How exactly does high ground give an advantage in melee combat?

>>43803280
The thread is still easily accessible in the archive you unimaginative fuck.

Actually, in my mind, the reason this gave Obi Wan the advantage was because he was in the opposite position against Maul all those years ago.

After escaping from that, he decided to research the best defenses when you have the high ground.

Anakin would have known this and the fact that he took the risk anyway shows a severe hubris that he believes he can, simply through his own strength in the force, overcome an opponent who has studied and learned exactly what to do in the situation.

>>43803280
Situational modifier.

>>43803280

In a one-on-one fight, it doesn't.

High ground advantage is for actual battles where one side has to slog up a hill to engage with the other side, who can stand and fight AND easily bring projectiles and polearms to bear over the heads of the front ranks, right on top of the now exhausted enemy.

File: fuck you.jpg (28KB, 409x305px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 409x305px

>>43803280
This. >>43803291
Now go back to /tv/ and kill yourself, in that order. We don't need your 400 pound corpse blocking traffic.

For people who can use the force, the high ground makes you unbeatable. Force users develop many different ways of getting many different types of high grounds. Yoda, for example, has the ability 『Size Matters Not』, which cancels out the effects of physical high grounds so that only metaphorical high grounds apply.

>>43803280
The person on the high ground is swinging down and hitting the lower persons head and chest... AKA the places where all the vital organs are.

The person on the lower ground is swinging up at the upper person's legs, where none of the vital organs are (especially with a weapon that instantly cauterizes major bleeding wounds).

>>43803322
this is still retarded.

>>43803322
This. But Obi-Wan has『From a Certain Point of View』, which means he always counts as having the high ground as long as it can be said that he does depending on how the scenario is seen. It's how he was able to defeat Darth Maul and Grievous, despite not having the high ground from their point of view.

>>43803325
Hence why op brought it back up and doesnt take it to /swg/.

>>43803298
Oh look, a real explanation.

Why didn't Vader just force push him off the platform instead of jumping into an enemy at a disadvantage in reach and leverage like a retard?

>>43803280
see >>43803291

>>43803344

Yeah, it's kind of dumb, and feels like one of those obvious fan-made retcon patches to a franchise's glaring plot holes that you see now and then.
But it makes a bit of sense.

It was a moral high ground mirrored in the fight. Anakin was too dumb to see Obi was outmaneuvering him and retaining control.

>>43803349
Why did Yoda and Obi split up at all? Why didn't they double team Sidious and then double team Vader?

>>43803349

Why did anyone do anything in the prequels? We'll never know, since none of them had any personality, drive, or character. Even Anakin, who the story is supposed to be about, is a cypher who's supposedly in love then angry.

>>43803364
Obi had the high ground earlier in the fight when they were climbing on a structure in the lava. Obi was like right above Anakin. Why didn't the fight end then?

>>43803298

Actually Obi-Wan essentially maxed Defense after Maul. That's why we was able to defend again Grievous and his blender of light sabres.

>>43803374
What are you talking about? Anakin's motivations are clear. He loves Padme and hates sand.

>>43803377

Because shitty writing.

But you knew that already.

>>43803280
Because it gives you better range. Their head and torso are in your range, and yours are out of theirs.
Furthermore downward attacks are more powerful than upward ones.

There are a multitude of small things, measured in inches and ounces, that make high ground better, if you don't understand why intuitively then the only real answer is "go fight someone who has high ground and find out"

>>43803280
None, really.

In old times, castle towers were built to restrict the attacker's right hand, but that's about it.

The way I always figured was that being on the high ground means you will probably hit them around the head/shoulders, whereas they will hit you on the legs/torso. Also, imagine you're swinging a bat. Would you rather swing down and bring all of your weight to bear (on their head/shoulders, again) or up and have to generate force purely through your arms/chest (hitting them in the legs/torso)?

>>43803401
>if you don't understand why intuitively

If every arms and armor thread ever has taught me one thing, it's that things that people think they 'understand intuitively" about combat are usually total horseshit.

>>43803377
He didn't want to kill the brother he loved? The whole duel was like the Ali- Foreman fight with Obi playing defense. Obi wan picked every single change in the fight and Anakin simply responded by coming at him.


He cut as many corners with the love thing as Anakin.

>>43803436
But it's clear from the movie that they really didn't like each other. They're always fighting, or bickering, or shouting at each other, or getting in each other's faces. There aren't any moments in the movie where they act like bros.

>>43803468
Father son relationship? A dad may not get along with is kid when the kid wants to do his own thing and go his own way.

>>43803468
Like bros or actual brothers?
Obi-wan is shouting at Anakin in anger and sorrow about loving him as he watches him burn.

Emotional for a stoic space monk he is.

>>43803468
First of all, that's a straight up lie. They're constantly joking around with one another before Mustafar.

Secondly, they aren't bros, they're brothers. Even though one might disagree with their brother from time to time, they're still brothers, and at the end of the day, still love each other.

File: ItIsOver.png (72KB, 653x209px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 653x209px

>>43803280
FFG know what's up.

>>43803374

Only Episode I.

>>43803468

See, the suddently make lots more sense when seen with the context of The Clone Wars series, but they never tell you. I mean, who is this blue chick that Grevious stabs, and why should we care about- oh.

>>43803468
The whole ignoring a secret love affair between a supposedly politically unbiased celibate monk and agent of the imperial army and a high ranking royal family member and politician didn't tip you off?

Spinning is the good trick.

>>43803540
I'm not really sure what this statement has to do with what I said.

Oh yeah, that reminds me, why didn't they go back for Anakin's mom after the end of the events in episode 1? They had plenty of time before she gets killed in episode 2.

>>43803433
I'm saying it's something you understand better with your body than with written explanations. And I'm not saying that only martial arts masters will understand it, it's something you can understand just by swinging around some nerf bats with your friends honestly.

If someone asked what the best way to throw a football was then there are surely ways to write it, but ultimately it comes down to intuitively understanding how to hold it in your hand and how to swing your arm. I said that high ground advantage is mostly to do with differing ranges, and being able to swing more freely, but ultimately the answer to the question is something you'll feel in your body. It's hard to land a good hit on someone above you. why? Because they're above you.

I'm not saying I intuitively understand combat, I'm saying I've done enough combat, either blessedly uncommon real fights I've been in, or the sparring I've done, or even just the dicking around with foam swords that I know having high ground gives an advantage. But if you don't have that experience then you'd have to understand it intuitively. You have a human body don't you? Then maybe you can extrapolate how it would feel to use that body in a fight. Some people can some people can't. Which is why I said that if you can't, then the only answer is to go actually do it.

OP here, and oh man, I didn't expect some thread I didn't even know about to fuck up mine like this.

To clarify, my question was why does higher ground consistently give bonuses in melee in various RPG systems. The pic in the OP was just the first related image I thought of.

>>43803552
Where did this spinning business come from?

>>43803527
Elaborate to those who didn't watch the clone wars

>>43803584
the sheev spin against mace dindu

>>43803588
Just watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVk9lPotcW4

File: 1446829893978.png (237KB, 1554x904px) Image search: [Google]

237KB, 1554x904px

>>43803584
Sick memes and a twisted amount of sense.

>>43803596
Huh, I just looked up that scene. If they all had blasters instead of lifesavers, they could have just all shot him at the same time. Why do Jedi use light sabors again?

>>43803619
dogmatic sense of tradition

>>43803280
>>43803508
>Only +20
Anima did it better, it gives you +20

File: 1379960771064.jpg (176KB, 802x1042px) Image search: [Google]

176KB, 802x1042px

>>43803280
In war, having the high ground in a battle is advantageous because your projectile weapons will have a longer range (because they can arc further) and your troops will be less fatigued when they meet the enemy forces (because it takes less effort to march downhill than it does uphill). Lucas, while vaguely familiar the idea, did not actually know the context for why having the high ground is better, and just assumed that it applied to single combat (which it doesn't).

Despite it being completely nonsensical, this exchange still made it into the final cut of the movie, due to the fact that the script only ever went through one-and-a-half drafts, because no one was willing to question Lucas on what he wrote.

>>43803791
You bet your ass it still applies in single combat. Especially if you're significantly higher than your opponent, as the scene would have been if Anakin had simply started fighting Obi-Wan up slope. There's a number of reasons for that. First, you limit your opponents reach while yours increases. This can't be underestimated. Second, moving up slope is more difficult and time consuming than it would be on a flat plane. Therefor, the lower party's movement is significantly more limited. Third, the high ground will have an energy advantage. Yes, that does matter even in one on one engagements. He's got to be lifting his weapon up to hit you, while you can leave yours farther down, meaning he tires out before you. Fourth, you cut down on your lines. His are slightly cut down as well, but not as much as yours.

>>43803280
For swinging weapons you have more more height to swing. More height = more force behind the weapon. Don't think it's as big an issue for light sabers however.

File: Image1.gif (10KB, 448x422px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 448x422px

>>43803837
>First, you limit your opponents reach while yours increases.

Your range forward is the greatest at shoulder height. On a slope, that may be above your enemy's head. His shoulder height probably won't be below your feet.

>>43804028
I agree the reach argument is dubious, but this diagram gives some idea what might be behind it. The swordsman on high has easier access to his opponent 's head, who converselly has access to the far less vulnerable shins. Even if wearing a helmet, helmets must necessarily include weak spots.

Lack of attack options. The enemy must thrust upwards with shoulders, the defender also has additional moment on the swing for parrying.

>>43804028
If you consider yourselves just standing still swinging a sword, sure. If you consider that you've got an easier time going downhill in the lunge, you've got substantially longer reach.

>>43803280
Clearly this was just George Lucas` saterday night pathfiner game

pathfinder rules say that if u have the high ground u get +1 attack. Metagaming is 2nd nature to him now after years of playing pathfinder so we just unconciously worked it into the movie

>>43804246
Yes but at the same time, the bottom swordman should be able to hit legs, which means the top swordman falling, and he's not able to parry with effectiveness

It normally doesn't where weapons are concerned, in particular. However, earlier in the fight between Obi Won and Anakin, we saw Anakin do the same flipping jump over Obi Won and catch him a bit by surprise. I think Obi Won was saying, "Don't try that shit again. It isn't going to work this time."

>>43804540
THIS.

Incidentally, Mythbusters actually tried the high-ground vs low-ground saber fight, and out of 50 fights on each side between them (both being the same level of not so great with minimal training) there was negligible difference due to the lower attacker's ability to hit legs and feet while higher could get lunge reach.

And a leg hit with a sword (especially one which theoretically severs your foot or leg with one hit) impairs mobility, and fighting with impaired mobility means you will lose in the long run..

>>43803280
So have you ever tried fighting an opponent where you have to swing up to hit important spots? No? Its leverage. All blade locks and everything are given advantage to high ground cause you can put your whole weight down on it. Low ground has to physically force their weight upward which is fucking hard and in any kind of melee combat fight that gets tiring fast as fuck. Thus advantage is gained.

>>43803305
yes it does idiot

all you need to do is fucking push him

>>43803344
There already is a real explanation that was discussed within the recent past and continues to be readily accessible. Why this current thread has yet to be pruned baffles me.

>>43803298
Basically this. Obi-Wan's natural talent is all about perspective. So long as he can perceive himself in the better position, he is.

>>43803403
So that's why they spiral that way.

>>43804577
And if I cut the fuck out of your ankles while avoiding your lunges, you're gong to be in a pretty fucked up situation in short order.

Not fatal=/=useless.

>>43803604
Nigga that's 2hrs. Just give me the tl;dr

I thought it was pretty obvious in that entire lightsaber fight, that Obi Wan was doing excellently.

He was dictating the environment the entire time, and was always maneuvering himself into advantageous positions.

Also, I think this isn't canon anymore, but Obi Wan's lightsaber fighting style, emphasizes defense and wearing down your opponent, while looking for openings.

FIVE TIMES. Five fucking times within a week, and still people respond to it. How many times are you going to post this thread?

>>43804840
You're joking right? The reposters are the same idios who gave us shitspam so much the mods went batshit insane. They also repost the fetish threadsevery day.

>>43804642
Sooooo in armoured scenarios the higher person can do bigger swinga and be more likely to crush through armour, but unarmoured legs are one giant weak spot.

>>43803280
Iirc, Obi controlled the flow of the fight, now had an actually solid foothold and the lava was rising.

If he wanted to keep fighting, all Vader could do was either land safely and get stalled until lava pushed his shit in, or try his power at getting up past Obi, despite Obi controlling the fight the entire time.

>>43803382
nope, Obi Wan had defense maxed against Maul, which is why even as two he and Qui GOn didn't get much more offense in than a single person. He switched to a more balanced style because of it.

>>43803280

basically you can strike more vital areas of your opponent while exposing less of your own vital areas.
Also leverage is great, they have to bring their sword much higher to protect their head giving you more options to thrust at them.

>>43803584
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBlhgAkJBos

I want /tv/ to leave.

>>43804901
Yes. There are only two shitposters on all of /tg/ and they control all of the spam threads and shit posts on every thread.

The illuminati of /tg/.

File: P2.png (130KB, 1498x615px) Image search: [Google]

130KB, 1498x615px

>>43803606

Don't forget spinning, that's a good trick.

>>43805972
To out myself as having bad taste in friends, I have seen where my buddy has shown me people organizing shitposting here on SA.

You can tell everyone they are jumping at shadows but, in the end, some are at least trying to ruin things as a coordinated group.

>>43803604
>That almost Samurai Jack look
>The ARC squad
>Jetbike jousting
>Huge pitched battles
>Gratuitous droid gore
>Grievous wrecking everyone's shit

This was a damn good show.

File: 1448079936566.webm (528KB, 1268x534px) Image search: [Google]

528KB, 1268x534px

SO IT'S TREASON, THEN

>>43804612

That only works if you're part of a shield wall. In a duel you don't "push" each other around outside of Hollywood.

>>43806550
Well, you do, if you are an untrained oaf in the inner circle.

>>43806550
normally you don't because it doesn't accomplish anything. if you happen to be on uneven ground anything between kicking sand into their eyes and shoving with your sword hand will make your opponent lose their footing and possibly fall into lava.

>>43804703
Bitch, watch it. It's great.

>>43803305
Alright you v me 1 on 1 with baseball bats
You start in the bottom of a ditch I'm on top
You stay in the ditch

So is this the new baneposting ?

>>43807427
for you

>>43803280
High ground=Can hit you in head, heart, lungs, and other vitals. Can only be hit in legs, which sucks but isn't instant death

Low ground=Being attack from above. Harder to block overhead swings. If opponent hits he's probably hitting something vital. Best chance is to it the fucker's legs off and kill him while he's down.

>>43807531
but isn't it easier to swing at someones feet just above you than to get down and safely swing at someones head/torso? Seeing as the sword is held in the upper half of the body.

>>43807561
Considering how the higher person has the leverage to prevent it? Not really. You're limited on the lines you can attack from by the ground, meaning his defense is focused. Yours, on the other hand, needs to cover a much greater area.

>>43807561

That was Mythbuster's experience. At first the guy below was able to strike well under the upper guy's defenses, which meant for a bit it looked like lower ground actually had the advantage, since it was hard to parry a strike coming in at, say, your ankles.
However, once the surprise of this situation wore off the upper guy could compensate and things evened out again.

File: tis treason then.gif (617KB, 664x550px) Image search: [Google]

617KB, 664x550px

>>43806248

>high ground
Congratulations you can hit the head which is the easiest body part to move out of the way and if the enemy ducks he will be out of range for sure. You also probably don't have angle for a neck cut and will have to meet the armor HEAD ON. Torso is also well armored so have fun with that. You might have a bit more help with gravity helping your sword or whatever down there, but let's be honest it probably only matters for really heavy weapons. Also depending on the slope you probably won't be able to make use out of your stronger muscles that are in your legs since anything with uppercut-y motion will miss and you are going to be aiming down-forward. Also running up the hill is harder.
>low ground
Clear cuts and stabs at the legs and you can use your legs to their fullest, legs are also pretty poorly armored in general and what the fuck is a cripple gonna do to you. You can duck or descend down the hill quite easily making it much easier to dodge. It's also quite awkward to parry blows from below, especially strong ones depending on the weapon.