Now that the dust settled and everyone got it out of their systems,

>>43535140
its a success

its a failure

/thread

I think it's neat, but really would have prefered it somehow exist alongside WHFB. It's not really a replacement for Fantasy in tone or in function, and while I kind of like it on both a fluff and crunch perspective, I don't like having my game of choice executed and gutted to make it happen.

>>43535140
>Now that the dust settled

This should be an insta-ban phrase.

>>43535244
What do you have against dust?

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>>43535392

Everything!

>>43535159
>Retarded answer
>Thread/ing yourself

Kill yourself

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>>43535417
Well have I got news for you

>>43535140
How does the lack of a points system work?

>>43536164
It doesn't, as don't unit size or spam limits, you have to houserule or gentlemanly agree your way with the opponent.

>>43535140
The game is obviously not a success, it can be fun but it doesn't have the same attractiveness of a system able to have at least a semblance of competitiveness, the miniatures and the fluff are the true focus and selling factors of AoS, people play to use their miniatures more than the previous stance of paint the miniatures to play the game, now.
The books so far are devoid of any redeeming quality to justify the price: the fluff is barebones or absent and repeated multiple times to occupy space, the art despite increasing in quantity drastically decreased in quality and the rules are free anyway, so the books won't be, and in fact aren't, getting bought.

For the miniatures, we'll see, the quality of sculpt is nice, but the price are ever increasing and the design choices are questionable, the fluff is already heading into asspulls direction.

It seems that the release of the game has led many independent stores to ditch GW completely, leaving less and less "recruitment spots": The decreasing in number and size GW stores and the conservative hobby groups.

Nor the premises or the expectations are good enough, we'll see if the miniatures alone manage to keep the boat afloat.

>>43536164

It really doesn't.

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>>43535140
>proper discussion about Age of Sigmar.
>Age of Sigmar
>proper discussion
I'm afraid not

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>>43535417
You. You need to stop. Please.

>>43536600
Can't have it on Whineseer, they don't like saying anything positive about AoS

Can't have it in /AoS/ they treat ANY form of criticism as "shitposting".

So where can we discuss this?

>>43535140
>What is /tg/'s opinion on the game and new setting?

It made me like Chaos a lot. I hope it consumes the new world and eradicates this travesty.

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>>43535140

The non-Holy non-Roman Empire is tragically gone, all the old races have stupid new names and the world itself is like some sort of unholy mutation between Warhammer 40,000, Planescape and Spelljammer (nothing wrong with those three individually). Stormcast Eternals are just Space Marines not in space.

I guess some people like it, but it is just not for me. I like plague-ridden peasants and corrupt nobles more than these celestial knights with golden masks.

>>43537073
>>Can't have it in /AoS/ they treat ANY form of criticism as "shitposting".

False, criticism are welcome, just make sure you get something new. Repeating the same thing for 5 months, sound nothing but shitposting.

>>43536379


You sir, nailed it, so to speak!
It will be very interesting if GW can keep the boat afloat, as you say, with the miniatures alone.
And in a hobby where more and more people play "all gray" (just try to encourage /tg/ to paint their fucking miniatures, and you will get a rape train on you with angry teens, trying to blame others for their laziness), its even more interesting now that its all about the models.

I personally think GW did wrong by advancing the story after the end times. It would have suited way better to say "ok, so thats the end times. Warhammer as you know it is dead. We will put out one last, free of charge, copy of re-visited army books and rules. And thats it, so long and thanks for all the fish". Then go ahead to make a NEW game with the AoS rules.

>>43537073
You can discuss AoS in the generals no problem provided you dont try to come in and say the game is shit over and over. Which you do. We are there to discuss it, how to play it and how to improve it. Take shittalking to whineseer and circle jerk with those 4 posters that ruin every thread even remotely related to AoS.

>>43537164
Actually, Empire got merged with Bretonnia to form Armies of Azyrheim.

They just don't have a battletome yet, bu tthe setting is 6 months old, dude. Wait.

>>43536379
>art is less quality

What? I disagree and many people do. You're applying objectivity to a subjective medium. Stop it.

>price

Then why did the Saurus get upped from 16 to 20 per box and TG from 10 to 15?

>fluff

So, 34 years of WHFB just came into being? You do know 1st and 2nd edition WHFB had little to no fluff, right?

>books not selling an indicator of success

Fuck. This is what it's come to. Scrabbling to find excuses. Well, guess Tau aren't a success cause their CE book didn't sell :^)

>Fluff is barebones or absent and repeated multiple times

Source? I'm sure you have this backed up by something. I'll even give you posting two pictures as proof if you want. I'm THAT kind.

>>43537073
No, repeating the same shit over and over for 6 months is shitposting. See the guy I replied to first.

>No Fluff: Check
>Bad Fluff: Check
>Bad Art: Check
>Expensive Modes: Check
>Non-needed books not selling = failure: Check
>FLGS are dead: Check


AoS is just shitposting fuel and it shits this board up even worse.

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>>43537457
>>art is less quality
>What? I disagree and many people do. You're applying objectivity to a subjective medium. Stop it.
Look at pic related and tell me it doesn't look worse than most of WHFB's art. I mean, sure it's not the actually-worse-than-Hitler tier people claim it to be, but it's far from an improvement

>>43535140
Im confused about the setting now, i know it takes places in a realm of each magic type, but on that slam dunk map thing, where are they?

>>43535140
It's a randumb skirmish beer and pretzel game replacing a autism block shuffling beer and pretzels game. The later has been discontinued even if it was one of the best Fantasy IP in the world and that a decent ruleset would have been enough to revitalize it.

The old player base is mad as fuck and it's understandable. A huge waste altogether.

>>43537434
Why is AoS so tedious to play, even compared to WHFB 8th ed which was bloated as fuck ?

>>43535140
a simple ruleset meant to bring fantasy more towards 40K. Destroyed an amazing world to replace it with a confusing one. I understand why people are mad, I would've been too if I wasn't just sad about it. They could've just made better rules without all the dumbfuck new fluff. Also relies heavily on people not being dicks so can't be played by most the people that are into Warhammer

>>43537847
> Also relies heavily on people not being dicks so can't be played by most the people that are into Warhammer.

Sad but true.

>>43537574
>but on that slam dunk map thing, where are they?

It's the realm of Azyr.

>>43537457
Fuck off, Carnac.

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If anyone doesn't mind, I will post more Sigmar art.

>>43536164
Don't play if you can't find someone you trust not to be a dick.
I don't play but not because I can't find non dick players, I just don't like how the setting hasn't been fleshed out yet and like having my money.

It let's me run my Army of slayers.

So it's automatically better than WHFB 8th edition.

>>43537504
Looks about on par with most of the post-6E art.

Only good 8e art ever was in the Dwarf Army book.

>>43537457
>You're applying objectivity to a subjective medium. Stop it.
Art can be confronted using objective means: Accuracy of perspective and proportions, use of light, composition, level and diversity of details.
In all these fields the art got objectively worse since 6th ed but saw a severe drop with AoS specifically.

About the price, I'm talking specifically of the new miniatures since this is trying to talk about AoS, the price per model, especially for single models, is becoming absurd.

1st and 2nd edition didn't try to sell books about specific factions with said barebones fluff though, I've seen the seraphon battletome, it adds basically nothing to what you can read in its preview in the WD!
If they keep growing fluff at this pace, they are never going to build a setting, but apparently they want to sell a story so it may not be their intention after all.

Yes, things not selling is an indication of things not selling.


I get that AoS can be fun, enjoyable and all, but trying to shut down discussion and blindly deny any kind of criticism is stupid, especially when OP asked for it and this is exactly what we have about it and can say with a fair amount of certainty about it.

>>43538078
The Elf books had fantastic art.

>>43538057
I dont get why Sigmar is this glorified when his track record is killing a bunch of orks then founding an empire, then missing for millennia till he is defeated by the chaos gods, the world eaten and him thrown into space. Where he makes a new series of worlds which are immediately invaded by chaos, he loses his hammer and only barely manages to get it back while all the realms are about to collapse back into Chaos all over again.

I mean I get it, he is PROTAGONIST but still. His list of accomplishments is hardly something to be proud of.

>>43538092
>Doesn't understand who Sigmar is
>Tripfag

Why am I not surprised.

>>43537747
Is it? Because I play it a lot and dont find it so. This is the kind of shitpost we dont want. You havent told us anything about how you play so we can't help you. Youve just asserted tthat its tedious. It is not objectively tedious.

>>43538098
He makes valid points.
Sigmar sucks.
Even the antagonist Archaon is very lacking.

>>43538087
Show me the amazing 6th edition art compared to the shit AoS art then.

It still does not defeat subjectivity being a thing. You can apply "objective" things to it as much as you want, but those objective rules are still subjective rules, because a human came up with them. Nice appeal to authority thou.

>things not needed is an indication of things not selling

As I said, Tau can't be selling then, as their CE is still for sale :)

As for your final point, yup, but you've come up with the same shit that has been said for the last 6 months. Give me some solid evidence, like sales numbers world wide, and I'll say AoS is a flop. I don't have any interest in it, but I'm fed up of seeing the same old bullshit shitting up /tg/ and threads about it.

>>43537941
Not Carnac. Carnac is in 40k and AoS threads. He blindly supports both. I do not. The guy spamming pictures with Swigmar in title? That's Carnac. I am not him.

>>43538098
Although he is a tripfag and therefore a massive faggot he does make a good point.

>>43538098
He was supposedly a mortal turned god, then later revealed to be the physical manifestation of the wind of heaven, after GW forgot that the 'winds of magic' were just a crutch for human spellcasters that the elves gave them so they don't implode from dealing with the stuff of the warp directly like they do.

But he didn't actually DO anything for the most part, and since becoming a real character that 100% exists (unlike the other gods) he mostly just fails his objectively or barely manages to undo defeats.

So why is he the focus of the whole reboot when his mortal followers have better track record then he does?

>>43538154
>>43538117

Well he doesn't because if you actually read the stories beyond 1d4chan like you clearly havn't, you'd understand how Sigmar works and his character right now.

>>43538161
See? He's a fucking invalid who knows nothing about the fucking setting.

He thinks the Winds of Magic were "fake"

>>43537457
You didn't refute any of his points, you're just whining because you like AOS and you don't like criticism of it

>>43538092
Sigmar represented the potential of mankind to rise as self made beacon of hope trough sheer will in a world subject to the continuous tortures of dark gods.
Your error was to consider him a protagonist of a story and not the figure in a setting.
Protagonists have to do stuff.
Figures have to represent stuff.

>>43538150
Anyone who supports AoS is Carnac.

>>43538178
Actually he did.

Special editions not selling are not indications of a failing game.

The Tau book is the perfect example because Tau are fucking making bank right now.

>>43538180
>Sigmar represented the potential of mankind to rise as self made beacon of hope trough sheer will in a world subject to the continuous tortures of dark gods.

Doesn't the fact that Sigmar was actually never a mortal but a wind of magic made manifest contradict that? Since he was never REALLY a mortal but a god clad in flesh temporarily.

>>43538199
>Sigmar was never actually a mortal

Jesus christ, this is why nobody takes tripfags seriously.

He was mortal you fucking berk, he BECAME a god.

>>43535140
>Now that the dust settled and everyone got it out of their systems, we can have a proper discussion about Age of Sigmar.
>
>What is /tg/'s opinion on the game and new setting? It is the success GW hoped it would be?
As long as it doesn't affect WHFRP I do not care. Unlike 40k WHFB used to be decent-ish, but I stopped playing a long time ago.

>>43538180
So every human has the potential to have the shit kicked out of them and fail at everything.

>>43538208
A mortal does not kill a horde of Orcs with the jawbones of a mule, AS A BABY

A mortal cannot defeat the Great Necromancer in combat.

>>43538199
You remember the fluff wrong dude

>>43538199
Blackheart.

Did you ever actually play WHFB or ANY iteration of Warhammer Fantasy?

Because right now you sound like a /v/ retard reading the Lexicanum and trying to sound like he knows everything.

>>43538229
Sigmar did, or did you literally miss all of the end times shit that explained how he got his lightning powers?

>>43537256
>Criticism is not valid if it has been said before

Jesus christ

>>43538246
Going "Ded game" and "My local totally hates AoS trust me" isn't really criticism.

>>43538176
>>He thinks the Winds of Magic were "fake"

Are you fucking stoned right now?

He's just bringing up the point that the Winds of Magic exists as a single sort of mass. When the Elves taught Human kind magic, they basically dumbed it down for them so their fucking heads wouldn't explode.

What >>43538161 is forgetting is that the Winds of Magic do exist in separate colour strands that the Elves combine into Qhaysh, or High/Saphery magic.

>>43538239
>Sigmar did, or did you literally miss all of the end times shit that explained how he got his lightning powers?

Apparently you did. Sigmar only got his lightening powers after he ventured into the Chaos Wastes and was imprisoned by Tzeentch in the Winds of Azyr. He spent thousands of years inside the wind until he was released wen Teclis undid the Vortex during the End Times.

Before all of that, he had no source of power other than unexplained barbarian powers.

>>43538140
>It still does not defeat subjectivity being a thing. You can apply "objective" things to it as much as you want, but those objective rules are still subjective rules, because a human came up with them. Nice appeal to authority thou.
Then tell me one objective and comparable quality to talk about the art then.

>>43538246
Its not valid if its just regurgitated garbage. Most of the problems with AoS are solved in the OP resources of the /AoSG/ threads and the comp packs. Anything else is purely mongoloids asserting that subjective opinions are in fact objective.

>>43538277
Wouldn't that mean Sigmar is just a mortal REALLY high on chaos juice?

>>43538273
Exactly what I was saying? The winds of Magic are not just little baby things made by humans, they're actual quantifiable things that ebb and flow at different rates, Humans just invented the different schools based on learning each individual schools because Human's couldn't handle learning more than one.

>>43538277
... That's exactly what I was talking about? Sigmar wasn't Mr Lightning man until he got bound to the winds of Azyr.

>>43538287
AoS sort of does away with all magic being chaos, probably one of the better things really. He's a God because he can do god things and he owns a realm.

>>43538232
Huh, it might be, reading up on the wikis now I realize Sigmar wasn't always the Wind of Heaven. Guess I was wrong about that!

Still, his list of accomplishments is kind of short. Also

>>43538229
Isn't Sigmar now friends with Gork and Mork fused into one? Thats kind of funny seeing how his whole rise to importance started with a genocidal war against the greenskins.

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>>43537256 Criticism is not valid if it has been said before

>>43537457
>No, repeating the same shit over and over for 6 months is shitposting. See the guy I replied to first
People repeat the same things over and over because despite a dozen of books between novels and rulebooks there's nothing new.

>>43538325
No? Criticism is criticism regardless of the number of times it is brought up, it doesn't stop being so when you don't want to hear it anymore.

>>43538325
>>43538326

>
>>43538283

>>43538301
>... That's exactly what I was talking about? Sigmar wasn't Mr Lightning man until he got bound to the winds of Azyr.

It's irrelevant to what I was talking about.

I was mentioning his adventures before he got thrown into Azyr. He was just a "man" but did a lot things that should be impossible for a mortal man:

1-Defeated an Orc horde as a BABY with the jawbones of a mule
2-Defeated the First Everchosen
3-Defeated Greater Daemons on his own
4-Defeated Nagash
5-Defeated Azazel

The list goes on.

>>43538194
>Tau are fucking making bank right now.

Where do you live? In my stupid country there are barely any Tau players.

Marines and Eldar... Those are the two flavors of the moment here, with IG coming third.

>>43538319
>His list of accomplishments is kind of short.

>Drive like 90% of the Orcs out of the old world
>Defeat the first Everchosen of chaos
>Slap Nagash's shit.
>Found a stable and secure empire of man
>Bro with Dwarves so much they actually treat him like an equal.


Sounds like a badass Barbarian king to me

We can now add

>Wandered north to fight chaos directly, got trapped in lightning and became a god himself because Harvey Birdman is the fucking worst chao god and does everything wrong.

As for Mork and Gork, sort of, until the Alliance of Gods fell now Sigmar thinks they're cunts.

>>43538357
So you're basically whining he did heroic things as a hero?

>>43538357
Most of those were thanks to dwarves and elves though. Not personally thanks to him.

>>43538140

>Show me the amazing 6th edition art compared to the shit AoS art then

No, wait, you are defending AoS art without even knowing what 6th ed looked like? I guess ignorance explains the wrong opinions.

>>43538370
>Where do you live? In my stupid country there are barely any Tau players.

Every time, like clockwork, some fucking invalid shows up using stupidly narrow Anecdotal evidence and thinks it's comparible.

Why are you people this fucking stupid?

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>>43538283
>Most of the problems with AoS are solved in the OP resources of the /AoSG/ threads and the comp packs.

>>43538386
You have GW's sale data perchance? Because that's the only thig who would be valid.

>>43538283
>Anything else is purely mongoloids asserting that subjective opinions are in fact objective.
What would be these subjective opinions spouted as objective?

>>43538376
>So you're basically whining he did heroic things as a hero?

I wouldn't be "whining" the source of his power was explained. Why haven'tthere been any other humans with the same type of power?

>>43538421
>Game isnt fun
>game is tedious
>Models look shit
>Art looks shit

Basically anything that is your opinion is subjective, because its YOUR opinion. My opinion differs, thats why I never say AoS is objectively a good game. Saying AoS has flaws, however, is objective, because it does.

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>>43538379
Nope. I do know what 6th looked like, I don't think it is amazingly better than AoS. They're both different. I like them both. I wanted to see what he thought was such a massive leap in quality.

>>43538282
You cannot. Art is subjective. It always has been, likely always will be.

Do you think this is art? Many people would not.

Even if we assume everybody considers it art, is it objectively good art? Many would say it is.

Even I said "Which of these is better art" and posted this picture next to, say, a Picasso. Which is going to get the "best art" choice?

What you find shit, others do not find shit. What you do not find shit, others find shit. That's what subjectivity and opinions are.

I like both of the settings art. I would say that 6th was more... I dunno, realistic? While AoS is more "fantasy". It's also 15 years in difference. 15 years ago, computer art was very rare. Maybe that's a bad thing, who knows. I would suspect many would would go "Yes, computer done art is worse than hand-drawn art" Maybe they're right, but it's still a subjective opinion.

>>43538489
>Art looks shit
But this is not only subjective, the art of the age of sigmar has technical deficiencies all over

>>43538349
Yup, but when it shits up a discussion about something, when it's been said non-stop for 6 months, it's annoying. Imagine if I went into 40k threads and just spammed

>GW ARE JEWS DON'T BUY SPEE MARINES!!!

or went into a KoW thread and went

>MANTIC MODELS ARE SHIT SHIT SHIT

For 6 months straight, it'd be annoying, right?

>b-b-b-ut it's just criticism bro! It doesn't stop being so when you don't want to hear it any more (anymore isn't a word btw bro)

It's annoying as fuck and isn't needed. When people come into a thread, ANY THREAD, not just AoS, for the sole purpose of shitposting (sorry, 'criticising') every time for 6 months, it's no longer helpful or productive. To make matters worse, people spout their opinions as if it's fact. From both sides. It shits up the board. Why can't /tg/ be like it used to be, when people kept to their own threads and when they did move, didn't shitpost?

>>43535140
Lore sucks games not as bad as the rep it gets

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>>43538544
You tell him bro, should be like 40k tee bee hiatch.

>>43538619
>(anymore isn't a word btw bro)

Jesus christ.

>>43538651
it's a problem shared by most modern GW art (check the new tau stuff). A consequence of going for quantity over quality.

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>people falling for /v/ shitposting thread

Fuck sake. It's fucking obvious. Refer to this image macro for signs of /v/ shitposting.

>>43538666
Hah! I put that in there to see if it'd get a response like this. Thanks for activating my trap card. So here comes my pre-planned response.

>HUR DUR CAN'T COUNTER ARGUMENTS SO YOU JUST GO "HURR DURR POINTING OUT GRAMMAR HERP DE DERP"

I did expect you to use an image macro. You surpassed my expectations, well done anon.

>>43535140
It is nothing like the success GW hoped it would be.

Now whether it is as/more profitable than Fantasy is another story, but most anecdotal internet evidence points to no.
As does none of the limited edition books selling out, while the fantasy ones did within a week.

>>43538537
>You cannot.
Yes, you can: Comparing different artistic genres is impossible because they have different objectives carried out trough different means. The common art of warhammer, though, it's unilaterally aimed at capturing a moment of said setting.
In that regard the more realistic it looks, the better it is: failing in the use of perspective, of light or copy pasting numerous figures in the same position with barely any differing details or having poorly rendered figures is objectively worse than an artwork having accurate perspective, anatomy, a correct use of light, quantity and depth of details is objectively a better done artwork.


This without taking into consideration the fact that even subjective opinions have at their heart objective parameters.

>>43537614
>tfw was waiting out 8e after they retconned SoC
>tfw got nuked instead
Oh well, no one can ever take Mordeheim away from me at least

>>43538711
I'm not the guy you were talking too, I don't even care, this thing just made me jump.

As for your arguments themselves, I didn't read them, I just enjoy this trainwreck of a thread. Carry on.

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>>43538681
Out of curiosity, what would deem as one of the best art pieces done by GW?

>>43538694
Is this actually a thing?
I haven't been on /v/ in like 6 years

>>43535140
I was hoping for GW to fix the rules/comp but they never did.
So it is what it is, an unbalanced mess.

It can only work for casual beer and pretzels pick up play (which requires a good group of friends, good luck getting the mess of rules working with strangers).
However it's really fucking pricey for a beer and pretzels style game...there are so many cheaper alternatives.

>>43538666
He is Carnac. Ignore him
he'll defend AoS no matter what he needs to

>>43538736
I'm honestly confused why they didn't just print it as a specialist board game with collectible minis.
I mean, other than wanting to copyright literally every name for whatever reason.

Do we want /AoS/ to succeed? What kind of precedent it's going to send?

40K might be next oh the horror....

>>43538754
I feel like that need for copyright has really fucked them over.
Make it like your idea (maybe knock the price down a little) and it would be pretty popular.

>>43535140
The Southern Grand Tournaments in the US have replaced Warhammer with Kings of War now.

Make of that what you will.

>>43537164
>Stormcast Eternals are just Space Marines not in space.

They're more like a combination of bizarro Chaos Warriors and bizarro Micro-Daemon Princes. Aesthetically they're kinda fantasyfied SM, but less so than Chaos Warriors are fantasyfied CSM.

Not actually defending it, I legitimately CANNOT stand the way they look. At all.

>>43538718
I see your point mate, don't think I'm just arguing for the sake of it. I just don't think it's as bad as you say. The art we see now is what sells, pic related. Sakami-chan (or w/e her name is) art earns her $900,000 a year (last time I checked she was, might have gone down or gone up, this is an old pic). It's not horrible, but it isn't amazing. Light and bloom cover lots of shit. But it sells and that's all that really matters.

AoS might be technically worse than 6th edition, but I don't think the difference is so alarmingly noticable and even if it is (you obviously can tell) then you're either a minority in that regard or you're right that it's quantity over quality. That's the thing, I don't think it's as bad as you're saying it is. Could it be better? Sure. But my point is, you saying it's shit does not make it shit, regardless of parameters and stuff (again, appealing to authority here dude). People like what they like. Look at that dyke Cara, people think she's a literal 10/10 girl. I think she's average at best and creepy and off-putting at worst. But that's just it mate, we are all different people, all different feelings and opinions. Now, had you gone "I think the art is shit". I wouldn't have said anything, the fact is, you said it was shit objectively, and you cannot say anything is objective. As what guidelines you deem as objective, are subjective, as a human has decided what is considered objective. Having the opinion that AoS art, or AoS in general, is shit, is not a bad opinion. But it's still an opinion. Spouting opinions as fact isn't a good idea. Which is what you did.

>>43538777
>don't buy new codexes because of garbage bloat and GW literally lying to you
>ok we nuke setting
I doubt it would happen to 40k within the decade, but 10 years from now if GW hasn't sunk and is still the same assholes, then maybe

>>43537457
>Fuck. This is what it's come to. Scrabbling to find excuses. Well, guess Tau aren't a success cause their CE book didn't sell :^)
But it did sell...?

>>43538735
Yes. /v/ is part of the shitposting problem, I'm afraid. Go into /v/, start a 40k/WHFB game thread and watch people shitpost going

>hur dur fuck 40k, when AoS game????

Just to start shit. In fact, try and go and have a reasonable discussion about video games with an opening comment which is thought out and well argued. You're likely to be ignored. But go onto /v/ and go "HOLY SHIT FUCKING BLUNDER OF THE CENTURY HAAHAHAHAHAH!" along with some picture and you'll get 400+ replies.

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>>43538797
>"Well, for starters, Space Marines are chosen as children, tortured by SCIENCE!, and then drafted into an eternity of being monastic murder machines whose sole purpose is to hold up the crumbling foundations of an omnicidal dystopia in the name of a rotting carcass that eats psykers like chiclets. They're emotionally stunted orphans who were brainwashed and weaponized before being unleashed on a galaxy where EVERYTHING is trying to kill them. They never even had a chance to be people before someone turned them into a gun instead.

>Stormcast, on the other hand, are dead heroes, chosen for their valour and faith, resurrected and sent to free the Mortal Realms from the abominations currently running the show, on behalf of a benevolent god-king. They're traumatized heroes who had lives, personalities and histories prior to being crammed into primary colored hulkbuster armor and filled full of lightning so that they could go save their descendants from the eldritch horrors of a nightmare dimension. They endure death after death, losing a bit more of their soul each time, in order to prevent anyone else from suffering the fate which befell them.

>One group are so far removed from humanity as to be utterly alien. The other group are so human it causes them pain. One group feels little in the way of emotion, the other group feels emotion as strongly as they did before death. One group hates and fears the alien. The other group allies regularly with space-lizards, skeletors and green monster-men. One group is the personification of the grim future in which they live. The other is a thing born of hope.

>>43538821
I'm not surprised about the shitposting and obnoxiousness, that's always been a thing in /v/, just more surprised about their hate for 40k, I remember them loving it there

>>43538745
I'm not Carnac, shut the fuck up. What do I need to do to prove I'm not that cum-guzzling retard? Carnac was the faggot spamming Swigmar pictures. This is getting out of fucking control, everybody who types coherent sentences is now Carnac, I could point out other posts on /tg/ where people have accused others of being Carnac. Is this a fucking meme now? Just call anybody who you disagree with Carnac? Fuck off.

AoS is shit, it has no lore, the rules don't mean anything and there is no balance. Chaos sucks dick, Be'lakor is a fucking fag. Tau are flavour of the month bullshit and are irrelevant in the wider scheme of things. Necrons are Pokemon trainers.

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>>43538817
"no"

>>43538844
Ignore this Carnac-calling faggot.
He's Carnac.

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>>43538840
>The similarities are cosmetic: big guys in easily paintable armor sell better than little dudes with fiddly bits. But the context for those cosmetic similarities is quite different. Think of it this way...Space Marines are Batman and Stormcast are Captain America. Both are super-heroes, both wear costumes, both punch bad guys, both save people. But they ain't the same, are they?"

-Josh Reynolds (BL freelancer writer who worked on several fantasy, 40K, and AoS books)

I think he captured the difference between the marines and eternals.

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>>43538841
Oh they like 40k. There is just a number of people who are crossboarders and like to shitpost. So they post shit like I said to get responses.

>>43538797

>chaos warriors are fantasyfied CSM

MFW people believe this is the way round it goes

>MFW i have no face

>>43535140
Pre-AoS fantasy is literally the only thing I liked about GW after they decided to make 40k super serious grimdark bullshit and not a cheeky parody of the sci fi and space opera settings it based itself on.

Now, I feel like AoS is going off in a different direction, I dislike the Sigmarines aesthetic and I suspect more like them are coming, and the whole End Times thing is a copout in my opinion.

Whatever. They can't take my WFRP2E books away and they can't stop my group from using them, but they won't get any more of my money any time soon.

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>>43538869
>>43538841
And the last one before I gave up.

>>43538821
To be fair, WH TW is a trainwreck. Chaos DLC, really?

>>43538867
Yes, in that Batman and Captain America are, aesthetically, examples of lazy and poor-quality design.

>>43538886
>more of them are coming

Not that we know of. Next is Archaon on his new Not!Cerberus mount. Then Elves.

>>43538912
I wouldn't say it's a trainwreck. It looks good, but that is bullshit, I agree with you. But SEGA are Jews and have done this since Empire. All I can say is go complain on their forums about how this is bullshit.

>>43538912
It's a Total War game, I don't expect it to be playable for another year after release anyway

>>43538840
Nice.

At first symmetrical order-warriors bothered me conceptually, now I view it as a pleasant dose of Moorcock (hehe, cock).

That being said, still can't get over the faces. Gold death masks make them look very different from chaos warriors, but... knightly helmet faces would probably make them look TOO much like orderified chaos warriors. So, I don't know.

Are chaos warriors still of the usual origin?

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>always liked warhams for its dark humor and feel
>mfw it got replaced by a bland nobleright setting with shiny angels

What the hell man?

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>>43538797
I'm being a complete pedant here, but chaos warrior figures existed before CSM figures did.

>>43538870
Sorry that reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.

>Aesthetically

>>43538972
That'd be why I said aesthetically.

I hate it so much. Not because of what it is, I merely find the system boring/rules light and it would be forgettable otherwise. The hate comes from the fact that none of my WHFB stuff is ever going to get updated again and getting older models is going to be a pain.

I play weekly games of WHFB at my local and only after a few months we have already encountered problems getting miniatures.

>>43538968
Eh, its an Asatru inspired setting where chaos and order war eternally. Its not unique and a lot of shit, a LOT of shit was changed/renamed for IP reasons, but to say its bland is kind of unfair.

>>43538869
>>43538903
>oh no, someone disagrees with me, it must be that /v/ shitposter boogeyman I've heard about

What a juvenile coping mechanism against criticism.

>>43539014
Eh. Everything is still current. Youll have problems getting really old models, but no more than what it used to be like. The only difference is bases.

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>>43538734
Interesting, if irrelevant question. Probably the starter art for 5th edition WHFB, of which I can't find a decent sized full image. But if we're talking the best (technically)? Pretty much anything from Smith, Kopinski or Gallagher.

My problem with modern GW art isn't the style or even the medium, but the workmanship. There's still good art being made, but it's bumping shoulders with quite a lot of not so good stuff. Don't know if the artists are to blame or the company's deadlines, but the end result isn't pretty.

>>43539055
They've removed things from the store and my local couldn't order them. We had to go online to a place who still had some.

>>43535140
Im too jaded after Storms to care. I've been off GW products since then.

>>43538107
It is tedious. A 6-turns, 100 minis on the table game sets you for at least 4 hours, most of the time moving minis one by one and grinding yourself in the middle of the table.

>>43538968
Until we get more fluff, it's hard to work out if the humour has gone. Sigmarines and Chaos won't have humour in them. Wait until the Orks and Skaven are out before we decide if it's over.

>>43539036
>he provides pics to show /v/ shitposts AoS in 40k threads
>J-j-just say its a-a-a-a b-b-boogeyman!

I'm surprised you didn't say meme.

>>43539078
Like what? They only remove things to rebase them, in the case of Lizardmen it was something like 2/3 weeks once the first items started falling off the store. Can you be more specific about what went missing?

>>43539110
Sadly, all factions had factions had humour in WHFB. Like it or not, people compare WHFB fluff with current AoS fluff, not what it will be in 20 years.

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>>43539074
Not really. You said it was a modern problem, I wanted to see what you considered good. What's wrong with that?

I'll show you the worst art I've seen in AoS, just to prove I'm not defending AoS art for the sake of it.

This picture is fucking awful. The heads are all wrong. Reminds me of the Butler from Aristocats film. But the picture I linked in that other comment? That's from the same book, I think it's pretty cool. I like it. Lots of art in the Seraphon book I enjoyed, technically good or not, I still enjoyed it. People enjoy watching The Room because it's so bad. Some people think Slum Dog Millioniare is one of the worst films ever made, many don't. That's my point. Opinions. As for your art piece, I loved it too, but it still triggers me that Sanguinius's hair is blonde, when it's been descirbed as brown/black and only the Light from his Halo made it appear blonde. But I guess that got retconned at some point. It's better he had golden hair.

>>43539141
>humorous Chaos Warriors

Okay, I'll bite. Unless you just mean Chaos in general.

>>43539078
Like? Lizardmen range was pulled for rebasing. I assume the same is happening for every other faction.

>>43539141
Lots of them did, I agree, but it wasn't walls-to-walls humour. There is lots of hidden 'humour' in Lizardmen, for example.

>>43539154
Wulfrik.

>>43539172
Can you explain what was humorous about him? The fact he insults people in their own language? Got any more examples? Lizardmen have more than that and they have no personality....

>>43539188
Check out the insult he issues to a Dwarfen Lord.

Also there is that Slaaneshi prince who surrounds himself with mirrors and would stop in the middle of combat just to look at himself.

>>43539152
>But the picture I linked in that other comment? That's from the same book
Yes, I'm aware. The books are, for good or ill, filled with plenty of art.

But I'm not talking about style, or even proportions. I'm talking about laziness. Like in the posted image, you can see the obviously transparent brush strokes for what I assume to be trees.

That kind of shit's unacceptable. And it's everywhere.

>>43539188
Sigwald started war with high elves only because they had better hair than him.

>>43539249
Wait, you said it was technically bad in earlier comments

>Yes, you can: Comparing different artistic genres is impossible because they have different objectives carried out trough different means. The common art of warhammer, though, it's unilaterally aimed at capturing a moment of said setting.
In that regard the more realistic it looks, the better it is: failing in the use of perspective, of light or copy pasting numerous figures in the same position with barely any differing details or having poorly rendered figures is objectively worse than an artwork having accurate perspective, anatomy, a correct use of light, quantity and depth of details is objectively a better done artwork.

So, is that not you?

>>43539281
No, >>43538681 and >>43538544 are two different people.

>>43535140
It's still awful. Any game that almost entirely relies on houserules is a failure. It's like the Odyssey, a super early video game console that didn't really have any graphics, just on light on the screen with some overlays for the screen for the different games. The way you control the light never really changes and if you were playing something like pong, there is nothing stopping your opponent from moving his glowing dot across the dividing border.

Age of Sigmar is exactly that, but not an early attempt at a wargame. Somebody actually that that was good design for some reason.

>>43535140
Games Workshop rebrand to Not-Games Workshop when?

>>43535140
They got rid of my Knightly motherfuckers.

It was a resounding failure on all fronts.

>>43539295
Okay. Right. Well, yes, it is lazy. But it's not technically wrong. It just "This is passable and it'd need another couple of days work to be great, but I don't have time, fuck".

GW would have to fork out more for that. The Seraphon art was passable. Some of it was enjoyable, some of it was shit. All of it has signs of laziness. Or, more correctly, signs of needing more time spent on it.

But the art in general has no dropped in quality from 6th on wards, despite what the guy says. It just clear that Lizardmen aren't a seller and GW don't give a fuck about them and don't want to fork out too much for them.

>>43539325
Already has. Their stores are now called Warhammer.

>>43539344
No they haven't.

http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Compendiums/warhammer-aos-bretonnia-en.pdf

Wait until they get an update proper.

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>>43535140
Don't google seraphon.

>>43539110
>first image is someone jokingly taking the piss out of GW's greed, as it has been countless times but with 40k and WHFB images, while staying on topic
>you immediately go off-topic, jump to conclusions and screencap it as if it would grant your claims any authority
>second image it's clear that you have already attempted to derail the thread with your incessant defending of AoS
>instead of making counterpoints to people disagreeing with you, you go on a tirade against WHFB
Truly they are the problem, not you.

Also
>using stutterposting and >implying while complaining about shitposting
How ironic.

>>43539400
Wow. Just wow.

I'm not this faggot you're replying to, but this is autism personified. Fuck sake anon, just don't fucking reply, you look more of a sperg than he does.

>>43538087
>Art can be confronted using objective means: Accuracy of perspective and proportions, use of light, composition, level and diversity of details.

I'm not really an "artfag" but you're my fucking hero for saying this.

Something's just really "off" about >>43538037
>>43538048
and >>43538057
The Keeper of Secret's pose is just weirdly rigid looking, the Great Unclean One looks awesome but Sigmar is about to swing his hammer at the air in front if its tits for some reason, the Bloodthirster is facing in a dumb direction (Sigmar looks baller here, though, except for the internally rotated left foot) and has his Khorne emblem-plate-thing not sitting squarely on his chest for some reason.

>>43539492
Not him.

But that other anon did write with a smug and obnoxious way.

>>43539529
Ever thought it could have been bait? This is a shitposting thread after all.

>>43538537
I kind of appreciate the sentiment that "art is subjective", but I feel like there can be an objective quality to how "good" art is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNI07egoefc

Vid says it better than I could really, I guess, but if I had to make my own comment I'd say: If art is supposed to make its audience feel something, which I think is the case, then the higher quality the art, the stronger the emotional provocation and the "better" the art has done its job. If I see a beautiful painting of an interesting scene, I'll feel feelings of awe. If I see a blank canvas, I'll feel pretty "blank canvas" myself. The artist can make up whatever he wants as a "meaning" behind his blank canvas but if I can't experience that meaning by consuming the art - if I need the intended emotional response explained to me - then the art's failed as a means of conveying a meaning and/or provoking an emotional response from its audience.

>>43537975
This is the coolest fucking picture I've ever seen.

>>43535140
They threw away something unique with a small but dedicated fanbase in favour of something much more generic, which they mistakenly believed would sell better to the market they think buys their products, teens and pre-teens, while estranging the market that actually does buy their product, 20- and 30-something neckbeards.

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>>43539714
Not a patch on the original.

>>43537073
Wait there are people here that actually like and defend AoS? Why?

>>43538619
Why don't you take some of your own advice and stop shit posting in this thread?

>>43538903
>Actually defending AoS
>Anywhere
this is just sad>>43538912

>>43539764
To be fair this looks more like he's surfing the green tide while rocking out than actual fighting.

>>43539627
>feel something

This, sorta. There's also the question of whether any sort of shitscribble qualifies as "art" at all.

The classical Feels criterion was corrupted the minute low-rent refrigerator artists began to claim that aiming to DISGUST viewers was valid artistic expression too - that anyone who could dunk a cross into a jar of piss must be lauded as an equal visionary genius. [Clearly, no one of average intellect could have devised such a profound display!]

"This isn't art. You suck at life."
"You're a Luddite, incapable of understanding subtlety and nuance."
"There's nuance in fingerpainting with poop? Subtlety in a vagina collage?"
"Luddite."

And so it goes. Art is [was?] meant to inspire. Ergo, displays of subjects unavoidable in life are not "art." QED

As to AoS, this is the quality of "art" one gets by low-balling struggling freelancers desperate enough to waive their ownership rights - it generally ranges from Not Bad to just Bad. I'm sure their mums all think they're brilliant, though ...

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>>43540011
You've got the idea.

>>43539714
>This is the coolest fucking picture I've ever seen.

You've seen few pictures in your life, then.

>>43536379
I can live without the points, without competetivness (Which just attracts insufferable assholes anyway), but I hate how the fluff lacks anything remotely human and relatable.

You´ve got the Sigmarines - Undead, devoted to Sigmar, no emotions, no personallity.

Chaos - one-dimensional lol-evil guys

And so on..

If it was nothing but a mediocre excuse for a wargame with no inherent way to balance itself, rubbish art and a bland uninspired setting /tg/ would not care.

But it only exists because a much better setting was destroyed. And then the new game includes rules designed explicitly to annoy fans of the old one and make them leave so more teenagers will come in to buy the new models.

>>43540236
And it will work, too.

>>43540775
So? Any Warhammer fan with any self respect would have refused to buy anything AoS related anyway.

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>>43535140
Now I could read this thread but would mean having to read people actually defend AoS again, which I will not tolerate so I'm just going to fall back on what's always worked.

AoS is a totally inoffensive person, but that person killed my friend and tried to wear his skin and that is unforgivable.

I therefore conclude that anyone who defends AoS is a shill and a spider, not worthy of your trust nor your time.

>>43540889
Well, by your words that is exactly what GW is going for, innit. Can't fault the company for a plan that actually succeeded, for a change.

>>43540889
No true scotsman

The dust hasn't settled yet. Hell, the dust hasn't really even started to go crazy yet forget having it settle already. There's not enough released of the system/setting yet. When there's the level of support for every race/faction that there is currently for Stormcast Eternals and Khorne Bloodbound then it's worth making actual critiques.

This is even more important because of the fact that AoS is centered more around micromanaging while WHFB is macromanaging. In video game terms WHFB is closer to a typical RTS game whereas AoS is more similar to the more micro RTS games like Warcraft 3, Company of Heroes, C&C 4 and Dawn of War 2. It is because of this massive change in gameplay style that those who are playing AoS with their older WHFB units aren't having as good of a time because those units weren't made for these newer rules. Meanwhile, those who play Stormcast Eternals and Khorne Bloodbound are having a much better time because these totally cool looking brand new units are made specifically for these new rules.

This is where I agree with...

>>43535224

that GW really didn't have to replace WHFB completely as both WHFB and AoS are very different from each other down to the rules, how high the fantasy level is, setting, story, everything. The only thing they share are characters and races, which honestly many a fantasy setting share with each other despite being completely different. I am honestly hoping that GW realizes this and brings back support for WHFB the same way White Wolf eventually brought back support for oWoD and had both oWoD and nWoD.

>>43539363
I did find out seraph could have meant "splendent serpents" in ancient time, did I do good?

>>43540968
>>AoS is a totally inoffensive person, but that person killed my friend and tried to wear his skin and that is unforgivable.

I don't get it, WHFB got killed because his sales didn't meet GW expectation. Logically, the dead of WHFB have nothing to do with AoS. If AoS can't meet GW target in future, he will being canned too.

>>43541363
Excuse me, may I ask for source?

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Show of hands. Who here has a) spent money on AoS and b) spent more then what they usually do on Fantasy?

I've thrown a lot of money at Fantasy over the years, and as a skavenfag GW made a profit off me with End Times, but I've not spent a penny since AoS. Has AoS affected your spending? Is geedubs getting more or less of your money because of it?

>>43542751
I'm picking up the last few units and monsters for my long unfinished army, but mostly through ebay.

I doubt I'll sink any money into AoS unless they decide to release a plastic version of one of the metal units.

I stopped playing fantasy a long time ago.
But what I want to now is how much people play stormcast?
Are they popular? Or are they like any other fraction.

>>43542751
I've barely spent any money at all on Games Workshop shit since AoS came out, neither 40k nor fantasy. It really killed my passion for the hobby for my favorite setting to be destroyed and replaced by a poorly defined half-setting that's been cobbled out of its corpse.

Still, gives me a chance to catch up on painting and play all the new WHFB video games, I guess.

>>43542751
I've spent about 1000$ on AoS so far, about 4-5 times more than I would have done otherwise.

>>43542967
Many people have gotten some stormcast just for the hell of it. I'm one of those people. Now I've grown fond of them and expanded to about 4000 pts (using PPC)

>>43542967
No one really plays stormcasts and seems like more of a bit mining purchase. Then again every fantasy players I've known have migrated to kow.

>>43542751
It has been years since I bought something for fantasy, I play lizardmen and I didnt like the new miniatures, perhaps I'll buy some terradons at some point. I have bought for 22 pounds the khorne half of the AoS starter to 40kize it for my CSM army and for posible but improbable uses in mordheim, necromunda and my own dungeon crawl game because I'm that delusional. To be honest, I want to buy some toy dinosaurs to transform into Lizardmen monsters because I like them more. Something is wrong when Papo toys makes better monsters than GW.

>>43538797
Actually, I see Stormcast Eternals as the good counterpart to Warriors of Chaos.

Both are armored, muscled giants who will tear you a new one in close combat, yet while the latter serve the Dark Gods of Chaos, the first are the souls of heroes that were literally forged back with Sigmarite to fight Chaos and anyone threatening the mortals of the worlds.

I'd have taken them more seriously...IF IT WEREN'T FOR THE STUPID FACE-HELMS AND THE FACT THEY COME WITH HAMMERS AS STANDARD. NOT TO MENTION BEING PART OF A PLACE THAT IS A BAD MIX OF HE-MAN AND NORSE MYTHOLOGY DONE WRONG.

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>>43542751
>Who here has a) spent money on AoS and b) spent more then what they usually do on Fantasy?

I bailed from WM/H and went to AoS because I was tired of measuring Line of Sight with a laser and accounting for 1/8th and 1/4th inch increment placements and ranges, not to mention an increasingly complicated set of rules and special abilities in an ultra-competitive atmosphere with the same 5-6 scenarios played every game with zero fluff support behind them.

I bought the AoS starter kit, a few duplicate sprues from the kit for Stormcasts off Ebay, the main rule book and the two bonus scenario books - Ghal Maraz and Dreadhold, so about $250-$300?

I am systematically selling off about half of my WM/H stuff piece by piece. Entire Menoth army worth at least $600-$800, and will probably dump some assorted models from my other factions (Circle and a few Ret models I bought only to paint). Only thing I plan on keeping for sure is my Skorne and Mercs - because I collected every Skorne model over the last 5 years, and most of them are OOP metal. Same for Mercs, although I've only got about 100 points worth, they're the OOP metal models.

I can no longer stomach dropping money on plastic "restic" infantry that have mold lines running through their faces and polearms bent in half. This happened a lot less often with PP Metal, but they've been committed to phasing that out. The game could play "meh" and I'll still tolerate it if the models weren't such concentrated garbage that took ten times the effort than the amazingly sharp GW sprues to correct.

A game of WM/H has become pure tedium. Probably my meta, but I'm not driving 2 hours in the other direction to find another one.

I loved that during the investor interview they could never say it was selling well.
Just that it "met expectations", had a large number of free downloads and was a longterm investment.

>>43535140
Failed everywhere except the UK where it received mixed reviews.

The UK ETC team folks were the only ones to vote for AoS as the system for 2016 - no one else voted for this system.
And while AoS events in the UK are "not selling out", AoS events in other countries are mostly not happening at all.

>>43545946
I feel the same about WM/H, it´s kinda ruined by how competetive the community is

Is that Nagash yours?

Completely independent from fantasy, I quite like AOS. I went into it despising it, but it's still good fun to play, if you've got a decent opponent. I will mourn the Old World, but I can just lie to myself on that front, pretend everything is fine, but with a smaller rule-book and easier to casually set up games.

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>>43547274
>Is that Nagash yours?

Lol I wish. But it's a good example of how intricate a GW model is in comparison to 95% of the PP range. Nagash is $100 retail and is roughly as tall as as PP Colossal

Pic related is what you can get from PP for $135 a pop.

People can argue it's a different aesthetic, but let's be real - GW models are simply on another level. There is little comparison between the detail and artistry that goes into a GW centerpiece model versus what PP shits out. There are a few models in the PP range that could compete - Archangel, some of the battle engines, and some battle engine casters. But even then they're going to have some of their parts out of that shitty restic and you'll spend hours and hours fixing it - not to mention fitting it due to the fact that separately molded restic pieces do not remotely fit together like GW stuff does with tolerances so tight that some pieces could literally snap together without glue.

All the talk of "GW is a model company" is right. They are a model company, and aside from a specialty studio that is going to put up runs of 100 to 1000 of maybe 4-5 limited edition sculpts per year, there isn't a commercial operation on the same scale and quality I'm aware of anywhere in the world.

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>>43547568

Meanwhile this fucking model comes in a box of 40-something other models of roughly the same level of detail that is going on Ebay right now for $75 fucking dollars.

The product speaks for itself. GW doesn't need to defend shit. No, the starter kit is not indicative of all of their pricing - some of their pricing is completely fucked and I'll agree to that. But when you look at the price per model in comparison to the quality of the model you get, there is simply no competition from the rest of the market - no one else comes even remotely close.

The 30k stuff, with its level of customization, Forgeworld-quality plastic, and the rest of it is just more reinforcement of this fact. You will NOT get the same kind of mileage out of PP, which is GW's main competitor in the US at least - and Mantic's living off of bitter sentiment towards GW. Their models are bargain-quality at absolute best. If that's your thing, then more power to you.

>>43547568
I am really not a fan of PP models. I like some of the infantry and the casters, but I cant stand the warjacks

>>43547568
>>43547701
My problem with GW (aside from their business practices) is that some of their minis actually end up being over-busy because they try to cram so many details on. A book, with a smaller book strapped to it and skulls and rivets everywhere, etc etc. It makes some models a bit of a mess.

>>43547568
I think you are bit wowed easily for gw's recent models. Have you not seen the assmad reaction for the new archaeon or even that blood thirster with shredded wings that I can't remember the name for?

>>43537299
>just try to encourage /tg/ to paint their fucking miniatures, and you will get a rape train on you with angry teens, trying to blame others for their laziness

Yeah WIP General never existed

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>>43547894
>some of their minis actually end up being over-busy

I agree to an extent - they're not all perfect - pic related. But when they're good, they're great.

>>43547961
>Have you not seen the assmad reaction for the new archaeon
Yes, and it's such a bitchfest. That model is totally amazing.

>>43547961
>that blood thirster with shredded wings
Skarbrand, and his model isn't bad. I personally don't dig most of the Daemon stuff in general because I think it all starts to look very samey. There are only so many variations you can put on a Bloodthirster or Bloodletter, and the fluff doesn't really allow you to put them in any color besides, well, blood red.

And Lol @ people bitching about Skarbrand - should have had to assemble Terminus from Warma, cause he's all metal baby. Enjoy pinning those wings.

>>43548078
>comparing models that are decades apart.

I'm also not sure why you are suddenly shifting focus into assembly. I get the feeling that small details + model size just automatically equals good for you.

GW has good manufacturing process but their sculpts have lost a lot of touch for organic or fluid stuff. Look at the dark angel chaplain model. Rigid as fuck hood and even more rigid robes.

>>43544296
On what, sigmarines?

>>43548078
They really need to redo his model, scratch that, they need to redo ALL the Chaos characters. Ahriman and Kharn are showing their age, and I know quite a few people who converted 30k Kharn rather than buy the actual 40k one.

As for the daemon thing, I blame that on GW's obsession with Khorne. If they actually flexed their creativity with Tzeentch then maybe we'd get some interesting shit. But apparently the Blood God sells well enough for them.

>>43548219
>Look at the dark angel chaplain model.
Shit dude, look at the meganobs. They're all standing with their legs rigid, like they're trying not to let out a big greasy shit in their nice new mega armor, compared to the old models that actually had them implying movement.

>>43538435

psst...hey kid....prrrrriiiimmmmaaarrrcccchhh.

>>43549935
He was born from human pussy, not Emp's incubator.

>>43549935
sure, sure.

>>43537504
It doesn't look worse. It's better. Top teir fantasy art level.

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Why is no one talking about Mr.Endtimes himself and his new model?

>>43540236

What rules are there to make old players leave?

AoS has seen my local area move to Kings of War - not necessarily because we think AoS is bad (we played it pretty solid for 3 months) but because there isn't a 'hook'. Without major event support there isn't that tournament prep, nor is there a drive to improve because you're only improving in the context of house ruled comp.

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>>43555142

The small collection of rules you need to discuss with your opponent prior to playing the game to make sure you both have a good time.

AOS requires you to actually converse with your opponent and figure out what you agree on. Measuring from base vs model, general army size, summoning rules, scenario rules, etc...

This can be compared to a setting wherein both players are expected to know the rules thoroughly ahead of time, no matter how intricate or vague.

AOS is designed specifically with several holes in the rules in the same way that there are plenty of Pen and Paper RPGs with holes in the rules so the Game Master can exercise some discretion. Moreover, some rules can or should be taken as suggestion. There is of course literally a section in the AOS rulebook - the last item in the rulebook listed as "THE MOST IMPORTANT RULE" that effectively says paraphrased, "do whatever makes the most sense or most fun."

Of course that would require some form of creativity, thought, or social ability to work things out with your opponent to find a way to have a good time, and GW probably overestimated their previously existing fanbase insofar as they expected them to have a modicum of decency about them rather than exist as a collection of thirsty nerds desperate to get a phonebook-thick set of rules that require you to calculate ten different variables to determine whether or not someone wins a combat or not.

All of this so they can min-max their tiny plastic army men in an effort to be "better than" their opponent, when they fail to realize that there is no "better" in AOS. The game is about telling a story with YOUR DUDES whoever they might be. Why the FUCK do you think there are already like 36+ different scenarios between all the books released? Every one of those scenarios follows the fluff exactly. Every one of them reflects a major battle. God damn it gets my dick hard just thinking about it when I think that MY DUDES are fighting in these

>>43555142

AOS abandoned such traditional things as points values and ranked movement.

While run on the same basic skeleton, its a very different game to traditional Warhammer.

>>43554577
We talked about he model. Now we are more interested in the lore behind it.

>>43555342
Can your head be shoved any farther up your fucking asshole dude?

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>>43553992
Bullshit. The new art looks like compete ass compared to the old stuff which is full of grit and emotion. Pre 8e art blows AOS shit out of the water, and like all Oldhammer art looks so good I'd actually mount that shit in frame if I ever got my hands on a printout.

>>43536125
>not spotting excellent satire

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>>43556816
>have higher res image
>but it's cropped
Man, why. It's best with the full thing.

>>43556816
>>43556835
Why are they staring off into the distance as if they are don't want to look at each other?

>>43535140
>What is /tg/'s opinion on the game and new setting?

First, the game. The game's just plain bad, pick your reason why. No points, very little tactical depth, autism rules that encourage you to scream memes. It's not even any cheaper.

As for the setting? Total trash. There's literally nothing to care about any more. The sigmarines are boring, faceless, inhuman. Almost everyone you cared about is dead. Everywhere you did is dead. I'd put the new setting around "spelljammer with furries" levels of bad.

>It is the success GW hoped it would be?

Objectively, no. Product isn't moving and this is reflected in LGSes discounting stock they can't move save to 40k converters.

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>>43556835
I only have the cropped image.

Also, the old Chaos by Adrian Smith and friends makes the shit AOS shoveled out look like it was drawn by a child.

>>43535224
>It's not really a replacement for Fantasy in tone or in function

This. It's like replacing A Song of Ice and Fire with Power Rangers.

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>>43556857

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>>43556865

>>43549591
I think whoever is the creative designer for GW really needs to study form in an art class.

GW's aesthetics recently have made very critical errors in form because they've focused so much on the detail rather than thinking of how it will look and function overall. Taurox is an example of not understanding basic machine design, and not understanding that you can't put backward slope on a vehicle. It makes it look slow and weak.

Orkanaut is example of not understanding how bipedal motion work

Dark angel chaplain is not understanding how fabric works.

Nagaash is not understanding how to direct the eye.

>>43539714
If iteration #57923045 of "Glowing warrior dude in front of giant monster" is the coolest picture you've ever seen, you clearly haven't seen many pictures.

You can probably find similar pictures of equal or higher quality in MTG cards dating back at least a decade.

>>43541374
WHFB not making sales can be chalked up to their jew pricing and 8th being terrible.

You do realize that Total Warhammer is the most anticipated Total War ever? There's a real thirst apparently for Warhammer Fantasy, GW just priced its customers to death.

>>43556857
>tfw I miss the old Wayne England and Mark Gibbons inks most
not the best art, but it was a funky style mixed in with the more gritty stuff

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>>43556993
It's even worse in 40K. We got teased with some legitimately good looking shit in the 6th Edition Chaos Space Marine Codex- probably the only good thing about that book. Then when the seventh edition hit the art quality immediately took a dive after the Blood Angel codex.

Have you seen the Blood Angels and Dark Angels Codices? Compare the art. DA may have gotten a buff, but the art they got is horrid.

GW needs to cut the shit out with the crummy photoshop spam and go back to either digital paintings or actual lineart done by hand.

>>43557034
Oh wow, this is really bad.
Is his left arm dislocated and floating above his torso?

It's a shame because I was considering getting into WHFB, my cousins used to play and let us look at the models

>>43557034
maybe someone cut his arm off and his head shrunk in shock

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>>43557053
It's new Imperial hover tech.

There's a lot of hit or miss going on right now as well. Blood Angels was rad even if they rules sucked, look at pictured. Then there's the Daemonkin Codex, which has some good looking art similar to the digital paintings of mid-hammer, and then there's more of that shitty photoshop bullshit.

>>43556915
Then how come 40k is carrying that company? It suffers from just as many problems

>>43540236
I think GWs decision to alienate old fans was foolishly one sided.

There are quite a lot of older players who grew up playing both Warhammer and 40k, and now because of what GW did to Warhammer a lot of them (myself included) aren't going to give GW another penny.

I'm done buying 40k
For us to accept what GW did to WHFB sets a shitty precedent, like if we roll over and take it now there's nothing to stop GW doing what they did to WHFB to 40K in the future.

I would have prefered GW to end Warhammer completely instead of mutilating it into some hollow bastard creation; AOS is an insult to the memory of Warhams.

>>43542751
GW are never getting enough penny of me. After AOS I refuse to ever buy another model from them again for either WHFB or 40K.
In short fuck them

>>43557203
It really doesn't.
The equivalent for 40k would be if they changed say a Tactical Squad's minimum size to be 20 space marines.

>>43556853
I want to double-down on this.

The rules. Encourage you. To act like a spastic retard.

Just sadness. I'm just sad. Pretty sure this guy mirrors my mood and opinion on most of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVqSw8UqXEA

>>43541213
>The only thing they share are characters and races...


This is what really rustle my jimmies. They pretty much scrapped the Old World altogether, but kept some characters and old models. Somehow the old gang survived two apocalypses and AoS can't be viewed as independent setting because they simply were two cheap to start completely new product line. It is just so lazy.

I wait when they repackage the old Mordheim starter zillionth time as "Red Blades" or some shit like that.

>>43547894
>>43547701
The style and heroic scale is vomit inducing, though. And the markup of their plastic models is stupendously high. Simply not worth the money.

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>>43556816
AoS has some pretty awesome art too. Definitely worth framing

>>43559134
Is that Grimnir?

>>43537504
Less gothic and more He-man. I'm not a fan.

>>43559278
Yes.

>>43560355
that sucks

>>43559134
>that
>worth framing
You drunk? There're youghioh cards better than that mess

>>43560387
Why?

So, how long before Sigmar is reinstated as one of the missing primarchs?
It's pretty obvious GW only cares about 40k now.

>>43560770
>So, how long before Sigmar is reinstated as one of the missing primarchs?

He never was.

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>>43560667
Cuz ithat art is shit. Would you rather compare that 12yo fantasy with this?

>>43555342
>AOS is designed specifically with several holes in the rules in the same way that there are plenty of Pen and Paper RPGs with holes in the rules so the Game Master can exercise some discretion

Never have I heard a more bullshit reason why a game had shit rules. Tabletop rpgs need it because you can literally do anything you can imagine. Tabletop minis have a set amount of actions and no matter how much you try and convince your opponent " my last remaining warrior climbs the wall, and throws daggers down at the enemy so they cant fight back" its not going to come true. You have well and truly drunk the coolaid, then went back for another cup before the affects can kick in.

>>43561092
>Cuz ithat art is shit.

How?

>Would you rather compare that 12yo fantasy with this?

The two pieces are obviously trying to convey different things.

>>43535140

>Pros:
I dont see any.


>Cons
Garbage ruleset.
Lazy, fan-fic tier fluff.
cash grab release schedule (options for unit X released 1 month after unit X was released).
Free basic rules, but if you want the full experience you'll need these pricey books.
A cornerstone of TT gaming was given up on and replaced with babies first TT.
Precedent for the shittiest ruleset in TT is being set.

Its shit, and will be a failure. GW is out of touch with the industry and its customers. They seem to feel they are in control, what they say goes, and if you dont like it - theres the door. But, by their own numbers: they have a shrinking customer base the past 4 years in a row, and they are losing marketshare at a frightening pace.

I love the 40k setting, and I love WHFB. Watching corporate moneygrubbers with no vision destroy these games and the company is not fun or satisfying. But since theyve doubled down on their strategy, and made it clear this is how its going to go down.. I would like to see the end come sooner rather than later.

>>43561288
>Free basic rules, but if you want the full experience you'll need these pricey books.
Is this bizarro world? How is that a negative? The only thing you really need the books for is for a passive bonus for taking certain combinations of units. Compared to the old way where you had to either buy an expensive ass core rulebook (or even more expensive starter set that may or may not have armies/minis you actually want), and seperate army books for each army you may want to play.

>>43561460
Because 'free rules' is misleading.
'Basic rules are free' would be accurate.

Though Im not sure that collection of words qualifies as rules to play a game.

>>43561181
>The two pieces are obviously trying to convey different things.

>fat people are beautiful in their own way too.

No, they're not.

>>43561460
It was not difficult to find the small rulebooks alone or to resell the minis you didn't want of a starter set.
Armybooks and rulebooks were products with a certain quality of content, the price, despite still awfully high, was more justified.

>>43561460

The books also have the scenarios which is the only thing that makes the game remotely interesting.

>>43555342
Very well put, if a bit vitriolic. AOS is clearly intended to be a sort of a roleplaying wargame, almost, not just a wargame. It doesn't have a points system because the game isn't about having competitive matches that must be seen as "fair," it's about playing out scenarios that tell a story.
Kind of reminds me of 4e D&D, in that 4e had the gm using a points system to create perfectly fair fights, whereas other editions of D&D only provide guidelines, because ultimately it's not about having fair fights, it's about telling an interesting story.

At the end of the day, neither approach can be said to be better than the other, it's just a matter of personal preference.They're different types of game.

It's certainly interesting that GW have chosen to take this new approach. They could have tried to shift the game towards being scenario focused while still retaining a point system, but instead got rid of points entirely in order to force the change, in spite of the fact this would obviously piss off those who prefer the competitive way of playing. One must assume this decision was based on the fact that catering to their existing fanbase wasn't profitable enough, and also meant competing with rival games, whereas this new approach means they are no longer competing with those games, but are rather entering into a new field, of which they are the sole current example, and thereby potentially attract a new audience of people who prefer this new style of game.
I guess the success of this gambit will all depend on whether or not there is actually an audience for a roleplaying wargame, and if so, if that audience is bigger than the audience for a competitive wargame. And, of course, how successfully they can market to and harness this theoretical audience, assuming it exists.

>>43563292
I suppose this also factors into why they rebooted the setting so completely. The old world was established as a specific time and place, with limits, whereas the new setting is timeless and infinite. More room to tell a greater variety of stories, with no pre-planned ending in sight. No one knows where the story of AOS might go, the possibilities for new stories and new story direction is more open. It's a new story, just beginning, not an old one that's already been told, which you need to catch up on. Far more friendly to newer players, which is important for the lore to be, if you're making the story such a big part of the appeal of the game.

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>>43563337
Archaon, Lord of the End Times, yet lives. He is marshaling his forces for a great and final war.

AoS timeline will freeze the moment Archaon is about to launch his great invasion like it was in the old world.

>>43563497
I doubt it.

>>43560667
Not that guy but let me use my useless degree. There is no sense of scale or motion to the picture and the eye does not sufficiently move within the picture.

Also the scene is confusing. Where is the red man jumping to? The perspective on the legs show that he's jumping right and to the front but the character's target is behind him. Also, what is the anatomy of the monster? The leg on the left, is it the fore leg? If so, what is the lump coming forward beneath the red man? Is it the neck or is it the arm? Where are the shoulders on that beast? How is it that big with no shoulders to support the legs?

Thirdly, how big are those flying things? Perspective wise they get super small near the monster and when they get close it's still smaller than the man.

Finally, where is the ground plane? The monster and the hillside just disappear on the left and right is all sky. Are they fighting on a 45 degree mound while framed on a ratio that demans 30 degree slope at most?

Too many uncertain questions are asked and paintings like jokes should require no explanation.

>>43538912
>Sega
>Games Workshop
I personally expected shit like this.

>>43563770
>red man
>Grimnir
>man
Discarded

>>43563770
You're right, your degree is useless.

>>43564545
I don't know I don't care. Red humanoid. Red woman. Red forest person. Red orangutan. Red gorilla. Clifford. Red dwarf.

>>43558652
Though lets not forget that the newer models/characters are much more suited for the new system anyway

>>43564855
There's no need to be upset. If you're this sensitive about people pointing out when you're wrong, maybe you shouldn't try to lecture people.

>>43566181
I don't know who that is nor do i care. All i care is that it's not a good artwork. The name of the red man is irrelevant to whether the red man is drawn well.

>>43567087
You keep saying you don't care, but if that were true, you wouldn't bother replying. You need to work through these emotional problems, anon. They'll eat you up inside.

>>43567277
I'll reply to any reply chain that I was part of or will have something to say provided I understand the words in the post.

Also you are just shitposting for sake of doing it now.

>>43561891
Again more subjective opinions presented as fact by a bitter baby

>>43567277
>>43568202

Posts like these are why I stay away from AoS - if this is the player base, well I certainly don't want to be involved.

>>43568420
Please stay off /tg/ in general

>>43568420
That's just /tg/ in general. It's autistic against any dissenting opinion.

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>>43539714
You should check more.

>>43563740
You doubt the Nevermore?!

>>43568202

>but it's subjective
People like you are what is ruining critical thinking.
Objectivity can and does exist, don't you get it?

>>43564570

Yet his points are valid: Scale, proportions and composition were barely treated in the artist's mind and the results are visible.

The art is showing the same symptoms as the rest of GW products: Superficiality, cheap use of great potential, lack of inspiration and, most of all, little time spent on it.
"they will eat it anyway" is the obvious stance of GW.