Exalted General /exg/

>>43909541
I'm still not entirely sure how to feel about the ten dudes jacking off in a cup to make super babies, one of my players asked what would happen if a bunch of Exalts tried it, but he ended up forgetting about it by the time we actually started playing.

>>43909666
>ten dudes jacking off in a cup to make super babies

I took it to mean magical gangrape, not turbo-wanking.

>>43909666
I'm not too sure about that, either. The other new locations seem pretty cool, though, and Volivat might turn out interesting as well if done right.

>>43909679
Why rape, anon?

>>43909679
PurpleXVI, is that you!?

>>43909679
His words, I think he pictured like, ten dudes surrounding a girl with a funnel from the way he asked about it.

>>43909707
>Why rape, anon?

It's sex that involves 10 guys, I think we can all agree that's probably rape.

>>43909679
All the fluff says 'devised a formula' which leans towards test-tube babies, but knowing this damn game, could mean 'everyone fuck that girl in a specific order'.

That, or there's a Neomah involved, and the multiple-parent-madness hasn't spun out of control yet.

>>43909726
That's a really stupid definition of rape

>>43909716
Sounds like something that whatshername, Princess Magnificent? would get up to. The sex deathlord.

>>43909726
I really don't see why. I mean, these Children of Ten Fathers are the badass champions of Volivat. They're a big part of what makes Volivat a power in the Dreaming Sea region, and being the mother of one of them presumably brings with it considerable prestige. Patriotism and ambition alike could lead a woman to willingly become a part of that.

>>43909726
>a girl can't give consent if there's more than one man

>>43909679
I mean, it's really up to you to fill in the blanks however you want, I guess, but the book mentions a formula rather than an actual gangbang, nigga.

>>43909726
Why?

>>43909729
Or maybe you feed the people involved something special to make the whole thing possible, or maybe it's about the location the act takes place in, or maybe something completely different.

>>43909666

Doesn't FATAL have a magic item where you jack off into it and it creates a baby?

>>43909753
Could the mother be a man who had a working to give him a womb?

Would that only need 9 fathers?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1n8BkGHMGC_CTKwoDVNVcesKgTTf6lTO4MXBY6HUpVIE/edit?usp=sharing

Still looking for advice on 5 home-brew Brawl charms, especially the final one.

>>43909750
The Lover Clad in the Raiment of Tears

Princess Magnificent is the shamefur dispray deathlord who got spooked out of ruling Great Forks by a bad dream and then basically became FaFL's bitch

>>43909773
Ask your GM.

>>43909773
Only if his own sperm impregnated himself, probably.

>>43909779
Yeah, that's who I meant. Normally I'd look this shit up, but I'm at work.

>>43909753
I still wonder, does this mean the woman in question has ten legal husbands?

>>43909821
Do all of her children have ten fathers? If so, are they the same guys?

>>43909666
>>43909679

It's fucking rule63 Heimdall, guys.

>>43910052
The mythology of ancient cultures are pretty problematic and likely produced by shitlords, anon.

Since enlightened mortals don't exist in 3e, what's a god or other spirit to do when they wish to give a mortal human some power? I'm not talking about Exigents, I'm talking about merely giving a favored priest some godly power. Would that just be a God-Blooded?

>>43910129

God-blooding, Workings, or even just a specialized blessing Charm (Ahlat has one, I remember) unique to that god.

>>43910129
Godblooded, workings

>>43910129
Maybe special merits similar to the ones for different sorcery initiations?

>>43910129
Sorcerous workings.

>>43910129
Just fucking bless them, no shenanigans involved.

>>43910150
>>43910155

Huh.

On another note: does Creation have anything analogous to Youkai? As in "spirits that aren't Gods, Demons, or Elementals". Like, if you wanted to go full weeb and put beings like Kitsune, Tanuki, and other such beings in a particular area of Creation.

>>43910214
Why can't they be gods or elementals?

But yeah if you want.

>>43910214
>Kitsune, Tanuki, and other such beings
those are all minor gods with no set "job" or purview.
Look at Storm Mothers and Dogs of the Unbroken Earth.

>>43910214
I think those would be minor gods at best, anon.

>>43910235
>Why can't they be gods or elementals?

Kitsune could be fox gods (and I think they were worshipped as gods in ancient Japan), but some mythological creatures feel a little weird to use as gods, though Exalted appears to have a REALLY wide definition for the word "god".

>>43910258
>>43910261

Huh. Exalted's definition of "god" is way wider than I thought.

>>43910283
If you were really a weeb you'd have learned a bit about shinto and would get it

>>43910287
Are you implying that years of being a 2hu fan ISN'T the same as studying Shinto?

In any case the word "god" to me denotes control over some kind of domain.

>>43910283
Yes, Exalted has a lot of gods and spirits. Caravan gods, for example, amount to extremely buff mortals who are summoned to protect travelers or help with the transport of goods after all the prayers and sacrifices are done.

>>43910341
>In any case the word "god" to me denotes control over some kind of domain.

And some domains are either two broad to be managed by a single spirit, or offer too little worship for any real nigga god to care; so it gets taken over by hundreds of low level gods (many who lost their domain to the Contagion) who all take on a common mien and get their little cut of that worship in their locality - eg. storm mothers or kitsunes

>>43910425
Plus there are some gods that seem to exist for no real purpose beyond "the loom demands certain things happen" so you get gods like Bloody Hands who try to incite thrilling murders.

>Foxes and human beings lived close together in ancient Japan; this companionship gave rise to legends about the creatures. Kitsune have become closely associated with Inari, a Shinto kami or spirit, and serve as its messengers.

>Inari Ōkami (稲荷大神?, also Oinari) is the Japanese kami of foxes, of fertility, rice, tea and Sake, of agriculture and industry, of general prosperity and worldly success, and one of the principal kami of Shinto.

So Inari would be an agriculture god and kitsunes would be beastman cultists with Infallible Messenger?

>>43910477
Or the kitsune could be low level gods acting as lesser functionaries.

>>43910477
No, they would be minor gods.

I'm still having difficulty wrapping my mind around what Twilight castes are actually supposed to be/do.

>>43910554
They inquisit, discover, research, delve, organize and meddle.

>>43910554
Sorcerers, sages, exorcists, doctors, detectives, to name a few.

>>43910554
Glorious Solar Accountants (bureacracy)

Characters from CSI: Creation (Investigation)

House S.E. ((Solar Exalt) Medicine)

etc.

>>43910568
>>43910570

Thanks, that's more straightforward.

>>43910594
Yeah. Basically their job is to be the brainy guy of the group.

>>43910589
>CSI: Creation
I would watch the hell out of this.

Remind me again why Infernal's aren't in the core book?

>>43910773
Because they suck

>>43910773
Same reason they've never been in any core book.

>>43910773

Why would they be? Even setting aside that the whole POINT is that they were a secret, unknown thing sprung on a Creation that was already reeling from the return of the Solars, their book is probably going to be towards the end again, so putting them in core would be even more of a useless tease than usual.

>>43910818
Which one's that?

>>43910835
>>43910831

>>43910831
>Even setting aside that the whole POINT is that they were a secret, unknown thing sprung on a Creation that was already reeling from the return of the Solars

They are, but they aren't a "secret, unknown thing" to the players or the ST. They'd fit more in the core book than the fucking Liminals, at least. You know, those things that are Exalted basically "Because I said so" despite being nothing like the other Exalted and serve no narrative purpose being Exalted?

>>43910873
>They'd fit more in the core book than the fucking Liminals, at least.
Not really. Liminals are much more known in setting, players should know about them.

>>43910873
>They are, but they aren't a "secret, unknown thing" to the players or the ST.

Only because you played 2e

>>43910873
>they aren't a "secret, unknown thing" to the players or the ST
Why shouldn't they? What is gained if Players OOC know what Infernals are if they can't play them? What is lost if Players don't know what exactly Infernals are?

Infernals are so vanishingly rare in Creation compared to Liminals the vast majority of games will never run into them.

>>43910873
>They are, but they aren't a "secret, unknown thing" to the players or the ST.

A stance you only take because you played 2E. In 3E, the plot rolls back. They absolutely were and are intended to be a secret, unknown thing to the players, and there wouldn't be enough space to make them a useful tool to the ST yet, so no inclusion.

> They'd fit more in the core book than the fucking Liminals, at least.

The difference being Liminals actually ARE a known thing to Creation. Not an incredibly widespread knowledge, but they aren't intentionally operating in secrecy or intended to be a last-minute "WHOA SHIT" in the same way Infernals are.

There's also the question of how set in stone Infernals are for 3E. They've already changed their plans from the KS preview at least once, and the only things I'm certain of are that Lillun and the Reclamation are both going away.

>>43911059
Damn shame I wanted to splatter Lillun again. Also did any of those metaplot comics ever conclude Lillun's dad coming to Maltheas?

>>43911108
Well, nothing says you can't have that garbage in your campaign. The ST does have the latitude to tweak the setting.

Last time I ran 2.5, I tossed out the Reclamation & Infernals as a whole. It was fun, and they were not missed.

I respect demons as a setting element a lot more lately, but RotSE was horribly off putting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU8j86wi6aI
Would the Life Fibers work as a Yozi within Malfeas, or drifting around above Cecylene?

>>43909769

yes

>>43911268
RoTSE was only good for the cover art which gave me fun for shooping stuff.

Helping her dad is oddly more compelling than the official "adventure" which was helping Waifu McRedhead do something I can't remember because Exalted NPCs are for bullying

>>43911356
Would fit better as a behemoth IMHO

>>43911356
I'd probably make them a 3CD of Cece or Swillin, honestly.

They could work as a Yozi, I guess, but what the fuck would the demons be?

>>43911415
>>43911422
Your ideas are way better than mine.

>>43911422
>but what the fuck would the demons be?
goku uniforms

>>43911518
Work better artifacts made from the demon, with Senketsu having Sapience

>>43911556
>made from the demon
With materials taken from the demon, that is, not 3CD-azoth or w/e

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>>43910773
Because they aren't a core exalt type.

Same reason all of the other shit-tier Exalts didn't make it into the core book, Liminals being a notable exception.

Liminals are Holden's fanwank Promethean expys, so he's making them an integral part of the setting. I guess. Right now I'm ignoring them entirely.

But it's always worked this way. Solars and Lunars are the hero or anti-villain splats. Sidereals, DBs, and Abyssals are the anti-hero or villain splats. There's a lot of flexibility in that dynamic, obviously, because the villains in a Siddy campaign could easily be Solars. While an Abyssal campaign might get Lunars and DBs as their primary antagonists. The key thing that marks these as unique is they are integral to how the metaplot functions. Without them, the metaplot collapses.

Without Infernals nothing happens to the Yozi. They just make more bargains with gullible Solars and Lunars.

Without Alchemicals nothing happens.

Etc.

Exigents are a game function splat; they will allow STs to custom manufacture solid opponents for their circles. I'm sure some people will play Exigent games and that's cool too, I guess, but really not the point.

Sidereals are best Exalts

>>43911711
Sidereals? What's that?

>>43911743

Don't worry about it, my Solar friend

>>43911770
What's a Solar? Is that why I glow orange when I ejaculate?

>>43911783
No. That's a disease.

>>43910283
Kitsune are fox gods.
Spirits and gods are the same thing in weabooland.
What are you even doing here if you don't know Basics?

>>43911268
As much as I fucking love Infernals, lot of their fluff was shitrape tier.
RotSE was okay for a look on how Empire might react and some stuff like that, and the metaphysical family cast off ritual, but not much else.

>>43911892
>and the metaphysical family cast off ritual,

Now you've got me imagining Kamen Rider Heshiesh, normally weighed down by his heirloom red Jade armor, but he can forsake his lineage and tear it aside to get a POWAHHH BOOST.

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>>43911711
Sure, and Creation turns around the Sun.
Pull the other one.

>>43911711

Once there was a Maiden
She looked at the stars with awe
And from the bottom of her heart worshiped them
One day she she looked at the sun before it set and was blinded
One night she looked at the moon instead of the stars and was ravished
"Stargazing is Folly" she said

>>43912513
>One day she she looked at the sun before it set and was blinded
That was stupid of her
>One night she looked at the moon instead of the stars and was ravished
She looked at the Moon? In Creation? Well she deserved to get ravished then.

>>43912513

'Least stargazing doesn't result in you fucking goats, like the moon's kids.

>>43912597
To be fair the sutra DOES start with her thinking "Stars r best". So shes not a very smart maiden from the get go

>>43912670
And, given that this is Creation, the idea that she is a maiden through and through is probably hearsay.

>>43910129
>enlightened mortals don't exist in 3e
They do. Mist, The Eternal Revolutionary is one, changed by the Wyld. He has actual magical powers but is still a human albeit reduced to living stereotype. Also, one Western locale mentions that certain forge goddess takes youths from her worshipers and train them in the arts of blacksmiths. They can stay with her and are changed in doing so, with skin like bronze and eyes like coals. So yeah, there are still magical mortals, but there are no easy ways of mass-producing them like in 2E.

What do people think about a Thrown charm that lets you use Defend Other with your weapon?

>>43912972
How? Why?

>>43913156
I'm assuming you throw a weapon with such accuracy you parry or deflect the blows intended for someone else?

>>43913156
You throw a knife that intercept and arrow or sword stroke. I'm not sure if you use your normal parry or a parry calculated from your Thrown score.
>>43913197
Yes.

>>43913156
Maybe reflexive disarming just before the attack connects?

Or a Thrown clash?

>>43913214
If it's your normal parry, then it's a charm that could necessitate a dip in either brawl or melee to have the umph necessary to be useful.

>>43913247
Yeah, that sounds good thanks.

>>43913214
Thrown parry has a nice flavor. Kind of esoteric, but charms to do impossible shit are neat.

>>43913246
That sounds like a cool follow up.

I'm trying to put together an Exalt who began as a singer but now can barely talk due to her throat being slashed. I'm struggling with any sort of interesting plot point to kickstart her exaltation and such though.

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>>43913616
Why'd her throat get slashed? If she were injured defending another, or standing up to an oppressor, that could be grounds for Dawn or Zenith Exaltation.

If she traded her voice away (say to a demon, god, or elemental) to purchase safety for others, for forbidden knowledge, or to bring about her vengeance, that could be Eclipse, Twilight or Night.

>>43913616
Using stealth and trickery they took revenge on their attempted murderer?

She investigated it herself and managed to track down her attempted murderer and brought him/her/it to justice?

Her attempted murderer was a high ranking nobleman who's advances she spurned, so she challenged him to a duel and defeated him in valorous single combat?

>>43913764
>>43913810

I'd originally been thinking Zenith, but trading her voice in an accord is actually really interesting. More so than just being injured.

>>43912513
>totally forgot about all the shit tier poetry Holden and Morke probably wrote

oh god i want to get off but i can't get off oh god

>>43914578
Holden and Morke didn't write Sidereals. Is there nothing more to your life than memes?

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>>43915069
They did for 3e.

Stop. Defending. Criminals.

Exalted is art crime.

>>43915136
Except they don't have a book for Ex3, and there are no sutras in the core book.

Have you considered observing the real world rather than inventing your own?

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Reminder to put trigger warnings on your OPP forum posts.

>>43916302
"Maybe fuck right off" is the correct answer to that post.

>>43916302
Link?

>>43915136
>They did for 3e.

No, they didn't.

Are you retarded or just getting this wrong on purpose? Or both?

>>43916450
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/exalted/773342-the-realm-and-3e

So Brawl has a weakness of having low defences and not being able to handle multiple opponents at one time. What other weaknesses does it have? If you're to fight a Brawler in single combat and you yourself don't use Brawl, how would you stack the deck in your favour?

>>43916961

1) Make it too expensive or impossible to clash you.
2) Negate or avoid letting him build up a big onslaught penalty.
3) Bait him into swinging hard and no-sell it with a perfect. Brawl can go harder than any other Ability, but it pays every mote for it.
4) Distance. Brawl can KIND OF deal with distance, but mostly it leans on its fuckbuddy Athletics to help it out.

>>43917116

So if I'm going for Melee, I should build off of Bulwark Stance and Solar Counterattack? What's a good way to fuck with clash attacks?

>>43917223

Sounds like a plan to me.

>>43917223

Excellent Strike and Hail Shattering Practice

>>43913616
Play Transistor

>>43913616

While being heckled for her injury by an old adversary, the stress drives her to break through old barriers. A mortal practitioner of Nightingale Style, she discovers a way to channel her kata through the medium of mime. After a series of rude gestures and a brief spell pretending to be trapped inside an invisible box, she routs her foe, and her achievement blessed by Sol Invictus.

>>43919380
Mime Nightingale practitioner. I am not sure whether this is awesome or abominable.

How much does the average, newly made Alchemical Exalt weigh? I mean, they're mostly made of metal and claylike substances, but they arent a solid brick of metal like a daiklave would be.

>>43920602

They're "attuned," so they weigh basically the same as a person, same way a daiklave weighs basically as much as a sword until you don't want it to.

>>43920602
Taking your premise as a base, they're probably a few times larger by volume than a suit of artifact armor, but with about the same magical metal content. Artifact armor is fucking heavy. Exalts are able to move while wearing it mainly because it's attuned to their essence.

If some Jade Caste wants to cross a rope bridge, she'd better have some appropriate charms. Or supernaturally strong ropes and anchors.

>>43920703
Actually, you're wrong.
A daiklave *always* weighs a fuckton, it's just that attuning to it makes it lighter to the wielder. They're still heaving around a heavy ass blade, and attuning doesn't make the blade any lighter.

Unless of course you call on Rule of Cool to let them balance on a flimsy board with a daiklave in hand.

>>43920856
>Rule of Cool
Or, y'know, Graceful Crane Stance.

Man I'm trying to make a character for a friend's PBP and I'm having severe trouble picking a concept and settling. So much is neat.

>>43922193
>PBP
I'm sorry, what?

>>43923073
Play by post. Forum gaming

>>43923253
Ahhhh. This explains things.

>>43922193
Be a Dawn fight-man who fights.

That at least is simple.

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>>43923376
>Fight-man who fights.
I don't know why me and my friend thought this so funny but we did. Thanks anon.

>>43922193
The black sheep son of a Dynast who went Solar trying to match up against his dragonblooded siblings and cousins. For maximum family issues, have him be the son of someone truly dangerous, like one of the Cynis heads, or Mnemon, or Red herself.

>>43923396
Yeah, I'm basically the coolest and the smartest.

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>>43923434
Yeah, I've already decided the basic backstory is my dude's a non DB from Cynis because playboy mansluts own.

I just don't know how to pick a focus for the actual mechanical stuff. Like, every charm tree fucking rocks and has cool shit, a bunch of the martial arts are neat, etc.

>>43923499
>Sex charms cap at E1.
I dunno what to say, man. That was gonna be my suggestion but you can dip TWO FUCKING CHARMS from virtually any build.

Though you could go supernal Socialize and have Bodhissatva Give Em The D use persona shenanigans to set up liaisons and get away afterwards.

>>43923593
I asked the GM if I could have the sexy pants from that one 2e april fools thing but he said no.

But yeah, social is probably gonna be my supernal either way.

>>43923593
>"Well well, just walked through the door and already presenting."
Wait...what am I doing? Dylan Fuentes would clearly be an Abyssal...I'm an idiot.

>>43923901
>the sexy pants from that one 2e april fools thing but he said no.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOqODU5TEwg

>>43924146
Well, there was a guy actually worshiped as the Bodhisattva of love affairs, though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariwara_no_Narihira

Famous poet, notorious philanderer, reputed to have brought women closer to nirvana with the oneness of his maleness. No joke.

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>>43924162
Scroll of Swallowed Darkness. It was originally an april fools joke but exalted fans are terrible enough it was made into a real book.

It's basically full of retarded sex shit like parrying weapons with bodily orifices and the aforementioned pants that make you sexier. I think my favorite thing from it was a charm or maybe sorcery, I forget, that let you fuck anything. The example was a Twilight that fell in love with a mountain. Not like, the god of the mountain, or that shit, the physical mountain itself.

So he made the thing so he could fuck the mountain.

Solars in the first age got fucked up.

>>43922193
>>43923376
Just be One Punch Man. That's what all the cool kids are doing these days, right?

>>43924256
The MA Style only goes up to the Form charm but was actually mechaically sound and complimented Solar Hero well

>>43924256
I don't think it was ever actually made into a real book anon.

>>43924256
It was an artifact by the way

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>>43924256
>it was made into a real book.

No, it wasn't. It never went farther than an April Fool's joke. It is pretty telling, though, that most of the NSFW art used for it was simply licensed from fans and official artists.

>>43915977
>>43916503
They claimed they wrote all the charmsets at once so they wouldn't be out of whack with each other.

Are you saying they lied?

>>43923376
This is a terrible idea for PbP where the goal will be to minimize combat which takes weeks via PbP.

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>>43913616
Basically the premise of Transistor. It's best game and Red is best girl.
I actually statted her for the homebrew folder.

How would a Solar Exalted fare in Nanoha, if one Exalted before the first season and stuck around for the rest of them (unless dead)?

>>43924944
Chargen, established or elder?

You know, I think that a Twilight using Craft to make a Pipboy would probably be more interesting than mass-producing Warstriders.

>>43924961
Let's say Exalts at the beginning of/slightly before the first season?

>>43925037
What's the AVERAGE power level of the setting? Both magic, combat and intelligence wise.

Has anyone mentioned here that one of OPP's freelancers got booted for complaining about the Ex3 art, after being blamed for the leak?

>>43923224

>>43925061
Yeah, its been all over two WoD Generals.

>>43925055
>magic & combat
Everything's magitech.
Spells used in combat are mostly non-lethal because mc are kids/cops/kidcops, though their power level varies from levelling half the city to scouring a planet to bedrock. But they're largely strongest magi in the setting, barring the antoganist of the season (season 2s being the kid who does to bedrock. Then she got befriended).
Mostly though, they vary in power and training from average to highly skilled, with a large majority in the lower end of spectrum in power and skill.
They use magic for everything, from running computers to running dimension travelling spaceships.

>intelligence
Eh, pretty normal. The higher up rank you go the more qualified people you get, though EVERYONE has a tendency to shoot first, argue, shoot more, lose to Nanoha, spill their guts, get Befriended by her, and then get helped by her.

>>43925131
Any even moderately competent Solar Exalt would conquer the setting within the decade.

The average PLAYER of a Solar might not, but then, many players are not good at planning, subtlety, deception, threat evaluation or creative problem solving.

>>43925061

I just read through this now. Holy fuck.

This only solidifies my original plan. If OPP makes a DB kickstarter they're not getting a dime. If they release a book on time and the quality is good? I'll actually donate to future kickstarters.

>>43925312
And presumably happily pirate all their shit?

>>43926615
Of course. You have to find out if it's good or not somehow.
Whether to use it if it's bad is a different matter.

>>43925020
Those were basically in 2e, already. They were called Resplendent Assistants or some such. Basically essence powered smart watches, so more or less a Pipboy.

>>43926652
fairy nuff. I assume you could also make a Mr Handy if you wanted to.

>>43926673
I AM?

>>43927023
That makes absolutely no sense to me.

>>43924757
Some of the art used in it got cropped and shoved into other books, even.
Glories: Maidens, iirc, has an image that cuts off just above the see-through cock veil in the original, for example

>>43926673
Remember that that's 2e, in 3e shit like that is not gonna fly.

Mr Handy can be basically any spirit familiar, bound spirit, or a spirit specifically created for that purpose.

>>43927065
The AI from First Age

>>43925061
She was also blamed for the Beast leak, but frankly criticizing the art privately shouldn't be grounds for termination, and the only reason she's been blamed for the leaks is because she happens to post on 4chan.

>>43928130
>and the only reason she's been blamed for the leaks is because she happens to post on 4chan.
She herself called it 'a series of coincidences'. Clearly there's more to it than we know.

>>43928578
She also mentioned that it wasn't the third strike, it was the 15th.

>>43909775
No one have any thoughts on this?

Okay, I've been looking around and I finally give up. What the hell are the themes for 3E Lunars? Do we still not know? Christ.

>>43929300
http://avatarcomic.net/exalted-wiki/Exalts#Lunars
transformation, change, rage, physicality, instinct

>>43929360
>The most annoying thing about Lunars, any edition so far is that their main schtick, shapeshifting, is one big mechanical void and completely disconnected from their charm set. (Yama Dai O)
>"It's bad that this splat has distinct and unique magic, which can lend them a playstyle nobody else can emulate." (Holden)
God, holy shit I hate this faggot.

>>43929452
I keep saying that they need a dedicated and competent PR guy, because fucking hell the devs can't do it for shit.

>>43929452
Why be this dickish about stuff?

>>43929523
I can forgive being a dick, if he actually read and understood the fucking question. Instead he deliberately misinterprets the point.

>>43929509
Everything about Exalted 3e's development made me laugh, but now I'm in an Ex3 game and thinking of running one of my own in the future and it's not funny any more.

>>43929452
I don't think there's anyone in this thread who would piss on Holden if he was on fire. The only argument comes from people who call everything he worked on shit just because he is.

>>43929586
It was cool when somebody on RPG.net posted houserules for using BP instead of XP and he got really mad and posted his own, worse houserules for advancement.

>>43929617
They looked ok to me

>>43929681
They were fine, it's just funny that he's spent so long railing against the idea of getting rid of XP and refusing to offer "bad rules just because people think they want them" and then the moment somebody posts a half-functional hack to use BP alone he rushes in with that.

What is the best defensive style for MA?

>>43929360
Okay I read all of this and I still don't understand what differentiates Lunars thematically from "Solars, but with shapeshifting."

I mean, take some barbarian raider living up in the North, or a princeling in the Hundred Kingdoms, or a merchant in the West or whatever. Give them an Exaltation. How will things differ if they're a Lunar versus if they're a Solar, in terms of the form of their stories? Obviously the Lunar princeling turns into a dragon to overthrow his father and seize the throne, while the Solar one just stabs him, but beyond that kind of thing, what's the difference supposed to be?

>>43930608
As of 3E? If said princeling hates the Realm, the Lunar would probably ally with him out of mutual distaste for the Scarlet Empire.

>>43930761
Wait I screwed up and thought the Lunar was the Princeling.

Your example is oddly specific though, almost any Exalt would usurp their mortal parent if there was enough animosity.

>>43930800
Well, I mean if an Abyssal overthrows his dad he has to deal with Resonance and stuff. An Infernal has to deal with the yozi. Dragon-Blooded have much more access to institutions and legitimacy because they're not Anathema. Sidereals fade from memory. Liminals are just born, Exigents have their patrons, etc.

What do Lunars have that separates them like that?

>>43930860
The Lunars also have an institution: The Silver Pact.

>>43930909
Isn't the Silver Pact an incredibly weak and loose affiliation, though?

>>43931089
Sure, but it still influences how the Lunars act, even if it's just a desire to stay away from it.

I want to build a night caste and was thinking of going the ninja route, stealth supernal and thrown. Does that build work an different yes can someone point me to specific charms on how to make it work?

>>43929586
I realize it's a figure of speech, but it seems to me that the most likely result of pissing on someone who is on fire is that they remain on fire... and also smell like pee.

The way some people talk about him, one would think they'd be lining up.

>>43930194
Crane Style

>>43931538
>specific charms on how to make it work?
Buy Stealth and Thrown charms. The synergy between the two is so powerful that you could make a character capable of one-hitting their foes without even trying.

If you're feeling cheesy, look at the Thrown and Stealth charms based on Join Battle.

>>43931560
It's a reference to Gulliver's Travels you plebeian.

>>43931605
Fuck you. That only worked for Gulliver because he was in fucking Lilliput.

>>43925061
All that drama.

Glad Amy's airing that stuff out now, while the decision is still pending with Paradox. They need to know what kind of batshit they're getting in. Trinity of the Prodigal Developers, Exalted of the Douchebag Developers, Onyx Path of Questionable Decisions (new martial art).

>>43926615
When you pirate what you won't pay for, you double their loss. That's putting the screws to 'em.

Does anyone here remember who drew up the Red Panda Lunar image that was circulating around here about a year ago?
I want to thank them and ask them to draw up more of them...

>>43932443
Oh, plus airing all the dirty shit other people might not hear, while offering them the links to pirate as well.

>>43932417
I don't care if they're douchebags as long as they unfuck the other splats.

>>43932508
wat

>>43932518
"I don't care if they're Nazis, as long as they fix my car."

>>43932690
But enough about Volkswagen

>>43932690
They are just game developers not nazis, for fucks sake. Maybe shitty ones, maybe dickish ones, but don't try to stand on some kind of moral highground and spark deranged, self-entitled "crusade" against them. We had one guy just like that here and he was insane, talked like some kind of Homestuck troll or anime villain.

>>43932518
Projecting from their previous work it will take them approximately seventeen years to get to Lunars, the mechanics will be overwrought and cludged together, and probably the themes will be better in some ways and worse in others.

>>43932690
Well, more like "I don't care if they have a shitty attitude as long as they fix my car."

Pretty sure I draw the line at the devs committing ethnic cleansing.

>>43932606
Shit like this Amy thing, or just how generally shitastic Holden and Morke have been to fans.

>>43932882
Oh, yeah. I was just confused by the non sequitur.

Yeah I've already made it clear to Paradox I won't be paying for anything from Onyx Path ever. I will certainly be playing them, however. Sucks for them, as I spent probably a thousand bucks all told. They'll never see another red cent.

>>43932795
It won't take as long, I think given the core rules are complete.

Plus I like 3E overall.

>>43933022
A thousand bucks? Did you get any custom rewards?

>>43933185
I'm hoping to get the custom refund reward.

Seeming more and more like I'll have to file a complaint with my AG, though.

>>43929723
>bad rules just because people think they want them
This was an actual quote in case you were wondering, Anon of >>43929681

>>43933573
I hate him so much.

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>>43933205
>I'll have to file a complaint with my AG, though.

Oh God, are you one of the illiterates from the Ex3 KS comments ranting about class action?

I can't decide if I want Onyx Path to bend over immediately so you can leave the fandom forever, or if I want them to decline so that some poor clerk has to patiently explain to you over and over why you have no legal leg to stand on.

>>43932690
You mentioned the Nazi's. You have lost this argument according to Godwin's Law

>>43933573
I know it's an actual quote, just that his house rules seemed decent.

>>43933632
>thinking he'd actually leave if he got a refund
You know that isn't how it works. The Two Minutes Hate is a daily ritual.

>>43932473

There are a lot of Red Panda images, do you have it on hand? We can't exactly tell you who made it, if we don't have the image.

>>43933883
He would get a refund and then continue to play Exalted for free, as it is trivial to steal a copy of an RPG book.

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>>43933573

>>43933999
what a dastardly scheme

>>43933632
Are you the kind of idiot who doesn't know how AG consumer complaints work? I believe you are.

Let me lay it out for you.

1. There must be a contract of record. That doesn't necessarily mean a signed document, but there has to be some sort of record that lays out the services or items to be delivered and the timeline. A Kickstarter meets the criterion.

2. You must show an attempt to resolve the dispute from your side. That means keeping a record of your contacts with the business owner. In this era of electronic communication, that's pretty trivial.

3. A lack of effort on the part of the business owner to resolve the problem you have with the product or service. Being 3 years late, as an example, would be demonstrative of a lack of effort on the business owner's part. "Partial delivery" is not considered an effort in most cases.

It's a tool. The desired outcome is a refund. The AG complaint is leverage.

It's like you don't even know how the real world works.

>>43933966
i.imgur.com/Jmf7nVA.png
Is the one I'm looking for.
Image searches just send me back to a thread of the general a year ago, and I can't find it on any booru.

Kill Six Billion Demons - could the Art be done with rules for sorcery?

>>43934258
Yes, but the spells should be even weirder and more esoteric.

How much would it mess up Exalted's setting to have Creation be Gaia, the Five Elemental Dragons/Poles be her souls, and the elementals her devas?

>>43934201

Looks like it was made by Tamyra, judging by the art style. No returns on any search engine, though. It just comes back here.

http://tamyra.deviantart.com/
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/tamyra/
http://nicoleships.tumblr.com/
http://catstits.tumblr.com/

Last one is NSFW.

>>43934507
First age crazy solars might try to lobotomize her to protect her from any danger.

Abyssals job becomes much easier in the modern day.

Sorcerous workings might mean you are literally rewriting Gaia.

Actually, if you do a reality level sorcerous working in hell are you performing surgery on the Yozis?

>>43933683

You mentioned Godwin's Law without actually knowing what it says. You're a retard.

>>43935389
Never debated in an official setting have you? That's fine. I'll let you live in ignorance.

>>43935449

Strangely, people in official settings don't call each other niggerfuckers either. One of the many ways in which 4chan and official settings are actually different.

>>43935449
Godwin's Law isn't used in official debates either, you philistine.

Godwin's Law merely posits that internet arguments will continue to escalate until someone says Nazis.

So help me with history. The bull of the north exalted while the empress was still on the throne, started doing things, and got the realms attention. The actual battle that ruined Tepet happened after her disappearance right?

>>43936225
that's correct enough to not substantively matter on the points that it may be wrong

I want to bully Lilith and collect her tears

>>43936793
Who?

>>43937416
The owl furry elder lunar mascot

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>>43937416

One of the Lunars. 1,500 years old, survived the Usurpation, ducked into the Wyld afterwards. Mostly known for being the oft abused wife of Desus, who beat her so hard that she miscarried a baby.

She's looking to meet up with Swan, who is Desus' successor, ostensibly to talk to him but she'll probably just murder him.

>>43937504
>who beat her so hard that she miscarried a baby

I never got the how of this, Desus didn't have much in the way of combat charms (for a first age Solar anyway) he was focused on mindrape. The fuck did he get through Lillith's soak enough to cause a miscarriage? Its not like she can turn that off no matter how much she "loved" him

>>43937661

Bigger fish bullshit.

Desus originally-originally just started out as "that asshole what punched out a cyclops."

But since he was an easy go-to, more and more douchey behavior got ascribed to him, until reality and logic itself warped to ascribe MORE evil bullshit to him.

He was like the Band-Aid/bandage-moment of First Age Lore; the first guy with a name, so he became the face of an entire category of dumb shit.

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>>43937492
>>43937504
Oh.
THAT guy. Well, girl in this case?
Deus did nothing wrong, cunt.
Quit your whining.

>>43937661

I'm fairly sure that it was just shit someone wrote to paint him as evil. Remember, early on the most heinous thing he did was sucker punch a guy during negotiations, something that still had a good outcome in the long term. It's only that someone reused Desus when writing about bad shit that happened during the First Age, and then every other writing kept using him for stupid, heinous shit.

>>43937730

Desus is the Solar husbando, Lilith is the Lunar waifu.

>>43937661
Solar 2e 'brawl'charms were some straight up bullshit.

>>43937768
>Desus is the Solar husbando, Lilith is the Lunar waifu.
Yes, and?

>>43937833

You said "THAT guy. Well, girl in this case?" so I thought you were confused?

On topic; What's Thrown good for? I see good JB charms and Stealth synergy, but what if I didn't pick up Stealth? What else does it have going it going for it?

>>43937987

Even without Stealth, Thrown makes for a fucking great opening volley, and doesn't demand a lot of "time" in a fight. For example it's hard to mix Archery and Brawl because they both want a lot of your combat actions, while Thrown just sneaks in an extra "get fuckt" now and then when you want it to.

Lobbing a javelin or two to wound your enemy before you close to melee (or filling his face with shuriken from point-blank) is a good way to lead off a fight.

If nothing else, you get to see what kind of defensive Charms he has before getting close enough that he can make it difficult to run away.

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Desus did nothing wrong

>>43938122

Cool thanks, I was wondering what two combat abilities to pick up if I'm dropping War. Is Melee and Archery any good?

>>43938171

Both are good individually, as a combo they have some highlights, but they aren't super synergistic. Archery and Melee both focus on decisive attacks, so neither one is really lending itself to generating initiative for you.

That said, Archery always appreciates having a back-up skill that makes closing into melee against you a bad idea, and Melee makes it a fucking TERRIBLE idea to get close, even and especially if you're trying to gang up on the guy. And as the close combat skills go, Melee is more mobile, and Archery loooves being mobile.

>>43938288

Thanks for the help. Melee does seem to offer the most and depend on other abilities the least.

One more question, which do you think is better? Mastering Single Point and dipping Steel Devil or mastering Steel Devil and dipping Single Point?

>>43938385

I would probably master Single Point, dip Steel Devil, but that's just on gut instinct. The value of having a complete second turn in combat cannot be understated, and Steel Devil has some fun tricks, but it takes a bit of luck to really see Devil take off, while Single Point is more reliable.

>>43934551
Her FA and SFW tumblr don't have the image in question.
Sent her a message in DA and FA.
Am I being too annoying in these posts?

Hate to ask, but would anyone mind giving their opinion on the balance of a homebrew artifact? If it works and people like it I can throw it into the homebrew folder.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DL9klOGhQnipOOPm9J6N1fmtMAqZlmQCs__kSD3Sn3A/edit?usp=sharing

>>43940114

I think the destruction of a weapon/shield should be a disarm gambit that destroys the item instead of disarming, rather than being automatic.

Also, the Flexing attribute allowing attacks out to short range seems a bit cheap. Sandstorm Wind Attack does a similar thing, but costs 2.5 times as many motes, and 2 initiative. I think the design intent is to allow the occasional long-range attack by melee weapons, but not to have them spammable.

>>43940248

*nod* I modeled that after Glorious Solar Saber, since it's in the Essence 2 power level as well, although I do like your idea!

That's one of the thing that concerned me, I kept swapping it from 2m to 4m. I ended up with 2 since you HAVE to use the motes generated by the artifact itself, which is ~2-3 per round, so using the short range attack uses almost to all of your mote generation that could also be used for other charms. Do you think 4m would be better with that in mind?

Thank you for the feedback!

>>43940347
>*nod* I modeled that after Glorious Solar Saber, since it's in the Essence 2 power level as well

Fair enough, although Molten Sun Blade has a total cost of 5m, 2wp and a simple action, since GSS itself needs to be activated before it can be used. I just don't like automatically successful stuff in general.

> That's one of the thing that concerned me, I kept swapping it from 2m to 4m. I ended up with 2 since you HAVE to use the motes generated by the artifact itself, which is ~2-3 per round, so using the short range attack uses almost to all of your mote generation that could also be used for other charms. Do you think 4m would be better with that in mind?

I'd keep the lower cost, but chuck an initiative cost on as well. The fact that only stored motes could be used hadn't occurred to me as a balancing mechanism.

I'd suggest renaming the resource from "motes" to something else to avoid confusion - like Steel Devil's charge or White Reaper's halos, or Volcano Cutter's eruption points

>>43936271
what points is it wrong on?

Does anyone have that poorly drawn picture of an Immaculate facing down a massive Solar and saying 'My breeding is superior'?

>>43940733

Good points, I like your idea of a disarm gambit to break, I'm going to toss that in, along with 2i cost on Flexing.

I called it motes because it was modeled after Volcano Cutter, although Momentum works as well.

Anyone want to share their 2e house rules? I've got a huge list of them that I use and I was curious to see what other people's are.

>>43942299
It's really just a post-it that says 'play Ex3'.

>>43942299
Let's see.. Well me and my players like to jump right into the fun so.

1. Free Excellencies for all favored/caste abilities with at least 1 dot in them.
2. 10 extra charms at startup.
3. Artifacts and Manses rated 4+ require storyteller permission.
4. Virtues cannot be raised with XP, they are freely raised based on how your character acts. (Subject to player and storyteller agreement. We don't force someone above a rating of 3 if we don't both agree.)
5. No starting above essence 3.
6. Countermagics are free.
7. (Came around after 3e was leaked and we had lunars/infernals in the group so we didn't want to move to 3e just yet.) 3e Sorcery move over, including workings. Control spells are moved over as closely as possible. Homebrew is used on ones that don't exist.
8. Excess Craft roll successes count as an extra hour worked. This can mean extra rolls on a single interval. (Yeah, we didn't much care for long craft times.

>>43942299
Oh, I forgot, highest virtue is what is rolled for Willpower regeneration. We have people who like to min-max. Unfortunately this tended to lead to lots of CONVICTION characters. Usually played like murder hobos. This lead to more interesting characters that weren't just conviction 4 or 5.

>>43942353

Seems we have similar views! Here are mine, they're rather extensive I think.

Infinite Mastery (and equivalents) in *one* combat ability of their choice is given to PCs for free at Essence 4.

Onslaught penalties are removed from the game.

Onslaught penalties cannot reduce your targeted Defense Value lower than half its total rating.

ALL Extra Action charms give (Rate+1) attacks instead of what is listed. Dual wielding identical weapons adds +1 to this value, for an effective (Rate+2) when using an Extra Action charm.

Perfect Defenses can only be used as many times as Virtue rating associated with its Flaw of Invulnerability. Once per scene, a Perfect Defense can be used as a non-charm activation when expending the Virtue Channel of its associated Virtue. Restoring Virtue Channels via magic, charms or other means does not reset this.

Non-perfect defense, non-Excellency charms that enhance Defense Values or remove/negate Defense Value penalties may be used Reflexively outside of a combo.

(Exalted) Player Characters soak both Lethal and Bashing with their full Stamina. Earth-Aspects and Jade-Castes instead reduce post-soak damage by 1 die when using their Anima power.

(Exalted) Player Characters add their (Essence) rating to their armor soak value. This does not stack with Charms that add to their armor soak values; instead, the Exalt chooses the greater of the two bonuses.

(Exalted) Player Characters receive additional -0 health levels awarded based on Stamina rating.

Ox-Body Technique costs at (Prerequisite) XP cost and scales by 1 for every purchase (i.e. 1+2+3+4+5) to incentivize its purchase.

One weapon and one mundane armor can be chosen at chargen for free regardless of what the character's Resource background rating is.

>>43942418

(con't)

>Onslaught penalties cannot reduce your targeted Defense Value lower than half its total rating. <--- scratch this I forgot to remove it

Unexpected Attacks can only be preformed with weapons that have a damage value on their profile equal to or lower than 4 dice (BEFORE modifiers from Magical Materials or other sources.)

Combos can be generated spontaneously as a Reflexive action without the need to spend experience points. Using combos in this way costing 1 willpower and otherwise operate like normal combos.

Charm experience costs are (Prerequisite Ability/Attribute + Essence); Infernal charms instead cost (3 + Essence) experience points instead. Excellencies, Augmentations, and so on cost a flat rate of 8xp.

Every Exalted character uses Solar/Abyssal/Infernal Exalted experience tables. Exalted such as Lunars and Alchemicals retain their favored attribute bonus of (rating x3) when purchasing Attributes.

Sorcery initiation charms can be purchased at Essence 2.

Players cannot raise Essence with experience; instead it raises by one point every 100xp gained after character creation, or earlier at the ST's discretion as a reward.

All Exalted characters begin play with 10 charms.

Every player gains the experience rewarded on behalf of a 3-dice stunt.

Players receive 90xp at character creation instead of bonus points. Backgrounds, mutations, etc. are purchased at a rate of 3xp per dot.

>>43942418
>>43942420
Interesting. I guess I also forgot that for doing especially spectacular things that really resonate with your characters motivation and concept, Permanent essence can be raised above 5. We like to get crazy.

>>43942420

(con't)

Natural weapons, Punches, Kicks, Clinches, and bashing weapons such as hammers, mauls, Goremauls and Grand Goremauls can opt to use their Strength in calculating their Attacking dice pools. Charms and equipment that enhance a character's Strength rating do not count toward the attacking dice pool when used in this manner.

Characters may calculate Dodge and Parry Defense Value using the higher of Dexterity or Wits.

Characters may calculate Archery attacks using Perception or Dexterity, which ever is highest.

Charms that render Defense Values inapplicable in both Combat and Social Combat cannot be used more than once per tick, even when used in a Combo with an Extra Action charm.

>>43942455

Ooh, i'll have to remember that one!

>>43938142
Well mem'd my friend, top kek.

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>>43924944
It really depends on the very definition of magic and essence in your crossover. Is magic essence? Can magic be manipulated like essence? Can essence be transformed into magic? Is Nanoha's sorcery Exalted's sorcery? What is happening with linker cores?

Without much thinking done into that, a S+ Mage is equivalent to an Essence 4/5 Solar Exalt A S+ Mage has access to more destructive power and is faster, but an Essence 4/5 Solar Exalt can dish out the weirdest of powers and is more reliably awesome. One side will nuke at Mach 3 while the other flashtep and evade into close combat. The result will depend on too many factors to be accurately predicted.

Now, I like to think of Nanoha's linker cores as a metaphysical organ that is able to manipulate a very large amount of Essence, though without much finesse. Maybe the result of some first age sorcerous working, an attempt to recreate the Exaltation that failed.

>>43942418
>Earth-Aspects and Jade-Castes instead reduce post-soak damage by 1 die when using their Anima power.
But not Twilights?

>>43942589
I love you

Which do you think has more raw power/mana/Essence (assuming they're the same thing), E4/5 or S+?
Going by the age-old 10 motes being Philosopher's Stone or Excalibur, which I've always thought of as the Nasuverse Excalibur or at least something as/more powerful.

re:linker cores, geeknerd minds think alike?

>>43942614

I don't give a shit about Twilights.

>>43942907
Good taste.

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>>43942726
Look at solar circle's Death Ray, which is roughly equal to divine buster in strength. It is 25 sorcerous motes, which is a lot.

I wouldn't think a S+ mage at having inherent personal essence the way exalts do. Instead, I would think of the linker's core as a very specialized, overpowered Shaping Rituals/metaphysical organ giving you access to a huge number of sorcerous motes. None are internalized and none can be used to power 'charms', but they can be used to power spells.

Belkan's magic has a way to transfer some of these sorcerous motes into internalized motes usable for supernatural martial art, but this is strictly Belkan.

>>43942994
>this is strictly Belkan.
Nanoha's family knows Kung Fu too, though.

>>43942353
"We only changed everything!"

>>43943137

Nah, they kept the mass combat rules as-is

...

...

>>43923434
Man EVERYONE does that. One of the first characters I created was that, he was a member of Ledaal who never exalted despite his strong blood. He ended up attending the Spiral Academy despite being a mortal and passed with high marks (by practically killing himself with studies to stand up to his DB classmates) and then Exalted into an Eclipse in his early 20's when he decided "fuck this bullshit" and stole a shitload of Jade from DB's he was traveling with.

His best friend was a Water Aspect who was a Nellens yet exalted at the age of 10, stunning her family. She and him met at a secondary school. Her exaltation happened when some bullies pushed him into a lake and she dove in to rescue him.

She was honestly way more interesting. She aimed to be a sorcerer, but also became a martial artist as well (her shaping ritual involved martial arts). Her ultimate goal was "Master sorcery and martial arts and surpass all other Terrestrials". She bounced from a bubbly and genki moekawaiiblob to a super-serious sorcerer all the time.

>>43929300
Who the fuck knows. I have no idea why they don't go for "the Jacks-of-all-trades Exalts who can adapt to any situation". Like, a Dawn can smash the fuck out of stuff, and a Twilight can craft world-shaking wonders, but outside of their purview they are pretty damn challenged. A Lunar may not be perfect, but they can adapt to the situation. They're the heroes who always have a backup plan or the villains whose can adapt to anything the heroes try to pull.

Btw, there was a discussion (involving Holden) about whether Lunars should be able to boost damage/soak/appearance bonuses via their excellencies in the irc.
They're afraid that letting the Lunar get a +10 damage withering at the beginning of the battle could be too good and stuff and are leaning towards no.

>>43937504
>One of the Lunars. 1,500 years old, survived the Usurpation, ducked into the Wyld afterwards. Mostly known for being the oft abused wife of Desus, who beat her so hard that she miscarried a baby.

What the actual fuck. I just read her profile in DotFA. When I think of Exalts, especially Lunars, I don't think "battered spouse who meekly does everything her husband says in fear and terror-tinged devotion". Even her picture makes her look like a depressed mortal, not a fucking Lunar. And how can one of the "can-literally-not-die-with-charms" Exalts miscarry from nothing more than physical abuse?

I'm starting to see why the Bond was a terrible idea. It was really only good for "I feel an intense connection to this Abyssal/Infernal but they disgust me WHAT DO" drama anyway.

>>43945332

It was made worse by the Lunar Taming Leash charm, which let a Solar know exactly where their Lunar mate was, communicate with them over long distances, and max out their Solar Bond stat whether they liked it or not.

The Bond will still exist in Ex3, but it'll be toned down and made a two way thing.

>>43945357
Isn't it broken? So you can choose whether you want it to apply to your Lunar or not.

Speaking, do Luna and Sol even do much with each other. I get that the whole idea for the Bond was Sun-Moon duality but they seem to be pretty distant anyway, with Luna caring more about Gaia and Conky being addicted to his Primordial Xbox.

Sometimes I wish this shit weren't scattered in a million 2e books. I've been into Exalted for over a year and I still have sketchy knowledge of a lot of important elements. I'm amazed at the guys and girls who can recite the most obscure canon facts at the drop of a hat.

>>43945406

Yeah, Solars can force the bond on their Lunar mate whether the latter wants it or not. The only thing Lunars really have in their favour is the Golden Widow Method, where they hunt, kill and eat the heart of their Solar mate like they would an animal, and then get a free dot of Essence for a year even if it breaks their age cap.

Here's to hoping that Lunars have a coherent theme for Ex3. Not that I'm a fan, I just want the actual fans to stop bitching.

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>>43945406
The point of the bond was to limit Lunars, not to somehow symbolically show Sol's and Luna's relationship: Conky was buttmad that Luna's chosen could rival his in power, so as king of gods he made Luna do the bond so they wouldn't be able to rebel against the Solars.

Luna was fine with this, because if a Solar went out of line, 1 Lunar was helpless against it, but the other 299 could curbstomp him together just fine.

>>43945476
>Conky was buttmad that Luna's chosen could rival his in power
But Lunars can't rival Solars in power.

>>43945406
>Speaking, do Luna and Sol even do much with each other. I get that the whole idea for the Bond was Sun-Moon duality but they seem to be pretty distant anyway, with Luna caring more about Gaia and Conky being addicted to his Primordial Xbox.
Some relationships are so good because the partners have literally nothing to do with each other most of the time.

>>43945406
>Isn't it broken? So you can choose whether you want it to apply to your Lunar or not.
Yeah, it's broken.
Drove majority of the Lunars mad or something back when it happened.

>>43945528
Yes, but they're supposed to in-setting, even if the mechanics make that functionally impossible.

Abyssals and Infernals are also supposed to be Solar-tier in power. Even though their charms in 2e were complete shit compared to the broken tools Solars got, especially when you take the comically absurd E6+ Solar charms into account.

>>43945684
Similarly, the Dragonblooded were supposed to be the elite soldiers of the solar generals. Something actually worth taking with you into battle, even if each individually was weaker than the solar.

Instead the book gave something so mechanically assfucked that they would never have been made or used, being utterly useless and having numerous charms meant to combat the things of darkness or the wyld that... literally explicitly do not function against such things, nor against things of higher essence, etc, which what they dealt with would have been.

It didn't help that charm design had been fairly vanilla to begin with, and the primary design imperative for non-solars of "it has to be weaker" led to everything always has to must ever always be weaker. Smaller mote pools, higher mote costs, weaker effects, larger drawbacks/restrictions, and eventually abilities that flat out do nothing, or do exactly what rolling a skill would do - with no gains, tricks or advantages whatsoever, in fact possibly even LESS good - but with a mote and/or wp cost.

Then again between some solar charms and the DB and Sidereal books (oh hai martial arts at one end, everything else at the other) 2e basically brought us a mess that would have mechanically ensured the usurpation was flat out, literally impossible, between the social and mental charms, the awareness and mindreading, the giga-detective abilities, the retroactive no-surprises, and a handful of the infinite "I interrupt all of your initiative and join battle rolls with attacks on all of you with infinite magical essence weapons" throwing masters in the deliberative.

tldr; 2e was beyond a fucking mess, broken every which way for everyone, just less so for solars.

>>43945406
The worst fucking part was this wasn't something that, say, for the sake of party and game balance, the SOLAR might buy to apply to a lunar mate in the party, but, instead, rather, the LUNAR player was expected to buy - costing them precious dots - even though it was literally a fucking drawback. You know, a flaw? Those things that are supposed to GIVE you points?

>Luna was fine with this
And like every other "this totally won't be abused" law/rule/etc ever in the history of every universe that's ever had a concept of time, it basically turned directly into relationships like Desus.

>>43945357
>The Bond will still exist in Ex3, but it'll be toned down and made a two way thing.
Source?
I find it hard to believe, since I remember seeing that there's a total of 400 Lunars, while still only 300 Solars. Those numbers don't add up for the Bond still being a thing, unless 100 Lunars are just lucky enough to not have to worry about it at all.

>>43945883
From Stubborn Boar Defense:
>The Solar’s Lunar mate is always capable of insinuating herself into the Solar’s graces and may ignore this Charm’s effect.

>>43945903
From what I can guess, it seems like the Bond is less a thing set in stone with the Exaltations and more a thing that can arise from a consenting Solar and Lunar.

>>43945903
I'm still hopeful the skewed numbers just mean Lunars aren't *inherently* tied to a specific Solar, anymore.

>>43945528
>>43945684
What annoys me the most is the idea of Sol considering the possibility that his Chosen might not be the undeniably best. It just seems out-of-character, too devoid of the self-assured arrogance appropriate for the king of gods.

>>43946086
that IS true...

there's also the 'measure' of how much 'best' they need to be.

Technically a solar could be 5% stronger than a lunar and 10% stronger than a DB, and they'd still be the most powerful, and the DB would still be the 'least' of the three.

I do hope we'll not see a return to the era of "not considering terrestrials 'extras' is slowing down the game and taking away the fun" and "if that charm worked, it would be better than this utterly-retardedly-written solar charm, and therefore it must do nothing yet somehow also cost you more"

>>43946086
Sol is the strongest god of Creation by design. Motherfucker has a right to be arrogant, especially after he freed the gods by empowering the people who murdered the fucking creators of the goddamn universe.

>>43946146
You did not understand anon's point.

We all know Sol is arrogant as fuck.

But things that arrogant do not have an inferiority complex about the things they fucking made.

All those fears and worries and demands that the others be weakened are in direct opposition to the very concept of arrogance.

>>43945883
The Bond exists and the meager Lunar part of the E3 Core mentions it. But this time it got broken with the disappearance of almost all Solars. That scarred Lunars in some ways, to quote:

> he Lunars changed. They’re still changing. A deep rage lives in their Essence, and a deep wound. Their sleep is tormented by visions of loss, of murder, of the past. The Lunars are compelled to shatter the chains binding them
to the past—to tear down the stolen remnants of the First Age, to raze the Sidereal and Terrestrial hegemony that dares to wear the ancient name of the Realm.

But also:
>Some Lunars resist the primal howl that shivers in their Essence. They harness their rage to fight for that which they cherish, or bend their powerful instincts to their own benefit as they walk another road.

And:
>Neither Lunar camp seeks to turn back the clock, nor wishes to return to defining themselves as the shadows cast by the Chosen of the sun.

So yeah. Many people would be less butthurt if they READ THE GODDAMN BOOK and didn't always assume the worst.

>>43946232
Always assume the worst

Because the writers are dipshits

>>43946293
Abyssal.

>>43946293
Siddies.

>>43946307
Makes sense. I was also thinking it could be applied to a pub in Yu Shan.

>>43946316
What's a "Siddie"?

>>43946252
>Always assume the worst

>Because the writers are dipshits

Actually don't because even if the writers are dipshit an erroneous assumption is only possible the moment you start making assumptions at all.

Read the fucking book if you're gonna discuss or theorize on the future of the setting. This isn't a matter of liking them or not.

>>43946458
Ok holden

>>43946332
I could tell you, but your Wits+Integrity isn't high enough to remember.

http://nobilis.me/quotes:lunars-in-creation
http://nobilis.me/quotes:fixing-the-lunars
So did this thought process just get abandoned, or what? Because it looks like 3E Lunars have still been 300+ schlubs jumping around at the edges of Creation and failing to substantially affect anything of importance.

>>43942994
I'd like to think that Nanoha Mage's don't have that much power, they just use it stupid as fuckly well thanks to Devices and shit.

>>43947559
Define edges of creation here. Ma Ha Suchi sits on the main trade route connecting the Dreaming Sea region to the rest of the world and the Caul is an important trading hub.

The 'edges of the world' is the Wyld, where the Lunars sat in the last editions defending the world from the Fae.

>>43947610
>Goatwolf faggot
>relevance

pick one

>>43946458
Sure, yeah, let's read the fucking book.
>The Lunars' ragey rage is raging at the Realm, meanwhile the Soalrs are returning which they are pretty rageful about, the future will tell if it's the furry hatefuck rage or it's the raaaar smash the Solars rage, here's some examples of Lunars and what they are doing in the world, which are all generic bandit/barbarian shit

Nnnnnnope, I'm pretty sure third time will not be the charm here.

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>>43947701
Damn, son

>>43947701
>rage

You'd make a good Lunar, Anon.

>>43947701
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHP4VbhtGJ4

>>43947693
Ah, the 'make arguments based on previous editions' gambit. Ma Ha Suchi is more relevant than queen Merela, the Roseblack, Tepet Arada or the First and Forsaken Lion. 90% of characters you consider 'important' are less important than this guy right now.

>>43947701
TOLD STATUS:
[ ] NOT TOLD
[x] TOLD
[x] FUCKING TOLD
[x] CASH4TOLD.COM
[x] KNIGHTS OF THE TOLD REPUBLIC
[x] TOLDERONE
[x] STONE TOLD STEVE AUSTIN
[x] BEN TOLDS
[x] 007: TOLDENEYE
[x] TEXAS TOLD’EM
[x] AUSTIN POWERS IN TOLDMEMBER
[x] PTERODACTOLD
[x]TOLDEN SHEARER
[x]TOLDASAURUS REX
[x]BATTLETOLDS
[x] LEO TOLDSTOY
[x] THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE TOLD

>>43947701

I wonder* why whenever a Solar has the goal of tearing down or usurping the Realm, it's viewed in a positive light bordering on accusations of Solarwank, but whenever a Lunar has the exact same goal, the fanbase immediately leaps to "BAWWWBARIANS BAWWWW"

*: I don't wonder. I know why. It's because Lunar fans are sick in the head and can't get off without being abused, even if they have to make that abuse up.

>>43947882
You seemed to have missed the correct box there, nobody was told by a bunch of shitty memes. I could replace everything you said with fart noises and while seeing if anyone noticed the difference would be an interesting experiment, it wouldn't make you 'told'.

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>>43947851
>Npcs relevant
>list the most fagtastic Npcs
>Implying the pre-written Npcs have any use besides removing like kebab

>>43947915
Because the blurb for Solars is "Hey you play this mythic hero in a sorrowful world governed by an oppressive Realm, what will you do? Each Solar could carve a place for himself, or battle demons or explore ancient ruins and rediscover mysticla secrets, you could even tear down the Realm if you wanted!"
As a Lunar you get "Your whole splat is noble barbarian heroes raging at the Realm and there's a whole in-setting society kidnapping you and indoctrinating you into doing what would come instinctive anyway, here's some Lunar examples, as you can see not a single one breaks the mold even a little. Now start with the smashing!"

>>43947974
>Each Solar could carve a place for himself, or battle demons or explore ancient ruins and rediscover mysticla secrets, you could even tear down the Realm if you wanted!"

And every single Solar who does literally anything but the last one (or something equivalent, like founding his own empire at the cost of the Realm) is viewed as a masturbating waste of energy. So, not really helping the case.

> and there's a whole in-setting society kidnapping you and indoctrinating you into doing what would come instinctive anyway

Are we just straight making shit up about the Silver Pact now?

>>43947968
>I want characters to be relevant to the setting but I don't give a shit about characters that aren't mine so only my characters being relevant to the setting is relevant to this conversation.

Have I summed up your position well enough or is it even more retarded than that?

>>43947968
You don't seem to actually have a real argument. The chain of discussion here is that somebody thought Lunars were still sitting on the edges of the world, I pointed out that they weren't. Then someone suggested one of my examples was irrelevant, I pointed out that he's more relevant than most other NPCs. Now you're suggesting all NPCs are irrelevant.

So what are you trying to say exactly, epic greentexts aside. If NPCs don't matter then Lunars are equal in not mattering. I can't tell if you're a bitter Lunar fan or just one of those shitbags who hangs around here bitching about the devs without actually knowing a thing.

Fucking shitposter shitting up any fucking form of discussion.

Fuck off, fuckers!

>>43948010
>And every single Solar who does literally anything but the last one (or something equivalent, like founding his own empire at the cost of the Realm) is viewed as a masturbating waste of energy. So, not really helping the case.
Nope, that's a meme spred by the fanbase. I'm not talking about that shit, I'm talking about what the book actually spells out.
>Are we just straight making shit up about the Silver Pact now?
They might tone it down for Ex3, but previously the SP was quite aggressive in their PR campaigns. I'm pretty sure there's a mention in second edition of some elders viewing non-adherents as future Chimera and just killing them so they could do a better job on their next incarnation.

>>43948032
The Lunars have spent fifteen hundred years constantly trying to undermine the Realm and the Realm is still going. It makes them look weak and stupid. Ruling independent outskirts is fine, if that's all your looking to do, but there's plenty of stuff suggesting the Lunars were, in fact, constantly trying to undermine the Realm.

>>43947974
>As a Lunar you get "Your whole splat is noble barbarian heroes raging at the Realm and there's a whole in-setting society kidnapping you and indoctrinating you into doing what would come instinctive anyway, here's some Lunar examples, as you can see not a single one breaks the mold even a little. Now start with the smashing!"
But even in 2E you have guys like Rakshi who's mostly just interested in her (amost certainly futile but certainly ambitious in a way that's worthy of an Exalt) sorcerous studies, or Strength of Many who's focused of freeing slaves rather than picking fights with the Realm. 3E Core's short Lunar section explicitly states that there are Lunars who have their own agendas that have nothing to do with the Silver Pact. The section on Lunar dominions further explains that the Silver Pact doesn't demand young Lunars to join it, but offers much to those who choose to do so.

>>43948082
>Nope, that's a meme spred by the fanbase.
THE FANBASE IS WHO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

The fanbase dismisses every non-conquering Solar as a masturbatory wankfag, then also turns around and bawws about every conquering Lunar "because they're barbarians bawww"

>>43948085
>The Lunars have spent fifteen hundred years constantly trying to undermine the Realm and the Realm is still going.

Literally EVERYBODY has spent the last fifteen hundred years constantly trying to undermine the Realm. Either everybody in the entire setting is weak and stupid, or "we couldn't conquer the strongest empire Creation has seen in millenia" is not actually a sign of weakness, for the same reason "I can't kill an Essence 5 Dawn in single combat" is not a sign of weakness either.

>>43948085
>The Lunars have spent fifteen hundred years constantly trying to undermine the Realm and the Realm is still going. It makes them look weak and stupid.
Lunars - that is, some LUnars: others have other agendas - have spent fifteen hundred years fighting the Realm, and that's why there are large chunks of Creation the Realm has no power over. "Their enemies still exist so they suck" is not a very convincing argument.

>>43948109
>The section on Lunar dominions further explains that the Silver Pact doesn't demand young Lunars to join it, but offers much to those who choose to do so.
And even if they don't join they can still trade favors, information etc. But just by reading posts like >>43948082 or >>43947701 you can see that most people whining about Lunars didn't even read their part in the book. And even if they did, they wilfully assumped it's going to be SHIT either way and reduced it to things they don't like so they can be angry and shitposting.

>>43948109
>guys like Rakshi who's mostly just interested in her (amost certainly futile but certainly ambitious in a way that's worthy of an Exalt) sorcerous studies
Yeah, with a dash of let's raid absolutely everything nearby for young boys/girls to rape and then feed to my army of apemen

Yes, the text is very kind to inform me that you don't need to play a Lunar who is into outlaw/barbarian shit, then proceeds to give me absolutely no positive reinforcement of this idea. Strength of Many is still a dude traveling alone, bashing merchants' skulls. He might not want to kill all the Realm but he doesn't get far from the standard Lunar mold either.

>>43948128
>Literally EVERYBODY has spent the last fifteen hundred years constantly trying to undermine the Realm.
Also if the Realm *would* have fallen, the the majority of Siderals would look weak and foolish. Two powerful groups of Exalted are in opposition here: why is only one of these groups maligned for not winning already?

>>43948085
Ah, a new argument. So your stated premise is that the win condition is total destruction of the Realm and they are weak and stupid for failing to achieve it.

That's interesting, so on one side we have a group of Celestial exalts attacking the Realm. One the Realm side we have tens of thousands of Dragonblooded and a group of Celestial exalts who have complete access to Heaven and the Loom of Fate. It's incredible that the Realm, with these resources, does not cover the world. Instead, one group of Lunars has fought the Realms armies to a stand still repeatedly in a place sacred to the Dragon-blooded and they're winning. One Lunar cuts off access to the richest parts of the world from the Realm.

Your premise is bad, the Lunars have achieved plenty. You're just arguing based on what the Realm is now and wondering why it hasn't been destroyed instead of wondering why the Realm looks like it does.

>>43947941
You seem mad.

ITT salty lunarfags that don't realize how irrelevant their splat is

>>43948240
You seem incredibly stupid.

>>43948236
More memes. I get more 'told' by the second. A victory of regurgitated nonsense over the English language.

>>43948240
Another salvo, good job.

>>43948128
>>43948163
>>43948214
Lunars are Celestial Exalted and supposed to be roughly on par with Solars. It is generally expected that within a century of game start your Solar Circle will conquer, overthrow, and/or destroy the Realm if that's what you aim to do.

If Lunars were fighting an uphill battle against a major enemy even their powers were insufficient to defeat, that means either:
a) Solars don't have much of a prayer of doing the above, given there's fewer of them and they've had less time to prepare, or
b) Solars are an order of magnitude or two better than Lunars at the stuff that matters, or
c) The only reason your Solar can actually hope to overthrow the Realm is that the Scarlet Empress is gone, lucky you that happened right now rather than at any other point in history, or the Lunars would be running the show. i.e., somebody else did the heaviest lifting. (Also this implies that in hundreds of years no Lunar had the idea of killing the SE, or at least none succeeded)

>>43948267
Anon, you do realize that some people think they have 'won' if you give them any kind of response? Just don't bother, it'll do no good.

>>43948267
You seem to lack the reading comprehension of a fourth grader. From the United States.

>>43948214
Basically this.

>>43948274
>Lunars are Celestial Exalted and supposed to be roughly on par with Solars.
Oh hey, you're right. They're Celestial Exalted against mere Terrestrials, it's not like they're opposed by another group of Celestials or anything!

>>43948274
>It is generally expected that within a century of game start your Solar Circle will conquer, overthrow, and/or destroy the Realm if that's what you aim to do.

It's also generally expected that PCs, of any Exalt type, are way and above any of the other Exalts of your category. PCs just DO MORE SHIT than NPCs ever do, because reasons.

It takes a lifetime of personal advancement and growth for an Exalt to hit Essence 5; PCs get there in like a decade if they take their time.

>>43947572
Most mages in the setting don't, but that's technically several planetary populations. Nanoha and her friends explicitly have ludicrous power levels.

>>43948274
>It is generally expected that within a century of game start your Lunar Circle will conquer, overthrow, and/or destroy the Realm if that's what you aim to do.

>>43946124

Its impossible to measure relative power levels in terms of percentages. What does that even mean? The power from a character's charms can't be summed up into a number and compared to another.

What is clear is that terrestrials should be MUCH weaker individually than celestials otherwise the setting doesn't make sense. As whole, they should be terrifying, however.

>>43948274
You kinda forgot the most probable reason behind this hermetical conundrum :
4) The members of your Solar Circle are the protagonists of your story so of course they're going to bend the story around themselves.

Incidentally, this reason applies to other Circles of other Exalts too. Why are the PCs the ones to accomplish what they do in a world where people infinitely better than them coulda done it ages ago? Because they're the protagonists.