What criteria make up the GOAT of a sport? If you made a weighted

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Messi: top scorer in a year all time, holds like 30 records, top national team scorer all time, changes the way a match is played, changes defenses, changes marking, national team goes to shit without him. Excels in multiple facets, goalscoring, passing, dribbling, top vision. This is a GOAT

what is not a GOAT?
Cristiano Ronaldo:
scores and has records, but team has won without him, national team played better without him, won first international trophy without him, average or sub-par performance in everything but finishing, cannot pass, cannot dribble past a man, cannot see the game like past goats, a rapist off the field, pays to have a child. Not a goat.

and then once you have established the goat of a generation, you look and compare him to individidualities of past 'goats', once he starts to appear better than that, you get to compare him to all-time goats.

>>75732721
Titles+Stats+Memes*9001

Bmup

>>75732721
I think true GOATs transform and become the face of the sport. Its not enough to be the best player, you have to actually have normies knowing your name and to be inextricably associated with the sport.

>>75735086
David Beckham was the face of football though and good but nowhere near the best. So is he a GOAT?

You have to factor the amount of championships and the quality of competition i.e. Sampras was in a stronger era than Federror who has no backhand therefore is the better GOAT

>>75735128

that's just silly. nobody has dominated a sport as strongly as federer

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>>75732721
First of all you have to display mastery of the game. Preferably from every position.

This is why I don't think that there can ever be 1 single GOAT for American football. There can only be GOATs by position in the NFL, or potentially by side of the field (offense/defense).

Baseball is a bit like football in that regard. But the next guy that breaks the home run record and who is also one of the best pitchers in the league - he'll be baseball's GOAT.

For sports like basketball or tennis or boxing there can be a single GOAT. In those sports it's actually possible for 1 guy to dominate the entire court/ring in all phases.

I'd include hockey and soccer too if it weren't for the importance of the goalie.

This is how to determine goat

1. Dismiss all criteria not directly related to his/her actual performance. Such as looks, personality, brand value, transfer value etcetc.

2. Performance must be evaluated within their historical context. As long as skill-level, training facilities, nutrition and equipment improves over time, it would be unfair to compare messi to puskas or bolt to owens.

3. If we're talking about a team sport where a) being in a good team is beneficial to your own performance and b) there are no transfer system where the best players automatically end up in the best teams, take this limitation into account as well.

Now evaluate the following: his/her Influence on how the game is played, peak performance level, innovation, longevity, statistics and trophies (in that order)


tldr its messi

>>75735725
>Performance must be evaluated within their historical context

Why not Pele then?

I'd say Messi too tbf, but with obvious bias because we've actually seen him play.

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hey jannies if your reading this suck my dick

>>75735790
yeah, or maradona. those are the only three names i've seen on top of goat-lists. But there's no way we can make a qualified statement about pele or maradona unless we study them properly beyond youtube clips

>>75735725
>1. Dismiss all criteria not directly related to his/her actual performance. Such as looks, personality, brand value, transfer value etcetc.

lol no fucking faggot

>>75735888
>valuing surface over depth, style over substance, form over content

nice flag pal

>>75735790
If you consider Pele, you also have to consider Wilimowski, who has better stats than him in WC

Soccer - Messi
Football - Jerry Rice
Baseball - Babe Ruth
Basketball - Jordan
Hockey - Hawaiian Gretzky

>>75740781
Jerry Rice before Brady?!

>>75741151
Brady is a Belicheck babby my baltic friend

>>75741307
Brady is easily the greatest of all time nigga. Look at his 2006 season. He almost took a bunch of no name wide receivers to the Super Bowl.

>>75741307
By your logic Rice was a Montana/Young babby.

>>75740781
I'd go for Mario over Gretzky and Koufax over Ruth, but otherwise...

>>75735180

Alexandr Karelin and Jahangir Khan dominated their sports way more than he did.

>>75732721
ability to perform under pressure/clutch situations. will literally never consider anyone for GOAT if he doesnt have this.

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>>75741607

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>>75742066

I didn't know this because obviously I'd never watch someone who cheated with steroids like Peyton Manning play in the Superbowl, but good to know this info. Of course I already knew he sucks, but this will help me explain to others exactly how much.


To answer OPs question: Be the best player currently playing. People think they're old school if they say Jordon, but you can't even mention Bill Russell. Without question - WITHOUT QUESTION - the GOAT in all of team sports in the history of the world. 11 titles in 13 years - playing against the freak Wilt Chamberlin - and one of the two years he failed to win he broke his leg in the Finals and couldn't play. The best. The best. The GOAT of GOTs.

For a team sport:

40% Individual Stats and achievements
30% Team Stats and achievements
20% Talent and charisma (subjective)
10% Influence on the sport, popularity, etc.

>>75735097
He said 1 ) be the best 2) be known as the best. Not one thing without the other

>>75736363
>ignoring how Santos dominated European teams in both intercontinental cups and friendlies
>ignoring how much quality Brazilian tournaments had back then

>>75732721

(relevant titles won +meme value) + stats/2 x cultural impact