The still waiting on Mage edition. Last thread we were tal

Say what you will about Beast, but it's actually got some great art.

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571KB, 894x576px

>>43587209
I like that there is a beast Mark Strong

>>43587282
Isn't that from the section on Heroes?

Hi /wodg/, I have recently finished running my first Story in post-GMC Hunter, and I'm left with some doubts about conditions. Basically, what happens to unresolved Conditions? The players are new and while I've been reminding them about Resolving, over the course of three sessions not everything was - and I made liberal use of the sidenote that suggests to Resolve every time it's appropriate.
I'm going to assume that in the downtime between this story and the next unsolved conditions "fade away" without giving beats, but the section in the GMC is not super-clear.

>>43587310
Could certainly be

>>43587209
No doubt about that. The horrors look creepy as hell.

>11/11/15(Wed)00:48:48
>11/11/15(Wed)02:37:42
Wow, I dropped the ball tonight.

>>43587334
They generally go away without resolving, yes.

The way I personally run it, is I give the player the choice of whether they want to carry the Condition into the next story (assuming it is a Condition for which it would make sense).

How would one build the monster from It Follows?
Super TL;DR: It's a creature that gets a "tag" on someone and (slowly) zeroes in on them over time.

The future victim can pass their role onto someone else through intimate contact, meaning that there is a constant incentive for victims to victimize others in order to save their own skin.

At the same time, the person passing the curse forward only defers their own death for as long as the new target is alive, meaning there is also incentive to teach the new victim the rules.

Is this something that could work in Hunter?
Yes, this is as much a pyramid as it sounds.

>>43588231
Mostly, that's just Plot, but you could run the tag as a Condition that needs resolved. That way it gives an experience beat. I'd also call for some kind of Integrity roll for doing that knowingly to someone else.

>>43579234
No they do not. Thdy create a wolf spirit that wants to kill it parents and all other werewolves (more so than most spirits) What makes this spirit so different? It's immune to Gifts as well as a few other perks thrown in.

>>43589395
Only in 1e.
In 2e they're just more likely to be wolf-blooded.

>>43586930
>Last thread we were talking about Geist, so let's do that. How would you adjust their powers to make them fit their setting?

Every thread is the same Geist circle jerk. Hey, post the homebrew rules again, everyone wants to see it!

>>43588231

Its the same thing as the Ring monster except sex instead of a video tape.

>>43589395

They got rid of that in 2e.

>>43589680
>Every thread is the same Geist circle jerk.
ikr, I'm prolly one of the people who wants to talk something that ISN'T Geist, like Promethean.

>>43589680
The people were mostly talking about how Geist sucks. The guy who creates the threads doesn't know anything about any game but Geist so he brings it up all the time. And since he has no life he's always here to bring it up.

>>43589693
Indeed, we took the Ghost Child concept out back and shot it. I am still firmly convinced this was for the best, except now I have to answer queries on the forums about werewolves in Gauru form having sex with each other so it's not all good.

And no, werewolf pairings don't necessarily produce Wolf-Blooded. The Ivory Claws have the best handle on how Uratha bloodlines work and the like and even they can't just mass-produce Wolf-Blooded through breeding.

>>43589817
Please have the Ivory Claws running sophisticated bleeding edge genetics labs where the nerd werewolves try to reverse-engineer Father Wolf but constantly fail (maybe) but still manage to get funding from other families because they can pretty much guarantee certain genetic wins for their patrons families like Embodiment of the of the Firstborn.

>hm, when I paid you for my child to resemble the firstborn I thought it was clear I meant silver wolf
>what do you mean? of course he resembles silver wolf!
>he's got red hair, a birthmark in the shape of a cross across his entire face and foams at the mouth while speaking in tongues
>well, silver wolf was very close with rabid wolf, practically twins!

>>43589680
god forbid people talk about WoD in /wodg/

next you're going to complain people talk about mage too much. Try having the conversation you're looking for.

>>43589817
lmao at being surprised about weird sex shit questions in any WoD gameline.

>>43589911
>god forbid people talk about WoD in /wodg/
Geist is the least played, least liked game, and because two posters like it they turn any conversation about any other game into something about Geist.

>>43589937
again, try talking about the things you want to talk about. I know this thread hurtles at a breakneck speed but hopefully you can keep up with 'two' posters.

>>43589868
This made me laugh.

Also A game of Werewolf based on Thomas the Tank Engine when?

>>43589911

It's impossible to talk too much about Mage here at the Church of the Glorious DaveB, err..., 4chan.

>>43589969
I'm going to end up ad-libbing one soon the nth time my daughter asks me to read a Thomas the Tank Engine story for bedtime.

"It was misty on the Island of Sodor, and the howls echoed across the hills..."

>>43589817

I liked the whole "don't fuck your work mates" bit though, it kept furry shit to a minimum. Though I'd have it only apply to consensual sex - you're not punished for something you didn't choose.

>>43589868

haha this is brilliant.

>>43589937

> Geist is the least played
> not Promethean

>>43589993
Nice one.

I like the idea of Steam Train Spirits looking like the Engines, is funny to me.

I'm gonna start playing a demon campaign tonight. Gotta say, I love the lore and setting from what I've read, and now I'm super hype for it.
Anyone here played it, and is it good?
Share demon stories if you have any!

>>43589868
So this tempts me to write up just what an Ivory Claw genetic research facility would be like.

But I really should be doing, you know, actual day job stuff.

>>43590069
Nah, give us awesome free stuff We deserve your effort more than your employer

>>43586930

Afternoon, Anons! What's occurring?

>>43589958
>>43589970

Uh...

Eh, still less creepy than the end of last thread.

>>43590078
I *am* my employer, I run my own business! :P

>>43590095
So give yourself the day off, problem solved

>>43590091
Hey Dave.

I'm procrastinating. You?

>>43590091

werewolf genetics and bitching about geist.

>>43589729
Threads aren't all made by the same guy.
I made a lot of them the past month, notably ones that have the op image title/artist name in the filename(usually Michael MacRae), but someone else has been picking up the slack the past couple weeks.

>>43590091

I missed the last thread, and was only kidding about your worship here on /wodg/. Besides, it could be a lot worse, we could treat you like Matt after the release of the first draft of Beast. I'm surprised he didn't need to change his name and go live in the woods for his own safety.

How about some non-creepy Mage spoilers to discuss?

>>43590091
>>43590272

You may find the /tg/ adulation of some here more than a little creepy, but it certainly does not go unnoticed. AmyV even created an amusing Mystery Cult Merit in your honor.


>AmyV !WKAbB2Dgjg Fri 22 May 2015 23:12:11

Adherents of DaveB
Among the few Onyx Path freelancers that subject themselves to /wodg/ on a regular basis, none are more beloved than Dave Brookshaw. His word trumps all in these threads, and a single post from him can turn the tide of a conversation and leave participants recanting, should they be unfortunate enough to have disagreed with Dave. Any that hold their beliefs even after the target of this cult's worship can look forward to being shitposted into oblivion until they recant.

Cultists: Anon, tripfag, nMage fan, newbie freelancer, aspiring writer, fa/tg/uy just passing by

Initiation benefits.

• All initiates are familiar with the rules and themes of Mage: The Awakening. They gain a M:tAw specialty in Academics.

•• Further-initiated Adherents have memorized the entire David Brookshaw literary canon. They gain the Eidectic Memory merit, but only for books either developed or written by Brookshaw.

••• DaveB likes Komodo dragons, right? Somehow, the cult's dedication to this guy grants the 8 again benefit to Animal Ken rolls involving Komodo Dragons

•••• Such close study of the game's developer unlocks the secrets of Mage: The Awakening in their entirety. A character with Adherents of DaveB •••• can talk about or play nMage without sounding like a twat. That is its own reward.

••••• Oh my god, you're actually friends with DaveB! When you do something on social media, roll presence + computer. On a success, he'll like or retweet the post. On an exceptional success, he'll actually reply to you! Now don't freak out.

>>43590091
Where exactly is the border between the Forces and Matter Arcana?

>>43590272
>I'm surprised he didn't need to change his name and go live in the woods for his own safety.
And do what; become a full-time, off-the-grid, spoon whittler?

>>43590313
I think that is pretty straightforward. Are you affecting the material itself or the force working on the material?

Do you increase the voltage by simply supercharging it or are you reducing the resistance of the material?

I always found the line between Life and Matter harder to draw.

>>43590091
I asked this in a past thread, but unfortunately got no answer. I was curious about what your Thyrsus would be like if you ever got to play Mage yourself.

>>43590313
>>43590376

Another question, at what point of decay and dissolution does a dead body come under the purview of Matter, rather than Death, if at all.

>>43590420
Why are you asking me?

>>43589729
Last thread wasn't even a Geist thread, it was "post apocalypse vampires". And I didn't make this thread, which is clearly a Mage thread.

>>43589817
>I have to answer queries on the forums about werewolves in Gauru form having sex with each other so it's not all good.
... why would that matter?
I mean, first off, don't they not have friendly bits? But also why would it matter? I mean, if you can have sex in one form you can have it in any form.

>>43590000
>I liked the whole "don't fuck your work mates" bit though
Why, though? It's a needless addition to the game that shuts down PC-PC romance (Which whether you like it or not is a thing that happens in many games and many people are fond of) and even PC-NPC romance.

Werewolf shall not mate with werewolf adds nothing of substance to the game. Hell, it barely added anything to Apocalypse.

>>43590038
Descent or Fallen?

If I ever get a shot to be ST on DtF I have a loose idea for a plot. The PCs will have to find covers of wealthy folks and infiltrate the first commercial space flight to destroy or steal some god machine shit. Anyone have ideas to flesh it out more? Been a while since I thought about it.

Which Arcana allows you to best replicate the Spin? It's effects seem to be either Matter and Forces, or Space.

>>43590091

Hey Dave. Mind telling us why "soul-shenanigans" are so secret/mysterious? I mean, there are a truckload of threads over on OP boards discussing it without actually coming to a consensus.

>>43590095
What is it you do?

>>43590313
Matter is just slow energy.

>>43590451
The Spin?

>>43590447
>DtF
>find covers
>god machine shit

That's DtD, Anon. Fallen is the one where you're actually possessing people and the god machine doesn't exist.

>>43590468
>The Spin?
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, Part 7: Steel Ball Run

>>43590091
>Afternoon, Anons! What's occurring?
Trying to come up with reasons why a Mage WOULDN'T try to create a cult vaguely patterned after his Watchtower and main Arcana, either for sheer self-aggrandizement & cheap muscle, out of genuine belief or as a means to cheese Paradox.

Actually wait, wouldn't that explain Scientology rather well?

Feels like Acanthus and Obrimos would be especially susceptible to one and two.

>>43590069
The facility looks a little something like this.

Outwardly, it's pretty inconspicous. Just a low office block inside a hedged, fenced area with some basic security systems, an innocuous little company nameplate and a handful of security guards. The place is positioned out of town in a brownfields area – old wasteland or scrubland where it has no immediate neighbours. Just another little industrial or science office, nothing special.

The floors of the office above-ground are empty but for unused furniture gathering dust. The desk secretary at the entrance listlessly switches between glancing at the security camera feeds and poking her Facebook account. The security guards are particularly surly and glowering but don't care a whit for what happens even an inch outside their fences.

The tiny skeleton of staff are Wolf-Blooded, of course, but there aren't that many of them. First, the Tzuumfin don't want to attract attention to the location and second, the real defences of this installation are significantly more terrifying than a handful of 'Blooded.

The heart of the facility is underground. It burrows out in concrete and steel veins that thread deep into the soil – entirely illegal and uncatalogued floors of labs, holding chambers, storage tanks and the like. There's not even a door between the office and the facility – getting in requires using Influences to shape an entry through a solid wall.

(cont)

>>43590386
>I always found the line between Life and Matter harder to draw.
Well, at least /someone/ in here can still be amused by the oldschool robot ethics questions, I guess.

>>43590038
>>43590447
Shit, should have made that clearer. The Descent is what I meant, but cheers bud.
They're pretty different games right?

>>43590565
Down there, though? Down there, you'll find some of the things you expect – gleaming, sterile white rooms with flasks and syringes and humming electrical container systems. You'll find surgical chambers with pristine, razor-edged implements, and observation rooms, and even a large chamber fitted out like a zoo enclosure for wolves complete with a running stream, trees and grass. You'll find whirring data servers and offices with some of the finest computational equipment money can buy, although you'll not find a single wire or wireless connection going in or out of the entire place.

And then there are the other rooms, the ones where the Tzuumfin really get into the guts and gristle of their work. All that clean, structured approach, all the genetic analysis equipment and pipettes and medical gear, it can only get you so far. You want to reach out and shake the Old Father's paw, you have to work with muscle and sinew and Essence.

So they do. One room is hung with flayed skins, each carved with First Tongue runes that constantly drip blood into channels; the red stuff is carefully collected as it runs off into plastic containers. Another has a subject suspended in chains, his flesh jammed full of teeth – just teeth, teeth of all kinds and sources, forcibly ground or stabbed into him. The grate across his muzzle shows that his own have all been ripped out. A glass quarantine chamber reveals the tumourous, pulsing mess within; you can see a few bits of original limb but the grossly distorted, regenerated tissue has long since obliterated most of the subject's features. From time to time, a robotic arm with a saw descends and cuts slices off the subject, depositing them into an automated testing system.

(cont)

>>43590468
>The Spin?
I guess I should have clarified;

The Spin is an ability used in the 7th part of the Jojos Bizarre Adventure manga. it relies on manipulating the Mangus effect when hurling steel balls at people. This ability can be augmented and improved with the Golden Rectangle. the most powerful ability is Super Spin which can Cut objects it hits, or anchor them in place and make them unable to be moved, plus it can be used to drag things from other dimensions towards you..

>>43590580
Entire vaults, just room after room after room, are filled with the gentle clink and patter of bloody fluids running through immense alchemical apparati, an insane labyrinth of tubes and flasks, burners and coolers with no sensible arrangement to them and no evident source for all the gore. One wing of the facility is made not of concrete but cartilage and sinew. There is a library of parchment, vast sheets of the stuff hanging one after the other in their hundreds, each scribed with a disturbing mess and tangle of glyphs and references with occasional blotches of red ink splashing into existence on them, obliterating a node in the relationship network and leaving everything below it frantically reshuffling with a noise like the scratching of an ink quill. The doors are Claimed, shaped and fused into their places. There is a large box within a holding cell that has water constantly pouring over it, and you can hear the occasional banging from whoever is locked within. A radio set next to it occasionally crackles on and spits out a name or a place or a time.

There's a chamber that has blood plasma (the red cells carefully sifted out) washing through a basin in the floor, occasionally running electricity through it and with cameras carefully recording how the fluid spasms and twitches, ever so briefly, into strange forms. There are three rooms each with a hanging, monstrous carcass dangling from chains and wires and medical tubing; each carcass is in a different stage of regrowth, but none are complete and each shows signs of mutation or warping that will render it crippled or mad even if the process is completed. There's a series of tubes with humans in them being slowly rendered down by digestive fluids, for no clear reason. A heavily protected, icy-cold room is filled with syringes of blood and chemicals, each labelled with sacred glyphs and ready for injection.

(cont)

>>43590468
>Matter is just slow energy.
>life is only a consensus and we're all the children of atlantis
Bill Hicks was a Mage. Prove me wrong.

>>43590570
Nah, more about plant life in particular.

>>43590588

This sort of thing just goes on and on, getting worse the deeper you go, down towards the lowest room where they hide away the flap of desiccated hide supposedly hewn from the carcass of the Old Father Itself.

Even here, there are few presences. Much of the place is set to work autonomously; Tzuumfin check in from time to time to analyse data or run the more… direct experiments as needed. It's not all robotics or mechanics; just as much is done with bound or servile spirits. Some of the machines themselves are Claimed, admixtures of flesh and chitin and metal. Occasionally an entire squad of Pure are shown down here to get juiced up on the good stuff, the refined stuff, the Grade A primeval memories of a lost age all rendered and written in blood, and God help you if you tried to raid the place then. Still, even if you managed to get in here at another time, when most of the Tzuumfin weren't present and you felt you could handle the oozing Claimed and muttering spirits, that's when the security trips and opens the doors to all the bottom floor holding pens. Out they come, stumbling or undulating or writhing, the failures and the forgotten, the dead-ends and the disappointments, the specialised creations and the little surprises that the facility directors like to keep in reserve.

Enjoy your stay.

>>43590588
>>43590580
>>43590565
>>43590602

>day job he said
>taking care of business he said

>>43590433

Because, as Chris noted, it brings the furries out of the woodwork like no one's business. Changing Breeds was bad enough on it's own in that respect.

Perhaps make them a little less "rough" - any child of two werewolves is miscarried/stillborn and seen as a major dishonor. The Unihar themselves are basically spirit-ghosts that are more interested in preventing werewolf - werewolf unions than in tormenting the parents of such failed children - well, beyond exposing their dishonor to werewolf society.

Their main goal is to get their "parents" to admit their crimes and make restitution, which gives them a boost in rank and frees them to pursue a greater purpose.

This is difficult, not only because of the stigma in Forsaken society, but because the majority of unihar are a result of the Pure - the Pure believe the progeny of werewolf/werewolf unions are deliberately killed in the womb by the Unihar. Often a Forsaken werewolf's restitution will involve getting a pure werewolf to recant their misdeeds.

>>43590602
See, i left this place for good reason but I come back and propose some nerd werewolf geneticists cause the Ivory Claws deserve more and we get this. Thanks man.

>>43590602

A few points:

1. If there's no wired or wireless connections, how's the secretary checking her Facebook account on her desk computer?

2. How the heck did the Ivory Claws build and supply such a huge and monstrous lab without anyone noticing?

3. Most importantly, congratulations, you've begun to merge W:tF and W:tA with your Pentex-like evil laboratory. You no doubt have a bright future with Paradox/WW and their "One World of Darkness."

>>43590433
>... why would that matter?
Because 'do Gauru-form have dicks' is not really something I can be bothered to spend a great deal of time or effort on.

>>43590468
>What is it you do?
Run a small local publishing business. It's currently crunch-time for the Winter editions but I am feeling tired and woozy and not very motivated right now.

Captcha: Wow captcha is really obsessed with auditoriums right now, I've had this for nearly every post in this topic.

>>43590714
>2. How the heck did the Ivory Claws build and supply such a huge and monstrous lab without anyone noticing?
I'd say they didn't, it prolly just grew out of the ground overnight, somehow.

What's worse than an Idigam or an Abyssal? An Idigam of the Abyss of course!

>>43590714
>1. If there's no wired or wireless connections, how's the secretary checking her Facebook account on her desk computer?

'Cos there's a connection above-ground, just not with the actual facility itself. She's not actually ever expecting to have to secretary at anyone and doesn't have access to the data on the confidential stuff down below, plus she's probably someone's favoured 'Blooded or relative, so might as well cut her some slack and at least let her waste her time on the net to pass the day.

>2. How the heck did the Ivory Claws build and supply such a huge and monstrous lab without anyone noticing?

Few ways might be possible:
- Shipping stuff through the Shadow, especially with a spirit ally with Shadow Gateway or whatever it's called.
- Slowly building the place up over time - a shipment here, a shipment there, over the years.
- Doing most of the construction work with Influences, Gifts and spirit minions.

>3. Most importantly, congratulations, you've begun to merge W:tF and W:tA with your Pentex-like evil laboratory. You no doubt have a bright future with Paradox/WW and their "One World of Darkness."

Nah, this'd just be a local hub; there'd be others like it across the world, but not particularly networked/organised together. Also they give no shits apart from their focus on blood and That Inheritance, so there's not stuff like trying to get the public to eat Claimed hamburgers or trying to cut down the Amazon rainforest or whatever - the Tzuumfin just don't care. It's a genetics lab, but the sort of genetics the Tzuumfin are dabbling in needs occult tools as well as mundane ones.

>>43590714
>1. If there's no wired or wireless connections, how's the secretary checking her Facebook account on her desk computer?
That was referring to the "down there" part. The underground system.

>2. How the heck did the Ivory Claws build and supply such a huge and monstrous lab without anyone noticing?
Ivory Claws are rich, and if needed can steal lab equipment with ease. As for how, any werewolf can dig out a massive underground complex within a few days with Moldywarp. They don't even need that long.
>3. Most importantly, congratulations, you've begun to merge W:tF and W:tA with your Pentex-like evil laboratory.
Silly boy. WtF doesn't have to ignore technology just because it existed in WtA. That would be stupid. Plus it's not an evil lab.

>>43590727
>Because 'do Gauru-form have dicks' is not really something I can be bothered to spend a great deal of time or effort on.

With the ample word count OPP spends on gender and sex issues, including some controversial sidebars, as well as the simple fact that there's always been some sexualization in mature RPG's like those produced by WW, it's entirely unsurprising that some people will question the basic anatomy and intimate functionality of werewolves (and everything else).

>>43590793
I am honestly not sure you can really call it "worse". Both of them are so unpredictably strange that... you just get unpredictably strange out of any union.

>>43590821
>I don't like it so it's controversial

>>43590743
That's also a good answer! It might be a Place-That-Isn't that's fused with the Flesh, or an interstitial piece of terrain, or something weirder. Someone dreamt it up and the Tzuumfin used his brain (like, the physical grey organ) as a G.E.C.K. that built it all, or it's not actually been built *yet* but some sort of reality-impacting event in the future that occurs in it is causing a ripple back through time that has made it appear (go go circular logic), or the Tzuumfin just came across it ready to go and no sign of the original creators at all, or suchlike.

>>43590793

That's a "eats 1d10 investigators per round" enemy if there ever was one.

>>43590459

They're not. Or, rather, that thread is full of people insisting that things are less clear than they are.

Souls are insubstantial things that are visible (when not properly inside someone) in Death-Twilight and the Mage Sights of all five subtle Arcana but still not tangible. They appear without fanfare at the moment of birth and completely vanish at the moment of death. Mages who bring people back to life (hey, it happens) find that the ressurectee always comes back soulless.

They ground their host's personality, such that if you lose one you cling to your vices as your will to exist slowly drains away leaving you a shuffling, willpower-less mess.

They're connected to the subtle Arcana (Mages and Mummies, in rare occasions of working together, do agree that souls are fivepart; the Pillars do actually map 1:1 to Subtle Arcana as well) and, in mages, to the host's Path. Not having a soul screws a mage up - all their spells risk Paradox, which they can't contain.

They also appear to be more complicated than either mages or mummies (the two subject-matter experts in the nwod) can percieve; in theory a mage who is a Master of all five Subtle Arcana should be able to create them with a Making spell, but they can't. It requires archmastery.

Sin-Eaters sometimes call ghosts "souls" in a poetic fashion, but as any Moros knows, they're entirely different things. Some high-Rank ghosts and cthonians do have soul-manipulation powers, as do many Recondite Supernal Entities.

>>43590821
Yeah, I know. It's fair enough. I'm just moaning cos I've had a tiring day and it's an easy target.

>>43590520
I was testing you. You passed.

>>43590823
You sincerely underestimate the Abyss my friend.

>>43590743
>>43590845

Or it was already the facility of another conspiracy (Cheiron, an ambitious Dragon Coterie, Infrastructure, etc) and they just took over either as the result of a major turf war or simply because the original owner had to leave for some reason.

>>43590679
What made people call Werewolf the Furry Splat is because it EXPLICITLY HAD RULES ABOUT WEREWOLF WEREWOLF SEX. Even if those rules were "you can't do it, nuh-uh, it makes an ugly baby or an evil baby and everyone hates you for being incestuous", that's still explicit rules about werewolves fucking.

Worrying about that makes a game lesser. Makes it creepy, really. And even then, WHY? Why would the metaphysics support that anyway? What does it add to the game?

There is no reason to be so damned afraid that furries might yiff yiff that you make a game worse for it. Nevermind that they can just ignore that rule in the first place. It's on par with the CthulhuTech creator acting like Tagers explode when they get into a Mech.

If for some strange reason you're still against werewolf-werewolf romance (or even hook ups), some packs still abide by that as the strict definition of "The Uratha must Cleave to Humanity".

>>43590853
Yeah, when you are the spirit of something that doesn't exist in a world where everything is wrong, things tend to get rather...weird.

>>43590574
One is Christian demons and the other is cybernetic dingalings

>>43590841

The sidebars and other gender commentary are "controversial" because it involves sensitive cultural issues that many people actually disagree about, and there has indeed been controversy over the both tone and content. Controversy does not need to imply agreement or disagreement with the material.

For instance, the Mortal Remains sidebar was considered offensive to some who actually agreed with its basic position because of it's very aggressive and arguable self-righteous perspective.

Your (or my) agreement with OPP on the subjects do not change the fact that they're indeed still controversial.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KThlYHfIVa8
Mage in a shellnut.

>>43590810
>Plus it's not an evil lab

It's not an evil lab??? Did you read the same thing as me?

>>43590974
>pregnancy is a sensitive cultural issue that many people actually disagree about

>>43590946
I would argue you are underestimating the Idigam. I would see an Abyssal Idigam as multiplying 0 with 0 (or ∞ with ∞, or dividing both, take your pick).

Almost everything the other could be is already encompassed by the other. While their exact natures are very different (and they do react differently to certain supernatural phenomena), the sheer scope of what either could be is pretty fucking infinite.

>>43590985
Yes. There's blood and body parts. Biology is ugly, but it's not evil.

>>43590864
>Souls are insubstantial things ... They appear without fanfare at the moment of birth ....

Well, that will no doubt generate a little controversy in the USA if it's explicitly in the book.

At least if Mage was real life, it could finally end the abortion debate. C'est la vie

>>43591006
>I would see an Abyssal Idigam as multiplying 0 with 0 (or ∞ with ∞, or dividing both, take your pick).

Now I have a headache.

>>43590864
Also the Idigam have some soul-related powers just for fun.

>>43590974

Do we have to do this again, Branford. Also pre-emptively Aspel. Let's not do this again.

>>43590957

Can you imagine Cheiron losing their facility to a bunch of Werewolves in a giant Hunter/Wolf battle? Now that sounds like a fun session.

>>43590727
>Because 'do Gauru-form have dicks' is not really something I can be bothered to spend a great deal of time or effort on.
"Sure, why not" is my go-to answer for most things.

>Run a small local publishing business
Periodical publishing, or are you about to be inundated with NaNo scripts?

>>43590974
>>43590841
To be fair, "it has caused controversy" is what "controversial" means. And these threads bitching counts as controversy.

>>43590990
You must not pay attention to American politics. Pregnancy is indeed a sensitive cultural issue, hence all the stuff about abortions, contraceptives, and a woman's right to breastfeed in public. Those are sensitive cultural issues that a lot of old white Republicans care about.

>>43590990

Not pregnancy per se, but certainly OPP's very liberal views on gender and identity. Whether you like it or not (and we actually probably agree), people hold a wide variety of views on the subject and it is indeed controversial.

As I also indicated, it's not only the basic underlying opinions, but how they are presented. For instance, the treatment of the subject matter and directives to the reader were certainly very different in Werewolf than Mortal Remains.

>>43591079
>You must not pay attention to American politics. Pregnancy is indeed a sensitive cultural issue, hence all the stuff about abortions, contraceptives, and a woman's right to breastfeed in public. Those are sensitive cultural issues that a lot of old white Republicans care about.
Wow you really don't know what you're talking about. The issue Republicans and Catholics and Hispanics (why are you so racist? I guess it really goes hand in hand with ignorance) have is with birth control, not pregnancy. And with breast feeding it's about nudity.

>>43591087
>As I also indicated, it's not only the basic underlying opinions, but how they are presented. For instance, the treatment of the subject matter and directives to the reader were certainly very different in Werewolf than Mortal Remains.
Considering in Werewolf all it mentions is that supernatural shapeshifter don't really have a gender identity and their perceived gender has nothing to do with whether or not they get pregnant, yes. But that's not really a controversial subject either.

>>43591043

That's the Abyss slipping in. It'll pass in a few days.

>>43591133
>It'll pass in a few days.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfdEdE96En0

>>43590864
>They appear without fanfare at the moment of birth and completely vanish at the moment of death. Mages who bring people back to life (hey, it happens) find that the ressurectee always comes back soulless.
Define "moment of death". My mom was dead for two minutes and she doesn't *seem* soulless, most of the time.

>Sin-Eaters sometimes call ghosts "souls" in a poetic fashion, but as any Moros knows, they're entirely different things.
I've been doing some research for Ghosts for my not!WoD novel. Care to give me some information about how WoD ghosts work?

Specifically, Ghosts bring up some interesting philosophical questions, considering they're soulless but not, and not driven by vice. They kind of remind me of a lot of philosophical concepts, like the P-Zombie, Swampman, a lot of stuff about digitization of consciousness, the Chinese Room, the question of whether, if the transporter in Star Trek creates an exact copy and destroys the original, Kirk is still Kirk after a teleport.

>>43591031
Hrm. If the soul appears at the moment of birth, but not conception or during gestation, what about when someone is from the womb untimely rip'd?

>>43591074
>Do we have to do this again, Branford.
Who?

>>43591159
One minute in and I am loving it. I really am a Scelestus-in-training. Fug.

>>43591125
>The issue Republicans and Catholics and Hispanics (why are you so racist? I guess it really goes hand in hand with ignorance) have is with birth control, not pregnancy. And with breast feeding it's about nudity.
People have a lot of issues. Time was you couldn't even say the word "pregnant" on TV, because pregnancy explicitly implies sex for most people (although that's changing, thanks to SCIENCE!)

Pregnancy is a sensitive topic. If you don't believe that you probably don't pay attention.

>>43591125

Because you think people shouldn't believe differently than you about sex and gender identity and related issues does not mean that a great many people don't actually hold such opinions. It matters not at all if you believe those who hold different opinions are wrong, ignorant, misinformed or foolish.

Until such time as there aren't a wide variety of opinions on the topic, and the subject is no longer so sensitive to so many, it is indeed controversial.

>>43591219
>because pregnancy explicitly implies sex for most people
Again, the issue is about sex and its exposure to the masses, including children. Not pregnancy.

>>43591190

I'm sure the more pious obrimos will rant about death being untrustworthy while every other obrimos rolls their eyes and sighs externally.

>>43591229
>Until such time as there aren't a wide variety of opinions on the topic, and the subject is no longer so sensitive to so many, it is indeed controversial.
Then it wasn't controversial, because there aren't a wide variety of opinions on the topic of shapeshifters and their gender identities.

>>43591079
>Periodical publishing, or are you about to be inundated with NaNo scripts?

Periodical, no NaNo scripts.

>>43591190
>Hrm. If the soul appears at the moment of birth, but not conception or during gestation, what about when someone is from the womb untimely rip'd?

I would assume the instant the child is "ripped from the womb" would be considered the moment of birth for purposes of a soul under Dave's rules.

However, discussion of souls always risks some theological controversy.

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First time cloning anything, original is on the right.

>>43591192

Keep it up and you'll get to meet the Old Man In The Hut! I hear he's got every version of Netflix in there! Even the secret ones!

>>43589911

People always talk about WoD in here. I'm just sick of talking about Geist. Why not talk about Mummy instead? Why does every thread need the same homebrew PDF posted when no body even asks for it?

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>>43591237
And that means pregnancy is explicitly a sensitive subject because it refers to sex. You don't see the connection there? You can't talk about pregnancy because it's a sex topic. I've seen people complain about pregnant women being in public.

>>43591255
But you can see it with Prime as well. Prime Mage Sight watching the doctor's room and boom, soul at birth.

>>43591256
Just because something is fictional doesn't mean there aren't a wide variety of opinions on the subject. And if you're a fictional realist the fact that it exists within the fiction makes it real, and people have opinions on the fiction and how it's affected by that aspect.

I mean, jeez, people in this thread froth at the mouth over it. That's controversy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NNYj8kPjCk
This not just any bread, it is bread...FROM THE ABYSS!

>>43591304
Good work, but wrong thread.

>>43591336
Not really, Cloning is, presumably part of Matter, right?

>>43591321
>And that means pregnancy is explicitly a sensitive subject because it refers to sex. You don't see the connection there? You can't talk about pregnancy because it's a sex topic.
It means sex was a sensitive subject in the 1950s. It doesn't mean pregnancy was or is a sensitive subject.
>I've seen people complain about pregnant women being in public.
Everyone knows you never leave the basement.
>Just because something is fictional doesn't mean there aren't a wide variety of opinions on the subject.
Yes, actually, it does. Especially with something as niche as Werewolf the Forsaken.
>I mean, jeez, people in this thread froth at the mouth over it. That's controversy.
One person does not a wide variety of opinions make. Another person whines about it because they're super Christian but they whine about everything like yourself.

>>43590552
>Trying to come up with reasons why a Mage WOULDN'T try to create a cult vaguely patterned after his Watchtower and main Arcana, either for sheer self-aggrandizement & cheap muscle, out of genuine belief or as a means to cheese Paradox.

>Feels like Acanthus and Obrimos would be especially susceptible to one and two.

According to the spoiled Nimbus rules, a high Gnosis, low Wisdom Obrimos will probably create religious cults surrounding him whether he wants to or not.

I imagine it would get annoying real fast if all your friends, neighbors and Fallen co-workers began thinking that you were a prophet or messiah.

>>43591317

It's just their deal, don't sweat it. I'd like to talk about Mummy myself, but I don't think enough people have really read or played it to get a discussion going.

That said, I'm gonna do it. Seybat experience, do you use it in your games? I'm pretty iffy on it, but I kept forgetting to let my Mummies get Memory dots naturally in play and I feel awful about it, so I've fallen back to using it.

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>>43590602
>>43590588
>>43590580
>>43590565

Thought this was awesome. Decided it needed to be saved for posterity.

>>43591317
Actually, people have asked for it before. And there are at least two people with Geist homebrews.

And if you're sick of talking about Geist... so what? Why should anyone care? Other people are talking about it. If they wanted to talk about Mummy they'd be talking about Mummy. Maybe you should actually try to start a Mummy conversation?

We've had days long stretches where people DID talk about Mummy. I didn't complain (much).

I mean, shit, you've bitched about how people were talking about Geist more than anyone has actually talked about Geist.

>>43591402
Are you dumb?

>>43591402

Again, because you don't believe people should have a difference of opinion on a topic, or think that opposing opinions are somehow wrong or invalid, does not change the indisputable fact that those opinions exist, often in very large numbers.

The fact that a controversy exists, by itself, is also not a determination or judgment of the merits of anyone's opinion.

>>43591460

Aspel, just let it go. You don't gotta have a big argument every thread.

>>43591442
That filename caused Aggravated damage to my sides...help.

>>43591460
>Are you dumb?
Annoyed with whining shitposters such as yourself.

Especially when you glorify your laziness.
>oh I'm a neet, oh I'm depressed, oh I'm anxious, I can't get a job, I can only sit on 4chan all day and annoy people and watch anime

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So, I was curious about some things.

How long are your Chronicles on average?
Do you tend towards starting fresh 0 XP characters or do you often play with more experienced starters?
How strict are you/your STs with what you can spend XP on?

>>43590864
>Recondite Supernal Entities.

Sorry, but what is this?

>>43591427

I believe Mummy doesn't get that much attention because it uses 1e rules and is expressly not very crossover-friendly.

>>43591500
>Again, because you don't believe people should have a difference of opinion on a topic
I never expressed my beliefs about the matter.

Just the fact. The fact that this
>those opinions exist, often in very large numbers.
is not accurate for a sidebar on gender identity for shapeshifters in the wtf2e book

>>43591514
Hey, at least it ain't grievous.
I suppose I could've made it "A nice workplace in WoD" too. Hmm.

>>43591518
>oh I can't finish it because everyone shits on my work
>oh people shit on my work because I never finish it or take anyone's advice and tell anyone who gives me advice they're wrong
>why can't I write for opp?
>i better tell david hill how he's doing everything wrong but chris allen and daveb are doing everything right, that will make a good impression
>why is everyone saying mean stuff to me on the forums?
>i better sit on 4chan anonymously so no one can filter me and if they call me on my shit I can just go upstairs and tell mom to make me a sandwich and watch anime then pretend I wasn't the one posting when I come back

Mwu-ha-har. Yeah, Mage just says "moment of Birth" and "moment of Death". If some mages get entirely too caught up in trying to narrow that down experimentally... Good.

>>43591165
Uh... Ghosts *do* actually have their Virtue and Vice reversed in utility, in the exact same way someone who's soulless does.

A ghost is an entity made of ephemera that resonates with the Death Arcanum, as contrasted with Spirits and Goetia which resonate with Spirit and Mind (although they do have minds, so you can cast Mind spells on them like you can on anything as long as you can perceive them, but you need Death to alter their stats, force them to Manifest and such).

Whether or not a ghost is a copy of a person at the moment of death, or that person's actual mind transferred into an ephemeral shell is a topic of much controversy and bitter academic fueding among the sort of mages who care about that kind of thing. Regardless, the majority of ghosts are *enough* like people to make no difference.

Ghosts can and do form from animals and inanimate objects just as much as from humans, and someone being soulless doesn't change their chances of leaving a ghost behind.

Like spirits, ghosts vary in power. The least form are things like vanishing, bloody handprints or sudden chills, not even personlike. The majority of ghosts in the material world are somewhat damaged, mentally - they repeat their deaths on a loop, or get stuck in the past. A minority, though, are fully sapient, and most supernatural beings that deal with ghosts can uplift one into the other.

Ghosts are "fed" by being remembered, and tend to lurk around things linked to their living states. When they lose them, they're drawn through portals to the Underworld, the cthonic labyrinthine afterlife of the World of Darkness. Once in the Underworld, though, ghosts find themselves sustained by its energies and can grow and evolve beyond their initial appearances and powers.

>>43591555

That and Mummies just aren't popular creatures, yeah. There's like, exactly two good Mummy movies. I've mentioned that my Mummy game is actually my most crossover-y game, but yeah it doesn't help that they're all off on their own, even if it is fitting.

That said, Necropolis: Rio is coming soon and I am HYPED. Washington DC's book was pretty fun, and I loved running Eve of Judgement, so it'll be nice to return to Rio.

>>43591541
Those Supernal Entities made of the Subtle Arcana (Fate, Mind, Death, Prime and Spirit).

>>43591558
>I never expressed my beliefs about the matter.

Sure you did. However, it appears you really believe your opinion is fact and you get to set the terms and scope of any discussion, and thus there's apparently no actual controversy.

>>43591613

Some become Geists, some Kerberoi. The Underworld has other inhabitants, though - its native entities, the mysterious never-born Cthonians, don't always appreciate the immigrants and sometimes prey on the dead.

Last random factoid: To really bake your noodle, mages have observed some people leaving ghosts without actually dying. And a powerful enough Death mage can make a ghost out of someone without them dying, too.

>>43591610
Don't forget.
>oh no I'm not a pedophile, I just think about it a lot and how the laws should be changed

>>43591514
It's a wonderful place for the whole family.

They... they really want you to bring your whole family.

They're making quite a big deal about it actually. Just do what the scary people want you to and maybe you'll get out alive.

>>43591613
>>43591639

Ghosts and the Underworld: still the coolest aspect of any WoD setting.

>>43591613
>>43591639

>Mwu-ha-har. Yeah, Mage just says "moment of Birth" and "moment of Death". If some mages get entirely too caught up in trying to narrow that down experimentally... Good.

Since a mage's potential power of both Life and Death far exceeds the capabilities of modern medicine, what constitutes dead dead for purposes of the soul leaving the body. For instance, if someone passes in relative peace from old age, how long will it take the soul move on.

I also imagine that experimentation on the subject is an express train to Wisdom loss.


>Whether or not a ghost is a copy of a person at the moment of death, or that person's actual mind transferred into an ephemeral shell is a topic of much controversy and bitter academic fueding among the sort of mages who care about that kind of thing.

Shouldn't mages with sufficient ability with Mind be able to ascertain if a ghost is the transfer of an actual mind or just a copy?

>Last random factoid: To really bake your noodle, mages have observed some people leaving ghosts without actually dying. And a powerful enough Death mage can make a ghost out of someone without them dying, too.

Interesting. Is this new for 2e?

>>43591613
>If some mages get entirely too caught up in trying to narrow that down experimentally

I want to make a Mage who's driven to basically classify the various types of ghosts, using the same sort of jargon-heavy lingo they do in Ghostbusters.

"Sir, what you had there was what we refer to as a Focused, Non-Terminal, Repeating Phantasm, or a Class 5 Full-Roaming Vapor. A real nasty one too."

>>43591756
>Shouldn't mages with sufficient ability with Mind be able to ascertain if a ghost is the transfer of an actual mind or just a copy?

Doesn't that depend on what a Mind is? I mean, if it is a perfect copy, what is the difference between it and the original?

>>43591706
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddi2TBnzdPo

>>43591613
>Uh... Ghosts *do* actually have their Virtue and Vice reversed in utility, in the exact same way someone who's soulless does.
Oh.

So is there a substantial difference between the bloody handprint sudden chill ghosts? What exactly are object ghosts?

>>43591639
How does ghost-without-dying work?
Is it like the two times Harry Dresden did that?

Just how many Cthonians are there compared to ghosts? What do they *do*? Just hang around? Hell, what do ghosts do when they're in the Underworld, or even when they're up in the real world and not spooking?
Do they sit around and think about life, or do they just sort of go dormant? Do the ones in the Underworld have bars and do musical numbers, like a Tim Burton movie?

>>43591819
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swampman

>>43591890
>Is it like the two times Harry Dresden did that?

He only did it once. The other time it was just a shamanistic soul-walk, perpetrated by an angel who had a job he needed done.

>>43591819
Use Time to verify its age.

>>43591890
>Hell, what do ghosts do when they're in the Underworld

It gives you a lot of time to pursue your hobbies, I tell you that, son.

>>43591925
>BE.

>>43591941

Cthonians and Ghosts appear to have mini-civilizations of some sort, but they're not very human in their organization.

>>43591890
>Just how many Cthonians are there compared to ghosts? What do they *do*? Just hang around? Hell, what do ghosts do when they're in the Underworld, or even when they're up in the real world and not spooking?
>Do they sit around and think about life, or do they just sort of go dormant? Do the ones in the Underworld have bars and do musical numbers, like a Tim Burton movie?

What ghosts do depends a lot on where they are. If they're in the Depths then they probably spend time wandering around and feeling sorry for themselves, trying to 'get out', etc. The lower you go the weirder things get. Every Dead Dominion has its laws so that restricts what they can do there and most of them have sort of a theme so that draws them to do things associated with it. The Geist book though talks about huge ghost banquets of vice-indulgence, brothels, etc. I'm guessing hunting other ghosts for sport to. Any way to indulge a vice can be found and in abundance.

>>43592064
>Cthonians and Ghosts

That's my favorite RPG line.

>>43591925
Close enough.

>>43592126

It, of course, has six stats:

SAD
MAD
BAD
GLAD
RAD
and of course, DAD

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>>43592162
>and of course, DAD
Ghost Dad?

>>43592285
Yes, in fact the Orzhov could be used as a faction of either Hunters or Mages collaborating with Geist through their Sin-Eaters.

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Those Ghost Notes I mentioned.

>>43592285

Yes. The six stats account for every ghost that will ever exist.

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Reading through Slasher at the moment, and in conjunction with a debate on Spiderman's various incarnations an idea has begun to form.

Query, would it be cheese to have "Mantles of Legend", i.e objects whose ties to a Legend persist beyond its elimination?

I'm currently imagining them as murderweapons, clothing items or even simply specific colour combinations that allow someone "in the know" to tap "into" the Legend's power on a successful Occult + Willpower roll.

Example: The small town of Whitebridge has the recurring rumour that unfaithful spouses will be punished by a specter in white wielding a machete.

The original White Specter was put down a hundred years ago, but each time someone out for revenge against an unfaithful partner assumes the identity they will gain a - at first weak, then increasingly stronger - version of the same template, simply by following the folk tale's stipulations.

Coincidentally that could also explain certain cliches 'mundane' vigilantes commonly follow in fiction. The reason masked martial arts doodz in capes don't get their asses murdered is because they can't. Not as long as they do not overstep their bounds. Comic Batman's Frailty for example would an inability to kill. The one Batman who did kill was obviously an imposter because upon touching a gun he immediately ended up with a bad case of villains learning how to aim.

What do you think, /wodg/?

>>43592476
Works perfectly fine. Maybe have some sort of roll or tracker for moving from Ripper (Avenger) to Scourge (Legend).

>>43592476
Sounds fine. Sort of a mixture of a cursed Relic and a Slasher template.

>>43591850

You know, a WoD Revealed campaign where the Pure straight up attempt an Impurgium would be pretty neat. That'd pretty much be the theme song.

Dave, is there anything you can tell us about the fiction in nWoD?

I still remember way back, reading the thematic intro fiction in the original nWoD Core got me into this whole shebang good.

I hope there is more than just the God-Machine (and I say that as someone who really likes it).

>>43592640
Priest that uncovers "thing" that kills people in small village every 50 years and they all just ignore it because it's for the best was what suckered me

>>43592640

My favorite piece in the core is the transcript of the lecture by the cryptozoologist. It's influenced how I run the setting.

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>>43592476
Really? Spider-Man is what you go with? There have only really been two Spider-Men. I guess three if you count Spider-Man 2099 and Spider-Girl, but that's even more alt-reality than Miles Morales. I'd have gone with The Flash or Green Lantern. Or Robin. Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Stephanie Brown, Damian Wayne... Robin might be the most used legacy mantle.

But I like the concept--since I'm a fan of legacy characters and hate all the "why do they need a [female Thor/black Captain America], why can't they be their OWN characters?" stupidity from people who aren't familiar with comics.

I love the concept of passing the mantle, or--in the event of a hero's death--taking up the mantle.

I mean, happens with Supervillains a lot, too.

I like the idea of this as basically being a Slasher Copycat gives you their powers.

>The one Batman who did kill was obviously an imposter because upon touching a gun he immediately ended up with a bad case of villains learning how to aim.
Jean-Paul Valley or Jason Todd?

Also who hype for Bad Blood?

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>>43592552
Relic in the Aegis Kai Dooru sense? OOoooh man.
ALL.
The.
FUCKING.
VAULT.
RAIDS.

The world shall drown in the gigatons of salt upon VASCU realizing that, yep, AKD has been poking shit with sticks again and, yep, more than one of their number is more than happy of using the acquired items and information to wreak merry hell upon issues they've been otherwise hard-pressed to make gone, as well as the surroundings.

After all, what better to combat a monster than another one?
>>43592538
Hmm. Ye. I'm thinking it'd be kinda like Awakening. You have one chance to successfully assume the Mantle. Upon failing (either by messing up the kill or violating the Frailty, which is perfectly possible during the first run) the artifact/whatever else comprises the Mantle will never work for you again. If you succeed, you slowly rank up as normal, with all the strengths (I'll never type that word correctly without spellcheck) and weaknesses that entails.

>>43593165
>Jean-Paul Valley or Jason Todd?
Either works, really.
>>43593165
>I like the idea of this as basically being a Slasher Copycat gives you their powers.
One big drawback I see is that There Can Only Be One, which is (in actuality) decided by timing and accuracy, but tends to be assumed to be a Highlander type of deal.
>But I like the concept--since I'm a fan of legacy characters and hate all the "why do they need a [female Thor/black Captain America], why can't they be their OWN characters?" stupidity from people who aren't familiar with comics.
Well, not to get into that argument, but in THIS particular case (seeing how this is 4chan imma need to stress that it's got no bearing on my opinion of comic book incarnations) it would not work since Thor/Cap/what have you would need to conform to the Legend as closely as possible. Again, has nothing to do with this debate or my irrelevant opinions on it.
>Really? Spider-Man is what you go with?
As I said, comes from a discussion I head. Not my choice.

>>43593361
>Relic in the Aegis Kai Dooru sense? OOoooh man.
I think there was actually a show or movie where there was a murder weapon that turned you into a murderer. Pretty sure there's a few things like that in WoD.

>it would not work since Thor/Cap/what have you would need to conform to the Legend as closely as possible
Why? Because they're black/female? I mean, isn't one of the GhostFaces female? Spoilers for one of the Scream movies, maybe, not that it matters.

Also isn't there a slasher movie where the Final Girl turns out to be the killer in the sequel? Is that the Scream one I was just thinking of? Did I make that up?
It actually seems like a cool idea anyway. Final Girl turned Slasher.

Also, Thor totally works, she's even wielding the same murder weapon! You can't tell me Mjolnir doesn't have a ton of death on it :V

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>>43593420
>Why? Because they're black/female?
Exactly for that reason.
>the rest
Please, please, PLEASE see above. It's not something I want, will or even can comment upon further.
>I think there was actually a show or movie where there was a murder weapon that turned you into a murderer. Pretty sure there's a few things like that in WoD.
Haha, likely. I vaguely recall something like that from some old Ducktales comic I read ages ago, not that I think about it. Probably influenced the original idea subconsciously.

>>43593420
>anon says he/she doesn't want to get into a debate about thing
>other anon immediately jumps getting into debate about thing
4CHAN!

>>43593503

There's not a single fight Aspel won't turn down from.

>>43593576
>Aspel
Is that our version of Carnac or something?

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>>43593486
>It's not something I want, will or even can comment upon further.
Why? I feel like "I won't have this conversation because this is 4chan and some Anon will get buttflustered" is silly.
I also kind of think that it's silly that you'd make distinctions like "you have to be the same gender/race as the killer", especially since you used Spider-Man as the reason you thought about this, and Miles Morales is very different from Peter. Unless for some reason you meant Ben Riley in which case nevermind, Clone Saga is dumb. How close DO you feel someone needs to be, then? Why would things like that matter when aspects that are more important to the "mantle" should matter more, like in your example a spouse who was cheated on. Shouldn't it not matter who they were?

I feel there are more important thematic things than race and gender, or any other physical appearances (aside from, perhaps, scarring, but that's more of a Mask/Brute thing).

It just seems to me like something where you'd be intentionally cutting yourself out of plot hooks, if for no other reason than the whole "the killer was actually one of the victims all along!" trope. Although like I said I might be making that up myself. I'm probably going to use that as a plot hook, unrelated to magical mantling.

>>43593503
>other anon
I'm literally the person they were talking to in the first place. They said "I wouldn't do that" and I said "why, it's a missed opportunity". You act like saying "I don't want to talk about that" means other people don't want to talk about it.

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>>43593653
Alright then.

Speaking of Legends, would it be interesting to have them be tied to Arcadia, what with being essentially narratives come to life?

>>43590386
>I always found the line between Life and Matter harder to draw.
Life is alive. Matter is dead.

>>43593698
>that text
My mind is full of fuck.
>>43593714
What is Life?

>>43593726
Baby don't hurt me.

>>43593653
>dat pic

I'd let her slash me. With her vagina. And with me, I mean my penis.

>>43593698
That's not Arcadian, that's Abyssal.

Also, eh... if anything they'd be more related to the Primordial Dream.

>>43593739
You're thinking of love.

>>43593698
>Speaking of Legends, would it be interesting to have them be tied to Arcadia, what with being essentially narratives come to life?
That was always kind of my headcanon. That or they draw on the Shadow and become half-spirit.
>>43593739
Life is Hurt.

>>43593714
>Life is alive. Matter is dead.

And murder is apparently the easiest magical transmutation of all...

Is that a feature or a bug of the setting?

If Dreams of Avarice does well, do you think there's a chance of us seeing The Book of Going Westward?

>>43593754

I've read that comic and let me just say, it wouldn't end so well for you.

>>43593754
>I'd let her slash me. With her vagina. And with me, I mean my penis.
Always be careful what you wish for, anon.

>>43593780
>>43593790
I am surprised the first two did not involve vagina dentata.

>>43593774
>Is that a feature or a bug of the setting?
Well, it IS the World of capital d Darkness. So... feature.
>>43593801
>I am surprised the first two did not involve vagina dentata.
It was too obvious a joke to make.

Which of the Dark Eras are you most excited for?

Zimbabwe Mummy/Mage does things for me.

>>43592953
Is that in the first core or the GMC core?

>>43593754
Hack/Slash, Anon. Go read it. It's awesome.
http://kickasstorrent.proxyindex.eu/hack-slash-v2-1-25-annuals-2010-2013-complete-minutemen-dts-tarutaru-novus-nvs-d-t7277098.html
Basically it's a Legend and a Mask killing other Slashers. they even use the term Slasher. I don' think Cassie (or Vlad) is *technically* a Slasher--since Slashers tend to have supernatural abilities and healing factors--but there is the implication that Cassie might be, since her mother was.

>>43593780
She's also a lesbian. Well, was, until they decided "fuck it, the main character fretting about her awkward LDR with another girl isn't interesting, let's just put her with the ~bad boy~".

I kind of hated how Hack/Slash went near the end. It was still kind of interesting, but the stuff with the ~evil cult~ and Samhain was not as fun as Cassie and Vlad going around in a van murdering zombie monsters.

>>43593779

I doubt it. Mummy's in an awkward place, because it's stuck with the last edition's rules and the line isn't even over. It's been three years and we still haven't gotten the anthology or the novel yet, which is all that's left of the Kickstarter rewards. It doesn't make much business sense to keep the line going without starting a new edition. I'd say it'll happen in a 2e line, but well. I'll just be happy to get what we're already getting.

>>43593834
Year Without a Summer Promethean.

But oddly enough, I most want to see the sidebars in each chapter that give a little hint of what the era is like for all splats.

>>43591613
>(although they do have minds, so you can cast Mind spells on them like you can on anything as long as you can perceive them, but you need Death to alter their stats, force them to Manifest and such).
Do spirits have Minds, and do Mind spells work on them?

The Primal Wild's Inferior Arcanum being Mind makes me suspect the answer might be "no", but if ghosts do then spirits might.

>>43593862
1ed Core. There are a lot of cool stories there, including the very original God-Machine story.

>>43593834

Every Mage setting is going to be great. Year Without A Summer Promethean is going to be so good. Reconstruction Era Beast is going to be a fucking train wreck and I can't wait.

>>43593862

1e core, page 23, "Roads Less Traveled".

>>43593881
Me too. Something like Vampires of the French Revolution.

>>43593873
The recommendation is appreciated, but it does not sound like my cup o' tea.

>>43593904
If they are manifested or you are in the Shadow with them, you can use Mind on them, going by the fact that one of the examples of Supernatural Tolerance is a vampire Dominating a manifested spirit.

>>43593834
I think Black Plague Vampire/Promethean or Ottoman Demon.

>>43593881

All I care about is the Mummy sidebar in Neolithic Mage.

>>43591321

I loled, but then I remember the lunar exalted.

>>43591358

I'd assume life, but if you want it to last, i'd recommend using stem cells from the base species involved and shaping them with magic for permanent results.

I'm pretty sure you can still make a HIT mark in NMage, too.

>>43593361
>Aegis Kai Dooru
Could it be any more obvious that they're a Guardian project gone rogue?

So I know I'm one of like, five people who likes MtC.

How popular is DtD?

>>43593971
fuck I forgot about neolithic mage holy shit

>>43594002
It would be more popular if it wasn't such a logistical nightmare to run

>>43594002

Fairly popular on RPGnet, decent fandom on here and SA, beloved on OPP forums.

Also now I'm reading the 1e nWoD core again. Fuck that first chapter is still incredible.

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>>43593970
>The recommendation is appreciated, but it does not sound like my cup o' tea.
Still, anyone else out there who is interested in Slasher or even just running Hunter should read Hack/Slash.

>>43594047
>Also now I'm reading the 1e nWoD core again. Fuck that first chapter is still incredible.

My nignog. It might be weird, but I think that is one of the things I am looking forward to the most: More vanilla nWoD fiction.

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So /wodg/,

if you were to run a zombie apocalypse game using 2e and the zombie generator from Antagonists, would you add any special mechanics or Conditions?

Virtue, Vice and Integrity seem already a pretty good start to get interesting and genre interactions going, but it feels like one could add things to make it feel even more like classic zombie apocalypse fiction (i.e. the survivor sometimes become more dangerous to each other than the cannibal dead). Maybe something for Beats or Willpower recovery.

What do you guys and gals think?

>>43594140

Me too! The supernatural lines are fun, but nWoD's greatest strength has been its Mortal stuff. The World of Darkness Second Edition is a book I'm buying on day one.

How does /tg/ pick a name for their motley/cabal/krew/etc?

>>43594274
Pick a word or two that fits. Then run it through google translate until I find one that sounds good

>>43594006
I can't wait for people to see what's in the Neolithic chapter, though I'm slightly nervous of the weight of expectations.

>>43594306
Dude, with your Fun Home you put up on a fucking whim I'm sure everything will be great

>>43594274
My group has a smartypants who likes to come up with names that are just barely not too meta to become silly.

>>43594306

There's really been a lot of hype, but if past performance by you, Dave, and others is in any way indicative, everyone should be pleased.

Do you know if the books been approved by your new Swedish overlords?

>>43594339

Examples?

>>43594416
Game set in Las Vegas. Cabal name?

"The House" (...Always Wins)

He had some other suggestions along those lines, can't reemember any though.

>>43594333
Thanks :) Bit of a difference between rattling out a few hundred words and maintaining quality across, what, something like 28k words.

Also it's, well, it's quite a different setting to most of the others in the book. People have so much more familiarity with even the Classical era and how people lived in it that I had a hell of a lot of ground to cover, all while trying to make it as game-able and useable as possible rather than just being dry historical recounting.

>>43594387
>Do you know if the books been approved by your new Swedish overlords?

I dunno how the new system works but I'm pretty sure it doesn't go to approvals til the art and layout are done, and last Monday Meeting indicated the art wasn't all done yet.

Anyway if I fuck it up you all get to crucify me on here.

>>43594518
A crucifixion is the sort of thing you really want to do in person.

We'll see you at GenCon.

>>43594504
What I meant was that if you can rattle off that quality that fast, you are probably in the clear.

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>>43594274
This is for a fantasy thing, but I'd probably use this. For NPCs, since I'd be the GM.

Although come to think of it I've never really had to use named groups, except when I was on a MUSH. I think only one group had a really meaningful name, and that was just "the Adventurers". We were "The Lighthouse", which was thematic, but also just our base of operations.

>>43594534
I suddenly have pressing business elsewhere next Gencon.

>>43594534

Look, dude, there's a tradition you have to maintain. The Fan Crucifixion is at DragonCon, GenCon is for the Developer Knife Fights.

>>43594504
Actually, I'm curious as to what extent peoples' expectations match what you'll get.

So, anon, what are you expecting of the Neolithic chapter?

>>43594564
Bah. Barely any blood gets spilled at those. How are we supposed to appease the lurking horrors?

>>43594589

Me, I'm keeping my expectations light. I'd like a lot of adventure hooks, with some advice on gaming in the era. If I had any wishful thinking, it'd be for the sidebar about what's going on with the rest of the WoD to be very detailed.

>>43594589

Not that particular anon, but I'm excited to hear more about the gods of the Border Marches and to see if you guys spare a mention the pre-civilization Shan'iatu.

>>43594563

No need to wait until GenCon. The trip from Sweden to the UK is much shorter and cheaper than the American Midwest, and so convenient with border free EU travel.

I'm sure Mr. Swedish Dracula would be happy to make a special trip to see you...

Doesn't Dave live near you? Paradox can take out the two of you in the same trip!

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>>43594589
>So, anon, what are you expecting of the Neolithic chapter?

Clan of the Cave Bear meets WoD.
One Million Years B.C. meets WoD.
Caveman meets WoD, complete with Ringo Starr riding a plastic lizard?

>>43594657
yfw Paradox is a Scelestus cult

>>43594694

Well I mean, it's in the name. We really should have seen this coming.

>>43594589
Mages being feared and known about
An alternative to Paradox that isn't based on how many people see it happen; something like the Nemesis thing I vaguely remember in the Dark Eras spoiler a while back, where it's based on the Mage's cultural/personal taboos instead of whether or not people witness the spell.

>>43594694

I don't care if Paradox is a front for the Prince of 100,000 Leaves or run by Ochemata of the Exarchs. I just want my Mage 2e books without delays or major creative changes.

>>43594943
>not wanting the book to be a proper Abyssal Artifact

And there's this faggit.

>>43594862
>An alternative to Paradox that isn't based on how many people see it happen
Why would this be the case? Paradox has nothing to do with what people think is possible and everything to do with if Sleepers can see you, so can the Abyss.

>>43594985

I would like my book to exist within the same time and space continuum, thank you very much.

Hey, Dave, if you're around, can things like Promethean and Beast and Demons have their Soul removed? What do they look like to soul magic?

>>43596640
That's an awesome question. What if you replace a Beast's soul with a human one? Do they become a human?

>>43596640

Prometheans and Demons don't have souls, and Beats already had theirs removed.

The better question is whether mages can even directly manipulate the Divine Fire and Horror of Prometheans and Beasts, respectively.

What are some good low-level tasks for a fresh coterie to be made to do, that simultaneously introduce players who aren't familiar with the setting to some of it's aspects?

>>43597228
What happens if you stuff a human soul into those things then?

>>43597268
>What happens if you stuff a human soul into those things then?

I'm not sure it's even possible.

However, since this is the World of Darkness, my stock response would be, very bad things...

I'm thinking along the lines of a spiritual explosion, and I wouldn't want to be a ground zero.

>>43596640
>>43597228

I always wondered what happens when you remove a vampire's soul... thing.

I always figured that the entirety of their vampire condition is within their soul counterparts, meaning removal of the soul leads to instant dusting, as it happens during Diablerie.

>>43597495

Unfortunately, although I too would love answers, I believe these are the type of crossover questions Dave claims to have studiously avoided in the Mage 2e, and may never be directly answered.

>>43597228
>Beats already had theirs removed
I wouldn't be so sure about that.

"Worst of all are mages who steal the souls of victims for use in experiments or fuel for strange powers; a Beast’s soul is a difficult but prestigious prize for so-called “Reapers.” Due to Beast’s connection to their Lair mages can’t steal the soul of a Begotten just by casting a spell in the physical world. It requires as much ability with the Arcana as taking the soul of a mage, and can only be cast inside the Lair. Despite the risks, some Reapers who learn the existence of Beasts go on twisted safaris into the Primordial Pathways, convinced that they can reduce the Children of the Dark Mother to big game."
Page 226

>>43597495
That'd probably just result in a corpse.

>>43597572
Technically he said he's avoiding it in the corebook. He's also said we're getting some answers in Dark Eras.

>>43597577
The original soul is destroyed in the Devouring and replaced by the Horror, I believe.

>>43597577

I forgot about that section, and would certainly be interested in Dave's take, particularly since he wrote the Lair section of Beast.

However, the excerpt implies that taking a Beast's soul simply kills it, and offers no insight as to what advantage it provides a mage other than a trophy or if a mage could replace it with a mortal soul.

>>43597577
>It requires as much ability with the Arcana as taking the soul of a mage, and can only be cast inside the Lair. Despite the risks, some Reapers who learn the existence of Beasts go on twisted safaris into the Primordial Pathways, convinced that they can reduce the Children of the Dark Mother to big game.
That sounds fucking awesome and I'm not even playing a Reaper.

>>43589688
It's literally the plot of 'It Follows'.

>>43597710
Great flick

>>43597661
>Not playing a Reaper

>>43597710
Yes, and the poster was saying "that sounds just like The Ring except with sex instead of a video tape"

>>43597264

Have them shadow a hound doing town patrol. When they take care of whatever thing goes wrong that night, it'll give them some brownie points at Elysium to take advantage of/squander.

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>>43591317
whoa hey, since you seem so keen on talking about people talking about Geist, here is some stuff I wrote for Geist that I've posted several times now.
Now, there was an interesting conversation in the previous thread based around the question:
Does the Geist line need political factions as might be consistent with the other major lines?

One person said no, and I'm inclined to agree. After all, my intuition for the second half of the soft class design pattern was the 'methods of Returning' or Renascence.
But if it did have to be foregrounded for the sake of setting, I would build it from the archetypes. The first step may have to be describing 5 archetypes that could work as such as foundation, with the rest being neutral or even antagonists. Mourners, for example, could be an antinatalist death cult, seeking to drag everyone to the underworld whose harsh experience they have internalized.

>>43598413

It may not need its Y splat to be a dedicated social splat, but it does need a stronger social aspect. Sin-Eaters are considered party animals and constantly form into large krewes which create smaller krewes. There's absolutely social factions to be had in that sort of structure.

>>43598413
My idea is to give Sin-eaters political factions to brush against each other. More like the Tribes of Werewolf than the Covenants, really.

>Mourners, for example, could be an antinatalist death cult, seeking to drag everyone to the underworld whose harsh experience they have internalized.
That sounds terrible and also not at all what Mourners are like.

I was planning to basically ditch Archetypes and create four to five groups of people who's outlook on death, the Underworld, and the Sin-eater condition differs. Some would be Covenant-esque religious groups (think the Crone and Lance) but for the most part they'll be closer to the Changeling Courts. Sort of like the Archetypes, but much stronger, more defined, and more worthwhile.

I plan on calling them Carnivals.

>>43598413
this leaves me with the five main player oriented factions
The first one is straightforward;

The Gatekeepers work as the litigious do gooder faction, being the most busting-is-intrinsically-right kind of ghostbusters rather than the jennifer love hewitt benevolent busting of the Advocates. Being rules-oriented, they'd find their analogue in the Silver Ladder or Invictus, but are less oriented towards leading; only enforcing their vision of balance. Reapers might fit comfortable into this group as the side of the scales that deals with the living before the wicked generate more restless dead. There is plenty of imagery, like the Scales of Maat, that could be drawn upon to name such a faction.

>>43598539
I plan on having antagonistic Carnivals as well, like Sin-eater equivalents of the VII. Maybe the Sacrosanct are a specific Carnival. I know that the Church of the Black Gate from Through The Ebon Gate should be a full bad guy group.

The long and short of them--and they're a great setting idea that is only in an SAS--is that they're a church or cult that sees Sin-eaters as being the perfect being, a merger of ephemera and flesh. They idolize Sin-eaters and want to become like them--which includes suicide attacks and things like that--and also tend to hate Sin-eaters for... well, come to think of it I'm not entirely sure why the SAS opens with a terrorist attack on a Flesh Fair by a Sin-eater cultist.

Either way, the Church of the Black Gate tends to try to become Claimed by Ghosts and Spirits to be just like the Sin-eaters.

the sin-eaten? kinda like shadow-eaten back in wraith?

Do they actually eat sins though

>>43598539
it's a dramatisation of the possible Mourner position of Death as a superior mode of existence. Throwing them into antagonist territory frees up the other archetypes for use.
Mourners outlook as part of a 'big 5' could perhaps be a stealthy group that gathers intelligence from the dead.

>I plan on calling them Carnivals.
is there are more specific word for a travelling Carnival? In a fancy language perhaps?
Another issue: Players would have to have a reason for joining 'movements' or 'group identifications' that don't have a strong politic identity or discrete organizational form

>>43598688
>is there are more specific word for a travelling Carnival? In a fancy language perhaps?
Carnivale?
I plan to call them Carnivals because the PC groups are called Krewes.

I'm also thinking about creating Ghost-Kiths to represent what abilities the Geist brings to the table, but I'll probably just keep that as a minor Touchstone instead. One that gives Willpower or Plasm for fulfilling a Condition.

>>43598770
please, Sin-Eaters post-revival should join one of 5 Jollifications, each of which have several sub-Jamborees that reflect more nuanced outlooks.

>>43596640
Prometheans... don't have souls, I think, and Azoth is what serves as their animating force instead.

Demons are souless, but their Primum acts like a soul. And their mind. And all of their identities at once. Look, it's a aether foundry kickstarted by self-actualization that exists in a quantum state, Demons are weird.

Beasts's souls are their Horrors, and other anon has already explained what's up with trying to remove those. Nascent Beasts before the Devouring seem to have a sort of pseudo human soul that acts like a proper one until they come into their true nature. It might be the tattered and or hollow remains of their human soul to be. Whether it's like that from "the moment of Birth" or it only becomes so over childhood is debatable as a deep connection to the Primordial Dream develops is debatable and ambiguously explained.

>>43597495
>I always wondered what happens when you remove a vampire's soul... thing.
You get a Strix and a corpse. Becoming a Strix is to a Vampire what becoming Mad is to a Mage.
Strix are to Vampires what Quasshmallim are to Prometheans.
I need sleep.

>>43599133
Prometheans basically have molten souls that aren't finished baking yet. They have to get it the rest of the way manually, which is what the Pilgrimage is about. As outside, so inside. By learning about humans, their soul becomes human.

>>43599171
Right. I forgot about that. It's been a while since 1e, and I never really read it attentively.

>>43598685
>>43598650

They're actually a bit more like the Risen. Sin-Eaters bond with a being known as a Geist to have a second chance at life. They call themselves Sin-Eaters because...well I guess because Revenant was already taken.

>>43591321
Wait. I can use Luna's embrace to torture people? That's some wonderful body horror shit.

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Would Death 3/Spirit 2 be enough for a ritual to semi-reliably make randoms into Sin-Eaters? Because Sin-Eater henchmen sounds like a fairly decent way to gain rather resistant supernaturally capable muscle, that little thing about suicide aside.

Also a cheesy pseudo-Resurrection spell buuuut y'know. THAT'S TOTALLY ACCIDENTAL.

>>43599539
Geists are just high-rank ghosts now, anon.

You'd summon a Rank 4 ghost and then use a Ruling spell to force it to use a Manifestation.

>>43599539
you probs have to emulate the Bargain somehow, else they'd lack the powers and gatecrashing abilities

>>43599539
>Would Death 3/Spirit 2 be enough for a ritual to semi-reliably make randoms into Sin-Eaters?
Artificially applying a Supernatural template is a matter of Archmastery.

>>43599577
To be fair the person could do that themselves. It's just that Geists seem kinda bad about actually being close enough to the material world to get to a dying person in time more often than not. Supernal magic might get around that.

>>43599641
maybe cause they have to follow various Old Laws, which may indeed have an effect on Supernal compulsion

>>43599641
>Supernal magic might get around that.
To summon a Ghost from the Underworld, you need Death 5.
And that only permits them to come for the sole purpose of answering questions.

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>>43591613
>Mwu-ha-har. Yeah, Mage just says "moment of Birth" and "moment of Death". If some mages get entirely too caught up in trying to narrow that down experimentally... Good.
I would title that publication, Soul resonant instantiation and determinance time. It'll cover the SRI experiments and the misconceptions surrounding the subject matter; most importantly, distinguishing the time scale of the resonant basis and not the readout basis, thereby formally establishing the moment where a human is endowed with a soul.

The biggest problem with classical approaches to ensoulment assessment is the predominant use of kinematic structures. We replace this model in our work with the variational principles of the Subtle Arcana. First, it provides a definition of compositional equilocality at different instances of time: relative to the system. The purvey of the Fate Arcana is rigorously defined in this way, in regards to the instantiation of the soul. One can say that the system has some instantaneous configuration at a given instant, being Fated to arrive. This amounts to quotienting divination space by the four other compositional Arcana symmetries.

The ensoulment prediction rote is characterised by a time-ordered string of Time Unveiling ordered casting operators. Probabilities are assigned to histories of a closed system via the casting if and only if all histories in the set obey the condition of consistent readable outcomes. This requirement of all assigned probabilities to satisfy the conditions of high-fidelity precognition is to ensure high-precision estimates for the final ensoulment result: If soul instantiation (or synthesis) is gradual or near-instantaneous.

Typically, the question of what approximate detection actually means and how small the error margin really needs to be is one of many highly contested topics; the most widely discussed of which is: do divination attempts create resonance tampering retrodiction?

>>43591639
>mages have observed some people leaving ghosts without actually dying
Yoink.
Man, sitting around in /wodg/ is a gold mine for game ideas.

>>43599539
No, because you'd probably need a Rank 6 Death Making spell to create a template.

Or if you had a Geist around you could probably compel it to offer the Bargain, and if you had good enough Death you could maybe Make a Geist (unless that involves special procedures, which it just might).

>>43599685
No they don't. Old Laws are the rules in the Dead Dominions.

>>43599641
That's why there's so few Sin-eaters. You need a Geist, of which there are few, and you need a dying person. You need them together at the same time, too.
Which is why some Geists will engineer a situation where they can offer the Bargain

>>43599740
That's not Soul Stealing. He's reading how that guy was murdered.

>>43599778
>Rank 6 Death Making
7 actually, Practice of Entities.

>>43599778
the Old Laws are really vague, and are the justifications for some Synergy sins. It's plausible entities might act in accordance even out of the underworld.

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>>43591756
>Shouldn't mages with sufficient ability with Mind be able to ascertain if a ghost is the transfer of an actual mind or just a copy?
Ghosts are too useful as 'things', not as people.

>>43599796
They reused that art asset in the Left-Hand Path book for a Mastigos Libertine Legacy calling themselves the Alienists.

>>43592388
When human beings die, especially in a sudden or traumatic fashion, they sometimes leave parts of themselves behind. Ranging from broken, animated after-images unable to do anything but re-enact their death to intelligent, malevolent once-human spirits with power over whatever kind of calamity killed them, the World of Darkness teems with vast numbers of the restless dead. More ghosts exist than any other supernatural creature, but the truly powerful independent specters of legend are rare.

The majority of ghosts are poor at influencing the world, trapped in their insubstantial state and unable to even Manifest; they are noticed only as a strange chill or eerie vibe, if the living sense them at all. Ghosts are drawn to places and people that they had emotional connections to in life — these things anchor the ghost in the world and allow those with enough power to Manifest, whereupon they carry out whatever mad urges they still feel and attempt to further the goals they left undone in life.

Ghosts feed on Essence, a spiritual energy created by memory and emotion that builds up in their Anchors and is fed directly to them when they are remembered by the living. Ghosts that lose their Anchors and can’t transfer their attachment fade from the world, passing over to a dread realm filled with all the orphaned Ghosts that have gone before. This realm has many names in occult writings; Tartarus, the Great Below, the Land of the Dead, the Dominions, or simply the Underworld.

>>43600250
The living seldom visit the Underworld, though mediums and death-obsessed mystery cults all over the world teach that gateways leading there are more common than supposed. Its doors exist in the same Twilight state as ghosts themselves, invisible and unnoticed by the living. Tales of living occultists who learned the right places and the proper ceremonies to open the gates of death describe the Underworld as a chthonian hell of passageways, tunnels and caverns, filled with desperate ghosts that lost their grip on the world.

The Underworld sustains the dead, allowing them more freedom to move and act than the living world, but also imprisons them. Once there, ghosts may increase in power and influence, evolving beyond the image of the person they were into twisted rulers of dead kingdoms or sponsors and advocates of particular forms of death. If summoned back to the physical world or allowed to escape the Underworld by chance conditions, a ghost that has spent centuries growing stronger can wreak havoc until exorcised.

Destroyed objects — everything from a pen to a building — appear as afterimages in Twilight, formed of the same ephemera as ghosts. These spiritual structures and items fade away on a timescale depending on how strongly they're remembered. Famous structures, or even obscure ones that are loved and thought about frequently after they're destroyed, can last decades, solid and substantial only to ghosts.

They are all Echoes of the Dead.

>>43600074
>Reusing art assets
Absolutely haram.
What are the Alienists?

>>43600260
>They are all Echoes of the Dead.
Why is that in a spoiler? Am I missing a pun?

>>43600378
>What are the Alienists?
They take peoples' souls out to see how their victims' minds degrade from derangements, then put it back in to observe the recovery process. They do a bunch of other bad stuff.

>>43600378
>Absolutely haram.
Lots of companies do this.

>>43591639
>mysterious never-born

What you did there.

I motherfucking saw it.

>>43600607

Wraith is in everything forever, and I couldn't be happier about it.

>>43600534
>Lots of companies do this.
Doesn't mean I have to like it.

>>43600652
>>43600534
To be fair, LHP and IM were really fucking bad about it. I think the only unique art were the covers, everything else was reused or did not feel particularly good.

>>43600701
Really?
I liked the art they used for the Tremere. What was it originally from?

>>43600824
Don't quote me on it, but I think Silver Ladder maybeeeeee...

>>43600874
>Silver Ladder
Ugh. Now I feel dirty.

>>43600652
no, but its kind of pointless. its like not liking a fast food place putting pickles on a burger. yeah not everyone likes pickles, but its not like they're going to stop so why even give a shit about it.

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How do you guys form a chronicle? How do you lay out the plot and make sure the clues make sense? How do you keep that shit from being dumb? Forming a PLOT as opposed to a sequence of events that just happen and aren't connected is so fucking hard for me at the moment. I feel like I'm coming at it from the wrong way, with the wrong approach, but fuck me if I can figure out what I should be doing.

I've been reading up guides on things like how to write a mystery novel, but it all seems to assume I know what I'm doing and all I need to know is "put it in the three act structure". It doesn't tell me how to use clues or anything like that.

And every time I just bumble along my players don't ever really *notice* they're on a little toy railroad, not really solving problems so much as they are advancing linearly, but I still kind of feel dirty when I use coincidence and happenstance instead of clues. During a hunt for a serial killer "you see him in a crowd" should not be how I put the players onto his trail.

>>43600975
Anon you can have it your way if you don't like pickles.

>>43601081

>How do you guys form a chronicle? How do you lay out the plot and make sure the clues make sense?

I just wing that shit, and get real good at bullshitting.

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>>43601081
>Anon, you can have it your way
I 'ear thy summons.

>>43601197
NO!
No, Satan! BACK, BACK! I renounce thee!

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Anyone read the Dresden Files comic books?

They're pretty good. Not really helping me as far as plot ideas go, but good.

http://bushtorrentz.com/Jim-Butcher%20%20039%20s-The-Dresden-Files-Graphic-Novel-Collection-torrent-5164614.html

>>43601610
Try asking a question that doesn't get asked several times a week in these threads.
Hell, even a simple ctrl+f for the word "dresden" tells you there are people in this thread who have read the books, and literally 4 posts up >>43601081 is another post with a picture from the comics.

>>43601610
Gdammnit. I'm a huge Dresden Files fan, but there ARE other inspirations for Mage.
Hell. Dresden is a bad one, even, since the settings and philosophies behind magic are so different.

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>>43601763
>Try asking a question that doesn't get asked several times a week in these threads.
I'm that other poster.

And I asked if anyone had read the COMICS. I doubt most Dresden Files fans even know there are comics.

>>43601811
Eh. I wouldn't say they're "so different". It's closer than other magic settings I've seen. And I know there are other inspirations. I've been reading the Greywalker series, and while I think Kat Richardson has trouble describing things (come to think of it, I wonder if maybe that's because of the whole "she doesn't own a television" thing her About page proudly declares?) and the .epub has some bad formatting and a few spelling errors, but Greywalker is really good for an idea of what Twilight might be like--she's very much got that whole Geisty "seeing the dead all the time and having trouble drowning them out" thing going on--as well as the way that her connection to the Grey gives her what amounts to Mage Sight.

She sees auras, and can sense magical effects. Going deep into the Grey--what is effectively Twilight, the place of creatures of death like ghosts and vampires and zombies, and also a place where there are the remnants of different time periods all stacked on top of one another, with ghosts and Greywalkers able to move between them; ghosts walking through walls is described with the same rationale that I've used, they simply walk through an area where there's no wall in Twilight--means that she's also able to see the underlying fabric of reality, which she sees as taut, pulsing strings of living energy. Some of the chapters seem like exactly the kind of descriptions that DaveB has used for Mage Sight and how it feels and functions.

But at the same time, Dresden Files is a lot more action packed, better written, the characters are more interesting, and it's more popular. Not to mention I recently picked up the graphic novels, so it's on my mind.

Chinese cover looks cool, though.

>>43601081
meticulously
1-3 plot cores
1-2 factions per plot core
1-2 subfactions per faction
1-3 characters per subfaction
1-5 affiliations per character or as required
Each faction, subfaction and character has an overall longterm goal and different means to pursue those goals, and characters also have personalities, indicating how dedicated they are to those long term goals and other such dynamic human issues.

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Another UrbFan book I liked was Urban Shaman. I haven't really read any of the other Walker Papers books, but I've got it on my list.

Joanne Walker is basically a Sin-eater. Gets stabbed with a sword and Coyote gives her the choice to become a Shaman or die. She's DOUBLE MAGIC because she's the child of both Native American AND Irish magical bloodlines. She works in the police garage, instead of being a detective in her own right.

Her big showdown in the first book kind of seems like blowing the series load too early, as she has to stop The Wyld Hunt.

>>43602077
That's setting, not plot. I think. What's a "plot core"?

I'm talking about the "what happens". My problem has always been... say it's a Hunter game. I have a Slasher going around like Kuchisake-Onna. I know that she's a former Hunter who went off the deep end, and she's just killed her cellmate, and is looking for a journal that belonged to Jonathan Harker's son. How do I get the PCs to know all that, get the journal, and stop her?

>>43602279
this is how you layout what happens
the plot core is anything from a macguffin to that time one character didn't offer another an Hors d'oeuvre at a party.
Once you know what everyone wants and how they are going to go about getting it, you can fit the party in. Even better is when the party characters have enough affiliations to send them to several leads.
All the plot really has to do is showcase a wormhole that brings you closer to a plot core aka the reason everything is happening.

>>43602279
>>43602356
so you've got two connections
one from the other Hunters and another from the incarceration facility the cellmate got murdered in, which you can use to convey some of that information.

>>43602416
>the incarceration facility the cellmate got murdered in
Cellmate as in Hunter cell, not prison cell.

>>43602433
might have to work the other way. A series of altercations such as robberies or break-ins might deductively imply the target is the journal

>>43602489
I was thinking it's been dropped in the library's book return slot (and she killed her cellmate for not telling her), but I'm not sure if that works. Mostly because it's another thing where I'm not sure how to lead the PCs to it.

>>43602545
from her cellmate then, you might find some overdue book notices that she hid from the slasher somewhere
when you go to the library to ask about the book and when it was taking out etc, you learn it's been returned.

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>>43602576
I think I might be getting some ideas.

>>43602820
Honestly. I wouldn't use Dresden pictures as WoD-pictures, since there is a Dresden Files RPG out there already.

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>>43603411
... so?
I've used Dresden Files images before and literally no one has gotten confused. Probably because they all say "World of Darkness" on them. Heck, I'm pretty sure I've seen Cyberpunk 2020 and Netrunner art as the header of the Shadowrun threads.

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>>43599778
>Becoming a Sin-Eater is like getting married in China
http://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/gender-01222015125826.html
IT ALL MAKES SENSE

LONELY GEISTS LOOKING FOR COMFY FLESH HOME

PLEASE CALL +1-303-555-LIFE TO BRING ANCIENT GHOSTS SOME CRISTMAS SPIRIT

>>43603883
>CRISTMAS SPIRIT
>The Ghosts of Christmas Past, Present and Future are Geists
Splendid!