred Years War, starring JANNU.

>>46155309
Basically, they must have performed acts in life that earned them a certain level of notoriety. They must also be of certain levels of skill and strength to actually qualify for certain classes.

Lu Bu for example, he was known greatly for his archery, his horse, his legendary spear, being a backstabbing motherfucker, and a powerful warrior overall. Because of this, he can qualify for any of the seven standard classes except Caster (he possessed no magic power) or Saber (he was ultimately a spearman).

On the opposite end of the power scale you have Apocrypha's Assassin of Black. Despite only taking a few lives in her lifetime, all helpless women, Jack the Ripper is one of the most famous historical enigmas of recent history, and that allows her to qualify as Assassin.

Let's take Hitler for example. He was definitely notorious and will be known for centuries to come, but he was not a combatant, he didn't engage in personal kills, and I don't think he even had much combat experience in the great war. He wouldn't qualify as a servant due to him lacking the required skills.

>>46155309
It depends on who or what the writer wants to be a servant and how they can bullshit their way to justifying their decision. There are servants who are literally just manifestations of thoughts and inanimate objects. Anything gets a pass as long as the writer wants it and can get it past the nigh all-allowing editors of the company. There are some prerequisites in lore, but there are so many exceptions to the rules that you may as well ignore the rules completely.

Basically: anything goes and any rules are only arbitrarily adhered to.

>>46155424
Shakespeare and Anderson tho

>>46155475
Shakespeare is a Caster, which lets him pull off all kinds of bullshit without being able to lift a finger.

>>46153420
Isn't it a sony cashcow? You'd think considering how desperate they seem these days they'd go for that too.

>>46155424
It is supremely ironic that if Hitler had been a more successful painter and just DRAWN the Jews being exterminated, he would have probably qualified as an HS, unlike as he does not as the Leader/Architect of the Third Reich

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>>46155450
>There are servants who are literally just manifestations of thoughts and inanimate objects
There's really just one, and she's the most aberrant servant we have so far.
And that's including the concept of disease manifesting as a Rider. Nursery Rhyme makes no sense at all, she's the result of collective childrens' delusion.

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>>46155309
WELL I'LL TELL YOU ONE THING

YOU KNOW WHO DOESN'T QUALIFY?

SIMO HAYA.

BECAUSE GUNS ARE FOR LOSERS

garunteedreplies.jpg

>>46155526
You can use a gun, but your legend can't be "man who was great at gun".

>>46155354
Don't forget Moby Dick is also a completely real Divine Beast.

Which is funny in many ways, considering it would make him a servant of YHWH, and imply he's just another god that had managed to win the godbowl in modern times.

>>46155309
Also, it doesn't have to be from the past. Niggas can be from the future too. How that works when Mystery is supposedly all out, I have no idea.

>>46155424

I wonder if Don Bradman could make it as a servant. The best cricketer ever and a strong contender for most impressive sportsman in the entirety of human history. (Managed a 99.94 batting average when the second place person in all of history is 60.) and fought in WWII. He was so good that he prompted an entirely new method of playing the game to be invented just to oppose him.

That method was 'Try to kill Don Bradman so he can't bat for the Australians'. Despite it being tailored to him, he was never beaten by it and only missed a single ball in his entire career. The last ball of his career when he was retiring. That's the sort of record that would get someone immortalized in myth a few centuries ago.

I mean, at this point we've had Shakespeare as a servant and he did very little killing.

>>46155424
>Let's take Hitler for example. He was definitely notorious and will be known for centuries to come, but he was not a combatant, he didn't engage in personal kills, and I don't think he even had much combat experience in the great war.
Pretty much all of that applies just as well if not even better to servants such as Marie Antoinette, Avicebron, and Charles Babbage.

>>46155534
Does that mean Ahab is a lancer?

Fucking dibs.

>>46155543
>Marie Antoinette
Why are the Nips so obsessed with her?

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>>46155543
Reminder that Charles Babbage is a fucking mech.

>>46155540

EX Rank protection from ranged attacks.

>>46155543
>Marie Antoinette,
I'm pretty sure everyone in the fanbase agrees Antoinette did not deserve to be a servant. At this point any historical women can get in just for the otakubux.
But in any case she was given a giant crystal pony that tramples like a behemoth so whatever.
>Avicebron, and Charles Babbage.
Avicebron is a magus and Charles Babbage was apparently so obsessed/deluded he achieved a reality marble.

>>46155550

Because Japan has a boner for France on par with America's boner for Japan.

>>46155540
I personally wonder if ned kelly (australian bushmen) could become a servant, guy is very well known in australia

>>46155475
Mozart was a magus, which is pretty well founded on his freemason background.

Shakespeare is strongly implied to have been a magus, though not a very special one. His NP only became decent with the fame boost.

Andersen is explicitly not a magus, and only works in the moon cell. But Grand Order threw that out of the window, like many things. Lots of energy attacks from servants like Mata Hari can be considered noncanon, though, since they are result of animators being on a deadline.

>>46155550
I dunno. In Fate she's a 2pure romanticized idol who never did anything wrong. Never mind that historically she was a serial adulteress who tried to incite a war between empires for the purpose of propping up one of the most oppressively stratified monarchic systems on the European continent at the time.

>>46155589

I think he could. Rider (He was a horseman), Archer or Berserker would all fit him very well. Berserker Ned would be kinda terrifying. No one expects a berskerker to come at you one handing a rifle.

I think part of it is the Mythology built around someone and not just a single dramatic moment.

His last stand is important and iconic but he's become almost the incarnation of righteous opposition to oppression here (Regardless of if you actually think he was innocent or not he's become a symbol). His letters to parliament and the multiple major parts of his story all together end up with someone who'd work for it (His polite treatment of hostages, the initial likely framing by corrupt police and THEN the final stand).

That's a whole heap of aspects to draw on, not just one deed.

>>46155526
He should be the Grand Archer.

>>46155568
>I'm pretty sure everyone in the fanbase agrees Antoinette did not deserve to be a servant.
Doesn't change the fact that she is one and that as such she sets a precedent that can be accounted for in discussions of the franchise.

>>46155546
Well, while the story of the book might be partially inspired by real events of some shit, Moby Dick kind of writes himself.

Sailors are terribly superstitious people. Lots of such legends among them. Actually, you could definitely find real living sailors today who not only believe Moby Dick to have been real, but will also tell you he's still around and kicking.

>>46155627
Imagine the shitstorm

>>46155628
If they can be represented as a cute girl sure.

>>46155622
what would his noble phantasms be?

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Fuck bitches, design cool Servants
Ok this one is already official fuck you it's hard to find unclaimed ones

Spirit: Leonidas I
Master: Protagonist
Alignment: Lawful Neutral
Strength: B Mana: C
Endurance: A Luck: C
Agility: D N. Phantasm: B
Class skills:
Magic Resistance C
Personal skills:
Dignity of the Rearguards A
Battle Continuation A
Noble Phantasms:
Thermopylae Enomotia Anti-Army B

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>>46155646
represented as a cute girl you say

>>46155658
he is already a servant http://fategrandorder.wikia.com/wiki/Leonidas

>>46155584
That would explain their love for Jeanne, but why Marie Antoinette? Why not any one of the actually relevant figures in French history? Hell, Louis XIV can pull that "muh fabulous monarchy" stuff while actually doing something worth mentioning. They can even make him a pretty girl like they did with Arthur.

>>46155677
Yes I know, I copy pasted his official stats


there's so many of the damn ones already taken by the nips and ruined

>>46155683
You know, making Marie Antoinettes husband secretly a woman would explain A LOT

Like, make history make MUCH MORE SENSE.

File: Rose.Of.Versailles.E1.Oscar!.The.Destiny.Of.The.Rose.x264.ac3.10bit.480p.Ra-Calium.mkv_snapshot_19.17_[2015.11.19_18.33.47].jpg (35KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

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>>46155683
Because the entire sum of knowledge the Japanese have of France actually comes from Lady Oscar.

I mean, Lady Oscar is basically a heavily paraphrased biography of Chevalier D'Eon, but it still surprises you that Chevalied D'Eon in Grand Order is literally Oscar.

>>46155649
The armour, and probably another thing. Possibly two more if he's Rider.

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>>46155714
Still mad they changed the icon on her third skill. This one was so much better.

>>46155424
>On the opposite end of the power scale you have Apocrypha's Assassin of Black. Despite only taking a few lives in her lifetime, all helpless women, Jack the Ripper is one of the most famous historical enigmas of recent history, and that allows her to qualify as Assassin.

Actually, the problem with Jack the Ripper is that nobody knows who Jack really was. Which is why every Jack summoning is different and "fucking weird".

I think the whole servant class system is kinda shoddy. The original seven classes were defined by what kind of means that used to beat people over the head with, but that's obviously been restrictive as the franchise has grown and the definitions of the classes have been stretched and diluted to accommodate the growing number of characters who would not fit the strict definitions of the classes. Then you got irregular classes such as Avenger and Ruler who are less defined by how they beat people up and more by what sort of narrative role they would conform to in a story.

It all makes me think that the class definitions would have worked better if they were foremost about what sort of character archetype a character would conform or at least near greatest resemblance to in a story. I think that would also for better with Nasu's heavy emphasis on how legends shape the characters but also how the characters conflict with the legends about them. Thematically it seems like it would work better while at the same time averting some problems that the current system seems to have.

>>46155649

I'd go with

Black Iron Armour (The armour he wore in his last stand). Makes him a lot slower and less mobile but makes him near indestructible.

A smart servant could work around it but it gives him a lot more room to brawl. Is permanently in effect and heightened if summoned as Berserker.

Bane of Injustice: His parameters rise against those with claims of authority (Kings/Police etc) and rise further against those who are seeking to impose them for personal gain. This ability is inactive if summoned as Berserker.

Horseman Thief: He gains possession of any mount or vehicle is can lay his hands on, as well as the talents to use it. In his hands, any vehicle or mount is raised to the status of a noble phantasm if it was not already.

Went for his iconic armour, his letters to parliament about the injustice against the common man in Australia and his initial trial for being a horse thief.

>>46155796
Ruler is a construct of the Grail system as a whole, though. It's not supposed to be accessible under normal situations, and certainly not to a Master.

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>>46155658

Caster Väinämöinen

Strength: D
Endurance: C
Agility: E
Mana: A+++
Luck: Rank-upped to A (Naturally B)
Noble Phantasm: A

Skills:
Item Creation: D (Specializes in woodwork and natural charms, but not famed for it.)
Territory Creation: A (Creation of a Temple is possible.)

God Divine Core: EX (Väinämöinen is as much an earth spirit as he is a hero, his mother was the sky and his father was the sea, but he was of mankind as well. He is in some traditions connected to Odin of norse myth.)
Elemental: D (Väinämöinen is an earth-aligned magus of formidable power. However, he can use Air and Water elements to a limited degree, owing to his heritage.)
High-Speed Divine Language: A+ (A member of the gods who wove magic with his voice. Grand Spells are performable at Single-Action speeds)

Noble Phantasms:
Voice of Väinämöinen
Rank A
Anti-Unit, Anti-Army
The voice of Väinämöinen is a powerful enchantment all its own, and those who hear it risk falling under his sway. In addition to enabling High-Speed Divine Language of rank A+, Väinämöinen's words may be used as both a means to bend the environment to his will, and a mental attack all its own.
Vulnerable to silencing effects. He must shout or sing to use this Noble Phantasm effectively.

The Sampo
Rank ?
Anti-?
The Sampo. An item of unidentified shape, of unidentified function, but it is something Väinämöinen certainly possesses...
What it looks like and why it is important is a riddle that he refuses to answer.
Some have speculated it may be a progenitor to the Holy Grail.
What is known is that it grants Luck rank-up to the holder, at the very least.


I wanted the real "old man wizard" as a hero, dammit.

>>46155799

Sounds like Berseker Ned is actually pretty close to Lancelot, except he's tied to mounts rather than weapons. Which is a much heavier limitation as he can't get a minigun or beat people with a noble phantasm pole.

>>46155838

Well, he could always appropriate a tank or something.

>>46155688
>You know, making Marie Antoinettes husband secretly a woman would explain A LOT
>Like, make history make MUCH MORE SENSE.
U wot m8?

>>46155348
>>46155450
Cool, Optimus Prime Servant when?

>>46155683
I think there were some kind of explanations: firstly, she is a person whose death marked the end of the era, and secondly, she is a representation of the whole concept of queenship. So, when you think of a queen, the mental image in your head is most consistent with Marie Antoinette.

>>46155859
Once Hasbro forks over the dough for a Grand Order collab.

>>46155658
Assassin Heracles

Alignment: Chaotic Good/Neutral
Strength: A+
Endurance: B
Agility: A
Mana: A
Luck: B
Nobel Phantasm: A+

Class skills:
Presence Concealment A+

Personal skills:
Battle Continuation A
Bravery A
Divinity A
Eye of the Mind (False) B

Noble Phantasms:
God Hand: B
Nine Lives(empty-handed): A+


With the exception of whoever that's the Grand Assassin, I don't think you can find anyone else in this class that would even compare to him.

>>46155859
doesn't it have to be before a certain date? or is that assumption?

>>46155853

Oh yeah but so could Lancelot as it's a Weapon.

On the other hand: Ned would look much cooler on a motorcycle unless you tried putting blades on it.

>>46155868
>Nine Lives(empty-handed)
Oh at least let him use a Dagger version or something if he's gonna be Assassin.
Pankration should be reserved for Avenger Heracles.

>>46155876
There is no hard and fast rule about it, but "modern era" humans have trouble becoming heroes to begin with. People no longer believe tales about a dude wrestling a lion or killing 1000 men in one fight, and they don't turn up in the records.

>>46155658
>it's hard to find unclaimed ones
No it isn't. Thousands of years of history and fiction from the entire world to choose from, and still more than that since there is a precedent for concepts and lifeless objects to be summoned, and when less than even 200 hundred of those are "claimed" you can't really complain about it being difficult to find unclaimed ones unless you know nearly nothing about history or fiction and you have no easy means to learn more.

>>46155913
But heroes from the future can be summoned apparently
Does that mean I could summon a legendary sentient swarm of nanites from the year 3000 known for paperclip maximizing a whole planet 0.47 seconds faster than the norm?

>>46155941

The only future hero we know of is EMIYA, and he only became a Heroic Spirit because he made bargain with the world, not because he actually qualified normally.

>>46155941
it has to do something REAL FUCKING HEROIC
like beating alone a army alone and having a fucking awesome last stand, to put a exmple

>>46155984
That half second of advantage was fundamental for the Machine Hegemony of Man to win the galactic war against the Turbozerg, saving quadrillions of neohuman lives in the system

>>46156046
you get a seat in the throne!

>>46156074
Arguable. We don't know how impressive this really is. Besides the gun argument is mostly an argument about letting technology do the work. There's a difference between lifting 10 tons with your arms, and lifting 10 tons with a pulley system and some tough wires.

one question
can a multiple identity be a hero?
like a the robin hood thing

'cuze i love to see the Unknown Soldier

>>46156104
>Besides the gun argument is mostly an argument about letting technology do the work
Nasu explicitly said it's fine for the technology itself to become the hero, so long as it has a soul.
Then the question is how to give the robot a soul? Homunculi (Mephistopheles) and artificial life forms (Frankenstein's Monster) have souls.

>>46156141
>nasu frankenstein monster
>monster
victor frankenstein had shit taste

>>46155663
>Is embarrassed about showing skin
>Summoned in skimpy outfit
Poor Jack can't get a break.

>>46156161
Maybe he was just comically incompetent
>Try to build the perfect man
>Makes a waifu instead
Like Toriyama's Arale

>>46156141
Tsukomogami

>>46155941
You could. It's really unlikely though. Most heroes are summoned with a catalyst to get the servant you want, Rin's crystal pendant being the catalyst for Archer. Plus, the older the hero, the more of a power up they get, so there is incentive for past heroes.
Although, this might mean future heroes suffer a nerf when they get summoned to the present

>>46156141
Dunno if it counts, but in Fate/Apocrypha Caster of Black demonstrated that it's possible to graft severed pieces of a person's soul onto his soulless golems automatons. Homunculi all seem to have souls, so I figure any halfway decent alchemist in the Nasuverse can artificially create souls.

>>46156113
Fate/EXTRA's version of Emiya is summoned as "the nameless hero", pretty much.

You try to summon someone that doesn't technically exist and the system will pull through someone who kind of looks like that guy if you squint a bit - Fake Assassin, for instance.
Or you can have the Fate/Apocrypha Jack the Ripper thing where she's an amalgamation of a ton of different whore-murdering orphans or whatever it was her schtick was.

>>46155941
The big problem, apparently, is that you need to stick out to become a Heroic Spirit and that's becoming harder and harder.

I think the example was that everyone can help save the world on a daily basis by recycling, and thus "saving the world" has become less impressive overall.

Also, the bit where guns are the great equalizer and let the schmucks be just as impressive as the prodigies. Simo Häyha might still stick out, but you don't get modern-day King Arthurs. Also, a large percentage of famous people these days are kind of useless in combat and thus not fitting for summoning as a Servant, meaning that we'll never see them unless they sell otakubux.

The real reason for them mostly limiting themselves to heroes from the 19th century at the latest, though, is probably because of copyright issues and the whole thing where a lot of those people are either still alive or have immediate relatives who might object to their father's image being used for a QT Finnish sniper girl.

Not that it stopped Strike Witches, but hey.


Speaking of aircraft pilots, there's no way in hell that the Red Baron won't be considered for a Servant at some point in time. Seriously, I'm having a hard time thinking of a more (in)famous one.

>>46156563
isnt Neil armstrong implied to be a servant?

>>46156563
I don't think the problem lies with people objecting with their father being represented as a QT Finnish Sniper Girl, or at least not seemingly.

There is (at least) one manga about Simo Häyhä, who of course is a woman, but it is being published here in Finland, and there hasn't been any major uproars so far about it, at least.

>>46156870
The first goddamn man to walk on the goddamn moon, yeah. He went where no man had ever gone before.

Poor Buzz Aldrin.

>>46156870
In Extra, yeah.

>>46155796
I had a similar idea about that once for a game. Fiddled around with it a little before dropping the project. It looked to be pretty much a Nasuverse ripoff, I'll admit. I was thinking of using the major arcana to define the classes, but I couldn't make it work very well with any game system mechanics I was familiar with.

>>46130414
OP is probably a filthy muslim.

Heroic Spirits drawn from American mythology.

Paul Bunyan and John Henry definitely count, and benefit from being based on real people. Berserker John Henry vs. Caster Charles Babbage, grudge match of the century.

Pecos Bill is famous enough, but is also known to be completely fictitious, which probably disqualifies him. Same for Captain Stormalong.

Johnny Appleseed would be useless in a Grail War.

Ben Franklin as Caster. Shit Mana, shit Territory Creation, absolutely bonkers Item Creation.

>>46158623
Demon King of Lightning, Thomas Edison is practically canon.

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>>46155887
>implying

>>46155602
Shakespeare is just a regular people hence his incredible shitty states and non-existent combat ability.

You are a servant as long as you are popular and people believe about you.

>>46155796
At this time we know the class system is just a restriction to reduce a servant's capacity.

Cu Cuchulain can never bring everything he have into the grail war because of this.

>>46159487
>At this time we know the class system is just a restriction to reduce a servant's capacity.
I don't think that's what he's talking about.

>>46153554
The ottomans saw thirty thousand impaled ottoman prisoners of war and collectively shat their pants. Any Christians he impaled probably broke the law.

>>46159545
Maybe I should explain clearly.

Servant Class system had no actual point to begin with , and many hero qualifies for multiple spot.
its just a frame work that helps to get the grail war going.
It was never intended to be used restrictively.

>>46155041
People must have stopped being hungry fairly sharpish then because the crime rate was incredibly low a few years with him in charge.

>>46159643
I think you're talking past each other. One guy is discussing game mechanics and the other guy is discussing storytelling.

>>46160082
There is no game mechanics about servant system to begin with since it was an AVG.
I was talking about storytelling, even in SN there's said other classes other than the 7 exist, then you get avenger in HA.

>>46155641
>Might be partially inspired by real events.

Yes, because the adventures of Mocha Dick, the albino whale that was killed in 1838, having sunk several smaller boats that came after him since his first appearance in 1810, and was rumored to have fought as many as 100 different crews in that time, certainly only partially inspired the tale of a vicious white whale in a book completed 13 years after his death that even used 60% of his NAME.

>>46162132
Daium, mother nature is kickass. Can't help but be impressed

>>46158623
It's likely a lot of the great western heroes, Jim Bowie, Davy Crocket, Dan Boone, maybe Sam Houston.

Probably a lot of the Last-Stand Indian chiefs.

Definitely Teddy Roosevelt, Probably Grant, possibly Lincoln, possibly General Lee.

Almost certainly Oppenheimer.

>>46159576
Or were Germanic Merchants trying to cheat his people.