>After murder hoboing your way through the entire kingdom

>pop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2jVbSI9H4o in my earbuds
>put on my best indifferent face
>prepare for asian-levels of dodging

>>43574616
I like Undertale as much as any guy, but what is the point of this thread?
>>>/v/

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>>43574616

I believe not.

>>43574649
Like all threads on /tg/, we have no need of other boards. All threads may be encompassed on /tg/ by simple statements such as "stat me" or "Your next dungeon" or "This gets me horny"

Your arguments, as your pathetic tumblr-driven life, are again, irrelevant and unwanted.

It did interest me the last time there was a stat me thread about Sans, there was one anon who suggested that he could usurp the turn order and act every time a small hourglass depleted.

He can also make it his turn forever. That's some major fuckery to your average murderhobo.

>>43574616
>"It's a beautiful day outside. Birds a-"
>"Get 'im, Mister Snakey!"
>MISS
>"Did you really think I was gonna ju-"
>[gun noise intensifies]
And then the entire battle was circumvented because Nechronica characters don't have a menu for sans to exploit and won't take an entire multi-round battle to think to attack him twice on the same initiative tick.

>>43574616
What is this and why is it considered a concern for the Murderhobo Train?

>>43574861
Because your going to have a bad time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFnUCNIStRw

>>43574773
Do you have some screencaps of that thread? Or do you remember any other ideas form it?
I must say I'm pretty interested in the idea of running Undertale themed encounters.

>you are blue now
>you won't be hurt if you didn't move before the attack

>>43574971
I think the problem with doing that is Undertale inherently tries to shirk the whole turn based thing by making the combat system half bullet hell/platformer.

Translating those mechanics into a turn-based format kind of misses the point.

>>43574971
Well checking archive for some statems, I found
http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/43487542/#43487542
and a hourglass post http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/43487542/#43495593
So yeah, go check it out.

>>43575015
Well obviously, but you can encompass BONES and TIMEFUCKERY shticks into turn system.

>>43575033
One idea I read in a thread like that to pull out a stopwatch and tell the player he takes damage every half minute or so. While the game is still turn based. I thought it's a pretty nice way to simulate 4th wall breaking mindfuckery.

>>43575022
Thanks a lot, dude.

>>43575015
Yeah, you're probably right, but it doesn't hurt to test some simple mechanics that can change the flow of combat a bit.
Vanilla D&D combat gets boring after a while.

>>43575015
That's why you don't directly copy mechanics.

Sans's fight only works as great as it does because he breaks the rules of a video game. So have him break the rules of a tabletop game instead.

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>>43574616
Sans, let's make this the greatest ten minutes of our lives!

>>43575115
Like what, throwing paper balls at the players and if they get hit their characters are hit as well?

>>43575176
Throw it at their character sheet.

Meta-fuckery has been pretty rare in RPGs to my knowledge, but that is not for lack of possibility.

There are a lot of meta aspects to tabletop roleplaying that one could fuck with. Character sheets, dice, individual players, interaction between player and player character, etc.

>cheap emotional asspulls

i will take great joy in my deeds

>>43575226
>Cheap emotional asspulls.
How?

>>43575176
I ran a game with lots of meta-effects like that. Every boss had a gimmick that was based on the players' actions, not the characters.

Examples:
>Had someone sneak up on the group to place the boss' model on the table. Anybody who didn't see him before he got to the table didn't get to act in the surprise round.
>The boss' Silence spell meant the players couldn't speak either. Speaking meant you lost your next turn.
>Enemy takes his turn exactly 60 seconds after he finished his last one.
>One boss rolled a loaded d20 for all d20 rolls.
>Will save vs trading character sheets with someone else who failed the save.
>Reading one boss' mind let the player look at my campaign notes for 60 seconds.

Stuff like that

>>43575237
Not the anon you replied to, but really, Undertale is pretty emotionally manipulative. That does not necessarily make it a bad game, but it is a thing.

>>43574861
He's a character from a game called Undertale. One of the main draws of the game is that things change depending on which and how many monsters you kill. If you kill everyone, he shows up at the end as an extremely hard boss who can do things like attack your cursor while you're in the menu selecting the Fight option.

>>43575277
As far as emotional manipulation goes, Undertale isn't even that bad. Compare it to something like, say, Ori and the Blind Forest.

>>43575277
Yet it's what makes it so good in the first place to me, it gets me to feel something about it's characters.

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>>43574616
Turn Undead.

>>43575237
You get a scripted crit on toriel in the intro fight after an enemy told you some monsters have to be weakened before you can spare them and toriel specifically mentions she thinks you're too weak to survive in the outside world and she wants to protect you.
Any reasonable person, if they attack at all, would stop when they had a chance of killing her.
So you get a scripted crit.

>>43575285
Thank you for explaining that.

>>43575381
/Thread

>>43575381
>>43575397
I mean, he's got like 1 HD, so any murderhobo would dispel him automatically.

>>43575384
You're fucking stabbing her with a (toy) knife. Did you really think you could handle this without killing her? What, just "wound her a little bit"? Just "draw a tiny bit of blood"?

What did you fucking expect would happen?

>>43575294
Ori wasn't emotionally manipulative. It tried to make you care for a fat bird thing in the 2 minute opening and then immediately killed it off before you actually gave a shit.

Undertale actually made the effort to build a rapport first.

That being said yes UT is emotionally manipulative, and that is not a bad thing.

>>43575384
That seemed to be more of a way to teach you that Flowey will remember what you do. Not really a asspull either, because any sane person would not fight her, and try to show mercy, not just beat her to near death.

>>43574616
Man I really wanna play this game but I hear that it got expensive after it got popular. is it worth the upscaled price?
>>43574639
This song is awesome.

>>43575425
>Ori wasn't emotionally manipulative. It tried to make you care for a fat bird thing in the 2 minute opening and then immediately killed it off before you actually gave a shit.

It was emotionally manipulative. It just failed terribly at it.

>>43575439
Pretty sure it's still ten bucks, and still well worth that money.

>>43575381
He's not undead, he's just a skeleton.

After all, a wise skeleton points out, humans must have descended from skeletons! That's why they have so many pictures of skeletons.

What does it mean to call a story "emotionally manipulative"? Isn't that the point?

>>43575384
The same monster also tells you a time may come when you need to use the SPARE option when it's not highlighted. Honestly, I didn't even think to lay a hand on her. It really depends on the person.

>>43575271
This kind of shit is how you would have to run a Sans battle. Preferably despite having 1HD or the equivalent he would have worked out some meta way to not get hit by their attacks.

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>>43575415
I think anon expected not to get a scripted crit out of nowhere, because it would make sense not to expect a scripted crit in the context of the game. Is that too complicated for you to understand, or do you just like to pretending to be retarded?

>>43575384
Any reasonable person would never have attacked her.

And trying the mercy option more than once shows a changed number of ellipses so the game is telling you that something changed and this might be an option.

>>43575439
it is awesome. It also represents having a bad time.

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>>43575525
the bullet hell seems difficult AF but other than that it seems very fun and full of story.

>>43575525
I'll be honest. The reason I bought Undertale was I saw the Sans Genocide fight. Sad that I spoiled my self but

>That music
>That character and dialogue
>That challenging fight

Made me really want to beat the fight. It calls to me to win that fight.

>>43575464
Strictly speaking, yes.

Usually when people actually accuse something of being this in a negative sense, it means the fiction is trying too hard, possibly cheating the reader/viewer/player. The issue seems forced, instead of arising "naturally" from what's going on.

Consider the Toriel-killing Crit talked about above.

>>43575439
>>43575458
^ This. It's around $10 on Steam. 15 if you spring for the OST version.

>>43575431
>>43575505
>any sane person
>Any reasonable person
Do you guys really think someone who kills a video game character should be classified as insane and unreasonable? Go back to /vg/ so you can jack off to your fake mommy, you big babies.

>>43575569
it's the best written PCRPG I've seen in a long time. The storytelling alone is worth the pricetag and the heartwarming feels you get from a merciful playthrough are all an added bonus.

>>43575577
You are a madman. I respect you.

>>43575601
You're arguing about different events at different points in time. So, either you're baiting or need to read a little more closely.

>>43575625
No, they're both talking about the Toriel fight. Take your own advice and reread.

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>>43575569
yep, if thats something you would pay 10$ then go for it you won't regret it. The less you know about this game the better.

to keep on topic MOST of my characters are reluctant to resort to violence. I prefer subterfuge when I can't come to an agreeable conclusion, but violence is the final bastion for brutes and idiots. So I think me and sans would take a short cut over to grillby's and yuck it up.

>>43575601
We never said that anyone who kills a vidya character would be insane.
Anyone who stabs a blook over and over again is insane.
Undertale is a deconstruction of RPGs, thus you need to think outside of the box. You need to forget a few video game cliches in order not to fuck up.

>>43574616
I see these two skeletons everywhere and still have no idea what the fuck Undertale is.
Friend told me to play it and a quick youtube search gave me what looks like a 64-bit dating game.
Is that it or is there something else here?

Also, why did the price on steam nearly double?

>>43575635
Both of the anons are describing a sane and reasonable person taking a different approach to the fight, before Toriel dies. You are arguing that they are calling someone insane and unreasonable for defeating Toriel, which necessitates that she has already died. My original point stands.

>>43575601
I would agree with you if this were a different game, but you know going in to the game that you can beat any fight without killing them. Just this once you have to feel bad about being a killer you cold hearted child.

>>43575501
Except it completely makes sense in the context of the game. Undertale is very upfront about the fact that you don't need to hurt anyone to proceed. If you resort to violence the second it becomes the simple solution to a problem then you dun goofed and get punished for not even trying to look for a solution.

It's not like the game doesn't light a fucking signal flare about sparing monsters who have yet to turn yellow is a mechanic you'll be using in the foreseeable future.

>>43575685
It's an RPG where instead of hoping the random number generator generates a miss, you take control of your character's heart and dodge incoming attacks in a fashion similar to VSHMUPs.
That's the gist of it, anyway.

>>43575685
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr4IYjeplJA

>>43574681
Wll that sure showed me.

>>43575033
A friend dressed in a skeleton costume comes over and pokes the players with a bone
Their characters take damage each time they are touched.

>>43575669
You guys need to stop acting like anyone who killed Toriel doesn't get the point of the game. The point being made is the scripted crit shouldn't happen, there are many people who knew they didn't need to kill Toriel but still attacked her because they believed they had to weaken certain monsters in order to spare them. This makes sense in the context of a boss fight, where as bosses have significantly increased health. To assume everyone who killed Toriel "just doesnt get it" is asinine. Calling it a deconstruction doesn't change this fact - we get it. You know how else it's a deconstruction? By making everything do the opposite of what is expected. Do you automatically assume this is a good thing, just because you can call it deep? Because I got tired of everything being overly quirky right around the Waterfall part.

>>43575726
The problem is there's people, like you presumably, that have become attached to the characters, arguing with people who haven't become attached to them, like me. I'd argue the game doesn't do enough to make me feel for the characters, so I don't feel bad for killing goatmom accidently. The game tricked me, my fault I guess. I'm fine with a game being clever - a forced crit isn't what I'd call clever.

>>43575743
Making assumptions. I knew about the "sometimes you'll have to spare even if the name isn't yellow" shit, that's not hard to miss. I spared at the beginning of the fight, noticed nothing seemed to happen, and then decided to fight her a bit and was gonna spare again later. This would have been fine without the forced crit. I wouldn't be arguing this if I had the chance to spare her a second time, and then ended up killing her because I thought there was no way around it. Then it would have been MY fault, and I could own up to that.

>>43574861
He's a boss from a stupid hipster game the ledditors won't shut the first k up about.

>>43574616
VENONAT used SWIFT.
SANS tried to dodge.
But it failed...
SANS has fainted.
VENONAT grew to level 20.
VENONAT is trying to learn POISONPOWDER
but it already knows four moves.
Forget a move to make room for POISONPOWDER
YES
>NO
VENONAT did not learn POISONPOWDER.

>>43575805
I'm baffled why a lot of people are so upset that they killed her like it isn't something you can just reset. Hell, you get tipped off to an important plot point sooner than you otherwise would be if you reset after killing her and spare her.

>>43575805
Telling you that you are wrong and also bad for a mistake you could barely see coming fills me with DETERMINATION.

But seriously the crit is stupid, but you are still assuming about the game that you can hurt the monsters with no downside so long as you don't knock them to 0 hp.

To use pen&paper example. You saw a gun with 3 rounds, that does 2d6 per round and an enemy with 37 hp and said to yourself, oh that means the gun is not lethal and I will be able to capture them when they are weakened.

>>43575805
Regarding your last point there, technically you did have a chance to soare her again. Rather than fighting you could have attempted sparing her again.

>>43575931
And she just says ellipses again and again and again.
And then you try Talking and you can't think of anything to say over and over and over.
So your only options are to try and poke her down to 1/2 hp to see if that changes what she says, or to literally be insane.

>>43575158
Why does she have a C-section scar that goes up past her breasts?

>>43575959
Because it is a magic snake

>>43575805
>>43575805
I suppose that getting a crit on the second attack isn't a terrible compromise, but it feels against the spirit of the game's whole "You can solve things nonviolently exclusively to progress" thing.

Let me ask you something: Had you been doing a mercy-only run until that point? If so, then you would have no idea of your own damage output, or that crits are a possibility. Sure, logic would dictate that you would deal chicken scratch to her, but you're still using something you don't understand against her with the intent to harm, and subsequently you don't know what damage you could do, but you attacked her anyways. If nothing else it shows insane carelessness.

>arguing over toriel's death
>when you can just quit and reload before the next time you save and do the fight right
You'll cowards don't even save scum.

>>43575951
You don't have to literally be insane. I got it first try. I innately understood what I needed to do. It's really dependent on who's playing.

A few later bosses on the other hand killed me several times before I figured out what I had to do.

>>43575986
since the monsters have around 14 hp, I think it was fair to assume she'd need A LOT of hits.

In either case, Toriel is a cunt and a whore.

>>43575951
wrong

The number of ellipses changes when you do it again letting you know that its doing something.

>>43575986
>Crit on the second attack
The fuck? It took my friend a dozen or so hits to get to the point where her defense drops because she's lost the will to fight you

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>>43576002
You're doing the same thing over and over and she's saying the same thing over and over, and you're expecting different results.

>>43576027
And who is going to count each individual pixel to see if there might be 1/2 more than the previous time? Literally nobody.

>>43575895
It just feels like a cheap way to make the player feel bad. You reset and flower calls you out on it, like the problem was your fault. The person who said the fight was just a way to force the player to learn about how flowey deals with timelines and shit is completely right. That's why I don't really like it.

>>43575912
Well yeah, I assume there was no downside because no other monster, before or after Toriel, really works like that. There are some that get stronger or faster on lower health levels, but the game logic (not real life logic) never suggests the possibility. I operate entirely on game logic, since I knew the game's main selling point by being emotionally manipulative.

>>43575931
I was planning on, before the crit came.

>>43575986
Nope, I was going neutral. Killing some enemies and sparing most others. Both systems (fighting/acting) get boring after a while so I switched them up so I could enjoy the game more. That's really a different problem though - for all people talk up the ability to spare enemies, it's not really fun (or difficult) in practice. Both systems really could have been expanded upon.

This is all coming from a guy who actually did go up to their bed when Toriel asked them to leave down in the basement hallway. I didn't even want to leave the ruins, but I did want to progress.

>>43576040
But you get different results: >>43576027

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>>43575879
But he's a skeleton. Would a Normal-type move affect him?

>>43576000
they remember you killed them even if it is only a little bit.

also a save scummer calling anyone else a coward. come on now.

>>43576068
Which is why Venonat has Foresight from level 1

>>43576040
She told you you can solve things without violence. Therefor you could defeat her without actually hitting her.
Also, she stops trying to hit you if you're at low health.
You Monster

>>43575501
You don't get a scripted crit on toriel unless you
>spend a shit ton of turns beating the shit out her
>attack her while she is sparing you
>have already killed all the monsters in the ruins

>>43576051
You're retarded. The first time you spare, there is one line of ellipses. The next time, there's two lines. The next, there's three lines. On the fourth there's a line of ellipses followed by a question mark. It isn't a matter of scanning for pixels, it's the ability to notice when something is different from before.

>>43576051
Many people did. The whole game is meta. Perhaps it's not for you, but that alone doesn't make it bad.

>>43576051
I noticed it because t goes from ... to ...
...

see how easy that is to notice?

Tbh senpai, people who even attempt to leave the ruins are scum.

Goatmom only asked you of one little thing, and you cant even do that?
Dou you realize how sociopatchic you sound when the only thing you say to prove how much morally better you are than other players is "I didnt kill her"?

Well congrats, you didnt fucking murder a person. That makes you a normal human beeing, not a good one.
People with actual morals just accept that goatmom knows whats best for you and stop playing the game.


Just because other rpgs treat progress in the game like some sort of hidden law doesnt mean you sheeple need to blindly follow it.
In undertale, you think outside the box and genre conventions.

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Sans; Points; 650
WS1 BS1 S1 T1 W1 I1 Ld1, Sv-
Type: Infantry, Lord Of War

Weapons: Gasterblaster
Type: Beam(30 inches) S1, Ap2, ignores cover

Close combat bone
S user AP 2

Special Rules:
Fearless
Adamantium will
Saw that coming: sans has a 2+ invulnerable save
Karmic retribution: Sans attacks always wound or glance on a 4+, for every successful wound or glance the enemy is hit with another attack
Precognitive: Sans always counts as having the precognition as described in the 40k rulebook

Would you take him in your army?

>>43576091
And then after the 9th time you spare she goes back to 1 line of ellipses, then 2 lines. So you're officially in a loop, and continuing through expecting something to change is the definition of insanity. Congratulations, you have a mental illness. I suggest booking an appointment at the nearest hospital so you can get treatment.

>>43576055
> You reset and flower calls you out on it, like the problem was your fault.

But you killed her, when you didn't need to.

It IS your fault.

>>43576113
I feel like statting sans completely misses the point

>>43576119
Nice ad hominem

>>43576119
It worked though.

>>43576143
You dont even need to play the game.

Without a player, none of the bad things in the game unfold!

Why are you playing just to have fun if it hurts your friends, you monster. Stop playing.

>>43576165
That would be Spec Ops: The Line.

In Undertale, if you don't play the game, you can never save everyone.

>>43576070
I remember when Flowey called me out on it and i was like "Oh fuck"
In fact, undertale pulled more "oh fuck" moments out of me than any other game in recent memory
>The drop when fighting Papyrus
>cooking with Undyne
>Mettaton's quiz show
>Mettaton's everything
>Asgore whips out his trident
>Asgore destroys the mercy button
>Flowey forcequits the game after you kill Asgore
>The true lab

>>43575986
>>43576055
It actually has another purpose as well. It secretly saves after you kill her so if you close the game and redo it the proper mercy way (as hopefully you would) flowery will remember you killed her the first time and taunt you for it showing that
A) he can see past the 4th wall and
B) Saving and reloading are included in the story and are not just video-game mechanics

That's pretty smart if you ask me.

>>43576179
But it refused

>>43576179
>Asgore destroys the mercy button
Oh cool thats neat.
>A second one just pops up out of nowhere.
Uh, if you wanna be a grownup and have your metafuckery, would it really hurt to at least be consistent with your rules? Whatever.

>>43576203
It wasn't a "second one" that just popped out of nowhere. It was the first one's pieces all fixed up. Entirely consistent.

>>43576203
>Pops up out of nowhere
Son did you even look at it
It's all cracked and fucked up, it's clearly the original put back together by your determination

>>43576203
>A second one.
More like you glued it back together, it looks pretty fucked.

>>43576089
>spend a shit ton of turns beating the shit out her
I figured I shouldn't waste turns sparing her after every attack until I got her at least down to 1/3 of her health. Yes, logic says that's probably not the best option in the world, but considering what has occured in the game up until that point, I didn't think I'd have to follow that specific type of logical convention in that context since the game didn't either.

>>43576143
Implementing a forced crit takes away from that. If anything, I'm disappointed because I, myself didn't get a chance to kill her and feel bad about it. The crit removes any accountability I have for my actions (unless I was deliberately trying to kill her)

>>43576055
the game's selling point was the chance to play an RPG with the ability to get through without ever killing anyone. thats what made it different/ interesting. being emotional manipulative like stated earlier in this thread is not what is going on. Unless by emotionally manipulative you mean actually being interested in characters for once.

>>43576213
>>43576220
Sorry, didnt get that far ingame, I gave up because I didnt want to hurt him since Im not a psychopath.
Why would you attack him with a knife and expect him not to die?

Read up what happens afterwards on the internet but they didnt mention it was a patched up button.

>>43576233
I still have no idea how a "forced crit" does anything to reduce your accountability. It happens so far in that you were clearly trying to already kill her anyway.

>>43575685
The skeletons are two characters you meet early in the game and have surprisingly endearing shenanigans with.

There's a "date" scene in there but it's just a joke so, like most game jokes, the fans are eagerly running it into the ground.

Undertale is the most fun if you don't really know where things are going so a lot of people don't want to get real spoilery. You can beat it in an afternoon or two.

>>43576111
I like this post but it is you sir who is the monster.

How could you not realize that you NEEDED to transgress toriel's wishes so that you could eventually spare EVERYONE even flowey and bring peace and prosperity to all of the monsters. Even toriel admits you made the right call by disobeying her.

You have to know when to double down on reversing tropes.

>>43576297
But none of that is obvious at the time.

And besides, nothing in the ruins really progresses until you move in and make the story go forward. Asgore's plan hinges entirely on another human walking out that door and getting captured. As long as you stay within the ruins, the rest of the underground will wait.

So, yes, nothing would actually stop you from staying in there for a few years, growing up until Toriel acknowledges you as an adult instead of a child, THEN leave with her blessing and go meet the others. It's not a choice I would make, sure, but it would be perfectly consistent within the game's setting if it let you go with it.

>>43576256
I've already explained my reasoning. The game incorrectly assumed I was trying to kill her. To be fair, this assumption does have a very low chance at being incorrect - but the fact that is WAS incorrect in my case, made the rest of the meta stuff seem cheap. For the rest of the game it was like the developer assumed all of the carefully placed subversion stuff was impressing me, when really it just made the experience less enjoyable since I already had a "peak behind the curtain", per say.

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>>43576247

>I stopped playing the game because I didn't want to fight the one time the game forces me to

...you are a beautiful person, anon. Perservere. Unlike Toriel, you CAN beat him into submission.

>>43576233
For whatever it's worth, I get you. When I was playing through the only reason I knew not to try to soften Toriel up like a pokemon was a friend had spoiled that for me. There is definitely a frog that tells you someday you'll have to spare someone who's not tagged as spareable, but it takes several spares to start seeing a result and video games have trained us for years that if it doesn't look like what you're doing is working, you should do something else.

Meanwhile she's attacking you and if your dodging skills are fairly good your health stays high and you don't see her attacks start totally missing you on purpose.

I know a lot of people who accidentally killed Toriel, it's just all about missed hints that are understandable to have missed.

>>43576165
because you DO need to play the game to free them,

>Toriel tells you to not move while you're in the ruins
>She's lying, not moving softlocks the game until you progress through the ruins
>Toriel tells you to go to bed
>She's lying, going to bed softlocks the game until you leave your room
>Toriel tells you that you can go through the game without killing her

Fool me once

>>43576336
And I've already said that you were attacking and harming her with lethal force. That's like trying to shoot someone "to subdue": it may well be what you're trying to do, but there's a very high possibility of that going wrong and you cannot really claim you're not responsible for it if it does.

>>43576376
>That's like trying to shoot someone "to subdue"
You mean like what the police do almost every day?
Get a better example there, kiddo. Yours goes against your "logic" entirely.

>>43576393
>You mean like what the police do almost every day?

Yes, and see how that works out for them most of the time?

>>43576373
She doesn't tell you you can go through the game without killing anyone, the author does in the advertising and stuff. Toriel is trying to tell you you have to kill her if you want to proceed, or else give up. Again, defying her is the right choice.

>>43576376
C'mon man, how many video games have you played where there's at least one boss you have to fight but the fight gets called off when their HP gets down to a sliver or after you "beat" them and they're still alive.

People who play rpgs have had way, way, way too many years of immersion in certain conventions for it to a sign of idiocy if they miss one hint that somewhat contradicts another hint.

>>43576403
Yes, it DOES work out for them most of the time. Only 0.3% of shootings are lethal, and most of those were shooting to kill due to the criminal being too dangerous.

>>43576409
Yeah, sure, I mean, I fell for that too - but unlike the other anon, I'm owning up for it instead of doubling down and claiming it's somehow not my fault.

>>43576376
And I've already said the logic at play here conflicts with one another. Logic agrees with you, but the game's logic does not.

>>43576345
I appreciate your understanding immensely, really. And this
>it's just all about missed hints that are understandable to have missed
really hits the nail on the head.

>>43575805
>there are many people who knew they didn't need to kill Toriel but still attacked her because they believed they had to weaken certain monsters in order to spare them.
yet the firs thing you learn is from toriel is talking solves anything.

Honestly why anyone would attack first is beyond me.

>>43576403
Well, they don't get many complains from the criminals over it.

>>43576417
Well, try about a dozen of those 0.3%s when the other person is trying to scorch you with fireballs and shit.

>>43576426
How does the game's logic disagree? Just because it hasn't lethally critted an enemy yet before that point doesn't mean it couldn't do it.

>>43576428
>Select Talk
You can't think of anything
>Spare
"..."
>Toriel still trying to kill you
>Were told early on that sometimes you need to hit enemies before you can spare them
>Only other option is to eat a spider donut

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>>43576428
>yet the firs thing you learn is from toriel is talking solves anything.
>try talking to her
>many times
>"Ironically, talking doesn't seem to be the solution here."

Yeah, guys, this isn't even trying to be /tg/ anymore.

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>>43576345
This.
Up until that point, no enemies had required sparing until after you talked to them, besides Whismur, who was automatically yellow. When Toriel blocked the way, and talking (the thing she told you to always do) failed, I assumed the Mercy button would simply pass your turn as it did previously with monsters like Froggit. I had several health restorative items, so if I ever got low enough where I thought I'd die, I ate them. I never saw her sparing attacks firsthand until my second playthrough after I'd been told about them. Those aren't foolproof, either. One of my friends who was less good at games missed the ribbon as they ran screaming through the ruins, and without it your defense is so low that she drops you from 4 to 0 in one hit, and no mercy comes. I forgot that one frog's hint that you may have to spare a non-yellow monster some day, but I remembered that you could convince them to stop after you weakened them. So, as much as I didn't want to, I fought. After all, how else could you really prove to her that you were strong enough to survive Asgore?

So, I suffered for my decision. I played through the rest of the game, and came out at level 3. The true playthrough was easy since I'd learned nearly all of the peaceful resolutions already. Besides the lab oh my god I didn't see that coming what the FUCK Alphys you shit sandwich
I then made the mistake of doing a genocide run. It was the worst time I had yet. Sure, the fights were the challenge I'd wanted, but....it was a bad time. And Flowey's callouts at the end...I hate that shit, so they only made it worse. I even had a friend watching on stream who hadn't wanted to do the run.

>>43576330
I concede because I would LOVE to do that.

>>43576376
Oh shit, I lethatly tapped her with my toy knife.

Better accept that Im a horrible human bean.

>>43576472
Yeah but at that time you would've encountered enough enemies to think "Well, how do I diplomacy myself out of this?"

>>43576492
>Genocide
>Mistake
>The only actual fun part of Undertale, albeit only 2 fights worth near the end

>>43576529
Yeah well, by that point it's already been well established that you can kill monsters by poking them with a stick.

Fuckers are fragile.

>>43576256
The game allows you to spare enemies after you hit them enough, so as far as you know it IS a valid tactic.
Imagine if you live on the farm and want to move to the city, but your older brother believes that you are not ready so he challenges you to a fist fight, if you lose you stay in home.
Acceptable, you know you can win a fist fight without killing anyone, you've done it before. It is not an irrational thing to think.
You are fighting and hit your brother in the jaw, turns out he has been downplaying how hard he was actually getting hurt from your punches, ending up up in a coma. You family doesn't really blame you and let's you go. They are sad tho'.
You did not strike with killing intent, you just wanted to show them you can handle yourself. It is he who wanted to fight to the last consequences even while being so damn hurt. You would have stopped the fight if you realized how damaged he was at that moment, but he refused to show it.
And suure, you could have taken a beating while avoiding of his attacks. Your brother would have been convinced that you were though enough to survive out there and everyone is happy but how you, realistically, would have known this? What is so out of the ordinary about thinking that your brother would have backed out if he was hurt enough?
Sorry if this is hard to understand, my english could be better.

>>43576540
It all depends on how much emotional manipulation you allowed the game to do. If you ended up breezing through it all without letting it all catch up to you, then you're good. But may whatever god you believe in help you if you ended up truly growing to like Papyrus or Toriel or Undyne or something.

>>43576247
>>43576340
This. I spent hours dieing to asgore thinking that If he killed me enough times but saw that I wouldn't stop coming back he would give up. I finally tried to look up how many times I would have to die for my plan to work and found out I had to hurt him. That was honestly the most defeated I felt playing this game.

>>43576489
I was really hoping to have a discussion about bosses with meta-attacks but...

>>43576571
They're just pixels. They don't have feelings, and don't care whether or not you have them either.

The writing feels like it was done by a 3rd grader or somebody in remedial classes. If you felt anything other than pity for the "creator" of it, you need a good dose of testosterone.

>>43576581
Yeah, I mean, that fight is legitimately the only place where I can find a flaw in this game (besides graphics or some shit). After seeing just how badly fighting Toriel turned out, it was -really- hard to raise my hand against Asgore. I knew it was a bad idea from the start, and then it turned out to be just what I had to do? Fuck that.

(The fight was still awesome, though. Music was great, there was a lot of story and tension behind it, etc.)

>>43576581
You see anon, attacking is stupid and you always have another choice.

Unless the game just gives you no other option.

But you have to make sure that there's not actually another option thats just a bit hidden.
Attacking asgore is totally fine though because you have to.
So you can spare him after you beat him.

But dont try that on other monsters, cause that would make you a horrible human beeing.


By the way this isnt because of limitations of beeing a game and preprogrammed options, nope. If you attack toriel you're responsible yourself. Its YOUR fault. If you attack asgore though its kay. Cause its different. And stuff.

>>43576605
It's cool that you feel that way, but please try and be considerate about the fact that other people might come to a different conclusion and that they are not necessarily wrong about it. Claiming your opinion is the absolute truth, and insulting those that would disagree, is not nice.

>>43576605
>They're just pixels
Chara pls go

>>43576620
Asgore is the best final boss fight in the game.
The other are just cutscenes.

>>43576552
>The game allows you to spare enemies after you hit them enough, so as far as you know it IS a valid tactic.
Talking is way more valid and faster.

>>43576635
I don't care about being nice, not even when I am correct. Especially not when I am correct.

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>>43576635
>please no bully
>I really liked those meme skeletons come on guys
lol

>>43576648
Well, then you are incorrect.

>>43576605
What if I have the kind of body that naturally favors estrogen over testosterone?

>>43576605
> They're just pixels

Nigga in an alternate reality I'm just pixels.

>>43576658
Then you're a fucking faggot.

>>43576656
Does anyone even know what a meme is anynore

>>43576658
Then you are allowed to cry. Us men do not have the luxury, so consider yourself lucky and privileged for it.

>>43576656
>bringing up "meme" in Undertale
Opinion discarded.

>>43576627
Attacking monsters until they give up IS a valid strategy. Pointed out by the same NPCs that tells you to spare even when it looks like it has no effect.
One makes you proactive, the other reactive, tell me anon. What is the one that makes the most sense to you? Without the meta-knowledge, that is.

I don't know if you talked to every NPC in the Ruins, but one of the frogs says something about yellow names and sparing. This guy also makes a hint for Toriel's battle: "One day, you might want to try sparing monsters even if their name isn't yellow". Also, it's stated several times that sparing means saying you don't want to fight. Pay attention, guys.

>>43576672
People will stop saying meme when you stop getting so triggered by it.

>>43576687
And one of the frogs says that sometimes you have to lower an enemy's health to be able to spare them.

>>43576672
Nope, meme means joke now.
Forget that it's an actual critization of human society as a whole, it's just a name for joking.

>>43576689
"meme" is one of the two criticisms about Undertale you are not allowed to bring up, the other being "shit graphics".

It's like the game's equivalent for Godwin's Law: you lose immediately if you do it.

>>43576687
Try reading the thread

>>43576672
Everything is now memes, and through this, nothing is memes.

>>43576647
In the ruins? Kinda, proably an extra turn. Or none.
AND there are options in the act menu that won't work until their HP is low.
Once again, the game is telling you attacking is a valid action.
Hell, you don't even have to spare ANYTHING other than bosses and a few other enemies. You can be true pacifist and still run from everything.

>>43574801
It's funny you think he wouldn't just abuse whatever system you were in.

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>>43576620
>>43576627
It's all right, though - Asgore really deserves it.

>>43574616
>your party is stopped in the last hallway to the throne room by sans

I turn around, walk back to asgore's house, and cry myself to sleep.

>>43576084
Too bad you didn't use that move first, kiddo
>>43574801


Besides, its not like he cant dodge the attack anyways. The FIGHT option never misses by chance, and you only kill him by breaking the system by attacking twice your turn. He can basically dodge any normal means of attack.

>>43576701
Good thing I wasn't critiquing the game with my post then, right?

And you can't just say "shit graphics can't be used as a legitimate criticism because I said so". The graphics are bad. They can be extremely inconsistent (noticeably with the shop areas), there's no details in half of the long ass corridors that the game likes to throw at you every 3 maps so they end up looking terribly bland, and there's mixels and rixels everywhere that just look atrocious and could have easily been turned into actual animations had the creator put some effort into doing so.

>>43576751
I'm not saying graphics aren't shit, either. Because you're right - they pretty much are. I'm just saying that good graphics can't carry a bad game, nor can shit graphics ruin a good one.

Ultimately, graphics are just skin deep. You can enjoy watching really beautiful landscapes and enjoying well-animated sprites, but it's not really that important in the end.

>>43576111
Goatmother has no right to hold you hostage in the underground for the rest of your life, though. You should be free to at least try and escape the underground. Also, reminder that killing certain characters (Undyne for example) is entirely justified.

Not that I actually did kill any of them, I'm not a pussy, after all.

>>4357670
The game didn't make the memes, that was the community. And disliking something BECAUSE of the fandom tend to be looked down upon. Disliking the game itself is fine tho', no matter what they say.
The graphics are more of an iffy thing. They are what they are intended to be, but you are also allowed to dislike that. Claiming they are objectively bad, eh...

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>>43574861
He's a boss in Undertale.

Hardest fucking battle I've seen in a game for a long time. I can't beat this fucker.

>>43576722
Yet the game heavily emphasizes on talking your way trough.

Really it's just you feeling mad for being retarded, because I have never heard anyone bitch about this before.

>>43576779
>Also, reminder that killing certain characters (Undyne for example) is entirely justified.

Nor does the game even fling that much shit at you if you do so. It acknowledges that you were just defending yourself and that no one was really expecting anything more.

You're allowed to kill a few guys. It's just when you're going all murdermode that the game begins to blame you, and at that point, you kind of do deserve it.

>>43576804
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFnUCNIStRw
He's not very difficult.

>>43576772
Good graphics can't carry a terrible game, but could definitely hide the flaws of a mediocre game from the eyes of an inexperienced customer. Graphics are around the same tier of importance as story, and considering the story/implementation of the story is a significant part of Undertale's success and marketing, I think it's fair to criticize the graphics for being less than stellar.

>>43576165
If you never play, eventually another child will fall down, get killed by Asgore, the barrier will get broken, the monsters will go fight humans and both Asgore and the human side will extract steep losses of life.
Also Sans goes more insane because of Flowey's resets.

>>43575845
Nice meme

>>43576829
Fair enough, although I still think the modern AAA games industry is taking the concept of awesome high-definition photorealism a touch too far.

>>43576492
I love that the game calls you out if you just watch the genocide run on a stream or youtube.

>>43576862
Heh, it's funny because it is literally a meme.

>>43576817
I'm glad they used Megalovania, he's really the only one who deserves it.

>>43576829
I can't really agree, Undertale is drawn from the same threads as the old generations of game, using anything less then the old pixelated style... I don't think it would have added anything to be honest, and worse it might have taken away from it. There's a beauty in simplicity. But that's just my opinion.

>>43576877
>Undertale is drawn from the same threads as the old generations of game, using anything less then the old pixelated style...

I don't know about that, really. Undertale's graphics would've been pretty bad even in SNES era. I'm not bothered by pixels, it's just that these pixels are ugly too.

>>43576864
I wouldn't get too worked up about it if I were you. It's a problem but I don't think it's too significant. Have a good one.

>>43576877
I don't think you understand my complaints. You're addressing the basic aesthetic of the game - which only my point about the bare hallways really addresses. Even if you don't agree on that I'm sure you could see the dual side of the coin in how boring the level design is.

>>43576891
As I said, just my opinion and ultimately this isn't something that people should decide on their own.

>>43576581
I felt the same.

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>>43576877
I agree with you that there is a beauty in simplicity, but there's a contrast in the quality of the pixelwork in places. The first shop you find stands out in my mind because of the level of detail and how well the warmth of it is conveyed, etc. Compare that to a lot of the backgrounds you wander around in and they look very bare by comparison.

You might argue that the bleakness reaches a point of stylistic significance on the way to the last boss fight, but I think inconsistency is a legitimate criticism.

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Having just wandered over here from /vg/, I am impressed. Never change, /tg/.

>>43576805
My first run was a pacifist one. Capped with a true pacifist. No genocide one yet.
I had to find out this on my own. My only complain about the game is that bosses tend to turn everything on its head without giving you enough to go by. Fortunately, dying and respawning is not inmerssion breaking in this game so it is okay. My first run was pathetic.
You have to admit that without metagaming the game gives plenty of mixed signals, that is, if you have played the game without meta knowledge.
>You have to talk your way out of every situation WITHOUT resorting to violence
>Resorting to violence is okay and without consequences, tho' and a comlpetely valid way of solving your problems
>WHY DID YOU USE VIOLENCE? HAVE YOU HEARD NOTHING OF WHAT I'VE SAID?

>>43576874
>Anything I don't like that is popular=meme

>>43576909
>>43576926

Of course I see it, and I've got no problem with what your saying.

>>43576941
Frankly, the only time the mixed signals got really bad, at least for me, was comparing Toriel and Asgore fights.

>>43576936
We wouldn't have to take these topics to /tg/ if the /vg/ thread hadn't instantly devolved in to depravity and shitposting.

>>43576944
Wow, way to be retarded mang.

No it's a meme because it's a memetic response he picked up from another. I seriously don't think it's one guy going around saying basically the same thing one multiple websites.

You fucking garbage bin of dumb ideas.

>>43576111
I went back to bed when Toriel asked, repeatedly, vaguely hoping there was some sort of secret "ending" there. After I won the passive-aggressive staring contest and she left, I went to look for her before leaving the ruins. She's by the flowers you started on.

I don't know what that says about me.

>>43576959
To try and drag this back into /tg/ territory again, I think a meta element could be really interesting in trpgs. The problem is that instead of a computer you have the GM and instead of one player you have a whole group of them, and (as can be seen from the varying reactions people have to Undertale) this kind of meta doesn't work for everybody.

So far, I think the "boss attacks exactly every 60 seconds regardless of what the players are doing" thing sounded like fun because it makes combat frantic again when people are used to being able to take their time, strategize, etc.

>>43577010
>To try and drag this back into /tg/ territory again,

Aaand with that, you have killed the thread. Nice going.

You gain 5 EXP
Your LOVE has increased

>>43576147
he does have stats though hp1 def 1 attack 1

Literally the weakest monster.

he just cheats like fuck.

>>43576958
Undyne was worse in my case.
An enemy that you would have to escape from before her would have been really nice.
>Karateka with a fish head
>ACT options are: threaten, mock and run from
>Threaten and mock do nothing or just make things worse.
>Run forces the enemy to "go after you" making his attacks less dangerous
>Run enough times and the enemy gives up
Now you know fish people get tired easily leaving them weak and the idea of running from get implanted in your head.
I mean, two charactes pretty much explain how Metatton fight work way before you actually fight him.

>>43576739
He can dodge anything once per turn, and ONLY once per turn. He's not going to dodge four characters all acting on the same tick (which is the turn equivalent), especially not while he's in the process of gloating about how he's not going to let you hit him. And he ALWAYS responds to an enemy's first attack by gloating about how he's not going to get hit.

>>43577056
In genocide mode, almost everyone effectively has 1hp, and his attacks aren't weak; "inflicts poison, ignores damage resistance" would be worth trading a lot of dps for in most games.

I feel like in order to properly translate Sans sidestepping all of your attacks is for the DM to ignore all attack rolls and just say they all miss.

>"What are you doing with those dice, bucko?"

the encounter ends when someone physically knocks his figure over.

>>43577152
Or throws something at the GM

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>>43577152
Holy shit that sounds amazing.

>>43577152
The DM physically picks up your dice and puts it down leaving the 1 on top.

>>43577208
When Sans does his "literally nothing" attack, the DM just takes the dice and won't give them to you.

>>43576165
That's also a point that the game brings up. Multiple times.

You don't need to play the game. Why not just quit?

>>43577227
Then and only then, you can do what >>43577152 suggested

>>43577229
Well, Flowey does say he'll take over if you give up.

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>>43577152
You know in your heart that if someone did this, the players would lose, the story would get greentexted here, and we'd all call the DM shit.

>>43577229
Because you're too determined.

Doesn't it only do that on genocide run, anyway? Then it's not just "Why don't you stop playing?" and more "Why don't you stop fucking killing everyone, you monster?".

>>43577247
If there was a party that played badly enough to get Sans involved, and managed to beat him, it would end with the DM burning all the character sheets, all his campaign notes, even the setting books.

>>43577152
>>43577227
THIS.

This is what I've been waiting for all thread.

>>43574639

Is Megalovania the best boss music of this generation? If not, it's certainly a contender.

>>43577247
This is pretty much the inevitable outcome of someone trying to translate this fight to the table.

There's only so much you can do before you just piss people off.

>>43577313
Death by Glamor, Asgore, and Hopes and Dreams are also pretty high up on the list.

>>43577273
Well such a DM would surely be full of D E T E R M I N A T I O N .

>>43577325
>>43577313

Spider Dance and Battle Against a True Hero are also pretty damn good.

>>43577313
Maybe this makes me a pleb, but my favorite version is still the one from Homestuck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1p0bLkNGa0

>>43577313
>>43577325
>>43577352
Basically, if anyone made a list of best boss themes of our generation, just about every boss theme of Undertale would end up on that list, with Megalovania on top.

Firstly, playing an Undertale RPG where the rules are made to be bent (if not entirely broken) sounds awesome. The players would have to figure out abstract solutions to encounters that they would normally beat with "Hit monster until it dies." If done well, it could be a really cool campaign.

Secondly,
>Start listening to Megalovania a bunch
>Pretty cool song
>I wonder what the actual fight's like?
>Don't have the guts to actually do the genocide run
>Watch someone fight Sans on youtube instead
>Get to the end
>heh, didja really thing you would be able- [slashes chest]
>Regretting my choice to watch this
>welp. i'm going to grillby's.
>The feels, man, the feels
>papyrus, do you want anything?
>Close tab
>Sit in silence for a moment
>Start actually bawling my eyes out like the emotional baby I am

Listening to Megalovania will never be the same for me.

>>43577391
I began to tear up when he offered to spare you. It was just a ruse, maybe, but man did his speech hit hard.

>>43577405
Oh yea, most people never do it but those that do, well...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBfv3cYJBEY

>>43577434
They get slam-jammed?

>>43577313
>Is Megalovania the best boss music of this generation? If not, it's certainly a contender.
It was ruined by being in Homestuck (and the theme of one of the worst characters in Homestuck) first, for me.

Yes I know it was for an Earthbound mod "first", I am using "first" to mean "before".

>>43577445
Yup. They get dunked on. Hard.

Rolled 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 = 25 (25d1)

>>43577405
get dunkt on
>1-99 sans wins 100 chara wins

>>43577247

story time, /tg/.
>endgame
>be fully decked out party capable of destroying anything
>about to fight BBEG
>encounter level 1 skeleton before big door
>"If you go any further you're gonna have a bad time."
>lolwhat
>Paladin tries to smite him
>"It doesn't work on the skeleton."
>everyone gets paranoid now
>party casts detect fucking everything
>"It's a 1st level lawful cool skeleton."
>at this point we know the DM is fucking with us
>unload everything on the skeleton
>dodges and resists every spell
>DM physically flips over attack dice to read 1 every time
>DM is a fucking edgelord and keeps spouting stock insults and moralizing dialogue
>"You people are the real monsters"
>"Killing everything you come accross"
>paladin and LG cleric rolls eyes
>DM rolls a 1d4 to calculate damage
>"oh okay this is just a time waster before the big bad right"
>hahaha no
>DM pulls out an entire fucking bag of d4s
>a small pouch just clacking menacingly
>feel like I'm playing 40k as I watch him empty the bag and count totals
>probably 30d4
>hit everyone for average of the damage
>this shit goes on forever
>DM still fucking going with the fucking morality speech
>at this point we're looking at each other and plotting murder
>builds up to some spectacular attack as he describes the skeleton getting tired
>"My special attack. Here goes nothing."
>Silence
>"That's it. Nothing. You don't get a turn."
>takes away all our dice and smiles like a maniac
>we give each other a "is irl murder a free action?" look
>about to get up and leave
>bard reaches over the table and tips the figure out of frustration
>"Encounter over."

then we get steamrolled by the BBEG because we wasted all our shit on attempting to kill the spooky skeleton man.

we had a very bad time.

>>43577452
That's ad hominem, though, and inherently a pretty bad argument. A song being in a shitty webcomic doesn't ruin the song being used in some other thing later.

I heard it in Homestuck first too, and I actually liked Homestuck back then. Even so, now I fully associate it with Undertale and Sans. You can get over it too.

>>43577056
This is how GURPS chargen went for Sans.

>Implying he would do more than write "Sans" on the sheet and call it a day.

"So you only have 1 on all stats?"
"Yup."
"And you've taken the flaws... lazy, boneheaded, literally the weakest, glass body..."
"Yup."
"You however are guaranteed to do a single point of damage on an attack?"
"Yup."
"Eh, alright then. How many times did you take Extra Attack?"
"Thirty."

>>43577473
But there's not supposed to be a BBEG. Just a couple more wimps that die in one hit.

>>43577480
"I can't properly enjoy this good thing because it's inextricably tied to this bad thing in my mind, especially since it was specifically intended to be inextricably tied to that character in that thing" isn't ad hominem at all.

>>43577255
If you give up the fight against Sans, he literally tells you not to reload your save if you actually meant to give up.

>>43577495
>43577473
kinda simulates what would happen if an incompetent DM would shoehorn a meta boss fight into an otherwise vanilla campaign though

>>43577056
He's a fucking time wizard

He doesn't need stats when he can stick his skeletal dick into the timeline and completely obliterate the fourth wall.

>>43577504
It kind of is, though, especially since it wasn't even tied on Vriska in the first place.

More like, Megalovania always shows up when an evil asshole is doing more evil shit despite being given every reason in the world to quit. It played at the end of Halloween Hack first. Then in Homestuck, it came up both for Vriska and Bec Noir. And now, in Undertale, it plays for you. Because it's your theme, not Sans's.

>>43577482
Sans [-217]:
Attributes: HT 1 [-90], ST 1 [-90]
Disadvantages: Laziness [-10], Vulnerability (Everything, x4) [-80]
Advantages: M.U.N.C.H.K.I.N [53]

>>43577562
Damn son, that makes the whole 'song that may or may not play when you fight Sans' thing even more neato.

>>43577092
I think the point of Sans is a fuck you to a level grinder. Your stats are 99 in everything at the point you reach Sans. Of course the fucker uses poison and ignores invisibility frames making your defence useless.

>>43577473
Man, here's what I would do. The moment the DM starts metagaming, I'll just go

> I enter the BBEG's lair
> Um... no, you can't, the skeleton stops you
> What skeleton?
> This one *points at figure*
> This is just a plastic figure on a table. There is no skeleton. Do any of you guys see a skeleton? I don't see any skeletons.
> You are hit for X damage.
> No I am not. There is nothing to hurt me here.

And so on. He'll give up eventually, I'm pretty determined. Plus, I find it fun to try and out-meta guys like him.

>>43577562
Well, Sans is the hero in the genocide route. Can't even argue that, it's objectively true.

Also heavily implied that he was the only thing stopping Flowey, as well.

>>43577620
I don't think walking on table is acceptable thing to do

>>43577616
Genocide isn't done by accident, mate.

>>43577656
Maybe we should just play the game then?

>>43577562
Sans' battle theme is pretty good as well. Suits him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41YOknSl0zw

>>43577694
Yeah, up to that point I was wondering where the Toby Fox I knew had gone.

>>43574616
>the shilling is on /tg/
Please fuck off with your overrated indie bullshit.

>>43574616
I tackle the DM to the ground, take the character sheet, tear it apart and strike off his name from the campaign.

Fucking metagaming cunts.

>>43577649
>heavily implied
Am I blind?

>>43577482
He also seems to have pretty strong telekinesis.

>>43577805
He's pulling shit out of his ass I think. Flowey is afraid of Sans since Sans always kills Flowey if they meet. He probably figures out Flowey is the time anomalie or something. But I'm pretty sure the main reason Flowey couldnt get the 6 souls is because Asgore never lets Flowey near them. Flowey also cant beat Asgore so its kind of hard to get to them.

>>43577818
Don't forget time shenanigans.

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>>43576877
>he's really the only one who deserves it.
Realllllllly?

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If you fight with your soul, does that mean it flies around outside your body?

>>43577916
Given how the bosses manipulate the controls for your soul, it's entirely possible.

>>43577880
Vriska isn't an Undertale character, she doesn't count.

>>43577325
>Death by Glamor
My favourite of the game by a fair margin. Have a cool cover of it as a reward for having excellent taste.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHhe8begOQk

>>43577916
I think it's just a metaphor.

>>43578011
Well, I think it's a good metaphor.

>>43577916
>*Star Platinum is judging you.

>FIGHT
>ACT
>ITEM
>MERCY

>>43577916
What? You thought all the posing in Mettaton's fight was just for laughs?

>>43577916
>>43578041
We have gone from vaguely /tg/ to blatantly /v/ and now we're approaching /a/.

Can we end this thread yet?

>>43578100
no

>>43577741
Oh please.

I would never wish anyone the terror of spending hard earned money for trivial bullshit.

Everyone go pirate undertale, it is a good game.

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>>43578100
Not until we somehow start discussing the economic and social implications of the spider bake sale, as applied to the world market.

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>>43578121
And here I was having my hopes up that everyone could fucking ignore the troll.

You moron.

>>43576605
>They're just pixels. They don't have feelings, and don't care whether or not you have them either.

and characters in books are just ink on paper. and those in movies are just actors playing pretend, what's your point?

>>43578011
The game does bring up how humans have physical bodies but monsters have coalesced emotions or something. Would make sense that monsters can directly attack a human soul.

>>43577313

Bonetrousle is better.

That said, the Dark Souls series (including Bloodborne) are probably the best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BncJ1yX-BgQ

>>43577313

But it's the worst boss track in the game, if only because every other track is fucking fantastic.

>>43577313
does It Has To Be This Way count

>>43578144
:^)

>>43578309
I bet you're just the original troll pointing out your super-awesome post in hopes of more baits.

>>43578336
How do you know that you aren't just me doing the same?

Have you ever been so far as have decided ever to want to do more look like?

>>43575415

>You're fucking stabbing her with a (toy) knife.

You really undid what little point you had by drawing attention to the fact it's TOY fucking knife.

>>43577152

Knowing one of my players, that win condition would probably happen by, like, the second round.

>>43578401
monsters are made of magic and deeply tied to emotion, so it really doesn't matter what weapon you're using. if you didn't pick up the knife you'd still do huge damage.

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>>43578401
It makes the acquisition of a real knife that much more of a threat.

>>43578401
Wouldn't have mattered. It was the killer intent behind it that did Toriel in.

>>43578554
But most of us didn't WANT to kill her! We were striking to subdue!

I think you guys are overthinking the scripted crit in the Toriel fight

It's a cheap "sad" moment, yes, but its also done that was specifically because first-time players are almost guaranteed to run into it. This way, players are prompted to reload their saves, and are introduced to the fact that SAVE/LOAD is an actual narrative element in addition to being a gameplay mechanic

A lot of the delivery of the plot relies on Flowey revealing that SAVE is something that exists within the narrative at that key junction of the plot, and without forcing a Toriel death in the first encounter the average person doesn't learn about the fourth-wall breaking stuff pretty much until the last few fights of the game.

>>43578635
>that was
*that way

>>43578635
Can confirm. I managed to spare Toriel on the first try, and until I saw the videos for Sans' fight I thought Flowey was the only one who broke the fourth wall.

>>43578657
Wait, forgot about Asgore and Frisk

Actually, the way the Toriel fight goes is backed up by in game lore. Apparently, a monster's body is mostly made up of magic and its physical strength is defined more by will than actual makeup. When a monster loses it's will to fight it's attacks and defenses become weaker.

>>43578401
Monsters are pretty pussy ass tier.

Really, an adult getting into the monster world would be an unstoppable beast.

>>43578635
>Reload save
I didn't do that.
What I did was i went on to slaughter everyone else.

Because you know fuck them.

>>43578777
Hi Chara.

>>43578728
To add to this, during the Asgore fight, as you wittle him down your last few strikes do significantly more damage as well.

>>43575959
she did it herself

>>43578813
I completely missed that connection. Thanks for enlightening me anon.

>>43578813
Not to mention, sometimes a dialog option will change the defense or attack of a monster.

>>43578806
What?

>>43578927
> didn't slaughter everyone else

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Mfw this entire thread

>>43578984
I did though and I don't get the reference. I killed retard skeleton, the magical fish girl, the flower.

I wasn't paying attention admittedly because I was pissed about the fact that Tor died.

>>43579073
>Flex

A subversion of player expectations is not a flaw in a game. Mentioning the frogs is stupid because you're supposed to compliment them then spare them. The game just didn't lock you out of the peaceful option against the starter enemies. There is a pacifist, neutral, and genocide route to the game, and stabbing someone until they surrender is not a pacifist method. It is a deliberate design choice to the game that sets the tone for the entire series. Talking about having to attack Asgore is similarly misguided, because the TRUE Pacifist ending can be done by doing all the side quests and the fight gets interupted by Toriel. You are NEVER required to attack anyone. You don't even need to shoot off the robot's arms, although that ends the fight easier. It's intentional that beating up your enemies will lead you to the neutral route on your first attempt.

This is fucking /tg/ and we're supposed to be good at roleplaying.

>>43579081
Literally Hitler

>>43579081
You didn't get Sans did you?

>>43578894
This too. Pacifist run and do all the talks with Asgore? His will to fight goes down and takes some of his atk and def with it.

>>43578777
So really, you got what you wanted out of the game?

Really I'd say your loss, since genocide run is much more fun when you actually know the characters.

>>43579081
>he didn't kill everyone
>doesn't know you have to kill and keep killing
>kill the random encounters till they stop spawning
You are a failure at genocide.

>>43579112
>You are NEVER required to attack anyone.

Yes, you are. You need to beat up Asgore once before you can load the game and do the true pacifist ending.

>>43579193
>You need to beat up Asgore
Flowey too. You NEED to attack in that fight in order to get the True Pacifist ending afterwards.

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>>43579102
Bitch i will cut you muscles aren't cute

>all his dice pools are made of d8s instead of d6s.
>during your first attack on each turn you use d5s instead of d6s.
>once hes below 0 initiative he still takes a turn at the bottom of the pass as if he had 1 initiative every pass until everyone is at 0.
>he rolls a die whenever anyone spends edge and on a success he takes an immediate turn

problem, omae?

>>43579285
Listen here, chummer-
No Grillby's for you.

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>>43579277
You think you can fight me? I mean, do you even lift?

>>43579285
>He still counts as getting a success for every die roll of 5+

>>43578428

Still a moot point considering the contect of the point. This information wasn't presented until after the battle.

>>43579260
Not if you just skip the neutral ending and go straight to the pacifist ending.

>>43579493
You don't get the phone call you need for Pacifist until after a neutral ending.

>>43579493
Can't do that.

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>>43575384
>hurting goat mom
>ever

Someone wasn't determined enough to keep trying mercy.

>>43579548
But you can do a first time pacifist run.

>>43576256
God dammit, I was fucking roleplaying when I fought Toriel.

She literally said that we had to prove we could survive out there, so I thought I had to show her my fighting chops before I could spare her. I thought I was doing what she wanted. At this point in the game we have no idea how vastly superior human souls are to monster souls and that even a kid could be threatening enough to wipe them all out. As far as I could tell, the giant adult animal lady could take a couple bumps from a plastic knife.

Is like, sparring not a concept to you guys or what?

>>43579576
No, you cannot.

>>43579515
Is the neutral ending the one with Flowey as the final boss?

>>43576376
We're a fucking kid with a plastic knife, at this point in the game we have no idea how powerful humans are compared to monsters, and she fucking asks you to prove you can defend yourself out there before she'll let you go.

It's easy to see how somebody in a roleplaying mood would then decide to fight her to low health, to prove you can defend yourself, like she wanted. "

But naaaawww... there are tons of dumbasses like you fighting a fake moral battle to feel superior over a video game.

>>43579576
You can BE a pacifist on your first run, but you don't get a certain phone call and then do certain color coded things in color coded slots. Thus you default a neutral ending.

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>>43579346
Yes

>>43579633
Well, there is the whole thing about frisk being possessed by chara who had somehow become a manifestation of pure malevolence at that point and wanted to corrupt frisk and devour his soul.

>>43579576
No you can't. You literally cannot get the pacifist ending without getting a neutral ending first, because you cannot get the phone call to unlock the events at True Lab until you push Ultra Flowey's shit in.

Sure, you "don't have to destroy anyone", but that's because the choice of words deliberately weasels around the fact that you still have to kick two asses minimum.

>>43579633
>>43579667
And that's how you find out just how weak monsters are. Be more careful next time.

>>43579664
Yes. You get different credits and stuff depending on how you acted in your neutral run. The actual pacifist ending is not that.

>>43579685
No..you can pull a full pacifist on your first run. It just takes you actually exploring.

>>43579695
Actually, come to think of it, that's probably why the crit happens. Chara's Influence.

Spooky.

>>43579720
No. You can't. See >>43579700

>>43579720
No, Toby knew it was important to see the neutral ending first, so he set it up so you wouldnt get the undyne-alphys phonecall until after you complete the flowey boss and reload.

>>43579744
You're wrong though. The only thing you need to get full pacifist is to go on all three dates and investigate the true lab. The phone call papyrus gives you happens on your first or tenthrun.

>>43579716
Thanks anon. Just wanted to get a feel for how many endings I have left to achieve.

>>43579791
But you can't go on all three dates and investigate the true lab because Undyne won't give you the letter unless you've kicked the shit out of Asgore and Flowey.

>>43579792
Well, if you got the one you mentioned? Then you have two remaining, a shit ton more if you count every credit scene where they tell you the aftermath. Or just one if you aren't a bad person.

>>43579791
The date chain stops after Undyne if you haven't gotten a neutral clear yet. You need a phone call that doesn't happen on zero clears in order to get the date with Alphys.

>>43579633
Yep.

Frisk is just really strong compared to Toriel. You might not have intended to kill her, but the intent to fight was enough to do it.

It was your mistake. An easy mistake to make, but that doesn't really wash the blood off your hands.

>>43579816
I've gotten the neutral and pacifist ending.

Unfortunately, this also means I've had a chance to enjoy the characters. Murder-stabbing them will not be fun.

>>43579909
Quite the contrary, murder-stabbing them will never be more fun than now.

>>43579909
They are degenerates. Better off dead than alive. You are doing them a favour.

Always remember: The world does not need useless things. The world only needs beautiful things.

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>>43579991
Some of the monsters are beautiful.