/btg/ - Battletech General

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haha Butt Holde!

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science

I like the Grasshopper. What can 3145 do for me?

>>46012462
There aren't any canon DA-specific (IE post 3100) grasshoppers, but the jihad-era-7K and 3090s -7P are both pretty good, the -7K maybe a bit more so. You can whip up some pretty nasty customs with DA tech, though

>>46012462
Grasshopper IIC and IIC 2, which may be produced in the FWL.

>>46012462
The Grasshopper kinda died with the 4/6 medium.

>>46012667
Good thing it's a 4/6/4 heavy then, otherwise people might assume it's no longer viable.

>>46012462
If you play with uniques the -7K "Gravedigger" variant kicks things up another notch. It's brutal.

So those Clan mechs with interface cockpits, aren't ultraheavy Protos supposed to work pretty much the same way as them? Secondly are they using Mechwarriors or Proto pilots for them, I mean if Proto pilots can live with EI longer then Mechwarriors wouldn't they be the better choice for the Skinwalker and Parash 3?

>>46012071
HAHAHA BUTTE HOLD

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>>46012927
No, I mean its niche was getting up in lighter mech's faces and beating on them mercilessly until they die.

I made this a while back.

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Latest purchases?

Just brought this home from the local shop. Hadn't seen it anywhere online yet.

>>46013821
I wish any of the gaming stores in the Lansing area carried battletech.

>>46014631
I'm in the Battle Creek area and the only one we had closed down.

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Looks like I got a battalion now, waiting for my infantry to come in. I'm thinking I'm gonna paint them as Eridani Light Horse.

>>46014790
Did you buy yours at your LGS or online?

Gomenasai, my name is Victor-Sama.

I’m a 27 year old Draconis-March Kuritaku. I draw Anime and Manga on my noteputer, and spend my days perfecting my art and playing superior Kuritan games. (Imortaru Warriro: Die Disonorrabru Foxu)

I train with my Dragon every day, this superior mech can cut clean through Hagetakas (Vulture for you gaijins) because it is folded over a thousand times, and is vastly superior to any other mech on Inner Sphere. I earned my mech license two years ago, and I have been getting better every day.

I speak Japanese fluently, both Kanji and the Itabaiana dialect, and I write fluently as well. I know everything about Japanese and Kuritan history and their bushido code, which I follow 100%

When I get my Luthien visa, I am moving to Luthien to attend a prestigious War School to learn more about their magnificent culture. I hope I can become a mechwarrior for Internal Security Force or the Order of Five Pillars!

I own several kimonos, which I wear around town. I want to get used to wearing them before I move to Luthien, so I can fit in easier. I bow to my elders and seniors and speak Japanese as often as I can, but rarely does anyone manage to respond.

Wish me luck in the Black Pearl!

>>46014942
Makes me wonder: was Omi Kurita really even a character or just more a plot device? Did she love Victor or was she manipulating him for the good of the Combine?

>>46014790
The intro box was local, the vees and BAs from amazon.

>>46014712
2 stores here have groups that play at noon on saturdays. But I open at tim horton's that day and of course I'm out at noon and dead tired by then as I'm up by 2:45 for breakfast, medicine, and personal grooming, and at work by 3:30ish.

>>46014995
I do believe she actually loved him. I also add: damn it's good to be Victor. First Omi and then Isis Marik? The only way to improve on the list would be add Naomi or Danai Centrella for the Periphery category.

>>46014942
>Itabaiana

A planet full of women who look like Carol Nakamura? Sounds like time to find a contract there.

I want to start with Steiner, what is a nice Steiner Beginner-Friendly lance I can use the learn the ropes?

>>46015163
>The only way to improve on the list would be add Naomi or Danai Centrella for the Periphery category.
>victor secretly bangs danai centrella
>sunny T is horrified when "his" son grows up to look more and more like a brown Victor
>somewhere beyond the grave, hanse davion cackles maniacally

>>46015163
No one wants Centrellphilis though.

It's much more common in that area.

>>46015237
Zeus, Griffin, Commando and Hatchetman? For the learning of (respectively) range bands, range and heat control, "how to keep the light explosive 'Mech from exploding" and melee.

>>46015377
You mean Naomi Centrella. Danai died in the Great Refusal.

>>46015163
>The only way to improve on the list would be add Naomi or Danai Centrella for the Periphery category.
>wanting to fuck a flat-nosed feminazi

>>46015560
Oops, yeah, that's who I meant

>>46015237
Thunderbolt, Zeus, Griffin, Banshee 3S

>>46015560
Shit, Victor still probably hit that after the Great Refusal. Probably legal in the Magistracy too.

>>46015461
>>46015690
Commando (because Commandos are sexy), Zeus, Griffin, Thunderbolt/Banshee 3S it is.
''I'm not a fan of the Hatchetman''

Any other essentials I should pick up in the future? I heard Atlases are very Steiner-ific.

Also, what are nice Mechs for Intro games I can run for my pals to get them hooked?

>>46016163
>''I'm not a fan of the Hatchetman''
Yeah, the first melee mech has quite a few problems.
I personally don't touch the Ax/Hatchetmen, I much prefer the second-gen Lyran melee designs like the Scarabus, Nightsky, and Berserker.

>>46016222
>>46016163

I kinda like the look of the experimental Axeman with the rifle-pod thing or whatever you call it.
Though It does feel a little odd to have a mech holding a gun not just having it bolted on/into it.

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>>46013821

Purchased minis for a lance of the 1st Somerset Strikers. Pic related.

Working on Ciro's Wolfhound and Hawkin's Mauler ATM

>>46017325
Not a single Mauler uses ATM though
:^)

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>>46012462
Since the Grasshopper is basically out of production aside from Drac forces, have one I'm too lazy to rename to something with -K in it, made out of Nova Cat salvage. Sadly not canon.

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>>46016222
The Axman would be miles better if they didn't slap the MLs on the same arm as the hatchet. And y'know, gave it better reach than 10 hexes. So let's unfuck it.
>Get home, post mechs, watch Dune.

Why does the Mauler suck so bad? The Kurtian one is least sucky.

>>46018434
...they're all Kuritan, m8.

>>46018434
>Mauler
>the Kuritan one
they all Kuritan, nigga

Dunno why i said that, the one with the snubbies.

Brain farted.

>>46018434

The 1K isn't terrible. Its not great but I wouldn't mind using it.

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>>46018434
This is the Mauler I would have rather had.

>>46019282
I agree with this. Also it made me realize I forgot to change the unit designation on the custom I just posted. Oops. LAC/5s are really damn good, truth be told. Especially on vees. The one I posted is what I would have rather seen in TRO 3050.

>>46019502
Ya, but you ditched the Ferro. That's the Mauler's shtick, you gotta work your way around those limited crits, not get rid of them.

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>tfw princess brings out the haxx

>>46019640
I'm not revamping the core design, just saying what I would have rather seen in the TRO. If I have to work with what's already there, gimme a bit to see what I can come up with. I also gave it an SFE, but that wasn't a sin? Heh.

>>46019710
Didn't notice the engine change desu...but yah, I feel like those sort of changes go against getting the most out of a base chassis and its limitations.

>>46019668
Stop fighting the bot and play with us ;_;

>>46019759
Working on what I can do with the 1R. It'll be a sec. I can say though, it probably won't be much.

>>46019818
NOBODY CAN HOST
And I can't host at my GF's house, so fuck mang. What else am I supposed to do?

Imma be online tomorrow night tho if anyone wants a game.

OK, can someone tell me what the fuck all the electronics in this game are actually good for? Cause I am seriously questioning why you would put any of them on your mech.

>>46019759
>>46019833
How penalized am I going to be if I shuffle the FF crits around on this thing?

>>46020098
C3 systems are good for coordinating a team and giving everyone on it the range modifiers of the closest unit to your target.

ECM Suites are good for disrupting the above, disrupting attempts to disrupt it with ECCM, producing "Ghost Targets", reducing the advantages conveyed by certain advanced missile systems, and powering stealth armor. (though a lot of those are advanced rules)

Active Probes aren't good for much without advanced rules, but are potentially good for detection in Double Blind, reducing the defense someone gets from forest hexes and I'm pretty sure I'm forgetting a function or two.

>>46020359
How does detection in double blind work?

ECM - seems like you might carry one or two, and forgo all the other advanced stuff in case yours gets countered.

>>46020400
There are sensor ranges and types. Basically if you move close enough to something, you can sense it. If you have an Active Probe, anything that gets within your probe range pops up. Otherwise, units are all hidden to each other on the board, and players are fed information and feed information about their actions to a judge or mediator who moves their shit around for them.

>>46020451
Er, *if you move close enough to something that trips one or more of your sensors (seismic, thermal, optical, etc)

>>46020098

>>46020359 covered most of it but I should also mention TAG which is either totally useless or Finger of Death depending on how many Arrow IV and LRM tubes you brought.

>>46020473
>>46020451
Reminds me, in MM I see the different sensor types but I have no idea what they do

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>>46019759
>>46019833
>>46020340
>>46020679
Okay so I made this, and then discovered it's basically the MAL-1P from MWO. So... I don't really know what to think of that. Yay me, I guess? It's the best I could come up with that doesn't change the chassis in any fundamental way except add a ton of armor. Since someone else already came up with it before me, I consider it a failure of an exercise.

>>46020879
Dunno why I linked your post in my previous one but I'll try to answer you anyway.

Thermal detects heat sources, so if anything is running hot it can see it farther away, especially at night. It can detect 'mechs running normally as well, albeit closer. And it canno't detect 'mechs that are shut down.

Optical are pretty self-explanatory.

Seismic detect movement within a certain radius. The heavier a unit, the easier it is to detect at range, for obvious reasons.

I can't recall what the others are if any because I haven't played DB rules in 10+ years. I think there's an electromagnetic sensor too but I dunno what it does.

>>46020679
It basically changes how do you detect mechs in Double Blind

>>46021036
>can't detect 'mechs that are shut down
Unless they are already hot, obviously. Derp on me for that one.

HAHA BONE NORMAN

>>46021036
Magnetic Anomaly Detection

It lets you detect mechs through solid objects, as long as there isnt large amounts of metal in the way. Its basically useless on city maps, but works wonders in hill and forest terrain where you normally wouldn't have line of sight.

>>46021575
I'd hold a butte but I wouldn't bone a norman

>>46021663
Just have Glock build your mech, so it won't show up on metal detectors.

>>46021921
The mid 90s wants it's general technological ignorance back.

These days ignorance of social consequences is all the rage.

>>46021921
Only the ghost regiments get ghost mechs.

How do turrets on omnis work? Do I have to allocate weight and crits to them or what?

>>46021921
But I don't want ammo explosions all the time

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>>46013821
PLEASE let me know how this came out ASAP. Note any mushy detailed areas and if you could measure its height that would be great. General opinion appreciated of course.
That's one Alex Immerzeel sculpted and I directed, want to make sure they didn't goof the QC on ours again.
Did they include the variant parts?

>>46013821
Doesn't Aries have it listed?

Got a primitive Thunderbolt, Wasp and Banshee for my Lyran militia.

What do you consider the "normal" amount of armor a mech should have? 80%? 90%? 100%? Dependent on mission?

>>46023971
You don't need max armor exactly but if you go under 90% you better have a very good reason.

>>46023971
90+.

>>46023971
I operate on the 85% rule. Anything less needs a reason, and that reason better be a 10/15 movement profile or 8 IJJs. Or suboptimal "character".

Honestly brawlers/command rides should have maxed, troopers 85% or better, skirmishers/backstabbers/scouts at 75%, and fire support can be as low as 60% but they better be mobile. 75% otherwise.

>>46024113
I feel like you can also go below 85% by a little bit if it's to get enough heat dissipation on an introtech mech

>>46023971
80% is what I'd call the minimum. If you're using an (IS)XL or an XXL for more guns instead of speed, 90% is your new minimum.

Obviously, for hardened armor anything above 50% is ok, since each point is really two points so at 50% or more nominal protection you really have 100% or more protection. Similarly, Ferro-Lam can dip into the 70% range and still be tough enough. Jumpy stealthy buggers that are nearly impossible to hit are the only other group I'd say can afford to dip that low.

>>46024383
IMO you should only really use hardened or ferro if it will get you at minimum an effective 10% more than your normal max.

>>46023510

You can check it out for yourself at some point Shimmy. You are in Portland after all.

I will post a picture or three for you though when i've gotten it together.

>>46024473
Wait, there's somewhere in Portland that sells BT minis? Is it downtown?

>>46024372
Yeah, that's what my spoiler was about. Most Introtech stuff is kinda undergunned anyway, so having anything over 70% armor in the SW-era is a bonus, but not really required. I mean things like the Zeus work just fine and that has 11.5 tons of armor.

>>46024529

The only place in Portland that carries them anymore is Guardian Games. There used to be at least two others but now they're the only one.

ggportland dot com

>>46024529

And yes they're right across the river from downtown.

>>46023971
I use a formula. Start at 85%, then add/subtract 5% for each situation below that applies. Maximum is 95%, absolute minimum is 70%.

Decrease in minimum:
Is the mech able to reach a higher TMM than normal for its weight class? (+4 for lights, +3 for mediums, +2 for heavies and assaults)
Does the mech have a stealth system, Ferro-Lamellar, or Ballistic Reinforced armor?
Is the mech a flashbulb?

Increase in minimum
Is the mech unable to get an average TMM for its weight class?
Does the mech use composite structure or an IS XL, IS XXL, or clan XXL engine?
Does the mech have more than 4 crits of explosive ammo or 7 crits of explosive weapons?

>>46022817
Turrets themselves are fixed equipment. So if putting one on a mech, yes you have to assing the crit.

As for the weight, you do normal turret construction (the turret mechanism weighs 10 percent of the stuff mounted in it) in reverse. So you determine how much you want the turret to weigh and this will be fixed, and you can mount up to ten times that weight in the turret.

For instance, a 1.5 ton turret can mount up to 15 tons of stuff in it.

>>46024652
To clarify, that "maximum is 95%" refers to the maximum minimum (ie: 95-100% is the most restrictive armor range), not the maximum a mech should mount.

Also, Hardened ignores all this and is a flat 65%+ or don't bother.

>>46024607
>>46024630
Ah. I'm out in Beaverton and the only BT stuff I can find is the introbox.

Well, that and the Robotech Tactics box at Powells, but that doesn't count.

>>46024824

Just a little further out than you (Hillsboro) and Guardian is the one stop shop for pretty much anything gaming related in town. I gladly make the trip in when I can.

Rainy Day Games isn't bad. Its really the only action on this side of town but it doesn't carry BT. Good board game, RPG, 40k, and magic selection though.

>>46024590
Introtech isn't helped by the fact that the way the calculations work out means 4/6 75-85 ton mechs all have the same free weight.

>>46024962
I got my intro box at RDG, but that was years ago.

Shit, I should probably repaint those minis. I did them in Zinc Chromate Green and a light grey cause I had some paint left over from an aircraft model. I do like the green, though, but I need to thin the paints this time.

>>46024976
introtech really needs more 3/5 heavies IMO

>>46025112

If you ever want to play with some other locals drop me a line. Email above.

We usually play sundays.

Where is the ComStar Dragoon they started building in the DA?

>>46025170
I actually agree with you. Hammerhands pulled it off.

>>46025273
Turning Points: Epsilon Eridani

>>46025306
got a link?

>>46025296

Love muh Hammerhands!

>>46025335
here you go bud
http://www.mediafire.com/download/jdcd0y1bv32na9x/E-CAT35TP019+Battletech+Turning+Points+Epsilon+Eridani.pdf

>>46025170
>>46025296
Agreed, "pocket assaults" are best in the introtech era

>>46025383
Gracias amigo

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>>46025170
>>46025296
>>46025354
>>46025581
Took a crack at an Introtech "pocket Assault" for the FWL. Added JJs to make it a bit more mobile, but like a lot of SW-era stuff it suffers from heat issues if you like to alpha strike. Both also upgrade into 3050 fairly well; if someone likes them I can post the Level 2 versions.

>>46025930

Hammerhands HAS jump jets.

Not a bad little toy you mad though. I prefer the S2.

>>46026034
I didn't mean to imply it didn't, just saying it needed more mobility offhand. Sorry about that, and thanks. Yeah, the S2 is better, but gotta have that "Ramirez" version if it's Introtech. I was gonna make it the base version but I figured nah, the AC/10 version is better, I'll have that be the base.

>>46025296

>implying

Hammerhands a shit, Warhammer is better in every way and will always beat it no matter what because all fights occur on salt flats, terrain never has any effect on combat, and the OF posters say so.

Pocket assaults are an area that could stand to be explored more. It's difficult to do in a way that isn't just "a Marauder, except with full armour and more heat sinks" though.

>>46026075

A not quite intro tech mod, but still very much SW era tech, would be the replacement of the pair of LLs with a Blazer.

I got to take a Blazer equipped Banshee mod into a game sunday and quite liked what it could do.

>>46026284
Problem is, anything going 3/5 will automatically be better at 100, and going faster means you have a normal heavy. There's not really much for them to do

>>46023971
60pts to 100pts for 'Mechs which can only harass
110pts to 150pts for 'Mechs which can sort of handle a fight on their own, but work better in pairs
160pts to 200pts for main combatants
210pts to 250pts for a slow centerpiece, or a main combatant with other vulnerabilities
260pts and up for the "lion fighting a swarm of gnats" scenario

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>>46025930
Eh, I'll post the Level 2 versions anyway. They're a little crazy.

>>46026284
I laughed pretty hard Anon, thanks. There's not a ton of room left to be explored with Introtech stuff, but pocket assaults is one area that's pretty bare. A mini Awesome is another thing that could be made. Three LLs, a fuckton of sinks, max armor, final destination. Can cause plenty of PSRs at least, and would be a pain in the ass to destroy.

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>>46026395
>>46025930
Said Level 2 versions of the Janus.

>>46026325
Hermegerd I love Blazers. This needs to happen.

>>46026352
Solution: pick movement, DPS, and damage/HP ratio first, work out tonnage afterwards.

>>46026468

I've begun tinkering, on and off, with Blazer refits to 3025-3039 mechs. The Banshee mentioned was one of my favorites.

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>>46026352

Depends, anon.

I would be much more accepting of a 70-ton unit that went 3/5/3 and was designed to fuck things up inside of 15 hexes than I would be of even an AS7-D. For the extra 50% in mass and cost (at least with SW-era tech) I'd expect more from the deal.

>>46026395

I've posted it before but one of the Elite pilots I rolled for my merc unit also qualified for a custom heavy. I took the Marauder, decided it was for a Solaris duelist, and rebuilt it around a 3.5.3movment profile with full armour, 3 Large Lasers, 6 MLs, and 26 Heat Sinks.

It works a lot better than you'd expect, and it mauled the fuck out of even -D model Warhammers and Marauders on a regular basis.

>>46026735
I recall talking about Blazershees with someone once. Wonder if it was you.

>>46026760
I can't hate it, it has LLs and SRM4s, two of my Introtech vices.

Can Environmentally Sealed vees move underwater? Cause I wanna make a SRT Carrier

>>46026998
>SRM4s

Why

>>46027625
Well aside from just liking them they actually have the best damage to weight ratio of the non-Streak SRMs.

>>46027061
Yes. And they don;t have to worry about falling over and potentially breaching because of it like mechs do.

That said, they'll still be slowed severely, so an LRT carrier would be better, since it doesn't have to get close and the only weapons that can match it for range underwater are other LRTs. As far as vehicles go, SRTs are better left to actual subs.

>>46024607
>>46024529
>>46024473
>>46024824

>having places that carry BT

Consider me jelly. UK/Europe is kinda fucked for that, we've got Ral Partha still with a big range but some of their newest mechs are the project phoenix stuff, completely missing any of the really neat looking newer designs or resigns. Ebay is full of chancers selling the same stuff Ral Partha does at a mark-up, it's pretty much impossible to get the Alpha Strike plastics though a few places still carry intro sets and for some insane reason on Amazon there's someone selling mechs for about £40 a pop.

I'd have to order from IWM and hope that their current round of quality control problems don't fuck me. Looking forward to that.

>>46027658
Uh...they're all equal m80

Does Vehicular Stealth armor interfere with Communications Equipment and monitoring Remote Sensors?

cVSPLs when?

>>46028160
I recall reading someplace that the SRM4 has the best cluster chance of all the SRMs, but I could be mistaken. Either way, like them anyway.

Does the FWL have any specialty armors? Which one should they get?

If they got a new one, what should it do?

>>46028515
LFF and HFF were invented in the FWL, so you could say that's their trademark armor types. I don't think they did much other specialty armor but they could have anything the Wobbies had, and might have anything the Lyrans or Cappies came up with via intrigue or salvage/reverse engineering.

>>46028634
I meant Stealth, Heat Dissipating, Ballistic Reinforced, etc.

Are AP Gauss rifles actually good for killing BA? Working on some omnimech configs and I figured I'd make an urban fighter equipped to handle vees and infantry.

>>46028695
I did a cursory search and HFF and LFF were all I could find.

>>46028806
Far as I know no, they are better at killing conventional infantry, but I don't have my books in reach at the moment. If you want to buttfuck vees and infantry/BA, look no further than the Plasma Rifle. Even against fire-resistant BA it still does normal damage.

>>46028856
>Even against fire-resistant BA it still does normal damage.
Actually, it only does half normal damage, so just 5 points.

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>>46028226

Logically it should but I don't know if there's anything specifying it.

I think Remote Sensors might actually be a reasonable exception, the monitoring unit is sucking up the information passively rather than blasting an area with its own active sensors.

>>46028404

They are. Average hit percentage from whole volley for an SRM-2 is 50% of the missiles, 75% of an SRM-4 volley, and 66.66% of a SRM-6 volley.

But there are other considerations, like maybe you want to fire Inferno and Tandem-Charge and normal SRMs at one target for whatever reason, which you can do with 3 SRM-2s but not 1 SRM-6. Also heat and crits.

In general if you're going to have multiple SRMs, SRM-4s are the ones to use.

>>46028515

Depends on the era, anon. By the 3150s pretty much everything is available to everyone, it's just a question of whether they want to use it or not.

As to which they should get? Ballistic-Reinforced is the best IS armour. Ferro-Lamellor for the Clans.

>>46028927
>Ballistic-Reinforced is the best IS armour.

I want to like it, but it's so fucking heavy and bulky. You need to devote about 25% extra mass, AND 10 crits, and to me that's just too much. 14 points and 8 crits and we'll talk. I'd rather use laser-reflective to counter the objectively superior weapons

>>46028975
Heh, I was just bitching about this same thing in the IRC. It's rather annoying, I wanted to stick it on this one design but i just can't justify cutting anything else to free up the mass and crits for BR.

>>46028920
Hm, I thought it just didn't get the bonus damage from heat on the chart. Ah well.

>>46028975

On the plus side you get 50% less damage from 2/3rds of the weapon types in the game.

Which is a pretty good deal.

I guess it depends on who you're bordering. For the Dracs where it's A/C, missile, and GR city on every border (except the Ravens, where it's ASF and WarShip city instead) you get a lot out of the damage reduction.

If you've got the Lyrans on one border where it's A/C, missile and GR city but the Cappies where it's Arrow, Plasma, and TSEMP city instead it's going to be a lot more useful against one than the other.

Also helps a lot more on bigger, slower things than lighter, faster ones.

Also as handy as Reflective armour is, the doubled physical and falling damage is a major downside. Great on ASFs where that's not an issue though.

>>46029098
Doesn't reflective take double from artillery as well?

>>46029276

Yes. And Artillery cannons.

Also AP A/C speciality ammo.

On an ASF the downsides are negligible (just pray you don't flub your landing rolls, really) compared to the upsides.

On 'Mechs it's a lot more situational. I think it's worth it on light, fast machines or stuff that's dedicated to dealing with those as enemies, but the vulnerabilities it has to me outweigh the benefits.

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>these designs
So is ComStar Blakist again?

With the HPG network down and Stone absorbing the piece of ComStar stuck inside Fortress Republic into his bureaucracy, what future does ComStar have?

>>46028975
>>46028996
It's also pretty BV inefficient. That shoves it into the dislike pile for me, not matter how much people gush about it.

>>46028515
>>46028695
I think their "thing" might be Blue Shield, and if they got a new one, it should be Improved Blue Shield.

>>46030745
>Blue Shield

Invented by fed dies 100 years ago, none of their neighbors are particularly into ppcs, and they only get it on one mech afaik

>>46030809
Their new Hercules uses it as well, so who knows. In any case they're the only faction to use it on any production-level 'Mechs. It wouldn't be the first time a faction invents something, only for another one to make massive use of it instead.

Hey WarShip anon, after a bit of a wait I've finally put up your McKenna write-up. Dante will follow.

>>46030861
>It wouldn't be the first time a faction invents something, only for another one to make massive use of it instead.
I'm convinced technological innovations and who makes them are determined by throwing darts at a board.

>>46031119
>technological innovations and who makes them

I love the fact that it's the biggest fan of one-on-one duelling and bushido who came up with the team building exercise that is C3 equipment. Just one more reason for the Kokuryu-kai to hate Theodore.

>Theodore Kurita aka "Teddy C3" is not my coordniator.

How much power does a mech scale fusion reactor put out. I always guessed it was in the kilowatt range, with the engine rating denoting the electrical power output in kilowatts, so a Magna 300 fusion reactor would output 300,000 watts

>>46030861

It's on the Quasimodo now isn't it

>>46014790
So am I gonna get steamrolled by clan, com star, or word of blake players?

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>>46028927
>Average hit percentage from whole volley for an SRM-2 is 50% of the missiles, 75% of an SRM-4 volley, and 66.66% of a SRM-6 volley.
The 7 column is not the same as the average hit percentage, m8.

>>46031238

>re-invent gauss rifles
>invent C3
>stuck with SHS because reasons

HA HA PPCS FOREVER, LOGIC IS FOR PUSSIES

>>46031463
Wait, what? A Ferrari Testarossa's engine puts out 300 kilowatts; a Leopard 2 tank's puts out over a megawatt (1,100+ kilowatts) . 'Mech reactors would have to be in the "really high" megawatts, considering how they have to power the multi-ton giant robot, any energy weapons plus assorted sensors and other bits.

Don't be fooled by Stackpole's writing filled with lasers firing "kilojoules of energy", since chances are that he didn't know what he was talking about. Even more likely since he did that in the X-Wing books too.

>>46031787

>tfw 7 is both the median and the mode for 2D6
>tfw best hits per ton on your chart
>hurr but it doesn't average a better performance durr

>>46028634
>LFF and HFF were invented in the FWL
LFF was invented in the FWL. HFF was invented in the LC.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Heavy_Ferro-Fibrous_Armor
And from Tech Manual page 205:
>3069 (Lyran Alliance [Heavy])
>The League’s alliance with the Word of Blake and the outbreak of the Jihad soon led to a rapid proliferation of the technology that inspired the heavy-fi brous version initially produced by Durallex for the LAAF. Unfortunately, several batches of Durallex Guardian heavy ferro were produced for mercenary commands in Lyran employ who subsequently defected to the Blakists, which has also spread the Lyran innovation to other manufacturers like Valiant Systems and Kallon over the past few years.

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>>46031903
I'm saying your given percentages are off, mainly because the 2 column switches to hitting with 2 missiles on any 8+ result and the 4 column fails to hit with 3 missiles on a 6 or less.
Yes, the SRM 4 is most efficient basic SRM launcher (at least if you follow the assumption that you will mount SRM 2s and 4s in pairs sharing a ton of ammo, though in my experience you'll have 3-5 SRM 2s per ton). I'm just saying your mean result is incorrect.

>>46031870

They do put out kilojoules of energy.

Many, many kilojoules.

So many kilojoules that using it to measure energy output is like using centimetres to measure the height of Mt. Everest.

You can do it but it's dumb.

>>46031463

The smallest nuclear plant in the US generates ~480 MW. Going by how bullshit powerful BT fusion engines are supposed to be I would suggest starting somewhere like Rating X 10 MW and going up from there.

>>46031564
Stacy Church's Zeus-X had it in it's final iteration as well.

>>46033269
Yeah, but that's a one-off. Quasi is in full production.

>>46032018
I think Rating in MW seems about right, even with all those energy weapons and a mech to move 200-400 MW are still a fuckton

>>46034772
Also i don't think lasers draw power directly from the engine, with capacitor banks or some shit like that you could store a really big amount of energy to be used in a short amount of time multiplying your effective power for weapon use

>>46031729
In practice, the Clans have much more offence-heavy forces when balanced by BV. To the point that they have a serious Glass Cannon problem.

Thing is most people overlook their terrible defence problems and only see those big range and damage values.

If the Clanner chooses the map (salt flats) and scenario (deathmatch only), yes you're pretty likely fucked due to being out-ranged, otherwise, you have a pretty good chance.

>>46034864

We have fluff saying they do draw directly from the engine. PPCs likewise. There are capacitors and such but to get the weapon charged and firing repeatedly inside 10 seconds requires a massive and steady draw.

>>46035209
Right, but there's capacitors to turn that 10 seconds of steady draw into a fraction of a second of deadly particle beams.

>>46035209
Still though, 1 megawatt is enough to power a small city, a 300 MW reactor should provide ample power for a battletech

>>46035298
There are, but like the anon above said, the fluff has the juice going directly from the reactor to the guns, usually with mentions of how the cockpit heats up as the reactor has to chug harder.

>>46035303
Nope - a tank engine has a power output of more than one megawatt. It would be like trying to power a small city with a diesel generator.

Is BAR 5 armor "can take 5-point hits without penetration" or "5-point hits cause penetration"? I wanna fuck around with a securitymech.

>>46035429
it is the former. Any damage value above 5 will penetrate armour

>>46035592
Great. brb making a securitybug

>>46035606
6/9 with FCE and small cockpit, 3 tons commercial, has a LAC/5 and one ton AP.

>>46035592
BAR 5 Armor plus shields gets pretty funny too.

>>46035910
Hah, you made an IS Reptar.

>>46035606
Wasn't there a security bug in one of the Camacho's Caballeros books? I think it was a Locust with the laser pulled off and a water cannon bolted on.

>>46038218
You know, if you took a Stinger and dropped the ML and jumpjets for a Fluid Gun and a couple tons of ammo for it (so you can carry water AND inferno) that would be a nasty thing. Maybe even halve the MG ammo for another MG.

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>>46038218
Yes, It and a broken clickytech locust inspired a conversion, and then that conversion inspired these stats.

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>>46038696
Pic related being said conversion.

That's it. I'm sick of all this "machine gun" bullshit that's going on in the Battletech system right now. The GAU-8 deserves much better than that. Much, much better than that.
I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine GAU-8 in AMERICA for 400,000 dollars (175,000 c-bills) and have been practicing with it for almost 2 years now. I can even destroy slabs of solid lamellor ferro-carbide with my GAU-8.

American engineers spend years working on a single GAU-8 and fold it up to a million times to produce the finest guns known to mankind.

The GAU-8 hits thrice as hard as Successor State autocannons and fires thrice as fast for that matter too. Anything an autocannon can cut through, a GAU-8 can cut through better. I'm pretty sure a GAU-8 could easily blow through a Great Turtle with 40 tons of hardened armor with a single shot.

Ever wonder why the Successor States never bothered conquering AMERICA? That's right, they were too scared to fight the invincible A-10s and their GAU-8s of destruction. Even in Afghanistan, Taliban fighters targeted the A-10s with their GAU-8s first because their killing power was feared and respected.

So what am I saying? The GAU-8 is simply the best gun that the world has ever seen, and thus, require better stats in the Battletech system. Here is the stat block I propose for the GAU-8:

GAU-8
Type: DB
Heat: 1/shot
Damage: 20/shot
Range: 0/40/80/120
Ammo: 200
Tonnage: 0.25
Crits: 2
Specials: R/C/R140

Now that seems a lot more representative of the firepower of the GAU-8 in real life, don't you think?

tl;dr = GAU-8 needs to do more damage in Battletech, see my new stat block.

>>46039069
you have either been smoking too much, or too little weed. Whichever you have been doing, do the opposite of that.

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>>46039069
If I had more than a couple of hours sleep in me, I'd shoop this dasher to have two thumbs up in approval.
You'll just have to imagine it though for now.

>>46039069
>>46039102
You must broaden your knowledge of the more especially dank copypasta to be found upon these fine internets. Go now and journey until you find wisdom.

For not recognizing the copypasta though, you had a right proper response.

>>46038696
I thought that Fluid Guns were Industrialmech only, or at least were bugged in SSW to be that way. While I'm on that bit of confusion, where is Mine Laying equipment in SSW?

My player's mercenary company just found an old Word of Blake supply cache on a former Protectorate world now being fought over in the Republic era.

If anyone wants to contribute ideas for mechs, vehicles, equipment and supplies, I'll take the first six replies (including silly ones as long as they work in-universe).

>>46039486
Why not a LAM? The WoB had some they made, and even the older ones too.

>>46039513
If you want, pick one and go ahead and throw some random issues or damage on it.

>>46039486
A single Level II of Protectorate Milita mechs; two Lineholders, a Griffin, an Archer and a pair of Wasps
200 tonnes of blakist propaganda leaflets
Two SADM-style backpack Davy Crocketts
Maybe a few MD spare limbs

>>46039486
A few partially built protomechs with heavily modified cockpits, designed to use quad amputee MD as pilots.

>>46039486
A Panther -14S, abandoned by the pilot because that thing is shit.

Mauser 1200s

>>46039486
A pallet of toilet paper and 10000 military-issue robes with hoods.

>>46039486

A pile of nukes.

Several 2765 Era Royal Mech Designs, roughly half a company in strength.

>>46039486
Seven or eight guys in cryo tubes and a Cadillac Gauge V-150 APC. They look like they've been here a lot longer than since the jihad.....

sled-senpai, come back!

If you make an omni that doesn't have Clan CASE hardwired in, can you use it afterwards?

>>46040660
No. Integral components such as case TSM and Endo steel cannot be pod mounted

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>>46039069

>>46040712
>CASE
>can't be pod-mounted

I don't know about Clan CASE, since it's in a weird structural area. But I'm damn sure you can pod mount CASE and CASE II

>>46040847
Clan CASE is just automatically assumed to be included unless you specify otherwise. CASE II is just like the IS version regarding construction.

>>46040712
It's 1995 all over again with the Avatar all over again eh? IS CASE is pod mountable.

>>46041222
What about in mixtech?

>>46039486
Frozen MD waifu

Are there any good TSM+Stealth mechs, or are they all over-BV'd garbage

Does anyone have the FD First-Gen Proto redesigns?

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>>46042367

>>46042512
Thanks.

>>46041872
Choose what kind of CASE you want. All instances of CASE need to be the same tech level. They function as normal.

Do the Marians have anything going for them other than ROKKITS? I'm interested in starting a small Periphery unit, and I don't care for the Taurians and the MoC's SNEEKI BREEKI units aren't really my style.

>>46042270
Well, the Ebony 9 is good, but the TSM is pretty much useless on it. The goodness comes from the 10/15 stealth+snubbie combo that will commonly have your enemy hitting on 11s when stationary while you hit them on 6-8 depending on terrain and their TMM.

The PLG-5Z is also pretty good, though the TSM is a bit difficult to manage without shutting off sinks. But an ERPPC every other turn is worth the 70 more BV it costs than the 4Z, and everyone respects the potential 40 point kicks from your gaussbrick.

The only other design that's somewhat worth the BV is the Emperor 7L, mainly because the TSM is easy to manage and the precision ammo helps compensate for running hot. The RT is one hell of a bomb, though. The similar 8L has a harder time with the TSM, but absolutely murders conventional forces.

>>46043105
Odd force org? Imminent Regulan attack?

I like the Lothians because MARIANES EUNT DOMUS.

>>46043105
In 3145 they have a nifty tank with an Arrow IV and an UAC 10.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Testudo

>>46043148
Somebody watched Life of Brian.

>>46043273
>People called Marianes they go the house?

>>46043491
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIAdHEwiAy8

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>>46042162
>waifu
What do we look like, Dracs?

>>46044643
>Warcrimes.
>dead culture fanboys.
>Signature shit weapon that overshadows the good stuff they have with its shittiness.
>C3

Hey I remember someone doing a table about reinforced structure a long time ago. Can someone repost it?

>>46040660

Only if it's Clan.

Clan 'Mechs get CASE in all locations for free.

On an all-energy loadout CASE is irrelevant but if you mount ammo on another config it will come with CASE.

>>46041872

You have to chose whether it's an IS 'Mech with Clan equipment or a Clan 'Mech with IS equipment. In the case of the former, no free CASE. In the case of the latter, free CASE.

See the Avatar with Clan weapons or the DA variants of Clan Omnis with IS weapons for further examples.

>>46044847
Word of Blake?

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>>46044870
This one?

>>46044847
I mean obviously Japanese culture isn't dead if they're embracing it across a couple hundred worlds.
What's their signature weapon supposed to be though? MRMs? I never really bother with them.

>>46044922
Yes. Though also the Snakes. That was the point.

The WoB's shit weapon is the Mech Taser, in case it was too unclear. Though they don't taser it up quite as often as the Dracs throw MRMs on designs, the sheer magnitude by which the Mech taser sucks makes it stand out.

>>46044966
I think he meant Samurai culture rather than Japanese in general.

>>46044903
I dunno how valid that is now because we have 'Mechs using different tech types of components down to pretty specific details now, not just weapons. DHS, Endo, etc can all be Clan now, so is it still an IS design if it's got a Clan ES structure and Ferro-Lam? Can you even really determine it anymore? Feels arbitrary in 3145.

>>46045027
WoB also likes Bombast lasers, and those are pretty trash, too

>>46045074
>*angry TSM noises*

>>46045071

>Can you even really determine it anymore?

Yes.

You specify at the start of construction and then go from there.

Programs like SSW or MML don't specifically make you decide because they assume if you're operating the rules at that level you'll know if what you're building is actually an IS design (albeit one with lots of Clan gear perhaps) or a Clan one (again, potentially one with a lot of IS gear) and chose accordingly.

Up to and including hitting the "Use Clan CASE" check box which means you're making that choice explicit.

>>46045119
I was more just pointing out how with the homogenization of tech types and gear in the current era, it seems kinda arbitrary to pick one, when you can do dumb shit like take Clan ES, Ferro-Lam, then say "well it's an IS design though so it's gotta pay half a ton for CASE". Like, in what universe does that make any sense? Rules is rules so it is what it is but it seems silly, and something that needs addressing. Also Clan CASE not being the standard by now on both IS and Clan designs is just silly. The IS couldn't figure out how to natively armor ammo bins in 100 years?

>>46045074
>WoB also likes Bombast lasers, and those are pretty trash, too
Uh, not really. They use some Binary lasers, but I can't recall (or find in MM) a single WoB design that uses them. Closest is the Uraeus, which is 3135 C*. You're probably thinking of the Binary Laser/Blazer.

>>46045235
>but I can't recall (or find in MM) a single WoB design that uses them
"them" reffers to the Bombast here, sorry. Making 4chan posts while distracted is no good.

>>46044952
I'm having trouble reading this.

>>46045235
>>46045270
Yeah, I think I got those mixed up; blazers aren't crap but bombast lasers are

>>46045362
The first column is the overall tonnage of the mech. The second column is the mass used by the reinforced internals. The third is the protection given by the same weight in armor, in order to serve as a basis for comparison.

The two Biped columns are the effective armor reinforced structure gives (Biped Re) and the relative effectiveness of that compared to normal armor (Biped Eff). The two Quad Columns are the same, but because quads have 4 legs instead of 2 legs and 2 arms they have more internal structure. A value above 1 in the Eff column shows that the design gets more raw damage reduction per ton from Reinforced structure than the same mass in standard armor. A value below 1 shows that the design would be better served just putting more armor on.

>>46045583
Except that reinforced internals mean you're still taking crits and you can't use endo, so you're even farther behind than the chart shows

>>46045220

>Like, in what universe does that make any sense?

One where you can be an IS manufacturer who's buying Clan components and assembling them.

>The IS couldn't figure out how to natively armor ammo bins in 100 years?

It relies on Clan-level Ferro and Clan engineering.

>buh buhbut muh 100 years!!11eleventy

Dude we still don't know how Greek Fire worked and have no hope of replicating the Roman cement that set under water. If I took the laptop I'm typing this on back to 1816 there's still no fucking way they'd be replicating them in 1916.

It has been explained many times in fluff why the IS isn't (and can't) make the jump to full Clan level. If you don't want to buy into it that's your decision but it's hardly a situation without ample historical precedent or as though it's illogical.

>>46045659
That's cause we don't have anyone who can tell us how to make us. The IS can just use all those Jaguars they captured to tell them what to do.

>>46045659
>It has been explained many times in fluff why the IS isn't (and can't) make the jump to full Clan level. If you don't want to buy into it that's your decision but it's hardly a situation without ample historical precedent or as though it's illogical.

Shill detected.

>>46045659
>It has been explained many times in fluff why the IS isn't (and can't) make the jump to full Clan level.

Not satisfactorily

>greek fire

We have a fairly good idea, even if not the exact match, and things that function just as well. There's also no real need for greek fire, the DoD isn't pouring billions into researching it or anything.

>roman concrete

Again, we have a fairly good idea of what went into it and adequate substitutes of our own. And some people are working on creating things that are more similar.

I'm pretty sure you're Colt Ward, because you were just making the exact same arguments on the OF like three days ago. So fuck off back there and let sensible people talk.

>>46045659
>If I took the laptop I'm typing this on back to 1816 there's still no fucking way they'd be replicating them in 1916.
What a god-awful argument. Like, of course not, because there are several giant technological leaps that would need to be made first. A better comparison would be to take that same laptop back to a time where the basic components were feasible to make, in low-tech versions, and then see if they manage it in 100 years. Which, give how we went from suitcase-sized cell phones to pocket-sized ones in 20 years, I am fairly confident that someone who can already make CASE, which was tech from the 2800s, in 3050, could then take Clan CASE, and be able to replicate it 100 years later, given that they already have a primitive version of it. Your problem is you're looking at the passage of time as the crux, when the reality is it's the tech. If the people in 1915 had primitive versions of modern laptop components, then you gave them one from 2015, they would have your shitty MacBook Air by 1945. But no, you just had to make the stupid comparison, didn't you?

And no, it has NOT been explained as anything except off-handedly.

>>46045842

They're Jaguars, anon. How cooperative do you really expect them to be? The Sharks/Foxes/Wolves/Bears want their customers to stay dependant too.

>>46045915

>Not satisfactorily

According to you. I find the argument that the IS would have to start at the ore refinery level and rebuild all the way up from there to finally reach Clan-level output, along with the retraining of literally billions of workers along the way to be pretty persuasive reasoning. If they were willing to shut down all production for 3-5 years at a time and spend trillions on infrastructure upgrades and retraining they could do it. But that's money they don't have, and time they can't afford to be without manufacturing while their neighbours bulk up with gear that's nearly as good as what they'd have many years down the track and spending money on Clan products to boot.

There are other considerations to take into account. The Clans started off where the IS was in 3050 and it took them over 250 years to reach the point they were at the beginning of the Invasion.

The IS is in a situation where they can get someone else to do the hard work for them and can explore other areas (Ballistic-Reinforced Armour, Pocket WarShips,BA equipment, TSEMP, RISC tech...) instead.

That *you* don't think those are good enough reasons doesn't mean they aren't. Compared to FASA Physics or FASAnomics it's arguably the most realistic part of the game.

>So fuck off back there and let sensible people talk.

I'm not him and I don't give a shit about what was said over there. If you were really being sensible you wouldn't even have said that.

>>46046189
>start at the ore refinery level

Easy given the IS's existing industrial base

>along with the retraining of literally billions of workers along the way

lolwut. The IS has what, 60 factories with maybe 60,000 workers?

>The Clans started off where the IS was in 3050 and it took them over 250 years to reach the point they were at the beginning of the Invasion.

On uninhabited, resource-poor worlds with a fraction of a percent of the population of the IS.

>That *you* don't think those are good enough reasons doesn't mean they aren't. Compared to FASA Physics or FASAnomics it's arguably the most realistic part of the game.

This is a direct part of FASAnomics

>>46046189
>rebuilding everything at once
>not doing a gradual upgrade across the IS and using the new clantech factories to produce more clantech

pls

do you even logistics? you don't just "shut down the military for 3-5 years at a time" when you want to replace your equipment, you phase it out.

>>46046278

>Easy given the IS's existing industrial base

Which you have to do across the ENTIRE INNER SPHERE.

Like, seriously. Have a look at the changes to iron/steel refining techniques. Now understand that you're not just overhauling iron/steel refineries on one world, but on EVERY world so you can fully upgrade. Except it's not just iron/steel. It's copper. Aluminium.Rubidium. Ruthenium. Improved carbon nano-tubes. Dozens upon dozens of raw materials. Now you've done that, you can upgrade your component manufacturing centres. More exact machining. More flawless focusing crystals and lenses. Higher-tolerance resistors. More advanced capacitors with greater storage ability. Again, hundreds if not thousands of components. And having done that, you can finally upgrade your 'Mech/ASF/BA/whatever factories to use all of those parts.

>The IS has what, 60 factories with maybe 60,000 workers?

For the final product? I don't know, the factory count might not be too far off but the worker count is decidedly low. Either way you can't just upgrade the factory and call it done, you need to get the parts and raw materials it relies on to pump out the finished product.

And yes, this is literally spelled out in canon. In HB: HD the NAIS is stated to understand Clan tech but has a limited ability to roll it out due to the infrastructure changes required to use it.

>but that's 3067, it's THE CURRENT YEAR

Yeah, after the Jihad, which totally wasn't disruptive. And there were no efforts to upgrade which is why no Successor State has any native Clan-level manufacturing. And then nothing happened for a while so everyone could finish their upgrades.

Oh wait, the Republic era was everyone frantically trying to recover from the Jihad, including upgrading parts of their industry and establishing some Clan-level sites. Military output was lowered to try and recover on the civilian front. And then everyone invaded everyone else.

>>46046189
>modern IRL factories have never retooled and retrained thousands of workers; it's economically infeasible!
Expanding this to even a galactic scale is not outrageous given 100 years of time.

Also:
>~2820: Exodus Civil War ends
>2825: first use of Clan CASE
>2854: first Omnimech, which also assumes integration of Clan CASE as a fixture, as per modern OmniMechs
So they managed to make OmniMechs in 34 years, and refine the Star League CASE in 4 years into it's current Clan version. It didn't take 250 years for them to do it, unless you count the time the technology spent in the Hegemony first, then sure, I guess it took a while, but how were they able to take it from how it was in 2800 to what they made it in FOUR YEARS?! The IS STILL hasn't done it in 100 starting in the same situation!

>>46046332

Which they did. Note how little old tech is still in use by the actual House forces (as opposed to militia, Faction-Lite outfits like the Stormhammers) and how much Clan tech they have.

Look at sites like Pinnacle and what they're putting out.

There are IS-built machines that have incorporated Clan-level tech at the factory level for decades now. The process is ongoing, they've just had other priorities like recovering from the Jihad or getting their ass kicked by the neighbours slowing them down.

>>46045617
As the guy that made the chart, it's evaluating it in the most ideal circumstances and even there it's pretty lacking most of the time. Quads are pretty much the only place it's even possibly worth it, since you can pretty easily find yourself without the crits for Endo and it's more effective on quads anyway. It DOES have some advantages over Hardened in that it doesn't slow you down or make your PSRs harder (or take full damage from ReLasers, now that they're just bad instead of utter shit), but that's still generally a specialist thing.

The chart mainly exists as an easy way to tell if you're getting fucked by using it (75/100 ton bipeds) or if you're getting something not 100% shit (25 ton and 40 ton quads). I mean, technically 10 ton mechs are the best for it, but nobody designs 10 ton mechs.

>>46046592

The first OmniMech was a refitted standard chassis, modified to accept pods. But if you could into fluff, you wouldn't even be making these arguments, so I'm not surprised.

>BUT MUH 2800S!!11eleventy

You do realise that by the time the Clans were building their own CASE there were few if indeed *any* IS factories left that could incorporate that shit, and it took another 200+ years for the IS to understand and replicate that tech, right?

The IS did *not* start in the same situation. They had to redevelop it force-wide and roll it out, not really understanding why it worked only that it did for decades at a time. Read the BoK trilogy, actual experts are really rare and the average user/worker/whoever may as well be a fucking Tech-Priest reciting the Holy Ritual of Activation for how well they really understand what they're dealing with.

You can bitch about the believability of that if you want- and I have no doubt you will- but it's a conceit of the setting and if you can't suspend your disbelief enough to deal with the things making 'Mechs the key instrument of war then maybe this just isn't the setting for you.

>>46046511
>Which you have to do across the ENTIRE INNER SPHERE

Pretty sure that if I'm building mechs for the LC I don't give a flying fuck about whatever Luthien is doing.

>>46046511
>Yeah, after the Jihad, which totally wasn't disruptive.

The IS has just had 60 years of relative peace. They should be making Clantech by now.

Another thing you're totally overlooking is that the more people you have, the more there are contributing to growth.

>>46046708
>it's a conceit of the setting and if you can't suspend your disbelief enough to deal with the things making 'Mechs the key instrument of war then maybe this just isn't the setting for you.


I can suspend it for myomer and all the other shit needed to make mechs work, but that's about the limit. All this lostech dark age operation whack-a-nerd etc bullshit needs to go.

>>46046777

>The IS has just had 60 years of relative peace.

That relative peace still involved pretty major border wars for a lot of factions, and trying to recover from WoB/WoB allied forces wrecking the manufacturing base of every state.

>They should be making Clantech by now.

They are, in limited amounts.

>Another thing you're totally overlooking is that the more people you have, the more there are contributing to growth.

I really love it when ideological capitalists (read: Americans) try to talk about economics.

If that's all it takes, why is the Rust Belt a thing? Why is wealth concentrated on the shorelines of America? Why is it that when you give rich people more money they put it into stocks and bonds instead of getting enterpreneurial and starting more local businesses that have trickle-down effects?

It's almost as if there are other factors in play.

>>46046708
No, at this point I am arguing with you and how wrong you are, not about Battletech and any flaws with it. Because you're wrong, flat out, and addressed none of my points in an adequate fashion. And flat out ignored be blowing you out about your stupid laptop comparison. So good job there.

Okay, so in my digging, OmniMechs became a full-fledged thing in 2859. Oh god, I am so sorry for that huge gap of time. By 2873 all the Clans had them. So... sorry hoss, it doesn't matter if the Coyotl was a bit of an error, it's still at most what, less than 30 years to go from Star League CASE to Clan a integrated in all Omnis, including fully accepted Omnitech?

And yes, the IS did start in the same place. CASE was actually re-introduced prior to 3050, and in full swing during the early invasion, so much so they were retrofitting all kinds of stuff with it in field refits. And when you have computer files to tell you how to do something, you pretty much know all there is to know about it if you can replicate it industrially.

>appealing to novels in the BT universe as an authority on fluff and crunch
Oh wow, you are reaching HARD.

>>46046881
>Clan CASE isn't in full production because of "muh capitalist boogeymen"
Troll confirmed. Confirmed so damn hard. Jesus Christ dude. You really think that with all this war going on that some fucker is gonna go "you know, we could get nuked at any time, and other shit can happen, we can get taked over or destroyed, and we can make this tech that could make the machines defending us better, but that could MAKE SOME POOR PEOPLE HAVE MONEY! FUCK NO WE AIN'T DOING IT!"

Wow. That might work if these people were isolated from the troubles, but as the Jihad proves, nobody is immune.

>>46046881
>I really love it when ideological capitalists (read: Americans)
Not in this argument, but as soon as you drag nationality in as a reason the other side is wrong you've lost. Not because that itself is a losing condition (it is, instead, merely utterly irrelevant), but because it shows you're desperate to find anything that could possibly stop the other side from ripping your argument to shreds.

Hey GreekFire...if you're present i'd like to propose a MotW article topic.

As you're quite possibly my favorite of the article authors i'd like to see an article from you on the Tessen if at all possible.

>>46046927

>appealing to MUH FEELINGS ARE MORE RIGHT THAN YOURS as an authority over actual fluff and crunch

OK then.

>And when you have computer files to tell you how to do something, you pretty much know all there is to know about it if you can replicate it industrially.

And now I am laughing. You're seriously arguing loss of institutional knowledge isn't a thing, because schematics? NASA would disagree.

>BUT CAAAAAAASE

Rage on impotently if you like. The universe is clearly marching towards a unified tech base, with hiccups along the way. If it's not happening fast enough for your tastes I suggest you take that up with Randall, Ben, and Herb since they're the only ones who can do anything about it.

I, on the other hand, am fine with it. Compared to other things I have to suspend disbelief for it barely registers.

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>>46046881
>I really love it when ideological capitalists (read: Americans) try to talk about economics.

Here's a rebuttal that's more your speed.

>>46046981
>>46047011

>all this strawmanning

Clan CASE isn't in full production because everyone had other priorities. Simple as that.

The Dracs lost virtually all their manufacturing sites in the Jihad and had to start over, interrupted by regular spankings from the Bears and a civil war.

The Lyrans had to get over the Jihad and being reamed by the Falcons.

The FWL disintegrated completely and didn't have the unity work effectively towards getting back to where they were prior to the Jihad, let alone exceeding that point.

The Suns bought into Stone's demilitarisation program and were buying a shit ton of Clan gear any way.

The Capellans didn't have industrial capacity to match their neighbours prior to the Jihad and were severely fucked up by it, the Capellan Crusades, and the Victoria War.

No matter how much you try to argue otherwise it's not like the Republic era was something anyone went into with a surplus of wealth and industry. It also wasn't completely uneventful for 60 years.

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>>46044643
Is there even a WoB waifu?

>>46047161
No, because the WoB is 100% homosexual

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>>46047161
They have a husbando

>>46047161
If we're going to go with that maybe the mad scientist who invented the mechs in that show, or would she be better as the Terran Hegemony?

>>46047187
What the fuck is with his tie?

>>46047060
>all this shitty attempting to save face
Nope. Can't counter one point (novels are notorious for bad/inconsistent fluff and ureliable for anything related to fluff or crunch) so you bitch out with "Ok then".

>NASA wouldn't actually. What is it they can't replicate that they have all the necessary files and records for? If you have the necessary schemata to makes something, you know how to make it, otherwise you can't. So which is it? Can the IS make CASE or not? Oh wait...

>can't refute third point, must... recover...
Okay. It's been a hoot, but since you've signed off already, I will too. Also still didn't explain the laptop thing in a way that refutes my points; you're just hiding under TPTB's skirts now. Dat appeal to authority doe...

>>46047152
>there are no technological advancements during wartime
To the contrary, wartime fuels the MOST technological advancement. I use history as a reference.

>>46047242
>mad scientist
>cyborg
sadly, she's not yandere for the FWL girl.

>>46047245
Space future

>>46047257

>Nope. Can't counter one point (novels are notorious for bad/inconsistent fluff and ureliable for anything related to fluff or crunch) so you bitch out with "Ok then".

Novels are just one part. The SBs say the same thing.

>What is it they can't replicate that they have all the necessary files and records for?

Engines, insulation, some computers and circuits too. Turns out people don't write every last detail down in schematics, they assume the reader will have a certain level of base knowledge if they're trying to use it. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

>can the IS make CASE

Why are you so fixated on this? No really, why? It's a half-ton and one crit. Is it that hard to imagine that the IS powers would say "fuck it, focus on replicating energy weapons/DHS/XLs/LRMs instead the way they actually have done? Or simply judge it not worthwhile in an era when you can have the vastly superior CASE II?

>JET FUEL CAN'T MELT STEEL LAPTOPS, CHECKMATE!

Such argument. Much convincing.

Clan tech overall was that much better. Individual elements of it may not have been, but the effect as a whole was. It takes time to fully catch up.

>appeal to authority

Your argument has literally been "it doesn't make any sense that the fluff doesn't have things the way I want them."

Change it for your AU. Fuck if I care. But in canon everyone is developing Clan tech and the rate of its roll-out makes sense given the damage done by the Jihad and the SharkFoxes' alternative option.

>>46047273

>Boosted C3 was not developed
>neither was TSEMP
>neither was Ballistic-Reinforced Armour
>or RE Lasers
>or Impact-resistant armour
>or BA LB-X
>or...

Plenty of new tech was developed. They just weren't upgrading fully to Clan tech because they were going off in their own directions and could buy or salvage whatever they weren't focusing on upgrading to themselves.

>>46047388
>Engines, insulation, some computers and circuits too. Turns out people don't write every last detail down in schematics, they assume the reader will have a certain level of base knowledge if they're trying to use it. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

That was his point, they IS had literally everything to make what the need, NASA doesn't. And it's not that they couldn't remake them, either, they would just have to do a bit more work.

I've seen people bring this up as an example of institutional forgetfulness many times now, and I always wonder why you and the rest who use it seem to think that just because they don't have everything they need to make it right now, it's impossible. But it was made once, and therefore it can be made again.

>>46047388
>Turns out people don't write every last detail down in schematics
I guess they must have for CASE then because the IS can manufacture it no problem.

It's funny watching how shit you are at this.

>SBs say the same thing
If that's true, that's some evidence I can get behind! Good job!

>still dodging the laptop thing
You fucked up so hard it's laughable. Dude. Dude stop. Go back to the OF. It's totally fine that we don't have Clan tech rolling out of every factory in the Inner Sphere. It is what it is. It's just funny watching you be unable to defend even the most basic of points, except for the one gold star you get for the SB reference that still doesn't validate anything else you've said or not said in any way.

I'm fixated on CASE because you can't explain it. I could pick something else, but why bother? This is fun.

>>46047417
>proving my point in greentext somehow invalidates my point
Uh... I dunno what you were trying to accomplish here, but...

>>46047456

Sure, it can be replicated.

Eventually.

If one wants to put in the effort.

But if in the meantime you can send stuff up on Russian rockets or what you've already got works well enough and you're working on better stuff (buying from the Clans, using normal CASE, working towards CASE II respectively) why bother doing it?

Just because something *can* be done doesn't mean there are good reasons for it, or that it would be prioritised.

Same as having X years with Y number of people doesn't automatically make it retarded that Z thing some anon wants to see hasn't happened yet.

>>46047388
>Turns out people don't write every last detail down in schematics
But that's exactly what the Memory Cores are for.
They detail the manufacture of even the tiniest of parts so that if you had a copy you could theoretically make a Highlander, and every part in it, in a scrapyard. It's why the Inner Sphere even had CASE and the like in the first place when the Clans invaded

>>46047606

It's actually not.

The Helm Core took years to decode and even longer to understand. It gave the IS theories and knowledge they'd long forgotten but they still had to apply it.

And even when they did have it, they didn't always use it. CASE isn't always fitted to designs with explosive components. It's sometimes not even fitted to locations where it can even do a damn thing to protect a machine (see the 3050 upgrade for the Marauder II for just one example of this).

Again, just because something can be done (in theory) doesn't mean it will be done in practice.

We have enough food and clean water, right now, to ensure nobody dies of thirst or starvation. Setting up a logistical network to distribute it would take time, but nobody even has any interest in doing so due to them being happy with the current situation.

Material and manufacturing costs for life-saving drugs are low but the price on the finished product is absurdly high, jacked up to that point because the monopolies know they can. What else are you going to do?

My university genetics professor literally had a 6-month treatment that fixed hayfever with studies demonstrating similar results for asthma and peanut allergies (among other, similar conditions). In fucking 2002. His research was shut down because he couldn't get any drug companies to provide funding. Why? Because they already had a monopoly and if he could make his retroviral therapy permanent they'd never be able to sell ventolin or antihistamines again.

Even just knowing how to do something isn't enough. There has to be an impetus to follow through. For most Clan tech it appears there wasn't enough interest there.

I don't even think that's surprising. If I was in charge of an IS state, my priorities in order would be Clan DHS, Clan XL Engines, Clan Energy Weapons, Clan LRMs, Clan Gauss Rifles long before I even thought about CASE.

>>46047739
>I don't even think that's surprising. If I was in charge of an IS state, my priorities in order would be Clan DHS, Clan XL Engines, Clan Energy Weapons, Clan LRMs, Clan Gauss Rifles long before I even thought about CASE.


And yet, the IS is barely producing those. Only the FS get Clan energy weapons

>>46047739
>There has to be an impetus to follow through.
For Clantech in general, there is a damn good one, but nobody really makes it anyways, because reasons.

The FWL should be fucking rolling in Clantech given their being at peace through the Clan Invasion, getting a shitload of it carted home, and making bank selling weapons to everyone else.

Or ComStar/WoB, who never had the backslide (which is its own issue) and access to everyone's research.

>>46047739
>My university genetics professor literally had a 6-month treatment that fixed hayfever with studies demonstrating similar results for asthma and peanut allergies (among other, similar conditions). In fucking 2002. His research was shut down because he couldn't get any drug companies to provide funding. Why? Because they already had a monopoly and if he could make his retroviral therapy permanent they'd never be able to sell ventolin or antihistamines again.
Do you have a single fact to back this up or is this just more communist critical theory major "Jews did 9/1, my former terrorist professor totally proved it and cured cancer with le weed" shit?

>>46047739
>My university genetics professor literally had a 6-month treatment that fixed hayfever with studies demonstrating similar results for asthma and peanut allergies (among other, similar conditions). In fucking 2002. His research was shut down because he couldn't get any drug companies to provide funding. Why? Because they already had a monopoly and if he could make his retroviral therapy permanent they'd never be able to sell ventolin or antihistamines again.
>nobody wanted something that would have taken away the market shares of their competitors

Bullshit

>>46047799

>And yet, the IS is barely producing those. Only the FS get Clan energy weapons

Dracs are making LRMs (Shigunga series). FWL was nearing Clan DHS in its XTRO. Lyrans are home-building XL engines.

If you actually look at the TRs you can see plenty of examples of this stuff. Pinnacle ER Lasers and PPCs are just one example, not the only example.

ComStar/WoB wasn't militarised for most of their history and arguably had a setup antithetical to large-scale scientific advancement without outside pressure. They still had the Hidden worlds, along with mothballed WarShips and the Terran SDS and ROM supremacy.

>the FWL

Didn't have much Clan tech to begin with, check FM: U. Then look at how much of the FWLM was lost in the Jihad. Then the disruption of the League breaking apart. Then the disruption of border skirmishes.

>>46047869

Google Hendrick Daniel Kennedy. He was making advancements in that area and also managed to stop tremoring in patients with conditions similar to Parkinson's, before being sued because some asstard flipped out over him describing Parkinsons'like sympoms as "Parkinsons-like symptoms" in a research paper about how he'd managed to stop tremoring in patients with similar symptoms to Parkinson's.

This shit happens all the fucking time anon. Does it sound like some retarded conspiracy theory? Probably, yeah. Unfortunately people actually are that moronic.

Drug companies pass on stuff all the time because it runs contrary to their current business model. They could corner a new market and advance science if they wanted to, but that entails risk of failure and when you can just extend patents and strong-arm governments into passing laws that favour you, why bother when you're already making a crapload and the alternative is a chance of crashing and burning hard-core? Particularly when your competition is operating on the same model?

The same thing applies to a host of things, including IC decisions in BT. Inertia is a very real thing.

>>46048221
>FWL was nearing Clan DHS in its XTRO

>Technicron of Tongatapu has recently announced an
experimental series of Awesomes, the AWS-11, which hopes to
exploit locally built copies of Clan heat sinks to bring unparalleled
particle cannon firepower to the battlefield. Unfortunately, as of
this publication, it appears that Technicron’s heat sink supplier was
overly optimistic and/or deliberately deceptive about their ability
to produce the more-advanced heat sinks. As a result, a plethora
of AWS-11s with combinations of heavy PPCs, ER PPCs, light PPCs,
snub nosed PPCs, and PPC capacitors now linger in computer data
banks, their physical construction pending a steady supply of heat
sinks that will not shatter when first stressed with hot coolant.
In anticipation of the heat sinks, though, Technicron did
secure several stores of Clan-made sinks (presumably from
Diamond Shark merchants or Word of Blake swag) to build several
prototypes.

>>46048221
>Hendrick Daniel Kennedy

Only result:
http://www.librarything.com/author/kennedyhendrickdanie

Yep, lots of groundbreaking research

>>46048110

Realshit.

It had no use to the drug companies because they couldn't sell it.

If they priced it equivalently to a six-month course of other treatments people would opt for continuing their current program since it was less up-front outlay. If they priced it lower than that it harmed their existing business model. If they priced it higher than that nobody would even consider it.

Same sort of shit with integrating Clan tech. Sure there's a payoff but is it worth screwing with your current, working, business model? Maybe the houses aren't interested in paying more for what you could offer. Maybe they just aren't interested in your production lines going fallow for retooling when they could be pumping out masses of other designs they do want in the interim, especially when the asshats across the border keep invading every five fucking seconds meaning there's never a good time to halt production.

Business is very risk-averse. Consumers often don't like change. This is just human nature. It is also in human nature to work against what would be better in the long term because the short-term benefits are better for the decision-makers right then and there.

>>46048313
>>46048221
bitter anarkiddie pls go

>>46048313
>price lower
>take control of the whole allergy market
>laugh at the other companies and profit

>>46048277

>he doesn't have the academic options enabled
>he doesn't include any other keywords

Rigorous research going on there.

Also consider that most academic papers simply aren't accessible to the public, you need to be a subscriber or have subscription access via your workplace or University to read them.

And then you'd have to understand what was being said, in language that is both technical and arcane.

>>46048254

Pretty sure they'd be able to do more than that by 3085. Besides, there's still the question of what they can do as opposed to what the consumer wants and/or what's economical to actually do.

>>46048396
They couldn't in 3079, and according to you tech progress is supposed to be glacial. And it says right there that they couldn't.

Hoist by your own petard

>>46048436

3079 =/= 3145
Slow or directed towards other ends =/= glacial.

But whatever, anything short of the IS being unable to replicate Clan tech by the end of 3051 is clearly retarded.

I'm out. There are reasons, they make sense to me, if they piss you off then whatever. Make your own AU, field customs with Clan gear, I don't give a shit.

fuck all this commie bullshit, post custom archers; it's said to have enough variants for a TRO all on it's own, but it's pretty short on variants in canon, so post em

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>>46048501

>>46048486
>Pretty sure they'd be able to do more than that by 3085.

fuuuck youuuuuuuu

>>46048573
breddy gud, runs too hot though. And even with TSM doesn't have a way to ride the curve.

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>>46048501
Simple Introtech one I used for a while; was salvage that had lost the LRM in the right torso, and the MLs on both arms. So the CTR ones were stripped to replace the arm lasers and the LRM was replaced by an AC/10 with two tons of ammo. Works pretty good, actually.

>>46048783

TSM's only there because it had the space. Figured might as well.

Heat is tolerable, run +ER LL +2 MMLs for zero heat. Stationary + ER LL + 3 MMLs = 2 over.

Further tinkering led to one with a L-PPC instead of the ER LL, no TSM, and another 2 tons of ammo. Probably better, but eh.

>>46048883
>Further tinkering led to one with a L-PPC instead of the ER LL, no TSM, and another 2 tons of ammo. Probably better, but eh.

I think there's a WoB one that does that with 4 LPPCs

>>46048899

>ARC-9K
>WoB

uwotm8

>>46015377
This noob didn't read all the Jihad books - doesn't know Sun Tzu is HANSE DAVION'S SON. Made from sperm they took from Hanse when he was kidnapped and replaced with that double back in 3025.

Go here

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=49086.0

And post about your issues with Battlecorps.

>>46045659
>and have no hope of replicating the Roman cement that set under water.

Anon, any regular old concret sets under water already.

The chemical reaction in fact requires water to start in the first place. Having too much around it for too much of the reaction's time just weakens it structurally, so the basic solution is to add additives to speed up the process and to use more more to account for the concret's potential drop in pressure resistance.

And the Romans were not a bright people. Their reign set us back roughly a thousand years in the field of mathematics, among others.

>>46045915
>There's also no real need for greek fire

It wasn't even particularily effective back in the days.

>>46048277
>librarything
>for articles in scientific publications

Shit son, what are you doing?

I remember someone posting a breakdown of the various stealth systems and how they work, anyone got it handy?

Where are the rules for the Viral Jammer? Google didn't give me anything helpful to go on.

>>46049890
Aren't there basically no rules for that except "it's fucking magic"?

>>46049890

IntOps.

>>46049909
>>46049890
Interstellar Ops, I believe. The beta PDF might be in the OP folder.

>>46049949
>>46049948
So I found the release version, but where the hell is the actual construction data? tonnage and crits and BV and all?

>>46050076

Charts in the back probably.

CGL is very adverse to organising books in any kind of sensible manner.

>>46039069
You know the GAU-8 is a shit weapon don't you but built for a specific purpose, as all weapons with a high rate of fire are?

It's essentially a 30mm autocannon and we have those on current IFVs and they are not greatly effective except against other IFVs.

The armour penetration of the GAU-8 is about 60mm. This makes it not able to penetrate MBTs at all - the front of the current Abrams is roughly 900 rha-e, the sides are about 5-600 rha-e and the rear is about 2-300 rha-e. The only reason the GUA-8 works is that it is mounted on the A-10 and that flies, so it can fire on the top armour of a tank. If it needs to hit other angles, it has missiles.

Unfortunately BattleTech does not simulate armour correctly so in that case the GAU-8 is probably better in the game than in reality but nowhere near 20 damage!

But anyone who thinks it's a be-all and end-all weapon should ask themselves one simple question. If it is this great weapon, why don't we all use it more?

>>46050230
It's copypasta, holmes. Just giving you a heads up for next time.

>>46050273
Ah.
Well, I feel like a twat.
Thanks...

>>46050230
A GAU-8 in BT would be a form of Light Cannon. They are incapable of damaging even 3025 standard armor due to damage reduction.

>>46050076
There's a giant table in the MIDDLE of the book. Check the index, it is not exactly the middle...

>>46050397
>>46050216
Pg 216, to be specific.

>>46046189
>I find the argument that the IS would have to start at the ore refinery level and rebuild all the way up from there to finally reach Clan-level output, along with the retraining of literally billions of workers along the way to be pretty persuasive reasoning
Is that an actual reason given? It sounds utterly retarded and divorced from reality.

>Compared to the fanatical and elite units contributed by the other states, many were surprised when the Capellan Confederation sent the Legionnaires as their contribution to Task Force Serpent, the reborn Star League's assault on the Clan Smoke Jaguar homeworld of Huntress in 3059. Publicly the reason stated was that with CCAF's elite forces tied up with stabilizing the so-called Chaos March and Operation Bulldog they couldn't afford to send anyone else, while many saw it as representing Chancellor Sun-Tzu Liao's low expectation of the mission's success.

Why didn't everyone just get together to gangbang the Cappies to death after this sort of bullshit?

>>46050889
The Confederation is too cool, anon.

>>46050307
You kind of are, no offense kid.

>>46050889
To be fair, the CCAF was the smallest House military and couldn't afford to just toss away an elite unit.
Plus Capellan units were overrepresented in Bulldog anyway. And Kingston's troops fought well despite not being rated elite.

>>46050965
>Plus Capellan units were overrepresented in Bulldog anyway.

Come again?

>>46050884
Not quite, but Clan material engineering being overall better than the IS is supposed to be part of why most of their shit is lighter and/or not as bulky for the weight.

>>46051043
The smallest House military had five formations in Bulldog, plus one on Serpent, and technically St. Ivers are Capellans too so that's another two in Bulldog and one on Serpent.

By contrast the the FWL had only three on Bulldog and one on Serpent, and the Lyrans five on Bulldog and one on Serpent.

>>46051108
>St. Ivers are Capellans too

Say that to my face not online cappie scumbag

>>46051122
Wayward cousins or not, each led by a Liao.
Besides while I'm not on board with every Colemanism I never really liked St. Ives and the "good Capellan" crap anyway.

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>>46050884

>Is that an actual reason given?

Yes. See pic.

>It sounds utterly retarded and divorced from reality.

Not really, similar stuff actually happens in the real world.

>>46050889

XIN SHENG XIN SHENG

>>46050889
>Why didn't everyone just get together to gangbang the Cappies to death after this sort of bullshit?
Why would they?

The Federated Suns was too busy being retarded and the Free Worlds League was more interested in raking in mad dosh.

>>46051223

>the Free Worlds League was more interested in raking in mad dosh.

I think you man gifting them military shit, including WarShips.

>>46051255
The Impavido program was pre-Bulldog, and a mere three of them made sense back when the CapCon looked to be playing the future role of meat-shield for the League.

>>46051273

Impavido launched in the same year as Bulldog.

>>46051328
Therefore presumably the deals were finalized before, as is customary.

>>46045659
>Dude we still don't know how Greek Fire worked

Yeah I dunno, I can't believe anyone hired me either.

>>46051328
Impavido launched in 3057 with the class formally introduced in 3058, Bulldog was in 3059.

New thread here:
>>46051580