What system does magic well? In a way that's not free form

>>44298221
D&D 4e.

>>44298238
/thread

Mage the Awakening has the closest thing to a perfect magic system that I've played.

>>44298221
Dungeon World, with the ritual ability. Class warfare expands it, and the Mage third party class is probably overpowered but still awesome.

>>44298221
Standard GURPS is not complex, and you can add on as much complexity as you want. How does it get better than tailoring it to suit your needs?

>>44298221
Fate. Magic is the same as every other action. You can swap the timescales around no problem. You can combine Aspects, Stunts and the four basic actions to fit any sort of spell whatsoever.

>>44298238

I'd throw out another vote for that. Both quick and dirty spells alongside long-term rituals.

I'm going to briefly explain my magic system.

>Secrets, a generic term for information people want, hold power.
>Secrets fall into a number of general categories, with smaller categories existing essentially on command. Anatomy a subcategory of biology.
>When wanting to cast a spell you either choose from a list you've already created, or try and make one on the fly.
>Making a spell essentially has you describe the effect you desire, and the GM telling you it's category and "Complexity" which goes from 1 to 6.
>You then tell him which secrets you want to use, each secret has a power of 1 to 6.
>Your GM then decides the "commonality" of the secrets to the spell
>The spell's total opposition is commonality + complexity (the number is in d6s)
>What you roll is your applicable skill & secrets (also in d6s)
>What you get in comparison to the opposition decides if the spell casts successfully, fails, injuries, casts better than intended ("better" is relative, you get more of what you asked for but it isn't always a good thing)
>Normally out of combat you can make the spells and test secrets for commonality safely so you know what is gonna happen when you actually cast it.
>Making the spell DURING combat means you don't know it's complexity & your secrets commonality, so it is a huge risk

A caster's spells are all those he has made, each spell costs a resource called "character points" which is a generic resource for skills + traits + incomes + spells + etc.

There is also a guideline for creating new spellcasting skills and defining what it can apply to, with some broad stroke terms of what spell applies to what.

The ones already in the game are the following:
Biology
Chemistry
Physics
Mathematics
History
Psychology
Espionage
Proprioception
Performance
Bureaucracy

How does this sound?

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>>44298373
9/10 b8 right there

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>>44298221
Honestly, Mosaïc has one of the best magic system in creativity terms while not really being complex. Also, the spellbooks are cool as fuck

>>44298238
>>44298373
>>44298849
Plus it doesn't overshadow the martial characters.

>>44298849
>>44298373
4e does not encourage creativity.

>>44298870
>In a way that's not free form and isn't overly complex

>>44298894

It's got an entire system for helping make improvised actions worth using in combat (The math isn't perfect but it's more effort than most systems put into it)

>>44298897
What are you talking about, the system sounds pretty simple and definitely doesn't count as free form.

>>44298894
>>44298906
Also, nothing is stopping you from making creative use of your powers. Not to mention, too much creative freedom in the hands of a player is a double edged sword. That's why wizards in 3.X have their bad reputation, after all.

>>44298906
In it's spell casting? Yeah, I really don't think so. 4e is good at several things, being a rigid system with defined rules for at will/encounter/daily powers is one of those strong points. This is at odds with a creative magic system.

4e takes the mystery and wonder out of magic, guts it in fact. It's worse than most editions of D&D (which aren't great for creativity magic).

If I want creativity I'm gonna play Ars Magica or Mage: The Ascension

>>44298934

>In it's spell casting? Yeah, I really don't think so.

Seriously, look at the DMG. It's a section on improvised actions in general (Including spellcasting) and how to make them rewarding but not overpowering.

>>44298922
I would not say "making creative use of your powers" is a creative magic system. The magic system itself is very restrictive compared to several games.

It's like saying because I can use a stick in many ways means the stick encourages my creativity. It does not, it can merely be used creatively. If being able to use something creatively is what we're gonna say makes "a creative magic system" then literally every system with magic qualifies.

>>44298612

Describe it

>>44298948
Yes I know what section you're talking about. I still do not see it as a "creative engine", especially for spell casting.

Unknown Armies has a pretty cool outlook on magic.

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I LOVE magic systems and have scoured high and low for the ones I like the most. I've seen most of them in the thread, hell yes.

It also depends on what kind of magic you are looking for, and I mean magic that fits your taste and the setting, not just 'not free form but not too complex' either. The quick spells and rituals is a good start though.

Here's what I'd recommend;
>Ars Magica
Excellent elemental verb + noun system that makes a lot of sense. Has both long rituals (any spell over a certain spell difficulty) and quick spells better suited for combat. Also hasa really long and great section that is an estimate about what each spell-level of each type can do. Enough so that if the rules don't specify, you can pretty easily make it yourself.

>Unknown Armies
One of my absolute favorites, though it is much more suited towards a mystical/occult style of magic. Settings meant to mimic real life or low fantasy work well with unknown armies. The magic here is shown as being 'postmodenr' and requires the user to embrace an insane paradox. They gain charges off of doing certain actions and lose them if they break a taboo of their school. It's hard to explain unless you read the rules but it is very solid.

>Don't Rest Your Head
This one isn't really 'magic' but with some simple tweaks you too can create your corrupting magic system! The original is about insomniacs that enter 'the mad city' where they get special madness talents. I've personally hacked this for fantasy/magical rules instead, which is great if you want a magic system that maddens the user and, eventually, turns them into a monster.

How am I so well researched? Because I was building a mega-RPG project that involved combining every magic system together into one.

>>44298221
You already posted it.

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This?

Dresden Files RPG

>>44298221
You literally just described
>>44298238
>D&D 4e.

>>44298672

GURPS sorcery.

Ritual path magic.