Is there an evolutionary advantage towards homophobia? Side

Roastie detected.

>>9143605
Any sort of phobia can be traced to the simple instinct of fearing what you cannot understand.

The only advantage in homopobia is the fact that the community can have something to blame their frustrations into and maintain stability in a very conservative society.

Accepting homosexuality far outweights it though as homosexuals contribute to society without increasing the population. And if history of the soldiers is to be believed, homosexual warriors have more morale than heterosexual ones

>Like take for instance the competitive smash scene
wew
>using the competitive smash scene as any kind of representative of a successful society

>>9143618
Well they are no doubt determined people. One could say that had their behavior not been acceptable. Those men would be forced to do more productive tasks, to gain money to impress women, instead of their own club. Thus advancing their society.

>>9143605
>Is there an evolutionary advantage towards homophobia?
I don't think so. But there is certanly an evolutuonary advantage of not trusting anything that is foregin the given group (eg invaders of your territory, cinsuming unkown plants). On the other hand sometimes it can be usefull to be open to new things (eg fire and other inventions/discoveries). This is a plausable explanation as to why the opposing sides are still alive)

>>9143611
>Any sort of phobia can be traced to the simple instinct of fearing what you cannot understand.
Citation needed

>>9143664
It's the very definition of phobia and why it is considered a mental illness. As such, they are cured by the same methods such as flooding therapy and anti-anxiety drugs

Being scared is normal and good.
Fearing things that does not pose a thread for no logical reason is a mental illness

>>9143672
>Fearing things that does not pose a thread for no logical reason is a mental illness
The indians weren't afraid of the europians, and had no reason to fear them (in the north at least). Three generations later a very large percentage of them were dead, not from fighting, but from all sorts of foreign diseases. They had no logical reason to fear them, yet they probably would've had a much better future, if they treated europians with extreme predjudice.
Usually you don't know every piece of information and don't see the whole picture. These times it can be usefull to rely on your instincts, afterall they caried your ancestors through literally billions of years.

>>9143692
You are comparing people's ignorance over microbes and fear of homosexuals?
Seriously?

Really doubt it. The more older brothers you have, the more likely you are to be gay. Which is a good reproductive strategy btw seeing as siblings are more similar to each other than their parents, which means having your little brother become a caregiver to your child is an advantage both to you and him from the point of view of the genes.

>>9143698
I'm saying they both have the same background, low opennes.

>>9143720
Those are 2 completely different things.
No one had any intention to spread disease

Homosexuals are just another person with a different taste for sex and hating them for no reason is called being an asshole

If half the penguins turned gay with each generation I doubt there'd be any penguins left after awhile.

>>9143720
Well it's not really fearing what you don't understand, if homosexuality is understood and accepted in a society from the beginning. Many young boys and girls experiment with opposite gender roles all the time, hinting that it's not as 'foreign' as you imply.

The question is why is it taboo in general?

A comment postulated on /gif/ yesterday was why there is so much gay/trap porn all the time, and whether homosexuality is actually very common, just socially suppressed.

Suppose homosexuality is as common as 5-25% of the population, a 'foreign' practice. Why is it such a hated practice across many cultures?

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>>9143753
Isn't it simply because of religion?

No. I don't mean in a fedora way.
Many religion forbid homosexuality because anal sex and poor hygiene causes massive increase in deadly diseases. They did the same about shellfish and pigs that are highly susceptible to accumulating toxins. It is easier to tell people not to do it because God said it than saying that it could risk everyone.

Advancement in science now renders that fear defunct but cultural and religious signifance still remains.

Many, if not all, religions outside of the Abrahamic religions are completely chill with it. In fact, the Romans, Greek, and Japanese, thinks that it is normal to have sex with another man to boost masculinity.

>>9143605
Absolutely. Anal sex is one of the most surefire vectors of bloodborn disease, think HIV. Latent fear of something is simply an unconscious mechanism of irrational avoidance which is somehow linked to your population's survival

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>>9143605
Not sure if this would be considered evolutionarily based or not, but societies are more productive if the citizens of that society are producing many more productive members for it. As well its been shown throughout history that societies with strong masculine identities tend to conquer more feminized and hedonistic societies where the lines are more blurred and people are more accepting of homosexuality.

tldr; Maybe homophobia is an instinct evolved to combat societal decadency, as well as to produce as much of your tribe as possible.

>>9143605
It's actually good.
Smash players are some of the biggest degenerates on the planet. If they were procreating it would magnify their blight on society.

>>9143780
Dumbass
The Sacred Band of Thebes are Greek's elite warrior consisting of nothing but 150 pairs of homosexual men

And they beat Sparta down

>>9143753
>why there is so much gay/trap porn all the time, and whether homosexuality is actually very common, just socially suppressed.
You have to not forget that, this site atracts mostly social recluses, who are already on the fringe of soceity. The userbase is really not a valid sample of soceity

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>>9143692
I see! Shockley had no logical reason to fear semiconductor physics, as a result he invented the transistor, and now we have to read your retarded shitposts.

>>9143797
They all still had wives and children though, so they weren't harming their society by doing it. Ancient Greek homosexuality was entirely different from our modern conceptions of it, but they were eventually conquered by Alexander the Great anyway so your point is kind of mute.

>>9143753
It is taboo for the exact example you mentioned.
>Suppose homosexuality is as common as 5-25%
Homosexuality will heavily cripple our evolution. Natural selection is already evolving us towards a form that has no fat or deposits fat in the desirable places, superior height, superior intellect, superior muscles, superior resistance to diseases.
Some of these are phenotypically not noticeable in the last 100-500 years, but the more you travel back the more you notice it. If we allow homosexuality to reach the percentages you stated or even higher, what may take us 10 000 years to achieve could potentially take up to. 20 000

>Imblying humans will survive even 100 years XDDD
Fuck off with that shit.

>>9143822
No they don't. Sacred Band of Thebes consists of 150 pairs of homosexuals - all lovers. All handpicked by Gorgidas regardless of social statues

And all completely btfod Sparta - the force that Athenains wrote as invincible soldiers

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>>9143780
World Power through the ages
Egypt: lots of gay gods and goddess. Priests tombs found to be enclosed with another man in a tight embrace

Greece: Literally invented the word "Pederasty" about men who have sex with boys that they look after

Sparta: Rapes men of conquered cities instead of women in order to subdue them. When a spartan gets married, the woman is required to get bald in order to make her more manly and desirable to his man

Rome: pic related

Homosexuals only started hidding after the rise of religious opposition. Before then, it was considered very manly.

And while the west tries to abolish homosexuality, the Japanese Samurai are teaching their ways to their apprentices, including sexual accompaniment.

>>9143822
Alexander the Great and Hephaestion were in a relationship, anon.
Aristotle tutored them both and described them as "one soul abiding in two bodies."

Such was their love that when Hephaestion died, Alex tried to commit suicide

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>>9143783
What makes them degenerates?

>>9143894
>Aristotle tortured them both
just as cruel as Platon I guess

>>9143605
>Is there an evolutionary advantage towards homophobia?
Suppressing STIs, mental illnesses and genocidal political ideologies.

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>>9143842
And so what if they are? Does this single instance in anyway disprove what I wrote? Throughout history what you see is that when a society becomes decadent and hedonistic, it it is conquered by those who are more masculine. Now maybe those conquerors don't have the exact same cultural view of sexuality as us, maybe there are instances throughout history of homosexual warriors. For the most part though the trend you see throughout is a civilization rises following its traditional and masculine values and producing lots of children, and eventually it becomes weak, feminized, decadent, hedonistic as a result of its success and more open to things such as homosexual relationships, and that society eventually is conquered by the next guy who is still rising as a traditional masculine force.

>>9143894
Like I said Greek homosexuality is different.

>>9143856
Egypt: Literally everyone's dirtiest bitch for 3000 years, conquered by Assyrians, then Persians, then Greeks, then Romans, then Arabs, then Brits.

Greece: Like I said their homosexuality wasn't the same as ours. They engaged with sex with their slave boys but they still had wives and children.

Sparta: Did you read anything I wrote?

Rome: Probably the best example of what I'm taking about, as their decadence evetually led to them being conquered by the Germanic hordes.

And even so what you wrote if anything supports what I wrote as the ones being fucked are seen as among the lowest members of society.


>Before then, it was considered very manly.

It was considered manly to conquer, not to be gay.

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>>9143894
Fuck off.

Male friendship is a beautiful thing. I'd fucking try to kill myself too if anything happened to my best friends. This degenerate modern world tries to make any male that thats too close to his friends gay. Females can't even conceive of the concept having to make up the word "bromance".

Now fuck off trying to sexualize something thats pure and beautiful.

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>>9143992
>That pic
The clear solution here is hard times all the time.

Also using "they collapsed/got conquered" as an argument against a civilization's attitude towards homosexuality is pretty cheap considering every civilization collapses at some point.

It also disregards all "homophobic" cultures that have also fallen apart throughout history.

>>9144042
Would you disagree that more decadent Civilizations are more open to homosexuality?

>every civilization collapses at some point

Not us (yet)!

>>9143824
>allow homosexuality to reach

Retardbro, do you really think that not persecuting gay people makes other other people less likely to be gay?

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>>9144048
Yes, unless you can point to some evidence that shows Greece or Rome were definitely less tolerant of homosexuality in their primacy than they were during their collapse, and that other long-standing empires shared the same fate.

Bonus points if they fell apart on their own without conquered
5x score multiplier if it's the Umayyads or something

Well, they are a potential threat to other men so there is a reason for a taboo against male homosexuality to arise. They still were rather accepted in a lot of cultures.

>>9143605
I came up with the idea while beeing high, so take it with a grain of salt:
>men have a very strong sex drive and want to fuck everything that moves
>in settings without women, like prison or military, men will fuck other men
>men who prefere fucking other men rather than women have less chance to spread their seed, thus they are less evolutionary fit
>men who are disgusted by gay sex are less likely to settle for other men, and have a higher chance to impregnant women
>thus, beeing disgusted by gay sex has an evolutionary advantage for men

>>9144133
I'm not sure about Greece, but Rome this is basically a known fact.

>>9144133
Rome was collapsing on its own though this is a pretty well known fact...

The barbarians sealed its fate but Rome itself had become weak in spirit, and yes there was tons of sexual degeneracy going on in the city such as homosexuality, and men acting more feminine in general.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavius_Aetius

>>9143605
>Is there an evolutionary advantage towards homophobia?

Tribe is small. Tribe need get big to survive. Tribe need babies.

Grog only fuck men. Grog won't make babies. Beat his ass until he takes a wife. Tribe get strong.

>>9144211
>>9144276
Sure, but that isn't proof that they specifically became more tolerant of homosexuals leading up to their collapse.

>>9144479
If more people are performing homosexual activities thats exactly what that means m8

>>9143611
>>9143672
Almost 100% wrong. It's not a mental illness so much as it is an anxiety issue. People who have a phobia bad enough that it interferes with their overall well-being or happiness are rare. 20% of females and over 10% of males have phobias; almost all of them are thought to have evolved naturally and for good reason.

Here are a few phobias:
Acrophobia - fear of heights. Why did we evolve to retain this trait? Easy: a lot of people who weren't afraid of heights died off early due to falls and climbing injuries.
Arachnophobia - fear of spiders. Spiders are fucking dangerous. They're not a big concern now that we live in houses and have modern medical equipment. But as cavemen sleeping out in the open, on the ground, spider bites were likely more common and obviously more debilitating.
Claustrophobia - fear of being confined in tight spaces. If you're stuck in a hole or about to be buried under a bunch of heavy rocks, panicking probably isn't such a bad idea. Early shelters could become dangerous if packed too tightly so, yes, it was also advantageous a good portion of the time.

Not saying homophobia is right or wrong, but dismissing it as entirely unfounded is moronic.

>>9143605
I'd say homosexualism is advantageous to other non-homossexual individuals, since a larger part of the genetic pool might be available to them

>>9143753
>A comment postulated on /gif/ yesterday was why there is so much gay/trap porn all the time, and whether homosexuality is actually very common, just socially suppressed.
I think your confidence in that statement says a lot about you and less about society.

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>>9143824
>If we allow
/pol/ plz

You really think homosexuality is something we need to curb for the sake of humanity? Here's something that stunted achievement: the fucking Dark Ages. If we're going to learn from history, how about we focus on the complacency that let that shit happen; none of it stemmed from any phobia whatsoever.

People are afraid of spiders and snakes too, and they can be dangerous. But there's no reason to try to purge them completely and, in fact, they are necessary for our ecosystem.

I think your idea of what needs to be done in service of the human race comes from a rather warped perspective, senpai.

>>9143605
I wanted to see if there was any good discussion in this thread, but it's mostly a lot of indoctrinated pseuds stating the "obvious" and shutting down discussion.

This is why we can't have nice things, you know. Grow past yourself, learn and contribute something.

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>>9144569
>Wants a good discussion
>Comes into the thread and shits it up by insulting everyone in his first post

>>9143605
There seems to be some genetic trends that promote homos, like second sons having a higher rate of homoness. I think one of the theories for this is homos tend to have greater emotional intelligence which can help benefit the society that has them

A lot of people truly understand evolution but underestimate where selection pressures can come from, nobody would expect that being cute to humans is a evolutionary benefit to animals but it is now that cuter animals get better conservation funding since people like them more

>>9144586
Not everyone, just the people that deserve the criticism. Hence, "mostly".

Do you not even read the posts anymore before being vapidly contrarian?

>>9143605
Japan has had a falling birth rate and population for decades. Their society is stronger than ever.

Asexuality is the new norm. Accept it.

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If homos are born gay, how come only a minority of identical twins are both gay? Shouldn't it be 100% (or at least close to it)?

Also, how is homosexuality different from other fetishes? Does pic related have a "floor tile gene"?

>>9144622
Your post is so vague and nonspecific it can apply to anyone. I don't think it's contrarian to point out that coming in and acting haughty about the state of the thread without even bothering to give your opinion is a retarded thing to do. You're coming off as extremely pretentious.

>>9144642
>If homos are born gay, how come only a minority of identical twins are both gay? Shouldn't it be 100% (or at least close to it)?
Epigenetics probably

>>9144642
> Shouldn't it be 100%
It is. Your data is simply out of date.

If you pull up a study from the 1950s, expect bias.

>>9144644
It cannot apply to anyone encouraging and engaging in discussion. See, most criticisms make more sense when you bother to read them first.

If you don't bother to understand anyone else, don't expect them to bother with you unless you give them a better reason than insulting them and being defensive about your lack of intellectual integrity. This is reciprocity, and shouldn't be that hard to internalize.

>>9144642
This is the central contradiction in the way some people structure their narratives.

Being gay is not a choice - you are born with it - and yet it deserves protection as a freedom of expression.

See other famous cases like the identical twins where one of them is transgender and the other is functioning fine in the role that biology and society provided for him.

>>9144675
Don't sweat it, mate. It's standard procedure now to consider anyone who speaks as if they know a thing or two "pretentious".

>>9144663
Give me a single study with a big enough sample size and a 100% result.
Most I found are at about 25%, with the highest at 52% and some being at 7%. And this doesn't even take into account the self-selection bias.
There is currently more evidence for it being environmental than genetic. But I feel like today's scientists are pressured into somewhat of a confirmation bias anyway.

>>9144675
I've already made posts about phobias, evolution, and homosexuality. You apparently just came in here to bitch. I read your posts and I don't think I can say there was much in them worth the time.

>>9143992
Everyone gets conquered after enough years have passed, dumbass

>>9144532
That makes sense until you realize that people with those phobias are extremely terrified of it to the point that even seeing it on tv screens are enough to make them shake.

Being scared is an awareness of danger. Paranoia is a different subject and benefits no one

>>9144814
I dunno. I would probably describe myself as an arachnophobe if I had to fill out a census or something, but I'm not so terrified that I'll run away screaming when I see one. In fact, I love the rush I get from killing them; I also occasionally seek out videos of spiders being violently killed. It's probably a coping mechanism to deal with my fear, but I nevertheless wouldn't consider myself terrified of them - just irrationally fearful.

Why do morons believe homosexuals can't have babies? Ever hear of the sneaky fucker strategy?

>>9144700
Did it occur to you that if you've been such a strong contributor to the thread, that perhaps the criticism wasn't for you? Or perhaps you are just calling the kettle black at this point, who knows.

>>9143605
Gays spread more disease and dont make babies.

Imagine if everyone fucked each other in the ass for thousands of years and went home to stick it in the wife.
We'd all be dead from disease.

>>9144532
Homophobia is not a real phobia. Nobody has a panic attack when they see a gay person. People with Arachnaphobia DO have panic attacks when they see a spider.

"Homophobia" is newspeak for "doesn't like gays"

>>9145232
>Imagine if everyone fucked each other in the ass for thousands of years and went home to stick it in the wife.
Read a history book.

>>9143605
Listen up rebel against God, God will not now...God has not ever...God will not ever have same-sex marriage. When you see a people that have elevated sodomy to stand in the place of God-ordained proper marriage between one man and one woman, for life, you are looking at a doomed people!

Ask yourself this every day: Why did GOD destroy Sodom?

>>9143605
The Lord our GOD destroyed Sodom because of their filthy degenerate homosexual life style. If you don't repent and accept Jesus us your savior you'll be going to hell.

>>9143605
Not being by hated by a deity might be an advantage.

John 3:16 is a bastardized bible verse perverted by the priest rape boys catholics.

If God loves everyone, everyone would be heaven. But there are people burning in hell FOR ETERNITY, God doesn't love them.

>>9143728
>being an asshole

You'd think they'd be OK with that...

>>9144042
>Go be a coyote somewhere else.

>>9143728
Leviticus 18:22

>>9146566
He loves them enough to suffer on a cross to give them a chance to escape punishment for their sins.

>>9146566
>we (christians and other non-judaic faiths) will never understand the love of God
just as the blind only see darkness, so do the impious only believe in hatred

>>9146585
Jesus only died for the sins of his elect. Everyone else is doomed to hell for eternity.

Matthew 24:22

>>9146588

Stop lying about Jesus Christ. You may not separate Christ from His Holy Word! Every words about the hatred of God was written by our Lord Jesus Christ.

The Lord our God created AIDS and HIV because the doomed nations of the world stopped giving homosexuality it's just and biblical treatment of capital punishment.

What we think is that every human better be thinking soberly about meeting the Lord their God whom we sin against. USE EVERYTHING YOU HAVE to serve God with fidelity and to preach HIS Gospel of Peace - OBEDIENCE to God. The Lord is coming, the world is doomed! GOD WILL NOT HAVE SAME-SEX MARRIAGE! Read Genesis 19; Judges 19, 20 and 21. Get out of the clouds and get your feet on the ground!

>>9146585
They haven't read the Bible. Does God love the people in hell? How about those destroyed in Sodom & Gomorrah? Those killed in the flood? Every read what's going to happen when Jesus returns? None of it seems to be loving.

>>9146677
>2017
>Not knowing about Tough Love.

>>9146892
>Current year
>Thinking tough love and abuse are the same thing

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>>9144503
But no one has posted any actual evidence yet, or even mentioned any civilization besides Rome.

>>9146892
WHAT PART OF GOD HATES DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND.

>>9143611

this, the idea that we're "evolutionarily wired" to hate a specific thing for a specific reason is almost always wrong.

It's almost always part of a much broader pattern, like "hating what you're not used to"

>>9147179
No, it's because someone actually read the words of the Lord our God,

>>9147179
Or, "hating what we are used to hating".

>>9143605
isnt homophobia just a type of tribalism?

>>9143605
As I read the thread, I find it odd that people who advocate for more useful discussion are dismissed as "pretentious" while others who seem interested in keeping the discussion in the mire and much are entertained.

Methinks OP isn't being completely open with us about their agenda here.

>>9144554
>dark ages
no

>>9143633
Ffs, why can't /pol/ stay in their containment board

>all these fanatics
Baffles me how people still fall for shit like this and quote the bible for whatever reason
Can't wait til we are finally over religion and it's no more then superstition like black cats bringing bad luck or healing stones

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>>9147793
>Baffles me how people still fall for shit like this and quote the bible for whatever reason
Why Reddit keeps flowing here?

>>9147868
>muh sandniggertales

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>>9147868

>>9147954
>correlation is causation
Not that guy, but you're not making yourself look very good in a scientific light.

>>9147883
They were written by the creators of civilization and their teachings are still relevant after 6000 years... vs the opinion of a literal nobody.
Reddit stupidity and demonizing of religion has affected society negatively.
Many relevant figures have based their philosophy on the bible.

>>9147954
So basically Baptists and niggers?

>>9148494
>two deadly sins have been undeposited from your account

>>9146556
Why did Goldilocks eat the porridge?

>>9143605
>evolutionary "advantages" exist
>>>/x/

>>9143605
Yeah just don't think about it. Continue on with your work. Unless you get paid to be gay or to be a homophobe, then well. Suffer through it I guess.
>hates LGBT
>lives better when focus on other shit

>>9144642
>If homos are born gay
This is a stupid proposition easily defeated by some critical thought, because if homos weren't born gay, you and every other man would be able to stare at a picture of a naked man and get an erection and the desire to stick your dick near him, but I'm willing to bet you couldn't, no matter how hard you tried, without thinking about women. Unless you were bisexual, of course.
If you can't choose to be gay on a whim then the only remaining options are that it's genetic, or environmental. It's been proposed that the genes that impart homosexuality also impart bisexuality, which makes you less picky about what you stick your dick into, thereby increasing chances of reproduction. Genetics is the best explanation so far.

>>9151670
>If you can't choose to be gay on a whim then the only remaining options are ...
Why can't it be a process of gradual perversion?
It has been shown many times that high porn consumption (among other factors) can make fetishes more perverted over time.

>because if homos weren't born gay, you and every other man would be able to stare at a picture of a naked man and get an erection
I don't see how this logically follows. How does "You develop a homosexual attraction later on in life" equal to "Everyone is bisexual and can get off to literally everything"? I don't get an erection because I haven't perverted my mind through porn and have no traumatic childhood experience that caused such perversion. People are able to develop fetishes later on in life. Or do you think every fetish (including pedophilia and bestiality) is genetic?

Ever heard of the Walrus Theory?
>The Walrus Theory is the general theory which states that when a guy is around other guys for so long that when he sees an ugly girl she appears very attractive. The theory is derived from sailors hundreds of years ago who would sail for years on end without seeing a single female and would then begin to think that the walruses in the ocean were beautiful mermaids.
It's not a decision you make overnight. If I wanted to I could become gay by gradually perverting my taste through trap porn -> shemales -> feminine man -> full blown faggotry.

You also haven't explained what makes homosexuality different from any other fetish.
>Because the fetish stays within one sex
There are people with a fetish for fucking floor tiles. You think there is a "floor tile gene"?

>Genetics is the best explanation so far.
Like I said before, it isn't. It's just your confirmation bias and has not been proven. Unless you also believe there is a "floor tile gene", a "train gene" and a "The State Of Ohio gene" environmental factors would be consistent with most research in human sexuality.

>>9151800
Lmao, americans and their highschool-tier understanding of biology
Why don't you church chills make a forum of your own instead of luring underage LARPing idiots from here to your cult?

>>9148494

>creators of civilization

>WE

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>>9143894

>Aristotle tutored them both

am I noticing a pattern here?

>>9152034
>implying I'm American
>implying I'm religious
Nowhere have I said such a thing. I'm just looking at the data and it heavily suggests environmental factors like any other fetish. Why should homosexuality be the only exception in this incredibly wide range of human perversion?

>>9143605
Gays against LGBT are the only gays I can accept. All the annoying faggots that try to force their ideology on anyone should be shot.

>>9152034
The only cult here is yours with that LGBT ideology going on.