Ain't a bit unfair to judge players by world cup wins? For

>>76374053
t. Cristiano Ronaldo

>>76374053
of course it's unfair

but life is unfair

>>76374150
t. Hugo Sánchez

>>76374053
it doesnt really matter since no one rates them anyway

Of couse not, even less in modern day when football is super professional and clubs don't give a shit about the NT and almost don't let them play, so the NT manager can have the players barely 1 or 2 days before the game and can't even train (even worse for non-Europeans, who need to take a long trip and in some cases arrive the very same day of the game)

>>76374209
inb4 t. Messi

>>76374175
/thread

>>76374198
Lel

>>76374209
There's no trophy the players desire more than the World Cup

>the NT manager can have the players barely 1 or 2 days before the game and can't even train
Plain bullshit

The only people who think this argument holds any weight are Maradona/ Pele fans

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>>76374053

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>plays well for 10 straight years
>loses in the final 10 minutes of a world cup final


WELP I GUESS HE CANT BE THE GOAT NOW LOL

>>76374328
>the NT manager can have the players barely 1 or 2 days before the game and can't even train

maybe if its a friendly but who gives a shit

>>76374328
>There's no trophy the players desire more than the World Cup
Didn't deny that, it's the best trophy. Just saying it doesn't measure a player's individual quality

>Plain bullshit
Because you are European and most players from your NT play in the Italian league, the NT manager sees the players on a daily basis

>>76374053
Who judges by world cup wins? You can judge a player for choking in international play, though.

>>76374371
I agree with OP but considering the team he plays in, there's not really an excuse for his WC performance

>>76374394
It's the same for non-europeans, if the players join one day before the game it means that game is just a friendly

>>76374344
kekd

>>76374432
They join 1 or 2 days before the Copa America
For friendlies they join in the day

In the last WC they joined 4 or 5 days before the first game

>>76374371
He played 360 minutes of finals in the span of two years and didn't score a single goal or create a single chance
Has he ever gone 360 minutes without goals or assists at Barca?

>>76374328
>There's no trophy the players desire more than the World Cup
Casillas said winning La Decima was more important for him than winning the World Cup.

>>76374477
I honestly dont believe that, give me some proof

>>76374478
Barcelona are a great team, Argentina isn't even top10 on paper but they still reach final after final

If anything, they overperform

>>76374498
Messi said he'd give all his Bd'O for a trophy with Argentina

>>76374053
Eusebio carried your country to a WC semi-final in 1966. That's what GOAT-tier players do.

https://youtu.be/WoAH_7nX2hc

>>76374053
It's true. And to be honest club achievements aren't really a great way to measure individual success either. Anderson won the Premier League 4 times but it doesn't mean he's better than Gerrard. And Ballon d'Ors and other individual awards are just popularity contests rather than a way to objectively measure quality.

>>76374053

No player pre- Premier League era is relevant anyway.

>>76374537
Yes, he said something like he'd give all his titles with Barcelona for a WC, but Messi really likes the NT. He could have played for Spain but stayed with us

>>76374510
Argentina is second only to Germany and Spain on paper, it's the management and mentality that are shit

>>76374510
I honestly can't name 10 NTs better than Argentina

Germany, France, Brazil right now
Italy and Spain are not better than Argentina at the moment
Argentina is a much more serious contender for the WC than Chile
Then you've got memes like Belgium, Portugal, Colombia etc

>>76374552
>popularity contests rather than a way to objectively measure quality

Besides a few dodgy honours, the Balloon Door has been pretty consistent. As for the Ronaldo and Messi era, has anyone actually been better than them?

>>76374537
but a Bd'O is not a UCL, that is the only trophy that could compete with the World Cup
I don't consider the Bd'O a trophy at all tBh.

>>76374568
>He could have played for Spain
it was never a real possibility tBh, his house in Barcelona is like little Rosario (autists don't adapt well to changes).

>>76374574
>>76374580
Holland, Italy, Belgium, England, Brazil, Croatia, Portugal, France, Spain, Germany

The first 10 that came to my mind with better players

You seem to forget we've started Romero for 10 years and he's a benchwarmer. Our backline in the last WC was old Zabaleta (and out of position), Garay (Russian league), old Demichelis and Rojo (another benchwarmer and out of position), the mid was Biglia (plays for fucking Lazio), Pérez (not elite at all), Chinese league Lavezzi and fucking Palacio

The only good players we had were Mascherano (but plays out of position), di María and Messi

>>76374637
>England
>Italy
>Netherlands

all complete shit, this isn't the late 90s anymore

>>76374663
I'm talking about the players on paper, you have better players in all positions

Besides Messi Argentina is an average NT full of benchwarmers, players out of position and players from minor clubs

>>76374637
>Holland

kek literally the only players who would get into argentina's team would be LCIM and maybe de Vrij and Strootman. Even if they're chokers the amount of attacking talent you've got is incredible. Messi, Dybala, Higuain, Agüero, Di Maria, Pastore, Icardi, Papu Gomez the list goes on.

>>76374637
>Our backline in the last WC was old Zabaleta (and out of position), Garay (Russian league), old Demichelis and Rojo (another benchwarmer and out of position)
And yet they were the best defense of the tournament, it doesnt matter what they did in Europe, they were great with Argentina
And Romero has never been bad for the NT, he even saved the penalty that put them in the final

>>76374699
you are only naming attacking players, we can't field 5 attacking midfielders and 3 strikers

Brazil at least has world class fullbacks, we don't even have that

>>76374724
>And yet they were the best defense of the tournament, it doesnt matter what they did in Europe, they were great with Argentina
Because we had an ultra-defensive manager. We played 5 defenders with 2 defensive midfielders against fucking Bosnia

>>76374750
So? It worked
Netherlands had 7 players behind the ball all the time and they reached the SF, they stop doing that and they can't even qualify for an expanded euro
A manager has got to play according to his team's strenght, if 5 defenders is the only way for Argentina to win then so be it

>>76374637
>You seem to forget we've started Romero for 10 years and he's a benchwarmer. Our backline in the last WC was old Zabaleta (and out of position), Garay (Russian league), old Demichelis and Rojo (another benchwarmer and out of position),

that was a good defence though. even romero made 4.5 saves per goal at the world cup and won a shootout

>>76374816
>>76374797
You are confusing the argument, I just said we have average players on paper

They just overperform with the NT, we are the opposite of chockers

>>76374830
its more 50/50

your offence are def chokers

>>76374830
Losing two finals to chilel is not overperforming m8

>>76374830
>we are the opposite of chockers

2014 final says otherwise, you had countless chances to bury that game.

>>76374866
Mmm, both were in penalties

One was held in Chile and in the other we got refballed hard. Also, Chile aren't bad, they would wreck many European teams

>>76374893
But you are better than Chile and still couldnt score a goal in two finals

>>76374879
>countless
you what? it was a really hard game, Argentina had 2 or 3 chances at most and Geramany had a similar number

Germany had the best goalkeeper in the world and great defenders, it isn't so easy to score against them

I love how people talk like winning a WC was easy

>>76374918
Did you watch the finals or even watch Chile play? They are great at defending

Also, you are only focusing in the negative side, we also didn't concede a single goal

>>76374923
Not saying it's easy, but you should have won it. Germany are the masters of breaking down teams in ET so it was over by then, but your chances during normal time were much clearer.

>>76374979
It was a really close game, you are talking like Argentina dominated the whole game and then lost it. That'd be chocking, but it didn't happen like that

>>76374992
I know it was a close game but you had two one on ones. Higuain looked to be aiming for the corner flag and Messi missed by half a yard.

Tiny bit more composure and the WC was yours, how is that not choking? If it was England I'd say the exact same thing.

>>76375065
Because we weren't the favourites, no one expected us to defeat Germany. The fact that they needed extra time to defeat us says we didn't do bad

>>76375094
If you say so.

Though IIRC you were the bookies third favourites for the tournament. You underestimate your team which is frankly bizarre when you have the best player ever.

>>76374734
my point is that you atleast have that. we've only got one worldclass player in robben. and don't even get me started on fullbacks, ours are horrible.

>>76375177
See >>76374637

Yes, we have Messi. But that's pretty much it
You don't expect Wales to win the WC just because of Bale

>>76375194
Willems, Karsdorp and van der Wiel is unironically better than any Argentine fullback

For a reason we play line of 3, we don't have fullbacks

>>76374371
Cometh the hour, cometh the man my dude. A true goat rises to the occasion when it matters most