Pathfinder General /pfg/

>>46078081
Hell's Vengeance was not letting us get the mahou shoujo transformation sequence on any class with a feat.````

I want to marry a kobold!

What class can keep an attendant controlled undead perpetually? Don't even care if it's good, I'm just making an NPC who keeps a buddy's animated corpse around at its spirit's behest.

>>46078081
I want to kill Cthulhu with a thrown supertanker from across the galaxy.

>>46078081
What the fuck is with his leg, he's twisting his upper body clockwise while kicking with his right leg, that's exactly the opposite of what you want to do to kick hard. Not to mention, his sword is turned 90 degrees from where it should be in his grip, his cloak is billowing in a bizarre way, and at that angle it looks like his right thigh is crushing his balls.

What the fuck.

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>>46078081

Let's dispel this notion that Paizo doesn't know what it's doing

Paizo knows exactly what it's doing

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>>46078081
Starting with something fun, a bonus trait you get when you swear your loyalty to House Thrune. Going to bet it gets better or levels up as you progress.

>>46078132
If it's just a plain unintelligent undead like a zombie or skeleton, the Command Undead spell is day/CL in duration, so any of the 9th-level Sorc/Wizard casters can do it, as can the Inevitable subdomain (why?) for Clerics. There's no save for unintelligent ones, either, and no total HD limit, you're just limited by spell slots really.

>>46078178

That sounds interesting. Hopefully it's not a "you hand over your character to the GM once you hit a certain level" kind of deal.

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>>46078178
Next up something to help start riots as a party of Thrune loyalist counter-revolutionaries. Side note, it's weaker than Ragespittle.

>>46078132
Spiritualist. Animate Dead for the corpse, the spiritualist phantom is the guy's spirit.

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Say fellas, I was planning on making pic related as a Cleric
What deity would suit him best?

>>46078132
Gravewalker Witch.

Their Bonethrall ability allows a save even for unintelligent undead, but lasts forever. Intelligent undead get a save once a day, but unintelligent ones are just yours until you let them go.

>>46078269
Caiden

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What would be the best class for a happy, energetic necromancer with a Dia de los Muertos skeleton dance party theme?

>>46078269
Cayden Cailean. Accidental god of heroism and drinking.

So a Mithril Golem Armor with a Steelbone Frame is essentially Iron Man, right?

I've seen a lot of archetypes and such focusing on going major-league mutagen as an alchemist and tearing shit apart, but what would the best options be if I wanted to focus on making a bombing/utility alchemist?

>>46078253

Now that seems like an efficient way to handle those banal peasant uprisings that happen now and again-gas the plebs with hatejuice and let them violently repress themselves.

>>46078301

>tfw you get drunk one night and wake up in bed with three goddess in Asgard

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>>46078253
Next up we've got a Brimstone Battle Buddy.

>>46078311
>golem armor
What's that?

>>46078347

This is literally why Paizo thinks Occupy failed lmao

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>>46078312
Trapbreaker is good. Cryptbreaker is also good, although reduces your bomb damage vs non constructs/corporeal undead.

Intrigue also gave us the Alchemical Sapper, which gets demolition bombs that do double damage and ignore an amount of hardness.

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Alright, so I want to make a Kitsune Gunslinging Magical Girl. So I'd want 1 level in Vigilante, 4 in Gunslinger (so I can get dex to hit and damage), what do I do with the rest? I feel like taking more then 4 levels in Gunslinger wouldn't be my best option.

>>46078178
>swear their bodies [...] to Queen Abrogail II herself.

L-lewd!

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>>46078362
How about a flaming hammer? As an added bonus, you can even masterwork your gear! With the magic hammer, that's better than your unenchanted masterwork gear.

>>46078380
>which gets demolition bombs that do double damage and ignore an amount of hardness

Yes, but they have a pretty harsh limit per day.

>>46078368
>Requirements: Craft Construct, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, animate objects, the construct modified must be the same size as the creator

>CR increase: +1

>Cost: 35,000 gp

>This modification allows the construct to be worn like armor by its creator. So long as the creator wears it, the construct performs no independent actions, remaining under the control of the creator, and any attacks directed at the wearer first damage the construct. When a construct is destroyed while serving as armor, the wearer loses all the benefits, but regains all the hindrances until the armor is removed, which takes the same amount of time that removing breastplate armor does. If the construct is still active, the creator can order the removal of the armor with a swift action, at which point the construct leaves the creator’s space and enters a space adjacent to the creator. Donning construct armor takes a full-round action if the construct is still active. The creator cannot don a construct with this modification if the construct has been destroyed. The construct’s wearer retains his base attacks and saves. Construct armor counts as breastplate armor for purposes of determining AC, weight, Dexterity modifiers to AC, and chance of arcane spell failure.

>>46078400
>magical girl
>gunslinger

The Gunslinger class is terrible at being a good gunslinger, actually.

Take a look at the gunsmoke mystic archetype for the Path of War Expanded mystic class. It totally fits for a magical girl.

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>>46078299
Gravewalker Witch with the Enchantment or Insanity patron.

>>46078421
PoW is 3rd party isn't it? That's pretty frowned upon at my table sadly.

>>46078407
It does, but it's still cool.

Plus if you really need to, you can spend 4 normal bombs to make a demo bomb as a trip mine.

I mean it's 4 bombs, but if you need MORE buildings knocked down...

>>46078435
Why? Whyyyyyy?

>>46078452
DM is very 'If it's not source I don't want it' kind of person.

>>46078465
Hit that person with a baseball bat until they start behaving properly.

>>46078452
Honestly, blame the PFSRD for ensuring that so many people's first glimpse of 3pp is garbage like Kobold Press and Super/Rogue Genius. It's a hell of a bad impression.

>>46078452
Because third party stuff has traditionally been overpowered mechanically broken crap designed to fulfill that guy's fetish fantasy.

Its not the DMs fault that Path of War isnt that.

>>46078476
Now now.

Just because someone doesn't want to use PoW doesn't make them deserving of assault and battery.

>>46078491
Yes it does.

>>46078481

Blame /pfg/ for ensuring that so many people's first-glimpse of 3pp is garbage like DSP. It's a hell of a bad impression

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>>46078404
Also look at this fucking thing. Just look at it You fight that.

>>46078435
You literally aren't going to be able to make a non-terrible gunslinger using 1PP.

The reason gunsmoke mystic comes up whenever people talk about gunslingers here isn't really because it's PoW (though that helps), it's because it gets to sidestep the worst part of the guns mechanics (reloading times, misfires). All the 1PP gun stuff is dragged down by that.

>>46078490
>Its not the DMs fault that Path of War isnt that.
Except it is. In a fun way, but still.

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>>46078500
tsk tsk, anon.

Do you want to be the one accusing people of wrongthink? Because that's what you're doing.

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>>46078519

No, you don't fight that

That's the wrong one

>>46078538
Parts of path of war are broken, by accident rather than by design, and only broken in that sense that "too much damage".

>>46078533
So where can I find this Gunsmoke Mystic? Anyone have a PDF or something I can look at?

>>46078533

My biggest problem with 1PP guns is they don't take a minute+ to reload

>>46078564
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/177763/Path-of-War-Expanded

>>46078577
>thinking that characters who can kool-aid man through adamantine walls or stop time should be limited to minute-long reload times

>>46078563
I would add a "too tough to kill" on top of that. Damn some of those classes are durable as fuck. Has anyone optimized a PoW class for defense?

>>46078563
Even then, a straightforward blender barbarian is in the same class. Just way more boring about it.

>>46078561

Repostan for new thread.

>>46078490
My fetish is useful fighting men, PoW fulfills it just fine.

>>46078577
Then they'd be worthless, well, MORE worthless. You can't apply realism whenever you feel like it when it isn't applied to other things.

>>46078599
Thing is with PoW it has a high floor.

And so for people to be able to stand up, it has to have that much higher of a ceiling.

>>46078577
1pp guns also include shit like revolvers. Shit that DOES reload in less than a second if you know what you're doing.

>>46078613
Honestly, Bushi isn't that great for Warder or Warlord, Stalker gets the most from it.

>>46078639

1pp guns also includes tank-mounted artillery pieces and machine guns

>>46078654
Bushi ZS 6 is great breakpoint. Get soulknife 4 or aegis 3 / psion 1 and go into awakened blade.

>>46078755
On the other hand, bushi brutal slayer 6 is great too.

>>46078589

That's not what I meant but okay... guess I'll set aside money see if I can get it sometime in the next six months.

>>46078577
My big problem is that after all the fuss about reload times and misfire, Paizo still hasn't seen fit to make bracers of pistols a workable/common thing. JUST LET ME HOLSTER AS A FREE ACTION YOU SHITS, IT'S ALL I NEED.

>>46078795
>That's not what I meant
You might want to research previous thread or two then.

>>46078354

Literally the only time I remember hearing Cayden banging a woman was when he cuckolded a Duke in Taldor.

Also his herald, who wears the pants in the relationship and seems to do more than Cayden himself.

>>46078896
>Also his herald, who wears the pants in the relationship and seems to do more than Cayden himself.
I mean, if you're a god why not kick back and relax? Have your minions, I mean clerics do all your bidding for you. That's their job, not yours.

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>>46078927
>implying that worshippers will ever do anything more than freeload
>implying they have any loyalty to you, rather than to the powers you grant them undeservedly

>>46078424
Pinky a shit and they should go Juju Oracle.

>>46078312
Bump Int as high as you can, take Force Bombs, Fast Bombs and the Stinking Cloud/Confusion bombs. ASAP. Get a Tumor Familiar because why not. Go Preservationist with the Planar Preservationist feat and/or Promethean Alchemist if you want your DM to throw things at you. Carry around flasks to throw when you need to save bombs. Use your extracts for utility.

>>46078616

So what, you get all giddy when someone's playing a Zweihander Sentinel?

>>46078312
>>46078992
do this and give your monkey famillair poiseners gloves. Buff your friends with your infusions inside those gloves.

>>46078927

I wish that was the case, it reads more like Cayden is an ineffectual idiot and his herald picks up the slack, all the while criticizing him for it.

So I want a bloodrager Lich to be a BBEG. Suggestions on build? I'm leaning undead bloodline but it might be redundant.

>>46079034
He just wanted a cute tsundere, I can't blame him.

>>46079002
No anon, fetish can refer to extreme obsessions, often extreme to an irrational degree, about anything. Maybe he's just REALLY into PoW.

That or he has a voodoo idol made out of the hardcover book, since that's also a definition of 'fetish'.

>>46079038
>undead
>moral bonuses
uhhh....this works?

>>46079064
For one npc statted up somewhere. That one npc says it gets the rage morale bonuses, but nothing else is ever stated about it.

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>>46079064
Monster Codex created precedent that undead with rage are just allowed to have all the benefits despite their immunities and not-having-Con. No justification, just an ability showing up out of nowhere.

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>>46079054
>That or he has a voodoo idol made out of the hardcover book, since that's also a definition of 'fetish'.
I only have stolen PDFs, and this image I made a while ago. If I print it, would it count?

>>46079064
>Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms).
>morale effects

Whatever their faults paizo run some pretty cool games

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Is there any good way to increase the duration of oracle mysteries usable for X time units per day?

Pondering an Oracle of Waves with the Wolf-Scarred Face curse fluffed as shark features and using Liquid Travel to survive in the ocean... but it doesn't let you breath water until 7th level and the duration is never quite enough to stay under 24/7.

I know there are a few races with natural swim speeds and can breath water, but I'd really prefer the theme of getting it from the class.

>>46078424
Is she bouncing a dude's dick, or what? I thought that chick was suppose to be the maincharacter of Madoka, is she under a spell or is it an evil protagonist ala Death Note?

>>46079184
>evil giggles.gif
Well fuck if I know, anon.

>>46078400
If you're a Kitsune, why not just one-drop Mysterious Stranger Gunslinger for Cha to damage and then go Warlock Vigilante or a Cha based full caster or something?

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>>46079167
Picrelated, or just cast extended http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/planar-adaptation ... except you can't cast adaptation to plane of water when on prime material. Infinite water breathing is clearly too OP to be handed to players.

>>46079146
I chuckled.

>>46078654
>>46078755
Why isn't it great?

>>46079167
Duration? Not that I know of. Uses per day? The Abundant Revelations feat grants you one extra use of any revelation restricted to X uses per day. Generally probably not worth it, though.

>9th-level Superstitious Totem Warrior Barbarian as the endboss for a one-shot
>party is all 5th-level

I think I'm gonna slap maybe 4 Primal Fury maneuvers onto this guy, just to make it even less fair. A brief question, though.

Does the "Quick Runner's Shirt = 1/day pseudo-Pounce" thing actually work?

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So I sent an email to dsp's gofundme email account that they set up and I haven't heard anything.

I just want my flower discipline from Elric.

I have so many ideas for like a martial tradition and stuff.

>>46078141

He looks like he's having a fantastic time though. I kind of love that face.

"OH MY GOD THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER, GUYS YOU HAVE TO TRY THIS"

>>46079406
I just got home from work. Gimme a chance to relax a bit and get some dinner OK?

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All this talk about Ultimate Intrigue and none about Inner Sea Faiths?

Particularly fond of one spoiler in particular: Sivanah's herald is a goddamn TRUMPET ARCHON. An archon whose hobby is hijacking summon spells cast by Kuthonites, showing up in disguise, and then revealing its true form at the worst possible moment.

Also, Naderi has both agathions and daemons fighting over who gets to serve her, and that's hilarious.

>>46079395
Yes. Unless its PFS. Then no, the shirt is banned.

>>46079301
First, look at what the Warlord gives up:
Two bonus feats and tactical presences. Remember, however, that tactical presences are permanent effects that can be placed upon each other, and that there's stuff that is incredibly powerful like Warning Presence (Helps with surprise rounds) or Gladiator Presence (Basically gives improved combat maneuver feats to your whole party), plus the ability to effectively recover a maneuver as move action 1/round and free action at 6th. However, the Warlord's Gambits are already considerably powerful and extremely efficient at maneuver recovery. EWP is useless unless you want to use the specified weapons, as there are martial ones that are mechanically better in most situations.
Benevolence is a less effective Victory Presence, Courage is effectively a weaker Rallying Presence as powerful nonmagical fear effects aren't generally into enemy builds, and Honor isn't particularly useful considering that you should be shredding things already. Respect becomes useless with Tactical Assistance.
Warder:
By trading out both Heavy Armor Prof and Clad in Steel, the Warder effectively ends up losing AC and will need to invest into compensating for the ACP. Honesty and Courage, the two Bushidos that would help the Warder, conflict with the Warder's heavy Counter usage in terms of action economy.
OTOH, allowing the Stalker to not need to use his honestly terrible maneuver recovery method at the price of just a minor effect and a single stalker art is more than worth it.

>>46079263
Yeah, no PoW I'm afraid, and the spell takes even longer to get, with the same duration.

>>46079307
I suppose I can ask if I could take that and add to the Hours/day as if they were uses at least.

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>>46079467
I understand.

I've just been looking forward to using the discipline in my planescape game since you mentioned being really enthused about making it. I hate making a nuisance of myself, I really do. But I also despise waiting. About as much as a love cool stuff - and I really love cool stuff.

So eat. Eat heartily and drink. Drink and make merry.

>>46079474
So is Sivanah second best god or what?
Best is Zyphus

>>46079467
Were we supposed to include what we wanted out of our commission or just as 'heads up, I'm a person' email?

>>46079474
>Sivanah
>trumpets
D-does Paizo actually know about WotRgate and that one theory about Iomedae?

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>>46079478
My players are going to /hate/ me.

>>46079474
>Trumpet Archon
>making everything worse for people by trolling
Sivannah confirmed for causing Trumpetgate

>>46079576
Its better if you include the commission

>>46078380
>Double damage
>Cannot apply ANY discoveries to them
>Can only throw one per turn
>Actually setting the mines uses up a fucking HUGE number of uses for no reason at all
Yeah nah

>>46078838
But that exists. Gun Twirling.

So I've been thinking of making some quickstart class builds for my group and adding PoW material to coax them into accepting 3pp, but I'm rather new to the system myself.

What are good, basic concepts I can design around and which schools/maneuvers would I use for them?

So lads, I wants a Steelfist Commando since they seem like the only really viable unarmed build and because I think warlord is cool. What's the best way to build these?

>>46079723
He did say workable, and I wouldn't really call a tax of 4-5 feats (which don't synergize at all; Dazzling Display as a prereq for a feint feat WTF) workable for any build.

>>46079725
I'd suggest a smug nobleman Warlord (Throne/Lion) and a more professional mercenary Stalker (Veiled Moon/Steel Serpent). Don't go for the direct damage maneuvers, as early level these might cause your group to think of PoW as overpowered-this is a balance issue that devs have said will be corrected in an incoming errata, instead go for cool stuff like ST's Scything Strike or VM's Disturbing Blow.

>>46079697
You can't use fast bombs discovery with it. Any other discovery is fine. Why else would you get delayed bomb at first level? It's meant to be a Sapper to the truest sense of the word.

>>46079820
Except you can't, fuckass. Read the damn ability. It says that it counts as a discovery that modifies bombs, and SPECIFICALLY calls out you not being able to use other discoveries on it.

>>46078380
>Demolition Bomb
>Can't even destroy a dagger at first level
Into the trash it goes

>>46079802
Hardly 4-5. Two more like, if I recall correctly.

>>46079940
Weapon Focus, Dazzling Display, Quick Draw, Gun Twirling itself, and then Amateur Gunslinger if you don't have grit (like if you're a Savage Technologist)

>>46079241
The cha to damage costs grit.

>>46078380
Ignoring some portion of hardness would be neater if the hardness didn't get to apply to the damage twice, once to the physical half and once to the fire half.

Why do people ever think "treat this damage as half X and half Y" is ever useful? Even when one half is some kind of special damage that can't be resisted, what's the point if the other half CAN be resisted?

>>46080001

Also, isn't hardness doubled against energy damage?

>>46079154
Damn fucking straight

>>46080001
Not only that but since half is fire damage:
"Energy attacks deal half damage to most objects. Divide the damage by 2 before applying the object's hardness."

The damage gets halved again.

>>46079600
Keep in mind, can only do it 1/day. Unless you have multiple shirts.

>>46079977
Is quick draw really a tax for ranged combatants?

>>46079818
Pretty sure even if you DO go for the damage increasing SS maneuvers, it'll still be mediocre. Which is a damn shame, because I adore the Ordre des Repas Exotiques so fucking much. Literally Dungeon Meshi Dwarf: the Martial Tradition.

>>46080050
For throwing weapon builds, maybe not, but you can draw ammunition as a free action already, so why would a bow/crossbow/gun user bother with it?

>>46079993
The Dex to Damage costs taking levels in Gunslinger. That seems like a fair trade.

>>46080033
It is. So if you ignore 1 hardness for an object with 3, the fire damage is still going to have to deal with 4 or 5 depending on how you stack it.

>>46080070
To draw your weapons? So you can full attack on the first round?

>>46080099
Why wouldent you have your bow out?

>>46080110
What, you have your weapons out all the time?

>Kitsune Magical Girl

If this is the cutest thing for girls, what is the hunkiest things for guys? Chosen Ones?

>>46079766
Depends really on if you want to be a Str or Dex Commando. However, any feats that you'd normally grab for a Monk, like Jabbing or Outslug style, should work well. Dragon Style can also work well

>>46080038
He'll only need once to set the tone of this battle.

>>46080152
Str. I don't actually know how to build a monk as far as feats go, I never thought they were worth building. I can handle stats and gear fine, though. Do style feats work with maneuvers?

>>46080147
Historically speaking, it was not uncommon for people to carry their swords openly when on an expedition. Same goes for stuff like spears, bows, etc. If one expected reason to use a weapon, you wouldn't sheath it.

There is no reason to think that adventurers would be different in dungeons.

>>46080283
Plus, it's not like you can actually 'sheath' a spear. It'd be like having a walking stick, you'd always have it ready anyway.

>>46080151
Uber Barbarian or Sexual Paladin.

>>46080283
Wandering around a city during the day? Probably don't want to accidentally decapitate small children playing in the street.

Wandering the damp hallways of an ancient tomb? Why the fuck WOULDN'T you have your weapon out? The children are centuries old zombies in there!

>>46080151
Lashunta

>>46080246
Yes, they do.
For a Str based, go Dragon Style to add more of your Str bonus on unarmed strikes.
Since you also got bonus feats and CMB bonuses, I suggest either gowing Trip or Punishing Kick combined with Viscous Stomp, or go grappling and grab the Throat Slitter line

>>46080333
Pretty much.

>>46080301
Indeed. That's also why spears tended not to be the "sidearm" of choice. Swords could be sheathed in polite company, spears really can't; you're always a visible danger with a naked weapon.

Stuff to bear in mind when thinking about setting details and interactions between adventurers and societies.

>>46079656
Alright, sent an updated rambling commission request. I'll reel in my spaghetti if need me.

>>46080350
Thanks, anon.

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Hi I'm playing unchained swashbuckler (fencer archtype) at level one along with that my GM is allowing me to take martial training from PoW so I can learn stuff from scarlet throne.

So due to all the bonus feats I'm unsure on what to learn as a feat after level one I picked up combat expertise at level one because I needed that to use improved disarm (that I got as a bonus) . So now I'm looking at some feats and the ones that stand out the most is signature deed (if my gm allows me to take it at 11 level) dodge and dueling cape deed.

My next question would be is should I muti-class into something? I this is my first time playing so I'm not sure on what else would work well I don't really care for magic but if its necessary to not fall behind I do it.

>>46078424
Laughing witch Madoka go back to MGNQ threads.

>>46080283
Bullshit.

The only sword that was carried openly were swords like the smallsword and cinquedea, shit like claymores weren't.

And carrying around a shield was a big no-no, it was basically a way to telegraph you were looking for a fight.

>>46080570
You have high dex so consider Combat Reflexes. It lets you hit people who move around you or try to cast spells near you. Normally you can do it, but only once a turn, this lets you do it more than once a turn.

>>46080589
[ C I T A T I O N N E E D E D ]

>>46080589
>If one expected reason to use a weapon

Adventurers are superhuman. Carrying a claymore in a dungeon without sheathing it just makes SENSE if it's your weapon.

>>46080570
>unchained swashbuckler
Pardon?

>>46080598
I have that as a bonus feat honestly I get a lot of them for free I list them off real fast I should had did that in the first post sorry.
Fencing Grace, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Lunge, Serpent Lash Weapon Focus

Can the Mystic's Mystic Artifice ability be used to replicate spells used in spell trigger and spell completion items? Normally you can't skip spellcasting prerequisites for those, but the ability let's them make a check to create the item as if she had cast the spell.

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>>46080627
I saw it show up here and my gm seemed to be ok with it

>>46080667
Do you get any methods of feinting for free? If so Greater Feint could be good for setting up an easy full attack.

Critical Focus and the crit line of feats can be somewhat interesting. Disarming Strike lets you disarm on crits.

I'm not really good at picking out good feats.

>>46080875
You can always fall back on Dodge and Toughness. Swashbucklers aren't the sturdiest of martials, so a bit more survivability is worth a feat..

>>46080875
>Do you get any methods of feinting for free?
I don't think but at 8 I get Greater Feint but I will look into disarming strike

>>46080936
>You can always fall back on Dodge and Toughness
>>>/paizo/

>>46080602
If you're interested I'd highly recommend reading some Geoffrey Chaucer, the idea of carrying around knightly swords and shields is poked fun at numerous times.

>>46080694
Looking this over, it seems Dex to damage would be something wise to get.
Deadly Agility is one way, or if using a Rapier get Fencing Grace.

Which weapon style are you taking?

>>46080936
Yeah I planed to get dodge +1 ac sounds nice. but toughness sounds pretty great too so I add that on to the list too

>>46081043
Do not ever take those feats. Jesus christ, man.

>>46081041
Fencer so I get
>>46080667
that set of feats along with that I have weapon finesse so I get my dex as damage for free when using the rapier.

I was thinking about getting deadly agility to use a estoc because its one of the weapons I can use as the fencer but I'm not sure if that's a good idea.

>>46081062
But I need dodge to get spring attack so I can getr whirlwind!

>>46080694
Given the existence of the Bushi class template and the Mixed Combat feats/Improved Quickdraw, it seems like this honestly ought to just grant some of those to the Bushido version instead.

>>46081106
Bonus Feats
At 4th level, and every four levels thereafter,
a swashbuckler may choose a bonus feat
from her swashbuckler style bonus feats,
even if she does not meet the prerequisites.
You dont get all of them, thats the LIST you pick from.

>>46081062
Then mind giving me a few suggestions?

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So what are the cosmetic limits to what the spell "Spite" can do? Basically the group I'm DM'ing is running around doing errands for a greedy duke. I've been describing the guy as just an absolute tub of lard, bigger from side to side than he is top to bottom. Eventually the group might find some information on this guy that proves he's not so clean as he's made himself out to be and when one of my martial players strike him his Spite goes off, which has Touch of Slime on it. Basically I imagine his fat body is actually his defensive ward, and when he gets stabbed Slime just starts oozing out onto the blade climbing up the players arm as it seeps out from all of his body, eventually leaving him normal size and the player being eaten alive by green ooze. Suddenly this seemingly physically harmless duke reveals himself to be a powerful caster

>>46081159
Power Attack, Furious Focus, if you REALLY need a to-hit boost then nab Weapon Focus. Find what you want to focus on offensively and do that. Spending feats on defensive shit before your offense is up is basically useless, because the best way to live in the system is to make sure the enemy is dead.

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>>46081152
OK so I knew something was wrong given that I asked my GM if my sheet was fine and he say it was ok. but it looks like I need talk to him about this now WELP

>>46081188
that's very nice senpai now stop posting your fetishes/plot where you players can see them

>>46081223
Why everything gotta be a fetish with y'all? A nigga can't think of ways to unnerve his players?

>>46079474
Did anybody post pages from Inner Seas Faiths? If not most people won't have any idea about its contents because we don't pay Paizo for their garbage.

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>>46081288
>Why everything gotta be a fetish with y'all?
Because nobody on /pfg/ has had an original thought since they found pic attached.

>>46081220
Ok so I have some editing to do now I was pretty sure something was wrong clearly I didn't look hard enough. Then my level 1 feat will be fencing grace.

I still -should- get weapon finesse and combat reflexes because of using the weapon within that style

>>46081015
>>46080602
>Order to arrest and imprison until further order for their deliverance all those who shall be found going armed within the town, [...] no man of whatsoever estate or condition shall be bold to appear armed before the justices or the other king’s ministers in performance of their office [...] ride or go armed by day or night in fairs and markets or elsewhere in presence of justices etc. under pain of losing his arms and of imprisonment"
>proclamation to be made forbidding any man of whatsoever estate or condition to make unlawful assemblies within the town and suburbs of Suthwerke, to go armed, girt with sword or arrayed with other unusual harness, to carry with him arms, swords or harness aforesaid
>That no one, of whatever condition he be, go armed in the said city or in the suburbs, or carry arms, by day or by night, except the vadlets of the great lords of the land, carrying the swords of their masters in their presence
Ad nauseam

>>46081288
I wasn't sure whether it was a fetish or not so I covered my bases.

>>46081394
>thinking anyone was ever original
Newfag detected.

>>46081428
I was mostly asking about the shield bit, but that's nice, too.

Are any of the DSP guys around? I had this mostly answered last night, but no one linked the FAQ, so I figure I'll repost the question.
If a Warder's Tactical Acumen interacts with an Inquisitor's Cunning Initiative to make the Initiative calculation Int+Wis, does an Ordained Defender get Wis+Wis? Neither specifies a bonus type, and I couldn't find the statement that said that untyped bonuses from the same stat can't stack.

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I feel like building a Bloodrager with the Draconic bloodline that focuses on using the claws it gets at level one. Would it be better to go with the Bloody-Knuckled Rowdy or Rageshaper Archetype? BKR seems like a nice way to increase the claws' damage with some bonus Style feats, though I don't know if it's worth losing fast movement along with fewer spells (granted I suppose I wouldn't be casting much anyhow). On the other hand Rageshaper's Bestial Aspect and Furious Transformation seem to meld well with the whole "transform into a dragon" shtick. I doubt it's the most optimal way of doing things but it all sounds interesting.

>>46081521
According to paizuri you are unable to make your rolls stats X+X. But the general consensus is 'Fuck Paizo'

>>46081670
Well, you can't have stat to x twice, you can have stat to x and Stat as insight (morale, profane etc..) as a stat. But yeah, fuck paizo because that decision was stupid.

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>>46081669
Why be a coward and play Bloodrager? Be a man and go for the full on Dragon Disciple Sorceror/Barbarian!

>>46081714
Post the build reee

>>46081670
Yeah, people were saying that last night. I was mostly hoping that someone would link a source for it, since I couldn't dig it up myself.

>>46081714
Well Dragon Disciple is the end goal. Wouldn't going Bloodrager also help progress my bloodline faster than flip-flopping between Sorc and Barb? What exactly am I missing out on by not multiclassing and just going with the hybrid?

>>46081747
http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9sgk

Lazy, all you had to do was google pathfinder FAQ.

>>46081714
I only play sorcerer for the breath weapon, flight, and energy immunity. Plus it's fun being skilled without having to try.

Could someone post that monk archetype page for Ultimate Intrigue again?

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>>46081874

>>46081901
Thank you very much.

>>46081771
I saw that, but Tactical Acumen isn't a bonus. It replaces Dex with Wis.

Oh leakbros, they got the Research System in?

>>46081947

The leak thread mostly gave us the archetypes, if I recall.

Anyone got the rest of Ancestral Aspirant or the Spiritualist archetypes from UI?

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>want to shitpost about something related to pathfinder
>nothing interesting enough to shitpost about
>can't think of anything worth trying to homebrew, looking at what I have simply reminds me that it's shit
>can't find another group I want to join, or one that even allows 3pp
>group I am in has been slow as fuck
>GM ran out of steam for doing anything on the side

So how's /pfg/ been doing, having fun with your campaigns? Anything good happen recently?

>>46078412
>>46078311
Pretty much, but I prefer Animated Mirthal Armor with Fusing (psionic enchantment), granted intelligence and flight selected as it's intelligent power. Which is actually doable within mid level finances.

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Quick question for you, /pfg/: do spell-like abilities that read "functions as X" count for the same as "can cast X as a spell-like ability"?

I'm super disappointed in the Magical Child, but I'm trying to revive my dreams via the Tyrant Antipaladin using Summon Guardian Spirit with Diabolic Boon to have a mighty outsider friend protecting my dark magical girl.

>>46082126
Homebrew something based along the mother cyst line from Libris Mortis!

>>46082191
Nope.

>>46082191
Don't see how it wouldn't, as long as it's (Sp) and not (Su).

>>46082226
[citation needed]

How many gadgets/implements does the Psychometrist end up with? The wording is kinda confusing me.

>>46081901
>Black Asp's Path
>doesn't count as Poison Use
Dadgommit Paizo!
Also, Sage Counselor sucks ass.

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>mfw thinking of character for Glory to Taldor campaign
>mfw I realize Amanandar was never accounted for among the applications
>mfw I realize I could play a slick Eastern knight with a level 9 cohort Sorceress/Oracle (Wrecking Mysticism) Kitsune wife

What is the best combination for a level 11 gestalt if I want to maximize the martial/caster power couple?

>>46082532
Oradin to protect your that fluffy tail?

>>46078081

You're supposed to take the pig out of the pigskin before playing merican football with it.

>>46082391
It is kinda confusing, but here goes:

At 2nd level, you gain your first implement school, and get the base power only from that school.

At 6th level, you gain two powers. Either two powers from the old school, or one from the old school and the base power from a new school.

At 12th level, you gain two or three powers. If you have three schools, you're getting a new base power, plus one for each old school. If you only have two schools, you're only getting one new base and one old. If you have one, you're getting two old.

At 18th... fuck it, nobody plays to 18th, I'm not typing that shit.

TL;DR going diverse will get you slightly more powers in the long run, but going specific will fill out one school much faster.

>>46082191
>>46082226
>>46082270
it used to be fine

then Paizo went and "clarified" it

>>46082587
Laces out.

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>>46079474
You want a better spoiler?

Achaekek: James Jacobs
Sivanah: Jessica Price
Gyronna: Crystal fucking Frasier

RIP in Peace good minor deities.

Pic related probably has a fucking dick she's trying to get rid of.

>>46082772

I was about to complain about that cleric of the CE goddess of hags having a child, but apparently that baby isn't having the best day in her arms.

Plus she's got the pointy ears of a half-elf, and that baby's human.

>>46082772

>James Jacobs is Milani
>Jessica Price is Sarenrae
>Crystal Frasier is Arshea

Fixed.

>>46082818
The only way this image could make any sense is if she's going to sacrifice that baby in a ritual to make herself old and haggard.

>>46082843
No friend, those are the people who are writing about/butchering those deities in Inner Sea Faiths.

>>46082843
>the Three Douchelleros
>good
Top Kek

>>46082772
>Pic related probably has a fucking dick she's trying to get rid of.
Of course she does, does it look like she's happy to have that little shit in her arms?

>>46082887
>No friend, those are the people who are writing about/butchering those deities in Inner Sea Faiths.

Oh, I thought you were going by what each developer would identify with.

I'm now kind of terrified, since I can't imagine Crystal will write Gyronna without making her somehow sympathetic.

>>46082924

Gyronna is pretty much the goddess of castration and man-hate, she's absolutely going to cut off that little twerp's balls and use 'em in alchemy.

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>>46082924

>>46082772
You're freaking out over literally nothing. There's nothing to fear from SJWs writing evil deities, they'll only make them sympathetic if anything. And before anyone says it, fuck you, everyone knows Sivanah's TN is the evilest alignment there is.

>>46083002
Watching them brutalize LG and CG is like watching a trainwreck, you can't help but watch.

>>46078142
What's that picture supposed to mean?

Is it a good idea to take a 2 level dip into Inquisitor as a Bolt Ace? I see a lot of benefit from it in terms of utility spells and front-loaded class features, but the BAB hit seems like a deterrent.

>>46078577

Here's a video of some skilled real life guy shooting a musket three times and reloading twice in 46 seconds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&v=SJMbxZ1k9NQ&NR=1

A normal-ass real life soldier was expected to do three shots a minute under combat conditions, maybe four in drills if they were working their ass off.

Any bullshit high fantasy hero should be able to exceed that through sheer power of high fantasy bullshit, same as they're capable of all sorts of other extraordinary things.


I think muskets should be treated like the commoner's weapon they are. Fairly cheap, simple weapon proficiency, full round reload by default, a big damage die, and maybe hits against flat footed AC in the first range increment. Maybe make undersized musketballs a special ammunition that makes loading and firing the weapon possible in one round at the price of dropping the damage die by a size or two reducing the range increment. Maybe also apply a penalty to hit.

One of the biggest reasons guns were adopted centuries ago was because they were relatively cheap from a logistical standpoint. making them, of course, took some specilaized knowledge, equipment, and skilled labor, but the ammunition was just lead balls, which is a hell of a lot easier to make than bolts and arrows that fly straight when you shoot them, and gunpowder is mostly, (or if necessary, entirely) made from horse shit and charcoal, two things a medieval culture is in no short supply of.

The other big reason is that they don't need much strength to use, less even than a crossbow with a windlass, so you could train a bunch of peasant shitters to use them even if they don't lift.

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>>46083061
B-but guns can be good! It makes the wizard look bad!

>>46083112
*cant, I'll be over in the bad typing skills corner

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>>46081947
I'm back just to give you what you want!

1/5

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>>46078577
>>46083061
I actually wrote a homebrew thing for this not too long ago. Take a look at it and tell me what you think.

For note: this was meant to inject a little additional amount of realism and potentially make crossbows and/or guns useful, not necessarily bypass the dominance of longbows. It was also written pretty much stream of consciousness, so it's not super well-designed.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eFs3zDCRZcOPbIe0zVXqm_NbDrqcFzjd4kdTe-QU86A/edit

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>>46083133

2/5

>>46083112
B-but guns didn't exist when Knights did!

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>>46083158

3/5

>>46083133
Jesus christ it's already garbage.
>Instead of just going to a library and making a knowledge check with a bonus, you get to make A WHOLE BUNCH of knowledge checks to learn incrementally more information for basically NO REASON!
>Now Knowledge checks are "combat" too, and as usual, the Wizard is the best at it!

>>46083170
Bullshit. There's a reason bulletproofing plate armor was a thing. There's even records of some blacksmiths making dents in the armor they made to fake it being bulletproof.

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>>46083180

4/5

>>46083194
Sarcasm bro, sarcasm.

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>>46083196

5/5

>>46083194

Anon he's being sarcastic, knights were arguably at their most iconic when firearms were a thing (the imagery of a knight in Gothic plate came from the 16th century.)

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>>46083214
Fuck, I completely missed it.

>>46083194
They really did that? That's hilarious, tell me more.

>>46083047
It means alchemists can't have nice things.

>>46083236
Of course alchemists can have nice things, why do you think they get ninth level spells, a familiar, and a bunch of bonus feats and discoveries. It only costs them one skill point per level.

>>46083228
>That's hilarious, tell me more.

Did you know college students during the Middle Ages were just as obnoxious as they are in the modern day?

>>46083133
Anon can we get the archetypes for Bard, Inquisitor or Rogue? In particular I'm interested in Master of Disguise and Masked Performer.

>>46083170

IIRC, primitive guns showed up in Europe (Spain) around the mid to late 1200s, and were definitely present by the early 1300s predating full plate armor, which showed up in recognizable form around 1420. The classic archetypical knight in shining armor has never existed in a time when there weren't guns.

>>46083248
That I did know! There was some riot at Oxford over beer that led to a bunch of people getting killed and the mayor of the town having to pay tithe to the college.

>>46078142
>>46083047
>>46083236
>>46083247
Can we just address the fact that the Metamorph archetype is the exact same name as one of DSP's oldest shapeshifting-oriented PrC's?

This is just being blatantly assholish.

>>46083222
Can we get a look at the feats and new magic/alchemical items in the book? I heard those were pretty cool.

>>46083471
Which prestige class is that? I'm not up to snuff on DSP material.

>>46083196

>Libraries full of glyphs and exploding runes and fire traps.

Like, that's kind of cool, but what kind of asshole rigs his library to explode?

Maybe just actually hide the books with sensitive information, and not have curious houseguests open the wrong tome and burn the house down?

>>46083602
It's PsiUnleashed levels of old.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-prestige-classes/metamorph

>>46083610
Of course, you rig the books you don't care about with explosive runes. Your real library is in a hidden chamber in another section of the building, everything else is a decoy.

>>46083133
>>46083180
>>46083158
>>46083222
>>46083196

Knowledge (Martial) initiating libraries when

>>46083002
>There's nothing to fear from SJWs writing evil deities, they'll only make them sympathetic if anything.

Why would I not worry about that?

>>46082532
Man, I was so hype for building for that game, but I got into the Hell's Vengeance one and decided that it'd just be better to focus on that game I did get in, rather than a HUGELY involved one I might not.

Still probably gonna read it after he picks his 6+ players, because goddamn it sounds hype.

>>46083692
Because sympathetic villains can lead to awesome games. Whether or not the villains are entirely sympathetic, or paizo fucks it up, it doesn't change that they'll put at least a good few written things in there.

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>>46083133
>>46083158
>>46083180
>>46083196
>>46083222

Finally, rules for playing Conan the Librarian

>>46083655
Given that the second page says you can use non-Intelligence skills when they're relevant, that's.. pretty simple to do! Let initiators research with their initiation mod!

>>46083616
To be fair, its a port of a 3.5 Psionic PrC, DSP doesn't have any claim to it

>>46083721
I don't need my representations of LE and CE as a metaphysical force to be "sympathetic." These aren't the confused assassins who believe the killings they are committing are just, or the damaged children who were molded into monsters, these are the immortal forces DOING THE MOLDING. Gyronna shouldn't be sympathetic, she should be an awful piece of shit as they've always portrayed her. Achaekek isn't even a person so much as it is a force of death.

>>46083471
Never ascribe to malice that which can be ascribed to incompetence.

>>46083808
By that metric Paizo doesn't have claim to core either, since it's not exactly the same as the 3.5e version.

>>46083831
Generally, though, having view points that people can agree with would help explain why people follow those beings.

What's general consensus about Magical Child? Too gimmicky to be functional? Usable? Which role can it fill?

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>>46083866
Some people are just assholes, and the viewpoints they follow are those of even greater assholes, who give them an excuse/outlet to be a bigger piece of shit than they might be in normal, non-Evil civilization.

>>46083916
Disappointing, but probably not completely awful.

>>46083916
Take the Unchained Summoner, nerf the Eidolon, give it a transformation sequence, and some Social talents that may or may not be garbage depending on your campaign. This is the Magical Child.

I think it's fine and look forward to trying it, but people who were expecting Sakura or Nanoha are bitterly disappointed and drown every mention of it in salt, so, you know, brace yourself.

How do you make a voodoo shaman in PF?

>>46084017
Does it function as an Eidolon?

>>46083133
Thanks dude

>>46084110
Nope, it's a self improving familiar. I believe it can become improved at 3rd, and choose a new form at 5th and 7th, but don't quote me on that.

>>46084098
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advancedClassGuide/classes/shaman.html

>>46084098
A shaman or witch?

>>46084098
Alchemist probably.

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>>46084017
Honestly, I kind of dig that. If I was in a game that was 1pp only, I'd probably play one just to play one. I've never had a thing for characters with familiars, but it'd be nice to try.

Also I want to make a fox that fucking HULKS THE SHIT OUT to go along with my mahou shoujou

What does a Gunsmoke Mystic do? Heard a lot about it but can't find anything on it...

>>46084146
O-oh...

>>46084110
No, it functions as a Familiar with a vigilante identity of its own. That vigilante identity gives it free Improved Familiar (in such a way that it doesn't prevent the familiar from having archetypes) at 3rd, 5th, and 7th, and at 9th gains Change Shape. It also gives it DR/magic equal to your vigilante level, and it counts as you for Startling, Frightening, and Stunning Appearance, suing either your or its CHA, whichever's higher.

>>46084110
>>46084144
It starts as a normal familiar, becomes a 3rd-level Improved at 3rd, then a 5th-level at 5th, then a 7th-level at 7th, and at 9th (but not before) can switch between any of the four forms it's had.

>>46084172
It's a mystic that uses guns. It gets tempest gale and solar wind, while trading out some others. It can reload as a free action, gets rapid reload for all as a free feat, and a few other uses to increase their gun usage. Trades out a few of the defensive abilities.

>>46084172
It's in Path of War: Expanded. Basically, it just makes it so you can use guns without bullshit stopping you from using guns.

>>46084144
So what's the point of spells on that list like, say, Rejuvenate Eidolon?

>>46084214
It doesn't matter? I mean, you can choose different spells.

>>46084214
>she cannot choose spells that would affect an eidolon

So uh.. None.

>>46084214
You're forbidden from picking eidolon-specific spells.

>>46083471
yes anon DSP invented and copyrighted the word metamorph so no one else is ever allowed to use it

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>>46082772
For reference this is an early image of a young (under 60) cleric of Gyronna. She's dressed up like a Syrian child bride to hide the shame of not being a hideous hag yet.

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>>46084263
Mhmm, okay.

>>46084200
I see PoW:E is kinda new? I imagine next to no one has PDF's of it?

>>46084242
Which is hilarious in a horrible way, because RAW that means you can pick almost no spells. Haste affects eidolons. Enlarge person and mage armor affect eidolons, due to share spells. An asshole GM could have a field day with that line.

>>46084258

I don't think anyone is claiming that.

It's just starting to become a recurring pattern with Paizo making things with the exact same name/theme as DSP.

>>46083057
Just go full inquisitor after 5 level of bolt ace. You don't get anything notable from Bolt Ace after that level.

>>46084242
Wait.. That WOULD AFFECT an Eidolon? Not that MUST TARGET Eidolons?

...So, by RAW, you can't take any spells that have "Outsider" as a legal target?

Hell, Eidolons have Share Spells, so you can't take any with a target of You, either!

>>46084167

Funnily enough, the language on the Animal Guide offers a loophole to use a mauler archetype familiar. So you kind of CAN have a combat monster pet (nowhere near on par with a proper eidolon, but still).

>>46084280
I actually imagine a good number of the people here have them. I know I bought it because I know the DSP guys have busted their asses for long enough, and I've built a number of characters based off playtest material already. Might as well get the most up-to-date stuff and thank them for it.

>>46084293
Isn't that a pretty hard hit to Caster Level?

>>46084318
I'm not sure it's even a loophole, it seems pretty clearly written to be the case!

>>46084333
Still better than full bolt ace.

>>46084333
If you were going Inquisitor into Bolt Ace, it'd be a hit to caster level. Going Bolt Ace into Inquisitor, the fact that you're gaining spells at all is a huge plus.

>>46084318
>>46084345
I'm just gonna sit over here and be sad that it's not the same uber-broken loophole Summon Guardian Spirit came with. CR 11 creatures from SMIII will never be topped (or errata'd because splatbook ayyy).

>>46084287
nothing new under the sun m8, there's only so many words associated with shapeshifting, especially ones you can use as names, it's been years.

>>46084345

Well, Paizo's hurt me plenty, to the point where I find it hard to believe they'd intentionally give us the option like that. But hey, who knows?

>>46084357
>>46084358
True enough.

>>46084438
Well, look! They don't say the familiar doesn't get Speak with Others, or.. anything, really! It gets everything familiars do normally!

It just says that, at 3rd, 5th, and 7th, it gains the ability to, permanently transform its Vigilante identity into a creature on the Improved Familiar list. It's still a baseline familiar in its Social identity, which means it has all the familiar abilities, and, really importantly, its Vigilante Identity doesn't BECOME an Improved Familiar, it physically TRANSFORMS into a creature from that list! That's VERY specific wording!

I mean, YOU don't lose your class archetype when you Alter Self, do you?

>>46084519
>I mean, YOU don't lose your class archetype when you Alter Self, do you?
Please don't offer them ideas.

>>46084519
I'm pretty sure I remember someone (Seifter?) saying the Magical Child familiar would be great as a Decoy, to allow for some dual-identity shenanigans. This says to me that it uh, can be a Decoy.

>>46084519
>I mean, YOU don't lose your class archetype when you Alter Self, do you?
Shut up before Paizo hears you.

>>46084519
Here's a thought actually. Vigilantes have two identities, their "true" form as a vigilante and their mask form in their social persona. The social persona is very obviously weaker, as all their abilities are only available in their mask form. But there's no reason the Familiar can't choose to exist in their mask form all the time and transform into their social mauler form when battle starts. Right?

>>46084589

Ah, but what we're talking about here is that the Animal Guide can benefit from mauler even WHEN transformed into the vigilante identity. Thus, it can be even more combat effective.

Can we just agree that Vigilante is shit and should be thrown in the Tier 9 list with the Kineticist where it belongs?

>>46084631
>agree
>/pfg/
No.

ALSO KINETICIST IS T4 GUISE STAY TOOOOOLD

>>46084631
Jesus, how baka can one senpai be? It's a better fighter than a fighter and a better rogue than a chained rogue. It's a 4, easily. Magical Child elevates it to a 3. Stay salty, desu!

>>46084646
You think Barbarian is good and worth playing, your opinion doesn't matter.

>>46084646
You're a helper

>>46084631
You know it turns the tier list into a joke when you spew salt about how anything that disappointed you has to be T-minus-one-billion, right? Fuck off, it's T4 and low T3 archetyped like so many others.

>>46084646
You're the last person we want to hear about Tiers, faggot.

Nah, I'd say it's surprisingly mid-to-highTier 4 given all it can do both combat and skill wise. If it didn't have that crappy identity restriction, it could easily supplant the Rogue

>>46084017

Honestly, as someone who was expecting Sailor Moon I'm still disappointed.

Though more confused. I can't think of a single Magical Girl it actually works for. It's sorta like 'John Wick on Japan'. The writer likely saw half a magical girl show and half remembers what they did see.

>>46084589
>>46084628
Yeah, to do otherwise would be like if a Sylph Sky Druid lost their permanent featherfall for wildshaping. Aka: dumb.

>>46084689
Meant for>>46084631

>>46084631
I think Vigilante is about the same level of competence as the Investigator.

Sure - they're both good, but you're not banking on them being combat-focused since a good chunk of their class features gives them the role of "party face" and "information gatherer"

What is this 'tier list' nonsense people go on about? And what classes are generally considered where?

>>46084694
Kind of reminds me of Rayearth? I guess?

They're passable gishes (no Magic Weapon though? Jesus christ. I guess go Skinwalker and specialize in naturals?), with a pet that may or may not be relevant to the fight depending on archetype and improvements, and a transformation sequence that takes so long the fight'll end if they're not just in Magical Girl mode all the time. Much better to spend most of your time in Magical Girl mode and only revert when you need your Social abilities.

They're not BAD, they're just.. WEIRD.

>>46084740
Prepared full casters are top, spontaneous full casters are almost top, everything else is garbage

>>46084273
It's right there in one of the Kingmaker books.

Prematurely:

Vigilante (Stalker) is Tier 4
Vigilante (Avenger) is Tier 4
Vigilante (Brute) is probably lower end of Tier 4
Vigilante (Magical Child) is low Tier 3 to mid Tier 3
Vigilante (Cabalist) is low Tier 3 to mid Tier 3
Vigilante (Zealot) is low Tier 3 to mid Tier 3
Vigilante (Warlock) is low Tier 3 to mid Tier 3
Vigilante (Mounted Fury) is Tier 4
Vigilante (Psychometrist) is mid Tier 4 to high Tier 4
Vigilante (Wildsoul) is Tier 4
Vigilante (Gunmaster) is low Tier 4, maybe Tier 5

>>46084740

http://pastebin.com/kXATw76y

Results may vary.

>>46084740
>Tier 1:
Wizard, Druid, Cleric, Witch, Sorcerer (Razmiran Priest/False Priest), Oracle (Paragon Surge/Lunar/Ancient Lorekeeper etc.), Arcanist, Shaman
>Tier 2:
Oracle, Sorcerer, Summoner, Magus (Hexcrafter), Bard (Magician), Skald (UMD/Expanded Spell Kenning), Unchained Summoner, Inquisitor (Monster Tactician), Alchemist (Preservationist/Promethean Alchemist + Planar Preservationist), Psychic
>Tier 3:
Alchemist, Bard, Inquisitor, Magus, Investigator, Warpriest, Paladin (Sacred Servant), Hunter, Skald, Mesmerist, Occultist, Spiritualist, Bloodrager (Monstrous Physique UMD/Urban Bloodrager), Medium (Spirit Dancer), Vigilante (Warlock/Zealot)
>Tier 4:
Barbarian, Paladin, Ranger, Adept, Brawler, Slayer, Fighter (Eldritch Guardian/Lore Warden/Mutation Warrior/Martial Master/Drill Sergeant), Bloodrager, Medium, Unchained Monk, Unchained Barbarian, Monk (Properly Archetyped - namely Qinggong Monk), Vigilante (Stalker/Avenger), Unchained Rogue
>Tier 5:
Cavalier, Samurai, Fighter, Gunslinger, Rogue, Ninja, Swashbuckler, Monk, Kineticist
>Tier 6:
Aristocrat, Warrior, Commoner, Expert

>>46084740
The tier list is in the pastebin. The basic idea is:
Tier 1 is godlings who, when properly built, can do anything always. Wizards and the like go here.

Tier 2 is demigodlings who, when properly built, can either do most things always, or everything most times. Sorcerers and friends go here.

Tier 3 is the best mankind has to offer, who when properly built, can do most things, most times. Magus and pals go here.

Tier 4 is exceptionals among mortal men, who when properly built, can do either some things most times, most things some times, or one or two things REALLY WELL. Barbarians and their sort go here.

Tier 5 is still better than baseline folk, but either spread way too broadly, or just too weak in their chosen specialization, and are outclassed at their thing by other classes who do it better. Fighter and co go here.

Tier 6 is NPC classes, an average baseline human. Aristocrat, Warrior, Commoner, Expert, and (some argue, while Buildposter disagREEEEEEs), the Kineticist go here.

>>46084740
It should be in the pastebin in the OP

It's basically a measure of the Narrative Control and ability to solve every problem that a class has compared to other classes.
Wizards and prepared classes that can solve all the things are Tier 1, and it goes down from there. Generally, the sweet spot of balance is Tier 3, and either Tier 4 or 2 depending on how high power you prefer your games. I prefer a 4/3 game myself

It should be noted that it measures a class's capabilities overall, and that a singular powerful/optimized build does not a tier placement make, which is something Buildposter does not understand about Tiers. Hence why, a highly optimized Kineticist with either Air or Earth focus can creep into Tier 4 power, while the class as a whole is a bunch of Tier 5 garbage

>>46084845
>tfw the only way to go lower than Tier 6 is to actively make existence worse for everyone by existing

In my last session, my fellow party members and I faced a group of five Duergar warriors, five or six Troglodytes, six Svirfneblin, a Gargoyle, two Spider Swarms, and three Vegepygmies.

This was all in the same dungeon, and we only fought the Vegepygmies and the spiders. The pygmies were behind the first door we came across, and myself and another veteran player decided we needed to obliterate them out of our mutual hatred for vegepygmies. I Intimidated the Duergar into letting us by without a fight, the Gargoyle accepted a cursed magic gem we'd been trying (unsuccessfully) to get rid of in exchange for breaking down two stuck stone doors, one of which lead to the Svirfneblin, who asked if we'd seen any Duergar. We told them where the Duergar were, and they all ran off to lynch them. In the next room over were the Troglodytes, who apparently worshiped the Svirfneblin, and after a good deal of arguing (which I didn't understand a word of, as I was the only one who did not speak Draconic), the Trogs decided we were also Svirfneblin, and gave us all of their random treasure they'd piled up. One of the two Wizards happened to be arachnophobic (it was even written on his sheet!), and when we came across the spiders, a whole lot of magic missiles were shot at them while I flung Crystal Blasts to slow them down.

The problem is, one of our Wizards is an Enchanter, so he's useless in all of the fights that we can't talk our way out of because it's generally a mindless swarm or zombie or something he can't affect at all. Oh, and we're 3rd level, so he's a long ways away from Martial Training V for that delicious Sleeping Goddess stance.

>>46084845
>while Buildposter disagREEEEEEs
REEEEEE TIER 4

>>46084740
Tier measure how much sheer power classes have on the narrative.

Wizards and other prepared spellcasters are tier 1: they can have the right tool for any job with a day or so of preparation and proper use of their resources.

Sorcerers and other spontaneous spellcasters (as well as the strongest Psionic manifesters and some other stuff) are tier 2: they have just as much problem-solving power, but not as many options.

Magi and Alchemists and other partial spellcasters are tier 3: they can have as much power as tiers 1 and 2, but only in one or two things, and are merely adequate in other situations.

Barbarians and Paladins are tier 4: they're good at one thing, may have one or two more things they're okay at, and then are kind of mediocre to bad at everything else.

Core Rogues and Monks are tier 5: they're just not even good at the thing they're supposed to be good at, or are okay at their one thing and completely garbage at absolutely everything else.

>>46084874
Despite their many crimes, Paizo has at least yet to hit Tier 7, the so-called Truenamer Tier.

The truenamer actively got worse by levelling.

>>46084740
It tries to rank classes both by their power potential and their versatility/flexibility in one linear scale. Problems and disagreements arise based on how much those two things actually contribute to scale.

It's generally agreed that Tier 1 and 2 are maximum power with Tier 1 being more versatile though. People make a bit of a mess of things but I think Tier 3 and 4 should be the same deal, classes of equal potential power with those of greater versatility being 3. 5 and 6 are just a pissing contest of relative playability, they mostly just get their power from feats rather than class features anyway at that level.

>>46084887
You can REEEEE all you want, it doesn't make your dumbass opinion right.

>>46084887
REEEEEEE his purpose as a class it to literally kill himself

>>46084905
Is /pfg/ really this bad at telling apart the actual BUILDPOSTER and some bored faggot impersonating him? I don't even try to act like him.

>>46084914
Poe's law.

Lurker in Darkness feat - are darkvision and scent considered unusual senses, given that not every creature has them, or do the unusual senses need to be truly rare or magical to bother hiding from them.

>>46084914
All you have to do is be a retard, it's not hard to duplicate him.

>>46084914

Well, there were like four people doing it the other day. Kind of jumbles things.

>>46084935
I'd say yes, but I'm not your GM.

Ask your GM.

>>46084931
>>46084939
>>46084948
Fair.

>>46084935
It's a bit broad, but I think it's meant to hide you from the shit that auto-detects you like blindsense, lifesense, tremorsense, etc. Darkvision and scent still allow Stealth rolls anyway, iirc.

>>46084971
Scent doesn't, it pinpoints a square but not a creature, like Blindsense.

Ironically, the name is 'Lurker in Darkness', but it doesn't really do anything to prevent Darkvision since all Darkvision/See in Darkness/Low-Light Vision is manipulate normal eyesight in dark conditions, they aren't actually abnormal or additional senses.

>>46084748

If it got a Mech like Rayearth I'd not be complaining.

Yeah, I think if the Spell List was different they'd be half decent.

Like a blasting/self buff spell list would have really helped it a lot.

That and Mauler really feels...off...as about the only way to make it able to do combat for shit. Your pet is suddenly unable to talk, even if it normally could? Sucks to be whatever Imp/Archon got stuck with you.

...Harbringer Archons might not be a terrible idea. They are Str 6 Tiny creatures with 3 automatically magical natural weapons.

>>46085007
They don't lose the ability to speak, if they can speak a language. They lose the special ability to speak mentally with their master, and other animals of their species (which.. improved familiars don't have anyway). They can still speak Celestial, or whatever. A Mauler Raven can still speak aloud.

>>46084834
Oracle always seemed neat to me. How does a Lunar Oracle build usually go?

>>46085066

>A mauler isn't impressed by fancy words—only furious battle. A mauler can't speak, even if it's a type of creature that normally could.

Nnnope, sorry.

>>46085066

Yeah, sorry. I misremebered Mauler.

>a mauler can never have an Intelligence score higher than 6.

That is what I was thinking of. Time to get a Retard Strength Archon!

>>46085125
>>46085126
they can't speak due to class feature shenanigans. But they probably can with magic, wondrous items, etc.

the problem is that 6 INT means you're speaking with someone who talks using "hulkspeak"

Why is the rulebook written with female pronouns?

>>46085174
Because it has been for years, and if that's actually something you'd complain about I feel sorry for the people around you.

>>46085095
You grab an Animal Companion to basically play a Druid.

>>46085174
The rules for each class use the pronoun of that class's Iconic. Note how the Vigilante uses male, while the Magical Child uses female.

File: 1431356847284.png (511KB, 681x665px) Image search: [Google]

511KB, 681x665px

>>46085174

If you ask that question you're just going to get another question, "Why does it need to be in male pronouns?"