Go/Baduk/Weiqi general (/gog/)

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Do you have a moment to talk about our Lord & Savior, Captain Dylan Hunt?

>>46011733
>3D Go

>In order to outplay the AI
>We had to evolve

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His name was literally Go.
Was his divine ascent fated?

>Go Seigen did not start learning the game of Go until he was nine, a relatively late age for a professional (Honinbo Dosaku first learned Go at seven and Honinbo Shusaku before he was six). His father, who had taken Go lessons from Honinbo Shuho while studying in Japan, was responsible for introducing him to the game. Go Seigen quickly excelled and soon became known as a Go prodigy. By the time he was 12, less than three years after first learning the game, he was already of professional strength, as evidenced by his games against the visiting Japanese player Iwamoto Kaoru, 6p in 1926.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_Seigen

>>46011565
Apparently 4chan thinks my post with links to stuff is spam and I can't seem to reformat it in a way it likes.

Is there something I need to do? I don't want to have to replace every '.' with 'dot' or something like that.

>>46011880
He's famous just because he was the only good player back then. Modern players would sweep the floor with him.

>>46012032
There must be some link that gets caught in the spam filter. Are there any links that use url shorteners?

>The blood-vomiting game was played during the Edo period of Japan, on June 27, 1835, between Honinbo Jowa (white) and Intetsu Akaboshi (black). It is noted for the three moves that were allegedly given to Jowa during the game by ghosts, and for the premature death of the Go prodigy Intetsu Akaboshi who died after coughing up blood onto the board after the game.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood-vomiting_game

Spooky

>>46012145
Still waiting for Lee to shit his pants in the final game.

>>46012145

>The match lasted for four days without any adjournments

Ahh, those were the days.

>>46012074
Who is Kitani Minoru? Sakata Eio? Takagawa?

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>>46011565
>>46012129

Ok here are some more links to useful shit, I will post them in shorter chunks so I can work out what is setting off the spam filter:

>Joseki database (A joseki is a known variation usually played in the corner in which both players gain an equal result locally)
http://www.josekipedia.com/ (Warning: Rote memorisation of joseki or using this website during a game WILL MAKE YOU WEAKER, if you are 15kyu+ then you should not be worrying about joseki too much)

>Life and death problems (tsumego)
https://tsumego.tasuki.org/ an excellent collection of problems. Tsumego is best done entirely in your head and without confirming the answers. The beginner collection may still be too advanced for some so don't worry if they are hard. The struggle will improve your reading though.

>Guide to becoming stronger
http://senseis.xmp.net/?BenjaminTeuber/GuideToBecomeStrong

>>46008202
When I thought about it in relation to what I read in the paper about AlphaGo in Nature, I realized its programming really would encourage wishful thinking like this! The neural network which evaluates the quality of positions doesn't just get applied to the positions the AI considers, but also semi-random continuations of the game beyond the positions. In a circumstance depending on a long and specific sequence of moves, the component of the position evaluation which comes from the continuations would be absolutely unrepresentative of the truth!

Basically they need to reprogram it to take the geometric mean of the two instead of the arithmetic mean and they should be golden.

How does this make you feel?

>The tradition at the time dictated whoever played White had the right to adjourn the game at anytime, and there was no sealing of moves. This meant that Shusai, being the nominally stronger player and thus holding White, could adjourn the game whenever it was his turn to play and continue deliberating at his leisure during the adjournment. Shusai called adjournments some 13 times, all at the start of his turn to move, thus prolonging the match to a period of three months (16 October 1933 – 19 January 1934). For instance, on the eighth day of the match, Shusai played first and Go Seigen replied within two minutes. Shusai then thought for three and a half hours but only to adjourn the game. During these adjournments, Shusai would retreat home to study the game with his students.

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>>46012340

Back then there was no komi, so it makes sense.

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>>46011565
>>46012304

>Pro game pattern search
http://ps.waltheri.net/

>Twitch streams
Go to twitch and search "Go Board Game" (I guess twitch links are spam filtered here) There are fairly regular strong players who stream go. Viewer count is always low so you can ask lots of questions.

>.SGF hosting (.SGF is the file format for Go, most servers allow you to download a .sgf of your games.)
http://eidogo.com/upload then link it to us and we can view your game on this website and review it for you.

>>46012340
I love that! How popular were events like this?

What is the oldest record of a Go game?

>>46011565

Fuck off Google shill

>>46012547

>Possibly the earliest recorded Go game, around 230 AD.

http://senseis.xmp.net/?WuDiagrams

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>Chinese archaeologists discovered a broken piece of a pottery go board from the Western Han Dynasty (206 BC - 24 AD) in Shaanxi Province.

>This board might have been made from a floor tile, and that it did not belong to the royal family since the carvings are too rough. Li said the board could have been made by the tomb guards who played go to pass the time. "That proves that go was being played not only by nobles, but also by ordinary people like tomb guards, more than 2,000 years ago," Li noted.

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>In 717-718, Kibi was part of the Japanese mission to Tang China (Kentōshi) along with Abe no Nakamaro. Genbō Kibi stayed in China for 17 years before returning to Japan. He is credited with bringing back a number of things, introducing to Japan for the first time the game of go and the art of embroidery.

>>46012453
>>46011565

>Hikaru no Go
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy6qUnpsApbrDNbLrr_KiV5aqQmNqW9ie Anime that got lots of japanese children to play go.

>Proverbs
http://senseis.xmp.net/?GoProverbs "Ancient ah chinese secret".

>Pro player ratings
http://www.goratings.org/

>Go Quest
http://wars.fm/go9?lang=en#login Good app for quick 9x9/13x13 games on mobile, but you can also play it here.


All the links I have for now

>>46013040
Consider adding this to your list.
http://igokisen.web.fc2.com/news.html
some people might be interested in following the professional scene.

>>46013101
Nice, thanks, I didn't know about this one.

>>46013040
Ancient Chinese secret, huh?

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I think I might start playing a game a week.
I hope I reach single digit kyu some day.

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Should AlphaGo have a flag?

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>>46013313
BetaGo should be on there at all. its not the same thing as a single player. its like if you listed groups of players in single spots or something. like if it was team go

is that a real list anyway? i find it hard to believe officials take BetaGo seriously

>>46013313
Yes, the Union Jack, just like in the Lee Sedol matches.

>>46013390
>should

oops mean shouldnt

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T minus 7.5 hours

>>46013786

Are people betting on this thing?
I wonder what the odds are like.

>>46013469
thank you lee sedol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT6T_s7Tcdg

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>>46015455

what the actual fuck did I just watch


>>46013255
>I hope I reach single digit kyu some day.

It's shit. Getting to ~6kyu and up means playing against people who are memorizing joseki dictionaries and know every tesuji point along the way. If you don't have the response memorized, you lose. Even if you read it out properly, you get fucked on time.

It's like the Go version of elo hell, except you don't have teammates to blame. If you can power through to the low dans you get to play Go again, but if you can't you're better off sinking back down to ~10-12kyu where people know how to play but haven't gone full-autist-learning-by-rote mode.

I'm mostly making this up.
Mostly.

>>46012281
no idea, sound foreign though

>>46015928
>what the actual fuck did I just watch
Alphago (white) defeated Showry (black)

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We joseki now.

Black to play.

>>46016425
Black to 2-J

>>46016425
>no san-san

>>46016425
c6 guaranteed win

>>46016516
Only a pleb would play c6.

>>46016535
You gotta share the cake brah no need to fight over it.

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>>46016535

Let's find out!

>>46012032
Put the links in a pastebin (or several pastebins by category) and just link the pastebin.

>>46017654
>"So, Michael. How do you like this position?"

>>46018026
It's alright, it plugs a nice hole here, but let me show you a different variation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns96XaUmpR4

Based Michael Redmond

>>46015928
>the mostly made-up stuff
This actually puts a voice to my concerns about getting into this game. I'm worried I will only find people like that. Because I've known a couple and one was respectable and fun to play with and chill, but the other was, well, wasn't an enjoyable person on or off the board.

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>>46018764
I was going to also turn Chris into a tanuki but I didn't feel like it

Is the next AlphaGo game tonight? I saw "Tuesday" somewhere, but it's on the other side of the international date line from me.

>>46020084

Should be, yeah.

How do you guys perceive the 4th match? Was it because Sedol surprised the bot, or was it just AlphaGo purposely throwing?

>>46020084

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzpW10DPHeQ

Wow, I didn't realize we had a general.

I love how AlphaGo has inspired all this talk about Go lately.

Sadly, I suck. Still double digit kyu, but I'm planning on doing some studying and playing when I have free time this summer.

>>46020095
I think alphago just didn't evaluate the strength of the move successfully. Given the limited amount of time it has to evaluate moves, it has to prioritize plays that look good soon rather than moves that look good a long way down the line.

>>46020095

Mr. Sedol stepped way back from his normal flashy, combative style and played a conservative game. AlphaGo was still winning but made some mistakes, and Lee made some brilliant moves to capitalize.

>>46020142

>AlphaGo ends every game with shitloads of time left on the clock

I mean...
no?

>>46020128
I'm right there with you. I'm fucking terrible.

Lately I've been playing with my friend a few games a week. The best I've managed against him was something around 30 to 90.

Hassabis gave more information about why AlphaGo lost game 4 in a CNN interview. According to him, AlphaGo estimated the probability of Lee playing the move 78 where he did to be less than 1 in 10,000 (on a board with less than 200 possible moves left).

>>46020128
>>46020220
I've played 2 games in the past, hm, decade. And they were both within the last week. So if you ever need a confidence booster, user: borage, but not tonight.

>>46020142
>>46020169
I don't know much about Sedol and go overall, but how is his usual playstyle?

>>46020283
So, would it be better then to have someone with more gambit-like and out of the box against AlphaGo?

Also, is there any r34 yet?

2 1/2 hours till stream goes online for final match

So where we playing at? Do we have a server or not?
>tfw looking up local Go groups but afraid to go since I'm absolute shit

>>46020609

Don't worry about it.
The servers are flooded with other absolute shit players because of all the hype.

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Calling it now, on turn 152 AlphaGo plays a move that literally makes Lee's head explode. Aja Huang doesn't even blink as he swipes off Lee's grey matter from his glasses.

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Well?

>>46020958
a) she's a qt, b) I want that glass, c) Depends on the board, but I'd say no.

>>46020958
that's a dude

>>46020609
Good to know there are others like me. I'm going to push myself to jump in and try to play more.

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>>46020958
Would something like this work?

>>46021131
>look up local Go
>see these pictures
https://www.govb.de/news.php
Yeah nah, I'm good with playing online lmao

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>>46021083

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>>46020958

Sure can.

>>46021218

Thinking in the right direction. Just gotta count more liberties.

>>46020958
Who's to play?
>>46021498
If black is on play he wins the race here.

>>46021557

White to play.

>>46021498

Oh wait. Actually, that probably doesn't work.
White can totally escape though.

Anyone here up for a game?

>>46020437
Well, don't professionals gambit all day? With professionals knowing all the common sequences, ID imagine they throw around crazy moves

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>>46011565
>MFW you used my OP text.

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>>46020958

Pretty sure this works.
There are probably a number of variations.

does anyone else get really anxious when playing against random people

>>46022380
I never used to, but holy shit yes.

online-go thinks I'm provisionally 12 kyu, which was my peak rating back when I was more serious (14 years ago). I'm too scared to play someone actually ranked the same as me.

>>46022316
Why does black play 2 in response to 1? Is he worried about H6 getting surrounded?

>>46022316

Then again I could be wrong.
Hmmm. I think >>46021055 must be right and it depends on the board state.

>>46022530

It avoids atari of his H6 stone and removes a liberty from white's group.

I don't think my solution actually works though. Black can play F3 or something similar in response to white E4, which lets his three stones run away for long enough to kill white.

So I dunnolol.

>>46022380
oh god yes
it's crippling

T minus 30

15 min summary
>Match 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIQxOsRAXCo
>Match 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aMt7ulL6EI
>Match 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hROM_bxZ9E
>Match 4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5gJ-pVo1gs

Is there a Go dictionary?

They use all these Asian words to describe shit going down, but it all sounds like Marklar to me.

>>46023408

http://senseis.xmp.net/?GoTerms

You don't need to know all the terminology.
You don't even need to know much of it to get started. "ko" and "atari" are probably the most important.

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>that bumper music

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placeyobets


L S D F T W
S
D
F
T
W

Will humanity have hit chance higher than 20% against mechanical enemies?
Find out TONIGHT! TODAY!

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>>46023624

Wrong. All wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dskTEpaR_xI

Redmond my nigga that suit is hideous.

>>46023814
you couldnt be more wrong. first match suit and this one are the best (they may actually be the same suit i cant remember)

match 3 suit is a close second and match 4 suit had a terrible fit. way too big

>>46023814
He needs to unbutton it.

>>46023832
>>46023814

You're both right.
It's a good cut that doesn't suit his frame at all, and the color is all wrong for his skin tone.

>>46023861
no its a nice classy suit that not only fits him but is fitting for the classy event they are at

are you a nigger or something? your fashion sense is retarded

match 2 suit was maybe just as nice but a little too sexy for this sort of event

What accent is that?

>>46023928
some nordic shit?

>>46023928
Sounds like a French who spent time in Germany.

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>>46023814

>>46023902
>no its a nice classy suit that not only fits him but is fitting for the classy event they are at

It's really not.
I mean, it's a step up from what the others are wearing but...


>>46023928

Czech?

>>46023973
DADDY NO!

>>46023973
Mike needs a handicap, the bantz are off the charts

>Mike trying to get a word in.

>>46024004
They've started talking? All I'm getting is music.

>>46023975
Honestly why even wear a black suit jacket if you're going to wear a solid black non-button shirt?
Fucking Chris finding new ways to annoy me.
>>46024085
preshow literally just ended.

>>46015455
That's how my brain feels after watching about 100 moves.

AlphaGo to be awarded provisional 9-dan after this game.

https://twitter.com/mbcnews/status/709557327616024576

>>46024085

It's starting now

>already wrong

>>46024144
whaaaaaaaaat
that's cool as shit

>>46024144
How are professional dan ranks usually given out?

White resigns

>>46024144
Well considering Alphago is currently ranked 4th best in the world according to the WHR ranking system it would be rude not to.

>>46024178

Depends on the country I think

>>46024205
forgot link
http://www.goratings.org/
>>46024215
The professional Dan ranks are internationally accepted.

>>46024215
How does Korea usually give them out?

>>46024144
this is trashy

>>46024178

Don't remember all the details, but it's complicated and takes years. You aren't even eligible after a certain age, iirc.

>>46024250
I wonder if AlphaGo is the youngest professional in history.

Mike is so fucking tired of Chris's shit.

>>46024250
oh, I know how you get 1p
How do you get from there to 2-9p?

>>46024266

Expert systems aren't people, and so aren't qualified.

Michael has already had it with Chris's shit for today

Why does Michael have to trigger my OCD?

>>46024266
At two years? Probably.

>>46024274
>How do you get from there to 2-9p?

No idea.
You probably have to win a lot against the best players in the world and then have your games get peer-reviewed to decide what level you are at.


There's no question that AlphaGo is playing at that level, but it's silly to give it the credential. It's not a person.

Why is no-one in the /tg/ group chat to comment on the game?

>>46024342
then why are there asian 9-dans?
Checkmate atheists

I'm surprised, LSD has more time than AG, is this normal?

Did LSD play this quickly at the beginning of the previous games?

>>46024368
I don't know how.

>>46023928
Sounds like the hybrid accent that everyone in Google's Zurich office starts to pick up.

>>46024368
for me, I just don't like realtime chat much. I prefer a thread.

>>46024423
But isn't deepmind in London?

Those chairs look so uncomfortable.

>>46024394
Yeah, most games he's gotten ahead in the beginning. Humans think about their first moves and strategy a bit before a big game. AlphaGo is off during that time. It also seems to treat the first moves like every other move, taking time to build out trees, even though it's a little weird to do at the very start.

>>46024469
>my feet hurt
>i wish i was at home

>>46024469
Fuck fashionable chairs beanbags are the true patrician chairs.

Black Q9.
The moment when it all went wrong.
What a bad fucking idea.


Apparently AlphaGo thinks so too.

>>46024447
Yeah, but Zurich is the main European office. If they picked up internal transfers after being acquired by Google they'd probably be from there.

I'm just speculating though. Not going to snoop on people using the corporate intranet :-P.

>>46024527
what are you talking about?

Wait Mike has had to suffer Chris even off camera?

>>46024527
Black didn't play Q9?

>>46024542


Always a bad sign when the computer that has kicked the shit out of you in every fight tanukis in response to your invasion.

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AlphaGo made a glider!

>>46024556
>>46024542

S'cuse me. Q12.

>>46024575
FUGG :-DDDDDDDDDDD

>>46024575
Wait nevermind, not quite.

>>46024527
>>46024558
>>46024583
9 dan pro commentator don't look so alarmed

>>46024144
Is 9dan the highest rank in go world? Does it also have elo rating system like in chess?

>>46024621
yes and yes.

>>46024621
It is but there are dramatic skill differences between the 9 dan

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>>46019460

>>46024621
10p is the highest, and is an honorary title. 7d is the highest dan with 8d being a title.

>>46024621
Elo is pretty outdated and fancier systems are preferred, but I don't know what they prefer.

Build a ladder, Mike.

>>46024621
>>46024686
See >>46013255

>>46024686
What players have ever reached 10p?

Such a clear difference between the two. They both know nothing about the technology, but look how Mike's mind engages the concepts.

I think it's fairly easy by now to call 5-0 for Mike.

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>mike cant hide his joocy calves in his suit pants

>>46024761
Sai

>>46024775
what the hell is a neruron?

>>46024782
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJy37GtkcF4

chris shut up

>>46024805
well that didn't take long

>>46024793
oops
It was probably the tree search implementation's fault anyway.

>>46024841
were you waiting for it?

>>46024849
No, it was the second neural network that evaluates the board positions and who is winning. It was really badly estimating how well it was doing. This then affected other factors like the tree search and pruning.

I have a feeling Lee is going to get absolutely crushed by the end of this.

THICCNESS

>>46024969
Probably unless he manages another move that throws AlphaGo off.

LADDERS SON

Ladder! Ladder!

Chris knew the ladder was good for black, but just happened to say it after Mike said it

>>46024900
Any HNG edits from these games desu. Would work better with AlphaGo though since it's basically the same situation where someone else is putting down the stones for him

>>46024993
>>46024969
Lets just keep saying things that contribute absolutely nothing and are on everyone's mind anyway guys.

>>46025019
Does Jackie Chan play go?

Jesus christ, get back to the game goddamnit

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>those instant lee responses

machines dont deserve courtesy

>>46024774
They both don't understand the concept at all. In their whole analysis they keep talking about AlphaGo as if it was following a strategy, for example.

>>46024904
I think it was not the fault of the position evaluation neural network itself but the fault of the rollout component which is used for 50% of the position evaluation. That's mostly me being optimistic about this approach to AI though.

I love when Mike says "Let's get back to the game" then proceeds to make 20 moves that ignore the game.

>>46025074

His commentary is really especially awful tonight.

>>46025047

"So those are the variations, let's go back..."

"The game is over, AlphaGo won the game. Revealed it's terrible robot army, enslaved humanity, and ushered in a glorious new dawn, all hail AlphaGo"

"Oh. Well, let's go back and look at some more variations..."

"You have been spared only because your obliviousness amused AlphaGo"

>>46025074
>>46025047
>>46025101

>i hate it when commentators commentate and explain moves and their consequences

i dont think you belong in this thread. why are you even watching the stream?

>>46025074
>>46025101
I blame Chris.

>>46025065
Its kind of an easy and useful way to relate to what it is doing. Mike does understand how the program actually works if you listen to him comment specifically on the AI

>>46025101
He just sees too much. I'm sure it is very frustrating for him.

>>46025074
Jesus christ Chris, reign him in you bumbling hack.

>>46025065
How else do you analyze it?

>>46025145

Chris is not the dominant one in that relationship.

>>46025118

I hate it when commentators commentate and explain moves which are only tenuously relevant to the game at hand

>>46025172
mikes been predicting moves better tonight than any other game so far

Chris is in the tiger's mouth.

This commentary is a tutorial of go. It has nothing to do with the game at hand.

>>46025208
If you want something more hardcore, there's a stream with three 9P professionals commenting here:http://www.douyutv.com/533882

>>46025208
If it bothers you, there are other streams. Is the AGA one going yet? I think they've been starting after an hour

>>46025208
That's what happens when you make a world class player do dumbed down commentary with an amateur for a co-commentator.

>>46025208
As someone who came into this knowing almost nothing, I have enjoyed it a lot.

>>46025237
thx

>>46025238
AGA is an hour behind but you are right.

>>46025208
there is literally like not a single other white person on earth that would understand mikes actual commentary

this is meant for westerners to watch

chris is awful though

(. _.)

>>46025247

That's really good to hear.

People enjoying a streamed game is always really healthy for that game.

>>46025262
mhm. hmm. yep.

huh Lee is playing quite a bit faster today. At this point last game he was about 20 minutes behind.

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>>46025278

>>46025289
The nod of complete ignorance.

>>46025277
I bet I am the only one here who also watched Fischer Spassky live on PBS in 1972. It was quite similar with a game board and commentary from Grand Masters.

>>46025287

I would like to see how AlphaGo plays in overtime when it only has 1 minute per move

>>46025237
>http://www.douyutv.com/533882

Slight problem there chum


I have no idea what these niggers are saying

How's the game going at this point?

>>46025289
that's what i was wondering...

>>46025065
AlphaGo isn't playing a human strategy, with concepts like territory, but it has a strategy nonetheless. By valuing subtrees the neural nets have something akin to a plan of action.

Is Mike actually Jackie Chan?
He seems really attached to ladders.
>>46025320
Watch match 1 or 2. AlphaGo went to overtime in one of them.

>>46025338
Too soon to tell.

>>46025339
I see... yeah.

>>46025338
Mike is on point, Chris has finished roughly 34% of his sentences, I don't think any stones have been dropped yet, no scolds so far

>>46025338
There are many stones on the board, roughly half of them are black and the others are white. The human is placing the black ones.

>>46025368
no i saw a dropped stone

>>46025368
He's droppedd atleast one stone.

>>46025320
Worse, about 1000 elo worse, so just below professional level.

>>46025368
kek

>>46025289
>Hey! That's my move!
>Its not a good move

*air horn*

CENTIPEDE
E
N
T
I
P
E
D
E

AGA stream live

https://www.youtube.com/c/usgoweb/live

>>46025315
That was 14 years before I was born. I'm thirty.

>>46013469
thank you lee sedol

also
stream of the 5th game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzpW10DPHeQ

>>46025401
That was the sickest burn in this series

>>46025289
>>46025401
topkek

>>46025338

More or less in joseki in the top left. Black has a smaller territory, white has a slightly larger one and much better influence.

Bottom right, black has a large territory developing. White has a medium territory fighting it out with black between there and the top right, which is a small black area.

Bottom left has two white stones and is otherwise undeveloped, but is well supported to become exclusively white territory.

Is Michael Redmond good?

>>46025453
IT'S OVER LEE SEDOL IS FINISHED

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>>46025338

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>Tomb Stone Squeeze
>panting
>sounds like a Rock and Roll song

>>46025460
hes literally the only white person in existence that can actually play go

hes just under top 500 i think

>>46025460
http://www.goratings.org/
ctrl+f 'Redmond'

>>46025460
He's the only American 9 Dan, so yes.

>>46025329
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZPKR7HzM_s

AGA english stream

>>46025460
about 500th best in the world. But he is a professional commentator also and very good at analysis.

>>46025460
This might just be a rumor but I heard he once had three Korean hotties in bed at the same time and the legend goes that he had stamina for more.

>>46025460
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Go_players

MIKE DOES NOT APPROVE. BETAGO ON SUICIDE WATCH

"Black is gaining thickness."

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>>46025485
is this good or bad

>>46025485
>http://www.goratings.org/players/1718.html
WTF

>>46025515
He once lost to a 11 year old girl.

>>46025515
>>46025485
mmm something with that must be wrong. mike is heading for 600 or 700 wins

hes mentioned it a few time

>>46025515
The fact he appears on that list means he's among the best players in the world.

>>46025485
>Only one Japanese player in the top 70
Top kek

>>46025515

"America" written in Chinese literally means "Beautiful country"

Chinese confirmed tsundere for America

>>46025540
I've never lost to a 11 year old in anything! ANYTHING!

>>46025544
maybe he lies

>>46025460
He's the only non-Asian to get to 9p.

He's never won a title but I think he's maybe got to and lost two title games.

>>46025544
It only includes games that are archived in go4go.net

>>46025568
fucking chinks

>>46025560
i just assume that list is showing something different than total official professional games or something

maybe its only 9p games played in china?

>>46025485
He seems to play a lot of people with higher ELO than him, so there's that

So is Chris going to lose this 0-5? I feel sad for the guy but Mike is a beast

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>>46025557
I'm pretty sure there's plenty of countries the chinese think are beautiful compared to theirs

>>46025595
see
>>46025571

>>46025540

Because he is a good guy and didn't want to make the girl cry

>>46025515
Those are international tournaments only, remember the best go player in the world right now is 19 years old . Redmond's peak was in the early 90s. In competitive go terms he is ancient, in his 50s.

He has a 500 win, 331 loss record across his career, mostly playing in Japan.

It's closer to 580 / 360 in 2016.

>>46025515
You should understand that I don't think he left to do formal study in Japan until he was 14, unlike for instance Cho Chikun who iirc was 9 or 10 years old when he became a formal student.

>>46025491
Mike is too alpha even if Chris is insufferable

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>>46025627
>literally not a single westerner out of armature play

>>46025655
oh sorry i guess there is a single 1p player

>>46025655
No one even knows this game exists in the West. Go find stats about the best Chess players, you won't find any Japanese there

>>46025655
International means China/Korea/Taiwan.

Go is a game invented in China, but they ignored it for the past 300 years. It was a Japanese game (hence all the Japanese terms) up until recently. Go Seigen was Chinese but moved to Japan to play against the strongest players.

There are no western players besides Redmond who can play the game.

>>46025693
Chess is kinda lame, I wish it was the opposite

>>46025693
how does that make mike not good or unique? i understand completely that go is unknown in the west. its what makes mike a crazy insane exception

it must be a weird position to be in for him

>>46025712
Chess isn't even as good as Shogi, nevermind Go

>>46025703
Redmond is the only 9p but there are quite a few western pros.
the AGA has even certified a few

Given that Redmond is the only 9P Westerner, how good are you guys? Never played before, and I don't understand why there aren't any other good Go players.

Post-match Garlock Redmond match

>>46025712
>>46025735

That's like your opinion, mang.

Both games are now finished in terms of computability.

>>46025725
Oh I took your comment out of context, my bad

>>46025712
It's kinda funny, the board in Go is simpler (as in the pieces are easier to make) and the rules are more simple so it would be even better for widespread casual play but somehow it just hasn't gotten the attention in the West

>Mike preempting Chris' stupid questions
>its 1/10000

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>>46025655
No naive westerners shall escape this mortal coil! Right hand rule baby!

>>46025769
kek sorry my bad

>>46025759
>finished

Neither one is trivially solved. Stop being a stupid e-baka

>>46025760
I don't think that Chess would catch on in the west if it wasn't already traditional.

>>46025740
Mike said it himself earlier, you have to start this shit young or you'll never catch up. And the West doesn't have a critical mass of players to encourage that.

>>46025557
Using their usual localization scheme, the other choice was "moon country."

>>46025760
well several thousand kilometers and an intelligentsia that has a history of Chess is a pretty good reason.

>>46025740
Because one's skill in go is very determined by skill of those they're playing against so those highly skilled Westerner are usually those who studied Go in East Asia

>>46025784
finished for humans mang. The progress in the game will come through machines playing it.

>>46025806
kek

>>46025765
>1/10000 in chance that Chris is gonna talk about this shit move right here
So w-w-would Lee.. umm maybe try something liiike do something heeeere?

>>46025794
I know Mike started when he was 14. How come that is sooo late? Is it because kids learn faster, and go is just that hard? Or is it because Go is so big that you need to start young?

>alphago catching fire again

>>46025485
>Country: Japan

>>46025822

East Asian Go professionals usually start learning Go when they're 5-6 years old and play 12+ hours a day every day for the rest of their lives

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>>46025485
some of these female players are qt

>>46025822
Young people are sharper.

keep in mine that 9p is the highest so it can make things sort of weird since players who play stronger than 9p (like lee) sit around playing weaker players a lot and beating them

>>46025740
The best /tg/ player is 12 kyu. Rest are 20 to 25.

Theoretically our best player would have an even match against Redmond with a 25 stone handicap. Handicaps only go up to 9, and a 4-stone handicap is already pretty silly.

>>46025834
Just look at his eyes bro

>>46025822

It's like fluency in a language. You're learning to read a board intuitively. In both cases the younger you are when you learn it the better in terms of your intuitive mastery of the skill.

>>46025819
Games are played for the benefit of people and there is no lack of complexity there.

>>46025844
>female
bruh...

>>46025834
He's affiliated with the Nihon Ki-in

>>46025822
Why you want to be a professional? A decade of experience will easily make you a 5 dan amateur
JUST LIKE CHRIS

>>46025834
he lives in nipland and is a commentator for nip tv and plays for the nip league

>>46025859
Wow the gulf in skill is amazing.

>after the commentary, Chris poses online as 25kyu to let out his frustration by destroying people new to the game

>>46025871
Or mathematics.

>>46025893
But 5dan in American is how many dan in e.g. Japan?

>>46025740
You need to start playing at 5 years of age and get professional training to get 'good' at the game. Even then, just like chess, you might lack the talent and ability to be a really strong professional.

In Go the game is less solved than Chess, so that means at the high professional level there is a much bigger difference in ability between players, because we just don't know what makes a good move.

Chess:
><1600 beginner
><1800 1 year
><2100 4 years
><2500 10 years (Grandmaster, professional)
>2650+ top 100
>2700+ top 50
>2770+ top 10
>2800+ top 5
>2850+ Best human in the world

Go:
>20k-30k kyu beginner
>19k-10k 1 year
>9k-1k 4 years
>1d-7d 10 years (advanced amateur)
>1p-9p (professional player)
>9p 2700 top 800
>9p 3000 top 400
>9p 3300 top 100
>9p 3500 top 10
>9p 3621+ Best human in the world


Much wider skill gap in the top players, and westerners don't learn the game when they are young, like they do in Chess. All of the top 100 chess players started playing at 5 or 6 years old. Most hit 2500 ELO around 13-16 years of age.

It has a name that even you would recognize, Chris.

B U R N
U
R
N

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>>46025929

5dan professional American = 2dan Japanese amateur = 5kyu Chinese amateur = 25 kyu Korean amateur, or thereabouts.

I'm not actually exaggerating by much.

>>46025893
This is an important remark I think. Aiming at "professional" is not for everyone and many who would enjoy the game would end up hating it, studying variations and openings and sequences. It's a certain kind of activity but it's not necessarily "fun," unless you enjoy that. (I happen to, somewhat, but not everyone does or should.)

>>46025955
mmhmm

>>46025929
there are no 5 dan professional western players that im aware of

there are two kinds of dans
amateur and professional, which is where the actual good players are. amateurs are jokes. chris is a 3dan amateur player

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so the way to beat betago is to play it like its a retarded chump player?

Whew. Just won a speed game by 5.5. Lots of dumb mistakes, but the guy was listed as 5k. So I guess I'm not as rusty as I thought.

1 minute main time, 5 x 10 seconds byo-yomi. I never played enough games to get decent experience.

>>46025955

"Chris you ignorant slut"

>>46025936
Why is it so hard to reach mastery in go? I've never seen this scale in chess or mahjong or even shogi.

>>46025996
What? No. The only reason the game is even close is because Lee is literally among the top 5 players.

>>46025996
Not at all. Lee played a very good, but unexpected move to send AlphaGo into a tizzy. Retarded chump moves would be crushed.

>>46026036
mike has been explaining for like 20 min how betago seems to get stumped on what any pro would be able to see and react to

>>46026020
less constraints, more game states

>>46026049
>>46026036
see >>46026052

are you not watching the stream?

>>46026052
It is because it just cannot deal with highly branching attacks. It dealt with it fine in games 1 and 3, but Lee's moves were very rare in game 4 and 5.

>>46026020
Lots of variety in positions. That means lots of chances to make new mistakes, and to miss clever moves.

Learning to see all of them can take a while.

WILD HAYLEE SPOTTED

>>46025915
In terms of ~9 stone handicaps (the biggest handicap that even makes sense), here's some tiers:

30 kyu - true beginner
21 kyu - most of /tg/'s decent players
12 kyu - /tg/'s best player
4 kyu - a very good amateur
4 amateur dan - slightly better than Chris
9 pro dan - Michael Redmond

>>46026020
There's just more flexibility in what you can do. Those other games have more rules, Go has like 1 or 2 rules, all the pieces are worth the same, the board is bigger.

RANDOM COREAN QT ALERT

haylee's on!

>>46026094
with an incomprehensible accent!

>>46026049
What Kim Myungwan was saying is that AlphaGo has a bad attacking game and the way to beat it is to get it to make an all-in attack it will screw up.

>>46026115
it's fine since chris asks incomprehensible questions

>>46026129
It all balances out.

>>46026139
mmhmm

>>46026115
Her accent is alright compared to most korean or japanese I've met

Also
>really, you play go!?
kek

>>46026119
Well, that isn't a "retarded chump" play, like something to throw off the programming. I just meant that you can't "trick" the programming. You have to have a strategy.

>chris gets thanked and mike gets ignored

expect the bantz to go into overdrive lads

>mike reminds the world that japan and china had a war

how long until he is forced to commit sudoku?

>>46026225
chris is at least 7dan with women

>>46026246
inb4 mod bans somebody for saying "kyute"

>>46026020
Bigger, vaguer, harder to evaluate, and more context sensitive.

Imagine Chess on a 16x16 board. Your piece lines are twice as long, and you have another two lines of pieces behind your normal two. That's about how big Go is.

Also imagine the winner is the first to checkmate two of your opponent's three kings. So it's harder to tell who's winning. Probably not as hard as it is in Go, where the game gets harder to evaluate who's winning the better the players are, in a way I can't port to this thought experiment.

Also imagine that several of the new pieces we had to add to fill out this huge board have movement rules like "can move like any friendly piece it's threatened by" to make positioning even more context-sensitive.

(Also imagine that Go doesn't suck. Because although Chess is a great game, this Chess-monstrosity I've just described is not.)

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Stay strong AlphaGo-chan!

anyone else amazed how bad this commentary is

They should have gotten a real host who knew how to guide it and had some time with this expert to keep him on the present

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>>46026243

>>46026094
>random
>not watching Haylee's channel
bless yourself: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTji1kQNoWIH85dB_Vxka9g/videos

>>46026338
thats professionalweeb.jpg you white piggu

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>>46026332

We need ... a hero ...

>>46026332
It has been terrible from the start.

They should have had an AI expert and a go player as the commentator set. Then we would have understood some of the details of AI programming they used for AlphaGo as well as getting some Go analysis.

>>46026372
no i knew about it but why would i watch some chump 3p player when i can be basking in mikes light?

>>46026020
there's literally more moves on a Go board than there are atoms in the universe (though, I thinks it's safe to assume a lot of those board positions wouldn't be played in a sensible game)

>>46026374
That guy is awful. When there's more than one baseball game on TV I never watch the one he's commentating.