If Maradona was so great, why didn't Napoli do better in

>If Maradona was so great, why didn't Napoli do better in Champions League? I get it that he had only one or 2 chanches but a GOAT as he claiming to be, and Seria A being the best league back then according to /sp/ posters, he should have do better against Spartak Moscow.

Like you said, he only had 2 chances. Anything can happen in knockout games. Players who have won it 2 or 3 times have had about 15 attempts at it in their careers (like Cristiano for example)

>Napoli won the "UEFA Cup" 89' but out of 18 goals scored by Napoli that year, Maradona scored only 3, and all of them were penalties and they played against teams like Lokomotiv Leipzig.

He was the playmaker, he wasn't a striker.

>>74512922
He was probably the only elite player on an otherwise average team, right?

IIRC, most Napoli players weren't on the same level as the average Milan and Juve player.

>>74512941
Any reasons why to rate Maradona above Messi then? (I'm not saying you said this)

Messi had only 3 chances with Argentina in the WC's, one being 18 years old, and he reached the final once... One could say on his own... And he's isn't a striker either and he's second on the all time CL scorer list with real chances to being 1st.

>>74512922
it was different competition then, you had to win the league the previous season to compete. and then only knock outs, which increases the chaos (group stage eliminated the weaker teams that can always cause havoc in a knock out)
he led them to 2 league titles (and the UEFA cup, closer in organization to today's CL, in the sense each country put 3 teams there). They had never won before. Nor since.

>>74512996
Maradona won the WC. he was the real deal. Meshit cant wimshit without Iniesta and Xavi

>>74513071
But Messi is a better player than either

>>74512996

Ignoring ability, Maradona's legend is built on a 6 year period from 1985 - 1991, winning the WC with an average Argentina side (it is the only WC in history to feature just 1 player from the winning team in the all-star XI) and winning Napoli their only league and european trophies in their history, while up against the GOAT Milan side and very good Juve, Inter and Sampdorias sides, in the most defensive and physical era of football.

Messi of course wins if you just look at stats and trophies, but the argument against him has always been that he's played in a stacked team from the very beginning of his career, in an era with an ever increasing lack of parity.

>>74512996
>One could say on his own
Messi got carried by Mascheguarro and Di Maria.He did jack shit outside of qualification matches

>>74513337
So having the most take ons and chances created in the whole tournament by at least 30% means nothing?

>>74512996
Considering how different Maradona's NT is compared to Messi's NT, it's absurd how Leo never won any WC, Maradona pretty much won carrying the whole team. Also, Napoli wasn't as good as Milan, Juve, Inter and even Sampdoria (that was an amazing team at the time), but he still managed to win 2 league title and even a uefa cup (back when Uefa cup was actually important)

>>74513442
But now the team's are even better than they were before. Things like CL are much more difficult because teams like Bayern literally buy any player they feel threatened by

>>74513466

Which makes winning the CL easier for the elite teams than ever before. Realistically only Bayern, Real and Barca (ok maybe not this season barring a miracle) have a chance at winning it now because they have a monopoly on all the worlds best players.

>>74513276
Hand of god.

>>74513485
It's easier for those teams to get in, but more difficult to win, because a team like Barcelona still has to get past teams like
-Bayern
-Real Madrid
-Atletico Madrid
-PSG
-Dortmund
-Juventus
-Chelsea/Aesenal/City/United

>>74513466
But if you think about it, is easier only for elite team.
When at that time even HELLAS VERONA (I'm not joking) won a Scudetto, against Platini's Juventus!
So there were more balanced competitions compared to the actual situation.

>>74513534
The mighty Juventus have won 2 Copa Italiana in the last 22 years

>>74513337
ADM was absolute shitshow. Wtf are you on about?

>>74513565
He thinks that because he scored a goal (which Messi assited) he was more important

>>74512922
Messi can dribble and do his tricks to other players and as soon as someone touches him they get a yellow card, Maradona couldn't just dribble he had to leap through players fast enough to not get wrecked.

>>74513276
Reminder that many other players played in stacked teams, for example Bojan Krkic, and where is he now? He and many other players had the chance to play in La Masia and Barcelona A team but only one made it as a club top scorer, assist, most succesfull player in club history etc. Barcelona is what it is because Messi. One should ask himself how did Messi end up in Barcelona in the first place. Coincidance? I don't think so.

>>74512996
Please, Messi was only decent in the quarterfinal and then he MISSED the penalty in the 3rd place game.

>>74513607
that's the thing. I saw a video on youtube with Maradona's rarest skills and every defender tried to kill him in every match. Massi would be on a wheelchair, and there would be outrage but back then it was normal to murderball Maradona, if you want to have a laugh go see Argentina Cameroon in 90WC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBGWApx0k6g

in this video you can actually see the violence he had to escape on the field. no player from today's era ever experienced anything like this

Messi is a system babby playing for the best team in an era of almost no parity

ladies and gentleman, I'm giving you Mario Gotze

>5 times bundes champion
>winning 2 against one of the most stacked teams of all time
>world champion
>scoring in the final
>his most memorable moment is not blatant cheating only agrentinegros would defend
>by the age of 22
>in a much more competitive era
>playing while having health problems probably not related to cocaine

Diego who?

>>74513771
Big fat is not a health problem

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>>74513786
priapism is a serious medical condition

>Maradona won the World Cup with an average team
Fucking underage. Like 8 starters on that Argentina team came from teams that won Copa Libertadores in 84, 85 and 86.

And that was when Libertadores had arguably better teams than the European Cup

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>Maradona only had two chances at CL

Nice way of saying he failed to qualify most of the time. :^)

That team was expensive and built to win titles, Maradona on paper wasn't even the best on that squad
I used to deny it too but Maradona was dethroned as the GOAT by Messi, accept it and go back to playing fifa 17

>>74513675
Only thing that video did was confirm Messi is superior in every possible way, you contrarians

>comparing shit between completely different eras
Please stop memeing. It's very fruitless to compare Maradona and Messi from the very beginning because the whole sport is so vastly different. Maradona played in an age where the average top tier players earned no more than your national average joe the construction worker, and who smoked and drank prior to games. There wasn't nearly as much money in the business so it was, from today's point of view, very amateurish on all levels.

Today it's a multibillion business and teams are very business oriented and ran like companies. There's all sort of science involved from scouting to physiology and even psychology. Teams with the biggest name and most money will attract the richest sponsors and are able to attract big names who bring value in both marketing and playing level.

How would Messi fare in the 80's? Well he probably wouldn't due to his team not caring or knowing how to help with his growth, so he'd stay a small midget too frail to play in the physical game of that era. How would Van Basten fare today? Maybe he'd be along the tops, or maybe he'd be something like Robben - very skilled but definitely not defined a legend.

>>74512996
because winning trophies depends also on the rest of the team, rating an individual player dpends on how much they improve a particular team.

>>74513524
teams like barcelona real madrid and bayern, and maybe chelsea and juventus and this year psg too, are the only ones who can win the chapmions league, teams with players among the top 5 in every position.

back the number of teams who could win it was higher, there was more competition so winning it was more difficult.
Back then there were no teams that were as superior to the rest sas RM barca and BM have been in the last decade, not even the great milan

>>74512996
how bout you think for yourself instead of listening to hysterical retards on chinese cartoon websites

>>74513943
>Maradona played in an age where the average top tier players earned no more than your national average joe the construction worker, and who smoked and drank prior to games. There wasn't nearly as much money in the business so it was, from today's point of view, very amateurish on all levels.
Maradona didn't play in the 1950s

>>74513943
>Please stop memeing. It's very fruitless to compare Maradona and Messi from the very beginning because the whole sport is so vastly different. Maradona played in an age where the average top tier players earned no more than your national average joe the construction worker, and who smoked and drank prior to games. There wasn't nearly as much money in the business so it was, from today's point of view, very amateurish on all levels.

We're not talking about Pele here. Maradona only retired in 1997. Guys like Maldini, Nesta, Ronaldo, Zidane and even Buffon were all playing when he was still around.

Because who cares about some Mickey mouse cup when you can win the glorious serie a

>>74513337
only messi and mascherano were actually good in that tournament

di maria was atrociously poor

>>74513442
well he had 3 chances like OP said, on the first he was too young

the second time, ironically maradona was the reason they didn't win shit

didn't call up zanneti and cambiasso who'd just won a fucking treble and didn't play milito who has the hottest striker on the planet at the time but instead forced higuain who has crap

and in 2014 they reached the finals which they almost won..

maradona also lost a WC final

>>74513607
defending these days is a lot more sophisticated and strategic
back then you had butchers kick the shit out of you whenever they wanted to and not get appropriately punished

>>74513713
so why aren't they winning everything, all the time

>>74513806
And when they came to Europe, they were average at best. Valdano was an okay player in Real Madrid, where he was carried by Butragueño, Juanito and the rest. Only Passarella was truly elite, and he didn't even play in the 86 World Cup.

Maradona carried a mediocre team to a WC win. This is a fact.

>>74514734
>forced higuain

Messi forced Higuain and his buddies on that team, with sexy results. Just like in 2014.

>>74513876
>stats

>>74514212
Yes when Maradona was well in his 30s. Get real mate.

>>74513876
Yeah no shit Edin, you needed to win the league to qualify

>>74513670
MESSHIT

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If Ronaldo is so great why did it take him 5 years to win a Champions League with real madrid? Keep in mind he didn't even score in the final, a defender scored before hiim, and he wasn't even man of the match. What gives? I thought he was a goat.

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>DUDE HE CARRIED A TEAM OF NOBODIES LMAO

>>74518181
Didn't win until Bale arrived

>>74514212
so Pele is the GOAT then?

>>74513071
Xavi is already "retired" and Iniesta only has 1 good game out of 10.

>>74518806
obviously Pele is the GOAT

>>74523435
Therefore, Meshit won't win any more shit

>>74512922
>this fucking thread again, arguments only about numbers and statictics
just stop

>>74513276
maradona was a idol in argentina when he was 16 years old, like literally goat.
napoli was just the ending
in argentinos and boca he was by far the goat in arg in that time and ever

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>>74513943
>Maradona played in an age where the average top tier players earned no more than your national average joe the construction worker

>>74523815
rare flag

>>74523843
new fag more like

>>74513545
>Copa Italiana
Nobody gives a shit about coppa

>>74513675
>having part time plumbers lunge in to you 9/10

vs

>having professionals coached by coaches with the most access to technology and information in hostory set up their entire defence to screen you off and limit your influence


Hmmmm

>>74512922
Le 3 match man

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>>74512986
>Giordano and Careca
>average

Holy shit, neck yourself Ramirez.

>>74524310
>mid-80 - early 90s footballers
>semi-professional

lol messhit fanboys are ridiculous

>>74527591
Yes. Not in the meaning of having another job than playing football but in terms of training and preparation.

Wenger was considered a lunatic by Arsenal players when he came in and told them to eat healthy and maintain a fitness regime. And that was late 90s

>>74527652

It's more strict now but i doubt every player smoked and drank back then. Even now the likes of Rooney and Wilshere have been caught smoking so it's not like every player treats their body like C.Ronaldo does.

Also people acting like there was no tactics back then wtf? This was at the height of Catenaccio. This period of football was the most defensive in history, they even had to change several rules to make the game more attacking and entertaining in the early 90s.

>>74513943
>>74514212
Dude, Pelé's Santos was probably one of the first teams in the world that explored customers around the globe. If only, it was harder for the players to travel and play each 3 days against some of the best teams in the countries.

Even yellow and red cards were yet to be invented, as substitutions.

>>74527753
>they even had to change several rules to make the game more attacking and entertaining in the early 90s.
really? Like what?

>>74512922
Because football was actually competitive back then

Russian players were juiced out of their minds

>>74529731
The offside rule

>>74529731

Introduced the pass back rule

Changed the offside rule to favour the attacker rather than the defender

>>74529731
Back then it was offside if ANY player was behind the defense line when any pass was made, they changed it so only the players who participate in the play can cause it

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>falling for argentinian memes

shiggy

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>>74523799
>fat idiot junkie
>idol

>>74523782
>muh numbers and statistics don't matter when they go against muh narrative

>>74529549
Peñarol beat the shit out of Pele and Santos like 3 times in crucial matches, get the fuck out of here Pele was only good against shit Brazil teams.

>>74530369
thats not true. it was changed that you could be level with the second to last guy and still be on-side

>>74531140
>peñarol beat the shit out
>4 defeats
>3 wins
In the 1965 Libertadores Peñarol won the home match by 3-2. It was 5-4 for Santos in the first leg with a Pelé goal. Then, happened a playoff in Buenos Aires, which Peñarol won in the extra time by 2-1. Pelé scored once and was the top scorer of that Libertadores with 8 goals. Peñarol classified to the final, which they lose.

The other Santos' defeat was by 2-1 in an away match. Pelé scored the single goal there and scored once again in the 2-0 win at home.

And I don't even needed to talk about how brazilian teams didn't gave a fuck about Libertadores before the 80s.

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>>74532928
>And I don't even needed to talk about how brazilian teams didn't gave a fuck about Libertadores before the 80s.
Please do

I don't know much about that era of divegrass, so to me, it sounds like you're just posting a meme

>>74532958
Brazilian teams cared more about the State's Championships than about Libertadores in that era. Beating the local rivals was more important, and lucrative, than travelling around south america. Pelé's Santos, staying in the subject, preferred to travel around the world, specially in Europe, because it was so much more lucrative, they were literally paid to be faced.

I'd say that São Paulo's titles in the 90s were the crucial point to brazilian teams have the eager to win a Libertadores.

You can talk about how Conmebol always favored any spanish speaking team but brazilians ones aswell.

There's loads of texts in portuguese saying it better than I can. I'd suggest you to read some of them searching by "times brasileiros libertadores importância/obsessão/interesse".

>>74513071
2015 CL? Xavi was already gone

>>74527591
Christ Smalling makes more money in one month than Maradona in his whole career

>>74533359
No he wasn't

>>74533379
Floyd Mayweather earned more again Pacquiao than Mohammed Ali made in his career. I guess boxing was amateur then too.

Zero for two, nigger lips.

People that was probably born after 95, at best 92 discuss player that had his greatest successes from 82 to 91
Love it

>>74533453
Didn't say Maradona played in amateur era but that football is way more professional now

Players in the 80s used to party the night before matches, they didn't give a fuck and could still be elite. Now that's pretty much impossible

>>74512922
Maradona would only be a decent player by today's standards.

Payet-tier.

>>74533514
Who is Ronaldinho in Barcelona... had his prime moved by alcohol

>>74533548
That pretty much explains why he played half of his career in shitty leagues like the Mexican or the Brazilian one

>>74533582
He played more time in Europe, counting PSG days. And again, he had his prime blowing the fuck out of everyone at Barcelona throwing 24/7 parties in Castelldefels.

>>74533548
exactly, Ronaldinho partied too much and his career at the top level essentially ended when he was 26 and is remembered as one of the great wasted talents despite all his achievements.

That's not a normal career.

>>74513675
Truly the GOAT, everyone tried to fuck him.

Meshit and Tsunalldo fans are cancer, the sport has been shit since the late 2000's when the last great generation of players started to fade.

Now its more about who scores more than a balanced offense-defense.

Liberos/Sweeper faded away (it was a position that needed real reading of the game) enganches/playmakers died.

Rules became emem goal friendly, marketing/money make the players nu-males retards.

No more Magico Gonzalez, Maradona, Zola, Cantona, Litmanen, Baresi, etc.

Football is death

>>74524310
>Thinking having fumbling retards trying to break your legs wouldn't effect your game

Messi has the freedom to try to dribble around people precisely because he knows the tackles will be professional. If they were legitimately trying to cripple him, there is genuine fear entering the equation. Top level footballers haven't experienced that for over 20 years.

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>>74533536
>32 years and still being this mad

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>>74534739
stop making shit up, faggot

>>74534585
I don't have a pic that's fedora enough to respond to this

>>74534816
Tip my Fedora you frickin Lewandowski cocksucker, respect the Dudeks & Bonieks.

>>74512922
eternal goat

>>74529549
Just a reminder Pele's Santos is still the ONLY South American team to win a continental treble.

>>74534739
cocaine might help with that fear thing

good thing nowadays players don't trample on the head of opposition or deliberately elbow them as a retaliation

>>74513607
>Maradona couldn't just dribble he had to leap through players fast enough to not get wrecked.
This. Football was very different back then.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfuD282WiWM