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Why do fighters and paladins in D&Dland generally prefer

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Why do fighters and paladins in D&Dland generally prefer heavy armor instead of agility in light armor, in a world where the merest touch from the hand or spell-ray of a caster, demon, devil, or other magical creature is more devastating than any solid weapon? Let alone a dragon's breath.

Is it just the tired old "knight in shining armor" cliché?
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>>43443968
>in a world where the merest touch from the hand or spell-ray of a caster, demon, devil, or other magical creature is more devastating than any solid weapon?

Those things are all considered "very rare" for frequency of appearance, while things like bandits, goblins, and ogres which require heavy armor to counter are considered "common" or "uncommon".
>>
Because they're stats would never be high enough to dodge a wizards spell ray demons touch attacks regardless.

And armor doesn't affect reflex saves anyway. And either way they'd take half damage.
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>>43443992
>require heavy armor to counter

Not with D&Dland Dexterity logic.
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>>43443968
Every campaign should have armor as DR.
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>>43443968
any serious armour should have resistance to magic, or provide defence against common elemental attacks. if you're living in a world full of magic it's common sense to design your armour to protect against that.
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>>43443968
Dunno about DnD, but in Pathfinder it's because:

Increasing your defense by way of buying heavy armor only requires money. Increasing your defense by way of dodge bonuses requires points in Dexterity, which are VERY hard to come by.

Even if you start out with 20 dex (+5 dodge bonus), by the time you're level 20, you've only gotten enough stat boosts to get it to 22 (+6).

Considering the best armor that lets you have a dexterity bonus of 6 only gives 2 defence on it's own... yeah. You could invest tons of build points into maxing out dodge for an end armor class of 8... or you could buy full plate which gives you 9 armor and one dexterity armor for a maximum of 10, then put all those dexterity points into strength instead for massive damage.
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>>43444005
>ITT
>Players who have never used the surprise round Flat-footed rules and been up against intelligent enemies
>Players who assume full dex to AC before they've moved even if they're not surprised

Heavy Armor ensures safety if you fail a Perception test and are surprised. It ensures safety if you're *not surprised* and still roll low on initiative.
The Dex Fighter can be absolutely pummeled in the first round if they don't go first. That's why armor is considered good, especially early on.
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>>43444109
What's being said in OP is why those fighters don't just go Dexterity or something.
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>>43444117
Armor good early on? Enjoy your 1.5k plate armor.
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>>43443968
>Why do fighters and paladins in D&Dland generally prefer heavy armor instead of agility in light armor
the same reason fighters in real life preferred wearing armor instead of cloth and leather

You get in a fight, you're going to take hits.
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>>43444117
Haven't played in a few additions. Is this new, or am I stupid?
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>>43443968
Because most DnD AC is illogical anyway, basically you get AC either by having heavy armor or through feats.

It should be done like in Iron Heroes where AC(Agility Class) is for dodging and armor gives you DR(Damage reduction) per hit based on it's heaviness. It's much more like a scale where as you approach one end you get farther from the other.
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>>43443968

>>43444109 pretty much this. The only time you really wana be relying on dexterity as your main defense is when you need dexterity for something else, as many Rogue builds do, or you can't wear armor at all without huge penalties (casters).

That being said, the entire system is stupid. Armor should just give damage reduction instead of hit-chance defense. Anyone who doesn't correct this via homebrew is an idiot or a new GM who has yet to realize how dumb the system is. Also armor class creates a fuckton of problems later on in high level play where it doesn't really scale well enough to function the way it's supposed to.
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HEAVY armor is a terrible choice for adventurers in general. It takes forever to put on and take off, which is necessary because you're penalized for sleeping in it. It was designed for battlefields where swords and arrows and spearpoints are coming from all directions, and thus maximum protection is more important than any tradeoff in mobility or visibility.

Medium armor is the best for dungeoneering. A breastplate over chain at most.
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>>43443968
Sometimes fighters do and they're called archers.
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>>43443968
Not all fighters/paladins use heavy armor. Just try to build a dex fighter/paladin
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>>43444109
>>43444200
With DSP in Pathfinder, there's no reason to take Strength at when when you can be a Weapon Finesse/Deadly Agility badass and take an actually useful stat, Dexterity.
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>>43444222
Tell me more about the "DSP". I was under the impression that only Unchained Rogue got dex-to-damage, but I haven't actually played in months so I could be misrembering.
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>>43443968
>Why do things in a fantasy game make logical sense
This is how stupid you sound right now
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>>43444222
What if you don't want to be a lanky Dex-nigger?
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>>43444008
I disagree, in game systems where one or two blows are very often fatal, Armor as miss chance makes more sense. You know, like low level DnD.
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>>43444235
Deadly Agility gets you Dex to damage.

Now you can dump the fuck out of Strength, get 1k Muleback Cords for +8 Strength for carrying capacity, buy a Vest of Resistance from DSP's Steelforge for your resistance bonus, and bump up your Dexterity for attack/damage/AC/initiative/skills.
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>>43444266
But what if sufficient armour makes it so that those one or two hits AREN'T fatal? Y'know. By reducing the damage... As damage reduction.
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>>43444235
Third party publisher that made Path of War+Psionics content for Pathfinder. Great stuff all around. Really bridges the gap between casters and martial.
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>>43444279
Well shit... after reading that, I have to agree with OP that there's pretty much zero reason not to just spam dexterity.

Except, you know, actually roleplaying. I mean, 7 strength on a big burly Orc fighter just doesn't make alot of sense when a 16 year old human boy is apparently a 10.
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>>43443968
Because in Basic and AD&D Heavy Armor is the best for avoiding that shit since it still has to break through your armor which doesn't impede your dexterity.
Because in 4e, you'll get around the same or slightly more Defense by wearing heavy armor.
Because in 5e, if you're not gifted in stat boosting gear or are a specific min-maxed build, it's a great way to get a high AC, and those abilities have to break through your armor anyway.

There's really only one edition where heavy armor fucks with your ability to avoid magic, and it's considered one of the worst editions of the game.
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>>43444284
That changes the mechanics then.

It allows for things with low damage to actually do full damage if an opening is found. Getting stabbed in vitals with a dagger is almost always fatal in pre-sanitation periods. It is also almost always incapacitating in a conflict if it is a penetrating blow to a major body part. Having armor class as miss chance makes the game more simulation like. Armor as DR ignores all of that without a lot of extra rules.
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>>43444350
Two feats is also a lot to spend unless you are a fighter. But OP is talking about a paladin who has much few and better things to spend them on.
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>>43443968
>Is it just the tired old "knight in shining armor" cliché?

Pretty much. D&D drops high magic into a "standard medieval setting" without updating anything else. Plus, the armor-HP system is irreparable.
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>>43444166
It may be true that armor can only blunt the damage of certain types of hits (e.g. maces), but it is equally true that some types of wound are completely negated by proper armor (e.g. arrows [at least made nothing but a very insubstantial bruise, at worst]). The whole thing is rather complicated and it's difficult for pen&paper to emulate it with any real consistency without becoming too much of an investment in tables, percentages, ratios, etc.. There's going to be a lot of illogical simplification.
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>>43444166

That's how I house ruled it, d20 modern style class defense bonus with DR from armor.
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>>43444143
Been the case pretty much always m8

>>43444117
>You have to take the best armor or you're not taking armor!
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>>43444222
The downside is two feats, which is a decently hefty price.
Some builds simply can't afford that.
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>>43443968
Because armor helps against everything else you absolute retard.

Being agile is great if you're dodging some guy who can kill you with a touch, but it's sure as hell not going to save you from that arrow that you didn't see coming, and what do you fight more often? Deathtouch wizards or people with weapons?

Besides, you're still plenty agile in armour, you just get tired faster, but D&D is a terrible game that doesn't bother with having any kind of armour mechanics that make sense.
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How does martial in D&D work
>Take any logic
>Put it on the bin
>Pretend the house isn't on fire
>And all is fine
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>>43443968
Your average suit of "Heavy" armor only weighs like 30-35 pounds, or your average plate carrier and loaded vest, but because the weight is distributed across your body, its super easy to handle.
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>>43444053
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>>43444610
>I don't understand the game
>But addition makes my head hurt and I'm 10wpmguy
>The system is shit!
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>>43443968
Fuck off dexfag
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>>43443968
For this reason >>43444655

Honestly, tho, in our world dex is not a defensive stat as much as it is an offensive one. So people would wear armor if they could and needed it to survive.
In D&D land a guy with 20 dex will simply wear trousers and be as hard to hit as the guy who is wearing a chainmail and has 10 dex.
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>>43443968
>in a world where the merest touch from the hand or spell-ray of a caster, demon, devil, or other magical creature is more devastating than any solid weapon?
Because one does not exclude the other. The existence of magic does not exclude the existence of arrows and crossbow bolts.

This is on par with asking why soldiers wear helmets when artillery can utterly crush them regardless of what they wear.
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>>43444403
> It allows for things with low damage to actually do full damage if an opening is found.
Called shots targeting weak spots.

> Getting stabbed in vitals with a dagger is almost always fatal in pre-sanitation periods. It is also almost always incapacitating in a conflict if it is a penetrating blow to a major body part.
Yeah, on people with +0 Fort Saves and/or not a lot of hp. Could also qualify as a sneak attack.

> Having armor class as miss chance makes the game more simulation like.
No. Armor as DR with a way to bypass it by aiming less vital areas, a.k.a. Called Shot to armor weak spots is much more realistic. Armor absorbs part of a blow. Of course, it implies loss of HP is not only actual wounds but includes bruises and fatigue.
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>>43443968
> Why do fighters and paladins in D&Dland generally prefer heavy armor instead of agility in light armor, in a world where the merest touch from the hand or spell-ray of a caster, demon, devil, or other magical creature is more devastating than any solid weapon?
They do as long as it works. When facing an opponent with no miss chance and if armor do not absorb damage, they will put it aside and keep their movement speed.

Characters that do not have rolled their stats usually tend to be more efficient when they get weaknesses and somehow patch them. That's the role of armor.

> Is it just the tired old "knight in shining armor" cliché?
Why do armies around the world use protective gear? The cliché is a cliché for a reason.

THAT SAID, the game they choose to play favors that kind of behavior. So it's back to "Have you tried not playing DnD?". This is a pretty shit reason to switch, but switching itself might not be a bad thing.
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>>43444610
You mean casters?
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>>43448949
This is exactly what he meant by "a lot of extra rules".
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>>43448020
Actually a guy with 20 dex and nothing is easier to hit than a guy in Chainmail (15 and 16 AC respectively).
That's why a guy with 20 dex wil be wearing Studded Leather Armor to bring his AC up to 18.

Tl;dr, even peak humans in the DnD settings use armor, you know nothing and are spreading misinformation.
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>>43448949
"Weak spots" aren't really some static thing that exists. Especially in low level games, the ability to predict an opponent's movement to the point where you know exactly where a chink in their armor would be (underarm, neck, etc) and set up an attack to penetrate that point without them protecting it denotes a MASSIVE difference in skill between the two combatants, and that's not something that's represented in DnD as something like a +5 difference in BAB... a huge difference in combat stats.
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>>43444109
Check your references.

Starting at 20 DEX, you could get up to 25 by level 20 (1 Ability Point every four levels). That's a bonus of +7.

Add in a wondrous belt to boost your DEX by 6 for a bonus of +10. Expensive, but not too hard to do given that you're level 20 at this point.

Darkleaf Cloth increases the Max Dex of armor by 2, allowing for Darkleaf Padded Armor with an AC bonus of 1 and a max dex of 10. That, on its own, would be an AC of 21.

Now, I'm not saying your argument is wrong, just pointing out some inaccuracies in your math.
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>>43443968
Disconnect between mechanics and fluff.
Or rather between intended and actual effect of mechanics.

D&D has a history of being bad with that kind of stuff.
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>>43443968
Because its stylish and offers good protection. It's also imposing.
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>>43443968

Because we play 5e, where you don't arbitrarily lose the majority of your AC so the wussies can reliably hit people with rays.
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>>43449106
Either one works like that because of how the other one works, since without DM fuckery (and we'll ignore that since a good DM could run any game, yes, even fatal and have fun), even in AD&D, since armor is all kinds of derp.

>AD&D
Kinda balanced, but caster needs DM help to level up (druid) plus party help or DM given leeway and help. Meleeguys are very good.
>3.5
Caster is broken because martial is bad.
Martial is bad because caster is broken.
Most people just castrate one when it'd be easier to just go for AD&D then since 3.5 feels like a game where noncasters where kinda added with superglue at a last moment notice.
>4E
n-not muh d-d-a-an-daaaaa, balances on giving everyone piepowers so they can actually fight. Heavy fight oriented.
>5E
3.5 less retarded brother.

Also
>3.5/5ED&D settings
>Making sense without massive tailoring and additional rules
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>>43444691
We're talking about D&D not anima here anon.
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>>43443968
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>>43450713
Martials were fine if you built them from 1 or 2 level of 4 to 5 other martial classes.
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>>43450997
That's not fair, anon. Some martial classes were worth taking for a whole four levels.
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>>43450997
>Martials are fair, if you play them early-as-fuck or play them with other martials
So you didn't read or comprehend the 3.5 block, nice.
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>>43451183
No, I was saying that a decent martial character is a multiclass of at least 3 classes. Sometimes 5 or 6 different classes. A big issue with them was that the features were often frontloaded, and then scaled rather uselessly without ever unlocking anything worth having as you went up. As such, a decent martial character just took level 1 to 5 levels of many different martial classes. It's still fucking ridiculous that you should need to construct such an amalgamation, mind.
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>>43444005
If you don't have some sort of class bonus that works in light armor, you won't be able to approach a heavy armor wearer in AC. In Pathfinder, a Fighter 7 can wear mithral full plate for +9 armor, +5 Dexterity, and -1 ACP (-0 with the Armor Expert trait) and still move at full speed. Even a non-Fighter can get +9 armor and +3 Dexterity, and that's not even counting the bonus from magic armor and shields. Add in a +1 bonus to the armor and a +1 heavy shield, and that's another +4.

Please, feel free to show me a light-armor Dexterity build that can match 28 AC without off-the-wall min-maxing shenanigans.

(Note that I'm not including things like Rings of Protection or Amulets of Natural Armor, since that's something everybody can get.)
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>>43451279
Nah, mate, even with Tome of Battle throwing d12 hit dice and tons of abilities at martials, they're still not as good as any of the casters. 3.5 was incredibly unbalanced.
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>>43444219
A fighter with mithral full plate has a +5 max Dexterity bonus, and full plate is still the best armor for them, even if their Dex. is higher than +5.
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>>43451387
Oh, absolutely. Martials don't have a way to compare. It's just that, you can construct something halfway decent as an amalgamation of various martial classes, assuming the DM hand waves multiclass penalties and allows for Partial BAB calculation.

Like, even without the issue of casters being so much stronger, 3.5 martial classes were fucking boring unless you did some fairly clever shit to give them a range of capability beyond what was offered by any single martial class.
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>>43444140
I have 19AC in my 5E game right now with the Chainmail I started with and NOTHING fucking hits me. The DM has started to throw some crazy fucking shit at us all because most enemies simply can't hit me at our level.
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Because wearing light armor makes you a turbo fag.

>>43444140
1.5k is pretty easy to get in D&D early on.
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Daily reminder that casters being strong is not at all because of their offensive/defensive potential, and that in fact their oft-lauded combat tricks come down to literal 50-50 success rates, and failure leads to them being squashed.
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>>43451629
A 50/50 chance of winning the fight each turn is much better than a 50/50 chance of dealing a bit of damage.
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>>43443968
Because D&D (armour) mechanics suck and they can't do that properly after almost 40 years of game development
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>>43443968
You take a race with a racial SLA to qualify for Crafting feats and become Iron Man with high AC, magical defenses via armor enchants, damage on weapons of various sorts modded for different situations, and make sure to nab Extraordinary Artisan and the like to cut costs and time requirements.

You're no wizard but you've got a kit to be ready for anything past mid-levels and if you have enough brain cells to do this right you'll have nabbed anti-dispelling tricks to avoid a disjunction-junction-fucking-up-your-function.
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>>43452191
So an Eberron Artificer?
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>>43452069
It's not necessarily better when that failed 50% leads to you being shredded into bits. A caster within 30ft who just missed their save or die is often a dead caster without outside intervention.
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>>43444350
I'm one of the writers for DSP's Path of War.

There are plenty of STR options we have as well. The Brutal Slayer Stalker gets to add STR to AC and Reflex Saves. The Zweihander Sentinel Warder gets to replace most uses of DEX with INT. And the feat Defensive Expertise adds your shield bonus to Touch AC and Reflex.

We try to make as many options viable as possible.
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>>43452299
Damn. If only casters had the ability to turn their skin to stone, or turn invisible, or fly, or conjure magical shields, or turn into a bear, or summon an army of bears, or wear heavy armor if they're not arcane, or heal themselves, or summon fog, or teleport, or enhance their speed to run more quickly...
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>>43443968
You can totally go light armor dex fighter in 5e.
Of course, if you're willing to eat the feats, you can go Heavy Armor Caster with stupid high AC as well.
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>>43452504
Don't really listen to this thread.
Your addition of Deadly Agility doesn't make Dex an end-all be-all even for those without the options you listed.
Strength builds with armor still gain a higher damage output than Deadly Agility users in exchange for their weakness to touch weapons.

Keep doing good work.
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>>43452537
Except in 5e, there aren't touch spells that ignore armor. It all targets AC, which is a good thing, since a Shield protects you just as well from arrows as it does from firebolts.
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>>43452590
>getting free Shields at-will as a level 18 Wizard
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>>43452582
I know we do good work. I've had this conversation more than I can count, its not near as big a deal as most people believe.

I just wanted to illustrate some more stuff we bring to the table.
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>>43443968
Nothing wrong with a little heavy metal, after all,
Very few escape my grasp.
Even in death, my powers continue.
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>>43443968
Because game balance. Sometimes somebody just needs to take a hit, si they need that constitution, and gimping their strength for dexterity is just kind of fucking gay rogue shit. Not everyone rolls perfect stats and I'd rather invest in a higher wisdom to up my will save to avoid mind affecting shit than up my reflex so I can avoid danage I'm comfortable taking with my beefy hit points.
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>>43452638
>finding a game that lasts until 18th level
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>>43452696
Any plans for support for throwing weapons in later DSP?
I've been wanting to play a Card Caster forever but there's just horrendous feat tax as is to make it as viable as even a featless archer.
Even an item that is better than returning (which requires you to stay still and catch the weapon) would be a great boon.
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>>43453204
There's two whole dedicated ranged disciplines, and nearly half the other disciplines have ranged friendly maneuvers.

Throwing specific support might come, but there really isn't much that can be added that doesn't already exist in throwing feats and ranged maneuvers.
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>>43453204
Oh, and you want a blinkback belt.
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>>43443968
Plate armor does not significantly impair agility or range of motion, provided it's made well.
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>>43453334
Finally, someone gets it. I need to dig up 'Somersaults in plate' again.
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>>43443968
Because while agility and light armor allows you to avoid hit like Death rays, it doesn't protect you worth a damn when you're on your back or being surrounded. In a set of Full-Plate, you can wade into a crowd and just shrug off hits from all sides.

It's a no-brainer for fighters in their given role. Let the monk or cleric deal with the mage, that's what they're good at. It's your job to deal with hordes and powerful enemies.
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>>43444142
It's funny that this approximates real life so closely.
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>>43453334
Also factoring in fantasy materials like mithral and various magical enhancements wearing plate could feel like wearing nothing at all.
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>>43443968
>n a world where the merest touch from the hand or spell-ray of a caster, demon, devil, or other magical creature is more devastating than any solid weapon? Let alone a dragon's breath.

This stuff being a common conception in the D&D worlds is a player concept. Not the original designers... except ebberon you know.

Also fighters HAVING to wear armor. Also a player conception, play what you want. That's what the designers tell you. It's the internet that shouts "B-but balance."
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>>43453673
>biggest fag in thread
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>>43453334
Not in D&D.
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>>43453828
>Not in WotC's monstrosity
ftfy

Seriously, play a good edition.
>>
>>43453334
>>43453405

I don't know if this is what you meant, but I've shown this one pretty often. Does a great job of showing how over-exaggerated the overall penalties for armor are in many systems, for anything other than Stealth checks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hlIUrd7d1Q
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>>43453673
>except ebberon you know.

Except it's not common in Eberron either. In Eberron, low-level utility magic is everywhere, but high-level magic is still very rare, and even low-level combat magic isn't super common. Basically, Eberron recreates steampunk with magic replacing steam technology, and most of the "magic is everywhere" flavor comes from low-level magic items and the like.
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>>43453314
Blinkback Belts unfortunately don't solve the card throwing problem (expensive ammo, destroyed on hit, doesn't RAW work with blinkback or returning... despite Card Caster getting that...). I guess I'm more wondering if there's going to be any Harrow support since the idea is great but executed terribly currently.
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>Thinks I can't face tank a magic missile
Come at me peasant
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>>43443968
Because the primary purpose of armor is still to fight other humanoids.
>>
If you think about it, why would a suit of armor or a shield not offer protection against a fireball? Even full plate was usually worn with non-conductive padding, and while lightning bolts were not usually a common occurrence during battle the padding would provide better protection than being naked.

It would make more sense to me that armor would offer protection against everything at the drawbacks of being encumbered.
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>>43449107
> Called Shot is a rule being used in our group right now. You would be adding one (1) area to be targeted. That is all.

Called Shot (Weak Spot)
A called shot to a weak spot attempts to aim at a chink in the armored defense of the opponent. It is special as it does not have a static penalty like other called shots. For each -1 penalty you take on the attack roll, your called shot ignores 1 point of damage reduction the creature has. You get an additional -2 penalty if your weapon is the same size category as the target. You get a +2 bonus if you're using a piercing weapon.

> DR, and ways to circumvent it, are already implemented in the system. You would only allow PCs to make use of it.
> The shot in the guts add literally nothing to the game. Most people die from a shot to the gut, well, lvl 2 heroes / major NPCs are not "most people".

I guess it forces you to CHANGE some rules, especially as Paizo's idea of armor as DR is completely retarded. Also makes the Improved Called Shot feat mandatory for every non-maxed character.
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>>43454074
And swim checks.
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>>43454074
There has to be a way to make that armor less loud.
>>
Why aren't armored mages a more common thing?
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>>43443968
Is that true?

Heavy armor or a shield would probably protect you from a fireball or whatever magic blast shit they throw at you, but not in D&D because they're too busy jerking off on magic. Against dragon fire, you'd probably get roasted in your armor if you took it full on, but a tower shield could probably protect you if you turtled it.

If I shoot one of those firework fireballs at you, and you hold up a trash can lid on it, it's gonna block it.

Plus, you gotta remember that most of the time, you aren't trying to block dragon's fire. You're trying to block spears and shit. Armor and shields are useful for that.

Plus, magic armor.

Real question is: why aren't you wearing armor?
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>>43460851
So if I do Called Shot (Weak Spot) with a dagger or a spear, I get a +1 bonus (or no bonus if they're the same size category as my weapon) to my attack roll *and* I get to automatically ignore 1 point of damage reduction?

Why would you not be doing this all the time? What's the drawback?
>>
>>43443968
It's a system designed to keep martial classes tied to reality while letting everything else fulfill it's role of fantasy roleplay.
>>
>>43460893
Well, the video doesn't really show that, which is why I didn't mention it.

>>43460923
I mean, you could put something in all the joints, but that would go right back around to making it hard to move in. Generally, though, you're not meant to be sneaking around in full plate, it's a battlefield armor, so making a lot of noise isn't an issue.
>>
>>43460996
>Why would you not be doing this all the time?

You wouldn't. That's why piercing weapons are the best thing to have to overcome heavy armor.
>>
>>43463110
I kind of want to see what would happen if martials actually had the same scale of power that casters do in terms of out-of-combat utility.
Like, just straight-up breaking down an iron gate or something.
I want my Final Fantasy skills.
>>
>>43463382
Have you taken a look at Legend by Rule of Cool yet?
>>
>>43463410
No, but I guess I'll look into it later.
>>
Is poisoning an evil foe okay as a Paladin?

I had an idea for a Ninja Paladin order.
>>
>>43463469
Depends on the edition? It's explicitly disallowed in 3.X, but might be fine elsewhere.
>>
>>43443968
>muh DEX
bait
>>
>>43443968
>Why do fighters and paladins in D&Dland generally prefer heavy armor
Because it is mechanically superior for their stats and classes.

>>43450103
>Disconnect between mechanics and fluff.
>Or rather between intended and actual effect of mechanics.
Actually this is the intended effect. There are a variety of rules in place especially designed to make sure that fighters and paladins wear heavy armor while casters wear dresses. Barbarians wear furs, and monks wear a gi. This is simply a case of overly restrictive rules made by spergs who wanted everyone to play their way.
>>
>>43460970
>Heavy armor or a shield would probably protect you from a fireball or whatever magic blast shit they throw at you, but not in D&D because they're too busy jerking off on magic
Actually not true. Tower shield provides cover to the wielder which protects them against many types of magic.
>>
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>>43463469
>Is poisoning an evil foe okay as a Paladin?
>>
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>>43443968
>>
>>43463488

Pathfinder.

>>43463599
Great you have now influenced me.

I don't know can't I just be from shady order that bares the necessary evils to keep the purity of the followers of the deity?
>>
has anyone ever run a game where armor counts as both miss chance and DR? was thinking of giving it a shot
>>
>>43463526
>barbarians wear furs

You mean medium armor.
>>
>>43449124
A guy wearing trousers would have other means to increase his AC.
On our team, the Barbarian is naked and has 19 AC (5 con + 4 dex).

A guy in trousers, level 4, is harder to hit than our two-handed warrior wearing full plate.

No. Peak humans in D&D don't need to use armor, they use armor if they don't have other ways to increase their AC.

Please, bite an empty water bottle. You need to milk some of that poison out of your mouth.
>>
>>43453617
Real life plate is quite light
Thread posts: 123
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