Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

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Why aren't gnomes taken seriously?

please post more old artwork of orcs, from the warcraft 1 and 2 eras

>>46119945
because that is a dwarf

>>46119870

So guys, I have been thinking of a game where it is set in an AU where the roles of Azeroth and Draenor are reversed.

So you have BL corrupting humans, dwarves etc. Medivh gets into contact with Gul'dan to open the gate. etc.

I have been trying to fluff out the setting. There are many that can be reversed. For example, Kel'thuzad becomes the LK while Ner'Zhul becomes his servant etc.

What do you think? Would like to help me fluff it up?

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>>46119958

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>>46120027
I miss Orgrim's Hammer Bayonettes.

As if the Doomhammer WASN'T deadly enough.

>>46119993
Well I'll say this, the Scourge would probably be a lot more lively, for lack of a better word. Ner'zhul was a serious bastard, while Big Lich KT was a sarcastic asshole 100% of the time. I expect he would want his minions to be just as quick with the banter as he is.

>>46120027
thanks
that's the stuff

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>>46119945
Firstly, that's a cute version of a female dwarf slayer from Warhammer, not a gnome.

Addressing your question- Because they're short and not written seriously, with the exception of a few grim moments.

That, and gnomes' defining traits are optimism, curiosity, and ingenuity, which 9 times out of 10 makes for the 'wacky tinker' archetype- or wacky something, anyway. You've got to take one or more of those traits away to give them a better shot at being more serious.

Even when they ARE serious/in serious situations, they're still pretty much a parody of themselves because it's like... putting little outfits on pets. It's like you're trying to make them into something they're not, which is amusing in and of itself.

Sure, a gnome warrior MIGHT be like a feral badger made of hate and a two-inch-thick, hydraulic-powered metal suit, but he/she is still short, and still treated as a joke. Even when they're cutting through confused and frightened enemies, it's funny in the same way Rocket Raccoon is funny. Like, "haha, you got your ass kicked by a runt!"

Also because they're short.

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So /tg/, what other races besides elves do you think would make lore-friendly Demon huntards?

Personally, I think Draenei and Orcs would fit the bill nicely. Especially with RP.

I kinda fear some Tauren Paladin level asspull to justify Human DH's because of the recent sheer numbers of them thanks to OP racials.

>>46120148
One of the reasons elves are the only race for DHs is their susceptibility to magic. They're both very sensitive to magic and very good with it (on average) because they were mutated into what they are by pure magic.

That said, I think draenei would be capable (even though their society would absolutely loathe them for it), and... maybe trolls, but trolls have enough classes as it is. Orcs are way iffier.

>>46120274
I feel like the draenei DH loathing probably wouldn't be that much worse off than what the NE feel about their own DH. I mean just look at Illidan. He's Malfurion's brother and he got locked up in an underground dungeon for 10,000 years.

>>46120094

So if we have KT Lich king, who would take Arthas' place?

Thrall?

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You know what's strange? There's no dungeon in WoW's Stonetalon Peaks revisiting the cave from WC3. It had some sort of Nightelf ruin and a bunch of different creatures had moved into it.

>>46120148
>>46120274
Orcs fit because Fel Orcs are part of the Illidari. (And honestly they should have Fel Orcs in the DH class hall, not Ashtongue Broken)

>>46119945
Because they look silly with their ginormous heads, small bodies and brightly-cloured hair, are mainly played for the comedy value (tiny pink haired gnome girl being the party tank, and so on) and their main stich is having zany personalities (personality, really, since 90% of gnome NPCs tend to be the same "whacky professor" archetype), goofy names and anachronistic "clockwork+lasers" technology.

I wouldn't mind them being played a bit less for comedy, with focus instead on them being a race of inquisitive scientists who value knowledge and invention above all else, which may cause conflict due to their desire to learn more overriding considerations for ethics or safety (ie. "we were so focused with whether or not we could do it, that we never thought about whether or not we should do it" as one of the physicist working on the Manhattan Project said). Tone down their tech level a little (more clock/dieselpunk, less lasers) and make their stuff look a bit less cartoonish (more functional-looking machines, less bright colours and unnecessary gears) while you're at it.

>>46120148
according to Blizzard, elves are the only race that are good enough mages and physically agile and strong enough to be good demon hunters, even blood elves are barely good enough

>>46120412
I'd actually want to say Grom Hellscream, though depending on his age, Garrosh might fit for Arthas too.

Thrall's role really wouldn't change much, honestly. Basically he and Jaina Proudmoore would probably swap places.

>>46119945
Because the first mentions of gnomes are in guide books briefly mentioning them as the engineers of Alliance's machinery and the next one was in the cancelled game WC Adventures:Lord of Clans where you see them inside a rather goblin-esque bunker testing around with flying pigs (with jetpacks), brain-computers that can answer any question and rocket powered robot chickens as a means for quick communication. Then aside from a few war machines they've done almost everything else is a joke at best. Aside from that i actually like gnomes for the fact that beneath those layers of randumb jokes and lunatic ideas are a force to fear and respect for those very reasons. Because let's be honest: without the machines the gnomes had made for Alliance (gunships, steamtanks, gyrocopters and assorted orbital reentry devices) Horde would steam roll them with shear strength alone before N-elves joined the ranks.

>>46120563

So if I have AU Garrosh as equivalent to MU Arthas, I can have AU Arthas be a stand in for ... Thrall I guess?

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>>46120705
It's true. If the Alliance depended on dwarves for technology, it would just be... varying sizes of hammers and things with which to launch them. Maybe big hammers on wheels.

Also, I'm excited for gnome hunters in Legion.
Mine was drawn in a drawthread a while ago, though I have yet to finish coloring it.

I also wasn't super specific with the gun, just that it was powered by magic. Kudos to Pilgrim again.

Where was I going with this? Oh, right. Go gnomes.

>>46120148
The "elves can only be DH thing" is a crock. The only reason they did it for now is because metamorphosis models.

Case and point, DK. Prior to WotlK, only two races made sense for DK: Human and Forsaken. Blizzard expanded on them and we got new lore.

It would not at all have been a stretch to toss something in like "Illidan scoured all the races coming through the dark portal for those showing promise and talent, and trained them in secret". Especially since Illidan is pretty much the least racist elf ever (aside from the Windrunner sisters and their insatiable craving for human dick)

>>46120709
No, if Jaina and Thrall swap places, then Arthas is AU Grom.

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>>46120809
>>46120705
Yeah, even Gnome technology is a joke.

Gnome tech is mostly based around doing stuff to prove that it cane be done, no matter how stupid. About the only useful thing they've ever made is a sub.

On the other hand, Goblins are taken a bit more seriouslly since the stuff they make is very practical, albeit dangerous. They are in a technological middle ground between gnome and dwarf and it works.

>>46121073
>only two races made sense for DK: Human and Forsaken.
Before Scourge Death Knights, they were Gul'dan's Orcish Warlocks granted even more power.

>>46121073
How many human, dwarf, tauren, troll, gnome, non Fel-Orc orcs or forsaken Illidari inhabited Outland? They explained it was (if i remember correctly) that the night elf Demon hunters are Illidans old batch while the Blood Elf ones are take fresh from the ranks of Kael'Thas' boys and girls.

>>46121147
Old Horde Death Knights aren't really at all similar to Scourge Death Knights, though.

I mean, Scourge DKs are just Knights brough back from the dead with unholy powers. Old Horde Death Knights are the ghostly spirits of Shadownoom warlocks jammed into the dead bodies of human knights, and they don't really have any martial prowess. Their more like Scourge Liches, and in fact, since a lot of Scourge Liches are the souls of orc Warlocks in Ner'zul's service, some of them might even be the same people.

>>46121147
True, but the 1st gen DK as you said were just warlocks.

2nd gen, or, scourge DK were exclusively human (and I guess dwarves) and forsaken. 3rd gen, or wow DK, are pretty much total copies of the 2nd gen: being raised by the LK to serve his purposes. The difference is for that 3rd gen we were given new lore.

These new DH, even if they are very similar to the TBC ones, are still a bit different as they are the super elite we didnt see in TBC. There is plenty of room to implant some new information in there. Hell, blizz already said that more races in the future for DH is likely.

>>46121208
>"Many were the races that came through the portal to outland to face the demons. From those ranks Illidan saw much promise and approached the mightiest of the demon slayers and offered to teach them how to make the demons truly fear them. These soldiers were trained in secret, away from the prying eyes the more jealous elven students that came to outland during the 3rd war, many didnt survive the trials, but those who did joined the Illdari as the elite of the demon hunters"

There, done.

>>46121134
nothing beats TC130 mental dislocator

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>>46121134
Goblin tech is not taken seriously at all. It is famously volatile and unstable, practically to a point of pride. At least gnome tech doesn't come with a 50% guarantee of blowing up in your face. To use goblin tech is to willingly court suicide.

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>>46121134
>Gnome tech is mostly based around doing stuff to prove that it cane be done, no matter how stupid.
Have you not seen Kezan? Or goblins, in general? It's the exact same thing, but instead of "FOR SCIENCE" it's "FOR MONEY", and then it turns out that their ray-gun that defeathers chickens isn't a huge success because it has a 80% failure rate, resulting in it instead making the chicken into an angry raptor.

>Goblins are taken a bit more seriouslly since the stuff they make is very practical, albeit dangerous.

... Okay, just because people find them more sexy on average does not mean that they're taken more seriously. Goblins and gnomes are jokes in equal measure, but goblins are also more liable to stab you for pocket change they're treated as more of a threat. If gnomes were vicious little assholes, they'd be seen in a similar light to goblins, but without the seemingly endless greed.

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>>46121356
Gnomish teleporters just have a chance to have you show up 1000 feet up in the air.

>>46121374
I think it's equally cruel to freeze a bloke and then shatter them with a silly looking chicken missile as to stab them with explosive shivs

>>46121374
>and then it turns out that their ray-gun that defeathers chickens isn't a huge success because it has a 80% failure rate, resulting in it instead making the chicken into an angry raptor.
you mean their chicken-raptorifying gun has a 20% failure rate of it just defeathering the chicken

you have to think outside the box, friend

>>46121129

So the fluff so far, some how, the BL corrupts the humans, and others in Azeroth. They do so by making them think that what they are listening to is the light (similar to how BL gave MU orc shamans visions).

So let's say they genocide the N. Elves. Medivh and Gul'dan open the portal. Corrupted Alliance pours through. Corrupted Alliance is made up of humans, dwarves, high elves etc.

What can we add to the Draenish horde?

I am inclined to do Orcs, Arakkoa and maybe Goren. Eventually the dranei show up, too.

>>46121374
for G&G technology there is no "80% chance for failure" as both races have different standards. For gnomes there is a 49% chance for the teleporter to drop you in the exact place you wanted, 40% chance that it drops you 1000ft in the air above the intended target, 9% it turns you into a gorilla and 1% chance of failure (read: the machine does nothing). Same with goblins, except they count the thing exploding as success too.

>>46121527
Ogres, man.

Also, the Alliance would have to ally with one of the local races the way the Horde allied with the Trolls.

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>>46121428
The point being that they're both silly, and acting as if goblins are treated seriously is pretty much ridiculous.

That said, I like them both for different reasons. Gnomes for their optimistic spirit and cheerful attitude. I like goblin women for their hips. Goblin men annoy and disgust me.

>>46121527
Well if you want to mirror it closely, then at first the Alliance should invade the lands of a single clan and destroy them before an alliance of the clans is formed in response to them. Not sure what a good clan to be this universe's Stormwind is, though.

>>46121602
Whatever's right near Dark Portal, I guess. Is that Bleeding Hollow?

>>46121602
well, Stormwind is the most conniving and Jewish of all kingdoms, so their equivalent would be Shadowmoon

>>46121134
>Goblins
>taken seriously
>having practical technology

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>>46121356
>>46121374

Except that the Horde and Iron Horde war machine both ran off of Goblin tech, not to mention their resource gathering operation are run off them, and orgrimmar and their navy are built by goblins.

On the other hand, how much Gnomish stuff does the Alliance actively use? The gyrocopters that people still attribute to dwarves half the time?

Point is, Goblin stuff may be dangerous, but its effective.

Gnome stuff isnt dangerous, but its also not all that useful.

Goblins are without a doubt less of a joke than Gnomes. Dont get me wrong, both are jokes. But gnomes cant ever be anything but. Hell, Gnomes are designed to look whacky and cute. Goblin are rougher and more dangerous looking.

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>all this gnome/goblin shitposting
Fuck you both, post elfs.

>>46121685
Goblin zeppelins are very practical, considering they can be on fire without blowing up-- I guess they're full of helium, rather than hydrogen, or maybe some other lifting gas-- Azeroth doesn't necessarily have the same periodic table as earth, since it's a different dimension and all. I mean, one of the orc weapon upgrades from WC is thorium, which is radioactive and therefore a terrible idea for weapons.

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>>46119870
To those who got the chronicles book. I'm still waiting on mine due to huge demand from amazon.

Was there anything neat in it for warriors, goblins, or pandaren?

>>46121555

We can have Sabreon as the local addition to the corrupted Alliance. They can kinda mirror each other.

So we have:

Humans = Orcs
High Elves = Arakkoa
Dwarves = Goren or Ogres maybe/ or even the botani

>>46121641
Most? I thought that would be Alterac, you know, the actual scheming traitors.

According to the wiki Hellfire Citadel was originally built for Rend Blackhand, Warchief and Chief of the Blackrock clan, so I guess they'd be the ones to get Warcraft 1'd. Almost fitting, given that the Blackrocks are the most persistent threat to Stormwind after the war.

>>46121730
>dat glorious purple ass
I would go full Illidan for that.

>>46121762
>one of the orc weapon upgrades from WC is thorium, which is radioactive and therefore a terrible idea for weapons.
I remember somebody doing a short piece of writefagging where a gnome scientist discovered that when exposed to an anti-magic field thorium, which in Warcraft is a hard greenish metal, changes colour and starts transforming into some other substance while emitting deadly energy.

>>46120148
I'd love to see forsaken, troll or worgen DH.

>>46121776
I still loved that people flipped out over the pandarin.

>>46120367
Yeah but Illidan did badwrongstuff like give the Night Elves immortality.

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>>46121919
It was amusing at first, but the 'lol blizzard ripped off kungfu panda' threads went on for fucking ever. I wanted to strangle the official forums after a solid month of pandaren shitposting.

>>46121826
>Most? I thought that would be Alterac, you know, the actual scheming traitors.
Alterac were just simple garden variety traitors, Stormwind spent the time period between WC2 to now fucking over everyone who tried to help them
>>46121762
>I guess they're full of helium, rather than hydrogen,
one of the zeppelin masters says that they are helium lifted

>>46122007
The new Illidan book literally made him flawless.

>>46122024
>Pandaren shitposting

Does a pandaren shitpost in the woods?

>>46122047
>Alterac were just simple garden variety traitors, Stormwind spent the time period between WC2 to now fucking over everyone who tried to help them

You know, for the longest time you could blame it on the fact that one half of the regency council was a black dragon who had the other half in mind bondage, but then they drive out Onyxia and proceed to keep dicking everyone over. Given the almost complete lack of policy changes I really have to ask whether it was even necessary for her to pretend to be Prestor in the first place.

>>46122103
Well I mean, she wouldn't have fit in the council chamber otherwise.

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>>46121709
>On the other hand, how much Gnomish stuff does the Alliance actively use? The gyrocopters that people still attribute to dwarves half the time?

Steam tanks.
Airships that don't get knocked out of the sky because they're not two metal-plated zeppelins strapped together.
Guns. Just like, all the guns, in general.

Seriously, it's tit for tat in the whole goblin vs. gnome front. As far as pissing contests go, it's pretty much even.

If goblins are less of a joke than gnomes, it's only because frothing Horde fanboys can't admit that something in their faction isn't cool and/or badass in some way or another. Goblins are a silly race. They are a ridiculous caricature of capitalism and the crazy demolitionist dialed up to 11.

>>46121776
GET OUT OF HERE, PEDOBEAR

>>46122049
Really? I mean he's a bit of a dipshit but he's far from flawless.

>>46122188
According to what another anon posed last thread,

>Illidan and his forced successfully destroyed Nathreza during BC, the dreadlord home world. They were about to invade Argus and do the same but we fucked it up. Demon Hunters going to Mardum was a last ditch plan.

>Illidan was fucked up beyond comprehension somehow before we fought him so we only fought a weak Illidan. Also, Illidan had nothing to do with the Shattrath attack.

>Also, Akama is a faggot and Illidan intended to give back Black Temple to him but Akama betrayed him. Also, Illidan apparently does 2 really heinous things in the book to complete his goals.

>Kael'thas went dark and didn't contact Illidan immediately after he settled into Netherstorm.

>Illidan is over Tyrande.

>Maiev considered slaughtering the BT raid party for "taking her kill" even though she finished off Illidan. Bitch is mad.

TL;DR everything that happened in Burning Crusade was in no way his fault, he was just a victim of Kael'thas, Akama, Maiev, and the players.

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>>46121919
>>46122024
To be fiar the Pandaren community can be annoying as fuck.

Then again, the only racial community I've found that doesnt tend to be annoying as fuck is tauren, somewhat dwarf, and goblin.

Even then, I'll take a Pandaren being cutesy over a human edgydin or a night elf "you're doing it wrong! Tyrande was perfect!" elitist anyday.

>>46122165
Steam tanks and guns are Dwarven, and in WC3, so was the gyrocopter. In WC2, the flying machine was Gnomish, as was the submarine.

I think in WC3 they figured that gnomes were redundant and tried to just ignore them, maybe even retcon them out-- and then when they were doing WoW, they realized that, shit, they needed another Alliance race, and went back through the old lore to find one.

>>46122255
Warcraft novels are more cancerous than Goto's Blood Raven novels.

>>46122319
I can see that. Gnomes were completely absent from Warcraft III. Not even a hint about them, except for maybe in the manual, but I don't remember.

>>46122360
It helps that 40k's universe is so big and constantly in flux, so it's usually very easy to ignore a lot of the unreadable Black Library books. Warcraft novels, however, readable or not, are explicitly canon and are often at the forefront of the lore, and thus not simple to ignore.

>>46122255
IIRC, Akama was always just a massive faggot. The raid trailer was pretty much Akama stating that he was just biding his time until he could claim the temple for himself. You side with him in Frozen Throne and he swears to help Illidan in return for protection.

Wasn't KT betraying illidan also a fan theory at the time that the game never confirmed? It'd make no sense for Illidan to attack Shattrath, he's trying to consolidate his power to fend off Adventurers and the legion, why antagonise the Naaru? KT wants the magic.

And Illidan would always watch over Tyrande, he states so and that not a take backsies statement, not in warcraft. Maiev is a cunt and always will be.

>>46122007
>>46122049
He was always flawless and he never did anything wrong.

Even when he went and got his demon powers from Sarg he never used them againt his people, he turned right around, freed Tyrande, and started getting demon ass.

The only time he can be said to have EVER done anything wrong is when he attacked Shattrath, but even thats somewhat implied to have been Kael'Thas and not Illidans doing.

>>46122508
>Wasn't KT betraying illidan also a fan theory at the time that the game never confirmed? It'd make no sense for Illidan to attack Shattrath, he's trying to consolidate his power to fend off Adventurers and the legion, why antagonise the Naaru? KT wants the magic.

A theory I was told on why Illidan attacked Shattrath for no reason is that he was being driven insane/paranoid by the Skull of Gul'dan.

Much as I don't like the whole "X has gone crazy!" explanation in WoW, I would've at least liked it if the novel just explained that TBC as a bad period for Illidan because the Skull of Gul'dan was causing him to lose his ability to reason, and his return in Legion is sort of Illidan's attempt at redemption. Instead of just going the easy route and saying he dindu nuffin.

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>>46122312
... That art is pretty badass, I gotta admit.
I mean, are you seeing the claw-gloves on the one on the right?

Oh, hey. 3 monk types. Mistweaver, Brewmaster, and Windwalker. I got it. Cool.

>>46122360
Blizz recently hired a new publishing company with decent writers.

The one writing the Illidan novel is William King.

>>46122617
To be fair, Illidan is hardly known for reliable alliances and relationships. His Brother exiled him (and then didn't and then tried to kill him and aaaa), the woman he loves sent him to another planet, Vashj was also working on betraying him, Akama is a nob and betrayed him, no reason the magic-addicted Keal'Thas should be the redemptive ally who actually stands by him. His only consistent relationship is that his jailor has always hated his guts.

>>46122732
Man, what? I always liked Vashj, how was she going betray Illidan?

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Out of left field, I want to be Li Li a major player. Like, the chosen of the August Celestials or something.

And maybe the new pandaren racial leader since Aysa and Ji are essentially worthless wastes of space, and Chen is too busy getting drunk and being fat.

>>46122820
Looked into, that's my bad. She wasn't. Oops.

>>46122820
Considering Vashj was still presumably loyal to queen Azhara and through her the Old Gods, she might have been planning on something in case Illidan's interests would conflict those of her queen.

>>46122885
Chen and Li Li are in Legion.

Li Li goes with you to skywall as a monk to get the fist weapons. They also act as bodyguards throughout the expansion, essentially perma followers.

Whats weird is that Nomi the cooking apprentice is now all grown up, while she is still young. But, due to heroes of the storm, she'll never ever grow up or be anything else but second to Chen now.

>>46121685
The downside of gnomish tech has always been it's impracticality.

A gnome will dedicate his whole life to making the worlds most fantastic music box: spend millions of gold in developing it, 43,836 blueprints, 2,300 test models, 845 prototypes, 35 more years of live testing and then realise it can't be reproduced in manufacturing because of how intricate it is and only two models are built (which are mostly used as paper weights in some workshop in Gnomergan).

The messed up thing? Because it was done in the spirit of invention, it's still considered a success.

Of the few practical and consistent thing they do produce (like a seige tank) a goblin will just mass produce a series of blackpowder mines and be both fiscally sound and industrially powerful.


The fuck'ed up thing?

>>46122319
>>46122417
Dwarves just construct *And stabilize) what the gnomes design.

And I'm pretty sure based on the voice that the Gyrocopter pilot was a gnome.

>>46123048
Lore info for the gyrocopter in wc3:
Mechanical flying machine flown by a Dwarven pilot.

I suppose the gnomes made the mechano striders... the goofiest mount ever.

Or the spider tank... which no one ever uses.

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>>46123040
>Whats weird is that Nomi the cooking apprentice is now all grown up, while she is still young. But, due to heroes of the storm, she'll never ever grow up or be anything else but second to Chen now.
Probably because they don't want to make a new model just for an adult Li Li like they did for Anduin, and also don't want her to be a chubby default female pandaren.

But that's cool, I'm fine with doing kung fu with a spunky panda sidekick.

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Duke Lionheart was a Badass, I sorta want a maimed (Blinded maybe?) version of him to wander Ashenvale smiting demon remnants while vaguely pissed off about elves.

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>>46123105
>Or the spider tank... which no one ever uses.
YOU BETTER TAKE THAT BACK!

>>46123133
>I want my favorite character to return as a force ghost
metzen pls

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>>46123133

>>46123133
I always pictured his hypothetical son ending up the Theramore ambassador to Orgrimmar, myself.

>>46122702
Wait, really?

Did they at least keep Christie Golden?

>>46123338
I don't read Warcraft novels anymore, but I would at least hope so. She's one of the decent ones.

>>46122360
Actually we already figured out most of the things in the book even before a novel is ever made.
(Kael attacked shattrath on his own, Akama was a dick.. etc)

The only new info is Illidan was attacking the BL home worlds and he is over tyrande.

>>46123338
Golden is pretty passable, and I keep meaning to read the Vol'jin book since it's by Stackpole and I, Jedi was pretty amazing (And his other SW works were prety good, I've not actually read his reviled Battletech works though)

>>46123500
Akama DID get a chunk of his soul taken by Illidan, and had to watch a lot of his people get enslaved. That's not exactly going to endear him to the guy. Especially when he's not revealing his big anti-legion plans.

>>46123586
Odds are that, had Illidan put more trust in Akama, Akama would have been fine with leaving Karabor "on loan" to help destroy the Burning Legion. But as far as he was aware, Illidan was just building a seemingly useless army (to possibly fight and kill his non-cursed people) and muttering to himself and caressing his pet orc-skull.

And then he took a piece of Akama's soul as a hostage and made the entire Ashtongue Tribe do what he said.

So yeah, Akama's duplicity was hardly surprising because Illidan kinda pushed him to it. He just didn't count on Akama not being cowed so easily.

>>46123338
I hope they didn't. They were better than Knaak for sure, but their last few books were absolute garbage, and they have a huge hardon for Thrall.

>>46123472
Agreed and agreed. I've only really kept tabs on her books, since she writes good Thrall/orc-side stories and seems to be the most decent writer working on Warcraft stuff. I'd be annoyed if they dropped her after all this time.

>>46123586
"Vol'jin" wasn't too bad, but if I had to go with a Pandaria-era book, I'd recommend Golden's "War Crimes," because it might as well be called Ace Attorney: Warcraft Edition. Baine Bloodhoof gets much needed screen time, and Golden's interpretation of him would be enough to make him my favorite if Blizzard would actually DO something with him.

Both suffer a little from Pandaren dispensing fortune cookie wisdom, but it's honestly par for the course.

I'll have to look into Stackpole's Star Wars books, I absolutely did not know he wrote for that too.

>>46123736
>have a huge hardon for Thrall

Given that Golden has been writing Thrall since circa Warcraft III, and probably didn't have anything to do with Blizzard's hardon for Thrall (and them turning him into green Jesus), I'm willing to believe she did the best she could with what she had.

>>46123586
>Vol'jin book since it's by Stackpole
Hold the fuck up. Stackpole writes novels for Blizzard now? Rogue Squadron on gryphons fucking when?

I just wanted lewd pictures of Sylvanas

>>46123791
>baine's description
sneaky lawyer bastard?

looking for good warcraft fanfics.
post 'em

>>46123830
At one point he points out Vol'Jin was a hypocrite who backstabbed Garrosh and went treasonous way before Garrosh did anything wrong.

It was about the only good part of the novel. Still wondering why the tiger celestial took on the form of a human.

>>46123698
Actually he did

Illidan Stormrage yells: Akama. Your duplicity is hardly surprising. I should have slaughtered you and your malformed brethren long ago.
Akama yells: We've come to end your reign, Illidan. My people, and all of Outland, shall be free!

>>46123791
> War Crimes
> The Entire Alliance leadership going full retarded
> Good

>>46120148
I can see Orcs, Draenei and maybe some Humans, by sheer virtue of them being the only ones of Draenor when Illidan arrived and started training new ones

>>46123888
I'm a fan of Diplomacy by Weila and Unity by Ivorytower, they're both Thrall/Jaina political romances.

Frostblood is also pretty good right up until the ending, it's about Jaina becoming the new Lich King instead of Bolvar. You can skip the last four chapters, the strongest arc ends right before the author introduces Cataclysm stuff and it just gets kind of weird.

There are some /tg/ originals here:
http://pastebin.com/djeh7zDr
and the sequel,
http://pastebin.com/r3d6CD18

They're about an elf learning to be a hunter in the orc style.

>>46123804
...Kudran's Gambit when?

>>46124080
>jaina/thrall romances
gross.

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>>46124094
If Kurdran is Wedge, who are Wes, Hobbie, Tycho, and Luke?

>>46124219
... Uh... Turalyon, Danath, and Alleria, but not in that order.

RIP Sky'ree

>>46123791
>I'll have to look into Stackpole's Star Wars books, I absolutely did not know he wrote for that too.
Christie Golden wrote for Star Wars, also, although only for the tail-end of the old canon. Most of her work was part of the Fate of the Jedi series, which was a pretty meh story; I don't think it was necessarily her fault, since she was only one of three writers contributing to it. It just leaned on the side of dull, although her insight into the Lost Tribe of Sith was interesting, as well as her writing of Vestara Khai.

I hear her first foray into the new canon wasn't so great, however, which is a novel called Dark Disciple about Quinlan Vos and Assaj Ventress. Again, though, I don't know how much of that was Golden, since it was based on abandoned scripts for The Clone Wars.

>>46123989
Golden really likes the Horde, so it wasnt a surprise.

>>46124460
Funny how Goldens bad work is never "her fault".

>>46124559
I'm not saying she's completely innocent, just that I don't know how much of the issues in the projects she worked on were due to her or outside influence.

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>>46124559
pointing out a women is an incompetent moron is sexist

they just needed someone to write more thinly veiled black cuck fetish fuel aka "noble savage" orcs killing and breeding "racist evil" humans

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>>46124732

>>46124847
Put some clothes on, you immortal space goat Light Demon whore.

>>46124732
There's something about that face that bothers me.

I think it's because it looks like a blow-up doll or something equally vapid and brainless.

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>>46124994
>blow-up doll or something equally vapid and brainless

its called a women

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>>46124976
No.

>>46125031
Pretty sure it's called "shit porn artist."

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>>46125067
youre entitled to your wrong opinions

loving the garrison system in WoD so far.

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>>46124994
Monara (Dr. Graveling's signature draenei) is portrayed as a known airhead and too nice for her own good, with the occasional "yes yes" or "no no" verbal tic.

Dr. Graveling is also of the opinion that draenei face tentacles are prehensile (they're not).

>>46124847
Got any Snaketrap?

>>46125128
>draenei face tentacles are prehensile

oh thats a good idea and would make me like them more. always looked so in the way on males especially

of course dr memelings reasons are for magical realm nonsense but i like the idea anyway

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>>46124994
His biggest issue is that he tends not be able to add dynamism to his faces. He can get them down in a decent variety, but they all tend to be very static.
>>46125128
Bigger version.
Kinda.

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>>46125174
I also like the idea of draenei face tentacles being prehensile, though it is a bit Mindflayer-y.

>>46123040
>Whats weird is that Nomi the cooking apprentice is now all grown up
He was probably meant to be older than he appeared, but they only had so many pandaren models and he wouldn't work as an adult pandaren yet.

>>46120412
Jaina?

>>46124847

So does the good Doctor still think this whore is pure?

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>>46125382
Considering how many dicks he's drawn in and around her, he'd be pretty fucking delusional.

>>46124080
Oh you read it! Right? It takes a steep drop in quality, it just goes in the wrong direction. The right direction would have been kt/jaina smut.

>>46125264
Lili was pretty much a teenager in WoD according to the writer of Pearl of Pandaria.

That was four years ago by the time Legion will be out.

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This is the reason I rolled a belf.

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>>46125208
>His biggest issue is that he tends not be able to add dynamism to his faces. He can get them down in a decent variety, but they all tend to be very static.
I'm not much into art, but I think I can see what you're getting at. His faces are kinda, I dunno, flat, along with that idiot doe-eyed look.

>>46125730
Female blood elves are maximum hourglass without being draenei.

>>46125553
It should have just ended with Ner'zul's death, after maybe a little wrap up. That was the strongest stopping place, with all of the mysteries solved, KT's loyalty ultimately affirmed and the Scourge firmly on a new path. KT/Jaina should be an omake at most.

>>46125786
This is why I was disappointed after rolling a belf.

>>46125835
I loved being a male belf before they got muscles because it made me feel pretty.

>>46125730
I remember back during Burning Crusade, I came across a thread discussing how draenei females are sexier than blood elf females.

I remember one male blood elf player saying something like,
>Hey, Alliance, let's trade. We'll take your draenei women, and in exchange, you can have the blood elf women. You can use them as brooms or something.

I remember another bit that made me chuckle, which was something like,
>I don't know, I think female blood elves are fine. That Lor'themar chick is pretty hot.

I wish I could track down that thread.

RIP Skyfire... you were a fine airship
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYNCCu0y-Is

>>46125031
>>46125102
>hates women
>just posting beardless men

Surprise you're not posting pandaren, because I'm pretty sure you're into BEARS.

>>46125960
This is the best cinematic trailer Blizzard has made. Varian stance dancing made it great.

Thoughts on an entirely home brewed quest taking place almost exactly after place of story directly after the events in Frozen Throne. Not a single point past it in history or lore is to be used

>>46125820
Honestly, and it may be kind of petty, but the thing that bothered me the most about that story was the whole "Lady King" bit. That is not how holding multiple titles works! You use the highest ranked title as your own, and the lesser are added afterwords. Beyond that, she apparently forfeit rulership of Theramore, so it wasn't like she was the Lady of anymore either.

>>46126014
nah, its too many explosions and animu fighting.

WoTLK was the best trailer, followed by vanilla.

>>46125960
We can build a bigger one with better AA!

>>46126042
both are great for different reasons

>>46126014
I always knew he was fury/arms dual spec. He's just too angry to be anything else.

>>46124430
>>46124219
Probably gotta work his brother Falstad in there too.

>>46124460
>>46124559
Golden gets handed bad editorial mandates a lot, and despite the "TWEEST" at the end of Dark Disciple being pre-written and out of her hands The Clone Wars team apparently decided to de-retcon Voss and have him murder Ventress in a relapse into Ostranderism. the book itself was good.

Even Aaron fucking Allston's work in the Vong and Post-Vong era star wars EU was tainted by the overall metaplot.

WoW's writers said "We're gonna have Garrosh nuke Theramore: make it compelling and have Jaina go nuts but stop being nuts by the end." And she wrote within those constraints.

I do blame her partly for the mess of Twilight of the Aspects, but all of Cata was a mess and it's hard to say whose fault that awfulness was (And seeing as they basically repeated that plot in-game it was fairly pointless)

I'm fulling willing to blame her for Arthas over obsessing on his horse of all things (Even though that may have been "We need you to hype the fuck out of the sweet mount we're gonna make him drop")


Overall she's just a middling writer who gets the short end of the editorial stick.

>>46125960
That's not the Skyfire, the Skyfire dies later in the expansion (The Vrykul area.) when its captain and Genn decide to gank Sylvanus. Because Kosak wanted her to not only WIN but be "In the right" this expansion.

>>46126014
Stance dancing? When? (I never played a Warrior back when stance-dancing was an actual thing)

>>46126042
But Vanilla had the most fighting of them all?

>>46126079
He starts out Arms spec when on the airship, then switches to Fury after going underwater.

>>46126079
Damn it Genn we can kill her AFTER we push the legion back!

>>46126079
vanilla didn't have annoying anime fighting and michael bay tier explosions.

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>>46126119
Ok how would YOU kill it then

>>46125992
>say something not politically correct
>liberals start calling everyone faggots

Every. Time.

>>46126033
That was handled pretty weirdly, too. I mean, if anything, Theramore should have become a democracy, instead of Tandred making Kul Tiras a democracy and then going to govern Theramore. It's just such a bizarre thing to do.

>>46126042
WotLK really didn't have much going on (sweeping camera pan, Arthas, more sweeping camera pans, Arthas, more sweeping camera pans- and then he stabs the ice) but it worked very well.

Vanilla got me so fucking hyped for WoW when it started. I mean, I was hyped already because I got to try the beta and it blew EverQuest out of the water and was in a universe I was already pretty familiar with, but going through those race intros just... set the mood, y'know?

I was really fond of the MoP intro, personally. The human vs. orc fight getting interrupted by Chen, kicking both of their asses to the point of a comedic truce? Sure, lacks the same gravitas, but I enjoyed it.

WoD also had a pretty fantastic trailer even if the expansion itself sucked big sweaty orc ass. I got tingles when Garrosh pushed Gul'dan and aside and went, "Times change."

>>46126014
>the best cinematic trailer Blizzard has made
they're never going to top SC2's

>>46126222
>WotLK really didn't have much going on
It had plenty going on. You just had to turn the fucking sound on you idiot.

>>46126228
>i must return to my people
*flies off to heaven*

>>46126176
speaking of which, is there any fanfic of arthas and sylvie pairing up?

>>46126228
>I must go, my brood needs me: the game
WoL end was pretty dope.

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>>46126014
Eh, the voices seemed a bit off at parts. Not sure if it was the acting or the audio but it didn't sound quite right. Another thing that irks me is the implication that Sylvanas fucking Windrunner, the goddamn Bitch Queen, is a beacon of tolerance and friendship.

>>46125960

What happens to the infernals who fall into the ocean? Do they just stay in their meteor form, or do they run around scaring the fishes?

>>46126329
>Sylvanas fucking Windrunner, the goddamn Bitch Queen, is a beacon of tolerance and friendship.
Horde babbies couldn't handle Sylvie being a band guy.

>>46126317
>>46126318
I think he means
>hell, it's about damn time

>>46126375
I want Sylvannas to go full-Nazi.

I do hope we get the comics that MoP and WoD got
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG3RVCEwCPg

>>46126219
I thought that they did set it up as a republic, and he was just hanging around as interim governor.

On that note, another thing that bugs me about Frostblood is how stuff just drops right out of the story. It happens to the Ebon Blade too, once they leave icecrown they're just never seen again. The Argents nearly got the same treatment if it weren't for Fordring becoming a dick about it.

>>46125960
the scenes with the dumb elf bitch are too cringey to deal with

>>46126317
>>46126318
trailer

like, we can have the "most retarded game story award" later

>>46126390
Man, that was a real trip. I remember being so excited I was trembling.

>>46126318
>speaking of which, is there any fanfic of arthas and sylvie pairing up?
bumping.

>>46126329
>Another thing that irks me is the implication that Sylvanas fucking Windrunner, the goddamn Bitch Queen, is a beacon of tolerance and friendship.
You can't blatantly backstab the Alliance in the middle of a Burning Legion invasion. She knows how to mask her priorities.

>>46126451
yeah, I felt the same awesomeness during the WoD trailer like the anon said
>times change
was a pretty huge fuck yeah moment

>>46126390

I was so hyped for that.

Oh SC2, so much potential..

>>46125820
I agree with both sentiments. I just really wanted some romance because its not like I'm going to get this pair anywhere else

>>46126079
I feel like the horse/invincible thing was some botch attempt at a Bucephalus

>>46126176
Vanilla's opening was GOAT, coming from a War3babby. It was so amazing to see all the iconic races in the world, and it gave such promise of what was to come

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>>46126290
Okay, Terenas' speech was very stirring and added a lot, but a guy in a soundbooth does not 10k+ man-hours make. I'm speaking more in regards to models, scenery, storyboarding, etc.

There was a lot less work put into Wrath's intro than the rest because, let's be honest, overdoing it would have made it shitty. What made it stand out was how simple it was... also leading up to Sindragosa busting out of the ice and swooping down over the endless legions of the undead.

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>>46126514
thats what happens when you include any characters that arent straight white males and pander to faggot millennials

>>46126079
The funny thing about Genn attacking Sylvanas is that Sylvanas is so ludicrously evil by now that anyone who attacks her is pretty much automatically doing the right thing.

>>46126514
SO much potential. What's even worse is the little moments of awesomeness in the various cinematics.You know they're capable of making something that would live up to all of the fucking hype.

>those vikings in HotS's intro
>that battle line of siege tanks and marines immediately afterwards
>fucking RUINED the second kerrigan shows her ugly mug
Mengsk should have killed her.
Jimmy should have killed her.
Goddam Tychus should have killed her.

FUCK prophecies.

>>46126420
I thought the author was a little weak at resolving climactic actions. They were very anti climactic.

>>46126609
she did use WMD's on his people and she killed his god damn son!

>>46126609
Yeah, but you just know the writers are going to somehow try and make Genn the asshole.

>>46126609
What evil thing has Sylv done aside from plague nuke Gilneas?

>>46126629

B-but Kerrigan is too pure to die, she has to become a God!

Jim should have blown her brains out when she rescued him

>>46126375
>>46126484
Baine would have been a better choice. He and Anduin were bros, weren't they? Their friendship was a better example of cross-faction friendship than any of Sylvanas' recent hijinks. It would also have been a great way to show the guy really growing into his predecessor's role.

Hell, even Liadrin would have made more sense. Even her limited interaction with Alliance PCs in WoD made her come across as a decent enough battle buddy.

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>>46126425
Sounds like someone wants to die and be turned in to a Forsaken!

>>46126609
That's the problem with a playable undead faction, you just have to give them plot armor. Sucks for me, i'm still waiting for some Tirion action up their asses.

>>46126633
Yeah, I'd agree with that. The entire Cata arc at the end felt weird. I mean, I think there was a lot of potential there but the actual execution was just sub-par.

Combat in general pretty clearly isn't her specialty and I think keeping to a broader view would have worked better.

>>46126697
jim should have blown her brains out on char with his best bro then gone out for beers because they're space rednecks

then they could have brought in a proto-overmind for 2

and then they solve the hybrid problem in 3 with a bunch of nukes because mengsk loves nukes and the protoss mystics didn't predict there being that many left over after all the nuclear apocalypses on Korhal

>>46126761
>tfw you can't praise Sylvannas without being called an abomination

>>46126761
No it isn't

It's the problem with playable undead post-Cataclysm, yeah, but back in Vanilla they were sympathetic and had a perfectly good reason for not being dead yet. Support from the rest of the Horde

>>46126751
thassarian should snark at her while we break undercity open to rescue koltira.

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>>46126751
they could of a least made her hot instead of giving her man face

>>46126629
I would have forgiven it all if they hadnt fucked up the ending and had Jim and Kerrigan disappear forever like fucking aragorn and that elf bitch he was banging.

The final scene should have just been Jim sitting at the bar from wings of liberty staring at Sarahs photo. No happy endings, just a reminder that not everyone gets a happily ever after.

>>46126716
I hate Sylvanas' cold, withered guts as much as the next sensible person, but a war-leader Baine is not. Sylvanas is the most qualified to fight the Legion, unfortunately- and that's what they need while Vol'jin goes to Zandalar to secure the aid of King Rastakhan and the remaining Zandalari trolls. Such is my guess, anyway.

>Hell, even Liadrin would have made more sense
Liadrin is a paladin follower. She gets to join you as a sidekick.

>>46126861
Elves don't look like the Japanese, anon.

>>46126871
aragorn dies
arwen dies
they don't disappear.

>>46126861
Metzans daughter was embarrassed by sexy sylv, so they're making her less pretty

I am not joking.

>>46126897

Well they die and go to heaven, it was a poor choice of words.

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I thought this was a WoW thread and not a SC thread

>>46126924
no, it's the papercraft thread

>>46126923
they don't go to heaven either.

>>46126119
What made this battle more anime/Michael bay than say, the Mage vs Infernals fight in the Vainilla trailer.

>>46126693
Plague nuke Southshore, plague nuke Hillsbrad Village.

>>46126761
Pre cata was fine.

>>46126861
Her skin's supposed to look drawn and undead.

>>46126911
Probably not "Embarassed" probably more "If you're gonna make money off of girls in bikini armor you can't tell me how to dress DAD!"

And that was just why they put more clothing on her.

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>>46126911
But sexy Sylvanas was the only reason to be in the Forsaken.

>>46126924
>Warcraft 40000
Interesting.

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>>46126911
Or maybe they wanted her to resemble a BANSHEE Queen rather than just a red-eyed, blue-grey-skinned elf. She looks at least half-ass undead in the cinematic, and has armor because hey, she's pretty afraid of getting permakilled these days. Like, "literally her only motivation" kind of fear.

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>>46126999
But all the guys want to follow DAT ASS into battle.

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>>46126290
Not everyone thought Arthas' storyline was the best part of WC3, or thought abandoning the Nerz'hul/Arthas fusion into a new being was a good idea. Or played a Paladin/Priest/DK/other class that related to the Wrath storyline.

>>46126962
>the Mage vs Infernals fight in the Vainilla trailer.
Damn, that fight almost had me rolling a human male mage. My main is a human female mage. Arcane, though, because I just love being a vending machine.

So, how shitty is Legion lore so far? I really hated
the idea of giving players legendary weapons.

>>46126693
Her idea of convincing the Blood Elves to fight Arthas was blackmailing Lor'themar. I forget the details, though.

Then there's the post-Cata necromancy. Forsaken Deathguard also hunt down most sapient undead who don't want to swear allegiance to her. She also captured and tortured Koltira, a bro-tier DK NPC, for negotiating a truce with Thassarian's forces in the Plaguelands.

During Icecrown, she was a bitch to the Horde mook NPCs and generally referred to them as "fodder." She was also pretty happy if Lor'themar bites it during Siege of Orgrimmar, seeing as she was so eager to resurrect him in her dialogue files.

>>46127101
Don't worry. Apparently Blizzard promised access to artifacts will be only temporary.

Anyone have a tldr on Legion lore?

>>46127101
its fairly decent and the artifact weapons play 0 part in the story outside of the initial 20 minutes of questing that has you getting them.

The class quests are based around your class, not the weapon you wield.

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>>46127030
And that's why Forsaken fanboys are cancer.

They want to be the edgy undead dickholes who have a sexy undead elf for a leader. Imagine if roles had been reversed in WC3 and KT was the defector and Sylvanas was the one who remained under the Lich King's control. The faction wouldn't be nearly as popular with a big skeletal lich.

The point is that people think with their dicks too much.

>pictured
Not the side of the Forsaken they ever touch upon- that they were once living people with friends, family, and emotions. Nah, everyone is now just Sylvanas' dark and twisty spookpatrol. GLORY TO THE DARK LADY and stuff.

>>46127184
So, the characters just ignore them? isn't that even worse?

>>46127180
Ysera gets corrupted and has to be killed. It's Tyrande's fault

There was a clutch of uncorrupted black dragon eggs in highmountain that Wrathion found

The head titan watcher is making an army and needs you to free it as he was cursed by a Valkyr he soul raped

The Dk are starting a new four DK riders. So far we know that Nazgrim is one, and Danath's father is the second.

Shamans are trying to get the elemental lords to ally with them

Thats all I know so far.

>>46127248
LITERALLY not possible with the first generation Forsaken because the first generation can't feel any emotion other than anger. The second generation CAN feel emotion, and they fucked it up with making Lilian Voss a munchkin.

are there any writefags here?

>>46127248
>Imagine if roles had been reversed in WC3 and KT was the defector and Sylvanas was the one who remained under the Lich King's control.
I'd follow Kel'Thuzad. He seems like the kind of guy you can rely on to get shit done. And to listen when told not to plague bomb shit.

Snarky skeletons > sexed up corpses.

>>46127323
Why do you ask?

>>46127301
Yes they can

They can feel negative emotions perfectly, so sorrow fits right in, and even then they can still feel positive emotions, they just feel less of them

>>46127323
why?

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>>46127332
What about sexed-up snarky skeleton?

>>46127248
I'd actually consider making a non-BE horde character if KT was the faction leader.

Because then I'd get to be a spooky skeleton following a bigger, spookier skeleton. And that's awesome.

>>46127248
Mostly because Sylvanas doesn't allow the Forsaken to be anything but her spookpatrol. The Dark Lady is officially in it for herself and no one else.

>>46127264
The weapon is a symbol of your leadership mostly. What more needs to be said of them?

Tirions dead and ashbringer is yours now. End of story.

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>>46127248
>The point is that people think with their dicks too much
Dude, this is, like, of the reasons for Warcraft's popularity.

>>46127301
>the first generation can't feel any emotion other than anger
What named NPCs count as "first generation?" Leonid Bartholomew seemed pretty chill when he handed out Argent Dawn quests.

>>46127360
I had an idea for a warcraft story I would like to see

Or more specifically, I remember a conversation on /tg/ from years ago that I think would make a good story

>>46127389
What's worse is that Tirion apparently goes out like a bitch.

>>46127394
*one of

>>46127389
Thank you Metzen senpai.

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>>46127415
>Tirion apparently goes out like a bitch.

the fate of all race traitor fence sitters

>>46127415
He fought off screen and you know he left a pile of corpses.

It's just that his on screen death is AFTER he got worn down and then tortured.

>>46127248
Do you even know how many times I used the line, "Let me show you why it's called the WAILING Caverns," in ERP?

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>>46127301
>LITERALLY not possible with the first generation Forsaken because the first generation can't feel any emotion other than anger.

Yeahno. Forsaken are pretty bland but they were never THAT two-dimensional. There are questgivers who are mournful over their state (or were, prior to Cata).

>>46127332
>replace Sylvanas with Kel'thuzad
>the Forsaken make twice as many gains with half the war crimes

>>46127478
And three times the banter!

>>46127111
>Her idea of convincing the Blood Elves to fight Arthas was blackmailing Lor'themar. I forget the details, though.

Shortly before the invasion of Northrend, Lor'themar was going to keep Quel'thalas out of the conflict because, after the Third War and the events of Burning Crusade (effectively fighting a civil war and battle on their home turf), he believed his people needed a time to rebuild. Sylvanas basically tells him that he'd better mobilize his forces, or the Forsaken will drop their support of the Blood Elves.

That pisses Rommath off, who then accused Sylvanas of blackmail, but Lor'themar just says to let it go and obeys Sylvanas.

She does pretty much strong-arm Lor'themar into aiding the invasion of Northrend, but some other people pointed out that this was Sylvanas also doing a kinda, "we scratched your back, you scratch ours," deal, since the Horde DID give the Blood Elves a ton of support in Burning Crusade.

After all, this was about when Sylvanas was more on reasonable time, prior to when she went full Bitch Queen, so it's not unreasonable to assume that she was making a good point, albeit in a somewhat forceful manner.

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>>46127478
>Kel'thuzad
>Reducing war crimes
If anything, he'd probably try to turn war crimes up to eleven and make it hilarious all the while.

>>46127478

We'd probably get kittens instead of shitty cockroaches as well.

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>>46127394
I--... That--...

Well, you're not wrong.
I know I love draenei gals a bit too much.
... Stupid sexy waggle.

>>46127248
It's a shame, because that's why I rolled one in Vanilla.

>>46127478
And a quest to become a lich, please!

>>46127525
Nah, he kind of lacks the entire reason behind Sylvanas' warcrimes. She's doing all this to build up her meatshields so that she can't be permakilled. On the other hand, as long as he has some trained necromancers hanging around (and why would he ever not?) KT can always come back.

Though he's terribly fond of being a giant spooky skeleton, Kel'Thuzad does understand the concept of minimal force, at least. The man was able to lay low with the cult until it was time to go full plague, after all.

>>46127525
And that's the key difference. KT could have been exactly what the Banshee Queen is not; smart, funny and deathly serious.

>>46127591
KT building a death cult that escaped the prying eyes of the government, church, and local populations AND wiping out four countries with home-made bioweapons just shows how LE he is, and I loved it.

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>>46127591
>Nah, he kind of lacks the entire reason behind Sylvanas' warcrimes.
What better reason is there than the desire to have fun? The living see war crimes. Kel'Thuzad sees a high score board.

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>>46127527

where would Lil' K.T. fit into all of this?

>>46126999
Up until Legion banshees were also fairly pretty.

>>46127167
Which is just DOUBLE bullshit.

If you're gonna give them to us they should probably stay with us till we've saved the world for good.

>>46127276
>Ysera gets corrupted and has to be killed. It's Tyrande's fault
Tyrande KILLS her (With the help of the player and one of the only remaining noncorrupted Val'Sharah archdruids. ...The Bear-form one I think?) But how she gets corrupted is in an unreleased cutscene.
>There was a clutch of uncorrupted black dragon eggs in highmountain that Wrathion found
Not exactly, he stole them from the past.

>>46127276
>The head titan watcher is making an army and needs you to free it as he was cursed by a Valkyr he soul raped
Yeah, making Odyn the GOOD guy that much of a dick, and forcing players to side with him was pretty shitty.

Has KT become the new hotness?

>>46127402
Are you going to elaborate on that at all?

>>46127748
What, he wasn't the old hotness? I can't think of a time where KT wasn't generally liked, as a good villain at the very least. I mean, he's a giant lich who loves his job and his pet cat, what's not to like?

>>46127694
Damn, man. Spoiler tags exist for a reason.

>>46127694
>Yeah, making Odyn the GOOD guy that much of a dick, and forcing players to side with him was pretty shitty.
After reading Chronicles, yeah. Odyn is a huge dick. Like, the biggest.

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>>46127694
>Up until Legion banshees were also fairly pretty.
My unboner disagrees very strongly with this statement.

>>46127749
Oh right, sorry

An old forsaken and an old orc, both veterans of the 2nd war, swap war stories and slowly realise that they had fought each other one on one, back when one of them was demon-addled and the other was alive

>>46127790
It's like her hair is being pulled in every direction just off camera.

>>46127591
Honestly, I have to wonder why Sylvanas hasn't considered turning into a lich to avoid death. She's already undead, so it's not like it's making life any worse for her.

But no, it's totally a better plan to raise more undead, which will just cause more people to want to kill her in the first place.

>>46127832
I think you can only go undead once, and can't swap styles once you're stuck in one. She got turned into a banshee, so she can't slice up her soul and cram it into a phylactery like KT or the other Liches did.

>>46127832
Canonically Sylvanas is literally insane. She's died like three times.

>>46127876
Well, you can be a forsaken DK, so at least some forms of undeath can stack.

Why's Sylvanas considered to be a bad person, again?

>>46127832
>>46127918
WoW writers have casually forgotten that she's a Banshee possessing her own corpse and killing her off should have no effect on her.

>>46127931
Literally Hitler if Van Braun had stayed with the Nazis.

>>46127918
Is being a Scourge DK really specific form of undeath, though? I always assumed it was just what kind of powers you have access to through the Lich King. I mean, Arthas actually loses his powers as the Lich King's magic leaks out of the Frozen Throne, but he's still undead without them. I figured they were just intelligent, well preserved zombies empowered in specific ways.

>>46127954
How did they forget that the BANSHEE QUEEN is a fucking BANSHEE?

I know they have some bad writers on staff, but it's in her title!

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>>46127931
>Known to engage in mind control
>Possesses her own gulag
>Rampant expansionism (ostensibly in the Horde's name)
>War crimes
>Keeping an ever-growing stockpile of the most potent biological weapons in the world
>Is a sexy bitch

>>46127985
Yes, being a death knight is a specific form of undeath. You can either be raised as one, or you can be empowered as one while you're living.

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>>46127968
>Sylvannas is Nazis
Return to Castle Lordaeron when, Blizzard?

>>46127954
That'd be a fucking hilarious twist on her tossing herself from ICC, right there. She completely forgot she doesn't need her body and is just like "Oh. Right. Shit." When she's kicked back out into banshee form.

All I'm getting from all this bitching is that Sylvs is going to get the same treatment as Kerrigan.

>>46127985
The second generation of DKs were raised by Val'kyr rune magic, so they remain preserved. It's separate from the fel necromancy employed by the Lich King..

>>46127998
>Known to engage in several forms of ethnic cleansing
>Uses outlawed means to bolster her ranks (val'kyr)

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>>46128023
Who is the BJ Blazkowicz of Azeroth?

>>46128023
Hopefully never. If Sylvanas showed up in a sexy SS officer's uniform, Kosak's flood of jizz might actually alter coastlines.

>>46128033
Probably.

As an aside: I want to know what would happen if Kerrigan and Sylvanas met. Bitch queen of the universe versus bitch queen of Azeroth. They'd either kill each other or start making out.

Actually, I wonder if they have any quotes in HotS. Blizz is really good about comedic unit banter, generally.

>>46128052
>Uses outlawed means to bolster her ranks (val'kyr)

To be fair, she doesn't really have any other means of getting new people.

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>>46128078
Tyrosus.

>>46127775
Never, its just rare for us to say such nice things. Also hes my favorite character so I'm always excited to gush

>>46127998
Ah, I didn't know about the gulag and war-crimes.

The making of more forsaken is fair, honestly. People might be grossed out about it, but the corpses are just sitting there anyway, although the conscription should probably be a bit more optional.

I mean, is anybody clean in WoW besides the extremely vanilla not-humans of Alliance?

>>46128121
You know if she hadn't gone all Death to the Living she probably could have asked for volunteers. I mean the existence of the Cult of the Damned shows that the idea of Undeath as eternal life is one that can catch on. Hell, there'd probably be people chomping at the bit for a chance to do more damage to Deathwing's shit after all the damage he caused. It's not like revival appears to be particularly common outside of the game mechanics. ..Actually has it happened anywhere but in Icecrown, lorewise?

remember the last time we put someone on trial for war crimes? WoD happened!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTWgfWgXXqI

>>46123927
>At one point he points out Vol'Jin was a hypocrite who backstabbed Garrosh and went treasonous way before Garrosh did anything wrong.

When? He made some threats, but those were only for when Garrosh was hated by the Horde. Killing a Warchief who fucks up is the norm, so all he really communicated was his lack of faith in Garrosh's chances.

>>46128121
I still have to wonder why they'd WANT to make more undead. This 'way of life' thing is bullshit, because how many forsaken still go on about it being a curse, that they hate their existence?

Why would they want to inflict that on others? Canonically, undead SHOULD be dying out. Just like DKs, there should be a finite number that is slowly dwindling. Which doesn't stop them from being a PC race.

Hell, belfs got their asses ripped back, their land plagued, and they were only just starting to rebuild their razed capital city, and they're still playable.

>We have to justify where the new undead PCs are coming from!
No, you really don't. You can have segregation of lore and game mechanics in places. Same as how PCs just have to corpse run to come back to life: Except to in-universe rules are made for the sake of playability.

>>46128145
>I didn't know about the gulag
Where do you think she spirited away Koltira Deathweaver to after his encounter with Thassarian in the Plaguelands?

>>46128145
undeath is a curse, no forsaken should ever be willing to visit that curse upon anybody else, even if only for the practical reason of realising that raising somebody else makes you the subject of the hatred you feel towards the lich king

>>46128145
>is anybody clean in WoW
Most non-Grimtotem Tauren, Vol'jin, most Darkspear trolls, Lor'themar, Drek'thar (I think), some of the minor Pandaria species, the Sporeggar, and a whole lot of other random NPC factions.

>>46128249
Up until about a week ago I'd only played Hearthstone so I'm catching up on a lot of lore.

Otherwise I'd made a Forsaken Monk to level 20 and chilled with Sylvanas for a while, so she seemed pretty cool.

>>46128121
Maybe because no one wants to become a fucking undead slave?

>>46128283
Play the worgen starting zone. Sylvanas plague bombs Gilneas against GARROSH'S orders. Meat-head, hard-on for war Garrosh. That says a lot.

>>46128145
>>46128278
Agreed. Of the playable races, the non-Grimtotem tauren and the Darkspear trolls are the only non-cunty races in the Horde.

>>46128312
"What's the difference between you and the Lich King, now?"
"Isn't it obvious? I serve the Horde."
"Watch your tongue, bitch."

>>46128244
>>46128273
I personally suspect that Sylvanas has rather more control over the mental state of the Forsaken than perhaps even she realizes. As she grew more inward focused, the Forsaken as a whole grew more focused on her. As she determined that she would require more subjects to protect her, the Forsaken's opinion on spreading undeath to the currently living changes.

>>46128312
Cata-era Garrosh and his Kor'krons also thought raising the dead via val'kyr is blasphemy and goes against the natural order.

>>46128337
It's a good explanation of post-Cata forsaken

Unfortunately it just makes them overall less appealing

I mean, what the hell is the point of free-willed undead if they DON'T HAVE FREE WILL?

>>46127415
>>46127461
Yeah, his actual death may have been lackluster, but I do hope that his capture at the Broken Shore is suitably fucking difficult for the Legion to pull off.

>>46127954
>>46127992
>>46128032
Banshees tend to only make one-way trips when it comes to possession. In WC3 you lost a banshee permanently when it posessed a unit, there was no getting it back (Which sorta sucked if you were experimentally possessing a peon or peasant in campaign mode to see if you got access to the build menu. [You do get access in the Sunwell level, but you can't build a barracks with it, however the ability to build turrets on roads makes the weak-to-ranged golems guarding the sunwell itself easy as shit, just build six elf defense towers and kite the fuckers into them. Yoou do NOT get them in the vs Blackrock level or the Dalaran level because they'd take all the challenge out of Dalaran if you could just build a non-undead army instead of carefully possessing high-value units and freeing caged beasts])
>>46128121
Freeing other undead?

>>46128244
The only only motivation she has had since Cata, based on her post Wrath story, is "I don't want to die and got to hell". She is doing everything in her power to build the biggest wall possible between her and that fate. Having a limitless amount of fodder and fanatically loyal undead minions is a good way to avoid getting randomly offed. The only reason she 'cares' about her Forsaken is cause they help protect her from getting killed in many ways.

Unless one of the not mind controlled ones shot-guns you in the head of course.

>>46128337
>more control over the mental state of the Forsaken than perhaps even she realizes
How much of that is due to actual mental influence is debatable. One of the quests in the starting zone involves killing a group of freshly revived forsaken who refused to swear allegiance to her. Granted, the quest-giver claimed that they were insane and some of the enemy dialogue supported that, but it's food for thought. How many undead did Sylvanas purge to create and maintain her base of political support? How many moderates and naysayers were liquidated over the years?

>>46128401
>>46128424
I viewed it as less total mental domination and more a degree of influence. Granted, it is still diminished will, and there are still undead who can throw it off (though as >>46128424 points out they're probably killed off), but day-to-day they're still at least mostly their own zombie.

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>>46128423
You can clearly see this in the Forsaken campaign in Silverpine, when a newly-raised Lord Godfrey betrays Sylvanas and fucking surprise-executes her in the back of the head with a gun before he disappears to Shadowfang Keep. The val'kyr entourage sacrifice themselves to bring Sylvanas back, and she had her second brush with the Nether and the endless dark that awakes her. This is one of the only times ever that Sylvanas is visibly shaken by something.

Sylvanas's mortality scares the fuck out of her, because she now knows for a fact what is waiting for her on the other side.

>>46128553
>because she now knows for a fact what is waiting for her on the other side.

Not just her, but all Forsaken, no?

>>46128178
Some APPRENTICE shaman actually revives her half eaten pile of bones mentor in the Borean Tundra.

(In the little Horde hut way to the north by the Sholazar entrance)

>>46128312
Garrosh also was the one who ordered her to go on the offensive when she was happy to just turtle in undercity.

He basically said "Go throw your meatshields to their death en-masse for my amusement" at which point she said "Fuck that I'm keeping my meatshields alive, we do this the easy (If horrific) way."

>>46128577
Kinda sucks, really. Most forsaken are unwillingly revived.

Like you could be revived and do nothing but good in life and after-life and still be sent to the Void.

>>46128577
She thinks it's all forsaken. It's equally likely that her own actions are what's sending her there.I mean even as far back as WCIII she wasn't afraid to do some pretty bad things in the name of seeking her vengeance.

>>46121788
If you dont have Gruul and his sons as AU versions of NE Ancients or something, ill be dissapointed.

Or even have some orcs go under their control for a Troll/Hakkar swap of sorts.

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whats your demon hunter name /tg/?

>>46128577
Not necessarily. The PC Forsaken, at least, are taken to the Shadowlands, where they can find a Spirit Healer (now confirmed by Chronicles to be renegade val'kyr sent to the Shadowlands against their will and trying to send people back to the realm of the living) and come back.

>>46128638

Danilli the Treacherous.

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>>46128638
Anung un Rama.

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>>46127248
>And that's why Forsaken fanboys are cancer.
I resent that.

I'm was such a fan of the Forsaken because they were undead who weren't EVIL and were trying to pick up the pieces of their broken lives. They were killed, brought back as undead, used to slaughter the rest of their people, finally broke free of the Lich King's control, but nobody likes them because they're undead now. At least they still get to channel their bitterness and thirst for vengeance at taking down the Lich King. Sylvanas and the Forsaken more than anybody else have a reason to want to see the Scourge wiped out.

I'm not happy to see them turn into "Lich Queen and the Scourge 2.0" after WotLK.

>>46128638
Dan.

>>46128655

I didn't realize that stuff had a lore explanation. I thought it was purely for gameplay purposes.

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>>46128702
IT DOES NOW.

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>>46128638
why do male NE have to have one of the worst models in the game? my only choices are male BE or female NE

>>46128774
Because men aren't allowed to be slender in WoW.

>>46128774
It's annoying as hell.

Every male NE looks like technicolored abraham lincoln, no matter what you do.

>>46128638
what music will you play while playing as one!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHsvnJ1NqO8

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>>46128793
well no the exact problem with male NE is that they are too slender. at least in the waist compared to their upper body

faggots arent allowed to respond to my posts

>>46128693
I genuinely liked the Forsaken as well before Cata went all derpy with their story. I feel like their story can be made good again if they just get the Lich Queen out of the leadership position and put up someone new. She doesn't need to be killed or anything, just shifted away.

>>46128423
I really think Sylvanas and the forsaken should've just faded into the background after Wrath, like DKs. They're still around, they still occasionally show up, but their main story is finished.

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>>46128828
>Demon energy is Getter rays

and now I want a giant robot to defeat the legion

>>46128577
No, there's absolutely nothing to indicate Sylvanus was "Punished" for being undead.

She was punished for being a horrible person. (OR the Val'kyr were rusing her.)

>>46128861
Honestly, all it would take for me is a story of a Forsaken happily reuniting with an Alliance family member. Even something as small as that would be enough for me. Surely not everyone in Azeroth is so heartless that they would turn away their flesh and blood simply because they're slightly less fleshy.

>>46128943
You have no idea how many times I've imagined my gnome warlock riding an abyssal like she's in Giant Robo.

>>46128943
Anything to counter the Fel Reavers that the Legion loved to use on Outland!

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>female night elves are so jelly of all the attention sex space goats get that they make pacts with demons to turn into one

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>>46129145
>Dat Blood Elf
Ultimate Warrior, is that you?

>>46129145
>tfw you will never fuck a space goat with huge boobs

>>46129076
I will NEVER forget the god damn sound those big bastards make.

>>46129145
I just want to make papa Illidan proud!

>>46129170
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXNvusFPsBQ

>>46128121
Except the literal thousands of undead that are wandering around Northrend with Bolvar's leash keeping them from going apeshit across Azeroth. She could start finding/freeing potentials from there rather than finding new ones, and I highly doubt Bolvar would be super pissed off about giving these cursed undead their free will back on a smaller scale.