Horus Heresy/30k General Discussion/List Thread, Erebus Porn

Fluffy, yet effective loadout for a deepstriking NL terminator command squad out of the BaC box with minor conversions at most?

Word Bearers+Daemons

>>Word Bearers Age of Darkness Detachment
>HQ
(175) Zardu Layak-Warlord
Rite of War: The Dark Brethren
(120) Centurion: Chaplain, Artificer Armor, Refractor Field, Power Axe as Crozius Arcanum, Power Sword
>Troops
(255) 15 Tactical Marines, Chainswords, Dark Channeling
(255) 15 Tactical Marines, Chainswords, Dark Channeling
>Fast Attack
(210) Storm Eagle
>Elites
(335) 9 Gal Vorbak, Dark Martyr with Tainted Weapon
>Lord of War
(350) Legion Typhon Heavy Siege Tank

>>Chaos Daemons Age of Darkness Detachment
>HQ
(300) Kairos Fateweaver
(350) Be’lakor
>Troops
(104) 11 Pink Horrors, Icon of Chaos
(45) 3 Nurgling Swarms

Thoughts, help welcome

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>>43728193
Third for Dorn, and the limpdick of iron getting his shit improved by the politician

Any place to get jump packs similar to the BA ones. Thought about converting some of those BaC Mk. IVs into assault marines, but only place to get those jump packs are bits stores, and they ain't cheap nor always available.

>>43728532
Just buy assault marines and BA conversion kits

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>>43728577
I don't want to make BA, I just want to make these with the BaC kit, but those jump packs are hard to come by.

>>43728245
Can't you RAW take Erebus instead of Zardu and a chaplain, as Erebus is explicitly a chaplain and a Diabolist and a MotL? Seems like not having 300 points of marine HQ and 650 points of Daemon HQ is a good point.

For the tainted weapon on the Gal Vorbak, try a Power Fist instead.

Then, this list has a low model count. You have 6 models over 120 each, and only 2 aare vehicles.

I'd trim either Belakor or Fateweaver. Probably Weaver, as his lack of EW means when a S10 blast scatters onto him, he will die.

In exchange, I'd deck out the Gal Vorbak more, and the tacticals also. Grab some apothecaries.

>>43728532
Those? bitz sellers, or bitz recasters. I got 25 packs for $12

>>43728716
>bitz sellers

The bits sellers who are almost always out or charge a ton of money for them?

>>43728716
Word Bearers require that you run at least two HQ's, so you can't only run Erebus. Zardu Layak is better at boosting Gal Vorbak Squadrons than Erebus is anyways.
I probably should cut fatey, as not being my warlord he doesn't really bring anything, what do you suggest I replace him with? More troops? Some Ashen Circle?
Tainted Weapon on the Dark Martyr is awesome with rending and has come a long way for me at least

Well, you guys were right. Once I removed the Phalanx Warders and Breachers and replaced them with Tac Squads, Artillery Battery and Master Of Signals I finally learned what it means to earn ones points value back in Tabletop Wargaming. The game went so much faster than a usual IF game with me since unlike the Phalanx and Breachers the Tac Squads and other beefed up shooty squads actually made things happen. Otherwise as usual the second game with my Word Bearers (http://pastebin.com/aQ93tEBf) kicked ass. Anyway, now my Imperial Fists army looks like this:

2500 points

---HQ---

Alexis Polux - 165 points

Legion Centurion - 85 points
-Master of Signals


---Troops---

(10) Legion Tactical Squad - 175 points
-Power Fist for Sargent
-Artificer Armor for Sargent


(10) Legion Tactical Squad - 175 points
-Power Fist for Sargent
-Artificer Armor for Sargent


---Elites---

(10) Legion Terminator Squad - 535 points
-Cataphractii Terminator Armor
-Thunder Hammers for everyone
-Vigil Pattern Storm Shields for everyone
-Grenade Harness for Terminator Sargent

(10) Legion Veteran Tactical Squad - 250 points
-2 Heavy Bolters and Suspendor Webs
-Artificer Armor for Sargent
-Veteran Tactics: Sniper

(3) Legion Rapier Weapons Battery - 165 points
-Laser Destroyer Arrays


---Heavy Support---

(10) Legion Heavy Support Squad - 435 points
-10 Lascannons
-Tank Hunter (Imperial Fists Special Rule)


(10) Legion Heavy Support Squad - 335 points
-10 Missile Launchers
-Tank Hunter (Imperial Fists Special Rule)
-Flak Missiles


---Dedicated Transports---

Rhino - 60 points
-Extra Armor
-Havoc Launcher

Rhino - 60 points
-Extra Armor
-Havoc Launcher

Rhino - 60 points
-Extra Armor
-Heavy Flamer

>>43728245
>>43728245
You don't need the Nurglings you only need to have 1 mandatory troop choice for allies. Take out Kairos Fateweaver you're not using enough psykers/Tzeentch guys to justify him being there. Replace Centurion with Erebus he completes the requirement and is better in every way. If you're using Zardu get his two extra guys he comes with. Get some transports for the Tac Squads especially if you intend for them to get up close.

Noob question:
Where do you buy 30k minis? Lurking for conversion material.

One more thing before I leave for the gym. Vote what I do with my Phalanx Warders now that I have no use for them! Which Legion should I convert them to/be the next army I should work towards?

http://strawpoll.me/6048792
http://strawpoll.me/6048792
http://strawpoll.me/6048792
http://strawpoll.me/6048792
http://strawpoll.me/6048792

The options are:

Thousand Sons: My favorite legion/chapter along with Word Bearers, but nothing's out yet and won't possibly be till next year.

Salamanders: Some of the best armor/defenses plus the best in flaming and melta? Sounds interesting.

Raven Guard: Lots of scouting/infiltrating rend cheese possible here. Dark Furies are the best assault squad, too. Bikes also viable and that's cool cuz bikes are cool.

Alpha Legion: Read their sections in the books for the first time last night. Most trolltastic Legion design by far right here.

Sons of Horus: Don't know them too well but their options look interesting from the surface.

Ultramarines: I have quite a few of these guys. Even in 40k I am mainly chaos, so a lot of my Imperial Fists are converted Ultramarines that came with Betrayal at Calth which I mainly bought to get myself more Word Bearers. And chances are if one of the other Legions get picked it's gonna be the Phalanx and these leftovers that are gonna be converted for the new army. Plus the way everyone has talked about Invictarii especially against the Phalanx Warders make me wanna try them out.

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How capable Lion was compared to the other Primarchs?

>>43729616

He was a highly talented commander and strategist, unfortunately his people skills and trust issues got in the way.

>>43729290
I'm glad to hear it went well. I'm also glad to see that you tried out some new things, despite us being a bit on the side of assholes. In any case, I do have a couple things to point out. You might want to split the lascannon squad into two smaller squads. Ten tank hunter lascannons is a bit much to shoot at most things. Same with the missiles, but not as bad. If it survives five lascannons, you either rolled for shit or you're shooting at something you probably shouldn't.

Also, I'm not sure that you need storm shields on every single terminator. It's a bit of a waste of points, as you only need to have majority T5. Then again, you might not want to risk losing the bonus, so I can understand the way you have that set up. I'm pretty sure you don't need everyone with thunder hammers, though. Power fists should suffice for practically everything.

>>43728193
>Dat pic.
I am a Word Bearers fan, and I approve of this message.

Question

Why were the Night Lords allowed to roam unchecked and with imperial sanction terrorizing worlds beyond necessity FOR TWENTY YEARS?

The Emperor has to have known about this.

>>43729616
A great military leader and tactician, but not at all charismatic.

>>43730027
Why did the Emperor wait for practically the entire length of the Crusade to tell the Word Bearers to stop being a cult? Then, why did he do it with his asshole setting on 11?

>>43730027
Emps knew and realized their particular brand of warfare was useful.

>>43730111
>>43730027

Why didnt the Emperor tell the only person in the galaxy who could possibly fuck up his magic door experiment and who coincidentally is absolutely crucial and center piece of that very invention?

And why didnt the custodes and sisters of silence, his home boys and girls from terra not think that maybe the BigE should get a ring on what Horus just told Viking Scruffybeard to do.

>>43730027
They had gone renegade, if that's what you are talking about. They didn't really have Imperial sanction, and they stopped trying to do so in the Emperor's name a long while back. The only reason they were called for the Dropsite Massacre was probably a lack of communication on the part of various members of the Imperium.

>>43730111
I think the main problem is that he felt the Word Bearers were moving too slowly. He let his sons get away with a lot, including the faith his Legion has shown even as the Imperial Heralds, but perhaps he was worried that Lorgar was going to ruin the Imperial Truth for the rest of the Imperium with all his religious nonsense.

>>43730160
It was supposed to be a secret, and it was connecting a human-build webway to an Eldar one - copying a xenos invention. It would've caused a good few problems, especially with the Imperium's anti-xenos policy, if the Emperor didn't show them the benefits of the thing first.

Horus was supposed to have more or less the Emperor's authority as the Warmaster. Think ASOIAF and the Hand.

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>>43730244
>Think ASOIAF and the Hand

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>>43730160
Why did Horus order an entire Legion destroyed which was going to join him on the side of Chaos eventually? And why didn't Magnus ever find out that it was Horus who tricked Russ?

>>43730596
>Why did Horus order an entire Legion destroyed which was going to join him on the side of Chaos eventually?
He didn't know that Magnus would survive/hoped the Wolves would destroy themselves/maybe push Magnus to join him.
>And why didn't Magnus ever find out that it was Horus who tricked Russ?
It doesn't matter now. A shard of Magnus forgives Russ.

>>43728899
I'm saying you can run Erebus and a Librarian or something. RAW Erebus+something random for HQ works. a Medic for FNP gal vorbak? Librarian for more psykers?

Anyways, I'd go with the fist as you will still ID almost anything with that, and you don't need to rend, AND you can fuck up vehicles. Shit's great.

Anyways, I'm not even sure Belakor is useful enough in that list either.

You can definitely drop Fateweaver, and beef up your mainstay squads though. Apothecaries are great.

>>43730596

The SW were the tool that drove Magnus to join Horus.

>'Hail Warmaster! I offer you grim tidings of events that have destroyed fair Prospero and I offer you my services in the invasion of Terra. Though you and I have never been close, it now appears that we share common cause. The Emperor, who I had ever admired and loved, has spurned me and set his dogs on me as if I were but a petty criminal. The barbarians of Russ have destroyed my precious Prospero and foully murdered many of my dearest kith and kin. Only through the grace of a mutual ally was I able to escape the carnage and mine own death at the hands of the Wolf King.

>I never sought to become embroiled in your disagreement, but they have driven me to your side. I vow to make them regret that they have treated me so. I am much changed, our mutual ally has bequeathed me power beyond any mortal means to measure. You will fine me a most useful and loyal servant.

>Even as you receive this communique, the remnant of my Legion and I are marshaling at the moons of Fasdahn-Oryx in preparation of transit to the Solar System. We await your orders to move on Terra.'

>>43729419
Forgeworld, or if you want a starter kit, Betrayal at Calth.

>>43729422
What models do you already own?

>>43729971
I take everything as a learning experience. For example, I got to feel my stubbornness towards you guys at work. I am a business analyst, and I have to work with quality assurance as well. Most college students going straight into quality assurance don't know how IBM Rational Doors work. They thought they didn't need my help and kept acting stubborn and didn't get shit done until I went up to their spot and noticed they didn't get shit done. Frustrating yet understandable cuz everyone wants to prove themselves.

I have Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields on every Termie honestly cuz Imperial Fists look cool as shit like that.

Yeah you're right about the having more than 5 man heavy support being too much. Might as well grab a few outriders since I got a few bikes leftover after building my 40k Slaanesh bike list.

>>43731044
I can't argue with aesthetics. Fists look great with thunder hammers. I think you're fine with the number of heavy weapon dudes, just not with the distribution. That's a whole lot of hate in one squad.

Who do you think the next primarch model will be? Which one are you most excited for?

>>43731067
I know that's a factor in 40k, but even in 30k where giant blobs of infantry are encouraged?

>>43731147
Next is probs gonna be Lion cuz book 6 is Dark Angels. Obviously I am looking forward to Magnus. Very curious and interested to see what they are gonna do with him. Very happy with Lorgar and how he's rightfully the weakest starting out but is frightening when Transfigured.

>>43731147
i heard it was going to be Dorn, somewhere

Got my copies of The Unburdened and The Honored in the mail today. I like how since each book is devoted to the WB and UM respectively, they spiced up the Dramatis Personae a little bit.

>The False Imperium

The Emperor - The Reluctant God, and unworthy Master of Mankind

Malcador the Sigillite - First Lord of Terra, simpering lackey to the Throne.

>The XIII Legion 'Ultramarines'

Roboute Guilliman - Primarch, the thrice-accursed Lord of Ultramar

>The XVII Legion 'Word Bearers'

Lorgar Aurellian - Primarch, the Urizen, the Bearer of the Word

Kor Phaeron - First Captain, the Black Cardinal, architect of Calth's doom.

>>43731147

Pretty sure next is Corvax with either Dorn or Alpharius to follow.

>>43731248
Giant blobs are encouraged, but not always a great idea. You might be fighting enough tanks to warrant ten lascannons. Few things warrant ten lascannons being fired at it and when it does happen, you should probably be using something a bit stronger than lascannons, or at the very least a better strategy.

>>43731147
It's going to be Corax, the sculptor at FW in charge of Primarchs has said at previous HH Weekenders/Open Days he's been working on him.

>>43731533
>>43731320
Yay, Corax!

Time to save up $100 for a centerpiece model.

>>43728193
Is the Plasma Cannonade for the Deredeo any good?

>>43731551
Considering he's going to be mounted on a wrecked Warlord Titan, it'll probably be more than $100.

>>43731320
>The Reluctant God
Never has a title for Big E been so accurate.

>>43729616
Amazing duelist and strategist but had the autisms

>>43731324
Ahh. Well, my Heavy support now consists of one 5 man Lascannon team and two 5 man Missiles team. Extra points went towards an Attack Bike Squad for badass fast moving melta bomb drops.

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Of the 3 Daemonic Lords of War options that Word Bearers have (Transfigured Lorgar, Samus, and Cor'Bax Utterblight) which one do you think is the best? Particularly a melee based Word Bearers army?

>>43731608
$102.75I hope.

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>>43732213
SHAKE ZULA, THE MIC RULA

Alright guys, rank the primarchs from best to worst. I'm curious.

>>43732305
What is this I don't even

>>43732321
Best: Magnus, Lorgar
Second Best: Horus, Angron, Sanguinius
Damn Good: Vulkan, Alpharius
Pretty Good: Rogal Dorn, Fulgrim
Meh: Jaghatai Khan, Perturabo, Corvux Corax
Lame: The Lion, Ferrus Manus, Mortarion
Awful: Rowboat Girlyman, Leman Russ

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>>43732437
You're forgetting someone...

>>43732321
>rank the primarchs from best to worst

How to devolve a thread into shitflinging of

>"autisim"
>"gay"
>"decimation temper tantrum"
>"no background/gottagofast"
>"yiff"
>"muh walls"
>"edgy batman wannabe"
>"sue"
>"muh hands"
>"Angry Ron's angry retards"
>"smurf"
>"no background"
>"Magnus did nothing wrong"
>"daddy didn't trust me"
>"bible bashers"
>"token black guy"
>"CRAWLIIIIING INNNNN MY SKIIIIIIIIIIN"
>"2deep4u"

in one easy post.

Oh well, any I wanna try to run this for an army that can use Lorgar. It's very much based on tricks Chaos Space Marines and Chaos Daemons can use. The Diabolist Centurion, Lorgar, and Be'Lakor all pull the Invisibility close combat trick. Lorgar also takes Prescience or Precognition for more dirty tricks. Erebus comes in with the Gal Vorbak making an excellent deep strike head on charge team. The Ashen Circle does everything you expect from a fast attack style strike squad to do. All of these are supported with support fire from the tactical squads and meatshield/tarpit from Nurglings. What do you guys think? I'll finally buy Lorgar if this works.

2500 points

Rite Of War: The Dark Brethren

---HQ---

Erebus - 195 points

Legion Centurion - 185 points
-Diabolist
-Burning Lore
-Pair Of Lightning Claws
-Artificer Armor
-Refractor Field
-Jump Pack
-Melta-Bombs


---Troops---

(10) Legion Tactical Squad - 200 points
-Dark Channelling
-Power Fist for Sargent
-Artificer Armor for Sargent

(10) Legion Tactical Squad - 200 points
-Dark Channelling
-Power Fist for Sargent
-Artificer Armor for Sargent


---Fast Attack---

(10) The Ashen Circle - 370 points
-9 Power Axes
-Artificer Armor for Iconoclast
-2 Phosphex Bombs for Iconoclast


---Elites---

(10) Gal Vorbak Dark Brethren - 390 points
-2 Power Weapons
-Tainted Weapon for Dark Martyr
-Artificer Armor for Dark Martyr


---Dedicated Transports---

Legion Tactical Squad: Rhino - 60 points
-Extra Armor
-Havoc Launcher

Legion Tactical Squad: Rhino - 60 points
-Extra Armor
-Havoc Launcher


---Lords of War---

Lorgar - 450 points
-Transfigured


+++Allied Detachment: Chaos Daemons+++

---Hq---

Daemon Prince - 345 points
-Daemon of Nurgle
-Daemonic Flight
-Warp-Forged Armor
-Greater Rewards: Balesword
-Exalted Rewards: Grimoire Of True Names
-Psyker Mastery Level 3

---Troops---

(3) Nurglings - 45 points

>>43732475
He ranges from being among the best to meh. I couldn't figure out where to put him.

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>>43732504

>>43731770
It wasn't so much autism as being raised in an environment that was somehow more antisocial than Konrad's.

It's like old people and computers, he's never going to grasp social interaction like a normal person because in his youth social interaction was giant monsters trying to eat him. You can't teach an old dog new tricks.

>>43732892
It's kind of worse than that. Turns out, social contact is very important to developing children, and they end up all messed up without it. Only reason that Lion ended up mostly okay was because his superhuman primarchness.

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>>43732437
>Awful: Rowboat Girlyman

>>43732933
I know, but that's hard to explain with getting "So...autism" as your reply.

Really it's a fucking miracle Lion could actually speak. Language is just straight up not something people can learn to do after like three.

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How would you kitbash an Emperor model?

Emperor's Children terminator body

Kor Phaeron's left claw

Sigismund's sword

Eidolon's head (with added green stuff hair on the shaved side)

Horus' cloak

Would the scale be big enough? What else?

>>43733140
Primarchs can do a lot of shit regular people straight up cannot.

>>43733183
A) Emps is blatant wearing Artificer Armor in that pic.

B) I'm pretty sure they make a flaming sword somewhere in the fantasy line that would go better.

>>43733183
>Would the scale be big enough?
No, which is why you make five of them and stack them in a pyramid as a single model

>>43729616
Is that a chaos lord?

>>43733183
Kabuki models have a really nice one. Just use the $40 and buy that one.

Yours would be tiny in comparison, and have goofy proportions.

>>43731590
Since the choice is between that and the autocannons, the answer is "maybe".

The autocannons are one more strength, meaning a better chance to pen/glance against vehicles, and Sunder improves the chance of glancing fortifications. Also S8 is the Instant Death threshold for almost all HH infantry, and AP3 is good for almost everything except Terminators and pimped-out characters. They also have a much longer range.

The plasma cannons are still plenty strong enough. S7 doesn't pen as often as S8, but then again, when you do pen you can actually cause an Explodes! due to AP2. AP2 also means it's even better against hardcore infantry like terminators and characters in artificer armor.

Interceptor and Skyfire means that the autocannons are extra great against flyers, with an excellent chance of stripping 2+ hull points off of an AV12 flyer (and a reasonable chance even if it jinked) as soon as it comes on. Conversely, Deep Striking units (read: Terminators) will be vaporized by the plasma cannons, meaning that if it's placed well it can fuck up alpha strikes before they happen.

In summary, both are good but it depends on what you want it to do. This is pretty true of everything HH, since ForgeWorld actually can into balance unlike their parent GW. Most alternatives are good in the right circumstances and points-equivalent generally, so it's a case of whether or not it meshes with the strengths and covers the weaknesses of the other stuff you want to run.

>>43734083
Mortarion, the legion specific terminators, tac squads, heavy support with flak missles, spartan

>>43734146
In that case, I'd go with the plasma cannons (well, I do and what you run is almost exactly what I run).

This is because Death Guard legion-specific terminators (Deathshroud, Grave Wardens) are awesome against almost everything EXCEPT other legion's terminators, whether generic or legion-specific ones.

So the 4-shot S7 AP2 BS5 re-roll to-hit shots, with the option to have a BS5 re-roll to-hit Large Blast instead for the cost of Gets Hot, is a big advantage. Flack missiles can handle flyers, and ordnance lascannons on the spartan can duel with heavy armor (along with Deathshroud trolling with mass-Melta bombs).

>>43734083
Mortarion, the legion specific terminators, tac squads, heavy support with flak missles, spartan

>>43732753
>Magnus with two eyes
HERESY
E
R
E
S
Y

>>43728678
They look pretty close to the Sanguinary Guard jump packs without the wings, you might be able to find those somehow.

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>>43734296
>my pic still gets posted

Weird.

Anyways, I'm wondering if any of you guys have had success running Veteran tactical squads in your lists? I'm putting together a squad of World Eater veterans with 3 power weapons, a heavy bolter, and a sergeant with power claw. I'm feeling like I should dedicate a land raider to their delivery if they're worth running at all, but at the end of the day I'm more concerned about the hobbying aspect of making some cool looking dudes.

Pic related is the first one I've painted up.

>>43730244
>The only reason they were called for the Dropsite Massacre was probably a lack of communication on the part of various members of the Imperium.
I thought the Night Lord's just kind of showed up and volunteered to help. And the loyalists were like "You guys are kind of renegades, but this is some serious shit so we'll take all the help we can get." Which sounds naive, but when you consider the Night Lords were somewhat of a proto-inquisition in how they dealt with traitors when they were part of the GC, it sort of makes sense that they would volunteer to fuck up the traitor legions.

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Are 20 man Assault Marine squads viable for troop choices with Night Lord's rules? Not the RoW as taking more troops than the three Terror Squads would be silly.

If you took Curze you guarantee 1st turn Night Fighting so all your dudes get stealth and +1 to that on first round for being spooky men from the shadows. This would give a blob some turn 1 survivability to try and get to assault range without getting shot to shit. Not perfect, but better than nothing. Jump packs make your dudes bulky so they count as two models while determining whether they outnumber their victims for the +1 to wound for A Talent for Murder.

I've never really played with jump infantry much so I'm not sure if this would be a viable troop strategy. Any thoughts on this?

>>43735809
Assault marine squads will probably become more viable with the new legion book coming in 2016

>>43733389
That's Lion El'Johnson, Primarch of the Dark Angels. So, technically, yes

>>43737589
This meme needs to die. The Lion is pro Emperor.

>>43737624
You already have a bland Primarch.
Without that meme your Primarch would be super-boring.

>>43735024
They ARE the BA Sanguinary Guard jump packs. And like I said, they're hard to come by and are expensive. I'm asking for (3rd party) alternatives. Basically a single (main) thruster backpack, not the more traditional two thruster on that you can find all over the place.

Has the LA-Crusade book not gotten a good scan or something?

Starting blood angels force using the new BaC set, and I was looking for the generic legion rules.

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I need Sanguinary guard jump packs for my Palatine blades but cant find them on ebay. Whats the best bits website? Please help

>>43733183
Big E was giant. None of the current models have the scale right.

>>43733183
I never noticed Big E's claw in his left hand.

>>43732213
IIRC both those daemon princes lack eternal warrior so I think Lorgar is by far the best.

Samus could be good, but not in 30k, only 40k. Atleast until 1ksons get released.

>>43736744
> the new legion book coming in 2016

I can wait that long. At my current rate of expansion it'll be 2017 before I can field a 2000 point army.

>>43739300
Yeah, that's why I eventually chose Lorgar and came up with >>43732723 also it's even more helpful since Transfigured Lorgar is a beastly psyker, too so I have him, the Diabolist, and the customized generic Daemon Prince pull invisibility troll tactics.

>>43739053
In one older picture he had just a sword and a bolt pistol. In the original Horus vs Emps picture I don't think he had claws. It's been a while since I've seen it though.

>>43734227
another question is how do you think the new Leviathan would fit into the army? needed addition or is the Dorito enough dread firepower?

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>>43739572

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>>43739594

>>43739594
>>43739618
There's claws in both of those
Also ffs the top pic would be AT LEAST OK if Horus didn't have downs

>>43739594
And I'm wrong. Horus looks like he's been through some things compared to >>43739618
Stay off Chaos, kids. Your body will thank you later. Horus in the older picture actually looks Chaos-y.

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>>43739572

>>43739594
>>43739618
Dammit I see so much lost potential every time I look at this. If we take the background and Emperor of the first pic, combine it with the colors, Horus, and Sanguinius of the second pic, it would be the perfect GOAT 40k pic. It's so weird how in the old pic Horus looks like a badly done miniature, but in the newer one the Emperor looks like a badly done miniature.

>>43739643
He was a Chaos follower. Chaos does like to give its followers unnecessary makeovers.
>>43739655
Big E looks so humble compared to his newer look.

>>43739618
Oh and a question: what chapter/faction/legion are the Marines behind the Emperor in this pic from? They look cool as shit.

>>43739665
There is a newer version of that picture. Used for the cover of a novel. I do like your idea though. I will never understand the faces on Emps's armor. What do they mean?

>>43739691
I saw a wolf head in SW style. It's Space Wolves.

>>43737624
It's not a meme if it's true.

I never realized it, but that older Emps picture has a look of disgust on his face I think.

>>43739691
Those are the Emperor's Custodians. They are responsible to janitorial duties around the palace.

>>43739654
It's the lights underneath his chin that makes him look weird.

>>43739746
But it's not true.
>>43739764
Given all of the changes the Vengeful Spirit went through during the Heresy, Horus probably did change a little.

>>43739618
The remade image has tons of composition errors if you actually look at the angles.

>>43739721
Oh shit from which novel? And yes those faces are retarded.

>>43739736
Where's the wolf head.

>>43739761
My initial guess was Adeptus Custodes, too. But AC don't use bolters.

>>43739911
>My initial guess was Adeptus Custodes, too. But AC don't use bolters.
They're Imperial Fists with the older color scheme.

>>43739930
Ohhh shit I forgot they ran that dark greyish and yellow color scheme, too. Shit I needa finish work early today and paint my Fists to that.

>>43728193

When will the non "shitty-board game" bundles of the Heresy be back?

What are seeker squads good for?

>>43739911
I can't remember. An anthology I think. The wolf head is one the shoulder pad of one of the marines on the right.

>>43733389
Could it be... the filename? Could it be... specifically the person being talked about... Could it be... both of those things because they are the same thing? Why do I come here...? I get dumber reading this shit.

>>43739746
It's not true or not true.
THAT IS THE ENTIRE POINT.

Just because it is your favourite colour scheme to jerk off to doesn't mean you get to dictate the lore to people. Or, maybe you just have a more superficial understanding of the Dark Angels fluff then you realize/are willing to admit to yourself?

Because frankly, thier entire back story is secrecy. Secrecy over betrayals. Hiding that fact from all. That no one can know the TRUTH, not even regular Dark Angels. It is left ambiguous and mysterious in the fluff for this exact reason. You don't get to go "no, my THEORY is correct! Your THEORY/(or "meme" apparently, wtf) is WRONG."
No, you have a theory and they have a theory based on the "facts"/fluff. By it's very nature and the entire backbone of the Dark Angels mythos it is always up for debate. Luther whispers of the return of Lion? Yeah, as a fucking Deamon Prince to fuck shit up. Or not. But you aren't the final answer on that Anon.

>>43740356
>*It's not true or untrue

Might make that sentence a bit more clear

>>43740115
Interesting. I'll try to find it. And those are eagles not wolves.

>>43740356
Sounds like a personal problem.

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Heres what I have so far, do I need to add anything besides AA/flyer? This is about 3500 points, which I'll be drawing from for 2500 and 3000 point games.

Kurze
Sevatar

20 man Tac Squad w/bolters
Two 5 man Support Squads w/meltaguns
10 man Support Squad w/Volkite Calivers

Two 10 man Terror Squads w/Flamer, Heavy Chainsword, Chainglaive
15 Night Raptors w/3 Chainglaives and 6 Power Swords

6 Scimitar Jetbikes w/2 multimelta

Contemptor w/Kheres, Fist+Bolter, Havoc Launcher
Contemptor w/Multimelta, Fist +melta
Contemptor w/2 Multimelta

3 Deimos Rhinos for the three Support Squads

Do I need armor, or Grav, or Plasma?

>>43740084
Probably never. The BaC bundles are the new Legion bundles.

>>43740590
What the fuck GW, why do you touch good things and turn them to shit?

>>43740590

Maybe someone doesn't wnat to take MKIV?

>Please restock MKII

>>43737624
Ehh thats debateable. There are theories based on fact and speculation that make the Lion look awfully suspect.

Be happy for the mystery though, without it the Lion is as boring as Vulkan.

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>>43739911
>But AC don't use bolters.

Newsflash faggot they do, the black guys ARE custodes. I assume they wear black and not gold because they may not be full on Custodes or perform other duties.

>>43740627
Please take your hyperbole and faux outrage based on some anons guess, back to the 40k general.

Im glad FW and GW decided to grow HH, but since the BaC box hit, the HH general has gone to shit. You guys can make idiotic comments over there, this used to be a nice place.

>>43740745
So you think the new shop is better?
I think its very unmaneuvrable and I fear for the future of HH.

>Age of Sigmar.

Can't you understand that?

You also have to agree that for Legions without MKIV armour those packs don't make sense.

>>43740693

Custodes have bolters built in to their Polearm weapons. Likely the only time they used actual bolters was when they were participating in conventional battles like the Crusade.

>>43740774
Or maybe artists like having fun and concepts develope.

This is not a "history" that exists, just a huge pile of writing and art.
Some more some less interconnected with each other.

>>43740770
No I prefer the old one as well. But Im happy to see the HH line growing in several ways.

>Age of Sigmar
Not sure what youre getting at here, but Im guessing you are making a connection between AoS and HH? Until that begins to happen, theres no point worrying about it. Not to mention the condition WHFB was in is nothing like HH.

As for the MK IV stuff: Yes, it only works for some Legions.

Reminder that if you bought BaC you are the cancer that is killing 30k.

>>43740837
I just hope they restock on MKII and allow FW to do what they are good at.

After that, I am ok.

I have to admit that I am pretty hyped about the return of specialist games, so not everything is bad with GW.

>>43740912
I didn't buy it.

I just proxied all of my 40k marine stuff. It's all Ultramarines but I switch between legions all the time so it doesn't look to bad. Generally whatever legions are best.

>>43740912
>>43740945
I just proxied my ebay orks. I only play Alpha Legion so I fluff it as they are in disguise. Plus a second hand warboss model is way cheaper than a primarch model. I have an imagination, thank you.

>>43740627
Well it's not like if they brought the bundles back you'd save any money anyway. FW does GW style bundles now where the savings are negligible.

>>43740912
40k General poster spotted, and look two trolling cancerous replies already.

HH general is dead bros, its just another 40k general now. Full of trollposts, arguing, and tards calling each other faggot every other post.

Guess its time to follow the migration. I didnt think it would be this quick and drastic a change though.

>>43741136
True, I just dislike how they push this game.

>>43741265
You are doing the same though, just ignore it.

They also die and come alive again with the presence and absence of big releases.

Accept change, servant of the Corpse God.

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Thinking of doing Raven Guard as my next legion. Never played a game as them though, not even proxy.

Are they good as the operator marines? Do they pull off the stealth stuff well?

I am tired of loud and proud, looking to shake up my meta a bit.

>>43739618
God who are those beautiful space marines!? I want them

>>43741312
Push how?

>>43741806
No ordinary starter packs and otherb undles.

Only the board game.

>>43741640
>Sergeant Heklan's Cataphractii armour
But that's clearly Tartaros

>>43741829
The board game is your starter box. Not to imply it as a bad thing, but are you new to GW?

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>>43739721
Talking about this one?

>>43741904
But it wasn't allways.

I didn't start to buy forgeworld stuff to get the same stuff I do with ordinary GW.

I liked the customisation that pack has not.

but as was said before, FW has no real deals anymore, so I can just buy what i want.

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>>43728193
A list I'm building, what should I make changes too? I know I need like 300 more points and I just can't make up my mind I was thinking about maybe dropping a Heavy slot for some medusa and a seige breaker to go with the heavy squad and unlock phosphex shells, but seeing as no one I know has played a game I only have the internet to come to for advice

>>43742120
Yes.

For a more fluffy build, is it legal in 30k to have two separate CADs (in this case one of Word Bearers another of Imperial Militia and Cults) and then have an allied detachment of Daemons of Chaos because both Word Bearers and Militia and Cults have rules to take them as allies?

>>43742182
Happy to help. I like this pic so much, that I have it as my wallpaper.

>>43741797
Ones on Horus's side are his boys, and the ones on Emps's side are probably Custodes due to the same helmets as seen here >>43740693 or more Sons of Horus.
>>43740356
>>43740659
Didn't his monologue and Fateweaver failing to find a way to turn him to Chaos not settle his loyalty questions?

>>43742120
God damn new GW art is fugly

>>43742230
I don't really like the newer 40k art, but there are some nice pics that I do like though.

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>>43742271

>>43742234
>Didn't his monologue and Fateweaver failing to turn him settle the loyalty question?

Of course not. They just demonstrate how devious a traitor the Lion is. He's fooled everyone by unequivocally rejecting heresy on multiple occassions. Now no-one will suspect him until it's too late.

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>>43742434
Sounds like some double heresy there. It's like you almost want Asmodai to get worked up.

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>>43742468
Dark Angels are khornates

If I attached an HQ unit to an entire squad that has the deep strike rule that lets them teleport themselves in, can the HQ unit also teleport in with them?

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>>43742662
>mfw
And Blood Angels aren't? And it says right there they acknowledge the Emperor as their true leader.

>>43742811
no

>>43742831
So then am I supposed to attach the HQ unit AFTER they enter the field?

>>43742882
if the hq has deepstrike itself then you can deepstrike with another unit

>>43742811
>>43742831

Does the HQ have Deep Strike? IF yes, then you can if not then you cant.

>>43743191
>>43742981
No it doesn't :( Oh well I'll attach my Terminator Chaplain to Tac Squad instead of a Gal Vorbak.

Oh and can you guys help me out with >>43742193 too plz? Can I do it like in 40k where you are allowed two or more CADs and allied detachment?

Anyone have any experience running full campaigns? We have 12 players now with 5 new guys and we were thinking it would be a good way to let them build up and get regular games.

Rough idea is to have it be a system on the onset of the Heresy. We had the idea of every player being neutral with the ability to declare as loyalist or traitor down the track. To prevent one side just having everyone we were thinking of putting a 6 player cap on each faction.

Game types and sizes would be mutually agreed upon by players up the maximum points of whatever one player could bring.

Different territories would have different bonuses and could be potentially upgraded by their owners for other benefits.

>>43728193
This was he emperor's plan all along.

>>43743247
Sounds pretty good to me. One thing that I enjoy for xwing campaigns is to have each player go to a planet generator (we use the one on donjon), and make 5 or 6 planets. Then as you battle, after each battle you determine the outcome and the effect it had on the sort of starmap you guys put together. Super easy freeform stories right there.

Is there a way to use Legion lascannons without having to buy the Legion Support Squad kit as well for the arm? Like could you mount them on pistol arms or something?

>>43743245
IIRC no. I'll double check books, but as far as I know, you are limited to one force org chart.

>>43743378
You could chop the arms up to suit but Itll take some work to look good I think.

>>43743378
FW are making volkites with the hands as the Ba1C marines have the hands moulded on to the bolters.. If they're doing that for volkites then they'll do something similar for heavy weapons. I'd email them and ask if they plan/are currently recasting to add an arm to the kit, another upgrade for BaC.

Does anyone else that play traitor legions or legions who sometime during the heresy changed colors have different colored men in their armies?

My Tac Squads, Ashen Circle, and Storm Eagles are all still grey colored Word Bearers cuz they didn't do the Warp Pilgrimage but are the still badass Sundered Tower Chapter. My Gal Vorbak, Mhara Gal Tainted Dreadnought, Praetor, and Diabolist are doing the more reddish along with grey/black/etc. cuz they are the Gal Vorbak Serrated Sun Chapter. Chaplain is black cuz they are always black. All united with the cool version of the Word Bearers symbol (book on fire with daemon face in fire.)

>>43743511
I hope not, don't want all heavy weapons to be locked to one specific Marks arms.

>>43743545
Yep, doing loyalist Dusk Raiders as my current project.

>>43743511
>FW are making volkites with the hands as the Ba1C marines have the hands moulded on to the bolters..

The fuck is this world coming to? Even FW can't stop kowtowing to the "I can't be bothered to cut up some shit" police. How do these people manage to get the pieces off the sprues?

>>43743556
They could just make kits with the arms and backpacks. Still doesn't fix the issue that you're limited to Mk. 2-4 arms at the moment. If you want to get them for 40k armies and stuff like Mk. 7 suits, you're shit out of luck without conversions.

>>43742193
Strictly speaking no, you only get one Force Organization chart of your choice.

>>43743677
Thank god I have my recaster who stocks all the FW style weapons.

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>>43744006
>tfw it's been 5 days since I sent my order to Z and still no response

>>43744341
Z is the shit tier of recasters.

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>>43744374
>>43744006
Share the love you dirty loyalists

Best loadout for Vets in an EC army?

I definitely want at least one missile launcher. Should I do two ML or one ML and the other a HB or something?

>>43744579
No can do m8. The man has specifically said not to share his contacts. But holy shit can't wait for my next order to show up. Ordered another Deredeo+Aiolos since magnetizing my first one to use the Plasma Carronade would've been more expensive than just buying another set.

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>>43743717
Ahh okay. So I only have an optional allied detachment of Chaos Daemons then. This makes my army look like this now. Termie Praetor attached to 18 tac squad. Diabolist to 19 tac squad. Chaplain has a jetbike making sure he's near Ashen Circle or Gal Vorbak to boost close combat. Bloodthirster cuz that's the daemon making the most appearances during the Heresy. Pink Horrors to live up to the daemonology summoning aspect of Word Bearers. Need to buy a Bloodthirster for this though.


Also, any suggestions how I can do all those skulls on my Praetor's Cataphractii armor?


2500 points

Rite Of War: The Dark Brethren

---HQ---

Legion Praetor - 155 points
-Cataphractii Terminator Armor
-Paragon Blade
-Iron Halo

Legion Chaplain - 155 points
-Legion Jetbike with Heavy Bolter
-Refractor field
-Artificer Armor
-Melta-bombs

Legion Diabolist - 125 points
-Burning Lore


---Troops---

(19) Legion Tactical Squad - 290 points
-Dark Channelling
-Power Fist for Sargent
-Artificer Armor for Sargent

(18) Legion Tactical Squad - 280 points
-Dark Channelling
-Power Fist for Sargent
-Artificer Armor for Sargent


---Fast Attack---

(10) The Ashen Circle - 360 points
-9 Power Axes
-Artificer Armor for Iconoclast
-1 Phosphex Bomb for Iconoclast

Storm Eagle Gunship - 220 points
-Extra Armor

Storm Eagle Gunship - 220 points
-Extra Armor


---Elites---

(10) Gal Vorbak Dark Brethren - 390 points
-2 Power Weapons (Mauls)
-Tainted Weapon for Dark Martyr
-Artificer Armor for Dark Martyr

Mhara Gal Tainted Dreadnought - 305 points


+++Optional 500 Points Chaos Daemons Allied Detachment+++

---HQ---

Bloodthirster Of Unfettered Fury - 300 points
-Greater Reward: Blade Of Blood (replaces Lash Of Khorne)
-Exalted Reward: Grimoire Of True Names


---Troops---

(20) Pink Horrors - 200 points
-Instrument of Chaos
-Icon of Chaos
>>43743593
Oh shit that's a cool recoloring idea, too.

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>>43744669
What's the quality like compared to FW and stuff you've gotten from other recasters?

>>43743593
Who has that picture of the DG with the Aquila carved into his armor?

Lascannon sentinels any good? I feel like I have enough autocannons with 10 autocannon HW teams and 2 autocannon gorgons.

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>>43744989

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>>43745044

>>43745177
Damn, just noticed the Aquila chain around his right forearm too. Pretty evocative.

>>43744989
>>43745111

From my experience, this is how I rank the recasters I've purchased from:

Top Tier: Private Recaster. Always happy with what I receive from him. Uses non-toxic resin similar to FW but just a touch more brittle. Not as large of a selection as Z or CCON but adds new stuff every month. Price is at least 50% of FW if not cheaper (Cerastus knights are $70) USD.


Ok Tier: CCON, stuff is kind of brittle but he packs well and rarely is anything broken on arrival. Vehicles are all excellent, spindly things not so much. Pricewise some stuff is cheaper some is more expensive. Still hell of a lot cheaper than FW.

Piece of Shit Tier: Zhanchui. Ordered an Arvus Lighter and FW Shadowsword from him. Arvus light was a warped piece of turd no amount of heat gunning could save. Gave it to my friend to turn it into terrain. Shadowsword piece were all broken and warped as fuck. Also since it uses the plastic baneblade chassis and is 150 pieces, I'll probably never get around to building it. Only good thing about Z is that he's so inexpensive I don't care about wasting the money to get terrain rubble.

>>43745232
>Top Tier: Private Recaster. Always happy with what I receive from him. Uses non-toxic resin similar to FW but just a touch more brittle. Not as large of a selection as Z or CCON but adds new stuff every month. Price is at least 50% of FW if not cheaper (Cerastus knights are $70) USD.
How do you get in touch with these people?

>>43745049
Well, what's your anti-vehicle?

>>43745291
Well back in the day it was easier, basically google searching. Now I wouldn't have a clue since all the private recasters are telling their clients not to give out their info. I basically just hook my group of friends up and that's it.

>>43745291
Dont know about him but my guy is just some dude in our club who started doing it for himself and then for us. Doesnt want his details out there and usually does it at cost providing we occasionally get legit forgeworld for him to use for recasts.

>>43745300
So far I got 3 vanquishers with hull lascannons and 2 grenadier squads with meltas and bomb sergeant (I know melta's bit of a shit, but it's a thematic reason I'm taking them).

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>>43743593
>>43745177
>>43745208
remove primarch

>>43741640
Bumping this.

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Honestly /tg/, was Roboute Guilliman that bad of a primarch? After reading the Horus Heresy books, does he seem more human then the others?

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>>43745790
remove primarch. Categorically.

>>43745790
When was he considered a bad primarch? Shit talking aside.

I'm by no means an Ultramarines fan but can't doubt he was a great leader.

>>43745790
Definitely one of the better ones. I quite like him, at times it's like he is the only adult in a room full of children.

>>43742234
>Didn't his monologue and Fateweaver failing to find a way to turn him to Chaos not settle his loyalty questions?
But Astelan couldn't have been a worthless fuckwit with delusions of grandeur, anon. He has to be right about these things, he totally can't be rationalizing his betrayal like all of the other Fallen. Lion had to be dragging his boots on the way to Terra, Astelan knows this for certain because he wasn't there and Russ would totally have gone along with that pace.

Also just ignore that Luther's sword is a daemon weapon that corrupts its wielder by playing on their pride and ambition.

The entire idea never made any fucking sense.

>>43745954
He used to be portrayed as somewhat overbearing and convinced that he had facts not opinions.

Now he's just the only one who BL hasn't portrayed poorly.

>>43745965
>>43746024

This. Out of all the strange and almost cartoon villain like Primarchs, he was the only guy with some sense.

Also he was the only Primarch with a mother. Kinda says something about how a mother's love can raise a child.

>>43746065
Didn't Sanguinius have parents?

>>43746085
Supposedly, but it's stated that they might of just taken care of him while the entire villaige raised him. Roboute on the other hand had Kornor as his actual father and Euden acted as his stepmother, even if she wasn't officially his step mother. However, he respected and treated her like any loving son would treat their mother.

>>43746225
I would really like to know more about them and their relationship.

I would like to see how a Primarch would act towards a mother he loves.

What was Roboute's relationship with the Emperor like?

>>43729290
Good stuff. Amazing where a bit of wisdom can take you.

>>43729971
Nah, we weren't being assholes. We were just being insistent, that's all. Exactly how our friend describes his role at his job here >>43731044.

>>43729422
Oh, I should've scrolled down before I made my last post, this could've gone in there. Like I said in the last thread, ordinary Breachers are a functional unit. Not my favourite but they're alright. Stone Gauntlet isn't a bad Rite of War though they aren't better, and the models are the same.

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>>43746434
The little bit I got about Guilliman and Euden was from the Unremembered Empire. As for his relationship with his father, well I have yet to find it. But he's said to have discribed the Emperor as "A great leader, but a horrible father" meaning he could see the Emperor in critical eyes.

Guilliman doesn't show it in front of the troops, but it's implied he deeply cares about her and when he hears that Curze almost got to her, he rushes to her to see if she was hurt.

>>43744006

Thank god I'm not poor.

>>43745951
Remove whoever is in charge of the helmets in these images, while we're at it. The guy on the right's eyes are three inches lower than the left. It makes him look short and sunken.

>>43730630
>Forgives
What? Where? When? Who? How?

>>43746699
Me neither. But at least I get more for what I spend my money on.

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>>43746880
Maybe somewhere, Magnus ultimately regrets doing what he did and forgives Russ and the Emperor?

Guessing since he got smacked in the eye the last time he tried to skin the space wolves, he's locked himself in his room to meditate on his failures.

Poor guy. He was one of the less douchebag primarchs,

>>43746065
>he was the only guy with some sense
Now now, Sanguinius, the Khan and Vulkan were pretty sensible

>>43745965
Oh gods, I'm getting tired of how child-like most of them are. It just makes you wonder how they rose to power on their respective homeworlds without losing it all after throwing a stupid tantrum.

>>43746908

Yeah, you're poor.

>>43740107
Seeking.

>>43745177
>>43745534
My battle bothers. Remove traitors.
>>43745951
Remove Angron.

is imperial militia air cavalry any good?

>>43746880
>>43746969
Ahirman series.

>>43747393

Even in Battle of the Fang which takes place not that long after the heresy Magnus shows that he has forgiven the Space Wolves even as he kills them.

>>43747477
>he has forgiven the Space Wolves even as he kills them.

>I have forgiven you brother, but I still have to ruin your legion and rip your sons apart.

>>43747477
>>43747501
Probably a vengeful shard of Magnus. He forgives them, but he's still going to wreck them.

>>43747501
Its like Romance of the Three Kingdoms!

minus the sex

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Any Horus Heresy book have a lot fo the Emperor in it? I really want to grasp his... it's... character.

>>43747865
I thought the short story, "The Last Church" was pretty insightful in regards to the Emperor.

>>43747198

Honestly I get the feeling that the Primarchs are supposed to be the equivalent to the Greek gods. Not perfect beings, just humans with superpowers.

>>43747865
>>43748212
Trust me, it's skub.

>>43747865
The Last Church hes a central character

but some people says it makes him look like an edgy feodra tipping faggot, while the priest actually seems like a decent fellow

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What the FUCK is this retardation? I saw this on FW and got all excited until I converted the pounds to USD and ended up with it costing $341... what the fuck is the point of this bundle? Being overpriced bullshit? The helmets, pauldrons, and chest pieces suddenly cost more than thirty marines, five terminators, a dreadnought, and two HQ because "muh resin"? I can buy shit from a third party seller like Puppets of War for way cheaper, and it'll probably turn out way fucking better.

FW seriously needs to get their prices sorted, because now more than ever they just look absolutely retarded. Even if chinese recasts look worse, they at least don't give you an aneurysm from retarded prices.

Just... fuck. This really puts into perspective how the meme of "FW are the good guys" is complete horseshit.

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>>43749222
meanwhile old fans of 30k bitch about how the HH plastics are scaled terribly and have shitty poses

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>>43744989
i bought the FW webstore exclusive Centurion for $12 and the MK III Techmarine for $10 from this seller.

http://www.ebay.com/usr/0.35407

They were really really good casts. I mean like not even a difference from Forge World. The small box it came in was carefully wrapped. I was super impressed with it all since I was looking at paying $70 for the centurion alone.

Can I just say how bad the mould lines are on the HH Calth box's Terminator storm bolters. Damn they are a pain.

>>43749222
FW are good guys because they write good fluff, test their rules and put out a quality product. Nobody has ever said "I like FW because they're inexpensive"

Except maybe Australians.

>>43728678
Why do none of these look like theyre actually assaulting?

>>43749222
the only reason that "FW are the good guys" exists is because Forgeworld's quality is exponentially better than GW, not because of their prices. If your only problem with Games Workshop is the pricing than you'll probably not like fw.

>>43749269
Hey with the exchange rate the way it is for us, a Deimos Rhino costs $80 before shipping, double the price of a regular one from my LGS.

I do love Imperial Militia and Cults. I know this game is kinda about the space marines but can we talk about how awesome this army list is? Seriously, you can run massive hosts of rending zealot troops (cult horde+tainted flesh) or almost entirely super heavy vehicles using the normal age of darkness detachment. Seriously, look:

>>Imperial Militia and Cults Age of Darkness Detachment
>HQ
(220) Force Commander, Carapace Armor, Iron Halo, Charnel Cabre, Planetary Commander-Warlord
Provenances of War: Survivors of the Dark Age, Abhuman Helots
>Troops
(485) 20 Grenadiers, Laslocks, Advanced Weapons, 2 Plasma Guns
Dedicated Transport: Gorgon Heavy Transport, Twin linked Lascannons, Sponson Lascannons
>(485) 20 Grenadiers, Laslocks, Advanced Weapons, 2 Plasma Guns
Dedicated Transport: Gorgon Heavy Transport, Twin linked Lascannons, Sponson Lascannons
>Heavy Support:
(310) Malcador: Hull Demolisher Cannon, Siege Armor, Flare Shield, Armored Ceramite
(310) Malcador: Hull Demolisher Cannon, Siege Armor, Flare Shield, Armored Ceramite
>Lord of War
(600) Stormhammer, Armored Ceramite, Targeters

>>43749789
FW's stuff is nice, but it is LUDICROUSLY overpriced for what in the end is simply a toy soldier. Buying tactical squads for $40 is bad enough, buying them for a hundred or more is just absurd. I draw my line when it comes to prices if an infantry squad is costing me a solid hundred or more.

What's worse though is that those upgrades are barely worth it at all (I can buy similar looking helms at Puppets of War stupidly cheap in comparison) considering they cost more than the starter army itself. I mean for that price, I could buy TWO boxes and have sixty space marines opposed to thirty guys in slightly pimped gear. Call me utilitarian, but those prices are simply batshit.

>>43750047

>FW's stuff is nice, but it is LUDICROUSLY overpriced for what in the end is simply a toy soldier.

Welcome to niche prices

>>43750047
I'm sorry you can't afford stuff in your hobby.

>>43750142
While I fear what may happen when GW goes belly up (probably in the far future), I almost can't help but wish it would happen out of spite. Although it probably end up in shitty Hasbro pre-painted models sold like the old Star Wars Miniatures.

There is no god.

>>43750047
too bad the contemptor is a waste of plastic

>>43750303
How is it a waste of plastic? I don't care if it's the best thing ever, only that it's a legal model that doesn't look like third edition Abaddon of the Pinned Arms. Its purpose isn't to be pretty, it's too be functional and easy to buy in bulk.

It doesn't help either that rules-wise dreadnoughts are a bit of a waste of points in both games so blowing a shitload of money on a fancy one with legion upgrades is just going to get blown away in the first exchange of fire by an Imperial Knight.

>Oh look a pretty mod-

>*POOF*

Which Legion would you guys say has the strongest anti-authoritarian bent?

>>43750373
>its purpose isn't to be pretty

Then get the fuck out of this hobby. Go play something with paper chits.

>>43750647
World Eaters, to a fault.

>>43750727
If 40k is supposed to pretty, then why is CSM still using third edition models, the Dark Eldar range still in need of more updates, Sisters of Battle all looking like ass, and the aborted child known as the Centurion exist? Not to mention that the plastic Contemptor doesn't look that much like ass- it just can't be posed without cutting into it like the old Tau Battlesuits.

Especially when you compare the prices, what you get for what you pay for ain't half bad at all compared to FW's bullshit.

>>43750899
Oh, and expanding on this for 30k as well, there's a lot of the Mechanicus designs which seemed to have copied the worst parts of the old 2nd/3rd edition art, and the Solar chaps who have some fairly ugly looking helmets that make them look like they walked out of a Steampunk Doctor Who episode.

>>43750899

If 40k isn't supposed to be pretty why does it have miniatures at all? Go play some shitty indie video games.

>>43750899

>If 40k is supposed to pretty, then why is CSM still using third edition models, the Dark Eldar range still in need of more updates, Sisters of Battle all looking like ass

Because GW has finite resources

>and the aborted child known as the Centurion exist?

Subjective

>>43750921

I like certain Mechanicum models and the SA because they have an early sci-fi look to them, it's kind of refreshing in a way.

In a way it's not surprising that certain things in both HH and 40k are using designs from the past, there has been an undercurrent of that in recent years.

>>43750899
Holy shit, why the fuck do you even use models at all then, just play with bases and cardboard printouts if that's all you see them as. Holy shit your fucking dense.

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So, I got the BoC box, and I love it so far.
But the problem is, I can't decide on what legion to go with.

So far it's a tie between the Word Bearers, Iron Warriors and Death Guard. All three have points of interest to me, both in fluff and in modeling opportunities. What do you guys think?

>>43751264
> Word Bearers, Iron Warriors and Death Guard
Let's hear the reasons you're interested in each.

I'm going with Imperial Fists for my BaC boxes because 1) They're a loyalist faction in 40k still 2) They can ally with my Death Korps in 40k and be siege-bros together 3) In 30k there is a good paint scheme that just has yellow on the shoulder pads instead of every-fucking-where.

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What is your favorite legion?

>>43751264
Read all the fluff from the HH books not just the red Istvaan book. Maybe read some BL books too if you are into that. Consider paint schemes, consider play style, consider lore. Sleep on it. Make some lists and sleep on it some more. Take your time before you commit since you will most likely be stuck with them for a while as most 30k armies are large and grow slowly due to high prices.

>>43751308
Iron Warriors!!

>>43751296
Unification Wars era? Looks pretty cool.

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>>43751296
alright:

>Iron warriors
Having read Angel exterminatus when it got released, I got more interested in them. I bought the Siege of Castellax book when that was released as well. I find myself liking their "chaos is there, but who really gives a shit, lets kill some iron fists". As their modeling goes, they have those really neat mechanicum-implants and whatnot. Only thing I really dislike is that they have a purely metal color scheme, and I tend to not like those too much, since I can't get them to look as spiffy as the others.

>Death Guard
Their pre-heresy selves were pretty rad, with viral warfare, reaper-esque looks and a good, solid color-scheme. They later favor Nurgle, which is my shared first-place favorite Chaos God. I have modeled a few Nurgle minis before, conversion-wise, and it tends to be a lot of fun. Their fluff is sadly much less than the others, as no-one really have gotten around to writing them yet.
Did I also mention dat color-scheme?

>Word bearers
They are the crazed zealots in red armor that has always piqued my interest of sorts. Their fluff is partly tragic, and partly stupid, but it works in the full end. Their conversion opportunities are very large, and red-silver is not only a good looking color scheme, its one that gratefully easy to paint. Plus, they have plenty of stuff from FW, unlike the other two - iron warriors in particular!

it's harder to decide than I thought it would be.

>>43750647
Night Lords or Death Guard. Nighthaunter for obvious reasons. Moritartion has it strong after he had to deal with his planets alien overlords. Those who had grown fat and lazy on thrones..

>>43751436
The problem I have with Night Lords as anti-authoritarian is yeah they went renegade, but before that their whole deal was delivering judgement against those who rebelled from Nighthaunter's or the Emperor's authority. But yeah they did go renegade later so I guess so.

>>43750647
When you really think about it there's only one possible answer.

Fucking.

Word Bearers.

Let the Galaxy Burn. Literally.

>>43751481
Wasn't obeying authority literally coded into the geneseed of the Word Bearers? When the Emperor told them to fuck off and stop worshiping him they basically turned to Chaos because they had to have someone to obey.

>>43743245
Doesn't Terminator Armour in itself grant deepstrike? I'd look it up in the rulebook if I was you.

>>43751511
I'm pretty sure you need to buy a Teleportation Transponder for extra to get Deepstrike?

>>43751511
You must be new to 30k. Maybe in 40k Terminator armor automatically gives deepstrike. But In 30k, you either have to buy it as an upgrade or the unit has to specifically have it in their rules.

>>43751511
Only certain Legions have the option to buy the teleporter outside of the Orbital Assault RoW.

>>43751519
>>43751525
>>43751543
I am indeed new to 30K, and this is indeed new information. My apologies for the confusion, and thank you for the information.

>>43751500
Except in the end all the 'marchs become lapdogs or deaded except Lorgar.

And instead of applying to one god he goes undivided and up and goes off writes his own liber chaotica completely independently.

>>43731147
I am pretty sure then next one was supposed to be Alpharius and if it is the case then i am so hyped cause he look awesome finally a primarch who actually wears a helmet !

>>43740356
It is funny that their whole thing is secrecy and then the Alpha Legion comes in and does secrecy so much better it makes a mockery of the Dark Angels

>>43742120
Custodes at background having a party?

>>43728242
the answer is never not going to be combi-plasma and axes anon, no matter the legion or method of insertion.

>>43741640
>>43745716
They ARE the operator marines on the table. All shooting, manuevering, and the "right tools for the job" kind of playstyle. Their Rite of War is the ultimate in SURPRISE MOTHERFUCKER tactics. Everything they have from wargear to units to buffs is optimized for one thing and one thing only:

Maximum enemy casualties and minimizing your own.

Seriously though; they are great at straight killing other marines.

Theres no sneaking in tabletop, but what RG can do is "set-up" a great ambush. Their RoW gives you a reroll to go first, Preferred Enemy ICs, and drop pods for most units. Combine with army wide infiltrate and you can have the right units in the best place before the game starts. I and other RG players find that we win during deployment. Drop pods rain down Seekers or Tac supports with plasma, Kaedes Nex erases untis, Mor Deythan with rending combi flamers in scouting/infiltrating rhinos erase more units, Maun is pure buffgasms with his reroll reserves for flyers and pods as well as his 18" no-scatter from DS bubble.

The Decapitation Strike style is very much the scissor to the marching band metas paper

>>43749269
When I see normal photos of these models, I always find them way sexier than on the Forgeworld or Games Workshop websites. Realistic in-the-flesh lighting brings all the appeal out to fore.

>>43732305
R.I.P in pepperoni

Can't find anything about this, but did Legion librarians wear any distinct gear or color schemes like the blue armor found in 40k?

>>43754008
It is probably just a Codex thing, some legions might have had different colours for libbys, others maybe not.

>>43749715
Practicality. Actual fightan-poses would make it very difficult to place the models in base contact with each other and move them around during a game. Display alone is not the only concern when making a model.

>>43750047
>a toy soldier
Even Forgeworld models are explicitly designed as display pieces first, game pieces second. The quality is immense. If you like the models, a high price means nothing - the law of luxuries. It's just that Games Workshop, while charging less, makes models of a lower and MUCH more variable quality.

>>43749858
Militia and Cults truly is the best. If I had guard models this is the list I would field:

Force Commander 50
- Warrior Elite 50
- Alchem Jackers 35
- Power Fist 15
- Digital Lasers 5
- Cyber-familiar 15
- Iron Halo 25
- Planetary Overlord 20
215pts

Platoon Command Cadre 30
- 4 Bodyguards 20
- Melta Bombs 5
- Power Fist 15
- Heavy Stubbers 35
- Carapace Armour 10
115pts


Grenadier Squad 65
- 8 Grenadiers 40
- Melta Bombs 5
- Power Sword 5
- Vexilla 10
- Boltguns 30
- 2 Gr.L. Grenadiers 20
- Gas Grenades 10
185pts

Grenadier Squad 65
- 8 Grenadiers 40
- Melta Bombs 5
- Power Maul 5
- Vexilla 10
- Lascarbines 15
- 2 Plasma Guns 30
170pts

Fire Support Squad 75
- 5 Fire Teams 75
- Missile Launchers 100
- Flak Missiles 50
300pts

Reconnaisance Squad 50
- Cameoline 20
- Sniper Rifles 25
- Infravisors 10
- Demolition Charge 5
110pts


Medicae Detachment 40


Sentinel Scout Squadron 90
- 3 Autocannons 15
105pts

Sentinel Scout Squadron 90
- 3 Missile Launchers 15
105pts


Leman Russ Battle Tank 140
- Lascannon 10
- Pintle Heavy Stubber 5
155pts

Leman Russ Battle Tank 140
- Lascannon 10
- Pintle Heavy Stubber 5
155pts

3 Artillery Carriages 225
- 3 Medusa Siege Guns 75
- 3 Breacher Shells 15
- 10 Militia Crew 30
345pts


2000pts

(I am aware the Recon squad is probably shit, but where is an M&C army without a bit of pointless flavour?)

>>43750647
Hmmmm. Emperor's Children are a legion of very open-minded individualists but they are also quite elitist. Space Wolves value every member of their fold but ruthlessly bully weakness. Blood Angels have the recovery and redemption of mutated rad-wasters into beautiful and powerful marines as central to their concept and character, as well as a lot of stuff about noble sacrifices by those with power - they're a good candidate. World Eaters just fight and fight and fight and fight - the strongest deserve to win but there's no "leadership" so to speak. Mortarion hated his father and overthrew all the monstrous lords of Barbarus, but perhaps he became like them in the end. His Legion just gets on with the job, without the micro-management and cruelty inherent in the Iron Warrior's organisation. The Raven Guard are all about overthrowing slavers and executing enemy leaders.

The strongest candidates in my views are
Blood Angels
World Eaters
Raven Guard

with the Death Guard not far behind. EC and SW are neutral, then most Legions are slighlty authoritarian. Dark Angels, Iron Hands, Ultramarines and Sons of Horus are very authoritarian.

>>43749858
Just wish they'd get SA style tercios. Unless I go heavy on tanks or Provenances, I'm not gonna be able to make very big armies (point wise). Would be fun to get special weapons squad style things. 2 special weapons on grenadiers is not much.

What sort of base does the Heavy Flamer HW team go on? The one the Krieg grenadiers uses isn't very big looking, though I can't make out the shape of it. Fielding them on 60mm bases doesn't seem like they'd be very good.

>>43754292
I don't think the Blood Angels hace ever really had a problem with authority though, have they? I mean, their loyalty to the emperor and mostly rigid adherence to the Codex can attest to that. If anything, I'd move White Scars up the list.

>>43755100
It depends on how you look at the term "anti-authoritarian". I was using it as "doesn't value dominance or hierarchy within one group or over another", which is why I put Blood Angels up top. Essentially the Blood Angels (by my reasoning) are not that fussed about authority.

The sort of people who have big problems with AN authority, are sometimes the former - like the Raven Guard - but are at other times very authoritarian people who want to see it done right. The real life Mongolians were a conquering empire par none, who could be said to have a problem with authority - specifically the authorities which they sought to replace. Whether the White Scars totally adhere to this I don't know, I'm not a Scars expert.

I'd put them in the same spot as EC and SW on the list; against some types or natures of authority, for others.

>>43754920
We told you in the last thread, you can't have your cake and eat it immediately. Suck it up that in a marine-centric environment Forgeworld has released two IG-variants that don't completely cover everything about the IG.

>What sort of base does the Heavy Flamer HW team go on?
You're making the same mistake you made last time. Use whatever base looks good for you and your army. Such is the purpose of Militia and Cults.

>>43740356
>It's not true or not true.
>THAT IS THE ENTIRE POINT.

It's not true though.
The fluff clearly says that the Lion was loyal to the Emperor. The only fluff that says otherwise was a story told by a Fallen Angel.

>>43742120
Loss of dignity for Sangunius.

>>43748354
Angron is Ares with angst.

>>43750647
It's gotta be Word Bearers. No other Legion/Chapter has pulled the level of deception and trolling that they have. Alpha Legion's trolling could only mess with Roboute from Ultramarines. Night Lords could only kill a few Ultramarines including a Captain. Word Bearers' approach at deceitful anti-authoritarianism led them to kill half the Ultramarines legion. That too being highly outnumbered. The only time Chaos did more damage was during Isstvan V, and that required every traitor legion except Thousand Sons who hadn't turned yet, and would've not been possible if not for Erebus master planning Horus' turn. Word Bearers are the most clever and evil example of anti-authoritarianism in the 40kverse. Post-Monarchia Word Bearers' anti-authoritarianism bent was so strong that it basically is the cause of everything important in the 40kverse that isn't attached to The Age Of Strife, Eldar/Necrons, and Tyranid Hive Fleets.

Do you think that we'll eventually have 30k's equivalent of Inquisition/Grey Knights? We have 30k equivalents to almost every other Imperium army, and chances are we'll soon have Adeptus Custodes/Sisters of Silence, too in Retaliation: Prospero. Which leaves Grey Knights, Inquisition, Deathwatch, and Sisters of Battle. I would think that at least an Inquisition faction should be a thing that covers those bases. Have Malcador, Nathaniel Garro, and Garviel Loken be the HQs/Leaders.

>>43755783
Inquisition doesn't exist.
Maybe some Knight Errant rules, but I hope not.

>>43755817
Knight Errant that's what I meant. But why not? Not a fan of Grey Knights?

>>43754292
Emperor's Children are very pro-authority. Check out page 108 in HH1.

>>43755933
>But why not?

They're small units of guys and don't require their own rules.
If a whole force of them is an absolute must just use the generic legion rules.

>>43756026
Give them rules akin to the Inquisition in 40k then. It's not a while force, and is meant to be allied with other Imperium armies.

>>43756026
Garro's rules as a Knight Errant were already leaked. He has a mandatory side objective that must be completed or else that player can only, at best, tie.

We know Knights Errant will be in book 6, but we also know from various short stories that the Knights Errant grew to far larger than just Garro and his band of five guys we see in Vengeful Spirit, possibly even as large as a modern chapter.

>>43751308

Alpha Legion or Ultramarines

>>43751264

To be as lore accurate as possible I'd go with Death Guard. Both WB and IW have very distinct appearances in general that are not replicated on the plastic miniatures.

I'd go with plain basic legions. Personally with Alpha Legion or Ultramarines or Blood Angels or Death Guard or Imperial Fists

>>43755490
What last thread? I haven't been to 30k threads in weeks.

>Such is the purpose of Militia and Cults.

So I can just make HW team on a 25mm base? Seems like someone could exploit that.

>>43755712
The Word Bearers are all about hierarchy by devotion and orthodoxy to the sacred word. They decieved the Emperor because he was their enemy, not just because he was an authority. The Word Bearers as traitors follow the ethos and code of the Dark Gods more closely than any other.

>>43756003
You raise a good point. The fluff here does contradict some of the notions I feel are expressed in Betrayal and elsewhere, but where would Warhammer be without self-contradiction?

>>43756491
The last thread had a guy complaining about the fact that M&C didn't have official models and couldn't feature platoons, or basically that the army wasn't just Imperial Guard. He was throwing his toys out the pram all over the joint whenever anyone told him that's the point of the army. He never accepted anything in the thread, and it's common for people blown out in one to resurge in the next like nothing happened.

>So I can just make HW team on a 25mm base?
I'm not familiar with the sizes of Imperial Guard HW team bases. Honestly however if the model isn't too small for it then I'm not seeing any reason why you couldn't. Models and units get rebased or multiple base types all the time. I had a Chaos Lord back in the days of 3.5 edition who had the same base as a Tyranid Warrior, whatever that size is, because he was running with two big swords and was on a rocky outrcop. No-one minded.

What do I need to buy to make my 2000 pts 40k ultramarine army work in 30k?

>>43741312
I absolutely hate GW's recent marketing. I'll spare everyone the detailed list but suffice to say, there was naught wrong with Forgeworld's advertising of the Heresy. Games Workshop's done stupid or greedy things before but its imagery has never felt outright retarded.

>>43756822
Almost everything that isn't a Rhino, Land Raider or basic Land Speeder.

Legiones Astartes is a different army to Adeptus Astartes.

>>43756874
Can I run my sternguard in pods in 30k?

>>43756905
There are no Sternguard as such. Veterans and Seeker do some of the same things, but it's not a 1:1 conversion

>>43756948
>Veterans and Seeker do some of the same things, but it's not a 1:1 conversion
Don't know what those are but I can always run them counts-as

>>43756997
Just run 40k rules.
They're fully compatible.

>>43756710
Ok.

>>43756710
>didn't have official models and couldn't feature platoons, or basically that the army wasn't just Imperial Guard

No, that's how you spun it to have an argument. I complained that Militia didn't have platoons like SA has (so it's not a new thing in 30k), that FW didn't have UPGRADES like laslocks and lasrifles, etc. Only model I asked for was the quad mortar rapier, since the SA one has the operator moulded into the thing. But even then it was just "use the heavy quad mortar" which is a totally different unit. You faggots can't live without a dreadnought variant or shoulder pads for your waifu legion, but everyone else can just fuck off and go build your units. That easy compared to putting some shit on your model.

>I'm not familiar with the sizes of Imperial Guard HW team bases.

So in other words you don't even know, but had to get a word in regardless?

How would people rate each legion with complete rules in terms of being fun to play and play against?

>>43757214
>>43756710
Don't shit up this thread too, please.

>>43757214
Oh Jesus it's you again...

Would it be a worth it to get a second BaC for starting a sons of horus legion?

>>43757527
Depends what your list is.

>>43757527
Sure, why not?

>>43757340
I agree. Though thread's autosaging, so it's pretty done.

>>43757516
Surprise!

So, how do you make the best use of the Iron Tenth guys? Just a newbie curious here.

>>43757527
Its a good start for any legion really.
20 dudes with the chaplain and bolters with chainswords, with a volkite special weapons squad

>>43756588
That's true, but I am specifically talking about what they did by acting authoritarian while not being it at all.

>>43756822
Invictarus Suzerains. Spartan Assault tank. Maybe Roboute Guilliman if you plan to make it into 2500 points.

>>43756874
You saying Legions don't use rhinos, land raiders or non-javelin speeders?

Garro's model was shown in this week's WD, so it'll probably be released in the coming weeks.

Anyone happen to know why exactly a load of the prices for the character series have been increased by three pounds?

Friend just bought a few Invictarus Suzerains and Roboute Guilliman. Thought we could take his new models, my Spartans, and some of my BaC leftovers and make an Ultramarines army. How would this work? Invictarii/Forge Lord/Guilliman in one Spartan, Praetor/Tac Squad in another.

2500 points

Onslaught FOC (1 HQ, 1 Troop, 1 Heavy Support compulsory)

---HQ---

Legion Praetor - 210 points
-Gladius Invictus
-Archaeotech Pistol
-Iron Halo
-Mantle of Ultramar
-Melta-Bombs


Legion Centurion - 175 points
-Forge Lord
-Cataphractii Terminator Armor with combi-bolter and power weapon
-Cyber Familiar
-Rad Grenades


---Troops---

(20) Legion Tactical Squad - 305 points
-Addtional CCWs
-Artificer Armor for Sargent
-Melta-bombs for Sargent


---Elites---

(10) Invictarus Suzerain Squad - 350 points

(10) Invictarus Suzerain Squad - 350 points


---Heavy Support---

Spartan Assault Tank - 355 points
-Laser Destroyers
-Flare Shield
-Armored Ceramite
-Dozer Blade
-Auxiliary Drive

Spartan Assault Tank - 355 points
-Laser Destroyers
-Flare Shield
-Armored Ceramite
-Dozer Blade
-Auxiliary Drive

---Lords of War---

Roboute Guilliman - 400 points

>>43758561
Not just them, everything went up by a small % in a recent price increase.

>>43758563
Sparten can only hold one unit

>>43758561
GW makes FW do annual price increases now.

>>43758773
Not that Anon, but Forge Lord and Primarchs are ICs, they just attach to the Invictarii. They can all go in one Spartan if they wanted.

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>>43751308

There's something beautifully tragic with World Eaters.

>>43758773
What >>43758801 said. One unit has no vehicle and that's either an Invictarus or tac squad depending on situation.