Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

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First for Spess Goat Waifus

>>46060875
"Hey honey.. why don't we try something more.. kinky tonight?"
"You don't mean..
"Oh but I do. Grab the spacegoat body!"

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>>46060847

Man, why'd you have to bring up the movie?
I have such low hopes.

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Edgy Vampire elves or 'misunderstood' elves?

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>>46060936
Second for alexstraszass

What would Goblins be like in a society without a gold coin standard, or organized auction houses?

What would primitive Goblins be like?

Look at this shit.
No better than /vg/

>>46061002
>What would Goblins be like in a society without a gold coin standard, or organized auction houses?
What are Jews like in modern America?

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>>46060603

Good up until the introduction of the abomination that shall not be named.

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>>46061002
Goblins don't use gold coins on Kezan, they actually had paper money called "macaroons". Or maybe that was a nickname for cash. Beats me. All I know is that it came in fat stacks.

>>46061002
Hoarders

>>46061055
Me'dan?

> GLARBABLAHBALHABALAHHBLBLBLBL

>>46060936
Those dresses are just criminally erotic.

>So much sexyback
>Shoulders free
>ribs and waist partially exposed

Sweet sky above it's just an irrestible lure to lay her over the table and go to town on that backside.

>>46061060
It's company scrip. You know, the stuff business owners give their employees that have no worth outside the company and have a depreciated value to actual currency.

>>46061002
>What would primitive Goblins be like?
Dimwitted slaves mining magic crystals for their Troll overlords.

Probably not much different from other primitive races serving as Adventurer fodder.

>>46060974
I almost know it's going to be one of the biggest letdowns of the year, and I'm still gonna go fucking see it in theaters.

God I hate myself sometimes.

>>46060847
>>46060974

I don't care. I am so hype for it, I think I will enjoy it whether it could be measured "good" or "bad" in any form. I have been waiting for a film for almost half my life and now it's here.

I'm even going to forgive Duncan Jones his unnecessary jab at Tolkien, who is basically my god. That's how hype I am for this fucking film.

Whats the one change you would make to set off a catalyst of lore changes for the better in Warcraft, anons?

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>>46061196
Oh, okay.

>>46061178
Not to mention how the tail hangs over the back of the dress. UGH, the things I could do.

>>46060974
I'm fairly sure you'll get a mount or a pet or a Feat for seeing it. That's probably the only reason I'll see it, baby Thrall looks like a fucking Shrek baby.

>>46061269
The tail bit is exclusive for Draenei, but I'm talking about the dress in general. It's been an asset for the new year's eve event I think and I saw sexy fanart of all the races of this and everytime my DIAMONDS used harden.

Draenei do wear it the best, though.

>>46060847
>>46060974
Watching the trailer is confusing in regards to what they are trying to do. Is it supposed to be WC Orc & Humans? I get its a 'we are being invaded but some of the invaders are nice and don't want to invade' but it sells it very poorly. They push the Green Moses angle pretty hard. They give no in - trailer reason why there are brown and green orcs, which I imagine is confusing for some people. Overall, it's a busy, fast paced trailer that, instead of making you hyped up, leaves you puzzled. If I didn't already know about WoW, I really wouldn't care. Honestly, a better cut trailer would do wonders. BZ have to sell to everyone with this, not just their existing fans.

>>46061002
I sorta want them to be all neanderthal/monkey-like.
Grouping up in clumps of.. 5-8 members with an alpha goblin who is slightly bigger than the rest.
Eating certain minerals because they always have
flinger their poo because it explodes because of before mentioned minerals
And of course they should be like that bird that collects shiny things. But with goblins, they simply collect golden-like things

>>46060847
>Discuss the viability of Warcraft as a tabletop RPG setting

Practically high fantasy WWII now isn't it? Guns, Tanks, and Airships and shit with some magic spells and occasionally using comically over sized axes and Swords for CQC instead of bayonets. Players are mercs or Spec Ops doing raids against Cultists or Naga raiders or something.

Maybe some Shadowrun vets can tell you how to differentiate multiple races and classes in a setting with advanced technology.

But seriously, fuck off and take your cancerous /tv/ crap and waifu shitposters with you.

>>46061002
Well goblins were dumb as shit until they started consuming some crystal type thingies.

So are we talking about the ones before crystal thingies or the ones after? because afterwards they were smart enough to innovate rather complex things very, very quickly. Beforehand they were used as cheap slave labor in mines.

>>46061392
its like /tesg/ anon

>>46061392
Shadowrun is... not a bad idea. Would need to strip out all the fluff and change the way magic works. Otherwise it shows what will happen if goblins continue unabated.

It's also why we set any campaign early in WoW or before.

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>>46059039
>>46059076
>>46059654
I actually ran into a post on the WoW forum years ago that I thought was pretty insightful about that whole mess, and ended up saving it.

>>46061336
>>46060974
The idea that they were playing around with I believe was that a 'special' movie ticket would get you all the xpacs and a month of game time on the cheap.

Tech level is one of the things that bother me
I'd like to run an RPG of it, with as many of the races as I can, but pushed back to maybe WC2 levels of technology.

>>46061491
That post is beautiful

>>46061560
I agree, the inclusion of Goblins and Gnomes is one of the things I really don't like about Warcraft. I'm fine with a comic relief hurr durr slapstick race, but when their equaliser is mecha suits and airships I sort of lose my liking for them quite a bit.

>>46061247

>I'm even going to forgive Duncan Jones his unnecessary jab at Tolkien, who is basically my god. That's how hype I am for this fucking film.

My goodness, you are far more forgiving than me. It does look like it might be "so bad it's good" territory.

>>46061560
Tides of Darkness had zeppelins and flying machines and submarines and ships that ran by burning oil extracted from the sea floor. The tech level was still pretty high, to be honest. I mean, the Gnomish Inventor building has a goddam satellite dish on the roof.

>>46061247
What jab?

>>46061560
>I'd like to run an RPG of it, with as many of the races as I can, but pushed back to maybe WC2 levels of technology.

WC2 levels of technology? like helicopters, oil rigs and submarines?

>>46061560
But anon, everything except space ships were already in WC2.

How come with machine guns, nukes, and napalm that the backbone of every army is still a soldier with a comparatively primitive weapon?

>>46061560
>>46061658
If/when you run a game, consider this: supply lines. Sure the dwarfs.can make you a steam tank, but it's expensive and hard to repair. If I remember right, in WC2 they had a high pop value, so you could have one and some other forces or just a few steam tanks, which still had exploitable weaknesses. In an rpg, you could get a single steam tank and maybe a two dwarf support crew, or most of an order of knights. A single sub or a dozen sailing ships. That sort of thing.

>>46061779
WC2 didn't have steam tanks, human siege engines were ballistae.

>>46061748
The setting's melee combatants can get pretty fucking crazy. They can charge at super speed, deflect spells, shrug off blasts to the soul, turn temporarily invulnerable, and be bears. An endgame warrior could probably tank a few JDAMs easily.

Plus, most of the good shit is rare, expensive, or bind-on-pickup.

>>46061635
It's not so much forgiveness as it is my unresolved obsession with Warcraft.

Technically speaking, I would just as much as anybody else here condemn the film because a.) no film-adaption of a gamefranchise has ever been considered "good", though maybe "entertaining", and b.) having a fantasy nerd talk shit about Tolkien shows us that they are entirely full of themselves.

(I say this fully knowing that Tolkien didn't write in a way that was accessible, by the way. The Lord of the Rings was an awfully exhausting book to read. But the themes and the characters are timeless and to imply that he somehow got "fantasy wrong" should have whoever claims so hanged.)

But I still love Warcraft, even though I see all the wasted potential and it makes me sad, and I want to see the film and I will view it with so much hype that I simply cannot imagine how they'd ruin this for me.

I'm not saying they couldn't, mind you. But I am so hyped that I simply cannot compute a scenario where I would walk out of this film disappointed, so they would have to do something so unexpectedly bad that it would make my heart stop right then and there in my seat in the film theatre.

>>46061351
It's WC1 but in an alternate timeline where Green Jesus/Moses is born earlier, the orcs are -forced- out of Draenor, Dalaran is in the sky, and the Kingdom of Stormwind calls itself the Alliance even though the Grand Alliance of Lordaeron wasn't formed until the Second War after Stormwind got razed.

The whole thing is a mess so having knowledge of the established lore only gives you know-how on names and general archetypes.

>>46061909
That is somehow even worse than what I was expecting.

>>46061748
Because this isn't real life.

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>>46061491
>Finding that something concise and insightful on the official forums

You found the gold nugget. I never really grasped why I disliked Aggra 'til now- she checked a lot of boxes for me, but still felt off.

>>46061822
Huh. Looks like you are right. The point about supply lines still stands, however.

>>46061658
and it still felt less jarring than the steps to wow level tech

>>46061865
>exhausting to read
what?

>>46061261
The Horde was dismantled at the end of SoO and it was merged with the Alliance. Comply or die.

>>46062075
For the Blue Horde ?

>>46062049
WC2 is a lot less serious about some things. I mean, in the winter maps, there are snowmen in front of some buildings, and others are festooned with christmas lights. There's the aforementions satellite dish, for crying out loud. There's less thrust to build a more coherent world, and the much lower graphical fidelity doesn't allow for the same degree of immersion anyway. WoW tech is jarring because it's incongruous in an established world. WC2 is allowed to be a little bit more goofy in ways that WoW isn't.

>>46062049
I'd like the idea of gnome tech if they really felt it out.

Gnome society, when they have one, is basically somewhere between atomic and nanotech at this point. Gnomes should have started to feel distant from their primitive allies. They won't want to put their doomsday devices on the frontlines because the savages aren't ready for that kind of power.

Gnomes got priests because it's implied they started worshipping Titans upon finding out their ancestors were robot Titan creations. What if they moved back toward augmentation and roboticization? Yet another reason for them to feel less connected to this Horde vs Alliance nonsense

>>46061748
All the cool new tech is fairly new. Could say they're not used to them and are using new generation hardware with the last generation's tactics. Also some melee combatants can make themselves invincible for a short while or run at super speed or turn invisible so it gives them an edge at short range. Dunno why rogues don't have a sharpshooters though. Seems they're practically made for it.

>>46061668
He was asked how "Warcraft" would feel different from other fantasy films like LotR and he said something along the lines of "It will be different than what some old, white guy wrote in a second world-war trench".

You could interpret all kinds of crazy internet madness into that statement, but above all it probably ment that "Warcraft" is much closer to our modern mentality as opposed to Middle-Earth's thoroughly medieval mindset, or what counted for it back in the day.

>>46061560
>>46061624
>>46061658
>>46061679

The difference now from the Second War is that all the know-how still lay with the Goblins and Gnomes/Dwarves, while in WoW-era basically every race is familiar and even proficient with it.

People may know about the tech, but may largely be incapable of understanding how exactly it works, so they can't reproduce it or even maintain it.

This makes an incredible difference in the global technology level and I'd say it is legitimate to take a step back and think of Azeroth as a still largely Medieval world where influental and/or rich individuals are the minority who can even access the people to request battlefield support.

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>>46062171
>tfw my gnome warrior will never be a tiny, chromed up street samurai among primitive barbarians

>>46061748
The constant devastation and warfare of the last few generations, while forcing the development of new weapons, has both prevented their widespread adoption due to the cost and resources involved AND hampered the development of tactics most able to make use of these new weapons.

Plus like, they fight a buncha guys that can straight up ignore bullets.

>>46062195
Oil-burning boats are actually not goblin/gnome in origin. The Horde had Troll Destroyers and Ogre Juggernauts, and the Alliance had Elven Destroyers and non-brand Battleships.

Actually, Alliance boats were kind of weird in that they took oil as a resource but visually were all about those sails.

In any case, since everybody had cannons, it's clear everybody at least had gunpowder.

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>>46062223
You could be a tiny Tony Stark, though.

Tiny Stark, if you will.

>>46062062
Have you read The Lord of the Rings? That shit is so thoroughly medieval, the narration is just so different to what the modern reader is accostumed to, that it takes more effort to comprehend what the hell actually is going on. Apart from that, there's several moments when a scene feels dragging on and on, which really takes out the drive in situations.

>>46062230
ADDITIONALLY:

I personally feel like, given a decade or two of peace, Azeroth would go full INDUSTRY.

For now, it's mostly well-funded armies with access to advanced tech (and magic, at that), while all the poor local schlubs have to make do with swords and bows.

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>>46062171
guild wars 2 had a race of not-gnomes who are a bit like that

>>46061491
>Aggra is the vehicle to serve as Thrall's character assassination
...Huh. That is a scarily reasonable idea. Between that and Thrall/Jaina, it dangerously makes sense.

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Hogger as raid boss when?

>>46062390
It already happened during BlizzCon 2009.

>>46062320
I have read LoTR.
I have read modern fantasy too.

The shit is medieval because it is supposed to invoke a medieval feeling, like the questing epics that it was based on. It doesn't have needless exposition because it is presented naturally throughout the narrative.
Yes a few words are not as commonplace but its not something written 500 years ago. Tolkien does a perfect job building up a world and telling the reader an epic tale in said world in a singular narrative flow.

>>46062408
Fug.

So what happened to AU Grom at the end of WoD? There should be some serious consequences for what he did.

Also why do people consider Orgrim a decent orc? He was still willing to genocide the Alliance during the 2nd War.

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Never forget Theramore

>>46062390
My first character ever was a troll rogue, so I never really fell in with the Hogger memes. I get it, he's the first elite many Alliance players meet who can legitimately kick their ass. He reached such meme status that, as >>46062390 points out, he came back as a raid boss mechanic during Wrath of the Lich King. I guess it's one of those things you have to experience firsthand.

>>46062477
because thrall built the new horde around ogrim's cult of personality.
Which makes all the 4skin and belf fags shouting for the horde funnier because they are following the same organization that has a capital named after the person that was going to kill them.

>>46062477
Personally I like him for recognizing that Blackhand was a patsy and killing him, and then telling the Warlocks "Fuck you, I don't work for you, you work for me".

How do we make gnomes and goblins less annoying?
Is it even possible?

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>>46062321
Blizz has really shot itself in the foot with the whole technology thing and they don't know what to do.
Warcraft 1 was pure medieval sword and sorcery.
Warcraft 2 introduced some very limited tongue-in-cheek steampunk and some age of sail ships.
Warcraft 3 continued with some more limited steampunk and more magic so you didn't focus too much on it.
WoW has added so much tech with the Gnome and Goblins that the swords and bows that were ubiquitous to the setting are really worthless if you think about it.
Shit, the whole Iron Horde was full on industrial.
And of course, they also introduced magical crystal spaceships back in Burning Crusade.
Tech level is all over the fucking place.

>>46062390
I miss getting together 40-man level one Hogger raids. It was fun back before faggots would bring in their heirlooms and completely defeat the purpose of doing it.

>>46062505
Yeah, most Horde players never got to know the FEAR that Vanilla Saurfang inflicted when he could 1-shot your raid-geared tank on your way to fight Thrall(who was a total pushover).

>>46062523
gnomes are alright as a nearly dead race that is slowly rebuilding and is curious about any phenomena.
They are in a good place other than the wacky lolrandumb bullshit they did in cata.

Goblins were alright for the horde before the entire race became playable. They still are pretty cool.

>>46062390
FOREST ONLY SETBACK

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>>46060981

Reminder that Metzen's daughter yelled at him because Alexstraza is wearing a bikini and so now Blizz is going to be censoring everything from now on.

>>46062579
There was a very brief period in vanilla where Alliance Priests were able to MC Saurfang while fighting him, and they basically brought the fucking hurt onto the Horde with it until Blizzard hotfixed it.

The auction house and streets were absolutely littered with low-level corpses.

>>46062609
IN THE MOUNTAINS

>>46062491
Yup, never forget the time Garrosh bent the Alliance over and fucked them so hard in the ass that they would taste Orc cum fir the rest of their lives.

>>46062637
Never forget the time blizzard literally said they wouldn't put orgrimmar being rekt by the alliance because it hurt horde feefees.

>>46062630
I missed people kiting Lord Kazzak into Swormwind. Holy fuck, the corpses never ended.

>>46062523
I honestly don't know much about gnomes but they don't seem that bad to me.

I wish Goblins were more than GREEN JEWS MONEY GREED, even fucking orcs are more diverse. I don't hate them since I have a Goblin Rogue myself but they could be more than they are.

>>46062629
It is kind of hard to take seriously.

Then again so is the visual design of modern Warcraft in general.

>>46062637
You mean the time they butchered Garrosh's characterization and had him bomb a city full of women and children a couple of years after killing his last general for doing the same?

>>46062677

>implying a dragon near-god needs armor.

>>46062637
>with a bomb built by elves and goblins
>on a goblin airship
>with stolen magic from dragons
>stolen by an elf

yeah, orcs strong. big orc muscles win at everything.

>>46062629
IMO, Sylvanas' outfit should've resembled her Heroes of the Storm skin, minus the face covering and shoulder doohickeys (and the bow with her face on it)

>>46062674
What were the old vanilla exploits and memes? I remember one of them was a paladin building so many stacks of some power that he one-shots a major demon in the Blasted Lands.

>>46062715
It was a Ret talent that basically made your next strike spell (can't remember the name) do %more damage if you stacked it by doing something. It was a long time ago.

Basically this dude farmed stacks of that talent up for hours outside of the demon's lair in the world, and then walked in and oneshot the boss that full 40-man guilds hadn't been able to down yet.

My favorite vanilla meme is probably MANY WHELPS, HANDLE IT though.

>>46062715
A more recent bug caused Guardian Druids (aka bear druids) to gain a stack of an unlimited duration buff that would absorb damage because of some strange mechanic that was supposed to reduce them to 1% HP but technically dealt 100 million damage or something, so these druids had 50 million damage-aborbing shields in a time when people had an average of 150k HP

>>46062715
Yeah, I remember that. That was also Kazzak.
There was also the plague that spread from Hakkar. You could get your pet infested and dismiss it, only to summon it in a populated area and have it die and spread to everyone around. And then those people would spread it like fucking AIDS to everyone in the faction

>>46062707
Took good old Orcish ingenuity to put it all together. Garrosh will always have my undying devotion for blowing up gnomes and a certain red haired mage. And making Jaina grow a back bone.

>>46062774
yeah. The corrupted blood incident.

Shit like that will never happen again.

>>46062707

>Garrosh big mad daddy drink demon blood, Garrosh smash Alliance for no raisin, Garrosh drink Old God blood because Orc so stronk!

Reminder that every boss there that was an orc was either using goblin technology, using dragons, using old gods or using the elements and absolutely none of them used their own power.

>>46062755
>MANY WHELPS, HANDLE IT
Ah, memories.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yKqKg6DfTY

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>>46062778
>Orcish ingenuity
I know you fellate Garrosh's Horde, but holy fuck. If there was anything the orcs prided themselves on, intelligence was not one of them.

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>>46062824
>hating on orky techy-nology

>>46062804
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MD7nK8Sla4

>>46062824
Says you. Garrosh was still the one that lured all his supposed betters into a trap. I just wish Baine and Vol'jin had been stuck there.

>>46062774
>>46062781
The CDC actually asked Blizzard for their data on the incident to see how players acted when a viral pandemic was released onto a simulation world. According to them it was great data for that kind of thing, since it showed how people would react to a real disease spreading like wildfire.

>>46062556
>Warcraft 2 introduced some very limited tongue-in-cheek steampunk

it wasn't limited or tongue-in-cheek. if you include the expansion especially, it was very much a core feature. if anything WC3 pivoted slightly away from technology, they introduced the siege engine but the overall proportion of tech was lower and mostly confined to the human faction (while in WC2 both factions were balls-deep in industry).

you're right about WoW, but what in WoW hasn't been inconsistent? there's a need to produce content which overrides any sense of creating a coherent world.

>>46062523
>Remove gnomes, replace with Dwarves just like Warcraft 3 unit roster

Goblins seem unsalvageable at this point, but cannot be removed. They're a staple of Warcraft and modern fantasy with their "Curayzeee" attitude and greedy schemes.

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>>46062839
You mean goblin tech? All of the high-tech stuff in SoO and WoD was Goblin-based.

>>46062781
>>46062861
Correct. The Corrupted Blood incident became so legendary that ACTUAL SCIENTISTS were studying it. You had people who were willingly spreading the disease, you had small holdouts of people trying to cure and heal as many people as they could. It was amazing.

They tried to replicate it with the pre-Wrath server event, with the obelisks and the infected grain.

>>46062861
so people would run into the city and infect as many as their fellow people as they could?
>>46062902
nah, gnomes themselves are a cool concept.
Them being the funny joke race all the time is bad.

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>>46062916
wasn't it a debuff and not being curable?
and I doubt the CDC did anything serious with the data.
>>46062907
IF ITZ GREEN ITS ORKY

>>46062916
Yep. Unfortunately they'll never do something fun like that again because all the casual crybabies got their panties in a twist during the zombie outbreak because they couldn't walk into cities anymore. They literally complained so much the entire general discussion page of the WoW forums were completely flooded by it at the time.

Like shit, how hard is it for people to have some fun? So you can't complete some quests and zombies are killing you - it's a fucking game and a once in a lifetime event - just run or fight.

>>46062907

>Garrosh goes into the past with goblin technology
>Iron Reaver made based on iron horde weaponry with fel infusion
>Burning Legion makes fel robots

You're now realizing that the legion has Fel Reavers because of Blackfuse.

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I don't know why I made this.

>>46062922
Yep. It was hilarious. A similar bug happened later where Shaman fire nova totems could damage allies if you logged out with them up, so a lot of Shaman players would set up a totem in the auction houses and watch their totems wipe the entire room clean because everyone in the AH were low level banker alts.

>>46062961
Not so much CDC as psychologists studying people online being assholes and trying to break the game to make people's lives miserable for the lulz.

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>>46062970
In the Legion intro event, demons are invading literally everywhere. Wetlands, Barrens, Arathi, wherever- and then sending attack forces at capital cities during the ass-kicking of lesser-defended zones.
Smaller quest hubs are getting wiped off the map by demons and cultists burning them down and killing everyone there.

Have no idea how this is going to impact lower level players, or what levels the demon in said zones will be. We'll see, but it seems they got a plan to make it feel like an actual invasion and not an hourly beating of elementals in Stormwind and Orgrimmar.

>>46062715
Its called a reckoning bomb.

Reckoning let you "Store" one attack for every cric you received.
Then release them all when you want to in a instant.
So if you stack enough attacks and release them in one hit it can one shot anything, and divine shield assured the paladin making it to his target alive through the mobs.

The hot fix reduced the stack maximum to 5, so while its still a useful ability in PVP or grinding, you can't use it to one shot raid bosses.

>>46062420
Look, what I wanted to say is LotR is no easy read. That's it. It wasn't even the main point of my original post.

>>46063236
>TFW Paladins will never bring the SMITE again.

>>46063243
I found it easy to read. The prose isn't too long winded.

>>46062970
Its a waste of time for people who have no interest in the event, not everyone have 5 hours sitting at their computer playing wow.

>>46063101
None
There were already silithid invasion and scourge invasion before.
BZ avoid it by putting weaker minions in lower level zones so low level players can participate if they wish but not stopped by it.

I'm trying to sneak low-key version of Trolls into my D&D game

>>46063322
Even if they're lower level, they're wrecking quest hubs- and not just the NPCs you grab the quests from, but all the mobs in the area you need to kill. Either quests will be retooled to "HOLY SHIT FIGHT THOSE DEMONS" or you'll need to defend quest hubs long enough for NPCs to respawn or something.

>>46063420
oh fuck off.
no one does quests anymore.
Its all dungeons now.

>>46063420
As someone who usually enjoys questing, that sounds terrible. Every zone will be the exact same, except for the terrain.

>>46063564
Sadly true.
I played casually doing dungeons and went from 20-80 in less than a week.
Anyone actually trying could do it even faster

>>46063420
When they are using lower level mobs the guards for quest hub generally takes them out.

If they are actually sending the really big nasties then chances are its a very short event, 1 day tops.

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This is a blue dragon (male).

>>46061748
Because the guns and such are relatively weak and finnicky.

>>46061779
In WC3 I could never figure out a use forSteam Tanks because they were practically melee units and moved at the speed of Molases.

By the time it got in range of a turret that turret had probably taken off half of its HP

>>46062556
Age of Sail ships that ran on oil?

>>46063420
>>46063590
It;s just for the duration of the pre-expansion event, and possibly phased for 100s only.

>>46064127
>Age of Sail ships that ran on oil?
Tar used to make the ships watertight.

>>46064149
From ocean oil-rigs?

>>46064168
The Juggernaut, at least, had visible smokestacks and paddlewheels to supplement its sails. Both Orc and human Oil Carriers had no sails, and neither did their Transports. The Troll Destroyer was weird; it had a cloth thing on it that might have been a sail, or might merely have been a canopy over the deck-- it was hard to tell. The Elven Destroyer and the Battleship were definitely primarily sail-powered, though.

>>46064127
Steam tank are Fortified armor, they are moving buildings.
How could any tower aside from cannon tower (which nobody playing seriously uses) take out half of it before it get to the tower?.

Its a distraction unit and was used against light air units in TFT.
It have its use but you generally won't go that line as a human unless you already have a plan.

>>46064303
>Troll Destroyer

You mean Jabba's Sail Barge with tusks glued on?

>>46064127
>>46064374

watch the channl called wtiiwarcraft. British dude who plays nothing but warcraft 3 and plays a lot of 4on4. Massed Steamtanks appear to be a very popular build in those scenarios because massed barragefire is apparently the only surefire way to counter massed frostwyrms.

There's also an instance where he played 1on1 with massed tanks and hero support. The enemy base was done in a single swoop.

>>46064897
Yes I know all about the 4v4 stratgey, same with mass bat rider. but i normally only talk about 1v1 strategy because 4v4 is all about cluster fuck fight.

Mass tank with hero support generally won't do in single player because any opponent with a brain will immediately start making hidden food building while wiping out your economy unopposed (since you know, you have way to kill his units) then grind out your tanks.
Its a stratgey that rely on your opponent being a newbie.

>tfw trying to get into undercity to kill the evil bitch

>>46065442
It was always easier to take the sewer entrance from the outside.

>>46065442
>tfw Battle of Undercity

Such a great quest.

>>46065442
>>46065494
I once went in a raid too dumb to do that.


The elevator boss slaughtered them all.

>>46062390
>lightning enhanced
reeeeeeeeeee scarabs fuck off

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So based on my (poor) understanding of how things looked before the First War, I MS-painted up that map of Azeroth. And now I have questions.

If the Human Kingdoms (save Stromgarde) emerged from city-states, how did Lordaeron get to be so huge?

Why weren't Stratholme, Andorhal, and Tyr's Hand their own city-states/kingdoms?

Were they at one point, only for their stronger neighbor to conquer them?

How did they end up with Hillsbrad?

So, since this is supposed to be about Warcraft as a tabletop setting:

If you were to draft a new Warcraft TTRPG, what basic functions would you include? Let's assume you were completely free in designing mechanics to represent the lore as good as you can, obviously giving you leeway in how close you stick to principle you're tasked to transport into a game mechanic.

Copying elements from other systems is allowed, including the now abandoned Warcraft- and WoW-TTRPGs.

I've already heard things like "Iron Kingdoms" being a good stand-in, but let's still try to bring some creative thought to the table.

>>46065915
because Lordaeron won the genetic lottery and had the biggest successions of competent rulers while Quel'thalas, Dalaran and the Dwarves were all pretty sedentary and isolationist

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>>46065577
I'm sorry anon. Those are always the worst.

>>46065979
>>46065979
I honestly have no idea what Iron Kingdoms even is to be fair, but I would want to make sure that as you level you would be able to keep the power creep at a minimum, Maybe include a houserule of level cap and you just need to work together to accopmlish something or go on actual quests to find the mcgruffin to help you survive crazy events. I heard something similair in pathfinder with capping at level six I think?

>>46065915
Pretty sure there was a serious lingering forest troll problem south of the elves, which isn't on your map.

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>>46061247
>I'm even going to forgive Duncan Jones his unnecessary jab at Tolkien
what?

I don't know why, but I just want to join the Scarlet Crusade now, no for real, instead of being the Leader of the Silver Hand, how bad ass would it be to joing the Scarlets and change them from the inside, take charge of them all and redeem them into the light or if that doesn't work, craft them into a proper weapon of vengence for humanity.

>>46066048
And I was too dumg to fiormally quit the raid group after we all died and split up so despite being the only person IN the group I couldn't get quest credit. Combined with a bunch of other bullshit that made me quit WoW for a long while in BC.

>>46066142
You are thinking of E6, which is not exclusive to Pathfinder. It's an interesting set of house rules that keep the level cap at 6.

I am kicking around the idea of running Orcs & Humans using Adventurer, Conqueror King.

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>>46066256
That last bit's your own fault, dummy.

>>46066274
I was like 14.

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>>46066190
Good point.

My bad.

>>46066201
>not bringing the Scarlet Crusade back into the fold of the Silver Hand, at last unifying all the shattered remnants of the old Order.

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>>46066285

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>>46066192
>The worgen we wanted

vs.

>The worgen we got
Life is suffering

>>46066341
Yeah, they got some burnback for going too furry cheesecake cute face on ONE of the face options and then skipped straight to Rabid Chiuahhua.

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>>46066366
They don't even resemble the males.

It's been literal years and I'm still buttmad about it. PAID PROFESSIONALS MADE THIS. Why? HOW?!

>>46066446
I know they had to make the females "sexy" to appease the horny little 12 year olds but holy fucking hell.

>>46066446
>The suspenders going over the breasts
Man, that is not how clothes work.

>>46066446
Because the majority of players are male and only play female characters if they fit their little waifu molds. Even the furfaggots.

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>>46065915
Did Alterac really use to be so small? I remember it being described mostly in the mountains, or that its mountainous region with rich ore deposits was its most important aspect, but I'd say it at least extended towards the river east of it and declare that as it's border.

I could however imagine Dalaran as really being that small, maaayyybeeee extent to Silverpine and Gilneas.

This of course begs the question: Who owns Southshore? Or is Southshore largely autonomous?

Hillsbrad, I thought, were something of an extended territory of Alterac.

Also >>46066190 has it right, I think. There's a large area in your edit that I would say isn't really Lordaeron territory, or it is on paper but it's mostly uncharted area with no infrastructure and too many trolls so it's basically useless.

>>46066192
Pic related, screenshot from this interview:
http://time.com/3954154/duncan-jones-warcraft-movie-female-characters/

>>46066446
>PAID PROFESSIONALS MADE THIS. Why? HOW?!
"Paid" does not always equate to "good." Karen Traviss, Drew Karpyshyn, 3.x, and Halo 4/5 armor are proof enough of that.

>>46066507
I get what Duncan is saying that Warcraft is much more open to diversity than Tolkien's Euro-centric stories, but that still does feel rather unnecessary.

>>46066192

>Interviewer: So you feel you don’t have the same problems you would face in adapting something like Tolkien?
>Duncan Jones: Exactly. It wasn’t written by an old, white man in the trenches in World War I. It’s going to have a different vibe.

I try and restrain the inevitable 'internet outrage' I feel at such a crass offhand comment, and try to remember that we all have at some point made such a flippant and offensive comment to some group. But anyone who has read or watched or learned anything about WW1 beyond just history classes in highschool is bound to feel some immense sympathy for the poor young men of that generation. Virgins with rifles.

It goes into a shpeel that we've all heard before on 4chan against the three letter boogeyxan, but I feel like there is a very virulent form of chronological snobbery in vogue nowadays which you see vividly in his dismissal of Tolkien. And it's disappointing to see

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>>46066446
It's called sexual dimorphism, just because two creatures don't look very similar doesn't mean they were not the same species.

>>46066565

It could have been phrased a thousandtimes better by someone with their head not up their ass.

"Tolkien was writing from the experiences and perspective of the early 20th century, while we are writing from a 21st century perspective and culture. It gives us more liberty and creative independence."
"Tolkien was a man of his times, and our project/movie/writing is of our contemporary times"
"Being free of having to pay fidelity to Tolkien's original work will allow us a greater degree of freedom and allow us to write something more resonate with people today".

Nah, let's bash a ghost and deride him condescendingly for a movie which would be literally-who if not for WoW.

>>46065915
As far as I can tell from Reign of Chaos, Stratholme and Andorhal are part of Alterac, not Lordaeron.

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>>46066615
Then he wouldn't have so many faggots sperging out over it and giving him and the movie so much free attention.

>>46066565
That is exactly my point.

>>46066644

Nigga he don't need any PR, this is a Warcraft movie. Warcraft isn't quite on the level of D&D or nintendo/mario or whatever in terms of being known by the public but it is damn close.

>>46066644
I actually doubt that that statement was supposed to be something of a calculated effort to rouse the public.

I think it was either a poorly worded reaction in the heat of the moment, trying to be funny or genuine arrogance.

A little off topic, but remember the day BC launched and we entered Hellfire for the first time? All that wonder. All that economy breaking items. All that Hellreaver stomping you out of nowhere.

>>46066734

Wasn't there for that but I remember going to Sithilis when almost nobody had gone there before.

And I was level 40 something. It was terrifying and fascinating. I think MMO sense of adventure has been really damaged by the growth of and reliance on guides.

>>46066446
>>46066484
It's the oppoostie, Blizzard got *Huge* backlash for making the Worgen females "Too pretty" and shot off completely in the opposite direction.

>>46066575
Ignorance of WW1 is unfortunately all too common in the US.

It was unpopular at the time because we were in an isolationist mood and we viewed it as a European clusterfuck, and it lacked an easy good-vs-evil narrative that WW2 has.

>/v/ general of retards spamming waifus and no /tg/ content

So glad our mods don't get paid

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>>46066821
Yeah, but the sinking of the Lusitania got is going in it and we learned we were really good at kicking Kraut ass.
Like this pyramid of captured German helmets we erected in New York.

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>>46066507
Okay yeah, that makes sense. Starts to paint a picture of the settlement of Eastern Lordaeron as successive military campaigns.

I was under the impression that Southshore was a part of Lordaeron? Could be wrong on that one. Would make it awful hard to keep control of it if Alterac controlled the waterway leading there.

>>46066821

The guy who quoted was British, but I mean chronological snobbery across the board. For just about every generation besides Generation X, Y, and maybe the boomers. Perhaps it is inevitable for the passage of time but I think it happens episodically in cultural waves.

>>46066875
According to WoWWiki, Southshore and Tarren Mill used to be part of Lordaeron.
In fact, Southshore was where the survivors of Stormwind landed after the First War before mobilizing everyone up in the north into the Alliance. Except the trolls because they're fucking savages.

>>46066484
>>46066500

Bullshit. Women are just as- if not more- likely to choose a race because they think they're cute or pretty as a guy.

>>46066943
That doesn't change the fact that the demographics are much more male than female.

>>46066875
Southshore was Lordaeron land but it wasn't settled en masse before the refugees from Stormwind arrived in the Northlands

>>46060847
I kinda wish they just stated with WCIII

But I like Duncan Jones

>>46067110
I would have preferred to start off with Tides of Darkness since everyone is joining in on that war.

>>46066875
Remember the quest "Barov's Family Fortune"?

Brill, Caer Darrow, Tarren Mill and Southshore were all once Barov family's property.
And since Caer Darrow was considered Lordaeron land...

>>46067167
They do have to set up the world before they start doing fancy things like WC2 and WC3.
Hell, WC3 is so dense, you could split it into 4 movies, one for each faction.

>>46061491
That made me miss Thrall's old character.

And now I'm sad. He used to be one of my favorites, and now I outright hate the character.

>>46067268
I honestly miss Thrall and Jaina's entire dynamic but that shit's gone now.

>>46066875
We don't actually KNOW what the hell lived in the inaccessible area of Northern Lordaeron.
>>46066966

>>46067232
I feel like WC2 would actually benefit from being a Game of Thrones-esque TV series. The mission structure already makes the narrative pretty episodic, and it would be a good way to interweave the events of the two campaigns that are supposed to be happening semi-simultaneously.

>>46067232
If 50-75% of the paying subscriber base goes to see the film during the opening weekend, will it make a profit?
Also, setting the movie in an AU WC1 will just make things harder for WC2 and WC3. They can't retcon the film until the bluray release.

>>46067304
Yeah, but since the Alliance Player is supposed to be Turalyon, giving us a hero for the Alliance.
We really don't have anyone for the Horde unless you want to try to make Orgrim into a Dindu Nuffin hero to counter Gul'dan and Cho'Gall's betrayal halfway through the Horde campaign.
Which would lead into Thrall's story in WC3.
>>46067320
>Also, setting the movie in an AU WC1 will just make things harder for WC2 and WC3. They can't retcon the film until the bluray release.
Yeah, the movies will bascially have to be their own continuity with all the liberties they're taking from the old lore.

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>>46066940
>>46066966
>>46067174
So I'm just going to assume that they had control over the East bank of the river and use d that.

Even though that doesn't fit with Stromgarde demanding Eastern Alterac after Alterac turned traitor, but whatever.

>>46067299
It was probably meant to be something in Vanilla, but they never got around to putting something there.

>>46067299
>>46067350
if you fly out there, there is a ring of mushrooms that some blink dragons come out to at like a certain time each day, and a crashed plane. iirc

>>46067377
I thought that was Western Tirisfal?

>>46067350
You can extend the boundary past Dalaran and next to Gilneas to get down to Southshore.
I could be assumed that Dalaran is just an independent city-state inside Lordaeron's borders.
Kinda like Vatican City inside Italy.

>>46067350
You can't even fly there in Cata.

>>46067350
I'm honestl;y not sure who owned Chillwind Pass

>>46067377
Nah I mean the area north of EPL/WPL.

Not Tyr's Fall.

>>46067383
>>46067377
my bad, thats western tirisfal. thought you were talking about it.
IIRC, theres a little elven ruin along the coast there. bout it really.

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>>46066341
why does fanart look so much better than the current female worgen models?

>>46066366
>furry cheesecake
furry cheesecake would have been better than what we currently have now

>>46067406
Not that fanart.

>>46067405
That ruin is just where the Burning Crusade areas would be if they were attached to the map instead of instanced.

>>46067346
I don't think the Horde needs a genuine hero in that kind of TV setup. Orgrimm can totally be the protagonist of the Horde side of the show without being super virtuous and really a good guy; he just has to be a genuinely and visibly better alternative to the warlocks-- which he basically already is. He can still be plenty evil, but if audiences have that proof that even evil as he is there are worse options, I think the problem is gone. I mean, to continue the GoT analogy, the Hound is a huge, murderous jerk, but people love him because isn't 100% murder 100% of the time the way his brother is.

>>46067232
IDK, I think the most compelling story is Arthas's fall. If I were doing the adaptation, I would do a brief prologue with Kel'Thuzad's journey north (to introduce the lich king) then just do the entire human campaign ending with the death of King Menethil.

>>46067419
...what?

Anything to note for chronicles scans?

>>46067480
>ending in the death of king Menethil
I'm torn about that. One the one hand, Arthas' "triumphant return" going sideways really is the end of his character arc, and cutting when he disappears in Northrend for months after killing Mal'Ganis is not sufficiently climactic, I think. On the other hand, King Menethil's death is kind of huge, and the fallout from that would need addressing.

Personally, I think I would either rewrite Arthas' final conversation with Mal'Ganis to make it more clear just what takingup Frostmourne has done to him and then I WOULD actually cut it when he disappears into the blizzard, or I would have him come home and enter his father's throne room, complete with sinister choreography, the camera lingering on his sword and the triumphant music slowly becoming discordant, and then put the "Succeeding you, Father" line before he mounts the dias and cut to credits immediately after he says it, in order to only imply the murder without showing it.

As a side note, these threads have prompted to replay WCIII, ad I had forgotten how gorgeous the cinematics were. Like, the animation is clearly outdated now, but it's still pretty damn good, and the writing and direction for them is just top notch. I remember being really impressed by Diablo II's cinematics as well, I'm going to have to rewatch them also. It's such a shame how far Blizzard have fallen.

>>46067632
>in order to only imply the murder without showing it.
They'd be better off copying the actual cinematic and showing it in shadow.

>>46067632
with the size of the arthas book, it would seem absurd to try and split that into 3 movies. however, the pacing in 1 movie would be awful. it would be scene to scene of rushed events that wouldn't play out well on film.

Ive found that most bad films that are adaptions to something are bad because of the amount of content they have to compress into 1 cohesive movie.

Everyone knows about that "first 3 episodes" or whatever crap with most anime where the plot and exposition moves at mach 5. but that's because it gets time to slow down later. with movies, it's all one package, so it has to move reasonably

>>46067297
>I honestly miss Thrall and Jaina's entire dynamic but that shit's gone now.
I realized that they were trying to destroy everything they introduced around Warcraft 3 when they blew up Theramore. I suppose it should have been obvious before that point, but that's when it hit me.

>>46067700
My problem with the murder, which
I guess I didn't quite understand myself a moment ago when I wrote >>46067632, is that it kind of has two functions.

The first is that it is illustration of the end of Arthas' character arc. His actual arc is done by the time he faces Mal'Ganis, by which I mean he's made all of the choices that have changed him as a person, and those changes have already taken hold. The murder is his first act as a new man; choosing to do it isn't character progress for him, because the actual progress has been all of the stuff that led up to him being a person capable of doing it in the first place. Arthas is not any different before murdering his father and after murdering his father, unlike before/after killing Mal'Ganis, which is the moment he conciously chooses to listen to the Lich King's whispers, as opposed to simply not knowing what was whispering to him.

So for Arthas' arc, the murder is just the proof of the changes already made, and not another change itself-- therefore, it isn't strictly necessary for a movie about his arc, although it is desirable.

But! The murder is also the BEGINNING incident of a completely new plot arc, which is the collapse of Lordaeron in the face of the Scourge-- this a much less character-focused arc, since the main character, Arthas, doesn't really change at all during this period; it's more plot heavy. Showing the murder of King Terenas begins this arc and then doesn't continue it.

Ideally, I would end the Human movie with Arthas' sinister "succeeding you" and the unmistakeable implication that murder is about to follow, and then begin the next movie with the same scene, only this time including the shadow murder from the cinematic.

>>46067893
>But! The murder is also the BEGINNING incident of a completely new plot arc, which is the collapse of Lordaeron in the face of the Scourge-- this a much less character-focused arc, since the main character, Arthas, doesn't really change at all during this period; it's more plot heavy. Showing the murder of King Terenas begins this arc and then doesn't continue it.
> Ideally, I would end the Human movie with Arthas' sinister "succeeding you" and the unmistakeable implication that murder is about to follow, and then begin the next movie with the same scene, only this time including the shadow murder from the cinematic.
So? It's a demi-cliffhanger.

Shit, that's less unresolved than Empire Strikes Back.

>>46067893
Really unnecessary over analyzing there.
The murder is fine as a finishing point as it shows beyond a shadow of a doubt old Arthas is dead and we have New Arthas instead.
You're saying the same thing 20 times and it doesn't make it any more "cinematic" to split it up like that.
You're just introducing something shocking and then cutting away from the moneyshot. Not even giving the audience the shadow of the moneyshot. You're just getting them ready and then cutting off right as the important and SERIOUS even is about to happen.
It's like in Avengers 2 when Captain America begins to say "Avengers..." and then it cuts before he could say "assemble."
But that's a cheeky joke cut meant to cocktease you, even though it's the second fucking Avengers movie and there doesn't need to be any god damn cock teasing.
What you're describing is like in Star Wars, having Luke trust in the Force, turn off his targeting computer and then running credits just as the proton torpedoes are about to shoot down the vent.
It just fucks up the tension that's building.
Putting in the final moments in the next movie would do nothing to patch up the failure to seal the deal previously.
Just look at how badly the Hobbit movies fucked up the tension by devoting the first ten minutes of the third one to finishing off the events of the second one.

>>46062195
>It will be different than what some old, white guy wrote in a second world-war trench".
>second world-war trench

I'd forgotten how stupid Duncan can sound when he opens his mouth, but Lord, that is FUNNY.

>>46066943
if you took away the video game aspect that post could be on pol or gif with ease

>>46067297
>>46067772
>I honestly miss Thrall and Jaina's entire dynamic but that shit's gone now.
god this. I loved the argent tournie scenes in WotLK where Garrosh and Varian are at each others throats and its only Thrall and Jaina keeping things from exploding. Damn shame that the decided to kill war 3's legacy with cataclysm

>>46068018
No, see, the "succeeding you" line is the release of tension, that's the point at which it is confirmed Arthas is going to murder his father-- the actual murder is a formality. Your Star Wars analogy is flawed because this isn't the climax of the movie; Arthas facing Mal'ganis is the climax, and this is the denoument.

>You're just introducing something shocking and then cutting away from the moneyshot.
It isn't shocking, though, because it should come as no surprise-- the shock, if there is one, is when Arthas accepts that he's damning himself by wielding Frostmourne, when Mal'Ganis asks what it's whispering to him and he says that it whispers he'll have his revenge. Your "moneyshot" is him actually killing Mal'Ganis, which absolutely should be shown. After that killing his father isn't shocking at all, because the audience already knows Arthas is damned-- it's just a confirmation of what we already know, and the line is confirmation enough. Less is more.

As for >>46068010, Empire Strikes Back can get away with a cliff hanger because it isn't the first movie in the series-- You'll notice that A New Hope has an ending that can stand on its own.

>>46067772
I didn't realize that until you pointed it out
>Arthas is dead
>Malfurion,Tyrande and the Night Elves are irrelevant
>Thrall's not warchief
>Theramoore's blown the fuck up and Jaina lost her idealism
>Rexar's painfully irrelevant

>>46068255
It's really not.
You're so fixated on believing Mal'Ganis is the end of Arthas' story that you want to push a terrible idea of an ending in a fictional movie that will never happen because Warcraft 1 will not generate the revenue needed to get a single sequel made, much less five.

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You know what, I'm just going to fucking say it;

I like WarCraft orcs better.

I like WarCraft orcs the best, in fact.

You can get your savage dickfaced faggot racist green cavemen with them. You can get your highly spiritual people lost on a diaspora trying to find their place in this new world that rejects them. You can your honorable warrior as much as bloodthirsty murderer. You can get cunning engineering and machines of war. The Horde element only adds to them, while traditional Orcs have goblins, at best, as their underling bitches. And mostly to use as food or cannon fodder.

Face it, they're more nuanced, even if its at the cost of some writers and players being obnoxious about it at times.

>>46068310
I agree, but only if we're ignoring Warcraft orcs in Cata and onwards.

>>46068307
I don't get how you can think Mal'Ganis isn't. That's how choice-driven character arcs work. The cinematic we're talking about is literally the epilogue to the Human campaign!

>>46067893
The murder of Terenas is the end of Arthas's growth as a character. You said it yourself, killing Mal'Ganis shows him choosing the power of the lich king. However killing his father is the act that shows how far he has fallen.

The scourge arc, while does involve my favorite character, probably does not necessitate its own movie. Even if it means I have to miss out on KT's sexy voice.

>>46068387
Which means the end should run all the way to the end as shown in the cinematic.
We're just trying to tell you how stupid your idea is to cut off the final few seconds.

>>46068398
I would argue that his character growth (if his arc can be called "growth"-- his character change, at any rate) is already done at that point because he's stopped changing. You're right that we see how far he's fallen-- but he's already fallen there, and all we're doing is seeing the proof. This is conclusion stuff, not climax stuff.

>>46068310
thank. you. Ive been saying this for a long time but modern blizz apologists always have some stupid reason why its better now that "orcs r gud now, NO MORE WAR IN WARCRAFT"

i love the shaman aspect of the orcs, but why cant i go full retard once in a while and play the part of a barbarian raider orc like we're supposed to??? its a HORDE dammit, not an "architecturally challenged family," jeez man

>>46068401
The final few seconds are the crown rolling down the steps and Arthas saying "This kingdom will fall", which leads directly into the Undead arc, which I agree with >>46068398 does not need to be a movie. The not showing the murder thing is partly to not get into that next arc at all, and partly because I think it's better left to the imagination-- they already do that a little with the shadow, and I think it's better without even that-- unless you think audiences don't actually know what succeeding a king even means, which I grant is probably more true than I'd like.

>>46068381

I think they fit insofar as they provide the dickhead tech-barbarian brand of Orcs, but yeah, they were terribly used and utilized.

Would it have really hurt to have an New/Iron Horde as a separatist faction of asshole Orcs produced by Garry fucking up too much and causing an Orc civil war - but not being the front-man for them? Maybe the result of fed-up generals wanting to 'oust him in a coup, backed by the Goblins looking to restructure Horde leadership so its completely in their pocket. All after being economically buttfucked by the Alliance of course.

>>46068476
>and I think it's better without even that-
It's not. And you'e an idiot for thinking so.

>>46068461
I feel like the job of Warchief has actually gotten away from what it should be. I mean, in the normal course of orc life, the clan is your basic social unit, and you owe allegiance to your clan chief. You don't even follow a Warchief unless the clans are uniting specifically to fight a war. In a cold war situation, like WoW has had for a long time whenever hostilities aren't flaring up, the Warchief shouldn't actualy have any power if there even is one.

It would open up the possibility for a lot more diversity, if every clan was basically doing its own thing-- you could have your raiders and your shamans and your demon worshippers without it being a reflection of the guy in charge, since ultimately, there wouldn't be one.

>>46068440
The climax would probably be the burning of strathholm. Malganis and his father are falling actions and formalities

>>46068510
I think it's probably a matter of taste. Did you know the first time a movie showed a gun firing and then showed the effect on a human being of that gun firing was in 1967? Bonnie and Clyde. Until that point it was all camera work to imply but never show, because of the then-current state of censorship. And they still made powerful movies, even without showing. I happen to like the power of that kind of implication, and I guess my taste is out of favour with modern sensibilities. Whatever, man. I'm done arguing with you.

>>46068556
Good. Leave. And take your terrible ideas and pathetic lack of understanding of story and moviemaking with you.

>>46068497
the Iron Horde should have been a separatist faction of Mag'har and former Dark Horde Orcs that would take over certain Horde territories and big chunks of Outland. No fucking time travel bullshit, as cool as it was before the lore rape set in

>>46068524

Nah I could see it because of how their diaspora and, what, 40? years on Azeroth has influenced them culturally. They needed a Warchief to keep that shit together and get Durotar settled.

Its not until say, prior to Cata that the position was starting to feel redundant. Plus it would have had a ton of cool plots if various clan chiefs were trying to muscle in more personal power or go against the Warchief, maybe even forming their own unspoken alliance against Thrall's camp.

>>46068581
That would be great, and couple it with the other races pressuring the orcs of the new Horde to admit to past transgressions

And Thrall having to admit to himself that as much of an inspiration as Orgrim was, he was also a monster that took pleasure in sowing fear and destruction amongst noncombatants

>>46060847
You know, I hope that when people watch this film, they come away with the exact opposite of what Metzen wants. I hope they come away thinking "man, those Orcs are fucking dicks, I hope they get destroyed in the Second film", which in turn would inspire all kinds of rage in the Blizz writing team.

>>46068610
True enough. I think there's also a huge degree of cult of personality that started with Orgrimm and continued with Thrall that would make people want to keep them in charge even when normally they'd go back to be a loose collection of clans. It would make>>46068581 separatist faction more interesting, too, since you'd have Azeroth orcs going "of course we need a warchief, we've always had a warchief and it's always been great, mostly, what are you talking about" and then Mag'har who never left Draenor going "Why do you still have a Warchief, you aren't fighting anybody, what is wrong with you".

>>46062786

Nazgrim.

>>46068524
yea agree. of course most players would consider that regression to have the orcs segregate themselves again among their own, but it would make for so much more compelling story telling. for the last like, what? 4 or 5 x-packs now, we've had to "band together to fight the common enemy!" and it's old now. I want to log into my alliance tons and knock horde heads for g8 justice, and I wanna log into my horde toons and ravage the alliance country side. sorry, i find that more fun than brewing guild drama over loot and leadership

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>>46068723
And that's why they're bringing him back in Legion.

>>46068750

Good, he was the only decent thing to come out of the nuHorde.

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>>46068773

What about big-tittied ogre bitches?

... What, the nuHorde didn't have that? Well, fuck 'em, in that case.

>>46066854
Nice meme.

Replaying Wc3 RoC and there's a really interesting track that plays after you beat the Blackrock as the scourge. Some kinda fucked-up demonic chanting.

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>>46068895
Stay mad, kraut.

>>46066575
Honesty? Much worse things have been said about Tolkien by people who are given a great deal of respect by fantasy fans.
Michael Moorcock, Joe Abercrombie, Phillip Pullman - all respected authors. All douchebags when it comes to their flippant, ignorant opinions on Tolkien.

>>46068524
The Alliance has the same issue with the "High King" position, which should be more like a Supreme Commander seat, but seems to be the full leader of the Alliance with the way it's shown.

>>46068748
'Band together to fight the common enemy' is the only plot that Blizzard knows.

>>46069348
I wish there was more of it. Fuck the facrion conflict.

>>46069368
True. You've reminded me that they know *two* plots.
1)Band together to fight the common enemy.
2)This guy over here for no good reason has decided to be an asshole, so we hate each other again.

See also: Diablo and StarCraft.
It gets old.
(Also? I know it's just a typo, but I kinda want to fight whoever the Facrions are.)

>>46069403
>2)This guy over here for no good reason has decided to be an asshole, so we hate each other again.

WoD kinda ignored that justification for PvP, though. It was just kinda, "This island has stuff. Fight for it," which I'm kinda okay with, since the war against the Iron Horde was a joint effort from start to finish, so having the Alliance and Horde being in open war while also dealing with the threats on Draenor---another world in another timeline, virtually cut-off from their own---would've been really, really dumb.

However, Legion seems to be bringing back a justification for PvP, with having Sylvanas as Warchief and Genn becoming High King. During a massive demonic incursion, of course.

I like the two factions teaming up against a common enemy, but I also like them being at war. I just wish Blizzard would stop having the two happen at the same time; it's very confusing, and fairly stupid how these two groups can murder each other while simultaneously taking a stand against cosmic-level threats.

>>46069460
>Sylvanas as Warchief and Genn becoming High King
...I didn't know.
I'd been away since last year.
Guess I'm staying away.

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>>46068461
>architecturally challenged family

>>46069460
>with having Sylvanas as Warchief and Genn becoming High King. During a massive demonic incursion, of course
I know it's dumb, but I do like that they are pushing the faction fighting.
I mean, when Garrosh started being a massive cunt as Warchief in Cata and the effort to bring players back home to Azeroth and making their capital cities actual CENTRAL places they want to be, it felt like the right choice.
Especially since we had just finished the whole Lick King story which was all about how we all have to come together and hold hands and sing kumbaya to beat it, it was nice to see people are still dicks and there's good reason for the Alliance/Horde divide.
Not to say Garry dindu nuffin, but at least he made it feel good to kill Horde players again.

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>>46069477
>>46069460
Sylvannas' first thing to do as a Warchieftess is to bring DEATH TO THE ALLIANCE! AND DEATH TO THE LIVING!

Second is finding away to deal with the Legion.

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>>46069513
death to the living first, death to the quasi-living after. Then death to the non-living who haven't accepted the Lich Queen

>>46069477
Yeah, I don't think anyone really knows how either happen exactly, but it's confirmed that both are in those positions, at least for a while.

Vol'jin has fucked-off somewhere apparently, and Sylvanas has stepped-in as Warchief. How? No idea. She's gotta have a 0% approval rating in the Horde at this point, so elements know how she was sworn-in. There were jokes that she has plague bombs in all the Horde capital cities, but it would not surprise me at all if that was the case. Actually, I think it'd be interesting.

As far as Genn goes, Varian is believed to be dead via landfall on the Broken Isles (depicted in the cinematic). How he managed to step into that position is beyond my guess. He's at least not widely-hated like Sylvanas, but he doesn't really have a leg to stand on, since he is rather lacking in a power base. I think Genn may be one of Anduin's mentors, so maybe that's how it happens.

>>46069502
Yeah, faction war can be fun if it's justified adequately, like in Cataclysm. There's still the threat of the Twilight Cult and Deathwing, but they weren't a huge part of it until the later levels; low-level players mostly experienced the war, which is cool. And I do love factional pride, even as a primarily-Alliance player (I love the Horde too, but the fanboys make it difficult for me to enjoy sometimes).

I'm cool with faction war, it just needs to be dealt with in an appropriate narrative manner. Instead of, you know, staring up at an Eredar so massive you can look up his skirt as his cock glows green with massive fel power and thinking, "You know, it's the end of the world as we know it, but that Orc guy on the other side of this demon's hoof is really getting on my nerves..."

>>46069513
>Second is finding away to deal with the Legion.

>They can't kill us if we're already dead!

>>46069575
>"You know, it's the end of the world as we know it, but that Orc guy on the other side of this demon's hoof is really getting on my nerves..."
Yeah, well he was doing his stupid MC Hammer dance like it didn't get old 10 years ago.

I distinctly recall there being music for the finally battle with Arthas in Wrath, but I can never find the track that was actually played.

Looking it up only ever gives me the music from the cinematic for WotLK

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>>46069589
>Yeah, well he was doing his stupid MC Hammer dance like it didn't get old 10 years ago.

Maybe it's because I'm tired, but that got me to laugh harder than it should've.

>>46069595
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJ8iSLqfEQcLsU920YDpMLo21dK5u-Rxq

Check in here, maybe?

There's a lot, so you may want to sit back with a drink.

>>46069575
The Forsaken are kinda like Israel.

Where does Ironforge get its food from?

Are there farms around loch modan that we don't see? Or underground fungus farms or something inside the mountain?

>>46069677
Expansionist assholes who use a past tragedy done to them as a get out of punishment free card?

>>46069696
There were supposed to be farms in Dun Morogh, but there were a few in Loch Modan, yeah, I remember at least one.

>>46069696
There are dwarf farms in the Wetlands along the mountainside. Used to not be easily reachable, but super easy now with flying mounts.

There aren't any NPCs there though, I think. It's just there for decoration.

>>46069738
>>46069746
Ok cool

Another question, this far more subjective

If you were to rewrite the events of Cataclysm, would you have Deathwing devastate Ironforge?

>>46069717
>>46069677
And a nation in the Old World, surrounded by enemies, aided by an alliance with a superpower in the New World.

>>46069762
No.

>>46069762
Eh, then you have to write stories for the dorfs AND gnomes being displaced. Probably to Stormwind.

>>46069779
and they constantly hang the threat of WMD's over the heads of their allies and enemies alike

>>46069779
Also having strange target priorities at times.

But everyone in WoW has strange priorities.

>>46069779
So, Lordaeron is Muslims?

>>46069803
>Focus fire on that Pit Lord!

>But there's a defenseless dwarf village RIGHT THERE!

>>46069575
>Vol'jin has fucked-off somewhere apparently
Officially, Vol'jin is MIA, possibly presumed dead. It may or may not be by choice, but knowing troll cunning, he's almost definitely laying low and planning something big since he's been forcibly thrown out of the picture.

>>46069762
He tried. Magni stopped him from collapsing the city when he fused with its diamond heart.

Also, spewing lava at a mountain wouldn't do too much unless he just sat there and bored at it.

So I guess no? I'd see him having a bigger grudge with the elves, so he'd try to roast Teldrassil.

>>46062291
Nice pajamas.

>>46069823
>Vol'jin is MIA, possibly presumed dead
...AGAIN?!?

>>46069575
>There were jokes that she has plague bombs in all the Horde capital cities, but it would not surprise me at all if that was the case. Actually, I think it'd be interesting.
>Sylvanas literally holding the Horde hostage
Now THAT would be a hell of a gimmick. It wouldn't be like Garrosh's occupation of the Undercity, either.

>>46069575
>Vol'jin has fucked-off somewhere apparently
>implying Sylvanas didn't kill him

>>46069858
She tried, she failed.
He'll be back.

>>46069789
>>46069790
>>46069826


Thanks

>>46069869
>Insane evil ruler tried to have Vol'jin killed
>Failed
>He'll be back
No, seriously, AGAIN?!?

>>46069869
If there's one thing you can count on, it's that killing a troll is really hard to do.

>>46069886
Furthermore, when they want to, a troll can be insanely slippery.

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>>46069884
What? You expect Blizzard to come up with something actually new?

>>46069886
>it's that killing a troll is really hard to do.

He's bringin' Zul'Jin back with him.

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>>46069900
I'M THROWING MONEY AT THE SCREEN AND NOTHING IS HAPPENING

>>46069898
I shouldn't find that pic so goddamn adorable.

>>46068831
This OC is awful.
"Hey, let's just draw a two-headed orc and call it an ogre."
Fuck off.

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>>46069907
I really shouldn't find Jaina so adorable. But I do.
Especially her little cheongsam she wears from Heroes of the Storm's Lunar Festival.>>46066274

>>46062075
Orgrimmar is a rubble filled crater pawed over by scavengers and greenskins looking for their dead. Sen;jin was wiped out as an afterthought. Undercity is cordoned off by /vastly/ superior Allied air power and Silvermoon is given an ultimatum to either declare neutrality and stand own, or face off against the Allied forces in the east. This is merely a mercy granted to them who remember them once being allies.

Thunder Bluff gets it the worst. Admiral Rogers is not an idiot, and so she doesn't even attempt to take the spires. Instead she has loyal Dalarani and vengeful Theramore mages keep the place on lockdown for teleportaion. The, gyrocopters carpet-bomb the surrounding plains with incendiaries and strafe the herds, while keeping an eye out for foraging parties to be attacked. Rivers and lakes are either put under rotating air patrol or poisoned if patrolling ins't doable. Corpses either brought in from the Orgrimmar charnel pit or rotting animal carcasses are then dropped on the settlements atop the spires in mass amounts, mixed in with actual bombing and strafing runs. Day and night, sometimes not even attacking, just making tons of noise and keeping the people awake. After six months of repeated offers to surrender, the Taruen finally break and capitulate.

>>46069677
>>46069717
>>46069779
>>46069798
oy vey

>>46060847
Is that a tooth piercing?
Why would anyone ever want a tooth piercing??

>>46061261
The mag'har are all dead by the the Burning Crusade, the Horde finds remnants of them, but no survivors

No Garrosh, no Aggra, no granny-Thrall, just bones left behind

>>46069996
Tusk piercing, and the tusks are mainly for show, anyway.

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>>46069905
>tfw Amani Trolls weren't the ones to join the Horde
>tfw Zul'jin will never be able to bitch and moan about how Thrall's Horde found a way to be shittier than Orgrim's
>tfw Zul'jin will never encourage Garrosh to be like his father
>tfw Zul'jin will never be the war mongering Warchief
>mfw Zul'jin has been irrelevant for five years

>>46069999
I think the mag'har were fine. I liked Dranosh and WotLK/Cata Garrosh.

But honestly fuck Aggra.

>>46070004
It just seems like getting the piercing would be incredibly unpleasant.
And it just looks odd, like those shitty OCs that have cat ears or some shit but are still wearing normal headphones

>>46070019
WotLK Garrosh was interesting alongside Thrall, but Cata Garrosh came coupled with shit like the Horde suddenly having a fuckhuge navy out of nowhere

I find it hard to separate Cata Garrosh from the huge amount of problems with the Cata Horde

>>46069996
A bad chara-designer i guess.

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Why is Malfurion such a boring asshole?

>>46070038
You wouldn't have much of a personality either if you just woke up from a thousand-year sleep because HOLY FUCK WHY IS EVERYONE BEING SO LOUD AND ON FIRE.

>>46070038
Go to bed, Illidan.

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>>46070038
Too balance his fan favorite edgey brother
>daily reminder Illidan did nothing wrong

>>46070038
Blizzard doesn't know what to do with him. Theoretically, he's powerful enough to wipe out the horde all by himself. So he has to be constrained and stand around with his thumb up his ass not doing anything useful.

>>46070068
Yet another problem created by Cataclysm

What a fucking surprise

Is there anything at all done right in that expansion?

>>46069971

Helps that HOTS Jaina is expressly WC3 Jaina, not White-Haired-Bitch WoW Jaina.

>>46070038
Fuck you, Malfurion is rad.
Since Blizz never use NE leaders for anything it means they're not ruined yet.
Malfurion is better than Illidan.

>>46070062
He did everything wrong, but he did it for the right reasons.

>>46070074
The stone talon mountains quest chain
The Day Deathwing Came

Personally I liked the Shattering other than Aggra BTFO'ing Thrall.

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>>46070079
>>46070085
Malfurion go back to sleep.

>>46070088
>The Day Deathwing Came
Isn't that the lolrandom quest in badlands?
It was kinda fun but nowhere that good.

Stonetalon was nice, too bad it was retconned by Garrosh acting completely in the opposite direction ten month later.

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>>46070058
I AM NOT PREPARED for bed yet.

>>46069971
I'm glad that they at least kept Jaina as her somewhat best character when they threw her into HotS, and not her current shit self

>>46070076
I like Platinum Jaina, both in appearance and zeal.

I liked Bleeding Heart Jaina too, but it got pretty old.

>>46070068
Like Velen.

>>46070088
Oh right, early levelling quest chains in specific areas

Man, a bunch of those were really good in Cata. Even the Forsaken early level questing zones had some good ones. Once you got past Silverpine that is

>>46070098
Yeah it was the quest that was essentially three guys bullshiting what happened when Deathwing caused the Cataclysm.

I enjoyed it for the sheer fact that I was about to get into a knife fight with fuckin' Deathwing

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>>46070062
>daily reminder Illidan did nothing wrong
He failed to keep Maiev satisfied for the full 10,000 years.

>>46070116
sauce

>>46070111
Yep.
Alliance has two super-power faction leaders who are left doing nothing, otherwise it would tip the scales in favor of the Alliance too much.
At least AU Velen did something useful and died.

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>>46060847
Daily reminder that Garithos did nothing wrong.

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>>46070112
>daily reminder Garrosh is the only character that actually calls Sylvannas out on her shit and that she's a bitch

Why was everyone against this great orc again?

>>46070116
So that's why she wanted to recapture him so bad.

Is this rape? He doesn't look happy or sad.

>>46070106
HotS Jaina is, what, WC3-early WoW Jaina?

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>>46070116
He was saving himself for Tyrande

>>46070123
5 seconds on google and you find a whole thread dedicated to the artist.
http://boards.420chan.org/h/res/329330.php

>>46070136
correct

>>46070128
Because he was introduced as warchief alongside a bunch of nonsensical shit.

Suddenly, out of fucking nowhere, the Horde is stronger than the Alliance, after two expansions and the original game featuring the Horde as the weaker of the two factions.

Also, Cata Garrosh was pretty much just WotLK Varian, and that felt awful regardless of whether you liked the Alliance or the Horde more

>>46070125
Except drive one of the Alliance's most powerful allies into the arms of Illidan and eventually the Horde.

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>>46070128
Just because a broken clock is right twice a day doesn't mean you shouldn't replace the clock.

>>46069619
Wellp. turns out Fall of the Lich King isn't in that playlist, so I'd have been waiting a long time.

>>46070137
>The 10,000 Year Old Virgin

>>46070174
>yfw Illidan's purer than fucking Anduin

>>46070150
>losing edge-elves
And nothing of value was lost.

And besides, the Night Elves probably would not have joined the Alliance if the Blood Elves were still a part of them.

>>46070186
But they did work with the Alliance just fine when the High Elves were part of them through the climax of WC3. The whole "blood elf" thing didn't start until Frozen Throne.
And Kael being and edgelord is no reason to turn away the faction that gave the humans fucking STEEL.
Yeah, WC2 mentions that the Alliance's steel was thanks to the elves.