"Heres my character sheet and backstory" >it includes

>>44190296
The first one.By far.

If it's not snowflaking and isn't too poorly written it's enormously helpful as a GM. My only problem is when one player does the first and another does the second. So I have to juggle making use of all these things the player has given me and trying to get the other fucker engaged in the story.

>>44190296
The first one, obviously, just remind your player that brevity is the soul of wit.

I like the cut of the first one's jib but the second one will enjoy the campaign a lot more.

>>44190296
What's the point of this thread?
If I made a thread asking if a literal turd sandwich or a Michelin Starred chef preparing your favorite food was better people would call me a shitposter, and rightly so.

The first one. Worst case you can edit out anything too big and past characters that don't fit before approving it.

Why would option 2 ever be a viable choice?

>>44190347
>He doesn't like turd sandwiches
Get a load of this faggot. I bet he doesn't like something I don't like either.

>>44190296
If a player handed me the first one, it would be too beautiful, and I could not intentionally harm a hair on their families' head. Their PC becomes the center of the plot.
PC#2 gets generic PC treatment.

>>44190361
Because it means the DM won't have to deal with the player's history in what may already be a complicated campaign.

In all honesty, as a DM, I'd prefer the latter, because I'd rather players worry about the here-and-now instead of bugging me to include their poorly written backstories that they wrote entirely without consulting me.

Oh, you're the invincible leader of a mercenary company and the princess of the land has fallen in love with you? That's nice. Here, have a fucking egg necklace trinket and shut up.

The debate is useless. Option 1 and option 2 are both great in good players hand's.

As a DM i like to play option 2 because whatever, nobody has to know who i'm.
Whoever gives his family tree to his friends btw ?
Both are good and both are horrible.
Depends of the PC.

>>44190296
I like the first. I like it when my players give me npcs to kill/turn evil/torture/ love

File: upset yotsuba.jpg (11KB, 212x237px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 212x237px

>tfw DMs never tell me anything about the setting/plot hook before hand so I can make a character that fits
>sometimes when I ask what the campaign is going to be like they just say what edition it is
I really, really, really want to be a good player, but gosh darn it you guys I need something to work with here

>>44190842
I think family tree is a different item on the list than birthdays for friends and relatives

>>44190296
The second, because they both have like 70% odds of dying to the first kobold spear they run into. People can work on their motivation once they hit like level 3.

>>44190296

Depending on level, the relic is non-magical and the favors they are owed won't amount to anything game breaking. Otherwise, the first one is the obvious choice.

File: 1369877951927.jpg (64KB, 259x270px) Image search: [Google]

64KB, 259x270px

>>44190296
I once tried the first option, it was a Rogue-Trader campaign (characters are fairly high-powered when joining up) I was asked to be a tech-priest, figured I´d try and not be a generic toaster and make a toaster with dreams - wrote up an in-universe document listing previous employment and postings along with a quick letter from a previous commander to justify the character-path like they suggested in the book, ended up 2-3 pages long.

Apparently that coupled with being the only one to actually talk to another character (including chatting with the “mute girl”) was intimidating people and it was my fault the group fell apart.

Got messages telling me to get cancer and die afterwards, I´ve been Buck McWondergroin the mute barbarian in all my game since.

>>44192103

Not sure if we have all of the details here. Suffice it to say that if your group was uncomfortable with you in it, that wasn't a good match. You are better off without each other.

>>44192103
Anon, that should be the ultimate motivation to ALWAYS make fleshed out characters.
I don't think you get what you did there; You managed to preemptively torpedo That Group. You saved yourself hours of ballache, being dicked around and inevitable passive aggressive dickery.

Any group that falls apart due to one member actually playing the game is not a group you'd be having fun with, especially if you get shit from their insecure asses for it afterward.

Incidentally, was your little toaster brave, by any chance?

>>44190296
>references to previous characters they have played
Hell no. Hate when a player has their character refer to a previous character of theirs.

>>44190296
Completely off topic, but Orc girl is a cute

>>44190296
I mean, the first one is never going to be relevant.
>>44192276
>generic waifushit OC
>cute

>>44192143
The group fell apart due to the DM´s idea of storytelling being "you are on bridge" and half the player angsting in a corner and telling me to fuck off when I approched to say hello rather then going on adventure.

>>44192215
The reverse actually, plz no combat - another reason I was adhored apperently. (I did ask if it was going to be a RP heavy campaign, to which I was informed "yes")

In general I´ve given up attempting to be anything more then a generic character, best just go with bro-dwarf and axe people, anything beyond that just triggers drama.

>>44192235
One GM I used to play with used the same world for almost all of his games, so when the players were told that the next game was going to be taking place a few decades later one player decided to make his next character the child of his previous character. A little cliche sure, but it was a nice way for him to get involved in the character and for everyone else to kind of have a feel for them as well.

>>44190296

second

A simple character can become more complex, but a char. that starts complex is locked into those traits for the sake of roleplaying.

File: 1447619334383.gif (7KB, 270x172px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 270x172px

>tfw i always jot down a few paragraphs who my character is, how they acquired their skills and what their motivation for questing is
>in a group that doesnt include anything beyond their name and class
>between that and this thread i feel like im that guy with his gary stu

>>44190296
>GM asks for several pages of backstory
>"Heres my character sheet and backstory"
>"It includes a family tree, birthdays for close relatives and friends, periods of working at different jobs in their home city, a relic from their great-grand father, several stories of them doing good deeds and people owing them for it and references to previous characters they have played"
>2-4 pages with detailed information
>Dies on the first encounter
Everyfuckingtime

>>44190361
Because the player might not want to get all his family, loved ones, pets and acquaintances raped, tortured and killed by the GM in the first two sessions

>>44190296
Definitely the former.

Though the former can present problems of its own (as others have noted), the latter is just dull.

>>44190296
#1 is indicative of a demanding and self-absorbed player.
#2 is indicative of a detached and unimmersed player.

You can fix #2, but #1 is a poison.

>>44190296
>several stories of them doing good deeds and people owing them for it and references to previous characters they have played.

Fuck that.
You want favors from people you pay the price.

>>44191530
Passive aggressive GM, you're lucky to spot that even before starting the game, just leave.

>>44191530
I fucking hate Johnny Tightlips kind of GM

>>44192366
>(I did ask if it was going to be a RP heavy campaign, to which I was informed "yes")
I'd still say you dodged a bullet if you get lied to that blatantly.

>>44191530
Assume generic; make an easily adaptable character. There are poor and rich everywhere, people will always have friends, families, enemies, struggles, etc. You really shouldn't need specific setting details to write a decent backstory.

>>44192570
In my experiance, ask most DM's and they'll tell you that regardless, only to throw you into the kobolt meatgrinder first session.

>>44192570
That happened to me with Vampire, first and not the last time I got tricked with wod which led me to never ever try it again, a supposedly RP heavy game turned to be a combat all the fucking time game, my character was not prepared for that at all, ST didn't let me change my character to fit the game, so I left.

I like to just start with a bare bones, then not down random facts on a sheet. If the character survives, I'll fill in the framework as I go.

Not that anyone but the GM is ever interested in shit like "where knife-ears mcbombchucker grew up" or "the halfling got played like a cheap violin by the popular girl when he was a kid".

File: I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.png (182KB, 420x421px) Image search: [Google]

182KB, 420x421px

>>44192534
>>44192561
They're not being secretive or passive-aggressive, I don't think, it's just that a lot of the time they're busy with helping other players and what have you.
This latest GM I'm talking to for example, I know he's a good guy because he's my best friend, but he just kind of ignored the question. I'm not sure if it's because he doesn't have the details of the campaign actually thought out yet or if he really is being tightlipped... I'm not sure what to say.
I also feel bad because in the campaign I'm running now, I didn't really provide my players with very much information beforehand so I feel like a hypocrite. I don't think they mind very much, this being their first game and all, but I wonder if they wouldn't be more invested in roleplaying if I hadn't helped them out more than I did.

>>44192594
This is what I always do, but it always upsets me a little bit that motivations other than a relatively generic desire to help others or "adventure" or seek glory never come up. Not like they would anyway because I'm terrible at being the center of attention but I feel like I could be doing a much better job somehow
maybe it's just my problem, I've never seen anybody else with issues like this

>>44191530
I'm sorry, anon. Please understand that most GMs are used to players not giving a shit and treating our stories as things to derail for amusement; our settings as lists of things to kill and fuck with; our game night as excuses to make the same tired jokes and banter with friends, rather than actually play what we're here for.

We want players like you, but we're too hurt and too jaded to believe you exist anymore.

>>44192881
I have only ever had two GMs who gave a shit about backstories. All the others struggle to even remember what class I am let alone my backstory. I used to write two page special snowflake backstories but it's pointless. If you can't say it in a paragraph it's probably too complex to give a shit about.

Though I do remember that first GM who actually included backstories. Side characters I made up on a whim became major NPCs. Said he created the entire campaign story out of intertwining everyone's backstories. Goddamn I miss that GM...

>>44192881
I fucking hate that kind on GMs because several past experiences
>Me "what kind of campaign is this going to be?"
>GM "Not going to say you"
>Me "What kind of monsters we're going to see?"
>GM "Not going to say you"
>Ok, roll rogue
>Game is Eberron, constructs everyfucking where
>Different GM same situation
>Roll scout
>Undead, undead everywhere
>Different GM same situation
>Roll ranger with FE: Orcs
>No orcs, never
Fucking fuck this shit, also ignoring the "no, your character doesn't fit in this campaign and I'm telling you just now after you fucking made the whole sheet, what character will fit? not going to tell you".

>>44190347
yeah, option #1 is pretty turd sandwich

As a DM, I reward characters who have backstories, and roleplay. Usually with unique items and more clout.

And to be completely honest here, when a monster or caster targets people with save or die effects, my preference will always be killing off the generic PC, over the one with a developed backstory.

>>44192455
Your fault for spending so much time with a 1st level character's backstory.

>>44192930
It is so sad. I feel so sorry for all of RPG players, such shame fills my d20 heart. I hope I'll sometime, somewhere land with DM or player as noble as you, kind sir.

>>44193163
This will only distance the unengaged players further. The ones with 10 page backstories who speak in accents and are never OOC don't need rewards, they already know how to and enjoy playing. You need to do things to engage the uninterested and make them see RPing isn't so hard.

>>44192561
I've only taken that approach once. It was for a short D&D 3E campaign, I told the players in advance they would have about 3-5 sessions and that was it, no continuations, no leveling up, and if they party-wiped that was the end. They made 10th level characters that covered all the party roles, a decent spread of magic items, a few connections between each other. I had them each make one back-up character and told them that if both characters died, they would have to play an NPC for the rest of the adventure.

I sent them to Barovia.

>>44193313
>The old "le tricked you" strategy
You must feel so smart, I also bet you think you're the only one who came up with a similar idea.

>>44193376
I might me missing something here, but what's so "le tricked you" about him sending them to Ravenloft for a one shot potentialy high fatality game? From what I understand that's pretty par for course for that setting.

>>44193376
The problem with running a Ravenloft game is that everyone knows about Ravenloft. Players who know the setting will INVARIABLY make characters to circumvent the setting's pitfalls. They'll know what magic items to buy, what feats to take, and what monsters to specialize in killing.

Also, the module was designed for a group of level 6-9 characters. I think letting them tackle it at level 10 was more than generous compensation for catching them off-guard.

>>44193531
Call it your special homebrew setting "Crow's Suite" instead. They won't see it coming.

I've been following Saitama's 10 word limit for backstories and it works.

>>44193376
Its not like there was any lying. Not telling them its ravenloft isn't really a trick, it's just a surprise, telling them it was going to be something else would be a trick

I keep it to about 1-2 paragraphs for appearance, 1 for personality, and 3 for backstory.

File: shrug.jpg (92KB, 384x313px) Image search: [Google]

92KB, 384x313px

>>44190361

If you're running the Tomb of Horrors.

File: wizard.jpg (70KB, 600x943px) Image search: [Google]

70KB, 600x943px

>>44190296
Old School says - second is better.

Also, it is your sacrosanct duty as a GM to murder first character within first five minutes of the game.

>>44193928
>Not writing a 10 page long backstory for a PC that more than probably is going to die on the first encounter 2 minutes after starting the game
bad form

>>44192455
Ya need to modulate your backstories bro! Plug n' play them!

>>44193694
It's 20 words.

>>44190296
Can't say I rightly give a shit on the content of a player's backstory, but if it's longer than, say 3 pages I'm not going to read it.

>>44190296
The first.
Personal history is something that expands. That's everyone they knew and everything they did -it's not everyone they will meet or everything they will do.

The usual faggots who think otherwise wouldn't for a second agree that the life they've lived in every moment before the next invalidated them from ever experiencing or changing after that.

People who start with as little as possible rarely become more. That's the reality that makes the Power Gamer Fallacy as wishful thinking. They can plan out and play whatever they like, but when it's time to make an a hard choice against one of those two priorities they'll choose efficiency over interest.

tl;dr: Every person drawing breath has everything the first example lists in their own past. They still think they're people.

>>44193163
GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaay

>>44192427
Pigs love garbage and scraps.
It's not a bad thing for them, but if you'd rather eat something else that doesn't make you arrogant.

>>44193239
GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaay

>>44193163
LOL!
How DARE YOU, sir!?

>>44192930
They could probably spare you the wasted effort and go back to HALO instead.

File: killing someone.gif (256KB, 422x233px) Image search: [Google]

256KB, 422x233px

>>44190296
They're both shit for different reasons:

#1 will have a nuclear fucking meltdown if anything bad ever happens to their character, even if it's just shit luck of the dice.

#2 Doesn't give a fuck about the game in the first place.

The kind of player you want is a happy medium between 1 and 2.

File: behelit_skull_by_nullslayer.jpg (251KB, 741x1100px) Image search: [Google]

251KB, 741x1100px

>>44190572
Muh daemon

>>44192366
Stop playing with shit.

In fact, Get off your ass right now and get on the gamefinder thread.

>>44193033
Fuck you, I told you cocksuckers it was going to be a dungeon heavy game with few humanoids and a good number of constructs, undead and slimes.

Bitch came in with a fucking ninja.

>>44195568
No, Andrew, you said fucking nothing, not only that you said that you weren't going to tell us shit, so we had to came up with characters for a non descript campaign, then be fucked because half our classes didn't work in that enviroment. Don't try to be the victim, you faggot.

>>44192383
One time I had a character that was super fun to play and messed around with magic and potions and shit. The group fell apart but later the dm said he wanted to run another so i made a character that was the adopted creation of my first. He loved it.

>>44192455
That's why you also provide detailed backstories for two or three relatives as well. You hardly even need a call to adventure with them, since they'll probably want to avenge their fallen relative.

File: popcorn.gif (568KB, 200x136px) Image search: [Google]

568KB, 200x136px

>>44193033
>>44195568
>>44195626

>>44196118
I dunno, one of my cousins is in the military but I'm not about to sign up if he dies to avenge the poor bugger or anything.

>>44196530
Would you go on an adventure to avenge your brother if he got shanked in a dark alley by a kobold?

>>44192455

That's why i develop this shit as I go along

As a DM, I don't read backstories. I'm just not gonna do it.

I will sit down and talk through a character with you, of course, but I don't want to know your entire fucking life story. I don't want to read three pages of you describing shit about your family and friends that all exist off in a different country we'll never see, or how you want to describe epic battles and escapes from death and danger all before the game starts at level 1.

I want to know who your character is, where they come from, and why you're there in the first session. If there's anything important, like the fact that you live locally and know some people around town, that's fine, but I don't care about the intricate fiddly details. You can works those out during the game, they're not important at the beginning.

More importantly, when a player shows up with 3 pages of backstory, it means they're going to throw an absolute tantrum when I tell them they have to change a detail because they didn't read the setting material.

>>44190324
The trick is, you use the person who put effort into their shit as party triggers for events, I.E. BBEG just kidnapped sister or cultists sacrificed best friend, etc.

The ones who half-assed it, you add in as hired mercenaries who decided to band together for a while since it would make it easier to get shit done.

Unless they're good at inserting themselves once the game begins. Then they insert themselves and you roll with it.

File: 1441499016082.jpg (157KB, 1100x975px) Image search: [Google]

157KB, 1100x975px

I read my players backstory, it gives me ideas to play around with when I asspull for the next session or mission.

Currently on the feral/feudal home world of one of my players, it's been a lot of talking with nobles and alpha legion shit kicking off.
about to wrap it up, would it be wrong for me to put them against two chaos marines?

The second, because the first will inevitably explode upon contact with the other players.

One or two sentences, maybe with a unique story hook in there, is the best.

File: 640px-Heroesjourney.svg.png (50KB, 640x643px) Image search: [Google]

50KB, 640x643px

I prefer the second. Because I improv most of my shit, and I recently did a session where I swear a player was Old Man Hendersonning or Retconning his character.

First he was like
>Simple farm boy pulled away to do his destiny. Love interest didn't want him to leave the farm. Destiny wrapped up, and now he is a gladiator in retirement, not knowing anything else.

And now he is like
>No DM, I met the love interest in the knightly order that took me away from my farm! The villains can't catch me in a lie if you don't know my character's backstory!

I swear, I was just looking forward to seeing a retired hero get caught up in a world changing quest because he was bored. Now I don't know what to expect.

>>44190296
The second. its your playing that makes the character, there is no point in ultra detailed backgrounds if the player plays averagely- which is extremely likely if he spent that much time thinking and effort on it.

>>44196667
>As a DM, I don't care about how much my players are invested

>>44196654
Tell that to the DM that asked you for several pages of backstory

>>44197390
That's not remotely true. I want my players to be very much invested. I just don't want them wasting effort in places where it does no good.

Writing 3 pages of backstory and family tree before you even read the setting information is a waste of time. Inventing a bullshit character who only exists to have more things to say about themselves than the rest of the party is a waste of time.

I want my players to be playing someone they understand, someone they actually have put a bit of thought into. "This is my family tree and I'm descended from this and these artifacts are part of my lineage" is not an investment into a character. "Why is my character here, and what are his opinions and priorities, and how are these things shaped by the events he experiences over the course of the campaign" is investment into a character.

>>44197390

>Not caring about fanfic about shit the game will never cover and is narratively untouchable = not caring about how much the players are invested

File: ZachBraff.jpg (543KB, 1080x1080px) Image search: [Google]

543KB, 1080x1080px

>>44192427
>i jot
>multiple paragraphs
>jot
>who what when where why how
>jot

They are both terrible.
The first one is just, so much pointless information to me, because I'll never make a story about them. They might have a moment to shine, but that will be about the character growing in the now rather than GW teir fluff.

The second is just hard to work with when you deal with players and you try to build a campaign around these players that you have no idea their motivation, group motivation, or desire to be on this quest. Then of course they just totally do something out of left field and say "Yeah, my character is like this now."

I hate choosing one or the other situations because they are both terrible.

>>44198364
Do you not know what jot means, or something?

jot
/jät/
verb


1. write (something) quickly.
"when you've found the answers, jot them down"

>>44190296
The first one cause the player is doing part of your job for you

>>44190296
The latter, I have spent years getting blood from that particular stone. I know how to motivate the man with no backstory. The man with too much backstory tends to be a selfish lover player, and wants to hog the spotlight making him a pain in my ass.

>>44195064
Found the shitposter

>>44199327
Not the guy you're talking to, but:

You "jot" down a phone number. You jot down a license plate number. You jot down an additional item on your grocery list.

You don't fucking "jot" down MULTIPLE FUCKING PARAGRAPHS.

>>44199687
Maybe you don't.

Paragraphs don't have to be enormous. So long as the ideas are concise, you can write down a simple, couple-paragraph backstory in a few minutes.

>>44199388
So he's too big for you anon?

File: 1412153083317s.jpg (7KB, 250x250px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 250x250px

I got a question since we are talking about those players who make way too much backstory.

I was thinking of making a character that over archs systems and games. But here is the catch, the character itself is bunthulu. It appears as a harmless little rabbit that takes control of my "PC"s mind and acts with the party gaining XP as normal, and the only flavor of every PC I have is that they all own variants of a companion rabbit or similar that they never want to be too far away from each other.

So literally this rabbit does nothing in combat and when a PC dies, bunthulu tries to escape the combat to find another suitable servant whom the party meets later and oddly remembers their past escapades when not being on them. Bunthulu will always take on another fur color/breed to not draw TOO MUCH suspicion.

The end game of all of this is making bunthulu a BBG in a personal campaign after gaining various experiences and growing in power that is unbeatable and unstoppable, and the only way to defeat the fully awakened bunthulu is making him forget so he has to go back on his journies and make new experiences.

This is all just super fucking stupid and pointless?

>>44191646
this, all of this

File: it depends.jpg (34KB, 425x340px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 425x340px

>>44190296

File: 1377367256601.jpg (76KB, 831x445px) Image search: [Google]

76KB, 831x445px

>>44191646

File: 102313_1.1.jpg (75KB, 900x600px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 900x600px

>>44199388
>I can't handle players
Then don't be a GM.

>>44201350
>Have you tried not playing dnd
1. this happens in many other systems too
2. OP said character class, so right off the bad it eliminates a fuckton of systems where they either don't have class, or don't call them classes

>>44190296
Both are equally horrible. The first has waaaay too much detail, and I get the suspicion the player would try to finagle every advantage out of the people owing them, as well as call in their previous characters. The second is someone who obviously gives zero shits about role-playing beyond mechanical roles.

I have a question, OP. Would you rather have your genitals smashed with a sledgehammer or covered in burning hot motor oil?

>>44201391
>other systems
Name me a game where you have leveles, kobolds and easy death for starting characters. And as far as I care, it could be [archetype] and [generich archetype activity], but OP didn't, since "classes" are part of RPG slang.

So cut the crap and stop playing D&D

>>44192103
Uh...what was your character's personality, and what did you say to them in-character?

>>44190325
Whenever someone reminds me that brevity is the soul of wit, I remind them that the character who said that is a notorious windbag.

>>44201496
>Name me a game where you have leveles, kobolds and easy death for starting characters.
I said "that happens", by that I was referring to "dying like a bitch on first session" not "dying to a kobold with a spear at level 1 as a dnd character"

>And as far as I care, it could be [archetype] and [generich archetype activity], but OP didn't, since "classes" are part of RPG slang.
Except this is bullshit. classes are very rare in TTRPGs, except for dnd.

You are trying to talk out of both sides of your mouth, claiming OP totally meant totally generic slang when using dnd specific terms but that anyone else using dnd terms clearly is a scrub for playing dnd.

Also, it might shock you but I don't play dnd, at all, it is a shit game. But I am actually AWARE of it.

>>44193163
GAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaay

>>44192103
Do you still play Rogue Trader?
You do sound like a player I'd like to see aboard.

>>44201174
The basic concept (cute, mind-controlling bunny) is neat. You're trying to do waaay too much with it, though.

>>44199687
It's not exactly hard if it's basic stuff and you already know what you want

>>44201875
I kind of figured, I wanted to do this for all of my characters until I got sick of it because I fucking love rabbits.

So i started doing mental gymnastics so I can keep it kind of coherent when all of my PCs end up having bunnies that mind control them.

>>44201496
>stop playing games that people actually have groups for!

Oh, you sweet innocent child. There is no hope. Nobody actually plays GURPS.

>>44201997
And who would want to play a game that sounds like slang for gassy burps?

>>44201496
>Name me a game where you have leveles, kobolds and easy death for starting characters

Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG, the 0-Level Funnel.

>>44190296
that artist sure isn't subtle about his magical realm

>>44190296
>Socks, boots, thick sweater
>Nothing covering her groin though, only reason we are not seeing her pussy is because her leg is in the way
stealth lewd

Both are fine, but also both are signs of trouble. I've got two of the latter and they're murderhobos, and two of the former and one is still a murderhobo while also expecting me to cater to his inane backstory of being a master assassin. This last one is actually a good player, while being the former.

>>44193033
>Different GM same situation
>Roll ranger with FE: Orcs
>No orcs, never

You have absolutely no idea of what you're going to face, so you go with one of the most circumstantial mechanics ever?

At least, with rogue, you were unfortunate enough that your DM purposefully choose a creature type you can't do nothing about. Commit suicide as subtly as you can and reroll.

But Ranger with FE: Orcs? AFTER the previous event? Shame on you.

>>44196667
> As a DM, I don't allow for player agency. I'd be a writer but I'm too fucking stupid.

>>44190361
I find that I rarely stick with what ideas I start with for a character in full at the start of a campaign; it's easier to have a blank space to sort of work into through a few sessions and figure out who this character is and what you want them to do.

Also, if your backstory is so cluttered, you lose a lot of connection to what's happening NOW - this new party you're with, the friends you're supposed to be making. What if they try to use those favors to ease things in their campaign like little wishes? Or they refuse to do something because they have their relatives to think about? Option 2 isn't the best alternative, but I would rather not go into such insane depth as 1.

I like to come up with a rough idea for a character that is easily adjusted -- no more than a paragraph or two. Then I develop the character further as the campaign progresses (or until the character dies)

>>44190296
Actually, both are bad. You need to go half-way with it. This way, you leave enough room to improvise over, to work with.

Besides, every time I have seen someone with such a detailed backstory, it got retconned because "it doesn't fit with the character that well".

> Leave 80% of the family tree up to the GM, keeping only two or three noteworthy individuals.
> Like a curriculum, only state the work experience that better fits your actual position / position you wish to acquire.
> Don't stat the relic. Yet.
> Keep the stories vague so that you can work them in whenever it is beneficial to the story.

This is the same flaw a lot of GM exhibits: underpreparation and overpreparation. Don't do either: Give yourself tools, a "good idea" of what happened / will happen and what is REALLY important then leave yourself (and others) room to work themselves in.

And make yourself a rival, a nemesis or someone that tormented you. Maybe you'll end up working with or against them. Maybe you'll face someone who'll trigger some reactions you learned by displaying similar traits. Who knows?

>>44203445
>>44203543
Heh, jinx!

>>44203123

How the merciful flying FUCK is writing backstory "player agency"? Agency is the ability for a player to freely act. Backstory is just some fanfic you write before the game starts and you have the opportunity to act.

>>44190296

First one better; second one gets cannon fodder duty because they're written as an NPC, and not a PC.

This sort of thing matters, you know.

>>44190361

When you need to churn out a bunch of crappy characters fast because you're playing CoC or something that has a high bodycount: they're the T-34 of characters, and maybe if you're lucky one of them will end up not dead after the first few encounters and quickly build a backstory up with their in-game deeds.

Option 1 can be roleplayed effectively

Option 2's characterization can be done during the session, may their actions describe the character rather than any origin they may/may not have

so >>44190842

>>44190361
Out of all the games and groups I've played with, almost everyone at the table but like one guy uses the second formula.

>>44190296
>it includes a family tree,
Good. It means the character isn't an island, and lets me populate NPCs and have some idea of what they're doing now for the character to maybe discover sometimes if it's relevant.
>birthdays for close relatives and friends,
Never gonna use it but okay.
>periods of working at different jobs in their home city,
You still only get one bonus skill from your background, but having more contacts to work with is fun.
>a relic from their great-grand father,
Gonna ask the player who has the relic now. It's not going to be the player, for balance reasons, unless we're starting at a level where it's reasonable.
>several stories of them doing good deeds and people owing them for it
Good, sets up the kind of character he wants to play then.
>and references to previous characters they have played.
As long as they're from the same world, that's great. Continuity makes things feel more real.

>Is [class] and likes to [generic class activity]
That applies to everyone, if that's all I get I'd ask a bunch of questions and see where things go. The previous character thinks in terms of relationships so maybe this guy just hasn't got whatever works for him as something in his mind that's relevant to backgrounds yet.

>>44199327
Quickly in this context means that the amount of content is small, not that you don't bother with calligraphy.

>>44199878
>>44201921
If it takes more than a second, the word "jot" doesn't apply. Then you're just writing. Even a full sentence would be stretching the word to the point that it's kind of wrong.

>>44190296
First one.
I might not read it right away, or remember it, but at least you're building a foundation for your character.

>>44196710
Please not. I don't want to have to save another sister. I don't want to see my friends die again.
I want to visit them between adventures to have some downtime and tell them stories, even if it's just in my head.

The whole "hired mercenary" thing didn't work out for my group either. The one character who payed those mercenaries used that as a way to try and dominate the other characters.
That was mostly because he was That Guy though.

>>44196710
>The trick is, you use the person who put effort into their shit as party triggers for events, I.E. BBEG just kidnapped sister or cultists sacrificed best friend, etc.
Please no, that is the cheapest shit ever

>>44196710
>The trick is, you use the person who put effort into their shit as party triggers for events, I.E. BBEG just kidnapped sister or cultists sacrificed best friend, etc.
You can fuck off and never come back.

File: 1450177590154.jpg (50KB, 201x259px) Image search: [Google]

50KB, 201x259px

>>44195317
Characters are best with a few details that can be filled in later. Go in session 1 with some ambiguous shit like
>I want vengence on the Elf that killed my Father
>My family needs me earning money so they can survive
>An horiffic event at night has led me to fearing shadows
>To attain adulthood, my tribe sent me to find an ancient axe
This way, DM can make cool shit for you while having a character that can be played however you want.

Better in what way?

I mean, objectively the first is just more fleshed out from the word go, sure.

But I've had PCs who just didn't have the time or couldn't be fucked, and make use of an open background to work in new elements to the campaign. So in practice they can both end up being the same thing.

>>44196710
Please no.

Shit like this happening constantly is why my group is always orphans with no friends or family.

Anytime we make a backstory that hints at him being more than just "I saw him on the sidewalk I guess," there's a 100% chance that guy will get murederraped by Orcs or throat slit by bandits or some shit.
Most of the time in front of the party and the only thing we're allowed to do is stand there and watch, then be sad as the orcs/bandits walk away.

Not even joking at that last part. The DM doesn't even let us roll dice when we come to the first session of any game with a friendly NPC in anyone's backstory, and the entire first session is just based around using PC's backstories as a hit list. And the DM fucking bitches and moans these days because everyone's edgy friendless orphans.

>>44193694
Interesting, tell me more?

>>44193163
You're the worst.

>>44190361
The first one seems like too much detail, honestly. It stinks of a player too invested in their own character and backstory to be willing to give other players time in the spotlight, let alone the extensive family tree and trail of good deeds and favors easily turning into "I have NPC resources, and you're a bad DM for not giving them to me." The first is potentially disruptive; the second is merely potentially boring.

>>44196667
my nigga

>>44203123
Tell that to the player that wrote a damn novel before we even started.

>>44205034
A relic doesn't need to be something useful, anon. it could be some junk like a non-magical amulet or an otherwise completely normal sword that happens to have sentimental value to the PC which makes for cheap and easy motivation later on when you steal it.

>>44207543

Maybe if you didn't spend 5 minutes writing up your character's backstory at the table, I wouldn't feel a twinge of guilt when I make a Medusa petrify you, and crumble you into 1,000 pieces.

I don't have time as a player to do option 1 so 2.

>>44207873
Jokes on you, I'm not going to take that five minutes to write a backstory. If you weren't paying attention when I took <1 minute to explain who my character is and where they're coming from then writing it out is hardly going to help.

Option 1 is hogging the spotlight before it even starts shining on anything. Turn it down a few notches or go write your novel.

Option 2 seems like not giving a shit and just being there to throw numbers at numbers. Put in some effort or go play videogames.

But if I have to choose I'll go with 2 because we can build up from there, together. With 1 whatver I have to adapt to fit the campaign will cause the player to have a hissy fit.

>>44190331
underrated comment.
A player getting too invested into their character is likely to throw fits for completely obscure reasons. Alternatively they'll get disappointed that X part of their backstory never came up during the entire campaign.

>>44207873
And you just lost a player if you single me out like that. Hope the next one will write you the novel you're looking for then juggle your balls under the table as you read it.

>>44208826

I hope they do, as you cry and leave my table, wondering why you're still alone.

>>44208846
Who the fuck would want to play at your table?

>>44208876

My friends.

We've gaming with the same group of people for about seven years now, and it's great.

My friends aren't the extremes like OPs pic, but no one is giving me terrible characters like Bob the fighter.

>>44203088
A good GM should try and make every character have a chance to shine.

The GM should've thrown in a plot hook involving Orcs to let the ranger do his thing for a little bit.

>>44208905
>friends
>seven years
>same gaming group

You may not realize it but anybody here who has been gaming for a long time knows that you didn't just paint a very pretty picture of yourself and the people in your group. Both of them.

>>44208970

Whatever. You're not putting yourself on the line, so I don't care what you think.

I am happy, I game, and that's that.

>>44209003
What line are you referring to?

>>44190425
This has been my experience in the past as a PC a couple of times. I always put a lot of effort into my characters, so in a couple of groups I've accidentally become the MC of the story amongst the people that put in no effort at all. Makes me feel responsible somehow.

>>44192427
I feel you anon.

>>44192103
Man, I wish you could play with my group. It's fairly small but we all put a lot of effort into our characters and try to interact when possible. Good luck out there Buck.

>>44193033
Joke's on you. You should've picked a wizard and derailed the shit out of his campaign.

>>44196667
>>44197453
You made me feel a little bit better about the way I create characters anon. I was beginning to think even my middle ground effort as you described was too much between this thread and some of the groups I've played with.

>>44194588
It's 10 words in the manga.

>>44210322
Oh, huh.
I figured it might have been something like that but I didn't think they'd change something so inconsequential.

>>44207607
>hich makes for cheap and easy motivation later on when you steal it.
Don't do this.

>>44206377
One of the reasons Magical Burst is great is because it has a great big table of these that you can roll on. Or a few of them, rather, for different aspects. Puts a minimum threshold on the quality of your characters.

>>44208970
I don't understand. Anon has long-term friends who really enjoy gaming together and creating fairly well-developed characters. Why is that bad? Are you, mayhaps, jelly?

>>44211099
>>44205892
>I don't ever want to be at risk of losing anything

>>44211604
Punishing players for giving you a good backstory to work with is dumb, and "lel I take it away" is the shallowest and most retarded possible way to use that backstory. If you think that's what you should be doing with these details, you're a terrible GM.

>>44211575
I'm gonna second this question. I didn't follow when I was reading but didn't want to bother asking. Now that someone already has I want to know.

>>44205088
Writing down a phone number can take more than a few seconds. Usually upwards of three. Sometimes more if the person you're getting it from is slow or hard to understand.

>>44190347
Michelin ? Like the tires ?

>>44209211
not him; it's an idiom, mate

>>44211575
>>44211650
If you've somehow managed to play with the same exact group of people for 7 years without real life eventually getting in the way of anybody - be it because of career or family obligations - then what we most likely what we have here is a group of people going nowhere fast. Either that or they haven't graduated yet.

InB4 the usual claims of having a 6 figure salary and a wife and kids.

>>44213245
I think that's pretty unfounded. You don't know how often they play, how close together they live, how many of them there are etc. etc.

Pretty baseless accusation lad.

>>44213276

Now that I think about it, the guy was probably just lying about having a solid group for 7 years in the first place. Like you said: we don't know anything about him so I'll just levy judgement based on his claim of having the same group for the last 7 years. Chances are he's lying, and if he's not, then his parents must be very loving and patient people to let him still live in the house playing games of pretend for 7 years.

>>44213356
I mean, even then he still may not be. Having the same group for 7 years doesn't even mean they consistently play with all of them together. I'm sure life gets in the way and certain people play and don't play at times. I'm basing this off of my own experiences infact.

>>44192103
>mute girl
Did that mute girl happen to be a Psyker and look a lot like Spaghetti-tan?

>>44210001
What do you play?

>>44213543
Mixed stuff. D20 systems mostly, a few systems relying on only D6 for quick sessions, and other odd games.

>>44213578
I might be interested to at least take a look, maybe join, if you don't mind.

>>44213662
Well, I said I wish you could join my group cause we play in person. Sorry man.

>>44211646
>Punishing players for giving you a good backstory to work with is dumb

Yes, let's punish the player by engaging their backstory so as to give them stake in the coming challenges.

>and "lel I take it away" is the shallowest and most retarded possible way to use that backstory

It's funny how you can boil down any GM action to ~5 words, the first being "lel," and it sound retarded.

But no, by all means, enlighten me with all the ideas you have in mind for using a backstory item who's primary descriptor is "useless trinket" that doesn't involve "someone is trying to take/has taken the trinket" or "the trinket actually isn't useless."

>>44192103
That really isn't your fault though.

>>44213731
>engaging their backstory
>"it got stolen!"
That's not engaging it. That's treating backstory elements as a binary; either you have it or don't. Engaging the relic would depend on the nautre of the relic itself, but bringing up the relic's history and organizations that might be interested in it would be a good start. Considering what powers it might have beyond as a symbol would be useful too; even if it doesn't have mechanical magic it could have narrative magic.

>It's funny how you can boil down any GM action to ~5 words, the first being "lel," and it sound retarded.
You can do it to any GM action, but it only remains an accurate description if the action was retarded in the first place.

>"someone is trying to take/has taken the trinket" or "the trinket actually isn't useless."
Uselessness isn't necessarily an inherent feature of the item. It can have use. What's more, it clearly has relevance to the player and his bloodline. If nothing else, you can have a relative be interested in it without just using their 25 levels in Rogue to slip into the party's camp and steal it during the night.

>>44190296
The experiences I've had with the first type is often better than what I've had with the second, so I guess I'd prefer that. However, it honestly comes down the player in question. When I DM, even though it's been a while, I usually just tell people to write as much as they want, and then we just work it out from there. It's a collaborative effort, after all.

>>44211755
It's also the name of a book in which you can find the addresses of good restaurants.

>>44213802
>the relic's history and organizations that might be interested in it

So "someone is trying to take/has taken the trinket."

>narrative magic

You can just call it a macguffin, anon, it's okay, you're among friends here. Also "the trinket isn't actually useless."

>you can have a relative be interested in it

Because that also isn't someone trying to take it.

>without just using their 25 levels in Rogue to slip into the party's camp and steal it during the night.

Gosh, anon, you should get a job at a movie theatre with all this projecting you're doing.

>>44214100
"someone tries to take it" is not the same as "you [the GM] steal it".

>>44190296
I like to play to find out the characters stories,this way if they die at a low lvl it's not like I or the players wasted time on writing out some huge novel. It is way more satisfying to get lvl 10 and have a cool backstory from the ADVENTURES you took part in, not ones you made up at the beginning.

>>44214130
What the fuck kind of series of events do you think is occurring in my games? "I, the GM, come down from the Heavens and pluck the item from your helpless form and cast it across the land." Obviously the guy who stole it is "someone," and obviously they're trying to take it.

Also obvious is that you're hung up on this idea that the only way you can steal stuff from the party is to just GM fiat it out of their inventory. Did a past GM touch your gear inappropriately or something, anon?

>>44212226
Yeah, it means risking something, what risk was he referring to?

>>44190347
That metaphor's shit, for sure.

>>44209940
Myself as well. It's a buy-in process: people should get what they're after.

Sometimes things change: the 2's find themselves committed to a perspective and get proactive or the 1's drift away and get comfortable just doing their thing mechanically while they wait for a motivation to bite them on the ass.

In my experience age is a real factor. Younger players want to play "GTA with dice" and that's not a bad thing if they can rein it in when it's time to be subtle. Older players tend to want to be someone acting in some specific purpose, but sometimes get up their own asses about their motivations -you can see this pretty regularly on /tg/ when someone's trying to justify the "Goodness" of an action that'll lead to direct and undeniable suffering on the part of someone undeserving.

One problem with getting too self-righteous about wanting type #2 is that if the campaign's mediocre it won't be worth remembering. No adventures of real note will happen and the generic party of generic heroes having generic wanderings around the known world will be utterly forgettable.

Want an easy example? I bet everyone here's played World of Warcraft.

Without researching anything think about how many subplots you remember -not the big-deal shit like the Fall of the Lich King, but the stuff you did as you leveled.
Maybe some of it's still kinda there?
Try and remember individual quests. Specific mini-bosses or quest NPC's. Starting to draw blanks?
That's mediocre homebrew writ large for being both almost without PC impact and for spending 90% of it's time in "Act 2" problems -always contested, never resolved.
Type #1's can clutter up a setting, but having someone at least partially invested in _something_ is better than wallowing in the great-big-WGAF of generic fantasy.