Pathfinder General /pfg/

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First for hilarity

>>45277615
Some of those aren't good image choices. Even martials can UMD up a Wand of Infernal Healing.

>>45277627
that falls into "martials can use skills".

>>45277615
I can't read the image selected for PoW.

>>45277627
It's Moneybags with his pockets turned out, indicating that following this response will leave the Martials penniless, which in itself is another symptom of the disparity: Martials need to keep buying magical weapons and armor to stay competitive, and Casters can just spend that money on wondrous items or crafting oodles of scrolls. This kills the top center argument as well.

>>45277692

It's just a "whooosh" on the vapor trail as DSP quite literally misses The Point

>>45277667
>martials can use skills

Aren't clerics kind of ass at using skills?

At least Unchained rogues get tons of skill points.

Hey all. quick question. Is there a writeup anywhere for a spheres of power witch archetype build? or any of the newer casters that have been released? also any advice on SoP would be helpful. Starting a game with PoW martials and SoP casters so any advice would be handy

>>45277740
Regular Rogue gets tons of skill points as well. The image selected however shows a Wizard gets 2 + Int skill points per level, and Int is the Wizard's main (really only) Ability Score. Fighters also get 2 + Int, and Int is one of the Fighter's two primarily available dump stats. You're not going to make a fighter with as much Int as a wizard, just to get skill points.

>>45277760
Spheres of Power fell out of favor on /pfg/ ever since Touhoufag.

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Nth for Homebrew!

>>45277740
They don't need skill point themselves because they can casts Evolve Summon Monster and Planar Ally.

>>45277794
Plus skills are a poor substitute for magical fuckery anyway.

and don't forget how a familiar helps immensely with skill-shit, and you can get those niggas on the cheap.

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>>45277813

>>45277760
SoP has an advanced players guide book; it might be in there.
>Advice
Focus on one or two trees. Destruction is a good 1 point dip. Conjuration is good. Creation is kinda point heavy.

>>45277836
>Conjuration is good

It's the damn best sphere, completely broken with many ways to break it.

>>45277874
Which is why I won't use SoP for awhile.

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So what are the new class and archetypes introduced here? Is it worth even getting? Pic related

>>45277916
Daily reminder that Adam Meyers says that anecdotal evidence is the only evidence that matters for designing Pathfinder mechanics.

Show me your Bardadins, /pfg/. Even if they are lewd.

>>45277814
Ok. Homebrew class: Speedster. Does what the name implies.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Tstgmq5PD-vnve78tu6WnhgIlx6yzh-MSSTDCsSvYMg/edit?usp=sharing

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>>45277981

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Is Fey marriage legal in Golarion? Which realms oppose or support it?

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Is it just me or does Moloch look a bit... pudgy?

>>45277918
I haven't heard anything good about Frog God Games.

>>45278146
Ever heard of muscle gut?

>>45277615
>Take away their spellbook
Seriously? If a DM pulled that shit the players should collectively walk from the table.

>>45278146
We'll get more definitive art to clarify that in Hell's Vengeance.

>>45278138

Marriage? Huldra maybe, they're historically known to marry human men, but the rest is a lot more nebulous.

I can see Kitsune marrying humans, but everything for Nymphs or Dryads being a case of "we're fuckbuddies/partners."

>>45278169
They're going to fuck him up, aren't they?
I have this mental image of a bro-devil
>Rewards skilled people
>Accepts any into his rank
>Most likely to accept mundane mortal requests, including rain for crops etc
His pudgyness kinda makes me think of that even more.

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>>45277814
Did someone say HOMEBREW?

>tfw love homebrewing
>tfw nobody gives a shit about it

>>45278214
Schneider is doing the write-up.

>>45278339

He also said he's making the AP to make you "question" just how evil you're being, and it would be very worrying if someone took it all in stride.

>>45278363
Bets on it being really, really ham handed?

>>45278339
Schneider's AMA he did a while back does not inspire confidence in his ability to write an evil campaign. He seemed pretty gleeful about writing up situations that would "punish" players for playing evil characters. Hardly seems fair to do that when the whole point of the AP is to be evil, as advertized by the AP itself.

>>45278274
Well, what do you homebrew? I'm always up for a sot of reviewing.
Please don't say races, I'm getting tired of races.

>>45278378
Oh he better not

>>45278391
I still wanna see how'd they do evil though. Way of the Wicked felt a bit cartoony at parts.

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>>45278274
What up fellow homeybrewer?
At least my players like it. (Or at least don't tell me they hate it to my face)

>>45278434

He described some scenarios that included, but are not limited to;

>Killing a dog that was defending his master
>Beating an old couple for (unknown reason)
>Hanging or threatening to hang a priestess's son for information/treachery

And before anyone says this is all low-key shit, recognize it's still Book 1, and Book 4 has you destroying the Halfling Underground Railroad.

>>45278363
>>45278391
>>45278474
>"Morality is objective in Golarion" - Paizo 2008-14
>"Morality is now subjective in Golarion" - Paizo 2015-??

What they didn't tell us that subjectivity is only for Chaotic Good.

>>45278391
Being evil and doing evil things isn't supposed to be enjoyable. You should feel like shit if you kill a doge trying to protect his master unless you enjoy that stuff that is.

What's the good version of the 'Book of the Damned' series?

>>45278448
Not gonna lie, every time you do a homebrew thing, it shakes my decision to play a full caster a little more. But THE BUFFS MUST FLOW.

So has anybody ever actually seen the Open/Close cantrip in use? It seems like the most unnecessary spell in the world to me.

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>>45278530
>Being evil and doing evil things isn't supposed to be enjoyable. You should feel like shit if you kill a doge trying to protect his master unless you enjoy that stuff that is.

I'm out.

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>>45278530
>>45278474
>>45278391
>>45278363
>implying I'm not playing Lawful Neutral
>implying the LAW won't rule rather than Chaotic Dickbag

>>45278530
I think it's wrong to punish players for doing what you told them to do. Hell's Vengeance is billed as an evil campaign, so punishing players for buying into that expectation is unfair. Paizo told them what to expect and is apparently planning to yank the rug out from under players.

I'm withholding final judgement until the AP actually comes out, but I found that particular comment pretty jarring and fairly dickish.

>>45278571
>>45278574

>Implying it isn't Lawful Evil to hang a child in front of his mother for aiding a rebellion.

>>45278590
>Implying Lawful Evil isn't just Chaotic Good until it agrees with your political sensibilities

>>45278577

They're not punishing you, Schneider never suggested that.

He's saying someone who gleefully smashes in the face of someone's grandpa because he's hiding a rebel leader in the cellar is someone you should keep an eye on. They're presenting evil for what it is.

>>45278590
It would probably be more NE than LE, depending on the person. Or CE. If the mother was aiding the rebellion, then yeah, she'll get hanged either way. But whether the child is actually hanged will probably depend on the temperament. LE would to my mind probably not bother with hanging the child, especially if they agreed that the child would live. NE or CE are much more likely to go and hang the kid anyway.

>>45278629
>Meanwhile It's tots CG to slaughter a entire town of cultists because they do something which you disagree with

>>45278660
That depends on what the cultists were doing. If they were being evil and fucking shit up then sure why not.

>>45277981
how exactly does one play a bardadin?

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DSP Lore guys -- Do outsiders know martial traditions? Are there any mortal traditions out there?

>>45278629
That was not the impression I got from his response. His actual quote was:

>In Hell’s Vengeance I wrote an adventure where there’s a boss fight with a puppy—so, enjoy that villain.

Which strikes me as very much a "take that" against people expecting to play Evil characters. It seems duplicitous to me to try and punish people for playing the game you told them to expect.

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>>45277814
>>45278274
>>45278433
What's the best homebrew you've come across?

>>45278660
Cultists are like fish; they don't have any feelings.

On a scale from one to 3e/4e edition wars, how much butthurt would be generated in a campaign that required you to play at least a half-caster, if said campaign was fluffed like Earthdawn? If it was fluffed like Nanoha?

>>45278699
Wear as little clothing as possible... for your goddess

>>45278705
>It seems duplicitous to me to try and punish people for playing the game you told them to expect

I'm like 80% sure most people who signed on for an evil campaign expected it to involve paladin slaying, merchant beatings and settlement corruption.

Not the little evils like killing a dog or assaulting some old people. His response seemed less "fuck you for being evil" and more "what the fuck did you expect?"

>>45278701
> Ask the people with no setting a setting question
> Expect this to end well

I mean, this can be the future you choose if you really want it to be but ultimately I'd be talking out of my ass with vague ideas of how I'd handle things that may or may not have even the slightest relevance to your setting or game.

Also, define 'mortal traditions'.

>>45278734
Would it be gestalt or no?

Either way, I love me some Nanoha.

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>>45278743
I mostly meant build wise. Since I intend on playing a Lawful Good Bard in an upcoming campaign.

>>45278433
I haven't been doing much, but I spent some time trying to make a few Alchemist discoveries specifically for the Promethean Alchemis. I'd have to go collect them into a pastebin to show them off, though. Most of them are exceptionally shitty and need extensive reworking. I want to really make use of the telepathic link somehow though, because that dynamic is cool.

also a discovery tree that has a branch give the homunculus the valet Familiar's crafting aid ability

>>45278691
>That depends on what the cultists were doing. If they were being evil and fucking shit up then sure why not.
Regressive leftism summed right up.

>>45278566
My players would use it to open doors from a distance in case the doors had booby traps on them.

>>45278577
Yeah, same here. I didn't really expect that sort of attitude from Schneider. I'm still interested in the AP, but now I sort of have the back of my head the notion that if it turns out to be bad the people who objected to having an evil AP in the first place will probably feel vindicated. "See!? This was a dumb idea. You should feel bad for having wanted to play it anyway."

>>45278629
Making you feel bad for doing evil things isn't something they can really write into the AP effectively, that's mostly on the DM. They can put evil acts in the AP, which if it's suppose to be an evil campaign they damn well should. They can also put people who will judge you for those evil acts in the AP, like the master of the dog you kick or the father of the man you executed. Having that person cry over how unfair or awful what you did was will maybe make players feel bad, but it's going to be the DM that has control over that. Ultimately, it's going to be the DM, not the writer, that sets the tone for whether or not the PCs are going to feel regret for their actions on a level beyond retaliation.

I guess the thing with Wes Schneider is that what he was saying just left a bad taste in my mouth, like I'm not sure I like the way he's approaching the design of the AP. It gives me the feeling that it's more "Lawful AP where you also have to be evil, and you'll hate that part" than "Evil AP where you get to revel in the glory of Cheliax". I'm going to with-hold judgement on the AP until I actually see it though, of course.

>>45278725
There was a skill use pdf a while back that I liked and forgot to save.
>>45278748
Not known/usable by outsiders like devils/angels/cthulu. Either Outsider(Native) or truly native.

>>45278448
WIP? It's pretty barebones...
I kinda like linger, but each time you use a lingering maneuver resetting the timer on the other seems like it would escalate way too much. I would change for having only one Lingering effect at a time. Two with the style feat.
Breath of the Dragon should come in way earlier. At 8th level it should be a Breath of Tiamat that deals all four elemental damages.
Also a counter that you can only use upon dying is kinda shit, I would bump it down to 8th and up the Breath of the Dragon to 9th. Dragons Breath is THE iconic ability of dragons, the apex of the martial arts should be a specially powerful dragons breath.

>>45278791
So what are you trying to argue for exactly that its evil to wipe out some cultists or what?

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>>45278705
>>45278744
It's the same problem as people who start an AP at first level and try to write backstories where they killed a hundred people and are wanted for crimes against humanity. Some people don't get that roleplaying doesn't mean you can just instantly leap to the endgame supervillain stage. You have to start with the petty shit, just like the heroes start with rats in cellars.

If you've ever played Way of the Wicked, you probably met some of those people. In fact, fuck it, STORYTIME: what's the worst over-the-top backstory you've seen a player bring to a game, anons?

>>45278725
I'm not >>45277814, >>45278274, or >>45278433, but the best homebrew I've seen is this beguiler conversion:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6bKY5cuGjh9VFA1OF8xVmtqWjA/edit

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>>45278874
But...

What if it was the backstory for /my/ character?

>>45278577
I always liked the Way of the Wicked way of describing how an evil campaign should go.
People want to play Villains, they don't want to play dick bags.
Showing Darth Vadar bringing in the torture robot to use on Leia is intimidating and makes for an awesome villain.
If we'd been treated to a 20 minute users guide on using rape as an interrogation technique seminar by him that ended with her weeping in a pile of imperial jizm that wouldn't have been fun at all.

Showing him choking a bitch that sassed him like it ain't no thang is awesome.
Showing him viscerally choking a child to death in front of its parents with utter realism is unpleasant.

>>45278734
I don't have a lot of experience with Earthdawn; only tried it once, shortly, years and years ago. But Nanoha is great.

Not sure that PF is the best system to use, if only because there are so many (lower-tier) choices that aren't casters at all. The butthurt would probably be...low to middling. 4 at best. Or is that worst?

>>45278748
An atheist tradition for not!Rhaoumi with various healing techniques would be pretty sweet now that someone else has mentioned it.
Going full Anime A TECHNIQUE THAT CAN SURPASS THE DIGNITY OF GODS, HURR would be very entertaining.

>>45278874
>STORYTIME: what's the worst over-the-top backstory you've seen a player bring to a game, anons?
An all powerful lich had a raise dead spell reflected back at him and he was resurrected as a lowly level 1 wizard.

>>45278818
Gareth, cover your eyes.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/16vt9TkPOvik0bAzEVP2O8rtl93GLZ_nhsKjGmtsIYKY/edit
A concept I had a while back, although it's on the backburner as I chew through some other stuff.(Alternate casting system to replace SoP)

The jist of it is that it's a Dual Discipline, which are 'mini-disciplines'; combinations of two disciplines that you gain access to if you have the two parent disciplines (PR is Primal Fury/Elemental Flux). Thus, they only have 9 maneuvers and a stance, as well as a supporting feat and a style feat.

Prismatic Roar is a discipline meant to mesh well with Eflux and Pfury by granting natural attacks similar to those that'd a dragon get.

I considered Breath of the Dragon as a 9th level, but ultimately I felt that 'I have a fucking death curse like mother-fucking Fafnheir' was warranted in the 9th level slot.

[Linger] is just the unique mechanic for this mini-discipline, and honestly, it turned out kinda nice -- You have the option of readying every maneuver to gain the natural attacks you want, or just stick to the more powerful ones. The more you invest into it, the more you get out of it.

It needs a numbers passover, though, as well as some editing, but it's ready to be looked at!
Be gentle

>>45278725
The Battlecaster and Blood Scion classes by Ethereal Gears on the GitP and Paizo forums.

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>>45278914
So you're saying there's a difference between villains and supervillains? I wonder what that could be...

>>45278914
>If we'd been treated to a 20 minute users guide on using rape as an interrogation technique seminar by him that ended with her weeping in a pile of imperial jizm that wouldn't have been fun at all.
Speak for yourself.

>>45278874
Way of the Wicked expects, no, demands that you be the baddest fuckers in the land.
Its there in the god damn players guide, you're being sent to an inescapable prison because you are, no exceptions, a bunch of evil cunts that deserve all you're going to get.
You're slavers who ran the ship.
You're murderers and traitors to the crown.
You're god damn scum and you god damn love it.

Even at 1st level you're not some edgy faggot kid that drew a dick on a statue of Mitra or some faggot bollocks like that, you did some dark shit to get yourself condemned to death.
And you break out of god damn Alcatraz for Satan.

That's how a villain game should be intro'd. The same way you'd see a villain break out of jail in an epic fantasy movie in a cut away, after someone on the heroes side has said 'No chance they can escape, their prison is perfectly secure, no one has ever escaped!'

>>45278992
>Pic related
My most favorite moment from that whole fantastic movie.

>>45278914
Being evil isn't supposed to be appealing though and anyways you can just play whatever character you want to circumvent any of that in the first place. Alignment doesn't have to be so restrictive unless your GM is gay.

>>45279038
>Being evil isn't supposed to be appealing though

Since when? If evil didn't have appeal, people wouldn't be evil.

>>45278725
>>45278886
I'll throw in another vote for ertw's beguiler.

>>45278865
It's their culture, don't be a racist.

Does anyone have epubs/mobi/pdfs of Beyond the Pool of Stars, Bloodbound or Pirate's Prophecy?
I've looked at all my usual sites but they don't seem to have been shared yet.

>>45279038
>Being evil isn't supposed to be appealing though
Bollocks.
Evil is cool as fuck if you're allowed to play it right.
Evil has style.
Evil has all the good toys.
Evil has god damn epic mounts like Half-Demon Black Dragons.
Evil has a massive dick and its about to NTR your waifu because god damnit that's how evil rolls.

Evil can be fun. In fact, Way of the Wicked proves that.
If they're going to go into this thought with the mentality of 'We must punish anyone that wants to play this AP' then what the fuck is the point in writing it in the first place, you assholes.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilIsCool

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>>45279038
Why shouldn't evil be appealing in an evil game? Why would you play any AP that wasn't meant to be appealing?

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>>45279028
Thing is, those are all fine. Running a slave ship, committing treason or desecration of shrines, and even murder in the general sense; none of those require huge amounts of prowess or skill, just motivation.

I'm talking about the kids who show up with a first-level fighter and say "I'm in prison because I assassinated the prince." No, you fucking didn't, because you're a first-level character who can't take more than a few punches before you're out cold. Crime is easy, but huge cinematic crimes are difficult, and it's the latter that idiots try to write into their backstory without any idea of how impossible it'd be for their character to even conceive of such things.

>>45279038
Fuck off Paizo.

>>45278756
Two or three drop Paladin, then take Bard on til morning. Charisma and Dexterity are your money stats. Use a bow and take a Bardic Performance style that doesn't require your hands.

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>>45279038
>Not going evil for your waifu

>>45279141
Yeah, this.
Only thing you have to be careful about is PvP. And any group with brains will avoid that anyway.

>>45278949
I have less than no interest in this.

>>45278799
Eh? There's not really any that necessarily bar membership based on your species, with a few obvious exceptions (see: Black Thorns), but there's quite a few that are almost wholly mortal concerns. Folks like the Lens Makers or Crashing Tempest Academy, while likely to take on an outsider if /asked/, are so wholly wrapped up in mortal concerns that it's likely never happened.

Why?

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>>45279167
As someone who is playing Way o' the Wicked with pic related as their background?
A 1st level fighter could assassinate a Prince. Talingrade is a LG society and before the game starts they're not exactly big on the whole security thing, since 99.98% of people are decent sorts.

And just because they're a prince doesn't mean they're high level.
Hell, maybe they were part of a group that did it.
Or it was a duel.
Or they used a Ballistae.
Or got him drunk at a party and then stabbed him like a murder hobo.
Or poison.
Or the Prince was 8, or even younger.
Or a million other ways that such a thing could be done in what is a very permissive society that assumes the best about people until they give a reason to assume otherwise.

Don't be such a faggot, is what I'm saying.

>>45279275
Not that guy but I'd kind of like to see a fae weirdness type style. More than that, though, fae book when?

>>45279028

Doesn't Hell's Vengeance start the same way?

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>>45279288
>CE demon-worshipper in a WotW game
>"muh bard seductive skills so great gonna get to the princess of the entire kingdom pls ignore my +5 Diplomacy check"

Congrats, you're the reason most GMs are afraid to run that AP.

>>45279288
>Don't be such a faggot, is what I'm saying.

Anon, the other problem with killing the prince is... Well, how do you really top that? People that try to be "all that" at the start never *ever* develop into anything more meaningful. They killed the prince, their backstory was amazing, and now there's nowhere else to go.

They're the greyhound that caught the rabbit.

>>45279141
>dr doom
>evil
tvtropes a shit

>>45279275
Just curious. I'd figure evil outsiders use black seraph and good outsiders use silver crane; so I was wondering if there was something mortal races had a preference towards.

>>45278750
Probably something like a less bad Variant Multiclassing or just straight "Shut up, you're all magic now".

>>45278932
The point would be that you weren't playing non-casters, by reason of Linker Core/Fate weaving/snek pussy/whatever.

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>>45278659
Proper LE takes the child and has it raised by the state, indoctrinating it into the state's ideals, and making it a future soldier against the poison its mother was spreading.

>>45279300
Oh, that is on my list.
Tell me anon-kun, wat kinds of fae weirdness would you like to see in a discipline? Stances that have a Seelie effect and an Unseelie effect? Maneuvers based on any particular fae (and/or magical beasts)?

>>45278907
Post it and let us bully you. Or explain why you chose the stuff you did, that usually works too.

>>45279451
Now that's the sort of cutie I'd switch to evil for. Bet she's flexible, too.

>>45279340
>Asked the GM if I could switch her to being one of the Whore Queens of Hell
>Actually had a pretty decent +12 at 1st since I focused entirely on Charm (Complete with some boosting spells) and GM was considering Mythic in which case I'd have gone for the Auto +20 Cha
>Character in fact failed at what you're mocking for
>Passed the entire thing by the GM first and he was totally down with it because it fits the tone of the AP
And you're the reason most players don't have fun. You. Personally.
No one at your table has fun because of you. Because you're a sneering cunt that only gets joy in tearing things down based on the shallowest of glances instead of.
You know. Actually fucking reading things through to the end.

>>45279355
Well in the AP you (Spoilers) bring down the northern wall and let the Bugbears rape their way across the land summon a Daemonic Prince/Harbinger and get his personal brand of super AIDS off him and unleash it on the people of the land and I know for a fact one of the later books as you go full retard and burn down the Holy Land, complete with killing angels atop the not!Vatican
So compared to the shit that happens in the AP, killing the second born heir or some shit in a bar fight ain't shit.

>>45278705
It could also be an attempt to fix the general idea presented thus far that characters with an Evil alignment are full-stop pieces of shit with 0 redeeming qualities. Because that's what it's been so far almost constantly. If they're bad guys there is nothing good or respectable about them, they're just dumb retards who only know how to make Evil. Hell's Vengeance will hopefully present options for playing better Evil. More nuanced and deep villains.

>>45279033
Your opinion is factually accurate. That IS the best moment from that whole fantastic movie.

>>45279340

Except Asmodean doesn't really do CE. My group (player) is at level 17, and we've been having a lot of fun with it. No one does the chaotic random bullshit, and my character is LN. It's a good time as long as you don't have That Guy.

>>45279415
...Anon, those are Disciplines, not Traditions.

Discs are the fighting styles. Trads are the societies.

>>45279462
It was a 3.PF game in a setting where some of the crazier TO builds had come true, only to get face-smashed by the universe (for instance, the Omniscificer happened and then exploded, leaving shards of their Prophecy all over the place).

My character was the Mirror of Opposition clone of the possessed ice assassin aleax of an archmage who was going so full-optimization that the gods deified her to keep her out of the mortal plane and thus ironically weaken her. Something went wrong during this entire storm of fuckery, because the girl I played came out of that mirror a harbinger instead of a wizard and with a bad, bad case of having other people's memories.

The campaign eventually died, but she was questing to do what mirrors of opposition do: kill the original.

>>45279557
Ditto. Like I said here >>45279506
The GM let me switch her across to being a Whore Queen (Harlot Queen?) of Hell, rather than CE Demon Princess.
A Devil of Heresy, Suicide and Being an Asshole makes as much sense as a demon of the same.

>>45278956
That actually sounds HILARIOUS if played right. Like, he's trying to explain all this magic stuff he did and why he's best suited to deal with this problem and that, but all he can do is cantrip and everyone treats him like he's a senile old man.

>I was so powerful I ushered my own soul from its body to achieve immortality! I commanded the very power of the gods!
>Yes, yes, that's nice Moltride, now use your magic and clean my armor.

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So I have a backstory idea...
>Be generic soldier
>Die. Almost.
>Rather than going to Boneyard, instaed brought to a small plane that you can see both ends of
>Goddess there, told you that you've been stolen away from the normal cycle in hopes that you could become her champion
>Tells you straight up that you were chosen because you were insignificant enough to be looked over when you went missing
>Tells you that she's virtually powerless, and that she's placing all of this burden onto your shoulders.

But I can't even figure out why one wouldn't just tell her to fuck off. Throw me a bone, /pfg/

>>45279094
They chose their culture, it's not like they were born into it. Because their CULTure sacrifices babies.

>>45279671
Who's the goddess?

What can they offer?

What happens if this works?

What do you get?

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>>45278799
This? Or something else?

>>45278448
I'm working on a WIP discipline designed for natural attackers that will be applied via a template. Basically an easy way to say "that awakened lion is a trained warrior!" or giving a dragon a few tricks up his sleeve.

Its going to have more counters than the average discipline and some stances that allow actions to be taken off turn to help "boss monsters" cope with action economy woes. Though i might put some of that action economy fuckery onto the template itself so players who want to learn the discipline don't get super broken ass shit.

>>45279141
>>45279227

But they're not punishing you, silly gooses, they're proving just how monstrous you have to be at the start before things mellow out into sanitized Supervillain.

Every villain has to start somewhere, and that somewhere usually involves caving in some baby's head or carving up a happy family.

>>45279671
Make it so the goddess is so far gone that she will accept anything the character ends up being famous for is her new domain.

>>45279459

Congrats, I just spent like ten minutes trying to figure out how a fae discipline would work without throwing up my hands and going WE EXALTED NOW/WE LEGEND OF THE WULIN NOW.

I guess it'd mostly be themed around fae-contract type bindings and blessings, but, again, see above. Doing a fae creature-derived one would work better, but it seems like it'd be more for humans mimicking fae than an actual fae discipline (not that that's a problem at all, it's just not what I was thinking of when I first mentioned it).

>>45279691
Some literally nameless, no worshipper goddess.
The offer, of course, is being her right hand man.
If it works, she becomes more powerful.
Probably her eternal gratitude and ire of other gods as you go about stealing their worshippers.

>>45279783
This might be an interesting idea.

>>45278874
I had a level 1 character once who DID have a backstory of killing at least like 30 elves. Not people though so he wasn't really wanted and he was more of a serial killer than an assassin, he was the bastard child of the nobility and there was no evidence that pointed towards him, only testimony from elves so he got away with all of it.

It was my justification for how he learned to be a ranger, he would track his victims, build up trust with their guard animals, then stab the shit out of his victim and sneak off into the night. I really don't think killing a bunch of level 1 commoner nonhumans who can't defend themselves is something you need to be high level to do.

>>45279501
Well of course, she's a monk.

>>45279783

The sound she'll make rattling her cage will serve as a warning to the electronic old men.

>>45279605
Neat. How edgy was she?

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Can someone provide the Iron Gods adventure path for Pathfinder as PDF?

>>45279227
The answer to PVP is simple. Allow it and have fun or remind people that friendship is not a good concept. There is nothing good about the man who murders a whole village to be with the one he loves, there is nothing good about two friends who steal from people and lie to cover each others tracks, there is nothing good about colleagues who work well together sticking together.

>>45279841
Smoked glass cigarettes and had a persistent self-harm problem, but more "survival mode" than edge for the most part. Also the only non evil PC.

>>45279695
That's it mate. It's pleasantly simple, I like it.

>>45279898
Thanks!

>>45279671
Very very simple. The goddess is not only sending you back but giving you power. This person should have been like a human or an elf or something warrior before with like 10pb of stats, but is now like a warpriest or an aegis or something with whatever's normal for your campaign and is maybe transformed into an aasimar or something similar.

With great responsibility comes great power! Also not being dead anymore.

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>>45279937

Maybe the goddess could come along to keep an eye on her investment but it's really because she's lonely and become the Cortana to your Master Chief.

>>45278962
The concept is cool now that I know what it is.

Bloodied Commander:
All the attacks that do bleed damage need to specify the duration of the bleeding, normally bleed damage is a DoT so you need specify if the bleed damaee is only on that attack or how many rounds it lasts.
Also check the rules to see if bleed damage stacks, if it doesn't maybe want to add that to the stance making so cursedtargets near you have the bleed damage stack.
Also te damage bonus seems to be way too low. Rain of Bood only deals +7d6 damage, 9th levels usually deal something like +20d6.

Prismatic Roar:
I find it super weird that the discipline to emulate dragons has nothing at all to do with Thrashing Dragon, the discipline flavored after emulating dragons. Personally I would solve the problem in my home games by renaming and reflavoring Thrashing Dragon, because I was never sure what do dragons have to do with TWF
Linnorm poison is hella strong, dealing a lot of damage, con drain and an extra effect on top every round. Are these effects supposed to be damage on the first round, drain on the second, extra effect on the third? What does it mean "subject begins to drown"? Does he get to hold his breath for 2x Con score? Or does he fall unconscious on round one and dies on round three? Can he spend an action coughing and puking to clean his lungs?
Also, Imperial Horns is kinda useless, far as I know you can't use gore in the same round as using bite.

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>>45279874
>he wouldn't slaughter a village to be with his waifu
Spotted the beta-cuck nu male.

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>>45279958
Party consists of
>3 other people
>You
>Your loli
"She's totally a goddess, I swear!"
"Well, what can she do?"
"Uh...."

>>45279870
Look in the pastebin

>>45279989
I never said that, i said its not a good act. Don't try and twist my words. All the great love stories are about evil people doing evil things to everyone but each other.

>>45279986
>Also, Imperial Horns is kinda useless, far as I know you can't use gore in the same round as using bite.
Isn't that only for eldions?

>>45279990

She doesn't even have to be a "person", she could just be an Intelligent Amulet or a voice inside your head.

>>45280018
That's the key point 'but each other'. I don't know any non-dickhead that would want PvP at the game table.

>>45279671
Play a binder, make it a vestige

>>45280154
Play one of the familiar archetypes, have her travel in familiar form.

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>>45279986
>Bloodied Commander:
>Duration
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/wounding Not all bleed damage has a duration -- BC specifies a cure condition, and has you cursed for as long as you bleed.
>Stacking
It also states that it stacks (In the paragraph at the top)
>Low damage bonus
I've erred on the low side of things for right now; as I don't know how much damage it's going to accomplish with stacking bleed effects.

>Prismatic Roar
>TD
I considered it, but I feel that Primal Fury's pounce maneuvers feel better to me than TD's dual weilding for natural attacks (Plus Thrashing Dragon is merging with Iron Tortoise for dual weilding shields)
>Linnorm Poison
It functions just like a Linnorm's poison, but you might be right about it doing too much. As for Drowning, it starts with the DC 10 con check, which I suppose I should write down somewhere.
>Imperial Horns
>>45280031 nailed my thoughts on it. I can't find anything on the SRD under monster rules about not being able to bite/gore same round -- Imperial dragons have both of these natural attacks.
Thanks for the feedback! Comments should be enabled if you want to write them directly to the doc.
>>45280032
You can't cuddle with a voice inside your head at night, anon!

>>45280191
You can when you're asleep.

>>45279986
Thrashing Dragon is not about emulating dragons at all. Read the fluff:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/disciplines-and-maneuvers/thrashing-dragon-maneuvers

>>45280191
>You can't cuddle with a voice inside your head at night, anon!

No, but you can tell her all the filthy things you're going to do to her when she's got a physical form.

You could even show it to her, since she's in her head.

>>45279808
Black Seraph is based on demons, rather than for demons, Silver Crane is based on angels rather than for angels, Even Unquiet Grave, while being xellent for undead is more based on undead than specifically for undead.

My idea so far is called the Laughing Forest, and centers around hitting enemies with enchantments on strikes, using some illusion and trickery and having some nature themed stuff. Like how broken blade is the monk disc and Steel Serpent is the rogue disc, Laughing Forest would be bard/druid disc.

>>45280063
Well i was only talking about it in the context of not being a /pol/ buzzword but if you want to go back to the original argument then here we go.

PVP at the table isn't right for everyone and there should of course be times when it is limited or prevented, i have gone and interjected at times i felt it was inappropriate.

But at many times it is perfectly appropriate for characters good or evil to turn on another party member or even turn on the whole party either temporarily or permanently and any group of good roleplayers can have a lot of fun playing those scenarios out. Even for players who focus on the mechanical aspect of the game PVP poses a unique circumstance and way of interacting with the game, its often a fun way to play the game and allows a change of pace from fighting "encounters".

For a lot of my games (not all, ive had a few where ive had to host players i knew this wouldn't work with) not being okay with PVP is basically a way to get yourself uninvited. If you can't find joy in the game and you can't find yourself invested enough in the characters to do anything the characters would do then why are you playing? If you don't want to rollplay and you don't want to roleplay you shouldn't play, you need one or preferably both.

That said its obviously not okay to bring PVP to a table that has a rule against it.

>>45280278
>Steel Serpent is the rogue disc
And like the rogue, it sucks.

>>45280299
How do we fix Steel Serpent?

>>45280313
Don't put its disc in, just close the tray.

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>>45278433
This anon >>45278770 back again, went and dug through some documents and put some of the less bad discoveries together into a pastebin. Admittedly, after weeding through, I didn't get a whole hell of a lot "done", and what I have is wholly uncreative. I'm still experimenting with mechanics to tie to the telepathic link, since it's already a really powerful feature, so that's not even listed.

http://pastebin.com/JCUAjrS4

I want to look into homunculus archetypes as well, but there's just not a whole hell of a lot that you can trade out before you wind up with something that isn't actually a homunculus. Though I suppose that could be the point, and maybe statting out alternate "companion constructs" could be a thing worth looking into. Having, for example, a soulbound doll companion or several could be a fun alternative to having a homunculus.

>>45279726
I'm afraid I might have beat you to it anon. I've got a Natural Attack discipline ready to go for my next book, though it's not exactly intended for monster use so much as it's designed around shapeshifting.

>>45278748
So this is based off a Pathwalker Psychic Warrior.

So if you're a natural attack based Psychic warrior and have 4 claw attacks, 2 from claws of the beats and 2 from Metamorphosis can you use Thrashing Dragon Whirlwind to do 1+3 attacks against all foes in reach?

>>45280339
>I've got a Natural Attack discipline ready to go for my next book, though it's not exactly intended for monster use so much as it's designed around shapeshifting.
Wat.

This sounds *awesome*

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>>45280338

>tfw no Plain Doll to call me a good hunter

>>45276549
>What are the best items to buy for characters in general who start at level 3 with 3,000 gp?

> Everyone
Wayfinder, Ioun Torch, Cracked Magenta Prism, Potion of Lesser Restoration (made by a paladin), Potion of Protection from Evil, Cloak of Resistance +1, Magic Armor +1. I do not include a Magic weapon as +1 to damage (masterwork is a must) is not that much of an edge for 66%+ of your budget.

> Trickster-Types
Boots of the Cat, Handy Haversack, Hat of Disguise, Gloves of the Cheating Apprentice, Mithril Chain Shirt (magical or not), Traveler's Any-Tool, Efficient Quiver, Ring of Sustenance, Potion of Invisibility / Vanish

> Melee types
Muleback Cord, Potions of Bull Strength, Potions of Enlarge Person, Cloak of the Hedge Wizard (Transmutation).

> Casters
Wands (especially CLW / Magic Missile, caster lvl 1), Scrolls of "anything you'd need in an emergency", Ring of Sustenance

That's my 2 cents.

>>45280339
Does it just have minor shapeshifts or can you actually do wild shape style full transformations?
Either way I'm glad to hear that Elric, it sounds like a good discipline to fill one of the niches PoW doesn't currently do.

Have you found a writer willing to write a grappling discipline yet or apply the effects of a strike to a grapples "damage" function? I recall most of DSP's writers refused to do it because they couldn't understand grappling and all believed grappling has been unchanged since 3.0.

>>45280313
Boost heavy discipline that adds a ton of crippling affects. Allow them to choose which save they target, whether it be Fort/Reflex/Will, or a rider attack on AC.
Steel Serpent should be hard on the crowd control with it's boosts and hard on the con damage for it's strikes, allowing a practitioner to safely eat away at his foes.
Poison bombs to deal with crowds.
Finally, a way to 'speed up' these poisons; trading efficiency for speed so you can cripple quickly to the point where you can safely engage them.

If offered, I'd rewrite the entire thing from the ground up to make it a poisoners dream.

>>45280339
Gareth is going to kill you for discipline bloat, you know. Is the next book open to writers?

>>45280262
Even ignoring all the names with talon, wing, fang, wyrm or dragon:

Leaping Dragon
As a dragon takes wing, his powerful legs thrust him skyward as his wings spread out to clutch the air.

Ancients Fang
With a powerful overhand throw, the Thrashing Dragon disciple hurls one of his blades into his foe's form with force and power rivaling the snapping jaws of an ancient dragon.

Sharpened Talons
As a dragon might drag his claws across a castle wall to hone their edge, the disciple has learned to give his own attacks a deadly edge for his next attack.

Tail Slap
As the true dragon fights and employs all of its mighty limbs in combat, so does the disciple that emulates their graceful and deadly style.

Brutal Dragons Stance
By adopting the mannerisms of the rampant dragon, he inflicts heavy, chopping blows that decimate his foes as he wades through their broken forms.

Dragon Warriors Talon
With mastery of the Thrashing Dragon's dance comes supremacy in effectiveness and efficiency with the arms that emulate the weapons of the dragon race. His mien is that of a ferocious, implacable dragon and his blades, hands and feet represent the deadly weapons of the wyrms that inspired the style in their deadly prowess.

Thrashing Blades
With the speed and ferocity of a rampaging dragon, the disciple rends his foe to ribbons with his furious onslaught as he turns the quickening principles of fighting many opponents to fight only one.

I want you to apologize, but I can't hear you over the sound of you being so fucking wrong.

>>45278725
Every class get (1d6) + (actual hit die's maximum value - 6) + (Con mod) + (other bonuses) hp per level. Made our "fighters" reliably tougher than our "mages".

>>45277760
SoP: Expanded has archetypes for all the casting classes released outside of the Core Book (such as shaman, witch, etc.) but not the Occult classes or the Alchemist (although some of the Handbook Writers for the sphere-centric releases will include occult and alchemic archetypes).

As for said Handbooks, I'd deeeefinitely wait until they're all released before even considering purchasing them. They need a shit-ton more playtesting and errata before anyone can call them complete, and the material flails wildly between amazing and "why did anyone think this was a good idea".

>>45279671
The guy has always yearned to be a special champion for some cause, and just never had that moment until now.

>>45280278
Right, and I didn't specify. Can't wait to see what you come up with, though!

>>45280421
I've been working on this book (or trying to, PoW:E is a very whiny child that needs a lot of attention) since last year. I'm hoping to get the playtest together soon though.

If there's interest I might show some stuff from the new discipline.

>>45280454
We're not touching grappling disciplines.

>>45280467
Gareth and I have already discussed it. I also already have a partner I'm working on this book with.

>>45280468
Thrashing Dragon is a discipline about two weapon fighting. It is not a "dragon discipline" except in that it has maneuvers named after dragons. Just like there are real world martial arts moves named after badgers and tigers and praying mantises, there are fictional martial arts named after fictional monsters. TD disciples are not trying to be dragons.

>>45279937
>>45279958
>>45280032
Sounds neat.

>>45280191
>You can't cuddle with a voice inside your head at night, anon!

That's unchaste, Anon

>lvl 6 ranger already has 12 bonus to damage on all bow damage rolls
i am almost tempted to start throwing random wind walls around because bumping cr up will kill the other members of the party first

>>45280542
Then hire a writer who will touch it. Ignoring it is not the solution, grapples are not a universally loathed or ignored aspect of the game and wrestling mighty beasts is one of the heroic cliches path of war should help to model. An archetype or feat that applied strikes when maintaining a grapple would serve a similar purpose but we both know you won't do that for fear of edge cases.

>>45280427
Also, for melee types:
> 1 Spiked Gauntlet, Cold Iron
> 1 Spiked Gauntlet, Alchemical Silver

For Ranged Characters:
20 Cold Iron Arrows / Bolts
20 Alchemical Silver Arrows / Bolt
3 Adamantine Arrows / Bolt

Gauntlets have the perk of not needing to be drawn even though their damage is a bit on the low side. Arrows are extremely cost-efficient in dealing with early DR/material monsters.

Also, an adamantine arrowhead can be used to scribble instructions / notches on ANYTHING. Perfect to mark your way in a dungeon. Plus, it handles your occasional animated object.

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Can I bargain for levels or 'Gestalt' with an infernal contract? Do devils understand those kinds of ideas?

"I want the knowledge and experience that has come with slaying a thousand pit fiends in a one-on-one duel."

"I want to possess the strength of an both a wizard and fighter at my level of training."

>>45280642
>An archetype or feat that applied strikes when maintaining a grapple would serve a similar purpose but we both know you won't do that for fear of edge cases.
Go the other way around then. When you use a strike you also get to maintain the grapple.

>>45280634
I've never played a ranger. What's he do to get that?

>>45277870
>Our dexterity is no worse, but not better
I dunno, I've seen women drive.

>>45280706
I think dexterity and coordination aren't quite the same thing.

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>>45277981

>>45280642
It's not that simple anon. Each discipline has over 30 maneuvers and 6 stances. There simply isn't enough about grappling to cover a full discipline.

There really is nothing preventing you from using most strikes in a grapple, except what the grapple rules already prevent you from doing. You can take a standard action while grappled, and so long as you have the appropriate weapon to be used in a grapple, you can use that standard action to perform a strike. We're not ignoring the issue of grappling, we've investigated it and found little reason to expand beyond what's already allowed.

>>45280706
And I've seen dudes drive. Also people from Georgia, who are fucking nuts on the road regardless of gender.

>>45280660
How easy is it to get an infernal contract?

>>45280736
They're exactly the same thing. Dexterity is agility and hand-eye coordination. Think motor skills in general.

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>>45280642
Grapple style, eh?
>>45280754
>It's not that simple anon. Each discipline has over 30 maneuvers and 6 stances. There simply isn't enough about grappling to cover a full discipline.

Not enough for a single discipline?
You know what'd be a really good solution to this?

I really need to get around to finishing this for submittal.

>>45280760
Yeah, and don't get me started on elderly drivers. Or dragons.

>>45280792
Fucking dragons.

>>45280792
The elderly take penalties to dexterity as their age category increases.

>>45280781
Two gate, planar blah, or similar spells.
Offer soul first time around for $$$, if they accept they dissapear and 1d4+1 weeks later, you call them up again and sign the contract.

Then you're damned to hell; but hey! Stat bonuses!
>>45280792
>dragonfuckingcar.jpeg

>>45280542
Since it was mentioned, is discipline bloat an actual problem you're facing?

Like, does the team hesitate on making more just because 'there are already almost too many'?
Just out of curiosity.

Interested in that playtest too, though.

>>45280694
You can't maintain the grapple but you can sort of restart it over and over with Fiendbound Marauder's free Grab ability. I don't really think it works quite as well and it doesn't reward grappling, it just gives you free grapples that aren't very good.
>>45280754
Nor does there have to be. Grappling should have just got 6-7 maneuvers and 2-3 stances in Broken Blade, but instead it got a grand total of one that barely mentions grappling.

Choosing to break your grapple to initiate a strike makes having entered a grapple to begin with feel pointless. You are correct that once people have greater grapple its possible to maintain the grapple and at the same time do strikes i suppose.

Look, there are going to be new disciplines where there will be opportunities for grappling to be a part of that discipline. At some point a discipline based on physical perfection, some kind of bone breaking kappa inspired style or some other discipline will present the opportunity to include a grappling stance and a handful of grappling maneuvers. I beg you to take that opportunity at some point. I was actually very surprised Unquiet Grave had no grappling as it would have been very useful to vampires.

>>45280754
Do you think there's a problem with the fact that veiled moon can let you automatically escape grapples with no rolls required from as early as character level 3?
Is there a potential good fix for that?

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>>45280781
Not particularly hard if you know a devil. Any of them can make a contract, though the span of time to draft it up ranges from months to hours depending on the power of the devil. Dedicated contractors with the Infernal Legist feat can draw one up as a full-round action whenever they like.

The power of the contract also depends on the devil, of course. You'd probably need a pit fiend to grant something as big as gestalt.

>>45280872
I thought you couldn't initiate maneuvers if denied dex; like if you're pinned?

>>45280872
Freedom of Movement is also a serious problem for Grapplers. There should really be a feat and/or item that prevents that sort of thing.

>>45280850
Have you got a grapple fetish, anon?

...Actually now that I think about it, I can see the appeal a bit.

>>45280886
Pinned does deny it, but that takes an extra turn, before which anyone who has a teleportation strike can and will use it.

>>45280899
Freedom of movement is also limited per day and a bit harder to get at such low levels for most.

>>45280822
It's a topic of contention. We can all agree that there will (or has) come a point where more disciplines would negatively impact the product instead of improving it. The question is where that line lies, and we all have different opinions on that.

>>45280850
You were asking for a grappling discipline, Which is somewhere in the rage of 30+ maneuvers and 6 stances of material centered around the theme of grappling. The answer to that is no.

Asking why there aren't more grappling maneuvers or stances elsewhere is a different question. One that you didn't ask me, and one that potentially has a different answer. Right now, I don't know what that answer would be. All I know is that an entirely grapple centric discipline simply isn't feasible.

>>45280872
Not particularly. You just grapple them again since they've only got the one maneuver at level 3 that can be used to escape. Once it's expended they're vulnerable again.

>>45280886
Immobilized, not denied dex.

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>>45280790
No.

>>45280642
> Implying we don't like the image the same as you.

Anon, grapple might have been improved from 3.5 but being merely a pile of shit instead of irradiated, burning pile of shit doesn't mean it's not shit. None of us want to get stuck in to the blood-soaked mess that are grappling rules and we sure as hell don't trust some random guy off the metaphorical street to do so.

Lack of appreciation for the archetype is not our problem. And I'm getting goddamn sick of having this argument.

>>45280945
A Ring of Freedom of Movement ain't cheap, but it is probably my character's most prized magic item.

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>>45280955
Go ahead and shoot me down! I'll just become more powerful! More homebrewy! More fluffy!

>>45280955
Fuck off Gareth. You've never had anything of value to contribute in these arguments you are sick of. You used to always post about your passion for customer service with one post and follow the next with shitting on anyone who called for the parts of the game you personally dislike to get content.

The only one acting like a pile of irradiated shit is you.

>>45280954
I guess that's reasonable, but to my eyes i was asking for grappling content for path of war in general, bringing up feats and archetypes as well.

Honestly i doubt you'll find space for it in your next book if you don't have an answer right now, but hopefully some day in another supplement we can see something.

>>45281025
And neither are you, except holding out your hands and demanding "Gib grapple discipline now." You've had *two* of them tell you it's not in the cards and your reaction is to get so butthurt that you're transferring your behavior onto them.

Tl;dr grow up and learn to accept "no" once in a while.

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>>45281025
wow
speak for yourself cunt

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>>45281015
Pic related. Your fluffiness will not save you.

>>45281025
I criticized the rules, not your life choices anon.

>>45281081
dark vader
black seraph, scarlet throne
what else?

How big does a dragon need to be before a medium sized creature can ride it?

>>45281117
Large? Horses are large and medium-sized creatures ride them...

>>45280642
>>45280754
>>45280850
Grapple disciplines, you say?
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DwJ2WkV-Lcq910vaA9ag6-Dlo6mw6r4TFjJ22pIBCYw/edit?usp=sharing

Only first level is fully written, because I got lazy and fully writing the maneuvers isn't as fun as thinking them up.

>>45281117
Large.

>>45281068
I can really only answer questions I know the answer to. You asked about a grapple discipline and I know the answer is that it's simply not worth pursuing.

I'm not opposed to possibly setting aside space to expand on areas of combat that haven't gotten the proper PoW treatment yet, but I can't say with any certainty what those are or when they'll happen. So I don't.

>>45281151
Please read the rest of the grappling discussion. We're not interested in pursuing a discipline dedicated entirely to grappling. It's simply not going to happen.

>>45281117
>>45281136
>>45281154
Any size, because you can still ride one that's too small or too large with a -5 penalty to your ride check. You might run into more problems if the dragon isn't strong enough to actually carry you and your gear effectively.

>>45281189
Not even one dedicated mostly to just throwing people, like Setting Sun? That would be simple as hell. You're ignoring a really significant part of fantasy melee.

>>45281189
>We're not interested in pursuing a discipline dedicated entirely to grappling.
And? Are you going to prohibit me from making and sharing my own homebrew?

>>45281081
I was criticizing your attitude. Do you really not see a problem with how you do this every fucking time someone brings up athanatism, bloodforge, grappling and a bunch of other shit? At least most of the time you are polite, but its bullshit to say you are sick of your customers asking you for shit you reject in the most bullshit ways. Elric gave me a clearer explanation than you have ever given any of the people who've asked for the same shit i did.
>>45281079
I'm not trying to speak on behalf of everyone.

>>45281189
Maybe put some grappling support stuff in place of the BB Knuckle boosts and Flurry strikes? Would fit inside the "unarmed" theme quite nicely.

What would people think about a 1 Bloodrager/19 Warder build? Blood Conduit and Zweihander Sentinel archetypes, with a focus on the Archon Style feat line.

>>45281255
I'd make a joke about the DSP grapple police but people would take it seriously right now.
>>45281161
Oh i understood that from your previous post, sorry i thought i was conveying that i understood you.

>>45281255
Even if we could, we wouldn't. Homebrew is a good outlet for things that would be difficult or inadvisable to do formally.

>>45281316
Why do you need Archon Style? Don't your marks and counters let you do similar things?
Won't Bloodrager not give much with just one level? What is it you are getting from it?

>>45281234
I don't want to ignore anything. I want to make sure it's done right and up to the standards that I've set for myself.

>>45281255
My apologies anon. You linked my post when I had my developer hat on so I assumed that you were attempting to notify me as a DSP developer. You're more than welcome to write and share whatever homebrew you want. I wish you the best of luck with it.

>>45281282
I've said it multiple times: I can't say for sure what we'll do as far as grappling, errata, or alterations/additions to disciplines in the future and I'd appreciate it if you'd stop asking me. I don't want to say anything that isn't definitive.

>>45281263
To be fair, I can understand getting annoyed when, like in this thread, they say 'We are not going to do X' and people keep asking for X, or making Y more Xlike, or giving them shit for not doing X like they don't have a million other things on their plate.

I don't think it's especially professional, but it's easier for me to disregard that because 4chan.

>>45281353
Bloodrager gives Rage and Celestial Bloodline, and the character's flavor has to do with being an Archon-Blooded Aasimar, so Archon Style seemed appropriate, plus it frees up the ability to focus more on Scarlet Throne and Primal Fury than Iron Tortoise

>>45277570
Is the cavalier class any good? What are some good archetypes for it?

This is the Chimera Soul discipline as it stands currently. You're welcome to peruse it, although I can't say how long it'll be before the playtest for its book is ready, since my job likes to interfere with my writing a lot lately.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gRqP7ddL2KLerQGjZWEDrJSeUPfamtm3A3S5ZeQfmxk/edit?usp=sharing

>>45281401
Cavalier is pretty meh. The focus on mounted combat makes it pretty difficult to use indoors, making dungeons a bit of a hassle. That said, I like the Gendarme Archetype, because if you're going to spec into mounted combat, you may as well do it right.

>>45281445
Neat

>>45277615
On a related note, my friend says theirs no disparities between martials and casters because martials can get items with SR. I'm thinking that isn't enough to make martials worth it. Thoughts?

>>45281401
>>45281476
And the Daring Champion archetype is better than the entire Swashbuckler class if you are so inclined.

>>45281498
Spell Resistance is really easy to bypass

>>45281498
That's retarded

>>45281498
Your friend is full of shit. Items that give SR never give enough to reliably deny enemy casters...and that's not even the whole of the disparity. And that's not even counting the number of spells that aren't subject to SR, nor indirect effects like dropping boulders on your head.

It comes down, in a nutshell, to "wizards/clerics/druids can literally do *anything,* and martials can full-attack."

>>45281476
I wish being Small wasn't the only way to address the indoor-mounted-combat problem. We need like, skateboards, or something.

>>45281498
That's dumb. The disparities isn't about caster VERSUS martial, it's about how full casters have a bajillion options in and out of combat, and pure martials (like fighters, rogues, etc) have "do damage and use skill points" as their entire shtick.

>>45281498
SR is if not the worst then one of the worst defensive abilities for PCs especially ones that aren't casters themselves because it also works on friendly spells unless you waste your turn lowering it. There are also no items I'm aware of that offer scaling spell resistance, and ones that go higher than 13-ish tend to be exorbitantly priced.

Oh, and on top of that: even if you can get appropriately scaled SR, there are plenty of spells that flat-out ignore it. And it still does nothing to shore up the out-of-combat abilities that martials get.

>>45281561
And martials VERSUS casters in combat isn't nearly the relevant topic to be even arguing about.

>>45281569
I'm DMing a campaign with a Kobold Cavalier. The number of times I've had to tell him he can't take his Boar mount indoors in the city is infuriating.

>>45281498
This is what I think led to half of the martial/caster disparity, saying that martials are made under the assumption that they'll benefit more from magic items which'll put them in the same league as spellcasters. Someone clearly forgot Wizards benefit from magic items just as much as Fighters.

>>45281569
This post alone has made me want to play a modern setting.

>>45281569
See >>45281206. Medium creatures can have a medium sized mount, just grab Skill Focus Ride or something or a magic saddle that gives a bonus to Ride checks.

>>45281445
It's... beautiful!
I'm sorry I was angry at you Elric. I love you guys again.

>>45281648
Also there's the Undersized Mount feat

>>45281617
But why can't he take the boar indoors? If he's mid levels or higher he can just trample anybody who refuses until they change their minds.

>>45281498
You shouldn't be friends with them any more
>martials are worth it when the wizard puts a spell on them to make them more resistant to magic

>>45281619
They can even use a much wider variety of them. It's not easy for a Fighter to be UMDing wands and scrolls that casters automatically know how to use.

>>45281661
Love you too.

>>45281675
He's level 4

>>45281151
Hnng, totemist the discipline.

>>45281381
I understand his point of view but if he wants to use inflammatory language so will i. I don't think there's anything wrong with calling someone an irradiated pile of shit on 4chan and i still respect a lot of what Gareth does and has done.

But that comment he made about being "sick of this argument" pissed me off because its his get out of jail free card for every content suggestion here and its disrespectful to people like me who enjoy his work and just want to see more of it.

>>45281692
>>45281661
Now kith

>>45281700
Tell him to put a hat of disguise on it and disguise it as a dog, or a pony or some shit.

man
paizo's APs suck
there is zero tension with how easy they are

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>>45281661
>Stance of the Sea King

Goddamn, even with unrelated things you manage to weeb out, don't you Elric?
This is an awesome gift, thank you.

>>45281700
That's still enough to casually kick the shit out any puny normals who object.

Keep in mind that even like Navy SEALS in the real world are only level 6 equivalent.

>>45281741
Don't tell anyone but I'm a huge nerd. I've talked about my design process on here before. Don't know why it's surprising.

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>>45279671

>>45281675
Boars don't belong indoors, come on. I would side with the DM on this one, his advantage is to be able to take the boar into dungeons, and homes he might be ATTACKING, like leading a raid on a crimelord's estate.

Riding a boar into just any establishment or friendly house is practically an offensive action.

>>45281748
He's using the Order of the Sword. It would be against his character to bully the weak (his words, not mine)

>>45278701
Well an outsider started one of the martial traditions.

>>45281445
Question, wouldn't Chimera Soul also be a good fit for Polymaths, in a similar manner on how mutagens and such work?

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>>45281766

>>45281733
I ran Crypt of the Everflame and nearly had party wipes repeatedly, and had to houserule/pretend that Heal skillchecks could restore hitpoints up to 0 just so they didn't run out of potions to simply stand up.

I was thinking the rest would be like that, but I guess not?

>>45281790
>Boars don't belong indoors

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYEMzLLzJDk

>>45281708
Is this a good Hnng or a bad Hnng? What is the relation with Totemist?
Is there anything I can do to make it better?

>>45281445
That chimeric stance is cool! Sorta gives you wild shape kinda.
Aren't you worried at early levels its going to kind of end up doing damn high damage compared to other disciplines though?
Right now it kinda feels like broken blade and thrashing dragon had a baby at the lower levels.

I guess you can collect more feedback during the playtest, but i think its pretty awesome overall! The only real complaint i have is tail slaps and wing attacks are missing, but those are rather minor complaints. It looks fun!

>>45281851
Potentially yes, but not all polymaths have access to mutagens. They're always welcome to take it through Unorthodox Method, and there will be an associated Martial Tradition to go with it.

>>45281891
The low level damage is something I'll be keeping an eye on. This is just a little taste to whet y'alls appetite while I get the playtest stuff together.

>>45281844
One? More like a lot: Silver Crane, Elemental Flux, Shattered Mirror, Sleeping Goddess, possibily Cursed Razor and Black Seraph traditions all come from the teachings of outsiders.

>>45281883
Not all pigs are medium-sized riding boars intended for use in battle that are currently being ridden by armed strangers. Those are a series of key distinctions. But thank you that was cute

>>45281861
I haven't run it yet, but reading it it seemed pretty meh in difficulty, it just seemed like a typical dungeon endurance run.
>>45281733
Really? I found them pretty swingy.
Rise of the Runelords has that fucking imp that shits infinite monsters and Iron Gods has that four armed juju zombie who will rip at least one player to shreds nearly instantly and is a surprise behind a door.

>>45281445
>Heart of the Beast (lv4)
>Boost that lasts 1 minute
This is a maneuver that wants to be a stance. There's not much difference in-combat except that it stacks with other stances. Out of combat people will be initiating it over and over so they can use it to track things by scent.

Also, there should be a rule that anyone with access to this discipline gains the shapechanger subtype. And maybe a tradition that gives you the Alternate Form ability (Beast Shape I, no bonuses).

>>45281941
Ah, well silver crane is the only one I'm familiar with because it's the one my current character uses the martial tradition for.

>>45281884
Totemist was a 3.5 incarnum using class that had a lot of the same schtick, copying the skills of certain magical beasts, an outsider or two and sometimes dragons. And that hnng is good.

>>45281891
Yeah, Beast Swipe could stand to trade places with Bloody Horn or Tample.

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>>45281766
Oh I know, you've mentioned it before. I just find it funny that you managed to sneak something into a completely unrelated discipline. Does this mean I can use this to AWAKEN MY MASTERS!?

>>45281933
What would the tradition be? For some reason Bloody Fangs feels like it'd be a more fitting tradition for this than it does for Primal Fury.

>>45281445
Are there any plans for a whip or Lasso based discipline?
Neither of those weapons get any love at all and its such a shame.

>>45281714
>>45281714
Yeah, I'm not faulting you for getting mad at him either. This is 4chan, again.

I'm just saying I'm getting where he's coming from, not that I condone his responses or think he's in the right.

>>45281977
It's not as bad as Sleeping Goddess and its three maneuvers that create a Souls Blade of different levels. Now that was something that should have been a stance, but it would have to much overlap with Soulknife.

>>45281977
The shapechanger subtype doesn't really /do/ anything though:

>A shapechanger has the supernatural ability to assume one or more alternate forms. Many magical effects allow some kind of shapeshifting, and not every creature that can change shape has the shapechanger subtype.

>A shapechanger possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry).

>Proficient with its natural weapons, with simple weapons, and with any weapons mentioned in the creature's description.
>Proficient with any armor mentioned in the creature's description, as well as all lighter forms. If no form of armor is mentioned, the shapechanger is not proficient with armor. A shapechanger is proficient with shields if it is proficient with any type of armor.


As for Heart of the Beast, it's similar to Riven Hourglass's Time Skitter boost.

>>45282046
Forrest is the one who wrote a bunch of JoJo related stuff. I haven't had time to watch the series yet so I didn't want to touch it for fear of doing it a disservice.

>>45282084
My co-author is writing the martial tradition. I haven't checked on the status of it in a while, but it'll be available with the playtest.

>>45282115
Disciplines don't work like that anon. They're meant to fill broad combat styles, not be tied to singular weapons. Most melee maneuvers work fine with a whip, they're in the flail weapon group so they're even discipline weapons for a few disciplines.

>>45281445
Pretty neat, so it's like a supernatural counterpart to primal fury.

Out of interest on the natural attacks only adding str mod, I know one of your agendas is to decrease the str-dex disparity but did you know that natural attacks are finessable?

Minor note:
>envenomed fangs
>target: one ally

>>45282024
Ah, I think you got the wrong link on that first post, you're probably talking about Chimeric Soul, not about my grapple discipline.

>>45282117
I don't think anyone is in the right in this situation, least of all me.
>>45282168
Everything replaces the soulknife these days.

>>45282217
>The shapechanger subtype doesn't really /do/ anything though
Yeah but there are a few effects that interact with it.

>>45282222
Good catch. Yes I'm aware that Natural Attacks are finessable. Unless I'm mistaken, Deadly Agility should still work to replace STR with Dex for damage in this case. Or are you suggesting that should not be the case.

>>45282267
Fair enough. It's a minor change to add.

>>45282217
The Shapechanger Subtype isn't for giving you bonuses, its for making anti-shapechanger abilities work on you.

What Jojo related stuff is he working on at the moment? Or do you only vaguely know he is doing so and don't know what specifically?

>>45282115
Maybe a discipline more broadly based on the flail weapon group? Something like Piercing Thunder but for anything that is is large part made of rope or chain?

If there's nothing official I can add it to my list for homebrewing.

Too bad Steel Serpent exists it would be an awesome name for this idea.

>>45282297
His most recent Kineticist archetype basically turns the kineticist's blast into a Stand. There's been other references but I don't know what else specifically he's done.

>>45281944
CotE has really deadly moments, like an incorporeal monster that certain level 1 parties can just have no way to fight at all, or the chamber with the self-sealing doors and rotating arrow trap that fires 1d4 arrows at each character every round for 10 rounds - those arrows being at +10 attack bonus and dealing 1d8 damage each. I can hardly think of what sort of normal character at 1st level is intended to be able to survive that. Even a weird Dex-based Barbarian with 19 AC would easily die (actual death not just knocked into negatives), unless you deliberately force the PCs to take the 60lb wooden tower shields off the Large statue they may or may not have fought yet, that make you flat-footed when equipped in addition to the usual penalties.

>>45282222
Noting that they add str mod is standard wording for natural attacks. Deadly agility would swap it just fine.

>>45282217
Watch some Jojo, bro.

Arc 1 is just eh but it does important worldbuilding, arc 2 is the best, arc 3 is the most well-known (it introduces Stands).

>>45282332
>not having a party that's all dwarves with tower shields in the first place

>>45282280
What about letting it qualify you for Aspect of the Beast?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/aspect-of-the-beast

>>45282320
Not sure it was Forrest, but Riven Hourglass just screams Dio, Josuke and all the later time powered shenanigans from JoJo.

>>45282314
That'd probably work much better, anything made of spike or chain. I currently got a character that dual wields whips.
And while the gimmick is amazingly fun and I can roll CMB like a nigga, the complete lack of damage, no AoOs, having to eat a dick when it comes to not getting back handed once they get up close (And they will since no AoOs) is a shit.
Just a Discipline that makes some of the more obscure and brutalized weapons, whip, lasso, net, so on so forth, viable would be 10/10
>>45282217
Daymn Shame, its a seriously under-usable weapon as it stands.

>>45280760
Georgians are a trip. My stepfather-in-law is a Georgian. Nice guy, but still.

>>45282297
It wasn't so much a bunch of JoJo stuff as it was a stand kineticist and thematic naming on a monk multiclass feat. I enjoy JoJo but am quite behind on it.

>>45282379
I'm not sure what you're asking.

>>45282393
That was ErrantX, although Forrest and I helped clean it up.

>>45282393
Whips are tricky but can be used really well if you have the right feats/archetypes.

>>45282280
>>45282339
Fair, just checking.
I remember in Lords of the night the reason vampires got a mandatory +2 str rather than dex while they could choose their mental stat to upgrade was because Gareth thought that the vampire bite was str-only.
(it's okay Gareth I forgive you)

The wording sounded like it only allowed str so it's nice that it was cleared up.

>>45282420
Meh, try and get in on the Akashic game and make a Hamon archetype for Gurus. Its already 90% Hamon, it just needs that final push.

It kinda sucks nobody's really working on Akasha at the moment, plus iirc nearly all the archetypes in Akasha are for non-akashic classes.

>>45282456
If DSP gets some really solid stuff for making Jojos, then I might be able to actually sell a couple of my other friends that I play Pathfinder with on at least trying that stuff, since we all watch Jojo together. And of course, it's a slippery slope from there, hopefully soon after they would be completely corrupted by DSP material.

>>45282436
I'm asking if Chimera Soul maneuvers can be used to qualify for Aspect of the Beast. Given the number of things that qualify for it already (wild shape, lycanthropy, rangers with the natural weapon combat style, and catfolk with the Catfolk Exemplar feat) it seems like it would make sense.

>>45278982

These are pretty dope. Thanks for the recommendation.

>>45282516
If you want a Jojo game, you should be using FATE. I mean, PF can do "everyone fights with punch-ghosts", but it can't handle the improvisational way that everyone fights.

>>45278725

I dunno about best since it's super-overpowered compared to most martial disciplines, but I'm a fan of that Berserk-inspired martial discipline over on minmaxboards. Mainly because I love Berserk (they're finally off the boat!)

Crimson Earth, IIRC

>>45282516
>>45282516
Honestly, I feel like PF in general isn't conductive to JoJo style fights.

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>>45282401
You know I would do this discipline just so I have the opportunity of making a Get Over Here strike.

Brainstorm with me, what would be some good stances for this disc?
I'm thinking about a first level one that gives you Whip Mastery, so you can use whips properly from first level, and gives 1d6 damage (+1d6 every 8th levels) if you already have the feat or are using another flail weapon.

>>45282653
Couldn't you just use a grab weapon with the Mithral Current maneuvers that let you make melee attacks from a distance?

>>45280339

So Warshaper, the discipline?

>>45282653
I've fluffed the Fiendbound Marauder's Fiend Grip into a claw with a spiked chain coming from it-and because it has the Grab special quality, any melee attack that hits grants a chance to grapple.

>>45282580
If you like those send a message to the creator in either board. He's a cool guy and accepts ideas on talents and archetypes for his classes.

>>45282653
Hell I can think of an entire 6 point line up just for level 1
>Boost: Gain Climb speed with yer whip for a round, since you're using it as a rope (Or just auto-pass a 15/20 ft movement jump/climb)
>Boost: Gain a reposition manuver without any risk of AoO if the main attack hits
>Strike: Tie up the limb of an enemy rendering it useless for a turn
>Counter: Roll disarm attempt, then weapons are locked together, they don't lose their weapon though.
>Stance: Whip Mastery, +1d6/8 levels

>>45278725
The shadewright i guess.

>>45282682
I don't think so. And there aren't weapons with a Grab property, but a Grapple property.
>>45282737
This works, it gains both the Grapple weapon property and the Grab monster ability. Can even reach 15 feet with Lunge.
But I would rather also have a Come Over Here in a disc instead of locked away behind the Devil May Cry 4 archetype.

>>45278274
>tfw people playing GiantitP forum homebrew classes near me

>>45282770
Missing the second stance, but yeah this is good.
The boost can start a line of movement boosts that eventually allow you to move like in the new Just Cause, maybe even webswing if you have two whips/chains/lassos
The second boost works for a low level Get over here.
The strike I would like to bump a level, get a basic attack and do +1d6 damage in here. One problem with whips is the lack of damage at low levels.
The counter can possibly negate an attack or even a full attack at high levels, maybe move it up a two or three levels

>>45282708
Essentially yes. It's here >>45281445 if you want a look.

Sup /tg/, hoping you can help me out here. My main gaming group is under the impression that a a straight 1-20, unarchetyped Fighter is unmatched in damage output. I've unsuccessfully argued with them, using the Paladin and Barbarian as counter examples, but don't have the math to back it up. Would any of you kind gents have proof that supports my position?

>>45283544
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kac7?The-DPR-Olympics-or-Im-not-the-mechanic-here

This might help. But honestly you're pretty unlikely to dissuade your friends with facts. The backfire effect is strong with Pathfinder fans.

>>45283544
Tell them to provide math to back up their assertion as well.

>>45283544
There's a newer thread here: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mhpi?The-DPR-Summer-Olympics-or-What-are-we

The first page has some good examples, with a fighter 10 doing 71.34 DPR and a synthesist summoner 10 doing 124 DPR.

Hey, a question for the DSP guys.

What's the best way to self-publish? What's the hole process behind publishing PF material? For why I have in mind, money is not the main objective, and I'll probably only charge $1 for the product

>>45279631
I was super pissed when he told me his character idea, but he played it perfectly. The character was bitter and frustrated as fuck due to his depowering, but only brought it up in moments when it was funny not so much to be annoying.

>>45281476
How would a human order of the dragon cavalier with a strategist archetype handle?

>>45283333
You're certainly a DSP favorite for a reason. I'd love to see a strike or discipline feat that lets you graft the natural attacks of fallen enemies to yourself, if I can make a suggestion.

>>45283847
Thanks. I'm not sure that grafting other people's bodyparts onto you is really something that can be effectively modeled through the initiating subsystem. That's usually a much more involved and long lasting process than maneuvers provide and it doesn't really mesh with the themes of the book I'm working on.

>>45283847
>Sever limb
>Wield as improvised weapon
>Manifest http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/g/graft-weapon

>>45283773
Not DSP, but there's a couple of main things to it:

- Actually making a book. You can do this in a bunch of ways - iBooks Author if you only want to release to Apple-ites, Microsoft Word exporting to a PDF file, LaTeX for fancy-looking typography, Pandoc to export to PDF and ePub, whatever. The important part is that whatever you do can produce a PDF with bookmarks, and potentially produce an ePub as well.

- The OGL. This is really straightforward: put a page at the back of your book with the OGL itself, with an indication of Open Content and Product Identity for what's in the book, and with a Section 15 containing the contents of each Section 15 of each other piece of OGL material you're using (not just that book itself, but each book's entire Section 15 entry). See http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/openGameLicense.html for a good example. Make sure that you follow Product Identity/Open Content requirements of each other book you're using - for example, this is why d20pfsrd has classes/archetypes renamed to remove deity names.

- Actually selling the book. You can do this anywhere, so it'll just depend on your tastes and how you feel with the royalties different services take. For example, Amazon Kindle self-publishing uses ePubs (well, they use a proprietary format, but you convert ePubs to it), DriveThruRPG usually uses PDFs, etc.

>>45283799
The order and archetype don't seem to compliment each other very well, but I could see it being a really useful build in a melee-heavy party.

>>45283580
>>45283653
>>45283694

Many thanks anons

>>45283544
Ask them to build the level 20 fighter for you

Then use the same point buy and equipment budget for a barbarian/paladin/hell, even a zen archer

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So who would be into the idea of a campaign with level 1 characters with 5 or 10 mythic ranks, as randos who suddenly inherited the power of deceased or demoted gods a la Time of Troubles?

Question for dreamscarred press with the ectoplasmic artist.
How does their burn mechanic, sculptor of the soul, interact with the kinetic healer utility talent?

New thread

>>45284036
>>45284036
>>45284036
>>45284036
>>45284036

>>45281445
>Many Maneuvers of the Chimera Soul Discipline specify a specific type of Natural Attack. If your form currently does not have this natural attack, you temporarily gain the attack for purposes of initiating this maneuver, but it only does your Strength Modifier in damage, plus any bonus from the maneuver.
This means what, the attack deals damage as normal but its weapon dice is effectively zero?

>>45284026
Of great importance is to NOT accidentally teach them "oh, that just means that <X> is overpowered, thanks for showing us that". You should make sure that you're teaching them that a normal fighter is a very low baseline and underpowered.