OSR General

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>>43984229
Sup /OSR/
I'm trying to track down where this image of gnolls came from. All I know it's from some 2e D&D book. Any grognard-greybeard here have a clue?

What is this grey blasphemy? I demand Blue Icon, for it is easy to find.


>>43983762
> That's why I'm splitting oil into lamp oil and burning oil in my upcoming game.
Gygax messed up anyway -- medieval lamp oil was vegetable oil, and if you try to light it without a wick, it'll just extinguish the flame. Even kerosene will do this, and that's way better than period lamp oil.

> Regular lamp oil will just make the area slippery, serving as a different detterent than say, caltrops, or a pool of burning oil.

(some googling) ... Yeah. But how much would the burning oil cost? And what exactly was it?

>>43984229

Oh god this is awesome how could I miss this?

>>43984717
>But how much would the burning oil cost? And what exactly was it?

I believe actual burning oil that you can just casually throw down and ignite is ahistorical, outside of maybe Greek Fire. In my setting, though, magic makes some things more volatile, (so cannons are only used by very dedicated looneys who don't mind a lot of casualties involved in shipping and loading the powder) so any reasonably volatile oil ought to work.
It costs more than lamp oil, and you can't use one for the other, so players don't have an automatic "best choice" for what to load the wizards and other light-carry classes up with. Caltrops are nice, burning oil is good, plain oil can make the ground slippery which may work for some enemies.

>>43984229
Are there any conversions of the Pathfinder bestiaries to OSR?

Are there any guides to the differences between monster statblocks across editions?

>>43984717
> What is this grey blasphemy? I demand Blue Icon, for it is easy to find.
yeah, that was half the reason I made/chose the blue one when I started posting these six months or so back. Non-Repro blue sticks out like a beacon in the catalog.

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Was there ever some sort of OD&D DM screen?
I feel like Judge's Guild published one, but it doesn't appear in the Trove

I'd just like something with all my reaction rolls and THAC tables on it for Brown Book OD&D, since I'll be running a game over Christmas.

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>>43986248
I got you anon.
Trove guy put this in there somewhere when he was compiling everything, but I'm not sure where.

>>43987029
>DMR1
That's for the Rules Cyclopedia, anon. There's a world of difference between that and OD&D.

Hell, I'm pretty sure that book is contemporary with 2E.

>>43986248
I don't know if there are any PDFs of it, to be honest. It's an old product and I don't think they reprinted it.

From what I've heard it was a reprint of information in the Judge's Guild Ready Ref Sheets, however, which ARE in the Trove.

>>43987118
Thanks! I actually have a copy of the Ready Ref sheets, which do happen to have the THAC tables in them, including a set meant to be removed from the book (by simply bending the staples!), but I'm reticent to remove them due to the fragile nature of the book itself.

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Just got done mocking up what will be my basic classes!

I know the presentation right now is shit/10 but I haven't had time to do much or start writing out the character creation guides yet, I just got some basic math down.

These are my re imaginings of the Basic classes. I plan on doing 4 more advanced classes later.

>>43984717
>But how much would the burning oil cost?
Less, because it was bad lamp oil, for poor people, due to the terrible black smoke it gave off when burned, unlike good oil which is smokeless. It was never popular in antiquity and only gathered at all because it was effortless, springing as it did from the stones on its own in various places around the Middle East.

>And what exactly was it?
It was called Rock Oil -- petroleum.

>>43987118
>That's for the Rules Cyclopedia, anon. There's a world of difference between that and OD&D.

What's the big difference?

>>43993936
RC is compiled & revised BECMI. OD&D, depending on how many of the supplements you use, is either quite different or extremely different.

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>>43993936

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Somebody run a hexcrawl here on /tg/, please.

I will pay in electrum pieces.

>>43994085

That's my plan, to run an open table hexcrawl based on a houseruled LotFP for folks. I just need to finish my crazy house rules, put together some spell lists, and set everything up to go. He says, as if that's some sort of trivial task, and one that doesn't keep getting bigger the more he works on it

hey so im going to run S&W grimmsgate for a group of 4 people (suggested 4-8 lvl 1-3's) looking over the book its like everything had just amount HP as they might have, are they just going to die to combat? or am I thinking too much (this will be my first time running anything)?

>>43994355

Have them roll up some second characters and bring them in as henchmen or hirelings to pad out the party a bit. If someone dies, a henchman gets promoted to PC.

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The Alice class in the A Red and Pleasant Land for LotFP intrigues me.

You begin play with a specialist's AB and a Magic-User's HD, and operate more or less like a bard, but with a ton of randomness involved with how you develop in levels. She's pretty piss poor at first level, but with a tiny bit of luck she can be a hugely powerful character at high levels depending on how permissive the GM is with the Exasperation mechanic.

Should it be available from the first session, or should it be "unlocked" after the players get to the ARaPL module?

>>43984604
Dmg

Do you guys prefer the Advanced version of Labyrinth Lord or the normal version?

>>43995021
Taken as-is, I prefer the normal version. AEC adds too much of the bullshit from AD&D for my taste. There are too many fiddly stats conferred by your attributes, like separate Resurrection Survival and Transformation Survival percentile scores, even though the latter is usually exactly 5% less than the former (why bother?). Each race has ability minimums and maximums you have to check. Classes have ability prerequisites.

Don't get me wrong, AEC does simplify a lot of things, and is definitely a step in the right direction from AD&D, but I wish it would've gone a bit further. But then I'm not a fan of regular LL's extended arms and armor lists, so you can see where I'm coming from. If nothing else, though, AEC makes AD&D even more compatible with Basic, and lifting the classes from it to use with regular LL is a breeze.

>>43987991

Nobody interested?

>>43996088

I downloaded it earlier, but it's midnight here and I'm off to bed. I'll try to give it a look before work in the morning.

>>43987991
Hey, I saw you in HBG I think! Or maybe it was here... Anyway, love the naming conventions, hate that the Chosen don't match it, but I like the rest a lot. I'm actually digging the trophy idea now that I see how you're executing it, and it says a lot about the class and the world; these fuckers are /actively trying/ to get into brawls with way more dangerous shit, and that's something that I think is neat to embrace in-setting. I haven't read much of it, to be honest, but count on me stopping in from time to time to check your progress!

>>43996703
>Chosen

I haven't thought of any edgier names for the Chosen, to be honest.

Also, appreciate the feedback.

>>43994872
Only natives to Voivodja can be Alices, they're the only people worth seeing in the land the gods refuse to see.

It's recommended in the book that the characters start as outsiders, so no alices until they've been there for a while and roll a native.

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>>43996703
>>43996737

Name has since been changed to Militant, to better capture that edgy feel.

Also; newer, interlocking mechanics. Originally I didn't want the Cleric/paladin/chosen/militant to have growing dice, because that was more of a Crook thing with their Focus dice ability, but since it is merely one die and it is easy to keep track of and multiply, I thought hey why not. I'm not sure how well the turning math works out at higher levels, I'll need to run a few tests on that one.

>>43984229
Did the Zine drop yet?

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Working on a Dwarf class heavily inspired by ZakS' fighter(i.e. player rolls 2 random improvements every level). Maybe I'll submit it to the troll gods zine if that's still alive.

I'm basing it on LotFP, and the one thing Dwarfs get in LotFP is saves, so a big chunk of the d100 range is going to be devoted to saves.

The rest will be filled with dwarfy things. Bonuses vs. giants, strange moods, shields etc.

pic related. any thoughts?

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>>43997896
4 extra HP per level seems a bit much even though that's unlikely to happen before level 10 or so. Maybe reduce the bonus to 1 HP.

I like everything that makes your saves more personal and less of a static, detached row of numbers.

>>43993936
OD&D with all supplements is basically AD&D - OD&D with NO supplements pretty much exclusively uses d6s and d20/d10s. (Remember, d10s and d20s were the same die once.)
Also, the combat system is either very similar, if you use the Alternate Combat System, or EXTREMELY different if you use Chainmail.
That's not to mention stuff like jousting rules and not having Magic Missile until Greyhawk and all spells having saves and traps being nonlethal and monster XP being 100XP/HD (probably) and the standard encounter tables being most appropriately described as "terrifying" and most ability scores not having any mechanical purpose beyond giving an XP bonus. (The bonuses that exist are small-ish - CON maybe gives +-1HP/HD.)
Also, of course, the Thief wasn't a thing until Greyhawk and when the Paladin was introduced it didn't get spells. Also, half-elves. And Balrogs have ten six-sided hit dice.

>>43997896
>Random level ups
Man, this makes me want to make a Blood Bowl RPG.

>>43996088
1) Stop putting jpeg images of text instead of text. I don't want to type your (bad) game mechanics.
2) Bad art is worse than no art.
3) No explanation whether to round up or round down.


>>43997896
1) 32-38 apparently has a typo: shouldn't it be less than 3 instead of less than 5? Or are the other entries wrong? After all, it would make more sense for having 5, rather than 3, since 2 is the minimum saving throw number.

2) I'd prefer "add to your saving throw roll" (i.e. bonus) instead of "reduce target save number": it allows room for error when you level-ups (you are still stuck with your original (unmodified) table of saving throws).

>>43997896
>the one thing Dwarfs get in LotFP is saves
Halflings are the saves guys. Dwarves only catch up at level 13, requiring 844 800 XP. A halfling gets the same saves at Level 8 for 128 000 XP.

Darves get HP.

>>43998065
> HP.
And encumbrance.

>>43997962
I may have to do some math on that. Not that any of my oldschoool games ever went beyond level 6.

>>43998030
1) is something of an artifact from LotFP where Magic is the "weak" save for mid to high level non-casters. It's as arbirary as saves usually are. I'll just set it to 2.

2) Noted. Thank you!

>>43998065
>>43998078
They'll still get those, of course.

>>43997992
>and monster XP being 100XP/HD (probably)
according to Mornard, the supplement 1 XP was what they originally used and 100XP/HD is a misinterpretation based on a poorly chosen example in the OD&D books. Monster XP is supposed to be insignificant, to encourage creative play aimed at getting the loot. There's also a blogpost somewhere, on Gary's house rules where he basically drops XP for monsters entirely because it's insignificant and a waste of time.

>>43997992
>monster XP being 100XP/HD (probably)
While this is pretty undeniably what the rules actually say, Mornard's mentioned that this was one of Gygax's more catastrophic ball drops -- he used trolls for an example, and with their powerful regeneration they were worth much more than normal for their HD. It seems pretty clear that Gygax gave very little XP indeed for 1-HD enemies even in the earliest days of OD&D.

>>43998530
>>43998804
Ha, shit, I should've refreshed first.

>>43998530
>>43998804
It's worth noting that even with 100XP/HD you still get somewhere in the vicinity of 90% of your XP from GP on the first dungeon floor, though. IIRC it goes down to 70% at some lower floor, then jumps up to 75%ish at 13+.

Jewelry and gems give a shitload of experience. We're talking thousands and thousands of XP.

The percentages go up even further if you use Greyhawk rules, of course, although Greyhawk also gives a lot more monster XP from the stronger monsters. (Remember, Monsters & Treasure mostly maxed out at 12HD.)

>>43998530
>There's also a blogpost somewhere, on Gary's house rules
I think this was on Cyclopeatron, although I can't be bothered to go look for it.

>>43994281
Post stuff. We might help.


>>43997734
Uncertain. Shall we dispatch assassins to hunt down TroveGuy?

RE: LotFP
If I read this correctly, characters have an exploration (dungeon) movement of 120' per turn. Considering that each space in a dungeon map usually represents 5', then regular players have an exploration rate of 24 spaces/turn.

That sounds like an awful lot.

>>44000799
>Post stuff. We might help.

I'd have to compile my notes into something readable postable, but that's not a bad idea. It would help to get some extra eyes on some of this stuff.

>>>43997734
>Uncertain. Shall we dispatch assassins to hunt down TroveGuy?

I don't think assassins are what we want if we want him to finish up. We need, like, deployable rent-a-friends, a mob of pleasant guys in sweaters who will go over and bring him hot chocolate, and offer to help move heavy furniture or whatever he needs done, so he can just relax and work on stuff.
(Come to think of it I could use those too. Heh.)

>>44001302

Consider that a turn is ten minutes, and it's not so much.

>>43998030
>1) Stop putting jpeg images of text instead of text.

I'm not sure how to imput an image in wordpad and then type next to it, normally it just makes me type below or above it, I can't type to the side.

>I don't want to type your (bad) game mechanics.

Edgy. I can see you won't be giving useful feedback any time soon.

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>>44001800
> Edgy.
Well, I've spent several minutes of my life reading it and I didn't like it. Do you want me to say "everyone is a winner"?


Fighter: too much bookkeeping.
Combat Techniques are particularly annoying. If I have to remember/write something, it has to actually matter, not a "+1 with daggers" or "+1 AC when using the same weapon as your enemy".

I mean, seriously. What the fuck? This this OSR. I want efficiency.


Paladin: oh god.
Turning is an abomination.
- allows to slaughter thousands of mooks in one action. Actually, I like it. Well, the flavour, not ergonomics. It works wonders as a mechanic of Elder God champions. But the "your eyes explode when you see me" kind of ability feels wrong for traditional not!Christian paladins.
- Turning die grows based on your level, while you already add your level to your roll. That's sloppy.
- damage calculation is just horrible. Not only do I have separate damage for each target of mass-damage action, I also need to roll it. Can't you just say "2 damage" instead of rolling d4s? Do I really need to roll?

Holy Vigor is really hard to decipher.


Crook: What does "maximum number of skill" mean? Skill_s_? Or ranks in skill?
Can't we have uniform Focus Dice?

P.s. Word 2010 should be free.

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>>44002938
Bite me.

>>44001800
>wordpad
dude get open office
right-click on the picture
choose wrap->page wrap
judging from screenshots I don't have the english version

Your classes look pretty solid but I'm bad with crunch

>>44003030
>dude get open office
libreoffice. It's a fork of open office. OO is basically dead and all the developers have moved to LO. Don't ask, stupid politics was involved.

>>44002898

This is some useful feedback now, thanks!

But first I have to put my foot down and say I'm pretty sure you didn't read the turning part right. You have to roll OVER the MAXIMUM amount of hit points of a given creature. Like if you're using d8 hit dice for creatures then even a 1d8 creature will need a roll of 9 to even get 1d4 turning damage.

I do agree that adding the Cleric level to the turning is unnecessary with the faith dice, I should fix that part.

Fighters may be a little bit more bookkeeping then normal but its supposed to make them feel a little more fleshed out. I don't want everyone else to be giddily discussing their Focus dice or clerical magic or spell selection while the Bastard is alone fiddling with his dick. He should get some customization and growth too.

Additionally; yes as for crooks that is supposed to say 'maximum number of Skills'

Thanks for the feedback.

>>43993936

Hardly any difference. At least as far as TSR was concerned, B/X, BECMI, and the RC were all just revisions of OD&D.

There are little disclaimers inside the front covers of both the Marsh/Cook and Moldvay Expert Sets explaining that Mentzer Basic supplants and replaces Moldvay Basic, which supplants and replaces Holmes Basic; while Mentzer Expert does the same Marsh/Cook Expert, which in turn supplants/replaces/revises/updates the LBBs.

In every way that matters to non-autists, the Rules Cyclopedia was just the last officially published version of OD&D.

>>44003601
> But first I have to put my foot down and say I'm pretty sure you didn't read the turning part right.
I did. Granted, you need to be level 4 (preferably 5) to reliably use it (another problem), but you'll be hitting everyone who sees you. I.e. if you climb on top of some tower or fly over the enemy city and keep spamming Turning, you can exterminate most of the population (1 HD commoners), unless they cover their eyes or something.

As I said, that's not what Paladins do (unless they worship Cthulhu).

> He should get some customization and growth too.
Well, you are doing it wrong, because 3E Weapon Focus feat sucked. Having lots of Weapon Focus feats still sucked. Except you had to spend more paper writing shit down.

So don't waste people's time on minor Techniques. Making 1d20 roll and giving one badass Technique on natural 20 is much much better than having 10 minor Techniques nobody cares about.


Also, you should consider trophy-users like Perseus. When he used Medusa head he didn't get +1 to Swords. He turned his enemies to stone.

Making Fighter get poison immunity for ripping out still beating Black Lizardfolk's heart and eating it raw while it watches is so much better than giving "saving throw re-roll".

> 'maximum number of Skills'
Disciplines then. You are calling them Disciplines.

>>44004346
>As I said, that's not what Paladins do (unless they worship Cthulhu).

To be fair, I used 'Paladin' to explain the class better, but they are closer to worshiping Cthulhu. The idea is I like the Cleric's non-healing abilites but I thought with the healing in tow it makes them too flexible but also forces them into a healbot role, so I decided to make a second, squishy as fuck casting class that functions as a healer instead, so the Cleric/Paladin combo can do his holy magic and turn undead thing.

As for the rest, I will certainly consider them. I like the Perseus and black lizard heart ideas, but in OSR style games those are more things that emerge automatically through storytelling then through the trophy mechanics, at least according to how I've known it is done.