Who was better and more dominant at thier sport, /sp/? Also

Don Bradman

>>74792759
Jordan actually played defense.

>>74793281

Dam

>>74792759
Daily reminder that if you take away all of Gretzky's goals and he'd still be the all time points leader and it isn't even close.

File: pepetriots.jpg (73KB, 413x589px) Image search: [Google]

73KB, 413x589px

Tom Brady

Wayne Rooney.

Gretzky


Gretzky

>>74792759
If Wayne Gretzky had never scored a single goal he would still be the all-time points leader

File: IMG_2548.jpg (38KB, 1242x390px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 1242x390px

>>74793983

jordan was more dominant, because basketball players can do more individually

>>74794078
Would be good to mention that Gretzky stopped playing at age 38 while Jagr is still playing today at age 45 and still hasn't caught up

>>74794078
I really hope Jagr doesn't break 1963 desu

>>74793864
he also played in the babby rules era where the league average 7 goals per game

>>74792759
Players still actively wear #23.

#99 was retired league wide the day after Gretzky retired

>>74794200
Then why did no one else get close?

>>74793918

* with integrity

Nobody is allowed to even wear #99 in the NHL.

I don't think anyone dares wear that number in juniors, college or other 'professional' hockey leagues.

File: BIO_Bio-Shorts_Michael-Jordan-Mini-Biography_0_181278_SF_HD_768x432-16x9.jpg (48KB, 768x432px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 768x432px

>http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-bulls-confidential/2009/11/jordan-doesnt-want-number-retired/

>non-Americans commenting ITT

Why do we even allow them on /sp/

Why did mods just kill that Jordan poster?

>>74792759
Gretzky free.

From what I've read about this Canadian guy, he holds all the records. But Jordan was a better team player and won more titles (plus 6 straight finals MVP). So it's kind of tough.

File: Malone-Flexing-Update-597x398.jpg (62KB, 597x398px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 597x398px

>competing in a sport that nothing but unathletic white people play

Or

>competing at the highest level against people from all over the world in a sport that's populated by literal freaks of nature

Pic related is one of the physical specimen that Michael had to compete against every night.

I personally think Lemieux was better than Gretzky.

>>74797447
Thats a fair arguement. Only counter I can make is that the Oilers owner was a massive faggot and traded the guy away in his prime to a shitty team that he then carried to the cup. He probably could have won a couple more if he had stayed.

>>74797740
Malone - 6'9", 250 lbs
Lindros - 6'5", 245 lbs

4 inches with only 5 lbs t to show for it

Jordan played 40 minutes a night playing both sides of the ball.

>>74797871

That guy would be a manlet in the NBA.

>>74792759

Orr is the superior overall player IMO to both.

>>74798162
Lindros would have routinely fucked other players wives. He was good looking & he was a bastard.

>>74792759

Ranking North American GOATs

#1 Joe Lewis
#2 Orr
#3 Mays
#4 Brady
#5 Jordan
#6 Jack Nicklaus

If Brady wins #6 he moves up higher. Maybe #1. If he wins #7 he is #1 for sure.

File: image_5.jpg (76KB, 466x517px) Image search: [Google]

76KB, 466x517px

>>74797767
Well you're wrong and Finnish. Coincidence? I think not

>>74798775

>Lewis at #1

Pretty based, anon.

File: kessel_3.jpg (389KB, 733x1100px) Image search: [Google]

389KB, 733x1100px

The true GOAT NA athlete is still playing

Pic related

>>74797767

I disagree. Orr makes sense cause of his 2 way play. That is a fair argument and I think he was better. Gretzky and Lemieux played the same position and so need to be judged the same way.

Lemiex hit 199 points once (next best is 168) Gretzky broke 200 4 times.

Gretzky was better at his best and able to sustain it longer.

>>74798947

Ali is great but a bit overrated cause he was a great story ad big time talker. As a fighter Joe Lewis was superior. People who have studied boxing beyond the hype mostly agree on this.

>>74797447

To be fair, Gretz was the biggest part of the last great NHL dynasty. Its tough to compare team achievements because of the undeniable fact that stars can contribute to a greater percentage of their team's success in basketball. Even the most well conditioned NHL player can only average about 27 minutes a game (elite forwards usually play closer to 20). Jordan could play the entire game

In terms of being ahead of the next best in their sport
1. that lacrosse or yurobaseball guy I literally can't remember its name right now, judging by that one chart I saw
2. roidBonds
3. gretzky
4. kareem
5. nattyBonds
6. ray guy

>>74797740
Except every year I hear shit like Durant not being able to bench 135 or Roy Hibbert needing a physical therapist to WALK properly
But yeah, if you get your dick hard about big black bulls, sure

>>74792759
Donald Bradman

>>74798989

Who is this meth head?

>>74793281
this is the only post you need to read in this thread

>8 straight MVPs vs 5 MVPs with only 1 back to back pair

I wonder

>>74793281
Gretzky has the most short handed goals in NHL history. He would take your advantage and stuff it down your throat

>>74801381
There are videos of Durant benching 315 cuck

>>74801733
Yeah on the moon maybe

>>74801779
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TjHnQexeFkc

>>74801802
>In Case you guys didn't know this video is fake.

Gretzky was like a make-a-player in a video game you gave ridiculously high stats to and put the difficulty on rookie.

>>74801730

You forgot to mention that Jordan also won defensive player of the year and MVP at the same time.

>>74801881
If he's so good defensively then why wasn't he winning more MVPs?

>>74801909

Because he retired in the middle of his prime

>>74801923
Gretzky was winning MVPs from his rookie season, no need to wait until his prime

>>74801946

Sounds to me like he didn't have any real competition if that's the case.

Jordan had to go up against living legends and proven dynasties like The Celtics, Lakers, and Bad Boys Pistons.

>>74792759

Ape hoop fans have no understanding of hockey. Jordan being the GOAT is questionable to an extent. Gretzky is without a doubt the greatest hockey player ever.

>>74802026
>Jordan being the GOAT is questionable to an extent.
No it's not.

>>74792759
Gretzky. Look at the gap between Gretzky and #2 on the list:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/leaders/points_career.html

>>74802005
>proven dynasties

In Gretzky's second year the Oilers beat the Habs in the playoffs, a team just one year removed from winning 4 straight and 8 of the last 12. In his 4 and 5th years he faced the Islanders, a team that picked up where the Habs left off and won 4 straight and 19 consecutive playoff series (NBA/NHL/MLB record).

In terms of individual competition, Mike Bossy was the preeminent goal scorer before Gretzky. He became the first player in 35 years to score 50 goals in 50 games. The very next year Gretzky scored 50 goals in 39 games (61 in 50). Gretzky broke the goal scoring record by 16 that year (he scored 121% of the previous record holder)

When you played fantasy hockey in 80s you weren't allowed to pick Gretzky. To keep it fair you could only pick Gretzky (assists) or Gretzky (goals) since if you could pick Gretzky whoever got the first pick would be guaranteed to win the pool.

>>74797740
Did they get tested for PEDs at the time? I guess not.

>>74802046

Is being able to score goals the only thing that matters in hockey?

Because if that's the case then Wilt Chamberlain is the GOAT basketball player.

>>74802054

Peds are pretty fuckin useless in basketball. I don't think it's ever been a real issue in the nba.

>>74797740
>a sport where you get your throat slashed, your ribs broken, your head concussed and you play the next week
vs
>a pussy ass sport full of flopping divas where you get leg cramps and have to be carried off the court

>>74802062
Gretzky would literally lead the all time scoring even if he scored zero goals during his career.

>>74802026
Being the greatest hockey player ever makes you one thing: The greatest hockey player ever.

Hockey is too irrelevant to produce a legit GOAT. Who the hell cares if Thor played cricket and smashed every record there ever was?

Jordan is the GOAT. You can argue for Schumacher, Messi, Ronaldo etc. But you cannot argue about fucking hockey lol.

>>74802086
Obviously it's all the non whites always talking shit about hockey.

>>74802074
Malone sure thought otherwise, look at his lean mass.

A person with Malone's height cannot preserve his lean mass especially with his level of cardio without PEDs. That's why I asked.

>>74802086

This is true.

Hockey has a tiny player base compared to soccer, baseball, and basketball.

It's pretty much a sport for rich white kids who can't hack it at the other sports.

unpopular opinion:
prime selänne was better than prime gretzky
only the hardcore fans realize this

>>74802107
>finn obinions

File: karl_malone01.jpg (27KB, 415x391px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 415x391px

>>74802100

Malone was a fitness and health freak. Dude was an iron man, he rarely ever missed any games because he kept himself in shape and ate right, unlike Shaq he didn't take care of himself and would get fat as fuck every off season same with barkley.

>>74802103
>forgetting all those Scandinavians and Slavs

>>74802103
Spotted the angry poor cuckold.

>>74802103
Hockey: Canada, US, Finland, Sweden, Russia, Czech republic, Slovakia, Switzerland

Baseball: US, Japan, and a bunch of tiny 3rd world negroid murderzones in the Caribbean

>>74802120
Malone was everything you said he was but he still could not have that body without PEDs. Too tall people just cannot.

Look the guy on the photo is the most advanced 1on1 fighter on the planet. He needs the lean mass even more than Malone, for avoiding getting beaten to a pulp by other monsters. He is even shorter than Malone (1.93m). But he gets tested for PEDs properly. This is him at his natural limit.

File: stipe-miocic-6.jpg (101KB, 300x441px) Image search: [Google]

101KB, 300x441px

>>74802163
teh fucking photo

>>74802167
This guy is the only MMA player I like because he's not a WWE tier cringy forced meme like Rousey and Conor.

>>74802163

Fighters have to make and cut weight though, and too much muscle will fatigue them quicker.

Malone can be at any weight he wants to be.

>>74802153

I think Japan alone has a bigger population than Canada and all those scandanavian countries put together.

Also they only play hockey in certain states in the US. Basketball on the other hand is played all over us.

>>74802185
Miocic is a HW, they don't need to cut weight. The reason I picked him as an example.

Too much muscle will fatigue him quicker, yes. Too much muscle would fatigue Malone quicker too, without the PEDs that is.

>>74802196
Japan still has a smaller population than Russia.

>>74802103
>baseball

baseball literally has to take americans and force them to play for israel, italy and other countries in order to have a tournament

File: David-Haye152.jpg (52KB, 346x461px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 346x461px

>>74802201

I don't know about MMA but usually in heavyweight boxing they'll have an agreed upon weight where they have to come in at a certain weight range.

Some people just got good genes.

>>74802053

>In Gretzky's second year the Oilers beat the Habs

stopped reading, go to bed Claude

>>74802209

Russians are poor as fuck though and I think a lot of them are playing basketball now. There's a TON of Eastern European players in the NBA now.

>>74802243
Hockey is far, far bigger in Russia than basketball.

>Russians are poor
And how is this relevant to the argument?

>>74802243
Most of the Eastern Europeans in the NBA are Serbs, Croats and Lithuanians, not Russians. I can't even name a single Russian ever since Kirilenko left.

>>74802107
i mean, he did score a fucktarded amount his rookie year for a standing record.

>>74802293

Mozgov?

>>74802183
based.

pls save /heem/

>>74802243
you do realize hockey is the blue collar sport outside of the US right? Money doesn't matter

File: ABC_donald_trump_this_week_jt_130811_33x16_1600.jpg (70KB, 1600x786px) Image search: [Google]

70KB, 1600x786px

>>74802355

>implying anything outside the US matters

>>74802372
89pbp

>>74802201
UFC heavyweights have to be no more than 265lbs. So yes, they do cut weight.

>>74792759

It's Gretzky and it's not even close.

There are probably 3 or 4 guys you could make a good argument for being the NBA GOAT over Jordan. (Russel, Chamberlain, Kareem, Oscar Robertson maybe LeBron in a few years) There exists no such competition in hockey. Gretzky is so far above everyone else who ever played the sport he is the unquestioned greatest.

It is much harder to skate with a puck than to dribble a ball.

>>74805343

No it isn't lol

>>74794273
>>74795914

Really makes your cranium heat up with thoughts.

>>74803996
>who is Orr?

>>74805361
>walking and running on wood is harder and less natural than gliding on thin pieces of metal on ice

lmao

>>74805473
A response looking to be an irl shitposter basically

>>74793864
I hope Jagr kills this fucking stat before he retires

>>74802107
And Kharlamov was better than any hockey player that ever lived.

>>74802079
How many of those points are secondaries?

DECIDING FACTOR

Better coached/ran team:
Gretzky's Coyotes
Jordan's Bobcats

I legitimately don't know. I know they both sucked but who REALLY sucked

>>74799241
hey you're that retired punter from the vikes, aren't you?

>>74803996
Lemieux's peak was higher than Gretzky's, but obviously injuries and cancer quickly ended what could have been.

>>74801909
Because basketball is horrible with MVPs. Everyone knows Jordan deserved it every year.

>>74805638
in what ways did jordan suck at coaching?

i heard for gretzky it was largely due to him drawing up all these convoluted, super complex plays that none of his players could understand let alone anticipate in a game and execute. i get the feeling he never had to think it out too much as a player since it all came naturally.

>>74809125
no it bloody wasn't, lemieux never decisively crushed the competition like gretzky did. he's actually lucky injuries cut him down since he got all these meme what-if and on-pace-for arguments

>>74805638
Still cant believe they payed Gretzky 8 Million per year to be a complete shit coach

>>74812772
Yes he (Lemieux) decisively did. If you're not old enough see them at their peaks, then watch the tape. Lemieux had just as much creativity as Gretzky but could do more things with his size (before he didn't have to have teammates lace up his skates before games, of course). Gretzky played with Hall of Fame wingers when he scored 215 points. Lemieux played with Rob Brown and Bob Errey when he scored 199, and you can be damn sure the league would have found one more point to award Wayne if he was one shy of 200. I'll always take Gretzky's points totals with a grain of salt, as he was the king of getting phantom secondary assists awarded to him minutes after goals, sometimes when he wasn't even on the ice. That's not to downplay his greatness and longevity. Both combined make him the greatest player ever, but his peak wasn't as high as Mario's. Oh, and Wayne failed as an owner.

>gretzky
>looks like a female, bout 0 ng/l of testosterone
>used by the nhl to promote the nu-male and transhumanism (masonic organization look it up)
>game was 100% rigged to let her get goat stats
>doesnt approach Lemieux, Forsberg etc in skills we actually saw on the ice

>mj
>legit champion, did it in a racist establishment so he couldnt have been faked

>>74797871
Malone wasn't a fucking pussy though

Patrick Kane does Wayne Gritsky better than Wayne Grizky he just doesn't play in a retard goalie era

>>74801923
If he wouldn't have retired jordan would have 8 or 9 rings. He was just that good.

>>74797871

How fuckin retarded are you, Lindros always had a much higher bodyfat% than Malone. The latter is way more athletic.

>>74802074
They aren't useless but the nba drug testing is a fucking joke anyway. They only test the players four times a year max. I highly doubt any stars have to test.

>>74797740

>B-b-b-but its aboot the coordination

>>74802120
There is a reason we used to call him Snaq.

>>74792785
>>74801388
This tbqhwy

>>74814421

Kek

>>74802100
Malone would spend his free time doing athletic competitions and hunting and camping while every other athlete would eat mcdonalds and drink for 7 months a year.

>>74798714
he and tony parker would have made good teammates then

>>74802163
>>74802167

If MMA paid as much as other sports you'd see athletes instead of Stipe Miocic.

File: otl_malone02_275.jpg (15KB, 275x200px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 275x200px

>>74814696

This is true.

Gretzky and it isn't even close.

>At the time of his retirement in 1999, he held 61 NHL records: 40 regular-season records, 15 playoff records, and six All-Star records.
>As of 2014, he still holds 60 NHL records.

>>74802074
>PEDs are pretty useless in basketball

M8, PEDs enhance every form of physical capability a human has (for a temporary stay with side effects)

Run faster for longer, jump higher, increase hand eye coordination (big reason why so many baseball players do em, elite hand eye is critical in that sport), bigger and tougher body that not only allows you to body the opponent defensively but also offensively

I could go on

Point is, steroids and any kind of PED are banned for a reason, and it's because they all indisputably give you a heightened edge.

The reason the NBA has so few that get popped is because the NBA doesn't actually ever test for them properly. I read an NYT article that basically highlighted some stuff (obviously from "anonymous sources in the league") that virtually everyone does them in the NBA but the attention just isn't brought to it because that league is so star driven that having a Lebrun type player get popped could be devastating for ratings for a number of reasons, namely casuals will be turned off based off some undeserved moral high ground notion and when a star player goes down the team will start losing big.

I think the study of steroids in Sports is a VASTLY underrated topic. Surprised more journalists don't pursue it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGBoSKPVm5g

>50 goals in 39 games
>92 goals in a season
>215 points in a season

these are records that haven't even come close to being broken, and probably won't be for at least another 30 years

MJ's career average was 30.1 PPG, which is insane and an NBA record, but the hockey equivalent to that record is probably something like 50-60 PPG

Gretzky is on a-whole-nother level

>>74802291
Because Hockey is only played by rich people, oh wait, I'm retarded and my points are meaningless.

File: jimthorpe1912.jpg (770KB, 1581x1164px) Image search: [Google]

770KB, 1581x1164px

>ctrl+f thorpe
>0 results

Dude played pro Baseball, Basketball, and Football AND got Gold in the Decathlon and Pentathlon, which are events made up of a bunch of other events combined.

Literally the greatest sportsman of all time

File: kristaps_4.jpg (116KB, 789x1080px) Image search: [Google]

116KB, 789x1080px

>>74814793

Ya..Pic related is def on the juice.

>>74814821
Meh. League was still extremely offensive friendly then. I'm more impressed with Lemieux scoring 50 points in his first 17 games back following his cancer diagnosis (which also happens to be the reigning consecutive game win streak).

>>74792759
every generation of players has challenger to Jordan for #1 GOAT (currently Lebron), but there's only 1 legitimate contender for that in hockey, and that's Gretzky. Lemieuxfags will bitch all they want, but nobody will ever break most of the records Wayne set, let alone have the talent and skill he had.

tl;dr
Gretzky > MJ

>>74814884
>I'm more impressed with Lemieux scoring 50 points in his first 17 games back following his cancer diagnosis
wtf are you talking about? the closest Lemieux got to scoring was 50 points in 46 games you retard

>>74793918
needs the updated version with the fifth ring

>>74801733
he couldn't bench 185 during the combine

>>74794200
>babby rules era where the league average 7 goals per game
you know we can just google that and -- voila! you're full of shit!

>>74814900
A guy like Jagr started playing in the NHL when I was a four year old kid, I'm now older than 30 and he's STILL playing in the league at a pretty decent level, and what's crazy is that even though he's been skullfucking the NHL for all these years he's still nowhere close to Gretzky's scoring totals.

>>74797740
Players have almost died on the ice because of injuries. You won't see anything close to that in niggerball.

>>74797767
You're gay

>>74797767
>guaranteed replies

>>74814793
>multimillion dollar league engaged in numerous TV/ad/sponsorship deals will lose ratings, lifelong fans and credibility forever
>Suprised more journalists dont pursue i

you just answered your own question and dont even know it.

>>74814901
weak bait

>>74797767
Good post.

>>74793281
>>74801700

kids don't know about Gretzky at all lol

Gretzky s the No.1 GOAT for sure, Jordan is maybe Top 5.

Also: Gretzky was the GOAT when he was 7 years old, and 8 and 9 and so on. Jordan was a very late bloomer.

Another thing is that Jordan is just a horrible horrible person; literally no one who knows him likes him.

File: a7a2a788b65021c83c15ad122a5cf0f8.jpg (101KB, 525x730px) Image search: [Google]

101KB, 525x730px

>>74814920

That's because they are a bunch of unathletic pale white guys.

They're not real athletes. Nope, nope, not at all.

File: Bo-Jackson-Film-Becomes-ESPNs-Highest-Rated-Documentary.jpg (76KB, 665x385px) Image search: [Google]

76KB, 665x385px

>>74814874

>some dude from the 50's im supposed to know about with outdated rulesets and antiquated league play

looks like you dont know Bo.

File: mfwheh.png (6KB, 52x70px) Image search: [Google]

6KB, 52x70px

>>74802163
>the most advanced 1on1 fighter on the planet.
>Stipe
lol
choose one only

>>74814958
This faggot was just a shitty basketball player and about the worst example you could post, just relied on freak athleticism and couldn't develop anything resembling a post game, plus he shoots FTs at a lower percentage than I do.

>>74814952

>Another thing is that Jordan is just a horrible horrible person; literally no one who knows him likes him.

According to Phil Jackson in his book 11 rings, Jordan was very gregarious and everybody got along with him. Kobe on the other hand was very antisocial and basically had literally no friends in the league, not even his own teammate's.

>>74814958
>durr only blacks r athuhleets
I hope you get Malarchuk'd

>>74814963
Bo Jackson peaked in college. He didn't last long enough in either football or baseball to become the god he was as an amateur.

>>74814963
Not the guy you're replying to, but Bo is the biggest fucking meme in the history of sports overrated to absurdity just because of his speed and because he played two sports. He played like 3 or 4 incomplete seasons in the NFL before retiring due to injury, and was just an above average guy in the MLB. Jack of all trades master of none kind of guy.

Who was more clutch: jordan or gretzky?

File: final-skates80.jpg (182KB, 600x675px) Image search: [Google]

182KB, 600x675px

>muh little ice skates


lel i'll give anyone the GOAT if they can parade around for 40 minutes in these things like little girls much less do it professionally and with pride lmao


i guess that's why they gotta fight to keep it entertaining

Gretzky is a secondary babby.

>>74814970
>>74814967

All the top athletic white people are playing football and baseball.

File: 0447060001448903667_filepicker.jpg (67KB, 620x444px) Image search: [Google]

67KB, 620x444px

>>74814984

LMAO!!

>>74815007
>baseball
>athletic
>bartolo_colon.jpg
Shit bait

>>74814940
my bad, i read goals, not points
50 points in 17 games is impressive enough, considering he just came back from radiation treatments

File: Wayne-Gretzky.jpg (506KB, 747x1024px) Image search: [Google]

506KB, 747x1024px

>>74814979
both great, but at least Gretzky didn't literally beat on his own teammates in the locker room.

>>74814978
sorta agree

he's the ultimate "what if?"

what if he only focused all of his time and energy into either baseball/football? he'd go down as GOAT in either sport
what if he was never injured and was a multi-sport star for 10+ years? he'd go down as a GOAT for being able to play both sports at the highest level for so long.

>>74815029
It's cool bro, glad you acknowledged

File: mark-mcgwire2jpg-126a717913d0bbdb_medium.jpg (25KB, 240x356px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 240x356px

>>74815022
>>74815022

Baseball players are huge, man.

File: Ty-Ash.jpg (78KB, 618x412px) Image search: [Google]

78KB, 618x412px

>>74815081
For real.

>>74802107
Prime Bure > prime Selanne
>le decline after rookie season man

Also the only reason Gretzky is rated higher than Lemieux is cancer + injuries

Reminder that the oilers won a cup 2 years after trading Gretzky away

Reminder that Lemieux was on pace for 224 points in 92-93, 9 higher than Gretzkys record, but was sidelined for 2 months in the middle of the season due to cancer

>>74815096
reminder that boo hoo, shit happens

>>74815096
Should've been
>le steady decline after rookie season man

>>74815096
The ability to stay healthy / durability is a skill, though. Even cancer aside, Lememe was just made of glass.