>Rules databases https://mega.co.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C 1gV

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>>43799951

First for guard didn't get anything imba in Mont'ka

>>43799951
Fucking sort out the pasta you and the rest of you tremendous faglords are using, it's a fucking mess. I'd have used my own if you had waited for the last thread to die before thinking about making another.

Ahem.
>>43792864
So. Proof?

2nd for I forgot to put a subject.

sub-second for I couldn't delete and re-go

sub-sub second for I deleted the new thread post in old thread thinking I had deleted this

>>43799986
>implying Forge World stuff isn't GOAT

>>43799997
But it was dead, it was auto-saging on page 10. That shit is dead.

Anyway, post a pastebin of the "proper" pasta then.

>>43800044
http://pastebin.com/psN1Vv51

So what's the reasoning behind being able to give orders to artillery carriage units? As i recall the orders are specific to codex imperial guard.

Is it because the carriage operators are imperial guardsmen as in the codex, and the order effect is conferred to the unit cannon as well?

>>43800064
pffft, basically the same!

buzzword attack! AUTIST!

Nah, OK, will use it then if it's better.

>>43800124
Artillery carriages are Infantry type (artillery), similar to those heavy weapon hover platforms Eldar have.

>>43799986
Was it too much to ask for a formation to give tank squadrons orders like 'Bring It Down!' or 'Fire on my Target!'?

>>43799997
>So. Proof?
I think it's just rampant and desperate speculation on the part of butthurt xenos players who don't see why their OP shit should have a counter. Also from butthurt players of all stripes who were powercreeped into the ground even without having to face down an effective anti-everything-except-daemons weapon that's getting spammed on units capable of ignoring its only real drawback. Either way, no real reason to expect a nerf. Hell, 8e grav will probably pick up Destroyer on sixes and never wound on less than 4+ or something, the way rules have been going.

>>43800177
Why do non-Tau armies get good stuff? Fuck you. We don't have any good melee troops as Tau, you guys got loads. Sort that out, then you can get your stuff. Fucking Imperiumfags and all their Forge World shit, entitled as fuck.

>>43799986
wait for your update then but in the mean time gotta paint up those 100 or so guardsmen you need for the formations

Was thinking of building my Betrayal at Calth Cataphractii Terminators with Lightning Claws as counts-as "Void Claws" and run them with my GK army. What do you think guys? Would having an auto turn-one deep strike unit be good since it lets you reroll reserve rolls as long as they're alive and on the table? Could the rerolling start on turn one for my GKS if I roll and place the Void Claws first, or do you have to roll for reserves first and THEN place the models?

>>43800317

Haha, is a Tau player seriously complaining? The Tau update brought Tau up to top army right below Eldar, just like they were in 6E. We've had to deal with you faggots for over 2 years.

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>>43800317
>Farsight
>Naked Crisis w/ VRT plus drones
>Kroot
>Riptides
>Ghostkeel
>Vespid

Glorious combat awaits you if you see through the Ethereals' lies.

>>43800317

You realize Tau are the second most numerous FW shit after Imperium/HH right? All those Riptide variants. And the old units like Tetras are still good.

>>43800402

Stormsurge stomp actually threatens most things that aren't Knights/Wraithknights/D-thirsters in melee.

>>43800394
>Eldar
>top army
>Not Flesh Tearers Strike Force SkitMech

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>>43800415

chaos gets more stuff since all that HH shit they can take too along with their unique chaos stuff (but sorry the HH stuff doesn't loook like the way chaos stuff should look)

>>43800454

I always see CSMfags whining about how things like the Leviathan Dreadnought can't be used by Chaos outside of 30k.

>>43800431
Don't forget about Fusion Blades. WS4 (5 with the right Warlord Trait) S8 AP1 @I3 A4 is nothing to sneeze at.

Incompetent Farseer is dead. The moral to that story is the following:
1: Don't catch Tartkus at a bad time, and Eldar bones don't mix well with power fisting.

So does the Drone formation's +1 to BS apply to drone controllers too?
Can I get BS6 sniper drones?

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speculations on what these Eldar Corsair Jetbikes mini-vibro cannons are going to be like?

Will they compare to the Scatter Spam Death?

>>43800574
36" S6 AP5 Heavy 1, Pinning, Vibro

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>mfw i'll be able to get a game in during the break

>>43800317
>Wow, why dont my tau shit stomp in every aspect.
>We need better melee units.
>I cant believe we got stuck with extra shooting attacks instead.
>Why doesn't any formation make us better melee.
>Just because I tabled you, doesn't mean my army is meta. Look how cheesy your termies were with those lightning claws
>Cant believe I had to use my one ghost keel to deal with them.
>Tau are middle tier at best.

>>43800454
>after Imperium/HH
>HH
>since all that HH shit
>HH

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>>43800356
Posting the Void Claws rules so you know what I'm talking about...

>>43800333
I'm starting to consider buying those cheap ass push-fit Guardsmen just to fill those platoons.

Tau hate is created by shity rules and reinforced by shitty players.

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>>43799986
is the pdf out yet?

>>43800643
>Just because I tabled you, doesn't mean my army is meta. Look how cheesy your termies were with those lightning claws
>mfw I play space sharks and my special rule is I get one squad of LC terminators as troops

Feels good man.

>>43800598
I bet they start at a lower Strength, not 6

>>43800701
>reinforced by Taufags

Don't try to sugar coat it or blame the victim.

>>43800751
I'm the victim, not tau players, tau players are the criminal cunts who are shitting up the tabletop with their ugly robots

>>43800729

Why would you think that? It's Eldar. Remember all those other "bets" we made?

>i bet the scatter lasers are limited in some way on jetbikes
>i bet the WK points go up by a lot
>i bet everyone will get W2 sergeants

>>43800677
You roll for reserves first, so it wouldn't work on turn 1. But it's still good

>>43800760

"Tau hate is reinforced by shitty players" could be interpreted as you saying "get good".

>>43800725
Man, Space Sharks are pretty hardcore when run with the Battle Company. They work wonderfully if you just treat them like this: "I get to spend 1 point per model to gain 1 additional attack", on all of your marines.

Thusly, you take the 10 free drop pods, you get to have 10 objective secured "Assault" Squads flying around the table. Run them kinda like I run my Raptors(I put my models wherever I damn well please when the game starts, and by that I mean I want all 6 of the objectives on turn 1).

>>43800768
i kinda like that exarch got that boost, they're more orky that way

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>>43800760
>shitting up the tabletop with their ugly robots

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Continuing the edition poll from the last thread:

http://strawpoll.me/6085790

Pic semi-related Bolt Thrower's Realm of Chaos album cover is the same as the 1st ed Rogue Trader's album cover. Favorite edition of Warhammer 40k for me, favorite Bolt Thrower album, too.

>>43800563
DRONES CAN'T CONTROL DRONES.
But yes.

>>43800834
yeah but ad-mech has trash rules so nobody by me plays them

>>43800443
>Meme Tearers
>Having to ally
>""""""""""""""""""top""""""""""""""""""""

Good one m80cakes. You almost had me.

>>43800818
>may only ally with Armies of Imperium
>all allies count as Desperate Alliance

This kills the shark.

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>>43800834

>>43800855
>Monofaction armies
m89 it isn't 5th anymore

>>43799997
>Proof?
Prove you're carnac first

>>43800184
>xenos players
Grav nukes MEQ and TEQ far more than xenos armies. Unless your opponent is only wrathknights/riptides, in which case why are you even playing them?

Would you guys get pissed at me for playing Codex Space Marines -> Chapter Tactics Iron Hands allied with Chaos Space Marines for a more realistic fluff version of Iron Warriors?

>>43800864
Eh. You have access to the marine codex. All the tools you need to deal with your opponents are right there in the book. It's not like you're Nids, you know?

>>43800883
>not getting good enough to win with monoarmies

I bet you're a scrub who doesn't mono-chaos.

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>>43800864
With kickass tactics like these? I'll be honest, if you're running them as the Drop-pod Super-assault army of doom, the only allies you actually need are ones that give you superb long-range support, like for example Mechanicus.

And with long-range allies supporting your "Totally not assault marines", you realistically won't need to worry about the whole Desperate Allies spiel.

>>43800902
No, cause this game is about fun. But then again I'm not a gronard.

>>43800895
It isn't Carnac, outside of the ad hom to me, he is implying he plays the game when Carnac doesn't. He just buys every book, both digital and physical editions.... of the same book. Oh and every collectors edition.

He makes me look frugal.

>>43800851
>>43800563
Drones in a unit with a drone controller uses the bearer's BS
so no I don't think so

>>43800924
>kickass tactics
>all your bonuses are in assault
>on a non-Wraith, non-TWC, non-bike, MEQ chassis
>when your guys run away from being shot at too much, they randomly re-consolidate back into the open towards the enemy to be shot at some more

Bruh. You play Carcharodons for street cred. Their rules are garbage. Pretty much every chapter is like that though except Raven Guard/Ultramarines/White Scars and a couple others.

>>43800902

At that point why not just use the fucking horus heresy rules. What exactly does vanilla marine allies even add to IW to make them more IW like? Certainly not entire squads of missilenators or basilisk artillery.

>>43800958
>forgetting based Red Scorpions

Disgusting. Also, Blood Angels stuff is good, it's just their codex is terribad. Furious Charge is great. Oh and Space Wolves global Counter-Attack is fucking insane.

>>43800790
Tau players are 8/10 times shitty waac players. 2/10 are those who chose tau and is embarrassed because of the other 8/10 and the pandering that happens. I shelved my tau army because of this.
I also started playing orks and oh man how much more I love playing them

>>43800958
>>43800974
Raptors are also Top-Tier. Lias Issodon is a godEmperor-tier buffmander, and their Rending bolters completely changes the game of what their marines can threaten.

> Glance rhinos to death from the FRONT
> Stunlock Dark Eldar vehicles with common tactical squads
> Stunlock leman russ's with Infiltrating tacticals spamming pens from the rear.
> Have your bolters contribute AP2 to the grav-weapons that you're inevitably infiltrating into grav-range anyway.

You obviously have never gotten shooting advice at the firing ranges by Lias Issodon. My operator marines are frowning upon your disdain for the veterans of the Badab War.

>>43800970
Actual tanks and it will not die on their tanks.

Like the tanks are crewed by engineers who can field repair their tanks, imo it makes more sense than dinobots

And HH rules are like 50 pounds per book, fuck that

>>43800974
>FC is great
>CA is insane

Newbie please. You could literally remove those rules and it wouldn't affect those factions. SW would still be amazing without CA and BA wouldn't get much worse.

>>43801062
Why pay 50 pounds for a HH book when you can just snag them off of the mega?..

https://mega.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ

>>43801062
>Actual tanks

SM tanks suck.

>IWND on tanks

Oh so you just want cheesy rules that have nothing to do with IW.

>And HH rules are like 50 pounds per book, fuck that

Download them you fucking retard. Anyone who won't let you use the rules without dragging around the giant book is someone who won't let you proxy that shit anyways.

>>43801028
>that one anon that constantly talks about his amazing raptors and lias issodon

you know what i think about all this talk about raptors? i'm actually curious about your latest battles and how it's holding up against tau or eldar

>>43801086
IWND on IW tanks makes more sense than dinobots though, he has a point

>>43801028

Issodon would've been garbage if they hadn't given him the infiltrate warlord in 6E. His old ability was something retarded. Basically just a decent shooting IC with a pre-game bomb.

>>43801127

IWND on tanks doesn't make sense for ANYONE other than techmarines and some other stuff. Especially how "machine empathy" means "regenerating officers".

Nothing in 40k makes sense. The whole thing's a mess.

>>43801167
Then why are you here?

Why do you hate the idea of an army of marines who are expert engineers proficient in siege warfare and specializing in mechanized infantry.

You know combat engineers do things other than run around with an smg and an rpg like in battlefield, right?

>>43801095
Ah, I haven't played any games against Tau yet with my raptors, but I did do a 3000 point game against an IG/MT army just a week ago.

I did the usual spiel of infiltrating the 30 guys, and was careful to put them into decent cover near the tanks I wanted out of the fight. He had 2 Manticores, 2 Wyverns, 2 Punishers, 2 Exterminators, 2 Standard LRs, and 2 Executioners. The rest of his army was just a shit-ton of deep striking MT squads with various loadouts, mostly meant to deal with variable threats.

I spread my fire out amongst his lighter tanks, and succeeded in stun-locking the Wyverns, a Punisher, one of the manticores, and a demolisher. Fully half of his MT squads failed to get on the table thanks to reserve shennanigans. On turn 2 I used hammernators in a land raider to remove his punishers, and removed. All of my squads used bolt pistols/grenades and charged his MT squads currently on the table, and a second hammernator squad dropped in next to the wyverns.

The rest of the game was just pure mop-up and dealing with the MT squads as they came on the board, and the guard player conceded on turn 4. It was a good game, and my first ever time going against IG.

>>43801073
>implying

It makes Space Wolves more of a threat to assault and it makes BA more deadly on the charge.

Remove them and you make a good dex slightly worse, and a shit tier dex a lot worse.

>>43801086
Tanks would be nice with iwnd if it wasnt for the fact that most vehicles get removed from the game in one round of shooting. The exceptions being baneblades an co that sometimes require two turns

>>43801167
>trying to make sense in 40k
>he doesn't whisper sweet nothings to his car in the morning or gently stroke the steering wheel while listening to barry white
>he probably doesn't believe that tech priest do love taps on rhinos for more then just a touch up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTD8g-x1tjA

I play Blood Angels because I like them. Space Wolves just don't appeal to me.

Competitive 40k is cancer. Just look at any tournament list these days.
Narrative campaigns are the best way to play 40k.

>>43801251
I agree, but you don't have to be a tourneyfag to see the disparity between codices. Bangles a shit.

But that doesn't mean you can't have fun with them.

>>43801243

My car even has a start engine button so I can "strike the rune of activation"! Bu to turbocharge that pathetic boxer engine would be tech-heresy...

What is it that people find so fun about playing Orks? I've no experience with them, I'm just curious since there's a number of people in these threads who have said they're much happier after switching to the greenskins.

>>43799951
So I've stuck in debate with some guys from my 40k group and I was hoping maybe I could get some help here.

The new cadian detachment for the "Emperor's Shield" infantry company it requires three "Emperor's Shield" infantry platoons. The shield platoons say they require 1-3 units of sentinels and the platoon requires AT LEAST five infantry squads. Now at first glace it looks like you need 50 infantrymen and a command squad per platoon but on the GW store there is a box that claims and I quote "This bundle gives you everything needed to field the Emperor’s Shield Infantry Platoon, a formation found in War Zone Damocles: Mont’ka." Problem is it doesn't have the 50 infantrymen that it would look like you need. One argument is that they are all technically squads and the models are infantry and the AT LEAST is implying that the platoon needs a minimum of 5 units. The other argument is the book says 5 infantry squads so you need the 50 guardsmen+commander to make the shield platoon.

Any idea is the more correct interpretation of the rules?

Link to the GW box and the detachment rules.
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Emperor%E2%80%99s-Shield-Infantry-Platoon

http://imgur.com/a/WGbXH

>>43801434

75% of ork posts on /tg/ that aren't "look at my ork thing" in WIP general is bitching about how orks suck but they still play them regardless.

>>43801434
/tg/ is filled with beta, uncompetitive kekolds who compensate their very real fear of losing with never playing too competitively or actually "trying to win" so that way, they never really lose and their deepest, most real fear can never happen.

So they all play the shittiest armies (no one could expect me to win, so there's no pressure) and lash out anyone who actually cares about winning or losing the game.

>>43800835
I don't feel like I can accurately vote, I started in 5th. But I do prefer the old fluff and really enjoy reading the older books.

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>>43801434
Mostly because the race is the only one that you're expected to not take seriously. You can get away with literally anything when playing Orks, and people will just assume its normal.

> Looted carnifex
"Oh cool!"
> 300 Boyz on the table
"Oh cool, lets see if I can actually kill them all before they get to me"

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>>43801490

>>43801434
Look, I used to play orks, but their current rules are head scratchingly bad, like, I haven't touched them since that book came out.

>>43800834
>>43800871
I'll never understand why people think this is ugly

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Yay warp spider wraithknights.... i wonder if with the update to doom of mymera shadow spectres will be usefull.

>>43801518
Hey now, if you play chaos and like khorne then khorne daemonkin is really good

>>43801475
Based on the fact that Infantry Squads is capitalized I'd say it means 50 infantrymen plus command squad and GW just fucked up with the bundle.

If it was intended that it meant at least 5 squads with the Infantry type then it would've been worded in a clearer way maybe. But this is GW.

>>43801514
>Looted carnifex
Holy god, I love it.

Don't play Orks, wanna do it now though.

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>>43801581
orks are fun

>>43801579
Thing is either way GW was stupid so I'm trying to guess at which way this can go is the intended one. It could be 50 infantrymen because GW wants more money but that kind of fails when a heavy weapons squad is more expensive than a infantry squad. I really can't figure it out.

>>43801545
they will almost certainly contribute to the Aspect Host Formation and get +1 BS.

If their range was increased and/or point cost lowered, they could be viable. They need to be the shooting jetbike alternative aspect

>>43801500
>WAACfag detected

It is entirely possible that people may actually enjoy having fun rather than playing purely for the sake of a win. This is a hobby people sink a ton of time and money into; if all you care about is winning, then why are you playing this? Go play something else like Warmahordes or something.

I play CSM and win 4/7 games, which is totally okay by me because I have a fluffy list that I have spent a ton of time building to be uniquely mine, and developed fluff for all aspects of the army. I have way more fun playing guys who have a similar mindset I do, and put a lot of time and effort into making their dudes Their Dudes than some asshole who shows up with an all-Battlesuit list that is only primed black, if even that. I recognize that CSM gets shafted a lot (though not as much as the internet likes to believe) but still play it because I like the faction itself, and given 40k's power fluctuations, playing a faction purely for its strength is a terrible investment in the long run.

Well I finally made a list for my 1st edition style Rogue Trader army. Since Rogue Traders are all chilling in a ship, all my army come from the air. The Marines Errant all come down in drop pods, while The Last Chancers all come in Valkyries and Vendettas. I am pretty sure y'all know how steel rehn works so I don't need to explain what the Marines do. But The Last Chancers take care of the weaknesses of a steel rehn drop pod strike. The Officer Of The Fleet makes sure the drop pods come in safe and right from the Rogue Trader ships, while the flyers take care of anything dangerous like Interceptors. Oh and all the Marines will have beakie helms (fluffy cuz roleplaying a shitty Rogue Trader here who doesn't have the best shit around all the time, Marines Errant only with us cuz ME are nice to Rogue Traders, Last Chancers with us cuz they are ex-cons and the Imperium doesn't really care where they go to die.)

1848 points

>>43801602
I think you're right, just to say. Just that I would rule it the other way.

If it was just 50 infantrymen then Fire and Advance is almost completely pointless unless you for some reason planted some HWTs inside of the blobs.

I'd like to say even GW wouldn't do something that retarded but I just can't. Not with a straight face.

>>43801500
Why don't you play comp starcraft or dota then? You know, games that actually are rewarding to play to win? Warhammer has gone past being a wargame long ago, its more of a model company printing rules and lore to sell said models. Although if you are playing to win and depend on using the cheese lists/armies without giving the person your fighting a fare chance, it does say alot about how shitty of a person you must be.

>>43800574
s5 ap4 vibro assault 1

>>43801699
The army list (which I forgot to post)

+++CAD: Marines Errant+++


---HQ---

Captain - 95 points
-Melta-bombs


---Troops---

(5) Tactical Squad - 70 points

(5) Tactical Squad - 70 points


---Fast Attack---

(5) Assault Squad - 80 points
-2 Flamers

(5) Assault Squad - 80 points
-2 Flamers


---Elites---

(5) Sternguard Veteran Squad - 160 points
-5 Combi-weapons (meltas or plasmas depends on situation)

(3) Honor Guard - 85 points


---Dedicated Transports---

(6) Drop Pods - 50 x 6 = 300 points
-Deathwind Launchers


+++CAD: The 13th Penal Legion/The Last Chancers+++


---HQ---

(6) Company Command Squad - 148 points
-Officer Of The Fleet
-1 Veteran has Medipack
-3 Veterans have Plasma Guns
-Veterans have Carapace Armor


---Troops---

(10) Veterans - 120 points
-3 Plasma Guns
-Grenadiers

(10) Veterans - 120 points
-3 Plasma Guns
-Grenadiers


---Fast Attack---

Valkyrie - 165 points
-Lascannon
-2 Multiple Rocket Pods
-Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Valkyrie - 165 points
-Lascannon
-2 Multiple Rocket Pods
-Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Vendetta - 190 points
-Heavy Bolter Sponsons

>>43801707
>>43801694

You justify your fear of losing with not trying to win. It's a pathetic, pathetic attribute.

You don't have to win all the time, but you should try to win all the time. It doesn't matter if it's poker, warhammer, fantasy football, darts, beer pong or blackjack. It doesn't matter if the odds are stacked against you or in your favor. Yes it's a game. Games are played to be won. You're afraid of losing for real. Suck a dick you beta retards

>>43801694
I actually play an army that pretty much revolves around XV8 series suits. The comparatively low model count means I was able to spend a lot of time customizing each and every model. I've written a whole lot of lore on why my snowflake OCDONUTSTEEL sept operates like that and am currently playing through the latter part of a narrative campaign with them with some friends. I'm losing, by the way.

WAACfags are cancer, but so are counter-WAACs that shit all over people that just happen to be playing a codex that is considered "meta".

>>43801798
you're right, but you're not me you autistic moron, you should clarify that

He's right though, it's way better to be WAAC than to be too-afraid-to-really-try tier, which most of this board is.

>>43801795
Noce b8 m8, bet it must feel great being a winner right now.
>Posting on a chinese board.
>Calling people beta.
>On a website full of betas.

I don't know what level of autism you have, but you can enjoy something without winning. I picked up warhammer to paint. I liked sci-fi dudes and how they look as an army.

>>43801835
You're a shitter too. Is it that hard to understand some fags don't care who wins? I could give less of a fuck whether I win a game if it was enjoyable, memorable and close. Those games are worth much more than the ones where I win via tabling, or outnumber my opponent in VPs 4 to 1.

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>>43801694
This.

>>43801795
>You don't have to win all the time, but you should try to win all the time.

I still very much try to win the games I'm playing, anon (and I do more than I don't, and I go up against some pretty competitive lists on occasion). I just enjoy playing with the guys I have, even if they're not the best. If I wanted a guaranteed win, I'd play armies that have that capability, but there's no fun in a game when your victory is guaranteed. I also play Chaos because I really like the faction and the models, not because of their power level (which fluctuates all the time, mind you - what is good today may not be good tomorrow).

You are the epitome of WAAC.

>>43801798
Ah, the guy I'm talking about brings Crises, Riptides, Broadsides (which actually aren't that bad) and has started bringing Ghostkeels, and none of his models are completely painted.

He asked if he could start playing with Forgeworld battlesuits in the list, I said only if I can bring my Fire Raptor. He decided not to buy them.

I'd have no problem playing your army, especially since it seems like you put a lot of time into them.

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>>43801795

>Needing assistance to win a game
>Requiring handicaps so you can table people quicker

>"You guys are beta fucks for not trying to win like me, DESU F/-\m, I could have been a 20 star general"

Go play magic, Dota, CSGO, Bolt action, literally any other game.

>>43801922
>>43801897
>>43801899

>you're the epitome of WAAC
wrong, you and I are pretty much saying the same thing

What's important is that you actually try, not that you win or lose. It's that you play to win. It's the playing. It's the fact that you're not actually afraid to try and win, and fail

>>43801941
>Bolt action
i dont want those fags shitting up my usual game thank you very much

>>43801949
I try and paint my models and forge narrative for my army. I don't care for winning, I care to make my army my own.

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I just want to do storm trooper things with militarum tempestus.

I love them to death but I really want a codex update.

Please GW update them.

>>43801959
I guess they would just be overflowing the already clogged game along with all the shit that you generate.

>>43801987
No, we need them for background fodder.

>>43801981
WAY TO HIDE YOUR FAILURES BEHIND A SHIELD YOU FUCKING COWARD

Except, you know, it doesn't really matter if you win or lose a game of toy soldiers, like, wow, it's just a hobby. Instead of having a level headed, mature, reasoned, response to playing a game, you should only try to win and stop hiding your losses behind the shield, "I don't care"

>>43802026
So should he throw a tantrum like you're doing on an Anonymous Beta Chinese image board about something that will not change no matter how many posts you make about it?

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>>43802011
Fodder they maybe.
88% casualties are fine.
I've got about a 60% win rate with them and I mainly play objective games.

Dawn of War or Maelstorm.

Dead to almost the last man yet they aren't super humans. They're just regulars guys doing regular things, fighting the good fight for the emperor and winning at the cost of their lives.

I fucking love them.

>>43802059
>missing the sarcasm

I truly weep at your lack of social skills

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>>43802059
Or did I just answer my own question.

I wonder how MCs would play out if they had a damage table similar to vehicles.

>Whenever a Monstrous Creature takes a wound, roll on the following chart to see the effects. Add +1 to the roll if the wound was caused by an AP2 weapon, or +2 to the roll if the wound was caused by an AP1 weapon.

>1-3: Concussion. A blow to the creature's head or sensory organs reduces its capacity to aim effectively. The model can only fire Snap Shots until the end of its next turn

>4: Staggered. The creature is left reeling by the attack, and struggles to remain standing. The model can only fire Snap Shots until the end of its next turn. If it is a Flying Monstrous Creature, it may not change flight modes until the end of its next turn. If it is not a Flying Monstrous Creature, it may not move until the end of its next turn.

>5: Disarmed. The blow rips a limb or weapon mount off of the creature. One of the creature's weapons (such as claws, guns etc), randomly chosen, is destroyed.

>6: Crippled. The creature's lower limbs, wings or other method of locomotion are rent asunder. The creature cannot move for the remainder of the game. If it is a Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature, it immediately takes a Grounded test which it automatically fails.

>7. Slain! The wound proves fatal, smashing through armour plates to hit a vital organ and bringing the beast down in a spray of ichor or lubricants. The wound is treated as having the Instant Death special rule.

>>43802096
Then they'd be shit, like vehicles

>>43802096
Why not just make them vehicles tbqh familia

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I find it hard to believe that I killed more Eldar than Orks.

>>43801514
>>43801593

Please stop your going to make me want to keep my Orkz.

>>43802162
Probably because you failed some Eldar missions. You did say they were giving you trouble earlier.

>not deploying Cyrus
You some kind of heterosexual?

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>>43801514
Better version.

>>43801987
What's there to update?

The only things I could see adding to them are shit like Vultures and Sentinels.

>>43802210
Chimeras. Vendettas. Better stormtroopers.

Fuck the Taurox.

Stupid or Fun? Both?

>The Valkyrie formation
2Valk
1Valk
1Valk

+

>The Ogryn formation
4 Ogryns each in the 2Valk Squad
4 Bullgryns in another
3Bullgryns + Commissar in the fourth

1105 Points

Low Altitude Drop for a Fearless screaming band of Idiot giants.

Probably a CAD of just vet spam

I own the models to do this

>>43802197
>Probably because you failed some Eldar missions. You did say they were giving you trouble earlier
I still can't see how it's that many. Maybe I should keep failing the next Eldar mission to rack up a kill count that equals every Eldar in the galaxy.
>not deploying Cyrus
You some kind of heterosexual?
Yes? And technically I am. Steve Blum's everyone so I am using at least one version of Blum.

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Would love some input on my 2000 point Raven Guard.

++Talon Strike Force++

=Core: Pinion Battle Demi-Company=

Chapter Master 215pts
>Swiftstrike and Murder
>Raven's Fury
>Digital Weapons
>Melta Bombs

10 Assault Marines 195pts
>2 Flamers
>Jump Packs
>Power Sword Sargeant

5 Devastators 155pts
>4 Lascannons
>Armorium Cherubs

3x3 Scout bikes 74pts each
>Cluster Mines

3x10 Tactical Marines 140pts each

=Auxiliary: Raptor Wing=

3 Land Speeders 210pts
>2 Multi-Meltas each

2x Stormtalon Gunship 125pts each
>TL Lascannon

=Auxiliary: Shadowstrike Kill Team=

2x5 Scouts 70pts
>Camo Cloaks
>Sniper Rifles

6 Vanguard Veterans 192pts
>Jump Packs
>Dual Lightning Claws

>>43802026

Am I the only person in the world who has a main fluffy armor painted nicely, and then a bare plastic/primer/3 color minimum tourney cheese army?

It's super easy to do with space marines. The cool units are always the shittiest ones, and you can get a super cheap gravstar with converted librarians or a cheap DV biker army counts as white scars. Paint up some miscellaneous bits or a FW graviton rifle pack as grav guns and that's pretty much the most expensive part of the army.

>>43802257
The Captain will join the Vanguard Vets. Formation special rules give that squad a guaranteed no scatter turn 1 deep strike which they can assault from. The squad would probably be better with TH+SS or something but lightning claws are so damn fluffy for raven guard I can't resist. Their job is to tear apart problem infantry units ASAP, then fall back to cover and pick off opportune targets.

The Assault marines are a defensive squad to protect other units from assaulty things.

The scout bikes and the tactical marines will Outflank. Formation special rules let them roll together in pairs and come from the same board edge. After that the Scouts' job is to roll around providing Ignore Cover to units that need it. The Tacticals are there to secure objectives. Cluster Mines are nice and even nicer en masse.

The Raptor wing is my anti-armor unit. The LS can declare a target within 18", which lets the stormravens reroll AP and try to turn glances into pens. Their job is to fuck up any tanks, walkers, or I guess superheavies.

I don't have a real strong answer to big MCs/superheavies but my local meta is generally very polite about those units and usually don't field them unless your enemy is doing the same or has an easy answer to them, or if it's a tournament.

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>>43802096
Make Walkers all Monstrous Creatures and give all remaining vehicles +1 HP, change damage chart to...
>7. The vehicle loses D3 HPs
>8. Explodes

Would that fix anything? (im just brainstorming)

>>43802199
Oi boss thats propa bootiful! Now share the link you git, need more of this.

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>>43802293
>mfw all I own are fun fluffy armies because I can't stand 9hour tournaments

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Quick, /tg/! Post your dumb ideas for Warhammer 40k 8th Edition!

>>43802319
>actually going to tournaments to try to get into the finals

I just go there and wreck 2-3 people's time on the first day. Losing to me in the beginning rounds sometimes ensures they will never top.

>>43802336

And then just leave the next day like an asshole.

TAKE THAT, XENOSFAGS

Plane ticket well spent.

>>43802307
>The Captain will join the Vanguard Vets. Formation special rules give that squad a guaranteed no scatter turn 1 deep strike which they can assault from.
As far as I know, joining the Captain with the Vets means they don't qualify for the guaranteed assault-enabled deep strike since the Captain doesn't have the formation rules.

I would love to be wrong on this so if you have proof then do tell, but general consensus seems to be a solid no for all things like this.

>>43802313
I have no idea where that picture came from, boss.

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>>43802336

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>>43802324
The setting advances
Everyones win conditions happen all at once
Universe is destroyed
EMPRAH awakes, creates men with hammers in a weird 8fold planet to fight off the forces of chaos
Eldar, Tau, Orks and Crons are all stripped of any character, given a minor portfolio in the imperium of man and relegated to jobbing and building up for Emprah warriors
No more Guard, who wants to play silly humans? psshh
nids get squatted because GW cant fit them into this new setting thats going to revitalise the company
salty enough yet?

It makes me sad that i get shit for playing Tau. I picked up $500 worth from a friend for 200 right before all the new shit dropped, and mostly because i thought they were cool. I mean, thankfully they're good and i have fun with them, but shit sorry i had lucky timing.

>>43802393
Tau are fine, as long as you dont run exclusive netlists and arent a faggot about winning. Its the guys who spend three grand on tau and run an unpainted netlist and act like l33T hAx0r that pisses off people

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>>43802349
Oh.

Quck question. For the formation Emperor's Fist formation, is the Tank Commander a separate squad or attached to one of the 3 tank squadrons?

>1 Tank Commander
>3 Leman Russ Squadrons
>1-3 Enginseers

>>43802413

It takes real effort to make a shit Tau list. Chances are people are going to take the normal units: any of the big suits, XV8, FW, Kroot. Those are all the basis of the good Tau lists.

Ain't nobody going to start a Tau army of breachers and vespids with zero suits. Don't kid yourself.

>>43802324
Never played in 4th so im not sure how it works exactly but bring back consolidation into combat.

Make Psychic tables more available to armies (Orks, Tyranids especially please)

>>43802226
>paying for chims when you have deep strike in-built
>wanting vendettas instead of vultures
>[more expensive] stormtroopers
Granted I'd like the old infiltrate OR deep strike choice back, but there's not a whole lot they can change about the stormtroops for the better without also adding an extra 20-30 points on top.

>>43802435
Sure, theyre damn good, but unless you really try, you won't bring multiple riptides, you wont bring nothing but a million crisis, etc. Its alright to have a good list, tau are good, sure. This is the difference between bringing nothing but D-templates, jetbike squads and multiple Wraithknights and bringing a varied army as eldar-while it wont be shit and it will probably win, it wont be table-flip-worthy

>>43802413
Yeaaaaaah. That shits stupid. We had a WAAC guy who tried to do Chaos tau. In a fluff escalation league. I know what you mean though. Thankfully the only douchenozzles we have in our area are spacewolf brothers. But goddamn...

Theyre the type to belitle your army and paintjob at the same time, even though theirs is shit.

Other than that everyone is fun to play with. Theres fluff players and at least like two more tournament players (which i like more because im competitive). Fuck my roommate though. Fucking runs smashbane in a 1k match? Dick.

>>43802466

Stock deep striking is always risky.

- Scatter or mishap re-roll/negation
- Guaranteed turn 1-2 arrival
- Reserve re-roll/reserve die bonus

If you don't have 2 out of 3 you shouldn't even bother using deep strike as your normal plan. Too often you'll mishap or never arrive until game's over.

>>43802466
>not wanting the crown jewel of metal box world over Imperial Trukk
>not wanting options to take Vendettas AND Vultures
By better I meant cheaper. AP3 lasguns aren't all that, and Tempestus don't even get FRFSRF.

>>43802435
Well, i dont have any FW and usually the onl crisis i run is buffy attached to PF. Optimized stealth cadre and riptide are my main niggas. Longstrike tank comes in handy too. But im considering a Crisis bomb since ive got 8 lying around and my roomie is going to run the fucking landraider formation (3 of them and termies).

>>43802481
>Chaos tau
wat
>theirs is shit
theirs is always shit, they never have the patience to do more than a quick spray and a thick coating. but nope, apparently its 'pro-painted'

>>43802513
>By better I meant cheaper.
They already trimmed the fat that they could. Only way you'll get cheaper is by going to the fucking terrible hellgun stats.

What I miss is the old special mission rules. That would be something I'd like to see come back in some kind of update.

>>43802529
>wat
Right? I brought it up first and k was like...man... come on... Tau dont even have the warp. Theyre literally incorruptible. Theyre also the defacto good guys of the universe. So he ended ip trading the tau collection for belachor, which ill be buying off my roomy. Win win for all.

>>43802529
Considering they lost contact to fringe areas before, (because GW likes giving you options) there is nothing preventing you from making wannabee chaos tau. Maybe they saw a fight between marines and chaos marines where chaos won, and they started yelling shit like "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD" while jamming spikes on their armours and strapping skulls to their suits and vehicles. I mean, I am pretty sure the Kroot would be delighted to help the blue skinned weirdos with their strange newfound fetish.

They are unlikely to have any actual connection to chaos, but they can still try.

>>43801981
Then why the fuck play at all, why not just paint the models

>>43802513
This is what we've come to.

>Ap3 is not good enough
>we need twice the shots and more strength
>why can't our lasguns just instantly remove MEQs that take a hit

Go fuck yourself. We have far too much ap1-3 shit in shit game as it is, and IG especially, with your parking lot faggotry. I hope you never get an update.

>>43802617
Ehhh. I think theyre a bit wiser than that. Lets consider the scene in Kauyon where whats his face (debuting the new coldstar suit) catches a hunter killer missle. When they pop it open to find a half dead fucker, they freak out and are disgusted by the attrocities of man.

Considering chaos make it pretty fucking obvious theyre evil as shit in one way or another, I find it hard to believe they'd convert.

>>43802660
Cool your jets Marinefag. Rank Fire adds one shot per lasgun and vanilla Guard can already do it with their in-codex Tempestus platoon. I never said anything about changing their strength.

>parking lot
>Tempestus
Now I know you're trolling. Even if Tempestus could do parking lot, it'd be shit anyway just like it is for vanilla Guard.

Stop running your Marines out in the open like a retard and maybe AP3 won't kill them so easily, at which point you'll realize how pathetic small amounts of S3 is. And for the record, I was thinking a price drop of one, maybe two points. If that.

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Bought Betrayal at Calth to get into the game and am having a blast
Quick dumb question is this the same as the rhino/razorback you get now? Found it for about 33 bucks and am trying to bolster my new army

>>43802651

They go hand in hand. Same reason he doesn't paint Gundam models or something. It doesn't have to be 100% gameplay or 100% hobby, it's not black and white. Almost 99% of us wouldn't play if there were no models, and 99% of us wouldn't paint the models if there were on game. Just look at other unpopular games with no or shitty models, or models with no game systems.

I'm not even a part of your conversation and your post made me go wtf.

Does taking a Thunderfire Cannon unlock the more than 1 relic vehicle rule?

It technically has a Techmarine...

>>43802747

That's just the very first version of the current Rhino. There's only two plastic Rhinos: the Rogue Trader one, and the current one, which that one is

>>43802764
It has a Techmarine Gunner. By absolute RAW, not a Techmarine. Don't be a dick. MotF was a costly HQ Techmarine, the least you can do is honor that sentiment.

>>43802764

No it doesn't. If you played before the current marine codex you'd know why. Technically we can't even unlock more relics right now since FW is still on the MotF wording.

>>43802074
I wish I had the money for them

>>43802778
thanks I got confused since everyone I know runs Razorback as a Rhino

If I'm making a list with the Stormlance Battle Demi-Company from the White Scars part of the Damocles book, is it best to put my tacticools in rhinos or razorbacks? What kind of loadouts for the squads are best right now, and if razorback is the best option what gun do I give it?

>>43802747
Looks to be the same, but I've not seen that packaging before.

In terms of Kroot spam to Riptide spam, how cheese is this list? I'm trying to make a more in your face army to play with my Tau, but still get to use suits.

Farsight Enclaves 2,000 pts

+++ Dawn Blade Detachment +++ [1,460 pts]

++ Retaliation Cadre ++ [1,058 pts]
- Commander (Fusion Blaster, Fusion Blades, Shield Generator) [211 pts]
-- Shield Drone (Warcraper Drone), Shield Drone
- 3 Crisis Suits (Twin-linked Missile Pod, Missile Pod, Bonding Knife Ritual) [174 pts]
- 3 Crisis Suits (Twin-linked Plasma Gun, Plasma Gun, Bonding Knife Ritual) [174 pts]
- 3 Crisis Suits (Twin-linked Fusion Blaster, Fusion Blaster, Bonding Knife Ritual) [174 pts]
- 1 Broadside (Twin-linked High-Yield Missile Pod, Bonding Knife Ritual) [66 pts]

++ Ranged Support Cadre ++ [414 pts]
- 3 Pathfinder Teams (6 Pathfinders, 6 Bonding Knife Ritual) [216 pts]
- 3 Broadside (Twin-linked High-Yield Missile Pod, Bonding Knife Ritual) [198 pts]

+++ Formation Detachment +++ [524 pts]

++ Infiltration Cadre ++ [524 pts]
- 3 Pathfinder Teams (4 Pathfinders, 4 Bonding Knife Ritual, 1 Recon Drone) [228 pts]
- 1 Piranha (Fusion Blaster) [50 pts]
- 2 Stealth Suits (1 Fusion Blaster w/ Target Lock, 1 Shas'vre w/ Homing Beacon) [246 pts]

>>43802617
>I am pretty sure the Kroot would be delighted to help the blue skinned weirdos with their strange newfound fetish.

Kroot Shapers will take every effort to avoid Chaos and Chaos tainted flesh. They would but 100% not okay with their Tau allies going Chaos.

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>>43802324
Release a rune priest for the Storm Warden's that wear's a deer skull just like a druid

>>43802818

Razorback and Rhino have the same body. So does the Predator. Razorback just has an extra, small gun turret on the big square plate at the back. Rhinos have just a flat door. Predators have a large gun turret and optional sponsons on the side.

If you buy a Razorback kit you get the extra small gun turret and some ropes and hooks and bulldozer blades for your Rhino, but it costs more and none of that extra shit is needed on regular old Rhinos.

I'm confused. I'm building a marine list, what if I want to add single vehicles or units not listed in formations. How does this work?

>>43802617
>pretty sure the Kroot would be delighted to help
No.

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>>43802882
thanks
I bought the Betrayal at Calth to start my first army and am trying to expand it on a bit of a budget and saw the rhino for a few bucks less than the Razorback

>>43802885

You need to build a regular army using the Combined Arms Detachment then add the vehicle in to Fast Attack or Heavy Support.

Have you never played the game before 2015 or something?

>>43802732
What the fuck are you talking about.

You do realise we pay exorbitant prices for that 3+ armour, right? And you want a cheap ass unit that just ignores that, with the justification that we can just "stand in cover"? If I wanted to do that, I would play IG, get the same shit for cheaper, since you apparently think everyone and their mother should be able to ignore marine armour.

Otherwise, sure, lower your Ap3 faggotry a point or two, and price power armour accordingly. 7ppm sounds fair when I should apparently expect to never have my armour.

>>43802930
>You do realise we pay exorbitant prices for that 3+ armour, right?
>he doesn't use scouts to save points now that they're literally the same as marines but with slightly worse armor

Get with the times, Battle-Sempai! It's time for you fossils to make way for the 10th Company!

>>43802873
But the tau wouldn't be warp tainted, and the enemies would still be primarily orks or the imperium.

So I still don't see why not.

>>43802885
Fill out the requirements for the Formation, then form a second Detachment (Combined Arms, Another formation, Unbound, etc.) and add what you want adhering to the new detachments requirements as well

>>43802930
everything should be S D AP 1

Then the game will finally be balanced

>>43802957

WHAT WOULD YOU KNOW OF BALANCE, FOUL ELDAR

>>43802962
hey, it takes a lot of balance to fly my jet-bike around, I grew up walking tight-ropes and balance beams and riding jet-bikes.

I know a lot about balance.

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>>43802981
I wonder how tight an Eldars butt is after all that training

Just got into the game a week or two ago and looking for cheap ways to bolster my Imperial Fist army any help would be appreciated
My current list of models is:

Captain Lysander(haven't used him just love the model)

Pedro Kantor

Thirty Legion Tactical Space Marines in MK4 armour

One Razorback

One Rhino

One Librarian/Chaplin

Five Cataphractii Terminators

One Contemptor Dreadnought

>>43801987
That new cadia valkyrie/vendetta formation is kinda nice on MT. Guaranteed no-scatter grav chute insertions and nice reserve manipulation to actually get multiple birds on the board. Time for some heliborne assaults

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>>43803001

This aspect armor feels like I'm wearing...

NOTHING AT ALL

>>43803026

Turn 10 of those tacticals into Sternguard.

Add 5 devastators with 4 lascannons. Pick up two more librarians (make them out of regular marines to save money) and turn the 3 librarians into a librarius conclave.

>>43802312
Just get rid of the vehicle damage table. Penetrating hits deals d3 HP damage instead of 1 and similar rule should be made for MC/GC. Extra armor and similar upgrades gives +1HP.

>>43802835

Rhinos let you shoot out of them and don't cost extra points.

Hard to go wrong with any heavy weapon and or a special with a similar role. GIve sargeant a matching combi and you should be in business.

>>43802324
This one's probably going further than dumb into a different realm of stupid
Dreadnoughts and units fitting the similar description are treated as MCs during the Shooting Phase

>>43803069

If he's not going to be bringing grav cannons and grav guns to shoot out the top of the Rhino, and is going for something like meltas, I can see bringing 6+ Razorbacks as TLLC decent. 20 points for a TLLC and mini-Rhino ain't bad and you get a lot of firepower.

In the end, taking rhinos and drop pods and grav is probably better overall and also cheaper.

How would you get the most out of your landraider spearhead?

Are librarius conclaves almost required now in marine lists?

>>43803093
>How would you get the most out of your landraider spearhead?

You don't take one.

>Are librarius conclaves almost required now in marine lists?

No, but taking at least one ML2 librarian is. If you have nothing to use all those librarians on, like a grav centurion squad, then they're just an expensive unit that runs around doing nothing or shooting fear bullets. You could have used those points to instead, buy an actually good unit like, again, grav centurions, or a 5 special command squad.

>>43803051
10 or 5 Sternguards?

>>43803081

Personally I'm a fan of the drop pod with a melta and combi-melta. Ghetto Sternguard essentially.

Flamer and combi-flamer aren't bad either.

>>43802854
Isn't 1 riptide mandatory in retaliation cadre? Also I wouldn't take missile pods in retaliation cadre when I could take cyclic ion blasters. They are much better in guaranteed turn 2 deep strike.

>>43803121

2 Squads of 5 Each in Drop Pods will do work.

>>43803131
ouch thats a bit pricey
aren't they each like 40 bucks? I usually use amazon

>>43803125
Youre correct. He needs a riptide.

>>43803137

If you want to run a demi-company you need 9-10 transports.

Drop pods go between 30-50 USD depending on your area. Rhinos too. Razorbacks are a few dollars more.

>>43803125
>>43803146
Sorry I had the riptide counter in the points but forgot to type it out. It's the Earth Caste Pilot Array, Stimulant Injector, Ion Accelerator, and Fusion Blaster.

>>43803156
whats the difference between Sternguards and Sternguard vets? I just want more varied models desu

>>43803114
My roomie is about to get the third LR for his formation. He keeps saying some shit about taking techs to heal them up a hp each turn on a 5+ or some shit. Is that true? Possible? Verdict? How the fuck do i kill that shit? [As tau]

Seeing as I'm bedridden for a few days due to a nastyass cold I thought "why not sign up to mechanicalturk, do menial jobs and get myself some minis when I have enough?"

Good idea or no?

>>43803164

Sternguard and Vanguard are the two elite infantry options. Sternguard gets special bolter ammo, Vanguard chop shit with swords.

>>43803165
Railguns, Melta Suits

>>43803179
I was thinking the Melta suit bomb, with buffy to give them tank hunter

Space Wolves player that just started with Vanilla Marines.

1750

1st Company Task Force

Elites:

Sternguard Veterans (10, Plasma Gun, Heavy Bolter, Sergeant w/ Power Sword) 260

Terminator Squad (5, Missile Launcher, 5 Chain Fists) 225

Sternguard Veterans (10, Grav-Gun, Meltagun, Sergeant w/ Power Sword) 260

Void Claws:

Wolf Guard Terminator (5 w/ 2 Wolf Claws) 240 points

Storm Wing:

Stormraven (Twin-linked Lascannons, Multimelta's, Extra Armour) 205

Stormtalon (Lascannons) 125

Stormtalon (Lascannons) 125

Inquisition:

HQ:

Ordo Malleus Inquisitor (Terminator Armour+Daemonhammer, Psycannon, Empyrean Brain Mines, Psyker ML1) 120

Ordo Malleus Inquisitor (Power Armour, Daemon Blade, Plasma Pistol, Empyrean Brain Mines, Psyker ML1) 68

Elites:

Warband
Crusaders X5

Psyker (base) 10

Ministorum Priest (Power Axe, Bolt Pistol) 41

Which Chapter Doctrine do you think would go best with this? I mean, I'm thinking Ultramarines for simplicity's sake, but I'm also feeling Imperial Fists to twin-link all of that Sternguard shooting. But, at the same time, Iron Hands would make them and those gunships more survivable.

>>43803165
Stormsurge :^)
Give them D-missiles and s10 ordnance blasts, truly the eldars have taught us well.

>>43803165

>How do I kill overpriced vehicles as the faction with the best ranged anti-tank weapons in the game?

It's a tough one that's for sure.

>>43803165
Only on a 5+? Gayyy. If he was really pro he'd be Iron Hands and have it be a 3+ roll with IWND.

Just use the fucking Firebase Support Cadre. Ordinance with tank hunter is extremely amusing.

Why did FW stop selling the Barracuda? It was the best Tau flyer. Now we're stuck with POS flyers.

>>43803271
But tau doesn't have wraithknights or wraithguard.

Does anyone know any sites that sell alternative models for imperial guard?

>>43803271
Its only 5+ unless the guy wants to spend 30 more points to make it 2+.

>>43803287
Miniwargaming did a Batrep the other day with min maxed Tau v. not War Host min maxed Eldar. He ran two wraith knights.

Even though he rolled very poorly for his S:D missiles, once the anchors got down it was impossible for the Knights to withstand 8d6 S5 missiles. Now Steve couldn't roll his 3+ to save his life, but Matt did roll shit for his S:D so it balanced out.

Stormsurges are the new Wraithknight.

>>43803293

Google around. There are tons. What style are you looking for?

This is just a concept, but how shitty is this list? I plan to put my Techmarine and perhaps a scout squad or two in my raiders when needed. Ironstone keeping everything up. It looks like a ton of armor most lists can't punch through. I want to use the Raiders as walls restricting LOS and roasting MEQ/shittier. I know I can optimize the points a bit better.

1841/1850 List

Iron Hands
-Combined Arms Detachment
-Landraider Spearhead

HQ
Smashfucker 255
-The Gorgon's Chain, Power Fist, Lightning Claw, Artificer Armor, Space Marine Bike

Techmarine 95
-The Iron Stone 30

Troop
5x Scouts 65
-Camo Cloaks 10

5x Scouts 65
-Camo Cloaks 10

3x Bike Squad 93
-2x Grav-gun 30

3x Bike Squad 93
-2x Grav-gun 30


Heavy Support
Space Marine Fire Raptor Gunship 225
-2x Twin-Linked Auto Cannons

Space Marine Sicaran Battle Tank 200
-Lascannon Sponsons, Schism of Mars

Land Raider Spearhead 750

Land Raider Redeemer 250
-Multi-melta 10
Land Raider Redeemer 250
-Multi-melta 10
Land Raider Redeemer 250
-Multi-melta 10

>>43803343
I was think about getting something that looks like death korps, or just something like the cadians that doesn't look awful.

>>43803356
I hope you don't like friends.

>>43803341
Is that the one where he ran melee wraith knights?

>>43803369

Dig a bit, but

http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/product/penal-guard-10-man-resin-squad

There are tons of options out there. Pig Iron, Anvil Industries, Kromlech, etc. etc.

I think FW Hostile Environment Cadians look cool.

>>43803371

Is it that bad?

>>43803392
I tried searching ig alternative models but i only found a website with quite a few suggestions. It said there were plenty more though so can you give me a reference for what to search for

>>43803375
Yeah which was dumb, but unless he rolls a 6 the Stormsurges still win that one.

>>43803398
Considering you're taking 3 Land Raiders with IWND, Smashfucker and biked grav guns. I mean not everyone is Necrons, Tau or Eldar.

Unless you're heading to a tourney or your local meta is super competitive you might wanna turn it down from 11.

>>43803402

There are dozens of google hits with discussions about this stuff already. "28mm heroic scale model" "alternative IG models" "alternative Imperial Guard Model"

Good luck.

File: 1445986331671.png (81KB, 918x616px)

81KB, 918x616px

>>43799997
>>43800184
>>43800895
>>43800944

>>43803341
> it was impossible for the Knights to withstand 8d6 S5 missiles.

Assuming the Missiles are fired at BS5 due to Markerlights, that works out at 28 shots, 23.3 hits, 3.8 wounds, 1.29 failed saves, finally reduced to 0.86 after Feel No Pain. Statistically all those missiles will do less than one Wound per turn, so you'll excuse me if I find that claim hard to believe.

>>43803417

Well, I prefer to start strong and then tone things down if needed. What can I do to make this list better?

I hear landraiders/spearhead formation suck, so I didn't think it would be that big of a problem.

>>43803446
>What can I do to make this list better?

Not minimizing Troops would be a good start. Taking a handful of minimum sized squads so you can cram in more OP shit is a pretty big "powergaming asshole" warning sign.

>>43803446
Well i for one dont enjoy 6 twin link laz cannons on MCs. So fuck that shit.

>>43803442
Not him but as silly as it sounds, reality has no room for statistics. Anything with an element of luck will always err towards ridiculous answers like Abaddon getting shot to pieces by a regular boyz squad or a lone firewarrior taking out a Knight-Titan with a lucky EMP grenade.

File: SAM.jpg (215KB, 1698x443px)

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Can anyone figure this one out?

>>43803456
And there's just as much chance that the "element of luck" will veer towards the Wraithknights being able to laugh off even what little damage the Missiles can do, as it will towards them losing a disproportionate number of wounds.

When you're trying to judge how good a unit or weapon is against a potential target, the only way to do so is to look at the hard math. You can't just say "well it fires loads of shots so it MUST be good!"

>>43803225
I plan to. I keep telling him not to take so much fucking armor lol.

Last time we played i stole initiative, rolled 6 and 6 to blow up his precious landraider with riptide (named Shputzka). I think hes still salty, because bow hes bringing 3. And a knight. And goddamn smashfucker. Come the fuck on!

>>43803471
You are very right, but in the end that only matters when it comes to anything competitive. If you play for fun and in a casual meta then you don't need to do anything of the sort. And nobody plays Wraithknights and Stormsurges in casual play unless they have a very skewed perception of what casual means.

>>43803442
>Statistically

Yeah. I'm all for mathhammer, but rolling 8d6 dice, rolling all those hits, rolling all those wounds and then asking him to make his two saves.

Go talk to Dave about only .86 wounds happening per 8d6. He would sure love to hear it as he cried over his dead Knights in turn 2.

and again Matt should have had only two of his S:D missiles wiff, but he had like 3 wiff.

It's all fun and math until you roll 5 ones in a row.

Hello. Sometimes ago on google docs was a Battlefleet Gothic revised edition books. Now that page is 404 error. Someone have it&

>>43803462
I have no fucking clue. Ive been trying to wrap my head around it. What the fuck does a devilfish have to do with skyrays? Is it because theyre considering it a scout vehicle, i guess?

>>43803497
>Someone have it?
fix

>>43803446
3 Landraiders don't suck. Don't listen to /tg/'s bullshit.

Thats 12 14/14/14 HP.

>>43803481
>>43803356

Do you two know eachother?

>>43803495
I watched it just today. It was a pretty heavy beatdown. What i want to see is matt play with the ion driver instead of the dumb blast cannon.

And seriously Dave's downfall was his melee knights.

>>43803485
>If you play for fun and in a casual meta then you don't need to do anything of the sort.

Which is true, though I'd argue that a good knowledge of what each unit in your army is capable of is helpful at any level of play. It doesn't mean you have to take the best units, but it does mean you have a better idea of what the units you like and want to use are capable of.

However, it's misleading when people post things like >>43803341, making wild claims about how capable a unit is that aren't actually substantiated. If we're talking about how good a unit is or isn't, then we should try being as realistic and accurate about the unit's capabilities as possible, surely?

>>43803520
I toom screens to show my roommate when he wakes up. I know it wasnt him because his ass has been asleep. But its more than a little creepy and strange to be honest.

>>43801703
I bet that with the new codex the infantry platoon will become a formation, and you will be able to combine all units in it. So you'll gain a single unit comprised of infantry, heavy weapons and command squad.

>>43801434
For me it's seeing a shitload of 5s come up on a roll and suddenly having the boys utterly bend whatever was bullying them seconds before.

Also the conversions.

>>43803530
When you say it like that, then yes, I agree with you. I would be lying if I said I didn't pit specific weapons against specific threats with tactics even in casual play. I just don't use OP units or abilities or I gimp myself to balance it out.

Yesterday night I had a thought in the previous thread of getting a box of pathfinders, making one into Darkstrider and using them as a spotter team (5 plain markerfinders) and a Sniper team (3 Rail Rifles with DS). It would be a powerful unit that can mulch paladin equivalents but fragile and severely reliant on my play, not to mention expensive.

>>43803520

Nope. I'm just born of a similar dickery I guess.

I like really tough armies. I like marines. I like the look of landraiders and my forgeworld shit. Just trying to make it the best I can if I were to jump into a competitive meta.

>>43802349
>>43802349
>>43802307
>>43802257
Around here General consensus is the opposite. The formation rules say that the unit can assault, and the the Indipendent Character rules say that an IC count as part of the unit for all purposes. There are formations rules that require all models of a unit to have them in order to work (see the eldar matchless agility) but it spelled out clearly, and this is not one of those cases.

So yes, it works.

>>43803530

I mean we can argue the Stormsturge v. Wraithknight all day.

However the Stormsruge is going to out perform the Wraithknight against most other things. The fact that it can lob 2 S10 AP1 large blasts, fire 8D6 S5 AP5, 8 twin linked S5 AP5 and 4 S:D missiles all while ignoring cover and BS5 with 3 MLs.

The Stormsurge is going to do more for only 120 points more.

>>43803587
Even better is get Darkstrider and the new Tau gun emplacement, put DS on it and instant kill Nemesis Dreadknights equivalents with his -1T ability.

The screams of the GK and Tyranids will be heard across the earth.

>>43801500
If winning is all that matters, you should go play punchie with kindergardeners.

Win every time.

>>43803509
>laughing D weapon
>laughing melta

That's 750 points of garbage, scrub.

>>43803267
>Tau
>being able to deal with mass AV14
Spot the 40k equivalent of an armchair general

>>43803509
>literally nobody fields it at tournaments, let alone even fielding a single LR
>IT MUST BE GOOD DON'T LISTEN TO /tg/

Don't listen to /tg/ indeed. Bet you think BT "aren't that bad" too. Grav instantly immobilizes and 3 shots each one too.

>>43803630

It's like you don't realize they have melta options on literally every hardpoint and unit in their army, or that they've received a recent update that includes superheavies and stomps.

>>43801475
>Emperor's Shield Company
Made up of
1 Company Command Squad (unit)
3 Emperor's Shield Infantry Platoons (formation)

>Emperor's Shield Platoon.
Made up of:
1 Infantry Platoon (unit - This is 1 Platoon Command Squad and minimum 2 Infantry Squads)
1-3 Sentinel Squadrons (unit - 1 to 3 Sentinels)

Ergo, for the "Formation of Formations" you need at minimum
HQ Company Command Squad
3x Troop Platoon Command Squads
6x Guardsman Infantry Squads
3x Sentinel Squadrons (3 Sentinels)

>>43803630
Mhmm. I dont have enough points in 1500 to give to just tank killers. Also ive one got the 1 broadside and 1 hammerhead. Theres another broadside on he way but still.

>>43803623
OH WOW WHEN DID THE FUCKING CHAOS SPACE MARINES, SISTERS OF BATTLE, ORKS, SPACE MARINES, TYRANIDS, DARK ELDAR AND GUARD GET S:D WEAPONS. THEY'LL BE SO HAPPY!

Not everyone is Tau/Eldar. Not even fucking Crons have S:D.

>>43803631
>mentioning tournaments
>observing tournaments
>having anything to do with tournaments
>tournaments

Go away.

>>43803462
Whats there to figure out?
Fish is supposed to be a pathfinder fish with that super sensor drone, providing enhanced targeting and countermeasures.

File: 99120101075_LandSpeederStormNEW01.jpg (40KB, 600x620px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 600x620px

does pic also operate as a scout squad?

>>43803462
Considering it was a reworked Apockalypse formation they probably meant that it can fire all missiles with a single markerlight instead on only one.

>>43803356

This is me. Apologies for cheesy/shitty/whatever list. I really did just want advice, not a pissing contest on if landraiders suck or not.

Going off the assumption they aren't worth it, I really want to take my marines in a direction.

I like Raptors a lot but I hate their boring colour scheme.

Red Scorpions seem pretty sweet, Apothecaries and their SC Librarian are interesting.

White Scars are fine. Kind of boring.

Iron Hands speak to me because I like vehicles, but I need help getting the most of it.

I'm interested in GK allies, though that's probably terrible.

>>43803687
LRs do really well against most armies and get fucked by others. The list is fine, run it and see how you handle your local meta-if you consistently trash anyone you play, tone it down.

>>43803652
Plenty of D in FW.

>>43803687

Err, I really like the movement shenanigans of White Scars. I'm a big fan of their Stormlance Battle Demi-Company, and I feel like there is a way to abuse all of that.

>>43803698
Not many people are willing to sell their unborn children's soul to FW.

>>43800356
Void Claws are great for any army that has a heavy Deep Strike emphasis. All you really need now is an Inquisitor with Servo-skulls and you're all set to start raping everything.

Hell, you don't even need to be Battle Brothers with them in order to use that ability, being that it is an ability that doesn't target the models.

>>43803712
Conversions and Chinamen.

>>43803652
Heres m Fuck Your Armor list. Maybe. Retaliation comes in behind the armor line asap.

Hunter Cadre
····Command
········Commander
············XV8 Commander Crisis Suit [Command and Control Node, Multi-spectrum Sensor Suite, Neuroweb System Jammer, Puretide Engram Neurochip]
····Elite
········XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuits [Bonding Knife Ritual]
············Ghostkeel Shas'vre [Advanced Targeting System, Early Warning Override, Fusion Collider, 2x MV5 Stealth Drone, Twin-linked Flamer]
················Ghostkeel Battlesuit [Blacksun Filter, Multi-tracker]
····Fast Attack
········Pathfinder Team
············4x Pathfinder [4x Photon Grenades, 4x Pulse Carbine with Markerlight]
········Pathfinder Team
············4x Pathfinder [4x Photon Grenades, 4x Pulse Carbine with Markerlight]
····Heavy Support
········KV128 Stormsurges
············KV128 Stormsurge [Cluster Rocket System, 4x Destroyer Missile, Early Warning Override, Pulse Driver Cannon, Shield Generator, Target Lock, Twin-linked Flamer, Twin-linked Smart Missile System]
····Troops
········Strike Team [5x Fire Warrior x 3

Retaliation Cadre
····Commander
········XV8 Commander Crisis Suit [2x Fusion Blaster]
····XV104 Riptide Battlesuits
········Riptide Shas'vre [Ion Accelerator, Riptide Shield Generator, Stimulant Injector, Target Lock, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster]
············Riptide Battlesuit [Blacksun Filter, Multi-tracker]
····XV8 Crisis Battlesuits
········Crisis Shas'ui [2x Fusion Blaster]
············Crisis Battlesuit [Blacksun Filter, Multi-Tracker]
····XV8 Crisis Battlesuits
········Crisis Shas'ui [2x Fusion Blaster]
············Crisis Battlesuit [Blacksun Filter, Multi-Tracker]
····XV8 Crisis Battlesuits
········Crisis Shas'ui [2x Fusion Blaster]
············Crisis Battlesuit [Blacksun Filter, Multi-Tracker]
····XV88 Broadside Battlesuits
········Broadside [Twin-linked Heavy Rail Rifle, Twin-linked Plasma Rifle]
············Broadside Battlesuit [Blacksun Filter, Multi-tracker]

>>43803462
>Flat out with skyrays
>Proceed to fire seekers anyway

>>43803751
I assume theyd still be snapshots, though.

>>43803738
That's a little over kill.

Have every Shas'ui carry a two meltas with a target lock while his buddies carry plasma rifles. Don't make the mistake of killing his armor only to have his infantry wipe the floor with you.

>>43803766
Not if fired by a ML :^)

If I ally grey knights and guard I could buy a chimera for a squad and have the knights move in to it, move 12" and flat out.

Correct?

>>43803768
Hmm. You think so? As many games as ive played, im still getting a feel how much i need. I mean, hes pretty much running that list the guy posted with smashfucker and 3 LRs, plus termies. I agree on the suits though. I need some plamsa rifles to kill the terminators. Then again, my long range pie plates do a great old job. I could, in fact, go back to doing what i was doing before: taking ion rifles with my pathfinders. Thats how ive wiped the floor with our chaos player in he pre 1k matches.

>>43802096
I like this in theory but it really just screws over Nids.

>>4380377

...fucking lol...

>>43803695

Roger that. What do you think of Predators in a list like this, say if I was willing to cut the Land Raiders?

>>43803612
>All weapons, 4 S:D missiles, ignore cover and BS5 with 3 MLs
That's minimum of 7 markerlight hits. That's on average either 8 drones+buffmander (+216p minimum for that) or 14 pathfinders (+154p). If you want those ignore cover and +BS on more than 1 target you are going to need even more markerlights because markerlight buffs are only against the target unit and not just general buff.
The thing is, stormsurge gets super good with unit support which will add up in points, wraithknight is really good on it own.
Besides if we are going to sperg about potential buffs then wraithknight is also perma invisible and guided (and any other psychic fuckery) marching 12'' per turn firing D and eventually stomping everything on it's path :^)

>>43802429
I read it as the Tank Commander is in one of the Tank Squads.

>>43803787

Predators are also bad. Side armor is too low and all the weapon points are either underwhelming or too expensive. Sicarans make them obsolete.

>>43803642
>Emperor's Shield Platoon
Restrictions:
The Infantry Platoon must include at least five Infantry Squads. Units taken as part of the Infantry Platoon may not take Dedicated Transports.

Ergo, you should first read the formations before you try to act smart on the internets.

>>43803787
yeah, what >>43803799 said. Better options all around for anything they can do

>>43803799

Makes sense. Is there something I can maybe put in the landraiders to utilize their transport capacity more?

>>43803789
This is what i explain to people. The knights and wk are fine on their own, but a SS, and arguably any component of a tau army, requires support.

The biggest reason i LOVE 7e tau is that, compared to 6, it feels like more than numbers. The synergy is tangible and extremely rewarding. Its not winning through dice. Tau make me feel like im a goddamn tau commander. Theyre good at focus fire, its their niche, and Kauyon really captured that well.

>>43803789
Then you just take an assassin as an ally and tell the Eldar to fuck off with their buffs :^)

>>43803823
>Wraithknight can move 12'', farseers are on jetbikes and move 10000''
>Culexus is left to eat shit :^)

>>43803794
>>43802429
Formations aren't this hard. They state what units it is composed, what restrictions apply and what benefits it will bestow.
Units: Check these data sheets and do as they say. In this case You take tank commander (which must take companion tank), 3 LR squadrons and 1-3 Enginseers. That's minimum of 5 Leman Russes and 1 Enginseer.

>>43803817
We here at Chaos Marines are glad that you can destroy us even easier than before. Formations when? Fucking IG got theirs.

>>43803778

>If a Tyranid Monstrous Creature under the effect of Synapse suffers a wound, the roll on the Monstrous Damage chart suffers a -3 penalty.

Not quite the old Immune to Instant Death but it would help alleviate the issues for Nids if such a table came in.

I guess I'm just tired of watching my Orkanauts explode into scrap whenever someone points a melta at one but a Monstrous Creature on 1 wound left is still at 100% combat effectiveness. It also doesn't really make sense either; a weapon capable of punching through the heaviest armour in the galaxy and detonating inside, obliterating the vehicle utterly, is unable to fell a Monstrous Creature in a single hit, despite them being full of organs that they would be sorely pressed without.

>>43803861
Soon, friends. I think IG and nids are in the immediate pipeline. That leaves chaos left. Orkz dont matter

>>43801987
It would be nice if they added something of a light tank variant for them to boost their medium/long range potency cause the taurox just doesn't cut it at times. Even a measly 12/10/10 would do since that's basically a hellhound or armoured sentinel, hell make it fast so it can keep pace with the rest of the army. Maybe even make Command squads dole out 2 orders rather than one since you only get 1 variant to play with anyway so just do that and boost their versatility. Also, an extra 6 inches to their gun cause 18 always feels damn awkward as hell since it's shorter than most standard weapons from other armies and often forces you to move to get the most out of the squad since 3/5 of the special weapons they get have longer range than that and one of those is a salvo so paradoxically moving is a bad idea with that one. Someone mentioned flyers and the Vendetta is a godsend for them, but strangely isn't included.

>>43803886
>tank
Gross. Play guard if you want tanks. Drop-sents would be pretty sweet tho.

>>43803886
>Stormtroopers in stormtroopers. MT Centurions incoming.

>>43803861
What decurion bonuses could Chaos get?

Would be cool if we got legion tactics in the form of legion Decurions. We would get like 6 of them but balanced in that you can take only specific chaos marks.

>>43803914
I already play guard to get access to said Vendetta and sweet, sweet, Leman Russ variants. Besides as much as I like the Sentinel model there is no reason for me to get them due to being walkers with bs3 and even worse stats than a Dreadnought. A fast tank fills the void and I wouldn't have to ally guard to get some extra ranged firepower on the field.

File: 99120101138_SMDemiCompany01.jpg (65KB, 600x620px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 600x620px

i was going to get into space marines and was curious if this was a good thing to pick up. i wanted to make them Exorcists and wanted to know if this could be turned into them lore wise.

>>43803936

>If a model wins a Challenge, they may roll twice on the Chaos Boon table and apply both results.

It's not going to be something actually good and you know it

>>43803944
those are a good start, and its only "basic troops", so they can be used for pretty much any chapter expect maybe space wolves or black templars.

>>43802324

>>43737239
>>43737255
>>43737266

>>43803944
A Demi-company is literally the most fluffiest and most codex aderent way of playing marines in existence.

It's also a good start.

>>43803941
They're alternative heavy weapons teams. I remember liking them quite a bit back when doctrines were a thing.

>>43803968
>>43803985
Should i pick up librarian to make it fit Exorcist.

>>43803945
One can hope.

Thousand Sons decurion: Harness warp charges on 3+, all squad sergeants and chosen are considered ML1 Psykers and all bolt weaponry available to the units in this decurion have Inferno bolts. Requires at least a Warlord Sorc hq or Ahriman, 2-6 Troops of rubric Marines, 1-3 Terminators and a unit of Chosen. All models must have the Mark of Tzeentch.

>>43804017
Add in old sacred numbers so units must have 6,7,8,9 models for a free "veteran sergeabt" upgrade.

>>43804191
That sounds fucking rad, yeah.

What does everyone think? Would that be good, fluffy and balanced? Thousand Sons would get more psyker presence and easier casting and they're ranged weapons go from basic shit to fucking murder.

>>43804195
Alternatively, make their sorcs grant them rerollable inv saves if they use sacred numbers.

What models make good veterans on the table? Can't get Karskin for a reasonable price in my country, was thinking
Normal guard with some Pig Iron heads

>>43804230

Anything that's not a plain guard. Just throw a bunch of extra tactical crap on a cadian.

>>43804201
That'd certainly make them tough enough for their points cost, not that Rubrics aren't tough enough as it is.

Another alternative is that if you are using Sacred Numbers, you don't get perils or you can re-roll warp charges.

Quite frankly I'd like a change to how you harness in general. Deciding the number of dice and THEN rolling is stupid I think. You should roll as many dice as you want from your available pool, so if there's a power you REALLY want, you can keep rolling. You might get it off, but you get increasingly higher risks of perils and you drain your warp charge pool.

>>43804230
regular guardsmen with scion beret heads

>>43804271
>don't get perils
nah, that would be bonkers

>>43804292
Look at the decurion requirements. Everyone is ML1, so Tzeentch powers only which aren't that good. The only one who could benefit from that are the HQ sorc or Ahriman and they routinely take half their wounds off by periling. It wouldn't be OP, it would just make them USEABLE

Looked through GWs webstore and found this description of sniper drones

>Tau Sniper Drone Teams are the ultimate anti-infantry weapon in the Tau arsenal. Each drone is equipped with a Rail Rifle that can fire a high velocity projectile at such extraordinary speed that it will punch clean through the armour of almost any adversary. The resultant mess is enough encouragement for most enemies to dive for cover, cowering in fear that they may be singled out as the next target.

Since when? I don't have my book on me, but I am 99% sure they have long pulse sniper rifles, not fucking railguns.

>>43804364
I mean, to get any benefit for the HQ sorc, you'd have to buy him expensive mastery levels and Ahriman doesn't even have a fucking spell familiar and costs as much as a Land Raider!

File: Ork_Weirdboy_power.jpg (115KB, 847x1121px)

115KB, 847x1121px

How to fix orks, tg

>>43804364
>At start of your psychic phase, generate 3 random psychic powers from three different psychic power tables. All your psykers, brotherhood of psykers and psychic pilots in this formation knows these additional powers until the end of the phase. If they already have any of these powers already they can cast that power twice.

Randomness is Tzeeench and/or Chaos right? Did you rike it?

>>43804378
Description probablky hasn't been updated in a few years as before 6th, Sniper Drones had Rail Rifles I think.