Pathfinder General

>>46020987
What we are talking about

>>46021516
I was specifically avoiding daze.

>>46021504
Regret taking mage armor? It's part of my bloodline, so i can't really not take it.

Its true I don't have web or sleet storm, OR black tentacles. In fact I am lacking in CC options in general. I know that CC is the king of the game, but I was trying to go for more of a glass cannon type of character.

I took magic weapon greater to help my allies save some money on their weapons if they want. Enchantment bonuses get expensive fast. Would you recommend I take black tentacles instead?

>>46021558
where are it's lungs?

So yeah.

Can we get a Make Soulknife Better option that doesnt involve casting, for people who dont want casting, but also dont want to be on the soulknife shortbus.

Preferably not just free Warsoul. Something that works in concert with base soulknife stuff rather than just slapping extra stuff onto its frame.

>>46021664
Right next to her heart, duh

So /pfg/: what's your favorite kind of caster?

My group is playing a mercenary band, mostly neutral with neutral evil tendencies. Party is an ifrit sorcerer focused on fire blasting, a fell rider cavalier, and a blood kineticist. Any recommendations on how to round out this party? All third party is allowed but I'm reluctant to play Path of War, I don't want to completely outclass the kineticist and have it blamed on me for playing third party.

>>46021678
So you want a good martial class without anything that makes classes good?

>>46021689
A cute one!

>>46021646
>magic weapon greater
>enchantment bonuses
You know nothing about styles, MC.

>>46021689
Sphere.

>>46021689
Pyromancers. Jaya Ballard, Megumin, pretty much anything like that. Explosions

>>46021730
>>46021646
Worst typo to make, oops.
You know nothing about convention and style, MC.

>>46021710
They're called class features you dangus.

>>46021678
Nope, fuck off.

>>46021664
In her legs, so the oxygen can get to the leg muscles faster for better running.

>>46021689

Tamamo is my favorite Caster.

>>46021678
You do realize thus desire is contradictory, right? Unless you just give the Soulknife bigger numbers?

Anything used to make a Soulknife better that isn't straight number boosting or errata to currently existing options is by definition adding things to it. DSP has outright stated that it is economically unfeasible to make eratta, so instead they have given the Soulknife options to increase viability that do, in fact, work in concert with the class features.

>>46021689
A super cute beguiler.

>>46021820
They didn't state that it's economically unfeasible. Other people did. DSP just said that the boss people made a choice not to allow them to.

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>>46021818
Good man.

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>>46021793
Wow, rude

>>46021646
>but I was trying to go for more of a glass cannon type of character.
>No Boneshatter
uwotm8

>>46021678
Psionics Expanded: Soul Knife has a lot of Blade skills that are straight up stronger than most options from Ultimate Psionics.

Without tacking on 1-4 powers, that's the best you can get.

>>46021849
Unless you're assuming their bosses have pointy hair, saying "boss says no" when you're a small business basically means "economically unfeasible".

>>46021678
blade skill every level
8+Int skill points

>>46021901
Something something, backwards compatability to 3.5.

Despite soulknives existing in 3.5 already.

>>46021830
Perhaps a kitsune one?

>>46021930

Is there ever another kind?

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Don't hide it from me, /pfg/.
Tell me about your unfinished or unplayed character build ideas.

>>46021922
Neither of those things is even remotely necessary. The Blade skill thing gets better and better the more Blade skills they write (and they're starting to be significantly higher-powered than they were previously), and Soulknives have no reason to be trying to muscle in on Skillmonkey territory.

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>>46021947
A beguiler beguiler!

>>46021930
I won't lie, that sounds pretty cute.

>>46021922
Something like this would work. More bladey, instead of more psychic like gifted blade does.

The archetype if not taken as a free one could swap out psychic strike. Maybe wild talent too.

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Alright, /pfg/, help me out here.

We're playing in the aftermath of our GM's old Kingmaker campaign for his old group, and we've gotten word that the new kingdom's taking in a large number of settlers from Taldor, Qadira, and Galt.

The party's doing all it can to help folks get settled, but the Taldans and Qadirans won't stop fighting each other for space and the few Galtans keep acting like even after being driven from their estates their old noble titles still mean anything. The rest of the party has little problem with this, but my Shield Champion's having a crisis of alignment. Can he really still call himself Neutral Good if he has difficulty trusting these people? Can he still call himself just and generous if he's wondering why these people don't go somewhere closer like Andoran or Absalom? Can he really say he sympathizes with their plight and the situation in their homelands when he doubts they plan on ever going back and rebuilding?

>>46021962
All of them?!

>>46022011

this

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Alright people, Gareth went to bed but he wants input and feedback on his project:

Playtest for Lords of the Mists - the Midway Faire: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pBP7kQ14gCc-xTsjIdK7EJov38IpDZFG73anj6KyifI/edit?usp=sharing

>>46021689
I am rather fond of Mesmerists.

Why yes, I did come to that conclusion completely on my own, with no outside influence whatsoever. Why do you ask?

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Often I see people complain, "You can't just always find exactly whatever items you want to buy wherever you are!" But what if you can? Suppose your party had something like a bell they could ring to summon an outsider merchant who will sell them anything they want, for the right price. Armor, scrolls, wondrous items, whatever.

How would you balance that? Sell stuff at a small mark up, have the outsider refuse to appear inside dungeons and other dangerous places? How would you role play that? Did the merchant meet the PCs at some point and give them the bell because he knew adventurers are a figurative gold mine, and is he entirely trustworthy?

>>46022011
As many as you dare.

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>>46021962
Gestalt character specialized for kicking.

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>>46022036
Just reposting then

Most of this is pretty great.
Though, if you're talking Fey, then shouldn't you have mentioned mythologies' notable fey race the Tuatha De Danann?

>The Tuath(a) Dé Danann are a race of supernaturally-gifted people in Irish mythology. They are thought to represent the main deities of pre-Christian Gaelic Ireland. Many of the Irish tales of the Tuatha Dé Danann refer to these beings as fairies, though in more ancient times they were regarded as goddesses and gods. The Tuatha Dé Danann were spoken of as having come from islands in the north of the world or, in other sources, from the sky. After being defeated in a series of battles with other otherworldly beings, and then by the ancestors of the current Irish people, they were said to have withdrawn to the sídhe (fairy mounds), where they lived on in popular imagination as "fairies."
>They are associated with several Otherworld realms including Mag Mell (the Pleasant Plain), Emain Ablach (the Fortress of Apples or the Land of Promise or the Isle of Women), and Tir na nÓg (the Land of Youth).

I'm also certain that Changelings, Pixies, Nymphs, Satyrs, Dullahans, Spriggans, Kolobok (inspiration for the muffin man and the gingerbread man, and arguably Pinocchio) several Yosei (Japanese fairies like the Koborokuru (Japanese Lilliputians) Mujina (badger people), Tanuki (raccoon dog people), Nekomata & Bakeneko (cat people) and Inugami (dog people) are all considered Fey.

I'm not forcing or anything, just throwing ideas to see if any of these would stick.

>>46021689
Honestly, Sorcerer. I like the look of this supposed spontaneous CHA Druid coming up, too.

>>46021991
Just play fucking Path of War you mong.

>>46022065
Aren't the sidhe themselves tuatha de?

>>46022041
Mercanes and Witchwyrds exist to be Mysterious Merchants.

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>>46021689
The cute and destructive kind

>>46022081
What about people who dont like PoW? Or is that forboden wrongthink?

>>46022039
Sounds like a beguiler for faggots tbqh

>>46022118
I don't understand that point of view.

>>46022118

Not liking PoW is thoughtcrime in /dsp general/

>>46022118
Its "against the dropped-trip shillers" think.

>>46022066
I want to love sorcerers, but that spell level hitch triggers my autism.

>>46021962
Shield Master/Gunslinger

>>46022118
We can't help you if you don't want to be helped.

Initiating is 100% better than not being able to use Initiating. Not only does it solve a bunch of the problems for martials (including being gimped when you have to move and attack, as well as not having solutions to avoid/mitigate incoming attacks and spells), but it gives them narrative power they just don't have otherwise.

If all you want to do is full attack, the base Soulknife is already pretty good at it. If you want to play an objectively inferior type of character, don't complain when your abilities are objectively inferior. There is nothing WRONG with playing that subpar archetype (or lack thereof), so just suck it up and do it if you want to so badly.

>>46021962
Zen archer who died at level 3. He was just trying to support his family because he had twins on the way and farming wasn't going to feed a family of six.

>>46022065
T-That's a lot of possible Fey races, anon.
Lets break it down

>Changelings
Want
>Pixies
Want
>Nymphs, Satyrs
Meh
>Dullahans
YES!
>Spriggans
I checked their bestiary. Meh.
>Kolobok (inspiration for the muffin man and the gingerbread man, and arguably Pinocchio)
No
>Koborokuru (Japanese Lilliputians)
Halflings
>Mujina (badger people)
Maybe
>Tanuki (raccoon dog people)
Someone already made a homebrew
>Nekomata & Bakeneko (cat people)
Catfolk
>Inugami (dog people)
Skinwalker

>>46022138
not like pf has a quality beguiler class yet

>>46022179
I like how many spells per day they get. Also the decision-paralysis part of choosing spells happens at level up, not during game sessions.

>>46022208
...but it does? Somebody mentions ertw's Beguiler at least once a thread.

>>46022187
>objectively inferior
>doesn't break the fucking game
Go away shill.

>>46022240
Probably meant publisher printed, not just homebrew. Not that there's a real difference quality wise.

>>46022240
>quality

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>>46021689
Best Caster

>>46022187
Yes initiating is more powerful, but that doesn't mean it's instantly more appealing to everyone. Just like how casting isnt instantly more appealing to everyone.

>>46021962
Steelfist commando, sharding AoMF.

>>46022118
Then you either have spells/SLAs, or you accept that having "hit stuff" be your only ability makes you a crappier character than someone with a grab bag of useful tools.


>For a non 1PP only Combatant:
Some good options:
>Cleric, and 1-dipping a melee class like fighter, if you want more combat ability.
>Synthesist
>Magus
>Paladin
>Monk/Unchained Monk (with precision use of archetypes).
>Combat Focused Druid (High Str, focus on summons and buffs, you only need WIS high enough to cast your spells at that level.)

Those are my main 1PP suggestions for a combat-focused character.

>>46022041
This is why I made magic items not magical, and just had them be very complex, finely crafted weapons, armor, etc within reason.

Merchants in cities keep a range of weapons, armor, etc ranging from 1-5 generics. Black Smiths can make more complex items on request, and you have to find a specialist if you want something really maverick.

And even if you want more "traditional" fantasy, I'd imagine most metropolitan areas would keep the basic six. Headbands, Wands, Potions, Cloaks of Resistance, Belts, because just about anyone will appreciate those.

>>46022118
If you want a non-psionic soulknife, use path of war. If you don't like path of war then play 1pp.

If this does not please you and the only solution that comes to your mind is to force soulknife into giving up its core flavor/concept, then fuck you.

>>46021689
Kineticist Psions
>>46022194
Skinwalkers aren't dog people, pig people, shark people, or whatever.

They're basically natural lycanthropes, a Dog Skinwalker isn't the same as a Dog Person, because the Skinwalker's default form is human.

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>>46022099
I want more archwizard clan!

>>46021692

What level?

At higher levels it might be fun to pull some shenanigans to free the Kineticist from burn damage. Be a Medium and give the Kineticist a ring of minor spellstoring with mind swap for instance.

>>46022248
>hurr durr they can one-shot monsters!
>hurr durr this is somehow different from barbarians and fighters and all the other t4 classes that are good at hitting things with a stick!

>>46022295
This is a more reasonable argument, but sadly, you're complaining to a group that doesn't give a fuck if you like it or not.

>>46022248
You know what else noninitiating, non-casting, non-ki using "martials" are objectively inferior to?

Fucking everything else in the game.

PoW is designed to try to keep up with classes like Magus, not classes like Core only Monk & Rogue.

Yes, a few disciplines overshot the mark in general, and many of the others in the first book overshoot the mark a bit from lv1-6, in terms of damage output. It's not perfect, and could use the errata which has been announced but is a ways off.

But in-general, that's where they land.

>>46021692
>blood kineticist
Brother, a stiff breeze is going to outclass that guy.

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>Griffon
>Lion

Which would you say makes the better mount?

>>46022420
>>46022431
>shills everywhere
We have already been over this.
PoW does 7cha barbarian damage while ahving superior AC, Saves, Skills, fucking everything. Its likve giving a well rounded genearlist character Barbarain tier damage.

The 7cha barbarian is a PROBLEM, not a solution.

Stop shilling. Soon I'll just make a copypasta for this to save myself some time.

>>46022532
Griffon, no contest.

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>>46021962
A Cavalier who adventures in search of death.

As a child, he was the youngest member of a group of bandits who, at the behest of their leader, launched a vengeful crusade against the local fey, supported logistically by their raids on trade caravans and weapons stockpiles. It all began when the leader's dad ran off with a Leanan Sidhe when said leader /himself/ was a child. He never forgave them.

One night, they found a village that was rumored to be under heavy fey influence - and slaughtered everyone within. While most of the band reveled, the leader and the Cavalier-to-be realized just how far they'd gone.

For their leader, it was in that moment that he decided he could never go back - that he had damned himself utterly. He continued his genocide, not out of hatred but with the sense in his heart that he had burned every other bridge - that even if he repented then and to the end of his days, it would not matter.

For the Cavalier-to-be, who had killed other /children/ that night, it was the last straw.

He took a pony, ran away, and was never seen again. From the River Kingdoms out to Varisia, never stopping until he was sure no one knew his name. Since then, he has dedicated himself to finding an executioner for his sins - and taking as many monsters and madmen down with him as possible.

>>46022555
Okay, but I actually enjoy the PoW classes so I'll continue to play and suggest them.

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>>46022286
She's better as an old hag oniifam

>>46022496
Anon, the Air Kineticist is shit as well.

>>46022587
And you're better pleasing old men for money

>>46021558
How many gender swap effects are there in PF?

Girdle obviously and what else?

is there a handbook for this homebrew beguiler nonsense?

>>46022585
Stealing this for an NPC. My Order of the Sword player would love to encounter this guy.

>>46022555
You got a rebuttal too.

There are two broken disciplines, generally speaking, and the original PoW puts out too much damage during rusty dagger shanktown levels.

PoW still provides a wide assortment of martials with options besides "hit stuff"; and is therefore going to make more reasonable characters in a party with nonmartials than the guy who can *ONLY* hit stuff.

PoW can be not perfect, and still be preferable to the shitty fighter/gunslinger/swashbuckler/rogue/core only monk.

I can agree with many of its criticisms and still recognize it's superiority as a choice to Paizo's worthless alternatives.

>>46022634
There are potions that can do it. Like, fairly cheap ones.

>>46022634
Probably some polymorph effects. Elixir of sex shifting.

>>46022555
The Barbarian is also mostly incapable of doing anything outside of combat. He's squarely T4. T3 is the target. That's where most Initiators end up.

I imagine you don't give a fuck about Wizards and Clerics, but once somebody starts hitting shit hard, oh no, better bust out the nerfbats!

Players and DMs like you are the reason that martials have been utter garbage for FAR too long. The less developers listen to you whiny fagbags, the better off we'll be.

>>46022414
Starting at level 3, ending at 15 or so.

>>46022555
>7cha Barbarian

What the fuck do you mean by this, you mong? A Barbarian dumping Cha like a crazy ex doesn't magically give them a Synthesist Summoner to ride, Greater Beast Totem and a Courageous Valorous Lance of Anal Armageddon.

>>46022749
He's complaining about PoW damage output and saying it's too high.

He's also saying it's bad to have a character that can shit out the same kind of damage as a barbarian without being absolutely worthless at everything else.

>>46022838
To be clear:

I agree with point #1. Original PoW Damage is too high.
Point #2 is retarded, however.

So, about the arcanist again, is any of thr class variants on the srd worth anything? they seem all inferior to the vanilla one

>>46022949
How is the occultist inferior at all? Standard action summons that last 10x as long without having to prepare them.

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Assuming gestalt and level 13, what's the most "heroic" combination of classes you can think of?

Basically a fantasy version of Alexander Nevsky - Cavalier is a given, but what else?

>>46022838
Thank you for your retard to English translation. PoW damage is on the high end, as it's trying to play chicken with Save or Die casters. This arms race is mostly optimization theorists measuring dicks and does cause problems at tables. Classes should be measured on how well they contribute to the group in all aspects, not just how fast they can kill things.

The second point is straight retarded, since Barbarians have a decent skill list and useful-ish abilities out of combat in the 1-6 level range. More importantly, being useless at everything but X is bad design and unfun, so getting one's panties in a twist that an option potentially dodges that is crazy.

>>46022996
Paladin / Oracle for me. Literal knight in shining armor with a mount (Not that I would personally choose the mount, I hate having to keep track of additional critters) and spells to help heal/save others.

>>46022949
If you mean Archetypes, then yes. The School Savant, Occultist, and Collegiate Initiate are all amazing.
The School Savant sacrifices a couple of Exploits to give you the full benefits of a Wizard's Arcane School, including bonus spell slots.
The Occultist gives you great summoning benefits, with one of the most infamously broken capstones in the game: at will Summon Monster IX.
The Collegiate Initiate feeds well into the Collegiate Arcanist Prestige Class, but it doesn't have to go that route, since it already gives you Druid spells to cast, which can be amazing.

>>46022996
He's a goddamn saint of victory, so I assume Cleric is getting in there somewhere.

>>46022985
Loses flexibility in class feats i guess

>>46022585
That backstory is almost exactly the same as the Cavalier I'm playing in Kingmaker at the moment. With the exception that out of his experiences with the bandits he was raised with while he was young he came the the realization that everyone dies eventually, there's no stopping inevitability and, after having a death-like experience which led to his mind being touched by Groetus, there's really no point in life. Basically he's a nihilist but attempts to hide it, which is tough given that I have his sanity wax and wane with the phases of the moon and have him summon his spectral horse by going into manic screams/terrors which has gotten us nearly ambushed once or twice while exploring and scared the shit out of a few perma-npcs. It's also fun because I'm the face of the party at the moment, to two of our five's dismay.

>>46023081
It only loses two arcana, doesn't it?

>>46022938
Nobody with any sense will argue that some BB, PF, ST, BS and other full attack+ maneuvers aren't retarded. Which is why we're happy that PoW:E will drop soon, so they can get to work on the errata.

>>46022996
I have no idea who that is, buuuuut Paladin combined with Warlord or Bard. Lead your comrades into battle with rallying cries and holy fervor, AND you get a magic horse. Oracle or Sorcerer (especially a Destined Bloodline sorcerer) are also options.

>>46023022
I agree. Barbarians are strong T4 characters because IN ADDITION to doing shittons of a damage (a requirement for martials) they have at least a little utility. They're the absolutely BOTTOM of what martials should be able to do, honestly.

>>46023104
Barbarian Damage is a bit too much, and their utility is too little.

>>46023022
What the fuck is PoW good at other than combat? The shit I see cited like scent or movement types are kinda handy, but you get ridiculously few noncombat things related to all the combat stuff and they're generally combat-adjacent stuff to help you find things to fight or get to fights.

>>46023101
Actually yes, its just two
>>46023041
Well i had no idea, on paper it didn't look too amazing
why summon IX is considered broken exactly? I mean, at will or not there are a lot of limits to it, specially outside the game

>>46023212
You're getting a bunch of useful spells and abilities at will, including basically pocket full casters who are cohort level or slightly lower.

I don't know what you mean outside the game, other than Rule Zero or just not wanting to carry around the sheets?

>>46023148
What's "enough," then? A Barbarian can one-round an enemy of appropriate CR for their level, assuming things are favorable to the barbarian (the enemy moves into range of the Barbarian and lets him full attack, either through pounce or 5ft steps).

Any less than this and the enemy gets the ability to do damage/cast spells/etc. to the party, for 1-2 rounds, which can result in severely injured/weakened/dead PCs. The Barbarian's sole job is to try and prevent this.

>>46023206
Movement options are amazingly important for martials. Beyond that, there are also options that let them bypass terrain/walls/other obstructions that let them actually contribute. You can scout better, you can avoid OOPS THE RAVINE IS FULL OF BOULDERS, and all kinds of stuff that martials just can't deal with without PoW.

>>46023212
The moment a summoned monster is killed you can just bring another in at full health, and a lot of them have spells of their own. There is a reason Conjuration is considered the best school of magic.

>>46023212
While not the best option, being able to summon 4 Celestial Frost Giants via SMIX modified by a rod of Giant Summoning, Augment Summoning and any other feat/item I'm not including is a tad bit ridiculous.

Is Proxy Summoning worth taking? It seems good on paper, but taking two actions to summon and then cast a touch spell seems like a bit much.

>>46023304
Yep, the various hassles that come from having a number of critters to roll for in addition to your character plus the DM being perfectly aware you can shit meatshields at every breath, meaning you'll fight in cramped spaces all the time

>>46023311
>The Barbarian's sole job is to try and prevent this.

I'd argue that a barbarian should be doing comparable DPR (factoring in average enemy AC and DR and hit chance) to a CR+1 monster that's also focused on doing damage. Because that's what CR he's supposed to be per the rules.

Is there any reason to take Summon Good Monster or Summon Evil Monster? The Summon Monster page says that monsters with a certain marking are automatically summoned with an alignment-based template anyway.

By the way, what are good spells to make a caster viable in melee?

>>46023206
I'm not intending to get involved in the argument, but I have a few tricks that are worth remembering when it comes to Maneuvers:

>Objects like doors, walls and floors are assumed to have an AC of 5. They can be targeted with maneuvers.

>There's about 5-7 (don't know for sure, not gonna check) disciplines with stances that offer flight. 2 that offer swim speed and 2 that offer burrow (IIRC).

>Recycling maneuvers allow you to do things like upkeep haste, enlarge person (not exactly, but close), Hide in Plain Sight or energy resistance.

>Save/AC replacing counters can protect you from traps or poisons just as easily as damage.

>Punch your friends to heal them. Or remove status conditions.

>Maneuvers that intimidate, frighten/panic, or certain high level stances can prevent combat before it even begins.

These are just some suggestions, and a lot of what maneuvers do is supplement the class features of initiators. That initiating classes tend to have durable chassis encourages players to take risks because there's a very real cushion in case something goes wrong. I'll grant that using maneuvers as problem solving tools instead of combat effects is not as apparent and can take some level of creative/lateral thinking, but they are tools you can use and it's very rewarding when you figure out a clever way to use them.

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>>46022269

>>46023519
I read that as a sarcastic reason why homebrew isn't allowed generally.

>>46023519
nice meme

>>46023507
>permanent haste
Why is this shit allowed?

>>46023480
True Strike

>>46023346
>lot of them have spells of their own
Uh, wait a second
what happens if i summon something capable of summoning more shit and i order it to do it?

>>46023550
Because one casting of haste lasts the entire combat?

>>46023311
Okay. To be perfectly clear about my opinion, I do think that Path of War is pretty good because it does legitimately give more combat options than "full attack", but I feel that's all it ever does and people seem to overrate that.

So with PoW, you can do:
1. Combat
2. Scout for combat

Non-PoW:
1. Combat
2. Nothing

I'll admit it's still more evidence than I've personally seen in this thread, and it does double what a martial can do, but... what about social roles, for instance? Does PoW do anything other than maybe, maybe encourage the martials to invest in social skills depending on discipline? Everyone keeps saying how much PoW does for fighter types with full-attack alternatives, scouting, and "etc' but what the fuck is that etc?

>>46023507
Okay, that does legit seem pretty cool, and I appreciate you taking the time to detail a list of tricks you can do with initating.

>>46023565
It does it, and its summons are under the control of the creature you control. Also the DM hates you now.

>>46023426
That is definitely something you have to work out with the group and the MC. I like handing out critters to the party if they're down for it. Gives them something to do and lowers overhead.

>>46023565
Summoned creatures can't use their summon abilities, only called creatures can.

>>46023587
No they can't.

>>46023551
And that's it? no buffs, polymorph and shit?

>>46023565
>>46023587
Summons cannot use any summoning effect, or duplicate anything with an expensive material component.

>>46023611
What class are you looking at playing? I've gone Baseball Wizard using a Quarterstaff, but that was when Pathfinder first came out and there are a lot of spells that can compensate your melee ability.

>>46023609
Ok then.
but what's the difference? you need to actually call your buddy in another plane and see if he can come lend a hand?

>>46023581
PoW encourages you to put skill points in more noncombat skills than most, and forces you to have at least one good mental stat.

A lot of PoW maneuvers allow you to do things like alternate movement modes (especially flight), a couple of them have things like healing (mostly worthwhile out of combat) and immunities that help in some environments, and the like. PoW E's maneuvers also have a decent amount of utility things.

Several of the classes themselves also have noncombat abilities; Stalker is a very good scout, Mystic crafts and sets up Batman utility belts, Zealot has telepathy, Warlord's the best wingman in skill situations, etc.

>>46023642
One has the [Calling] tag another has a [summoned] tag

>Calling
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/g/gate

>Summoning
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/summon-monster

>>46023581
Initiators are strongly encouraged to increase their social skills, because they're discipline skills. Where as a Fighter will never think "I NEED TO KEEP MAX RANKS IN SENSE MOTIVE" the Warder or the Warlord totally WANTS to. He's got both mechanical reasons to want it AND it helps him be better at things outside of punching mans.

Also >>46023649

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>mfw I started thinking up slick-ass noble families for that Taldor campaign and got too invested
>mfw I started reading the pre-built ones and the DM's already got houses that cover either those regions or aspects of Taldan society

I just wanted my griffon-riding Normans living in the heartland growing wheat, making wine and fucking cute girls.

>>46023550
Because outside of combat it's pretty much a +30 ft. move speed boost. In combat it's exceptionally useful to the point that it's often ASSUMED to be available for any character capable of benefiting from it in most builds/simulations/expected levels of optimization.

With the ability to upkeep haste and other important martial buffs you can save your allies resources, be sure that your character is ready for combat as soon as it begins and free up your allies to pursue more esoteric buffs that are more specifically tailored to the combat at hand.

It's also fun for talkingreallyreallyfastlikethisatyourtabletogetalaughoutofyourfriendsuntiltheGMgetstiredofyourshitandtellsyoutojustshutupalreadyElric.

>>46023581
Thanks, glad I could offer some insight.

>>46023632
I'm the guy talking about summoning
I was just wondering if there's a way to not just stay back and throw rays whenever between a summon and the other

>>46023668
Oh, they're actually different things

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>>46023686
Elric, I have a question regarding Psionics, if you can answer them.

Can a Psychic Armory take the Additional Configurations blade skill more than once?

>>46021558
/r/ing the full image of whatever that centaur thing was I saw it from the catalog

>>46023695
Ah. Transformation helps if your high level. Otherwise it's Shapechange/-Noun- Shape #/Most Transmutation spella. But if you aren't dedicating yourself to it there's really no point in doing so, as with all melee builds it's feat intensive and there are better options for it.

>>46023674
The more I look at that game, the more I want to play in it, and the less confident I am that I can even begin to put something together.

I'll start this weekend. Way too much crap for work nights.

>>46023737
It doesn't say you can, so I'm assuming that's a no. I don't think it'll break anything if you ask your DM to allow the house rule that you can take it multiple times.

>>46023748
Fuck off. And someone posted the imgur link to the uncensored version of it last thread, Ctrl-F imgur in it.

>>46023737
No they can't. Blade skills can only be taken once unless it specifies otherwise. Additional Configurations does not say it can be taken multiple times.

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>>46021962
>A magus of any description whatsoever, but mostly my nigh stock-standard bladebound/hexcrafter "I wanted to be a paladin but dad won't let me" tielfing
>Summoners, so many summoners, but MAINLY the joke-tier Agathian Aasimar Synthesist Summoner if a quadruped could use a sword in their mouth I fucking would, for MAXIMUM SNOWFLAKE status
>Half a dozen gestalts, probably more
>half of which are part alchemist, most of which take Promethean/Preservationist combo
>A Psychic Armory Soulknife who has no idea what the fuck he is doing
>I don't care what class but I want to play a motherfucking Centaur

Fleshing characters out has to be done in response to the kind of campaign they would get put into, but I still have at least a few "completely" made characters... But mostly just builds ready made for whatever I need them for.

>>46023790
>The more I look at that game, the more I want to play in it, and the less confident I am that I can even begin to put something together.

Literally the only reason I haven't chugged a Red Bull and pulled an all-nighter making an application is because the DM doesn't allow PoW material.

The number of downright heroic and/or thematically amazing characters you could make with a dash of Zweihander Sentinel or Warlord cannot be understated.

>>46022645
Not that I've seen, but if you're not building for optimization there's relatively few ways to build a beguiler you can't work with (short of falling into trap features than all classes should avoid).

If you're working on optimized builds, you're probably better off just building a wizard.

How do people come up with these really esoteric, mystical-sounding fantasy names for things and places and people? You know the kind, where you need at least 12 INT just to figure out how to pronounce the lich's name and half the towns have an apostrophe somewhere in their name.

>>46023810
Damn shame. Thanks Elric.
I was hoping to build a PsyArm that carries several swords with different configurations based on the encounter. So I could have an Anti-caster sword, or an Anti-summon sword, or an Anti-armor sword, etc.

>>46023370
Combine with the archetypes that give standard action summoning.

>>46023843
I was going to make an Aasimar Oradin, but I'm just trying to decide if the organization stuff is something I can really do. I've got like a month still, so I suppose I shouldn't count myself out yet.

I'll probably end up playing him more like a spellcaster who can combat heal, than a beatstick who is good at keeping the party healthy. Who knows.

>>46023891
So make your Daggers Anti-caster, your Light weapons Anti-summon, your 1H weapons Anti-armor, etc. And then have Additional Configuration options to double that.

>>46023891
To be honest, there's not much difference between an anti-summon sword, an anti-mage sword and an anti-armor sword.

Most magic swords end up looking about the same by the end of things.

>>46021962
I want to play a young dragon who gets bullied into acting as the party's junior fighter or spellcaster.

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>>46023842

>If a quadruped could use a sword in their mouth I fucking would

That sounds like a pretty kickass joke, senpai.

>>46023939
>Most magic swords end up looking about the same by the end of things.

You mean, "kill them in a single round in order to not be a threat"?

>>46021962
A fighter with sword and shield[\spoiler]
and I'm fucking serious

Megumin represents the archetypal spellcaster that all spellcasters are being compared to

When an effect is made that changes the way spellcasters work, it is done through the lens of "does this make megumin more powerful or less powerful?"

New spells are always made in the context of either "here's a new spell for megumin to be megumin with" or "here's a thing that megumin can do when not being megumin if she gets bored with being megumin for a little while"

>>46023994

Why would Megumin need a new spell?

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>>46023991

Are you looking for a fighter (the class) using sword-and-shield, or a fighter (someone good at fighting) using sword-and-shield?

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>>46023991
I've always wanted to build a sword and board as well though a warder, not a fighter.

>>46023963
More or less yeah. It's been a while since I read the psychic armory last, but picking out the best WSAs isn't terribly difficult. The good ones might not be super obvious, but the bad ones usually are so it comes down to process of elimination.

>>46023991
Have you met the Warder? http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/classes/warder

>>46023994
Okay.

Captcha, Ben & Jerry's ice cream isn't a beverage.

>>46023991
Get a ring of force shield and suddenly the Ray Shield feat is actually worth taking.

And then you can swap 2h and sword and board in the same action, too.

>>46023994
All casters are now only allowed to cast explosion? I'm on board.

Do we need to make a new tier list, based entirely on which class(es) is the best at explosions?

>>46024039
>using swords
>not dual wielding shields

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>>46023994
I'm on board with this.

>>46024102

There's pretty much no sword + shield build that isn't better off just going shield + shield

>>46024122
There's a perfect shield TWF feat that applies to all shields you wield, right?

>>46024069
Step 1: Take Throw Anything
Step 2: Stack as many Explosive Runes as you want on an object
Step 3: Throw object into enemy's square
Step 4: Send Figment Familiar to Read Magic using Share Spells

>>46023886
It depends.

Sometimes I use words or names from other languages.

I had a Hyrkanian in a Conan campaign whose name was Ganushuh of the Khiyat.

The Khiyat are a clan of Hyrkanians in the Hyborian Age known for their horseback archery.

Ganushuh was me using google translate to mongolian. IIRC it means steel vengeance or something similar.

For elf names, sometimes I consult a Faerunian elven dictionary/phrasebook/name list, and either grab from it or make up something with elements from several names there.

Sometimes I use name generators, and set the cultures to something appropriate, generate 100+, and pick one I like.

>>46024028
And now I'm imagining Meet The X for classes like the TF2 videos.

>>46024167
Drawfags! Get in here!

>>46024167
Iconic that didn't suck for the Psionic/PoW classes would be sick and probably convince some people on the fence about the system to make the switch.

>Class feature based off of alchemist bombs
>But instead of 1d6 damage at level 1, you get to add as many d6s as you want
>Each d6 you add above your level staggers you for 1 hour afterwards

>>46024122
Sharing a build a friend made because its amusing.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_Gl8MmYtqXGDVL42n81zCOnmTeoZ1WOW0T0T9PvLURg/edit

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I want to explode inside Megumin

>>46024167
I've wanted to do some stuff to expand on the Iconics for DSP classes, but haven't really had time except for the short story I'm currently banging my head against a wall to try and write. If I remember tomorrow I'll mention the idea to the other DSP writers. It could be amusing.

>>46024214
We have quite a few iconics. Gareth and I have shared some of them before. The iconics for the Harbinger and Crimson Countess are both in Gareth's Mourners series, for example.

>>46023942
Now I'm sad tome and steel dragons don't exist in PF.

>>46024189
Need a Meet the Iconic with the Living Legend iconic, so they can tell us if they're a guy or a girl.

Also, I want to know more about the Zealot iconic.

>>46024254
BUT FRIEND

WHY IS SHE BLONDE?

>>46024273
>tfw no hikkikomori spellhoarding loredrake tome dragon gf

>>46024223
>Know OOC that there won't be any more encounters today
>15d6 at level 1 to end a boss fight

>>46024365
And how'd you average out to 52.5 damage once/day?

Would people be interested in a savage species type progression for dragon types, in the style of DSP's monster as classes line?

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>>46023947
I would be lying if I said Dark Souls didn't push me to add that to "things I want this summoner to do, because I need to pile more shit on it". The entire Synthesist summoner was an exercise in making a stylistically ridiculous, snowflakey disaster and try to play him as a "simple, ordinary person". Making it so that he's a 10 str asshole lugging around a huge as fuck bastard sword that he uses when he eidolon's up would just add to the comedy of trying to play the character as straight as possible.

If my GM ever lets me play that synthesist, he probably WOULD let me pull that off too, since he absolutely adores Sif.

>>46024381
Pretty good at level 1 when most things have 10-20 HP, maybe 30 if you're feeling fancy.

>>46024360
I actually like that she's blonde, though I generally prefer brunettes. If she was a redhead, then her hair color combined with her outfit would look over saturated and her skin would look washed out. The blonde hair provides a nice color balance that keeps the red from overwhelming the rest of the design.

>>46024357
I'll see if I can convince Forrest to give it a go.

Zealot Iconic? What zealot iconic?

>>46024418
How, anon, how.

>>46021689
Necromancers.

Everyone else is objectively incorrect.

>>46023796
Thanks buddy.

You guys have to learn to not use imgur for image hosting, since they auto compress everything you upload. Compare http://i.imgur.com/w0GHotA.jpg to http://56.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m86hvpjSC01qa3e2do1_1280.jpg

>>46024223
>kineticist
>no cap on burn/round
>can spend burn to multiply blast's damage (1 burn for 2x damage, 2 burn for 3x damage, etc)
Would you?

>>46024391
We are, which is why we wrote one.

>>46024471
DSP confirmed for cribbing materials from players and claiming it as their own.

>>46024489
Anon pls

>>46024471
Why is that relevant to someone's homebrew?

>>46024489
If it's already written I doubt they'd change it. After all, their monster classes are lazy ports of savage species. I bet it's closer to Dragon Magazine's.

>>46024471
You bastards! You stole my idea!

I'm looking forward to it, but please toss in options for stuff like change shape from day 1, trading martial stuff for better spellcasting, spellhoarding-like option for wizard style casting, etc. Things that'll feel like the dragon-specific templates and feats from 3.5 that made them more feasible as PCs.

>At BAB +1, you get vital strike for free
>At BAB +6, you get improved vital strike for free
>At BAB +11, you get greater vital strike for free
>At BAB +16, you get greater+ vital strike for free

>Each time you use vital strike, you can bring the damage bonus down a tier to add a free combat maneuver, or to add AOE to your attack

r8

>>46024489
As a player whose material DSP cribbed, can confirm. Damn you Elric!

>>46024549
An archetype in the style of each Sovereign Archetype from Dragons of Eberron would make me happy.

Wizard dragon, initiator dragon, ninja dragon, cleric dragon, etc.

>>46024523
>their monster classes are lazy ports of savage species
More like ports of the GitP monstrous progression homebrews.

>>46024687
>>46024680
>>46024523
>>46024391
Something sort of like this exists. It's... Not very well balanced, but I put a couple of sheets together that were serviceable, at least.

In the Company of Dragons was the name.

>>46024694
Pretty much. I bought the subscription, but it was entirely for the feats after I saw the Oblivion Guard one.

>>46024725
Is that the one where you can only get X/day dragon breath?

>>46024725
I think dragon magazine had playable dragons anyways, so it's not like it's a new idea.

>>46024725
In the Company of Dragons doesn't FEEL like playing a dragon. It feels like playing someone pretending to be a dragon. Too many lists of things, too many daily limits.

I actually like the savage progression stuff, because of a difference in feel, even if it's generally crap.

I don't expect them to do wizard dragons, initiator dragons, ninja dragons, or cleric dragons, though. I expect them to say "take the Martial Training feats" which I will because they're good.

>>46024694
Which is unfortunate for me, because I really disliked the baseline decisions the GitP people made that these DSP progressions mirror.

>>46024772
>not wanting to play a stealth dragon Harbinger with a burrow speed

Do you even Tremors?

>>46024758
I think so. 3+CON or something like that, with a racial paragon class that had... I think all good saves and full BAB. As a GM I just removed all the daily limits, since they were dumb.

>>46024772
>feel
Anon, you realize there are a fuckton of different kinds of dragon, right? The point of the lists was to ensure that the dragon would have a rounded set of abilities (offense, defense, and utility) that were all dragon-ish.

Regardless, if you can't feel like you're roleplaying a dragon because of how the mechanics of a class designed to support the mechanics of playing a dragon are structured, you have bigger problems with your gameplay, anon.

>>46024800
Please elaborate?

>>46024810
>Anon, you realize there are a fuckton of different kinds of dragon, right? The point of the lists was to ensure that the dragon would have a rounded set of abilities (offense, defense, and utility) that were all dragon-ish.

Dragon-ISH is not "dragon."

I can feel like I'm roleplaying a dragon, sure. I tend to use classes and refluffing for it. However, it still feels off, and this is something that a lot of people have talked about on various forums in the past.

When you play a monster that is THE monster out of the bestiary, it feels more like playing the monster than playing a class meant to emulate that monster but only kinda-sorta.

>>46021962

Paladin Variant Multiclassed into Barbarian. Since he's a Paladin from rural origins he feels that outside of combat he has to maintain an air of beatific calm. People like to tease him knowing that he's getting steamed underneath but can't just deck them for it. He's not one of those if(evil) then(smite) idiots, but when the situation calls for it...


RAGE AND SMITE YOUR EVIL
YOU ARE HUGE
THAT MEANS YOU HAVE HUGE EVIL
RAGE AND SMITE

>>46024803
I'll multiclass out and go into Harbinger with Practiced Initiator, obviously.

This isn't Savage Species, we're not locked into classes.

>>46024772
Help me anon, for I am autistic. What do you mean when you say something feels like a dragon?

>>46024878
Don't alignment restrictions apply to VMC?

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>>46024489

>>46024818
>>46024800
Not that guy, but this is what I find wrong with the SS progression and the GitP homebrew that followed suit with it.

It doesn't really account for the fact that player characters are away and beyond the norm for their species. Yes, monster progressions by necessity have to start off weaker than their bestiary versions so that they are comparable to normal humanoid-ish PCs, but for the most part a monster with 6HD and a 6th level PC are going to be totally different power-wise, with the PC being the more powerful one by far 90+% of the time.

>>46024871
Requiring the exact statblock of a monster to 'feel' like you're playing that monster is, frankly, incredibly retarded, since a monster's stats have absolutely no bearing on its fluff at all.

>>46024913
Nope, not unless it explicitly states. For instance, Monks have to be Lawful to gain Ki Pool (Lawful) as a benefit, but doesn't need to be Lawful for anything else.

>>46024913
>>46024943
VMC barbarians don't have to be non-lawful, and VMC paladins don't even technically need to be LG (they just need to follow the paladin code, which probably means LG but maybe you can slide by with NG or LN).

>>46024943
>>46024986
Awesome

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>>46023842

>>46024523
It's not, necessarily. I'd guessed that anon might be excited to hear it. >>46024549 suggests that I guessed correctly.

>>46024818
It's your level 1 class level as well as your race rolled into one (so you can't opt to not give up any class levels, or to start with real class levels).

It's monster abilities as a standalone class, so once you are done the monster levels you have no class features that scale the rest of the way up. (IIRC, been a while since I looked at it)

There's not really any way to take a monstrous class without losing several levels of casting, even if you pick a mage-type monster.

I'd want them to be class templates/ACFs/Racial feats, plus a base race. Second pick would be a racial PRC (or several) which advances many other class features from actual classes.

>>46024913

As far as I can tell, they don't. There are only a few specific mentions of alignment restrictions, like VMC Monks must be Lawful to use their Ki Pool to make their Unarmed Strikes Lawful aligned.

>>46024687

>Ninja dragon
>"Kyrrthax, what are you doing?"
>"SHUSH. I AM PRACTICING MY NINJUTSU."
>"Really."
>"YES."
>"Looks like you're hanging a dark green tarp over your head."
>"IT IS NOT A TARP. IT IS A NINJUTSU BLIND. IT ALLOWS ME TO BLEND SEEMLESSLY INTO THE VERDANT BACKGROUND."
>"There's a sun with a happy face drawn on it in the corner."
>"I THOUGHT IT LOOKED A LITTLE DREARY."
>"Well, can you come out of there? If you knock over any more trees in this orchard, that farmer's going to be pissed."
>"I WANTED TO TRY OUT THOSE NINJA CLIMBING CLAWS I BOUGHT."
>"You have actual claws. And why would you want to climb any of these trees anyway? The biggest one is like five feet taller than you."
>"I JUST WANTED TO FEEL LIKE A SHADOW IN THE MOONLIGHT."

>VMC
>monster classes

What about VMC monster classes? Ones that are actually worth losing the feats

>>46024906
It's not really something I can explain fully myself, being as it is an emotional response at its core.

But, say... You can take the following:

>AoE elemental attack
>Armored body
>Natural weapons
>Flight
>Minor magic
>Stat ups

The core parts of a dragon are a thing, but you could get the same thing with, say, an Aegis. Or a wizard, or an initiator or a synthesist summoner or whatever. That would get you a reasonable approximation of a dragon that is FAR better for the game than playing a monster out of the book.

To me (and many others, maybe not here, but they do exist), it's not quite enough. In part it's because of the lack of transparency between monsters and PCs. They run on different mechanics and "rules," so playing a PC-as-a-monster feels very different from playing a monster-as-a-PC.

It doesn't have to be exactly like the stat block of the bestiary entry, but when it's closer, it feels a lot more like you're actually playing the monster.

>>46024941
And yet it's something that 'feels' different. Monsters in this game are not built anything like PCs, so playing a PC and refluffing them to be a monster feels like a PC dressed up as a monster, not a monster. It's pretty retarded, but most emotional/'feels' responses are.

Overall, I am a major refluffer. I refluff EVERYTHING. However, I guess this is something that feels weird to me.

I'm a bit of a hypocrite because I laugh at people who refuse to refluff multiclass builds. There's a line that monster classes lie on that I find difficult to refluff though.

>>46024941
>a monster's stats have absolutely no bearing on its fluff at all.
This is the only thing I really disagreed with.

That's BS.

You're not really playing an ogre without large size.
You're not really playing an illithid without the brain eating ability.
You're not really playing a beholder without the eyebeams.
You're not really playing a githyanki if you can't planeshift.
You're not really playing a blink dog if you can't teleport.
You're not really playing a dryad if you can't tree-meld.
You're not really playing a pseudodragon if you're not tiny, poisonous, and flying, with a creature type of "dragon".

to name a few obvious examples.

>>46024521
But it was funny.

>>46025102
Spheres is AWESOME for being a dragon, because Alteration exists. I once played a character who was technically a Dreige Shifter, with the trait that let you concentrate as a move, and I spent all out-of-combat time concentrating on maintaining a dragon shapeshift, and when combat it I'd just drop a spellpoint to maintain it through the fight. Technically I should've unmorphed while I was sleeping, but the DM said it was cool enough to fly.

I suppose I could've just claimed the opposite was true, and I just preferred to sleep in mortal form, because your puny human blankets are more comfortable that way.

Point is, the other players never really realized I wasn't just.. a dragon. And it felt awesome.

>>46025021
What about a racial paragon class with menu-style class features at each level, and like the Incanter's bonus feats, you can trade out certain amounts of them for class features from other classes, or even dunk your saves and BAB for more shit?

>>46025136
The fluff is often clearly just a cobbled-together excuse to have those stats thrown together, and none of the creatures you listed couldn't be completely reflavored as something else with similar abilities.

Ogres could be literally any big smashy retard.
Illithids could be a plant-man hybrid gone wrong that eats whole heads and not just brains.
Beholders could be literally anything you can think of that shoot lasers since eyebeams aren't anything special.
Plane shifting isn't even vaguely a Gith-specific think, tons of monsters can do it at will.
Blink dogs Dimension Door, not Teleport; regardless, you could reflavor them wholly, especially if you have their Dimension Door go through a different transitive plane or just decide for yourself that they are a different four-legged creature with a bite and claws and a DD ability.
You know who else can treemeld besides Dryads? Every druid over a certain level.
Pseudodragons are nothing special either, that combination of special abilities isn't exactly unique. There's loads of tiny poisonous flying creatures, that one just happens to be of the Dragon type and have a weird fairy aesthetic.

Not to mention, a lot of people disagree on what monsters look like and how they should act. What's in the book isn't all there is.

>>46025236
And then you hit level 10 and got permanent transformation and made the dream real?

Any way to let you wield an oversized weapon in PF?

I'm using Primal Warrior Stance, and I wanna expand on that by getting my weapon as large as possible.

>>46025291
There's a tiefling alternate trait for it.

>>46025291
Half-Giants are +STR/WIS and have Powerful Build, which allows you one size higher.

>>46025312
RAW that trait allows you to wield Large weapons and only Large weapons.

If I use Creation to turn a creature into an inanimate object, do they remain conscious?

>>46025332
Even if you're small.

>>46025312
>>46025332
"You have over-sized limbs, allowing you to use Large weapons without penalty."
And you can take it while being Small yourself.

>>46025285
Nope! As usual, the game burned out around 7. But at that point I was a shifter 3/druid 4 to get the hours/level trait, so I was dragonyydy for 7 hours each spell point. It was basically permanent.

>>46025379
Chibidemons.

So, I'm wanting to make an enemy that challenges my party by himself. The party consists of a witch, brawler, healbot, and twf psionic initiator. All level 5, roughly with wbl.

The enemy in mind is some form of undead gunslinger with two pistols. I was thinking he does standard gunslinger things, but what would some good offensive/defensive abilities be to keep him as a challenge? I've already given them some place he wont enter or attack if they are inside. I was thinking every other round he takes reduced damage or something

>>46025379
How do you guys tend to handle the alternate traits for Tieflings and aasimar? Do you just let players pick what they want? The way I've done it is that if you decide you want to take something from the table, you roll three times and pick from those results, but once you roll there's no going back to the race's default traits.

>>46025410
Round one, he gets locked down by a witch hex.

Seriously, the only way you'll make this work in any non-boring way is if he acts 4 times every round.

>>46025267

>Monsters can be refluffed
Uh? Nobody said they couldn't. I disagreed with the claim that monster stats are irrelevant to actually playing characters that are that kind of monster.

You can't just take any old human and say "I'm playing an illithid!" if you're missing the main traits that make an illithid an illithid.

You can't refluff say "I'm an ogre barbarian" out of your halfling barbarian.

>>46025267
>What about a racial paragon class with menu-style class features at each level, and like the Incanter's bonus feats, you can trade out certain amounts of them for class features from other classes, or even dunk your saves and BAB for more shit?
Better, but still not ideal.

>a lot of people disagree on what monsters look like and how they should act.
Tends to be standardized in a given campaign setting. For instance, 3e Faerun Kobolds look like meepo/deekin/quarterlykobold, worship dragons, and can pretty easily not be evil.

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>>46025379
Yeah, but what happens if you get enlarge person'd?

The sword is therefore huge and suddenly you have a penalty, despite remaining proportional to your sword's size.

>>46025481
>>You can't just take any old human and say "I'm playing an illithid!" if you're missing the main traits that make an illithid an illithid.
Right, but you don't need the actual Illithid statblock to do that. A class that grants the important features over time is just as good.

How do you prevent yourself from optimizing? I don't even notice I'm doing it half the time. For once I'd like to make a character based on a story I've come up with as opposed to making the best character I can and then coming up with a story about it.

It always just feels like I'm going to be totally useless if I don't optimize. I know that's not true, but that's how it feels.

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>>46025410
>>46025466
Aren't most witch hexes mind-affecting?

What races are they, anon? A clever gunslinger (especially one as old as an undead one can be) can lay down some serious concealment and traps.

Give him resources. Back-up spell tattoos, necrocrafts or spellstitching.

He's an old ass bitch, give him some swank dealies to go with those cake candles. With half your party deaf or blind, they'll realise a person with better prep can be a challenge for a 4v1.

>>46025543
A single creature is never an appropriate encounter for a party of four.

>>46025530
Start with a story and a purpose, anon.

Then ask yourself, what would that person do to get there?

It's how I approach my life, to optimize my education, training and fitness. Generally speaking, good choices are good in universe, but they're just the frame to surround a great story and a real person to bring it all together.

>>46025492
>Outsider

>>46025543
Evil Eye, Misfortune, and Cackle. No mind-affecting needed to inflict terribleness on every roll of a single creature, just Will saves.

>>46025466
>Witch Hexes always work.

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>>46025572
It can be tricky to balance, but it can be done.
>Just had to fight a level 20 vampiric sun cleric wielding a holy sword while our party was level 9.

Our DPS is blind in anything brighter than darkness, though, and he had a glowing aura so it didn't go well.

>>46025492
Technically when you get enlarge person'd all your equipment resizes to be of the appropriate size. So a medium sized creature wielding a large weapon becomes a large sized creature wielding a large weapon, or medium to huge becomes a huge sized creature wielding a huge sized weapon.

>>46025597
He would play a human instead of a dwarf because the extra feat is worth more than the hit to charisma.

>>46025630
Evil Eye + Cackle always works, yes.

>>46025507
>Right, but you don't need the actual Illithid statblock to do that.
Ah. yes, I agree.

>A class that grants the important features over time is just as good.
Mostly, with some caveats.

Anything an illithid child (bad example because there are no illithid children, they start as larvae, but you get the idea) would have, I'd expect to have at level 1.

For instance, if playing a minotaur, I'd expect to start with horns, scent, and immunity to the maze spell. The direction sense, extra high STR, and large size+reach could be something I grow into with levels, and have the level 1 minotaur be an adolescent or something.

You could easily have it be ACFs with level requirements though, and then my minotaur can be, say, a Druid, the whole way up, and at or above the appropriate level, could trade a variety of class stuff for minotaur stuff.

>>46025633
hwat
>20th level NPC with PC levels is CR 19 on his own
>APL +10
>Balanced

No.

>>46025649
That's definitely not how that works at all.

>>46025572
Beholder.

9 attacks a round goes a long way to shoring up the action economy imbalance.

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>>46025599
Am I missing something?

What does being an outsider have to do with enlarge person?

>>46025649
Are you sure?
>This increase changes the creature's size category to the next larger one.
>All equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged by the spell.
That seems to suggest everything gets bumped up one

>>46025682
Yeah, I know, that fight sucked.

>It didn't help that our tank/frontliner refused to hurt him because 'vow of peace'

>>46025718
Enlarge person doesn't work on Outsiders, it works on Humanoids.

Your GM seems to have zero idea how the game works and is probably floating you through it all on fiat anyway.

>>46025661
>MIND AFFECTING

>>46025679
I agree with this post.

>>46025718
>What does being an outsider have to do with enlarge person?
Not being a valid target.

>>46025748
>>46025733
Ahh, I see. I forgot the exemptions of native outsiders didn't apply to spells.

That never came up in any campaign, I was just thinking about any example of a size boost spell/ability in relation to the 'large' only restriction.

Not sure what you mean by GM fiat, you know next to nothing about context, though.

>>46022065
You'll find references to these fine folks or inspiration drawn from them (my research consultant is a Celtic reconstructionist, I'd be literally killed to death if I didn't) but they won't be making explicit appearances. Introducing new deities in a supplement like this, without a campaign setting to draw on, would be...awkward.

> List of fey

Well...look, anon. A lot of these are already /in/ Pathfinder, whether I like it or not, and I've got to dance on the floor that's been prepared for me. That said, there's plans to present the ancient fey that became some of those species after the Retreat, depending on who or what they pacted with to remain in the Iron Lands.

And now for stuff from the last thread.

> Veilweaving ART
The double trade was on the advice of Akashic Mysteries' author, Ssalarn, and was supported by internal. A point of essence has significant value in itself, and Shape Veil with no prereqs is also nice. It was felt - and is still felt - that it warrants the additional trade.

> Overall strength/weakness
Aside from needing the weakness to iron for fluff reasons, I was worried about the perception of power present in them not being humanoids or outsiders. I realize not being humanoid is something of a double-edged sword at lower levels (no enlarge person etc) but...well, tell that to some of our readers? I'm keeping an eye on this, though, and definitely invite further discussion on the topic.

>>46025790
An encounter at APL+10 is literally too high to even get XP from, according to the RAW; a 20th level Cleric not only has 9th-level spells, but has quite a few of them every single day.

That either wasn't a 20th level Cleric, or your GM used fiat to allow you to defeat him, since a single 9th can easily wipe a 9th level party outright.

>>46025410
He can leave his skeletal hands floating in air holding and firing his guns, running around handless and doing other stuff or just dodging while his hands zip around being very hard to hit.

Magic bullets that do magic things, like debuff instead of damage.

Some kind of explosive weapon that deals negative energy damage, like a doom-grenade.

>>46025530
I don't, I just focus on story and optimization at the same time. It's really not hard. I usually work on character building and character story in an alternating progression. I'll find something that inspires me or gives me and idea for a character and then figure out a very general idea for a build, before filling in more detail about who he/she now that I know more details about them (IE, if I've decided the character would be a STR-based human magus with a certain archetype, I'll figure out justification for why they have that archetype) and flesh them out a lot. Then I go back and start figuring out more specific build details (IE since I decided the magus was a bladebound in old ruins because he's some kind of archaeologist, I'll give him a trait to boost Kn: History). I don't tie everything of the build into the personality but I make sure to avoid things that would obviously contradict the character.

Also, engage yourself in the story when you play and make sure your character has depth beyond their numbers and stats. Even if you're playing Generic Beast Totem CAGM Barbarian #331, you can make him stand out with a distinct interest in herbology, a distrust of halflings and gnomes, and a desire to save up enough money start up a trade network that could help feed his village.

>>46025824
We didn't defeat him, we surrendered.

>>46025837
Oh.

Well, I made a bad inference there.

Still, you being in a position to combat him at all is really bizarre to me, but that's only because the 20th-level anythings in my games have many, many, many underlings to go through first. A party of 9ths wouldn't even be on their personal radar, they'd be a minor nuisance to delegate a subordinate to deal with.

>>46025617
Evil Eye is mind-affecting for awhile now.

>>46025291
Effortless Lace (Doesn't work with 2H)

Titan Fighter

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>>46025803
>Introducing new deities in a supplement like this, without a campaign setting to draw on, would be...awkward.

Am I hearing this right or are you guys hinting on working on an entire Faerie Realms campaign setting?

>>46025862
It was a heist mission, into a vault near his room. We were never supposed to fight him, but he was going to pass by at a time none of us knew and breaking through five force walls to get the goods took too long.

>>46025803
Fey doesn't give anything that isn't that double-edged sword, though. No DR, no immunities, nothin'.

>>46025904
Not precisely, but there will be details on the Fairest of Lands.

>>46025935
And that may end up necessitating a tweak up. On the other hand, it does get you access to some nice feats out of Bloodforge and/or this supplement, and there's goign to be folks that think immunity to low-level stuff like Charm is worth it on its own. Which reminds me..

> Fey-touched
This is another one I've got my eye on, but it /does/ save you a feat on stuff players/readers have expressed interest in (again, mainly out of Bloodforge) as well as give minimal-investment buy in into fey stuff.

Magical Girl leak when?

>>46026097
l-lewd

>>46026029
Yeah, I'm not familiar with bloodforged so I can't especially comment on fey interactions with it, but just with 1pp it feels very underpowered.

>>46026029
Gareth, would you be introducing new weapons and armor enhancements as well?

If I recall correctly, Excalibur, Claiomh Solais, Rhongomyniad and a lot of other mythological weapons were 'Gifted by Fae'

>>46026107

>you're now imagining megumin

>>46026137
>He thinks Excalibur is a good weapon
Anon, its the Scabbard you want. Not the sword.

>>46026205
Having an aegis, an invisible sword, and being able to swing down mountain sized beams seems pretty nice.

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>>46026205
Lady of the Lake please.
Why bother with not dying if I can kill anything that might pose a threat?

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>>46026137
Wait, how can the Fae gift people with manufactured weapons if they have a terminal case of cold iron allergy?

>>46026205
>>46026241
>>46026276
Why not both your majesty?

>>46026323
The weapons aren't made of iron?

>>46026323
I believe the Lords of the Mist playtest outright admits/states that "metal that has been sufficiently-worked to be considered steel does not count as Cold Iron."

>>46026333
Because if you read the Arthurian legends, you only get to choose one.
The lady of the lake is a bit of a bitch that way...

>>46025543
>>46025543
I should probably give more detail on the characters, so I'll do that.

If you're in my game (Paul, Jacob, Wally), turn back now, for spoilers are likely to follow. Bastards.

Elven Witch with a habit of doing spider related spells (Vomit Spiders, Summoning, etc)

Inubashi Hengeyokai Pathwalker 4/Soulknife 1 who dual wields and uses maneuvers. (Thrashing Dragon and Riven Hourglass)

Minotaur Brawler who punches with Pummeling Style and Dragon Style.

Elan Vitalist (Soulthief) npc healbot.

I'm thinking he sets up some traps beforehand, one to blind, one to ensnare, and another to...probably just hurt.

>>46025825
>He can leave his skeletal hands floating in air holding and firing his guns, running around handless and doing other stuff or just dodging while his hands zip around being very hard to hit.

That and the doom ball are really good ideas, thanks! Maybe also have ghost hands to reload.


An idea I had was every other round or so, make him become more ghostly, and take either reduced damage or no damage at all for (x) amount of attacks.

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>>46026323
Excalibur was made out of gold, if I recall correctly. Rhongomyniad was made of silver. And Claiomh Solais' blade is literally made out of fucking rainbows that can cleave mountains in half.

>>46026356
As I remember it she just flung the sheathed sword at em and Arthur remarked on how dope Excalibur was and Merlin said he was a dumb shit because the scabbard was worth a hundred Excaliburs so he kept both. I don't remember what happened to said scabbard since his kid offed him later.

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Realistically, what are the Druid spells or the Good cleric spells that would make a Mwangi Arcanist so broken?

>>46026349
Aye. It's not about the chemical composition, as such. Iron is the metal with which mortals drove back the night. We built our houses with iron nails, shod our horses with iron shoes, made iron weapons and armor. We cut the trees with iron axes and sliced them with iron saws beaten with iron chains, and all for the service of They Who Love Iron. Steel is not that metal, that waged a war so long ago on the behalf of the quickling races. It's something we birthed from Iron, but the son is not the father.

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>>46026466
>Excalibur was made out of gold
Seriously? Between the Scabbard and this, King Arthur is an idiot.
Gold is a terrible metal to make weapons out of.
No wonder you couldn't save your kingdom.

>>46026475
Morgan le Fay stole it, iirc.

>>46026366
If you want him to be able to reload easily, give him the Gun Twirling feat. Combined with rapid reload, his guns will literally reload with a flourish and a flick of the wrist without missing a beat. Cooler than ghosthands I think.

>>46026529

>all this iron wankery

If I asked you if you've read RAALS, would you know what I'm talking about?

>>46026529
So, Gareth. Any plans on adding new weapon and armor enchantments based off the Fairy myths?

>>46025803
>I was worried about the perception of power present in them not being humanoids or outsiders

The power level increase from fey type alone is fucking nothing.

>>46025530
Come up with the story, then make the best damn character you can within those confines.

>>46026613
People are fucking dumb tho

>>46026589
Not the slightest clue.

>>46026611
Of course. Don't ask for details, you're not gonna get any.

>>46026613
Immunity to Charm Person.

>>46026529
>Tfw all daoine sidhe have rust monsters as pets

This should totally be a common thing when they have weaknesses like that.

>>46026637
>Don't ask for details, you're not gonna get any.

I've already got a few hunches considering a big chunk of the Arthurian, Irish and Celtic myths has spears that branch and splinter and bleed their enemies to death, swords made of light that can cleave mountains, armor that can regrow lost limbs, daggers that snuff out light, etc.

>>46026511
Planar Ally and Holy Word, off the dome.

>>46026659
Lets escalate this further:

Daoine Sidhes all wear Gauntlets of Rust, have Bags of Rust spread all over their clothing and are always constantly casting ghost form and displacement on themselves.

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>>46026738
>a big chunk of the Arthurian, Irish and Celtic myths has armor that can regrow lost limbs

Now why didn't any of you tell me about this sooner?!

New Thread
>>46027056
>>46027056
>>46027056

>>46026586
>>46026366
>>46025543
>>46025825
For stats, I'm thinking something like

Str 15
Dex 26
Con -
Int 14
Wis 16
Cha 18
Bab: as class levels
Saves: as class levels

Weapons: a pair of twin revolvers that must be used in a pair. Probably +1 or +2 with an enchantment to aid in reloading fast on them both. Maybe Lucky as well.

Armor: basic +1 leather

Doom Grenade (Su): Hurls an orb of negative energy that explodes in a 15ft(Maybe 20-25) Exhausting all within. Reflex save DC 16 to avoid the effect.

Spectral Hands (Su) Creates spectral hands to hold his weapons. The hands move at a speed of 20. The Spectral Gunslinger must take a move action to move the hands. The hands fire the guns at the Gunslinger's will, allowing him to take cover and fire from a different spot.

Ghostly Visage (Su)[Needs a new name]: For one round, the Gunslinger takes on a semi-incorporeal nature, attacks seeming to pass through him. He gains Dr 15/-. This ability takes 1d4 rounds to recharge


As for traps, something like...

Blinding Rune (Sp) Places a trap that lasts for a day. The Gunslinger can remote activate it, causing targets in 5ft to make a Will save Dc 14 or be blinded for 1d4 rounds

Grasping Hands (Su) Places a trap that lasts for a day. The Gunslinger can remote detonate the trap causing targets within 10ft to be Ensnared on a failed Reflex save Dc 14

Debilitating Shards (Su) Places a trap that lasts one day. The Gunslinger can remote detonate these traps causing targets to take 3d6 damage on a failed Reflex save Dc 14 for half.

how would you go about making a cavalier I wanted to play one for a while but I don't want to be a knock off useless fighter. Any tips?

>>46025021
Oh no, we wouldn't ever want to play something that isn't optimized to the hilt, even if it's super cool! How dare those dirty writers give us fun toys!