Pathfinder General /pfg/

>>43989129
First for I want to marry a Qlippoth!

Second for Qlippoths are meme outsiders

>>43989204
That's what makes them so evil.

>>43989204
Memes are the DNA of the soul.

>>43989204
Nth for Qlippoth as official /pfg/ mascot

>>43989311
More like the DNA of society.

I plan to rob a bank vault in my pathfinder game. The vault is more of a storage room, with loads of random crap in it, but there are some extremely valuable items in it. My plan is as follows:
-Cast mirror image
-Cast invisibility
-Cast freedom of movement
-Summon eagles or other fast monster capable of grabbing shit
-Cast teleport to get into the vault (I am certain that there are no tele-blocking wards or other traps since I have been in there and cast detect magic around)

-Order eagles/other summons to grab the magic items
This is my problem, I don't know if I'll be able to get hold of the items fast enough. I feel that the guard of the vault (a magical beast that can shoot laser beams and shit) will be able to start attacking me too fast. I'll probably die immediately as well if the beast gets a full attack on me.

-Teleport out with the items

So, are there any ways to quickly bring the valuable items to me whilst minimizing the risk for retaliation.

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Is there any reason NOT to take Discipline Focus (Elemental Flux) on a Gunsmoke Mystic?

Is it worth taking levels of Assassin if you have low int? Is Death attack useless without a good Int modifier?

>>43989606
Why would you take levels of Assassin when Slayers and Ninjas exist.

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>>43989592
Dude, just don't play an assassin or vanilla rogue
You have options

>>43989624
>>43989695
Its for my cohort whos restricted on what he can take, which I'm fine with

>>43989705

Assassins are usually worse at fighting than base core rogues. I wouldn't, mate.

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>>43989725
I was worried about that; pure rogue it is, then

>>43989592
I guess if you don't use elemental flux it would be a pretty bad feat choice.

Qlippoth a cute

>>43990187
>implying qlippoth are cuter than angels, elementals, mephits, genies, demons, devils, oni, or any outsider that isn't daemons

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>>43990187
I think this is the cutest qlippoth.

>>43990352
Look at that big anime eye.

>>43989575
This is why Casters are the most bullshit classes ever and why 3.PF is shit

>>43990352
>Yamasoth puts some of the people he transforms into his harem

>>43990309

I think we can all agree that Azata are the cutest of the Outsiders.

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>>43990434
>Fighterfags mad that they can't do level appropriate shit.

>>43990629
>generic elves
>cuter then div, elementals, and pretty much everything else
>and especially qlippoth
try again nerd

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>>43990673

>He doesn't like pure light assuming the form of regal, perfect humanoids
>He doesn't like his girls with butterfly wings
>He doesn't like his girls as living fire with fat tits of molten rock.

>>43990629
That isn't how you spell Agathion anon

>>43990629
Azata are the redditors of the outer planes.

>>43990434
>This is why Casters are the most bullshit classes ever and why 3.PF is shit
Because in the game about fantasy superheroes, there are a bunch of people running around with superpowers?

If you didn't want to play Marvel Super Heroes: Fantasy Edition, maybe you should be playing another game instead.

>>43990723
If Azata are redditors, what are we?

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>>43990721

>Pic Related
>A proud Agathion-blooded Aasimar awooing the song of her people

>>43990744
Daemons for /b/.

For /tg/...

Inevitables, maybe.

http://www.strawpoll.me/6180141

>>43990723

Wouldn't that be the Inevitables or Axiomites?

Azata are more like Tumblr, specifically the half that spends their time posting porn gifs and smutty art of their favorite ships.

>>43990609
All outsiders can fuck.
ALL of them.

>>43990740

The real question is why, in a world about fantasy superheroes, a bank vault wouldn't have wards out the ass to prevent any level 9+ caster from just waltzing in and out with all their shit.

It's the same reason why I'm always left stupefied by players who think they can game the system with some "clever" application of spells, particularly if it's something to do with the economy. Why the fuck would they think they're the first one to think up an idea like that when wizards have been around and mucking things up for everyone for thousands of years before the start of the game?

Are there any decent unarmed fighters/grappling classes that would work in a 15 point buy game? Monk's out of the equation due to 15 points. 3pp may be allowed (subject to GM discretion), just not sure where to start.

>>43990898
>why, in a world about fantasy superheroes, a bank vault wouldn't have wards out the ass to prevent any level 9+ caster from just waltzing in and out with all their shit.
Of course they would.

The question is why this wizard was allowed to waltz in, detect magic on everything, and saw no magic.

Some GMs seem to run their campaigns as if the party wizard is the first of their kind.

>>43990898
In many cases thats reasonable; I remember a very old, very cool Dragon article about magical and unusual defenses a D&D city would have. But there are definitely magics that break the world in its use, whether thats by PCs or NPCs. Simulacrum comes to mind.

running reight of winter RIGHT NOW

why doe the pcs have to go to the clocktower at all? can't they just go straight to the maze of wood? alter self/charm person/fly....they can just skip the dragon.

>>43990898

Because most settings don't assume magic is used to its full potential for whatever reason. Maybe the creators didn't think of it, or maybe it was supposed to be so rare it didn't matter.

Turns out that's not how a lot of people play.

A lot of dms may assume that some thought was put into the effects of magic on the setting, or they keep forgetting how versatile magic actually is.

>>43990940

>Some GMs seem to run their campaigns as if the party wizard is the first of their kind.

Pretty much all problems with Tier 1/2 casters stem from this fact. If DMs ran NPCs as if they lived in a world where people were used to dealing with magic users and prepared/acted appropriately, there would be far less complaining (well, save for the people playing the casters who thought they were being fiendishly clever).

I like to think that the city guardsmen for particularly large cities get manuals outlining various tactics wizards and sorcerers and the like might use to pull some illegal shit, written by experts at the local mage's guild.

>>43991017
>I like to think that the city guardsmen for particularly large cities get manuals outlining various tactics wizards and sorcerers and the like might use to pull some illegal shit, written by experts at the local mage's guild.
That's how I tend to run things.

But I hear I run D&D like its Shadowrun.

>>43991017
A related issue is the fact that fantasy worlds themselves are often not designed and built with the consideration of these magic users.

They don't consider how society is different, or the different problems a society faces when people are capable of magic like infinite fresh water supplies.

>>43991017
If everyone of the world use magic to its potential then wouldn't that cause even more problems with the martials being less able to contribute?

>>43990998
pls? kinda urgent

>>43991054
because the master says so and fuck you antifun faggot go fight that dragon and stop being a pussy

Saitama CR 1/3
Human commoner
N (Good tendencies) Medium physical perfected humanoid
Init +∞; Senses arcane sight, darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception +70
Defense
AC ∞, touch ∞, flat-footed ∞ (+∞ Dex)
hp ∞ (1d6+∞)
Fort +∞, Ref +∞, Will +∞
Offense
Speed ∞ ft., afterimages
Melee Punch of Death (as the divine SDA Fort DC ∞)
Space ∞ ft.; Reach ∞ ft.
Special Attacks Punch of Death
Statistics
Str ∞, Dex ∞, Con ∞, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 10
Base Atk +∞; CMB +∞ (+∞ grapple); CMD ∞ (can't be tripped)
Feats All of them
Skills Yes
Languages Common; speak with animals
SQ humble, physical perfected, immunity to all
Ecology
Environment abandoned and devastated cities
Organization solitary or with Genos
Treasure standard (particularly items on sale)
Special Qualities
Humble (Ex) Previously a rambunctious hothead concerned with popularity, Saitama has achieved the calm serenity of humility.

Physical Perfected (Ex) Having undergone a moderately grueling regime of 100 push-ups, 100 sit-ups and 100 squats along with running 10 km every single day, Saitama has achieved physical enlightenment. His physical scores are thusly reflected as infinity.

Punch of Death (Ex) Otherwise known as The One Punch, Saitama punches any being within his sensory range and snuffs out its life. The being is allowed a Fort DC ∞. Even if the save succeeds, the target takes ∞ points of damage.


I liked this despite its awfulness

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>>43991017
>People are still using tiers.

Can we just fucking stop this shit already.

God.
Fucking.
Damnit.

>>43991080
but i'm the dm, and the players might just want to sneak in, whcih i'm all for...but how do I handle the army in the way?

>>43991088
apparently "9th level caster" Is to hard to say

>>43991038
>But I hear I run D&D like its Shadowrun.

I get a somewhat similar description from my players.

I am so goddamn paranoid or hyper-prepared that the party automatically assumes the rulers of kingdoms are either:
A. Have wizard armies in his employ
B. Is a Fighter decked with enough magic gear to blind anyone with detect magic.
C. Is a goddamn wizard himself
D. Has several active buffs that make him a nobleman with +50 to all stats and saves.

>>43991050

It's more like those Good/Neutral-aligned magic users would conspire to provide martials and the common man with the tools/information necessary to efficiently and successfully combat and subvert magic users who abuse their knowledge/gifts.

>>43991046

Well, yes, that too. Golarion really shouldn't exist in its current form if you actually looked at what casters are capable of and extrapolated from there. But then, it's called a kitchen sink setting for a reason.

>>43991038

That's how it should be played, honestly.

>>43991050
Yes and no. It would however push martials to be more like gishes to keep their specialties marketable

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>>43991088
Would you rather we just label them as incompetents, adequate classes and overly capable classes?

>>43991088
>People are still using tiers.

>Can we just fucking stop this shit already.
Stop what? Acknowledging the large disparity in the ability to contribute between characters with superpowers and characters without superpowers, and acknowledging the disparity between regular superpowers and reality warping superpowers?

We can't errata the game to not have tiers anon. We're not the ones who published it.

How would you stat gods?

inb4 they're beyond stats

>>43991117
>>43991128
>That's how it should be played
Given how the game works, I'm inclined to agree.

But then I see posts like >>43990434, and it seems like people are under the delusion that this is a system for running LotR or GoT, which is frankly ridiculous, unless you're running E6 or something, in which case you're avoiding 75%+ of the system.

>>43991258
Didn't we go over that just earlier this thread?

>>43991171
Yes. Tiers imply that Tier 3 classes are the ultimate balance point regardless of whether or not their versatility even fucking matters. Say for example the common bard, who is a rather mediocre character all around. Some of the archetypes make it a viable character, but by itself it's rather stupid. There are also uberchargers of all kinds, who are broken in the sense that they render HP a statistic that hardly even fucking matters. That goes double for quite a lot of the Path of War classes.

>>43991186
Look. Tiers don't actually measure a class's actual viability or worthwhileness. Everyone seems to treat it as if say a Sorcerer is acceptable the way it is, or how Hunter is a class that should even fucking exist. The fact of the matter is that there are only only a few "Tier 3" classes that are even actually balanced well, and that is the Alchemist (Particularly Vivisectionist), Summoner and arguably the Tactician from one of the Psionic Books.

>>43991258
Without any new rules? I'd give them 10 mythic ranks, at least 30 levels worth of classes with outsider hd, saves and skills being used if they're higher. That's roughly how the demon lords are built, right?

>>43991258
>>43991288
I guess that was last thread.

Here. >>43979180

When will we get a Qlippoth bloodline for sorcerers and bloodragers ?

>>43991311
in short, they're CR 31+, including at least 10 mythic ranks, as >>43991304 suggested.

>>43991332
When Frasier develops a tentacle fetish

>>43991269

>and it seems like people are under the delusion that this is a system for running LotR or GoT, which is frankly ridiculous

Unfortunately, newcomers to these systems may very well be lead to believe that D&D/Pathfinder IS capable of running campaigns in those settings. It's not like the caster/martial disparity is openly advertised, it's generally something only learned through (painful) experience.

Which is the optimal party size for AP's - 4, 5, or 6?

>>43991355
QUICK
SEND FRASIER ALL YOUR TENTACLE PORN

>>43991359
A quick look through the rulebook shows the wizard an teleport hundreds of miles, create castles in and instant, and pull your soul out of your body. Not to mention summoning giant mansions, creating pocket-universes to your own specifications, etc.

And several other classes have similar tricks.

This is not a low-magic game. You're not playing a minor sorcerer from SoIF, you're playing someone who eventually makes Dr. Fucking Strange look like a chump.

>>43991411
They're designed for 4, but they run fine with 5, and it's not hard to tweak them for 6.

>>43991432
And your fighter can withstand a direct hit from a meteor and swim through lava for a few minutes. You're not Aragon, Son of Arathorn, you're Thor, Son of Odin.

>>43991453
Don't get me wrong, I love me some low-magic fantasy as much as the next guy, but this game is not a game for low magic fantasy.

>>43991463
I'm not up to snuff on pathfinder's setting, but does the setting use magic anywhere near as intelligently as it should be?

>>43991494
Rarely.

>>43991494
Not really. It uses it more than a lot of GMs do in their homebrew, but not as much as would make sense in context.

>>43991311
Which posts specifically?

>>43991258
>>43991288
>>43991304
>>43991311
I'd make them gestalt 20 class levels in x2 classes, with divine ranks functioning as per mythic rules and salient divine abilities incorporated into all of that
The stats would be for their avatars

>>43991531
Uh..
>>43987084
>>43987147
>>43987166
>>43987467
>>43987484
>>43987552

>>43991494
No, and Paizo staff get uppity and obnoxius when you point that out.

Guns have existed on golarion for around 700~ years if I remember correctly. Hardcore tech shit even longer, I find it hard to believe there are people who can make reality there bitch via studying and their own intellect and create fucking PLANES OF EXISTENCE, but can't reverse engineer mundane technology after countless generations. It's essentially hand waving done poorly.

>>43991289
Bards aren't useless though? Even without archetypes, they're useful.

>>43991453

>You're not Aragon, Son of Arathorn, you're Thor, Son of Odin.

I wish Martials were more about becoming Thor or Hercules or some shit.

>>43991666
Path of War?

But yes. Paizo Martials suck, in the context of the rest of the game. Theres a reason everyone rags on them.

>>43991634
if you want to add a +3 to some shit you can alrady do, then yes, a bard is usefull. Otherwise they are shit.

Bards a shit.

>>43991568
Thanks heaps bruh

>>43991733

I don't know about you, but I've been in plenty situations where that +3 was literally the difference between life and death.

>>43991733
I've seen bards 1.5x the rest of the party's damage output (in a group with 4 martials), and then have lots of utility outside combat.

Incedibly useful.

Didn't Lamashtu before she ascended divine status singlehandedly take on that Beast God and rip out its essence?

>>43991795
She lured him into some sort of trap with a gorillion monsters and then killed him when he was weakened. Don't ask me how that works.

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>>43991795
This one?

>>43991087
Nice

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>>43991087
>The being is allowed a Fort DC ∞. Even if the save succeeds, the target takes ∞ points of damage.

>>43991808
>>43991810
Yeah, that one, tyvm
The dude must've been a hella weakass deity

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Don't hide it from me /pfg/
Tell me about your homebrew

>>43991810
>you will never kill Lamashtu and revive Curchanus
>you will never also kill Pazuzu just to make sure
>you will never then get Curchanus and Desna to help bring back Avacna and Amaeznen
>you will never get their help bringing back Aroden
>you will never host a divine high school reunion for them

Why even live?

>>43991845
I made those shitty homebrew planetouched.

>>43991845
I wrote Domain/Favored Weapon/etc profiles for Palutena, Giygas, and Arceus.

>>43991845
My DM has some homebrew, but he'll never publish it.

It makes me rather sad. I myself have some homebrew, but admittedly it's not terribly great.

>>43991845
MOAR

>>43991845
Its an entire Multiverse-spanning campaign adventure that has players stopping a global war, only to discover that its merely the first step to a war between deities that they must stop by ascending to demi-godhood and putting them in their place.

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>>43991891

>>43991845
>>43991845
Speaking of homebrew, has race anon come back?
Last I heard he was making an ooze race, mongrelmen, and contemplatives.

>>43991845
I have weapons and armour suitable for a Sengoku Jidai period game, and am currently working on making period appropriate ships that function in PFs naval combat rules

In hindsight, Pathfinder wasn't the best choice for this kind of campaign, but I'm not the GM and we're all still having fun, so whatever

>>43991289
>Look. Tiers don't actually measure a class's actual viability or worthwhileness.
But they literally do though. A baseline Monk does not ever contribute effectively to a game, and that's why it's incredibly low tier. The same goes for default fighter. It's why shit like the Wizard and other fullcasters are high tier, because they're extremely powerful and versatile, and they're always viable if not outright overpowered.

Your personal opinions don't matter. The tier list exists for a reason. Stop being autistic.

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>mfw for shits and giggles I determined the Appearance Score of the major waifus in Pathfinder APs

>Ameiko got a 13.75
>Tessa Fairwind got 14.25
>Greta got 16
>Arueshalae has 24.5

>>43991948
Enough monks can provide cover as you hide behind their corpses. That's not a bad contribution to the battlefield.

>>43991991
Do the daemons next.
One of them has to have an insanely high one.

>>43991991
How are you determining them?

I take the average of the physical stats and charisma.

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>>43991948
I don't need tiers to tell me that a Monk is a terrible class m8.

>>43991733
They have a pretty decent spell list, dude.

>>43992036
>How are you determining them?

(Str+Dex+Con+Cha) / 4, same as you're probably doing it.

To get an idea of why Arueshalae's so high, her stats are 20, 23, 26, 18, 12, 29.

Girl's got more charm than a succubus and Con for *days*.

>>43992061
It's just a measurement. That's like saying "I don't need kilograms to tell me that rocks are heavy".

Some of my group actually showed up! I wasn't just that weirdo sitting alone at a table for an hour, but was instead 1 of 4 weirdos at a table for 3 and a half. As suspected half of the people including the DM had decided not to come without telling me, but there doesn't seem to be ANY communication so enough people still showed up by accident that I ran a game for them out of an official module. Thought I had done something wrong and been ditched after I waited for no one last week.

First-timers get beat up by skeletons pretty rough in Crypt of the Everflame though. They befriended a wolf and picked up a rogue in town luckily.

>>43992088
Yamasoth might actually be better then that, because he's got mad body scores.

>>43991845
I made a World for my players complete with economies, cultures, history, weather patterns, trade routes, main exports & imports, currencies, alliances, racial demographics, and tech level.
http://imgur.com/MSHxosZ

I also drew their characters over the several months we've been gaming (been close to a year now)
http://imgur.com/0V3GRoL

And I made alliances and guilds from where the party can make decisions that would affect the plot.
http://imgur.com/gMsFjHD

The world is actually two-layered. The lower strata which I posted. And the upper strata, which are composed of floating continents dominantly under the territories of winged holy aasimars, half-dragons who live alongside their ancient dragon ancestors and hyper-advanced magic elves.

>>43992137
Huh, did they say why? What happened?

>>43992190
>>43992088
>>43991991
Reminder that Appearance only works on beings that are vaguely-humanoid in shape and form. For beings that can take on a humanoid form temporarily, however, use their base-form abilities (such as for Silver Dragons or Annis Hags).

>>43992190
Pretty sure the Appearance Score only works as written for humanoids.

>>43992229
>implying yamasoth doesn't eat pussy for breakfast lunch and dinner

>>43992250

Anon... He IS *eating* them for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

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>>43991991

>mfw my character has an 18 in Appearance.

>>43991258
Depends on the setting.

Golarion gods? Probably around CR 35 for the ones like Iomedae. Much higher for the ones like Asmodeus, Sarenrae, or Pharasma. Or Rubadub.

>>43992358
Pharasma is supposed to be the strongest apparently.

>>43992376
Why her?
Is it because she's the custodian of souls?

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>>43992410
The fuck are you even going on about? Nobody said anything about this here man.

Not that I don't agree with you, but Paizo is pretty crappy when it comes to that sort of thing anyways.

>>43992410
Well that salty outburst seems a little unprovoked.

>>43992410
why do you keep posting this

>>43992402
Yeah, she's one of the oldest.
She could probably solve all the various divine subplots if only she gave a fuck.

>>43991845
>Ithilid-kin (Inkstained)

Ancestry: Ithilid

Typical Alignment: CN

Ability Modifiers: +2 Cha, -2 Wis (+2 Dex while shapechanged)

Alternate Skill Modifiers: Acrobatics, Swim

Alternate Spell-Like Ability: Mudball 1/day

Bestial Features:

See in Darkness
Burrow speed equal to base speed
Compression
2 Tentacle attacks that each deal 1d4 points of damage


>Expanded Inksacs
Prerequisite: Inkstained, Mudball spell-like ability, sufficiently high level (see below).
Benefit:
You gain one additional use per day of Mudball. Choose one spell from the table below; by expending a use of Umbral Mudball,

you may use this spell as a spell-like ability. To select a spell, you must meet the minimum character level for its listing

in the table. The save DC for this spell is Charisma-based.

Spell-Like Ability Minimum Character Level
Adhesive Spittle 2nd
Darkness 4th
Dust of Twilight 6th
Deeper Darkness 8th
Transmute Rock to Mud 10th
Special: You may take this feat multiple times. Each time you select it, you gain an additional use of Mudball and may select another spell from the table.

>Dark Water
Prerequisite: Cha 13, Character Level 8th, Inkstained
Benefit:
With a swift action you may expend one use of your Change Shape to draw upon your cephalopod ancesters to aid in your escape. In a burst of ink, you turn into a Tiny blurred shape reminiscent of a squid until the beginning of your next turn. You gain a burrow speed of 50 feet and Earth Glide within areas of dim or lower light, and apply appropriate size modifiers (though your ability scores don't change). Until the beginning of your next turn, you can take only the 5-foot step, move, run, or withdraw actions.

Though I'd like to rework it as more of a combo between inklings and mindlayers.

>>43992436
>>43992438
It's a really bad troll that's been spamming the same thing on every thread for a while on. Just report for spam and move along.

>>43992410
Ignore the troll.
SJWs are a plague, but you feed them by giving them attention. Let this little shit starve.

>>43992436
>>43992438
Relax, this has been spammed in every thread last night and tonight. Someone needs a better hobby.

>>43991991
>>43992088
Welp. Time to run mine through!

>Halfling Gunslinger (Mysterious Stranger)
>STR 5+CON 12+DEX 20+CHA 18
>13.75, equal to Ameiko

>Human Brawler
>STR 18+DEX 14+CON 14+CHA 12
>14.5, not sure if we've confirmed any male NPC's to compare him to, but being 4'10" probably mitigates the ladies' impression of him a little

>Dhampir Inquisitor (Infiltrator) of Asmodeus
>STR 13+DEX 16+CON 12+CHA 10
>12.75 because half-dead abomination

These results are acceptable. Thanks, /pfg/!

>>43992436
Just baiting, though I think it'd be more effective to claim that monks are the anti-caster units and can do it very effectively.

>>43991845
Harrow Medium

>>43991088
Well, yeah, we're not going to stop using efficient terminology and classification just because some layman can't understand it.

>>43991289
>Bards are mediocre
>Summoners are balanced
Now you're just trolling.

>>43992504
Care to share it?

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>>43991991
>My character has a 19 Appearance stat
>My character is pic related

>>43992410
Stop posting this on every single thread and go back to your blog

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>>43992462
>Ithilid

>>43992410

I've literally never seen the words "poseur" or "normie" used in this thread by anyone other than you.

>>43991869
Weren't you making a whole Nintendo pantheon, or something? Didn't you also make a profile for the Hands from Smash?

Demand. Name 5 Pathfinder classes that often have the worst roleplayers. I will even rank mine.

5. Rogues
4. Monks
3. Bards
2. Barbarians.
1. Paladins

>>43992622

1. Alchemist (Gnome)
2. Wizard
3. Paladin
4. Rogue
5. Ranger

>>43992504
Is there anything I can do to help?

>>43992588
Yes.

I posted it a couple threads ago, to no response.

>>43992402
>>43992376
Pharasma's the strongest known one, yes. She basically controls the river of souls, and canonically could have stopped Rubadub in his tracks, but didn't because he wasn't a threat to her job.

>>43992622
1. Gnomes
2. Synthesist Summoners
3. "I'll scout ahead" Rogue
4. Weaboo Magus
5. Lawful Stupid Paladin

>>43992711
How is "nothing exists anymore" not a threat to her job? Can't have a river of souls without start and end points, and if Rubadub-a-Qlippoth-Lord-In-Gormuz's-Tub ate all the start and end points, it'd just be a stagnant pool.

>>43992622
1. Wizard (Realm of the minmaxer)
2. Fighter (Murderhobo McKill'n'Maim)
3. Paladin (Nobody can get LG right)
4. Ranger (You're either Aragorn, Drizz't or Kirito and give absolutely 0 fucks about the game but to brood in a corner)
5. Cleric (Its ALWAYS either Abrahamic or Cultish with you unimaginative fucks)

>>43992737
Because everything would still be dying as Rubadub killed it, so she'd judge them and so on. And once there's nothing left to judge, there's nothing left to judge. She'll judge herself, the universe ends, and then it reboots for the next round.

>>43992550
>>43992653
It's... not too great at the moment, and I'm still trying to fill out what different spirits would do in a separate sheet. Feel free to comment.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/17EUKDQ2rYqKnSaEBjRN09tam9Z7vziHnoMkBbPsOrCM/edit?usp=sharing

>>43992692
It's the problem with these threads, they go by way too quick, like two or three thrads a day, and posts with homebrew usually get lost in all the trolling and shitposting.

I'm searching for 'harrow' but the chain of links only goes back to 27/11, I would have to search the archives. Can you link again, please?

Question.

Why is the Myrmidon Fighter based on Wisdom? shouldn't it be based on Intelligence?

>>43992831
Personally I feel like it should run on any mental attribute, since Fighters don't really run on any one particular mental stat.

>>43992622
In our group's history, though I've had to stretch because these guys are mostly good folk:

>5. Bards. That was my fault, I insisted on trying to fast-talk my way past everything instead of letting the blasters and melee beatsticks do their jobs.
>4. Rangers. Jeez, man, cheer up a little.
>3. Druids. I know you have more than 8 INT, for crying out loud.
>2. Gunslingers. This one's my fault again, I was on a Dollars Trilogy kick.
>1. Summoners. Just... a campaign died over that.
>Honorable Mention goes to that cheeky Magus NPC that stabbed us all full of holes while making terrible puns with his Swashbuckler buddy.

>>43992622

Does Gnome count as a class?

Because it feels like Gnome should count as a class.

Holy shit that race just needs to go and stay go.

>>43991571
That's a huge problem with having an 'everything and the kitchen sink' setting.

Paizo's incompetence just adds a layer onto that.

>>43992819
Oops, confused >>43992692 with>>43992504
Sorry. Post anyway, I can review both.
Also nintendo only, anything acceptable in Smash bros or vidya pantheon? Only characters that are in canon gods, no godfying characters, right?

>>43992819
Wrong guy for Harrow stuff, I was the one being asked about Smash pantheon here: >>43960797

>>43992831
I think it's because Wisdom is the attribute that most versions of Grit are based on, with a side order of providing a convenient reason to use Wisdom, which the fighter already needed most out of the mental stats.

>>43992831

I like it as Wisdom, myself. The idea of a perceptive and cunning warrior who's deadly not just because of his skill, but his decision-making in the split-seconds of combat is cool.

Also, Will saves. They can use Lore Warden to get more skills.

>>43992855
You can list races if you want. I mean it's 4chan. I ain't no arbiter of rules.

>>43992770
Honestly, I can see that as a legit motivation for someone wanting to free Rubadub, or at least worship him.

"This world's kinda ass, let's just ditch it and start again."

>>43992855
>yfw Paizo gave Gnomes a biological justification for lolsorandumb behavior
>they literally die if they don't

Lini can stay, though.

>>43992855
There're racial paragon classes in unearthed arcana.

Though, they seemed kinda underwhelming when I glanced at them. Especially as an 'instead of' class level.

Extended to a full 20class, they'd probably just end up illusionist wizard anyway.

>>43992907

>Rovagug is released from his prison
>Golarion is consumed, the gods die, reality is torn asunder

I want this to happen just so we can get a new setting, and only if that new setting is metal as fuck.

Like, spirit-powered armor killing lizardfolk below a black sun grade metal.

>>43992947
>implying the new reality won't still have Pharasma in it
>implying it won't have people on quests to rescue Shelyn from Rovagug's eye
>implying Papa Oino won't break free after the Horsemen get rekt
>implying Asmodeus won't be a cheeky bugger and reveal some "I can't die ever" clause in the contract of creation

>>43992947
>Some survivors (Somefuckinghow) trying to revive the old world.
>Residents of new world need to stop them, because it will destroy their new world.

>>43991845
I made a race of Batmen, or Manbats, or whatever. I call them Nachtlings.

a Humanoid Race exhibiting bat-like traits. They are often shunned from towns for being falsely associated with vampires. They find solace in their camaraderie with tieflings, half-orcs and dhampirs who share the same ostracized fate.

+2 Dex, +2 Int. Nachtlings have a sleek body and are highly intelligent, capable of triangulating their positions using echolocation.

Light-Sensitivity & Blindsight. Though Nachtlings have poor vision and can only see visual cues like color and written words within 20ft, and are functionally blind beyond 20ft., they have excellent hearing at a range of 100ft and grant a +4 bonus to perception skill involving auditory checks. Consequently, the Nachtling's sensitive ears pick up loud noises more easily, incurring a -4 penalty to resist deafening effects from loud noises such as thundering weapons.

Leathery Wings - Nachtlings have poor maneuverability and can only fly up to speeds of 40ft. They cannot maintain flight and must glide down at the end of their turn.

Vampire Bat - Though Nachtlings are not associated with vampires, their bat-like features still grants them a bite attack that deals 1d4 bleed damage.

Alternate Racial Trait:
Foxnosed - Some Nachtlings prefer finding food on the ground rather than flying to survive. They lose their leathery wings' flight speed (but not their glide speed) and instead gain scent.

Thoughts?

>>43992992
Maybe add a -2 CON? Bats are not exactly the sturdiest creatures.

How goes the Summoner differ from the Unchained Summoner?

>>43993086
It isn't shit.

>>43992711
>>43992737
If anything Pharasma probably just blinked away out f cowardice.

Praise Rovagug

Why is Bestiary 5 so good?

>>43992622

5. Paladins. I love the class but freely admit some stupid fuckery comes from the players as much as GMs when people don't get the fucking code of conduct.
4. Barbarians. Mostly because the class is usually picked by people that don't want to participate outside combat in my experience. Which is a shame, there's plenty of RP potential there.
3. Druids, introducing us to the concept of Stupid Neutral on a regular basis.
2. Dick-ass rogues. There's always some jackass who thinks taking this class means he can start being a dick about the loot.
1. Arcanists. I blame the class's flavor, it seems to be inherently biased towards "wizard or sorcerer with a side-dash of special snowflake to explain why it's neither" in character generation.

I got so many damn character ideas right now, but does anyone got some ideas that use the new Ascetic Style from WMH?

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>>43991845
I am fairly bland, and so I made the Ice-elemental Planetouched. I call them Glacies.

Ability scores: +2 CON, +2 WIS, -2 DEX

Speed: 30 Feet

Size: Medium

Type: Native Outsider

Spell-Like Ability: Chill Touch 1/day
Energy Resistance: Cold 5

Frost Affinity: Glacies sorcerers with the elemental (water) or elemental (air) bloodline treat their Charisma score as 2 points higher for all sorcerer spells and class abilities. Glacies clerics with the Water or air domain cast their Water domain powers and spells at +1 caster level.

Languages: Glacies begin play speaking Common and Aquan or Auran. Glacies with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Aquan, Auran, Elven, Dwarven, Gnome, Halfling, Ignan and Terran.

>>43993117
Other than having legitimately interesting and useful creatures, you can compare it to both Bestiary 4 (the mythic space shit one) and Occult Bestiary.

>>43993123
>3. Druids, introducing us to the concept of Stupid Neutral on a regular basis.
I play druids a lot myself. I got my start in the 3,5 system in Eberron, so right from the start the world was setting me up to do druids RIGHT. I still feel all the druidic sects they had in that setting were awesome.

I want to play an archdruid!

>>43993143
>Frost Affinity: Glacies sorcerers with the elemental (water) or elemental (air) bloodline treat their Charisma score as 2 points higher for all sorcerer spells and class abilities. Glacies clerics with the Water or air domain cast their Water domain powers and spells at +1 caster level.

Dude, there's the rime-blooded bloodline which is all about ice powers

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>>43993117
It would have been book of the year even if every page was just this guy.

>>43992992
Blindsight with Scent? And a hearing of 100ft?

Pretty OP in a subteranean campaign setting.

>>43993251

I feel like this is a good "you fucked up" condition if an evil campaign fails the hardest it can; a couple of these guys descend from the sky.

The devils or demons that were on your side run away shitting themselves and crying.

>>43993245
All I did was eyeball Undine and Sylph and cobble something together.

>>43992884
Palutena: I love that she has trickery, the cheeky cunt. Well done.

The Triforce Goddesses: Three for the price of one. Unusual but makes sense.

Yune, but no Ashera to counterbalance. Not sure, never played Fire Emblem. She needs one more Domain, maybe Luck or Dreams, commonf or Chatoic gods, or Animal for her use of a bird to communicate.

Arceus is okay. The hands too. You might want to expand on who would worship them, and why. Do judges worship the Hands of balance? What is Arceus view on Poke trainers?

Viridis description makes her sound CE. Is her grudge against humans specifically or against all Humanoids? Important question if she's to be used on a more general campaing. Also she lacks a favored weapon. I would have to check, but maybe Natural Weapons can be her favored weapon? No, better, explosives (alchemical fire, grenades, bombs).

Mechonis and tabuu are cool. Giygas is another that needs a paragraph explaining who worships him and how. Why would a CE cleric worship him? Even Rovagug has his crazy nihilists.

>>43992622
I am that poster. I forgot to explain why I didn't like those classes.

For rogues, I always just felt like it was just that class that them newbie women folk get into, and they never get into the mentality and they are always played rather non-optimally.

Monks were always just kind of there, who had a stupid gimmick that people tended to like, but I myself was never too hot on myself. It kind of sucks resenting a person whenever everyone else liked what they did. It's like being a fucking hater.

Bards were always built shittily, and will always try to fascinate my rather "out there" characters to do something stupid, simply because those characters were either more easily suspect able to it and/or they held a lot of hatred and eminity from those who weren't part of what they did. Most likely because I solely play spell-casters, and i like those guys to be at least a little..off.

2. Barbarians always get up in everyone's faces and proclaim themselves the best RPers, and that they should always be spooky as shit to everyone else simply for their combat prowess. That and they are mostly just dumb dogs that you can toss at some other beatstick monster while everyone else who actually did fucking something (IE me and one other guy) handled the actual issues.

1. Paladins fucking grate on me, not because they are typically RPed stupidly. Rather I always found paladins to be bland, and I always fucking laugh at that asshole's face whenever he said he was better at RPing because his character was less optimized than I am. My characters were always more memorable than yours asshole, and I'm not even that great at RPing. While your character just sacrificed himself to the dogs of war. So go fuck yourself you stupid motherfucker. I hope your character gets shat on by the holy bureaucracy. RUST IN PISS. YOU STUPID FUCKASS.

>>43993406
Those are some good points. I oughta keep those in mind.

>Viridi
Humans specifically. Explosives as favored weapons sounds interesting.

>>43992989
>>43992972
>>43992947

>Taldor survives
>Somehow
>Thousands of years of pent up Imperialist lust is unleashed on the world, Molthune style.

Lads, where does it actually say that Stealth gives you a bonus to hit unaware enemies/makes them flat-footed? Came up for the first time in years because someone actually rolled up a rogue. Admittedly, an UC initiating rogue but that's not the point. We agreed that it was entirely logical, but we couldn't actually find where it said that on d20pfsrd other than something similar in invisibility's rules.

>>43993595
Invisibility gives a bonus
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/conditions#TOC-Invisible

Just being stealthed should mean you attack the flat footed AC

Any useful items for a Rogue that's under 400GP?

>>43993648

Sleeves of Many Garments.

Tree Feather Tokens make for incredibly good explosives.

>>43993648
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/r-z/sleeves-of-many-garments

>>43993648
Trail rations

>>43993648
A chair and 50 feet of rope so he can hang himself and make another character.

>>43993648
A noose to hang the character.

>>43993511
I can see it.

Several big cities survive, but are dropped into a new world where colonialism and conquest are actually things again.

Then they've gotta deal with the new people as well.

>>43993251
>>43993302
Can't even call them, either. They're explicitly immune to calling spells.

But holy fuck the art for them is fantastic.

>>43993646
Invisible

Invisible creatures are visually undetectable. An invisible creature gains a +2 bonus on attack rolls against sighted opponents, and ignores its opponents' Dexterity bonuses to AC (if any). See the invisibility special ability.

Invisibility itself explicitly denies the target their dexterity, which enables Sneak Attack.

Stealth, as far as I've seen, doesn't. Anywhere. The only time it seems to us with Unchained things, which is blatantly fucking retarded.

>>43993746
You're flatfooted against things you can't see.

If you're successfully stealthed, you can't be seen.

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>>43993511
>>43993676

What if parts of the old world survive as tangible echoes you can visit and interact with, the denizens largely being made of soul-stuff yet mercifully unaware that anything is actually wrong.

You could make a race from this, or a whole host of nightmarish fusions of spirits and technology.

>>43993595
Wouldn't it just be the normal rules for being caught flat-footed? If you don't notice you're attacker you're going to be surprised.

>>43992786
Now the harrow:

First I really hope you post this on GitP or Paizo because this one needs a full read through and comparing with the playtest version.

From first impressions:

Fate points: Why? Sure the playtest version was complicated but this does not seem like an improvement. It allows 9th Medium to get the greater powers of a spirit plus two or three lesser powers from other spirits.

I like the Will save to resist domination by a spirit with high influence, can keep the character in the game to finish the fight.

Misalign: Again, why? This is unnecessary, since the spirits already gave you thinks to do, to buff allies and curse enemies. This just gives you more work to do on the spirits, and excleudes three types of spirits for no good reason.

Why is astral Conduit so high level? If I remember right Shared Seance was much lower level.

Haunt Channeler, Location Channel, Ask the Spirits, Astral Journey and Spacious Soul are all cool and flavorful abilities, avoid trading them out as much as possible.

IMO, the Harrow Medium doesn't need a rework so big, just change how the spirits work, add trance, and make the missing spirits.

>>43993795
>that Thassilonian city in the crystal bubble is still there
>trying to get a ghost adventurer to accept that the new world is real

What are some of the best 20th level sorcerer bloodline powers from Paizo?

>>43993787
Show me where it says it, though. That's the problem we have. It makes SENSE that you do, and we're ruling it like that, but I want to actually see where the rules SAY that that's the case. I want to verify that Paizo isn't THIS retarded.

>>43993787
But keep in mind as soon as you make the first attack you lose stealth, meaning you only gain Sneak Attack on the first attack and then have to stealth again, somehow.

Being rogue is suffering.

I'm working on a variant of the Summon Good/Evil Monsters spells that summon Constructs and things similar to constucts(As the low end especially is a bit short). However with the huge number of monsters in pathfinder (Including 3rd party) it's taking me a long time to find at least 3 for each level.

The endrange of each summon monster:

Summon Monster I: CR 1/2 (With a Celestial/Fiendish template)
Summon Monster II: CR 1
Summon Monster III: CR 3
Summon Monster IV: CR 4
Summon Monster V: CR 6
Summon Monster VI: CR 7
Summon Monster VII: CR 10
Summon Monster VIII: CR 12
Summon Monster IX: CR 14

So far what I'm looking at:

Summon Monster I: Clockwork Drone, Animated Object(Tiny), Clockwork Spy, Clockwork Scout, Obsidian Quasielemental(Small)
Summon Monster II: Rune Guardian, Phantom Armor: Hollow Helm (Construct, Rather than Undead), Cold Iron Elemental
Summon Monster III: Animated Object(Small), Cobra Construct(Mithril, Adamantine), Clockwork Servant, Phantom Armour: Guardian (Construct rather than Undead), Obsidion Quasielemental(Medium)

>>43993863
I found "If you can't react to a blow, you can't use your Dexterity bonus to AC. If you don't have a Dexterity bonus, your AC does not change." in the combat section for AC. Not what I was looking for but it's something.

>>43993892
This is what flanking is for.

>>43993981
Where? What page? I searched that in the Core book, and I'm not getting any resulsts.

Are there any feats or spells that let you summon a Qlippoth at a relatively early level? I know Gate can do it, but none of the summon monsters can.
I've made a Qlippothspawn cleric of Rovagug and I'm wondering if there's a way to call for more qlippoth.

>>43994027

It was on the d20srd. Had to go find the page on the prd, since I prefer to cite that one to be 100% sure: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/combat.html#armor-class

>>43993092

What do you mean?

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>>43993892
GM house rules that if a character is caught flatfooted, they're considered flatfooted to their attacker until the start of their turn. Though I wouldn't be the least bit surprised of Paizo overlooked actually wording how Stealth works in combat; after all, the Proficiency feats don't actually grant proficiency.

>>43994063
Alright, that's at least closer. But that's just linking itself back to the Flat-Footed description, which says that you're unable to react. There's nothing that actually says being hidden from your target makes them unable to react. Surprise rounds, yes. But that's initiative, not stealth.

>>43994027
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/conditions#TOC-Flat-Footed
>Flat-Footed


>A character who has not yet acted during a combat is flat-footed, unable to react normally to the situation. A flat-footed character loses his Dexterity bonus to AC and Combat Maneuver Defense (CMD) (if any) and cannot make attacks of opportunity, unless he has the Combat Reflexes feat or Uncanny Dodge class ability.

By being stealthed you're initiating combat against someone unaware, so they're caught off-guard and flat-footed during the first round.

>>43994077
Hell, nor are they lost when you archetype away proficiencies. Check this out:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/armor-proficiency-heavy
>Special: Fighters and paladins automatically have Heavy Armor Proficiency as a bonus feat.

You get the proficiency from your class, then double-dip by RAW, so even if you trade away proficiencies, if you're the right class, you will still have them.

I need a bonded object or familiar for a wizard dropout. Any ideas?

Can clerics get familiars?

>>43994120
But what if you're stealthed, a character engaged in combat is focused on other oponents and is unaware of you, and you attack them? They have no idea you're there, but they've acted in combat. Are they flat-footed against you, or not?

>>43994151
Iron Will -> Familiar Bond feat, if a domain (magic, arcane subdomain?) doesn't offer it.

>>43994151
It's possible, yes.

>>43994173
>not taking Eldritch Heritage (arcane)
pleb

>>43994150
Cythnigot.
He found a slimy summoning text, thought "what the hell", and summoned something not meant to be summoned.
Assuming you can get improved familiar and 7th level.

>>43994184
>dropout
>7th level
>qlippoth memes
Kill yourself tbqh

>>43994150
The Asura familiar or a Raktavarna.
Something incredibly manipulating who tries to push him into their agenda.

>>43994152
Nope, they're in combat so they can't be flat-footed unless an ability that causes it is applied to them. Since they're in combat your best bet is greater invisibility or flanking.

>>43994232
Seriously? How the fuck does that make sense? If you're hidden, then you're effectively invisible against them, and they should be denied dex.

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>>43994123
I'm a little on the fence after seeing that. On one hand, that's a massive oversight. On the other hand, however, with the way it's worded it seems as though it may have been intentional. But if the latter is true, then it still means that classes already proficient get that feat anyway.

Y'know, I'm just gonna call Paizo stupid for sake of brevity.

>>43994220
Unfortunately those are no-gos

>>43994270

That one's actually Wizards' fault. It's just funnier now that archetypes are a thing.

>>43993251
>>43993302
>>43993682
But they're not even mythic

>>43994151
Wasp Familiar feat, for Calistrian Clerics.

>>43994255
Them's the rules. Flat-footed goes away as soon as their first turn starts. Stealthing in combat may make you get away, but they can't be caught flat-footed again without an ability that causes it.

>>43994288
Are you starting at 1st?
3rd level ort' s you get a beheaded as a familiar, so if you're around that level that may be a good choice.

All the cool familiars tend to be stuck with improved familiar.

>>43993829
I'll adjust the system, but the basic idea was to allow for more flexible ability changing so you could change class features on a daily basis in the same way Wizards change spells available. As for the level 10 medium (can't get greater powers until then) that wouldn't be too big of an issue, you would essentially be going all in on a single stat with a max of 4 spirits, and the idea was to make the lesser powers useful but not overpowered, roughly equivalent to bonus feats in strength. Still, something to look over again.

Misalign: I just wanted something nifty to do offensively with spirits, plus it gives another way to play the class with a bunch of ammo spirits debuffing. Again, something to look over.

Astral Conduit was always a high level ability though, it was actually level 18 in the playtest.

As for the Medium's abilities, they might all be cool and flavorful but they fit a completely different flavor. All of them involve the Medium's interaction with spirits outside of the ones he's channeling. The playtest version's abilities interacted directly with his class feature of channeling spirits.

>>43994290
Oh! Well don't I feel silly? And indeed that is a thing.

>>43994291
So?

>>43994328
Yeah first level. Honestly I think it might just be easier to convince the dm to let me take a bonded object. I'm just having a hard time trying to figure it out.

>>43994181
Eldritch Heritage has harsher prerequisites, calling for Skill Focus of all things.

Why are demon lords, archangels and great old ones all designed without mythic rules inherent in their statblock
Why'd you want us to do all the work Paizo

>>43994291
Neither are most demigods

>>43994421
Well... I mean would you trust paizo to not fuck it up?

>>43994209
>not being a Meme Machine

>>43994448
Not gonna lie, this is pretty fucking retarded

>>43994458
Heh, good point, they're not too bad generally, despite some bullshit ingrained attitudes

The demon lords even have mythic retained in their own realms, is it really hard to actually include it as part of their statblock

>>43994421
Demon lords at least get some mythic stuff when in their realm.
Most archangels were statted before they came up with mythic rules I believe.

Stealth Gambit
Risk: The rogue attempts to hide from an enemy, making a stealth check to do so as normal.
Reward: The rogue becomes invisible, as if subject to the invisibility spell, for a number of rounds equal to his initiation modifier. The caster level for this effect is equal to the rogue’s initiator level.

Do you still require Cover to initiate Stealth for this, or can you just attempt to do it without it?

>>43994565
Yes, you can't make stealth checks while being observed
>Modifiers
>Being Observed If people are observing you using any of their senses (but typically sight), you can't use Stealth. Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth. If your observers are momentarily distracted (such as by a Bluff check), you can attempt to use Stealth. While the others turn their attention from you, you can attempt a Stealth check if you can get to an unobserved place of some kind. This check, however, is made at a –10 penalty because you have to move fast.

>>43994601
Welp. Useless fucking gambit, then.

So does anyone have a copy of the new volume of Hell's Rebels?

I ask mostly for the NPC shit and for the secrets of Aroden. Drop that shit on us.

Which planar faction do you wish had a familiar

>>43994421
Demon lords and such are mythic in their realm, but not outside of it.

Empyreal lords are the same, and presumably other demigods.

>>43994648
Some kind of Squirmy Demodand? I can't think of many that don't.

>>43994637
The big secret of Aroden is that he was a blacksmith before Earthfall.

That's it.

>>43994421
Cthulhu doesn't need that shit to kick your ass, is why.

>>43994676

Are you fucking kidding me? I mean, cool and all, but... that's the secret? How the fuck is that a secret? Why the fuck does that even matter?

Meanwhile, what's the NPC shit, anyway? Are they updating old stat blocks, or providing new ones, or...?

>>43994396
Doesn't familiar bond prevent you from getting most of the familiar abilities?

>gestalt
>3pp is allowed
>Warder alone is most powerful thing in the party
>still gotta take a class

Should I just grab Fighter or Rogue and call it a day? I'm willing to play fast and loose with the rules here.

>>43994740
Commoner.

>>43994601
>Yes, you can't make stealth checks while being observed

This is why smoke sticks exist.

>>43994601
>(such as by a Bluff check)
Is this just resolved as a Feint in Combat check?

>>43994871
Expert is worse according to the tier list, but maybe better when not optimizing so he should still choose Commoner? I don't know about NPC classes.

>>43992622
Anything that gets a pet.

Druid, Ranger, Hunter, Summoner, whatever. Then Barbarians because they're the go to "her der I kill everything lulz" idiot attractor.

Maybe I'm unusual but I've had good experiences with Paladin and Bard players.

>>43992770
So is Pharasma just a less pleasant Death of the Endless?

>>43994883
Yeah, concealment works, though using a standard or full round action sucks. I'd probably just focus on flanking.

>>43994912
It doesn't say a feint check, just a bluff check. I would assume it's still a standard action, though.

>>43992770
That doesn't make a lot of sense. Rovagug wants to destroy everything, not just living peeps. This means destroying the River of Souls or the Boneyard.

I guess maybe Rovagug would save anything related to Pharasma for last on purpose and Pharasma would bitchsmack him and then do the universal reset.

The actual answer to this probably is Pharasma was basically omniscient before Aroden died (and might still be, but more aloof about it) and knew Rovagug was a flash in the pan deal.

>>43995001
Actually, there's no rule against holding a knife in your main hand and a smoke stick in your other hand so you'll always be considered concealed until the smoke clears away.

>>43995031
Once he does that, though, no more souls, Groetus falls, universe ends. Even Rubadub will die eventually, and he'll be judged as well. Not even gods are truly immortal, their souls go through Pharasma as well. Although some haven't, such as that Azlanti moon goddess whose soul is still trapped inside its corpse on Golarion and created the Mordant Spire to try and reach the Boneyard for judgement.

>>43995063
Well the smokestick burns up in one round and leaves a 10 foot cube, the enemy can just move away and since you won't be ending your movement in concealment or cover you wont' be stealthed. Though I guess you could always have one in hand, I keep forgetting about dex or non-twf rogues.

>>43994291
Mythic is something you can apply to already existing things.

>>43995031
Would he even eventually want to destroy the Pit of Gormuz?

>>43994074
Unchained Summoner isn't shit, it's still really REALLY strong, it's just not quite as strong as the baseline summoner. They just made it worse by making the eidolon alignment-restricted and forcing it to adhere to certain archetypes, which is fucking cancer.

So, /pfg/.

I've been working on a 4e style creature creation thing for pathfinder.

I know that there's one in Unchained, but I don't find it to be particularly good, so I continued working on my own, based primarily on calculated statistics.

Based on the stats I came up with, I determined formulas for all the major numbers, and used those formulas to come up with benchmarks up to CR40.

At this point I've done basically all of the number crunching, and am now just putting it together in a document.

Is this something you guys might be interested in, or will it only really see use for my own table?

My goal was a quicker way to build NPCs/Monsters for my next campaign, and I was (as mentioned) simply not satisfied with Paizo's approach in Unchained.

So. When it's done-ish, would you guys be interested in such a side-project? Would you be willing to give some feedback on it?

>>43995368
NTGB it's shit in comparison to the regular one. And as you mentioned, not for power reasons, it's about as powerful and versatile as before, but now the concepts it can support are infinitely more narrow.

Is it possible to make a completely unkillable character? Assume Mythic and level 20 no third party.

>>43995589
Wizard 20
Fuck off to your own demiplane. Make it permanent. Ring of sustenance.

Try not to die of boredom

>>43995589
Hard Mode: Tier 3 or below

>>43995589
No. Every single character has some way they can die. The only possible exception is if you're going 100% strict RAW and using an extremely optimized Diviner wizard abusing Simulacra to get a Draikana, make it spawn a high end demon, Magic Jar into the demon, and set up Clone factories and shit. And even then, that can die too.

>>43995617
Still dies of aging unless you pick up an ability elsewhere. I forget if Wizards can get that.

>>43995626
>Every single character has some way they can die.
Wrongo bongo. Get 10 mythic tiers so the only way you can die is being critted by an artifact. Become an incorporeal undead or otherwise gain immunity to critical hits. You are now literally impossible to kill.

>>43995663

There's an immortality arcane discovery for that.

>>43995626
Isn't there a type of Oracle that Reincarnates every time they die? That's almost as good as being unkillable.

>>43995663
>>43995676
Also a universal path ability if you feel like wasting an option on that.

>>43995689
Druid. And they have a week cooldown. Plus death effects permakill them.

>>43995689
Unfortunately, the Forsaken curse (which can only work once per week anyway) is third party

>>43995694

Nah he's talking about the heavens oracle capstone ability.

>>43995666
So really only a Mythic Worm the Walks, since it's a template and not an effect that you can dispel.

>>43995617
>Fuck off to your own demiplane.

But what if the Demiplane that eats other Demiplanes comes along to devour your Demiplane? And before you ask, yes, that's a thing. It's from one of the newer books, IIRC.

Is there any way for the bard to get full BAB progression? Even third-party will do.

>>43995705
That's the one.

>>43995716
Teleport out, then make a new demi-plane.
Or drive your demiplane away from the demi-plane-eating-demi-plane.

>>43995730
offensive coMbat training
[horrifically overpowered]
You fight like a warrior-born.
Prerequisite: Defensive Combat
Training
Benefit: Your base attack bonus is equal
to your total hit dice.

Genius Guide to Horrifically Overpowered Feats

Semi-joke book filled with 'overpowered' options that really aren't all that overpowered at all aside from the caster ones.

>>43995716
What's it called?

>>43995741
>Or drive your demiplane away from the demi-plane-eating-demi-plane.
LOL.

>>43995705
What the fuck is a star child supposed to be, anyway?

File: Occult Realms-52.jpg (1MB, 2513x3227px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2513x3227px

>>43995716
Oh wow, that's actually a thing

>>43995750
I don't recall. It's in Occult Realms, IIRC, and takes the form of an ever expanding library that holds entire wings dedicated to the histories, inhabitants, properties, et cetera, of the planes it has devoured. One of the going concerns for a campaign based around it is the possibility that it has gotten big enough to eat the Material Plane (or at least eat Golarion).

>>43995761
The Emperor Reborn

>>43995772
I love how that thing is basically "The Akashic Record as a BBEG". It's beautiful.

>>43995748
>this is considered overpowered
Fuck

I think I'll struggle to convince my GM with a book named like that, but thanks anyway

>>43995079
That's just it, if he killed Pharasma (if he could) or the River of Souls or the entire soul petitioner construct before he destroyed everything else then that kind of mucks up Pharasma's deal, obviously. Those ARE things and he wants those destroyed, which should totally concern Pharasma if he was a threat, and would obviously precede his judging if the judge was destroyed.

I was just speculating that no, Rovagug wasn't even remotely a threat to Pharasma and she knew it.

>>43995812
I've used it in several games to no real issue

>>43995812
You could just re-word it as "Gain +1 to your BAB, this increases every 5th HD you gain."

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XkoqXlPwmQjVx2CsRBsh1zsXmZvuRWh9dCw2djS7BAg/edit?usp=sharing

I decided to see if I could make an interesting Construct-based summoner variant.

It owes a lot to the Celestial Summoner (Though it's less dedicated in it's focus than that one was)

Feedback would be appreciated. I'm trying not to have it be TOO powerful. At least in comparison to the base summoner.

>>43995969

Addition: Summon Construct Creature feat is not yet finished. Only goes to Summon Monster III so far.

>>43995969
Wish as a level 6 spell and The Future has Arrived are too good. Switch it with Limited Wish and cut literally about half of the powers from The Future has Arrived. It simply does too much compared to other capstone abilities.

>>43996026
You do realize that a capstone is going to get used, maybe, once, right?

File: f4803bc376aab1b2525e4c440f792b1b.png (180KB, 500x600px) Image search: [Google]

180KB, 500x600px

>>43996026
They get wish at level 16 though, and really why would you deprive them of that? They get wish when a wizard gets wish.

>>43996026

The Future Has Arrived is the Construct type save that you actually get to keep your Healing/Con score.

You think it's too much? I didn't want to strip people of access to healing by making it just flat 'You become a construct'.

Putting on a name so people know which people are me (Yes, person who did some Kings of War homebrew)

Wish I was iffy on but at the same time, the Celestial Commander gets the more potent Miracle as a level 6. Still...maybe.

Goddamn Darker than Black is good, how do I stat Hei?

>>43996077
Shocking grasp Magus

>>43996050
Wizards get Wish at 17.

>>43996077
Shocking grasp magus. Elemental flux/veiled moon PoW mystic. Port Swiftblade from 3.5, because it's awesome, then Magus into it.

>>43996134
What's a Swiftblade?

>>43996146
http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327

Fantastic Gish prestige class.

>>43996146
Better than PoW classes

>>43996047
You're an idiot. People play Mythic campaigns. If that's your attitude, he might as well make the class only 15 levels.

>>43996050
Lol what

>>43996065
>The Future Has Arrived is the Construct type save that you actually get to keep your Healing/Con score.
Wrong. Constructs can not gain mental ability score bonuses through aging, which your class does as it is currently written.

But yes, it is too powerful even if it were just the construct abilities.

>>43996178
People play mythic campaigns, yes, you fucking nigger.

You know what mythic is available at? Anything from level 1 to 20. You know how many people play epic level mythic campaigns? Effectively zero.

>>43996077
I've never seen the show but I'm guessing you take Batman and change his ethnicity to Tian and you're done.

>>43996146
>>43996168
>>43996169
Special thanks to Tom Welsh (NineInchNall) and the Character Optimization forum for providing an abundance of useful feedback.

holy shit

>>43996131
>>43996050

How about Create Demiplane, Greater instead?

It's another 9th level spell but less horrifically powerful and fits with the 'I make shit' theme.

>Wrong. Constructs can not gain mental ability score bonuses through aging, which your class does as it is currently written.

Sorry, a lot of the wording came from the Green Star Adept which had 'Be a construct' as it's level 10 feature.

>>43996188
>Blah blah blah retarded capstone abilities are fine because my friends and I are all level 1
Kill yourself.

>>43996105
>>43996134
Haha, you're right!

>>43996190
He's the Chinese Electric Batman; but he's not really a detective though, he solves crimes by murdering people

>>43996206
I guess Wish is fine. You make a good point about the Celestial Commander. I am surprised Paizo thought a level 16 character should be allowed to cast Miracle. It seems ridiculous for a summoner to be able to replicate all level 8 cleric spells and all level 7 spells at level 16.

I like Create Demiplane, Greater because it fits the flavor better.

>>43996210
It honestly doesn't even seem to be particularly egregious.

While I'm at it. I must add that synthesis summoners are shittier summoners. They just make fighter fags mad because they have more steez than them.

>>43996206
I mean, I didn't have a problem with Wish because the game breaks down after level 10-12 anyhow, I was just correcting the "Wish at 16" thing since no one does that.

Create Demiplane does seem more thematic as a "making shit" spell. It's the ultimate is making your own realm with all the shit you want in it.

Wish isn't really a "I make shit" spell. It's a "I do anything" spell, for instance, Tar Baphon wishing he had a guy's heart in his hand.

>>43996278
>the game breaks down after level 10-12 anyhow
How do you figure? Are you saying the difference between the tiers becomes more significant? Please elaborate.

>>43996296
Kind of agree, at that point it becomes just a HUGE hassle keeping track of everything that is isn't worth playing unless everyone has years of experience and has put a LOT of thought in their characters.

>>43996278

That and Summoners normally get the Lesser version.

Giving a variant the Greater version doesn't seem like much of a stretch when it's very in-theme.

You make a good point about thematics. My thoughts were largely 'SCIENCE!' with it but that's too wide to really work.

>>43996262

My thoughts was that I needed to make something that was on par with 'I get 20 mins every day of two Eidolons'

It's sort of why they get Medium Armour. They gave up the Eidolon and all the defensive tricks it gives them (And the buffs to a single summoned monster are not quite as awesome, after all)

>>43995666
>or otherwise gain immunity to critical hits
Black Blood Bloodrager gets immunity to crits at 20th level, I think.

You can also go Reincarnated Druid 5 for the "if killed you come back to life 1 week later unless slain by a death effect" and then taking 10 levels of that PrC that makes you immune to death effects at 9th level or whatever. That's another method of immortality, and requires no mythic.

>>43995772
>fox wearing a crown

Okay, is this supposed to mean something? Because if it does, I don't get it.

>>43996296
Once you get at that level casters start getting enough money and powerful enough spells to completely ignore their one major weakness (limited resource pool) by just churning out contingency scrolls and wands for whatever occasion. Less a "tiers" thing as I don't really care about tiers and more circumventing the only weakness the most powerful classes really have.

>>43996385
Casters, regardless of level and gear are still fucked by a lot of things:
Anti-magic
A stealthed rogue with fort-targetting poison
Anything that won initiative and can knock out the caster in one punch
Another caster who won initiative or has more contingencies than batman
The dweomercat

>>43996385
Why would you use contingency scrolls instead of just casting contingency?

>>43996403
>shrink item tinfoil hat
>true seeing
>mirror image/insert defensive spell of choice
>rocket tag
>not a threat past maybe 8th level

>>43996403
>The dweomercat

It saddens me that there is literally no way to make this an animal companion.

The closest I could make a good dweomercat pouncer is eldritch guardian 2 / optionally Hunter 2 or 4 / Magus or Eldritch Archer onwards.

>>43996450
You can get a cub as a familiar, and familiars have two feat chains now (Skill Focus --> Eldritch Heritage, or Iron Will --> Familiar Bond -->Improved Familiar Bond)

>>43996431
>implying you've already prepped all of them beforehand

>>43996450
A dweomercat cub is an improved familiar, semen-monger.

>>43996464
>>43996467
You do realize this is what I meant, right?

The only good way to make a dweomercat cub as a good, combat-viable pet is with a dip into eldritch guardian followed by becoming anything with the familiar ability. Magus just seems to be the best for this build because they can also benefit from combat and teamwork feats.

Hunter is optional if you need extra teamwork feats. Or inquisitor with the familiar feature which is also valid in lieu of magus.

>>43996484
Well, there are cubs, and there are full dweomercats. Pretty sure the latter can be gotten as a cohort.

New thread?

Am paying from my phone.

>>43996497
>Pretty sure the latter can be gotten as a cohort.
Nope. I checked.

I think you *could* magically age a dweomercat cub to an adult though.

If I have Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus, will Spell Focus (Mythic) increase the DC by 2 total or by 1? "The bonus to save DCs provided by Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus for that school increases by 1."

>>43996504
Eh, well...

A dweomercat grows not by the passage of time, but through direct exposure to fey magic. Thus, a dweomercat cub on the Material Plane is stunted developmentally. Though it ages and gains experience and practical wisdom anywhere, only by spending several lifetimes can the cub reach adulthood. Once it has reached this stage, however, a fully grown dweomercat may freely travel between its native land and the Material Plane without adverse effects.

I suppose you could but this seems like the job of a Miracle or Wish