What's the science behind NoFap? It's extremely difficult

>>9075852
>falling for the nofap meme
OP confirmed for pseud

I had much higher gainz after stopping NoFap
Considering testosterone [math]\implies[/math] gainz, I'm certain NoFap is a meme.
But I'm just a broscientist so what the fuck would I know

>>9075852
None

I don't think fapping has much to do with it at all. Its more about porn addiction.

also, keep in mind that short-term changes in hormone levels may not necessarily translate to long-term health changes

One you stop masturbation, testosterone output increases in the body, increasingly in percentages, for some time. After the level of testosterone secretion has reached its peak, the levels start declining again, i.e. the peak of T levels doesn't last after having refrained from masturbation, but will drop until sexual activity and then rise again after the abstinence of all sexual activity. >>9075869 Explanation.

>>9075889
Basically sexual activity revamps testosterone's increase if one happens to abstain from masturbation for a few weeks after; but will eventually decline until sexual activity and the continued future abstaining therefrom.

>>9075852
omfg there is another one of you retards every day with this same bullshit question.

No-fap is a bullshit meme that actually does absolutely nothing. There are studies that show you have an increased risk of prostate cancer if you don't ejaculate frequently but maybe that's exactly what we need to kill off the retards who actually think no-fap is real.

>>9075896
And then will fall again it's a cycle hooahaha

>>9075869
It seems like it would only benefit T if you went through weekly cycles of NoFap. After that it's back to baseline.

Supposedly ejaculation causes the release of prolactin and DHT. The point of the DHT release is to stimulate male cell growth, in this case to replenish sperm, but it could also help male muscular growth.

Unfortunately, DHT also contributes to balding. Trannies who were balding before transitioning stop after taking anti-DHT drugs, so to a certain extent you need DHT to retain a male body. Balls and balding seem to bepart of the same deal.

>>9075871
Bullshit. Everything we do has a hormonal effect. What I want to know is what the hormonal effect of NoFap is and whether or not it is desirable.

The prolactin thing seems to be linked to cortisol - in other words stress. You bust a nut and keep your head down for a while. It makes sense in an evolutionary context - why take risks after you've just won the prize? But ejaculating from masturbation isn't the prize evolution expected.

What I wonder is how much cortisol is really involved here, whether fapping really causes a state of semi-depression or not, etc.

>>9075879
True. It makes sense that it would cause sexual jadedness. But I'm interested in its overall effect, rather than specifically the dopamine-related stuff.

I take citicoline (CDP Choline, 500mg every 48 hours, I advise against more than that) and I think it has a beneficial effect on my jadedness, making me more sensitive to smaller amounts of dopamine.

You see, that's my problem with the NoFap community. They behave like a herd of sheep, to use an annoying analogy. They approach it almost as if fapping were a moral issue and forget about more direct solutions to their brain and hormone problems. Or in other words, they don't have a clear understanding of what the fuck they are doing to themselves, basically wallowing in the depths of youtube commenter levels of self-awareness.

>>9075887
Also true.

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>>9075852
Everything in moderation.

>>9075852
fapping for nofap is like the jews for the german people in the 30s/40s

the people who do nofap sense that there is a disturbance in their life, and they wrongly assume that it is fapping. and obviously the reported effects are just a placebo as there is a mountain of evidence to suggest that normal fapping is healthy

the real problem in their life could just be dissatisfaction inherent in life, or they have very little control over their actual lives so they restrict the one thing they can restrict aka touching their penis and it gives them a sense of power, or whatever 100 different retarded reasons

it's just fetishism, it's bad science

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Here is the NoFap-Testosterone cycle, probably old news by now. Test clearly isn't the main issue for either the pro or contra arguments.

>>9075897
>No-fap is a bullshit meme that actually does absolutely nothing.
Nothing does nothing, you goddamned yokel. What I want to know is what happens and whether or not it is desirable.

>>9075905
no one but you gives a shit about your masturbation routines. get your pseudo-science personal problems off the /sci board

>>9075902
Gonna need more of that story

>>9075909
This is a subject of general interest to men - unless it's a question that makes you embarrassed, in which case it's a question you don't want to be asked, in which case you are not obliged to answer.

The Test graph seems to indicate that there is a middle way between Nofap and Fap-Errday, which is weekly fapping. I'm interested in all possible benefits or problems involved, not taking any side in particular.

>>9075923
>This is a subject only interesting to boys who just learned how to touch themselves and don't get laid.

ftfy

>>9075903
You're not wrong in saying that there is a lot of placebo nonsense going on in the community - community, what a horrible word - but there isn't a "mountain of evidence" that fapping is healthy. There are just prostate cancer studies. What I'm interested in is the psychological-hormonal side of it.

>>9075925
Yes, normal adult men have sex every day of the week, usually with a cigar in their mouth and a glass of scotch in their hand. I know this because I work at the Business Factory. Shit's high-powered, I wear a tie and curse and stay up late and everything.

Fappin ain't the problem porn is

OP, I made a detailed, citations-based thread on /sci/ a few months ago, I think. It got five replies so I'm just gonna give you the quick rundown.

Reciprocal inhibition of dopamine and prolactin is responsible for the pussifying effects of jerking off. Prolactin also lowers GnRH. Your dopamine, which stays below base level for two weeks after cumming, is responsible for clear, fast, motivated thinking, as evidenced by the mechanism of action of performance-enhancing drugs like Adderall and Ritalin.

There's science to it, it's just incredibly trivial to research because effects are sometimes subjective and nobody really cares if you jerk off or not.

>>9075936
unless you have data, this is all "what you feel". You're just looking for an external cause for your own failure or to explain your behavior. You'll just find some other excuse once you are on a no fap regimen, "oh it's the girls who suck".
there is only one factor in this equation that is constant, and it is you. Once you're at a point where you're having wet dreams every other night you're not magically saving up testosterone to make your more manly, that's the limit.

>>9075936
>Prolactin also lowers GnRH
That's news to me. Thank you for this post.

Could you copypaste some of those citations?

>>9075956
Feelings are chemical, Dr Discount Freud.

>>9075934
I think both are problems in their own right. They just happen to be intertwined.

I haven't been much of a porn fiend ever since I got on my 500mg-48hr citicoline regimen. It's not that I blacklisted the sites or deleted the folder, I just go for it far less than I used to. It takes less to stimulate me. I find I need less novelty. This is the sort of non-moralistic solution that the NoFap guys don't like. They'd prefer to meditate while donating to charity, or something.

>>9075978
feelings are chemical sure, but you can induce feelings, feelings are nor proof. Two people given the same inputs can "feel" differently, none of that is scientific proof of anything.
Just saying, no-fap is pseudoscience which appeals to people who refuse to acknowledge their own shortcomings. "it's not my fault, it's society!"

>>9075978
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1752606
It's also on wikipedia.

>>9075956
I don't even understand your perspective on making this post. Yeah, it's 'me'. 'Me' isn't constant, it's determined by many factors, one of which is whether I jerk off or not.

>>9075996
Psychology, or what passes for it on reddit, is pseudoscience that appeals to people who want to believe they are in total control of their minds.

If you were even a discount Freud, you would know there's a large part of our minds that we are unaware of and unable to influence.

He wrote before the discovery of testosterone. Imagine writing about sexuality without knowing about testosterone. Late in his career, after some advances had been made, he began to talk about something called phylogenetic memory, the idea that people were influenced by ancestral memories. It looks like the first step in the direction of evolutionary psychology to me.

Today we also have neuroscience, and you're still stuck in a self-help book from 1890.

>>9075978
>>9076022
Expanding on this, you can attribute the change in thinking/feeling to less GnRH being produced so you get less testosterone which in turn makes you more 'meek', so to speak. However, I want to make the dopamine connection because it would provide a further explanation and tie up the whole thing nicely.

The one thing that puts a dent into my theory is that it's possible, it's actually fact, that different areas of the brain may have different variant concentrations of the same neurotransmitter, as evidenced by people with schizophrenia having less dopamine in their prefrontal cortex but excessive production in their substantia nigra (I'm not talking about the normal distribution but rather the fact that the production may be affected differently in different areas of the brain). This is where it gets a bit subjective and comes down to feels because there hasn't been any research done as far as I'm aware. A way to examine this would be to pump some rats full of prolactin and then check the dopamine levels in their frontal lobes.

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>>9076022
Thanks.

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>>9076071
I posted that cichlid pic on a whim, because GnRH seemed to be connected to social dominance, but it turns out there are also GnRH studies on cichlids in just that area. I wonder if methionine has a GnRH connection - a precursor nutrient, maybe?

>>9076060
In my citicoline experiment, I'm not getting higher levels of dopamine as such. I'm not fiending for novel information or sensation any more than usual, just more sensitive to it. I think this is because my dopamine receptors are being affected rather than my dopamine levels. Obviously, gut feeling is not the same as research, so here's some research.

>Changes in brain striatum dopamine and acetylcholine receptors induced by chronic CDP-choline treatment of aging mice.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1908237/pdf/brjpharm00231-0009.pdf
>Thus, CDP-choline treatment seems to improve the dopamine receptor and also the muscarinic cholinoceptor function through increases in the receptor number.

Taking this in a GnRH direction, it's possible NoFap sensitises GnRH receptors rather than increasing base GnRH.

I'm largely in the dark on this subject, working from limited knowledge, but it seems to me that sensitization or growth of receptors is generally the way to go, rather than stimulating the relevant NT's production.

I think the answer should really be "reduce Fap" instead of "No Fap".

I think it's way to much to ask people to never fap; rather it's better to just reduce the frequency. Essentially, just try to fap less not never.

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>>9075852
>What's the science behind NoFap?
It's a meme made up by pseudoscientists religious zealots and hacks.
>On the one hand, you have twelve year olds passionately defending masturbation
>Teenagers complaining about religion, missing the point entirely.
So actually bothering to know basic biology and endocrinology and pointing out the fact that anti-masturbation campaigns have histories of being spearheaded by religious idiots makes you twelve or a teenager? You can literally find the religiously charged, pseudoscientific underpinnings of no fap on wikipedia
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harvey_Kellogg#Masturbation_prevention
>http://mentalfloss.com/article/32042/corn-flakes-were-invented-part-anti-masturbation-crusade
> Normies, being morons and mentioning prostate cancer studies they have never read, and which have no NoFap group to compare the different masturbation groups to.
The info on prostate cancer is pretty clear and there's not much to read, explain or discuss and you don't have to be a genius to undertsnd it. They did good work along with comparisons, did a ten year follow up and found consistent evidence for prostate cancer protection; on top of their studies matching up with past science done on the subject.
>http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/researchers-say-frequent-ejaculation-could-save-mens-lives/news-story/dedd2ce2cb85c9cf6ff67f24c455dbe5
>http://www.europeanurology.com/article/S0302-2838(16)00377-8/abstract/ejaculation-frequency-and-risk-of-prostate-cancer-updated-results-with-an-additional-decade-of-follow-up
>http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/researchers-say-frequent-ejaculation-could-save-mens-lives/news-story/dedd2ce2cb85c9cf6ff67f24c455dbe5
>http://www.webmd.com/prostate-cancer/news/20040406/frequent-ejaculation-prostate
>http://urology.jhu.edu/newsletter/prostate_cancer712.php
>http://www.frequenturinationinmenexplained.com/ejaculation-and-prostate-cancer/
>(cont.)

>>9076224
OK, that graph seems clear cut.

Do you know what would reduce the risk of prostate cancer to zero? Chemical castration. Alternatively, become a transsexual.

Nature is lazy. It's a question of use it or lose it. Masculinity is the same. If you have sex constantly (or masturbate constantly, it's all the same from the body's perspective,) then you have very little need to be combative, assertive, dominant, or even interested in your environment. Your androgen production drops. This includes DHT, which stimulate prostate growth, which increases the risk of misgrowth AKA cancer.

You miss the point entirely, because you have no interest in, as you say, "basic biology and endocrinology," and are more interested in your incredibly boring and parochial ideological conflicts.

Nobody cares about your sexually repressed childhood. I certainly don't. What I care about getting closer to the most desirable state of neurological and hormonal health. That means considering options your sunday school teacher might smile at, for reasons your sunday school teacher might frown at.

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>>9076224
>(cont.)
>>9075860
>>9075869
>>9075871
These
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2013/07/no-fap-more-like-no-fucking-way.html?zx=5c392185e96536fa
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/09/enough-already-sex-and-baddassery-are.html
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/09/enough-already-sex-and-baddassery-are_07.html
>>9075936
>Reciprocal inhibition of dopamine and prolactin is responsible for the pussifying effects of jerking off.
No they aren't.
>Prolactin also lowers GnRH. Your dopamine, which stays below base level for two weeks after cumming, is responsible for clear, fast, motivated thinking, as evidenced by the mechanism of action of performance-enhancing drugs like Adderall and Ritalin.
>>9076060
And these two specific two hormones you're trying to pin such a high of responsibility on are no where near as culpable as your trying to make them out to be. It also sound you got this straight form reddit, Gary Wilson/Your Brain On Porn
>https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/women-who-stray/201701/no-dopamine-is-not-addictive
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prolactin

>>9076260
Oh, of course. I am apparently just as ashamed of masturbating as these canned fruit eating flyovers who hate their sunday school teacher. That explains everything. I haven't heard so much deep psychology since I last watched a daytime talk show.

It's a shame that feelings are chemical, and that no amount of kumbaya and downhome knowhow will change that.

>>9076248
>If you have sex constantly (or masturbate constantly, it's all the same from the body's perspective,) then you have very little need to be combative, assertive, dominant, or even interested in your environment. Your androgen production drops. This includes DHT, which stimulate prostate growth, which increases the risk of misgrowth AKA cancer.
Except it doesn't. And I literally just went over the info about cancer in the post you responded to.
>http://m.joe.endocrinology-journals.org/content/52/1/51.short
>http://answers.webmd.com/answers/5004889/what-nutrients-do-you-lose-when-ejaculating-or-masterbating-do-you-lose-testerone-
>https://www.healthtap.com/user_questions/1294935-how-long-does-your-body-take-to-replace-the-nutrients-lost-by-masturbation
>https://www.anabolicmen.com/ejaculation-testosterone/
>https://www.anabolicmen.com/sex-and-testosterone/
>You miss the point entirely, because you have no interest in, as you say, "basic biology and endocrinology, "and are more interested in your incredibly boring and parochial ideological conflict
Nice projection, self important pontification and failure acknowledge, let alone read what I posted. You're clearly more interested in downing whatever meme science people who don't know what they're talking about want to sell you.

>>9076248
holy shit this projection. Chemical castration does not stop you from having a prostate, are you an idiot? Neither does being a transexual, short of SRS.
>Nobody cares about your sexually repressed childhood. I certainly don't. What I care about getting closer to the most desirable state of neurological and hormonal health. That means considering options your sunday school teacher might smile at, for reasons your sunday school teacher might frown at.
holy projection batman.

i just wonder what you will blame when you do nofap and don't have women dying to have sex with you left and right.

>>9076282
>>9076286
damn, projectionhivemind

>>9075889
This actually makes sense as I tend to jerk off like twice a day for a couple days and then don't for like five days. I tend to just do what I feel.

If sex is mediocre for you idk what to say as everyone does it differently and you can go through phases easily. Boning someone you care about feels great but so does nsa. Getting off yourself feels good, getting the other person off feels good, being more dominant/more submissive.. Everything feels best when it's in phase.

Glad to know others are more neurotic than I am. I guarantee you a guy who does everything else right is gonna have higher testosterone than a guy who simply does not fap.

Even then it's a total crapchute. A guy with good genes is gonna be more fit than a guy with shit genes even if he busts his ass. And on top of that there's size. It's possible to be a giant out of shape beta who can lift more than a normal sized alpha.

There is no amount of optimization that can overcome all of this. That doesn't however mean you shouldn't try. It just means you shouldn't waste so much time caring what others think and debating. I have no idea what OP's current status is but I've never really given much thought to no fap. I've gone months without fapping but only because I was insanely anxious and depressed. Who cares

>>9076282
Yeah, clearly.
Here's a Testosterone/nofap graph:
>>9075905

>>9076286
You don't know how cancer works. Cancer is malign cell growth or cell misgrowth. Cell growth can be stimulated by sex hormones. Breast cancer is the most common cancer for women because their sex hormones wax and wane, creating more risk of misgrowth. Likewise with men and the prostate. Eliminating the androgen that causes prostate growth reduces the chance of me talking to a brick wall that is offended about something I do not care to determine.

Blame? I am assessing the facts and trying to find a more optimum way of doing things. From the facts at hand, it seems like I shouldn't be masturbating more than once a week.

Yes, I am projecting. I am an American, from the state of... Saskasota. Yes. We eat ketchup and hotdogs in Saskasota, and trim our penises of the unholy skin, then worship Gawd and cornflakes. We do this because we as American as apple tart.

And as for sex, I have never had it. It is not like fucking a bag of sand at all. Wow, sex, people claim to have that? They must be telling fibs.

>>9075902
>>9075910
I don't think that is a genuine article, its a story

>>9076317
I won't dispute that I'm neurotic. I don't really see it as a problem. My lack of interest in sex feels like a missed opportunity, though. Not interest in lifting bales of hay or whatever.

>>9076260
>No they aren't.
Fuck me mate, that's some solid evidence. Care to present a counterpoint?

>not important, straight from reddit etc
No, as far as I was concerned before you mentioned reddit this was my own original theory that I expanded upon. The article you linked literally doesn't change anything.

>Dopamine’s role here is NOT that it makes you feel good.
>Dopamine’s role in pleasure and reward is that it helps your brain to recognize “incentive salience.”
>Dopamine is about learning that rewards feel good, so we can do them again.
So literally the same thing as addiction.

Linking wikipedia does not do you any good since everything I hypothesize stems from there.

>>9076349
>Fuck me mate, that's some solid evidence. Care to present a counterpoint?
I did. Care to actually read what I posted?
>No, as far as I was concerned before you mentioned reddit this was my own original theory that I expanded upon
Which is exact same as dopamine /prolactin pseudoscience bullshit from the no fap subreddit/YBOP and Gary Wilson, which is wrong pseudoscience garbage Even if it isn't from reddit it's still bullshit. Congratulation you manage to come with more bad science on your own just like a bunch of other pseudoscintists did..
>The article you linked literally doesn't change anything.
>This level of not reading agian
>So literally the same thing as addiction.
I just pointed out how it wasn't.
>Linking wikipedia does not do you any good since everything I hypothesize stems from there.
Well i linked Wikipedia, you didn't read. Guess nothing either of us did did any good, huh

>>9075852
Just don't play with your peepee for a while. Investigate for yourself.

Not masturbating does change your mindset, mental patterns, and self experience. What aspects are psychological, and what are more hard physiological effects, is difficult to say. It's not profound, but it is noticeable.

I don't do "nofap", I just don't masturbate for a while occasionally. Usually a week or so. It just doesn't occur.

>>9076317
>A guy with good genes is gonna be more fit than a guy with shit genes even if he busts his ass.
>There is no amount of optimization that can overcome all of this.
>What is adaptation and epigenetics
This is neither true nor completely unchangeable. Changes in genes and especially changes when you exercise happen, all of the time. And there are definitely lifters, both professional and non, and athletes that had "shit genes" and and got fitter, stronger and better than those that had "good genes". Top atheletes in sports didn't always have 'great' genes either
>http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/31821/title/Exercise-Alters-Epigenetics/
>http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/32637/title/Lamarck-and-the-Missing-Lnc/
>http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/44873/title/RNA-Epigenetics/
>http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/47568/title/More-than-40-New-Papers-on-Epigenetics-Published/
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2009/09/stemming-tide-of-deevolution.html
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2009/10/more-on-excellence-of-paleolithic-man.html
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2009/02/im-hardgaining-ectomorph-and-stuart.html

>>9076327
>Here's a Testosterone/nofap graph
That graph is from the same constantly rehashed no fap study and only proves test rises in insignificant amounts on no fap then goes back down. Which I not only went over with the links I posted, but I also included conculsive and consistent evidence that fapping doesn't negatively affect testosterone and the fact that long term on no fap test tanks. The chart doesn't disprove my posts

>>9076475
epigenetics != changing core genetics

No fap is a real thing. Prolonged fapping can lead to an overall decrease in self growth on all different facets. Everytime you gap you loose bodily proteins and enzymes that get regulated throughout the body to keep you in check in whatever it is that gets you closer to procreating kids. No fap has transverse effects on all the different concious states of mind down to your unconscious as everytime you nut you release zinc which keeps your hair looking fresh. Sooner or later it starts effecting you psychologically if your balding in your early 20s

Teenagers defend masturbation because stupid christians tell them that hair will grow on their hands; that it's gonna fall off; that it's gonna ruin their life; that it's a sinful thing that's gonna send them straight to hell.

Nofaps assert, without any actual scientific evidence except their own theories, that porn and masturbation have an effect on the brain that's similar to drugs: changes in the dopaminergic reward pathways of the brain that will gradually lower pleasure sensation achieved with each orgasm and creating a compulsion to fap. With drugs, over time people will go from impulse to compulsion: they will stop using it because it feels good and eventually start using it because their brain is conditioned to, as well as to manage withdrawal symptoms. They essentially say this logic also applies to masturbation as well. Modern medicine understands many behaviors, such as gambling and, more recently, eating, can precipitate such a condition. They're essentially saying: why not masturbation, too?

>>9076379
Are you baiting? Show me how it's wrong. I'm not reading some blog you posted, I read the wikipedia article which perfectly supports my claims and I read the psychology today article which says absolutely nothing apart from semantics about dopamine which are not important because I care about the physical effects in the brain and not about how we define it as behavior.

Please greentext how my claims are being disproved, you've evidently already posted it.

>>9076525
>Play with peepee for the first time in a while
>Feels pretty good
>Play with peepee repeatedly
>Feels, but feel is not processed as so good
>Play with peepee multiple times everyday
>Feel is just a presence, orgasm is just an end
>Not adequately explained by mechanical degredation or depletion of neurotransmitters /glycogen stores by local sensory neurons, or central processing circuitry
>Likely indicates a tolerance-like effect
>Habituation and psychological attachment likely underlies both the genesis and continuation of the behavior. Withdrawal is secondary to psychological features.

What I don't understand is the initiation and composition of the states between rest and orgasm. Why can you be close to orgasm, switch to stimulating different areas that are just as pleasurable, and yet not trigger orgasm? They are clearly all linked and yet somehow also decoupled.

>>9076545
Sexual stimulation seems to be handled separately from general sensory stimuli by the brain. This 2015 meta-analysis supports the idea that there are two cortical representations in the brain for genital sensory input:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4357265/

More study is needed.

>>9076483
I say fapping affects test. You say it doesn't. I remind you it has been proven that it does on a weekly cycle.

And now you're moving goalposts, because apparently a 150% increase in testosterone towards the end of the week is insignificant, because after all, it's not as if certain days of the week are well known for providing more sexual opportunities for men unburdened by shyness.

Maybe you should post another dozen links that nobody will read.

>>9076492
I take zinc picolinate, so that's not the issue. The "vital fluids" theory only makes sense if you're living on the verge of malnutrition. If you're eating (or supplementing) well, then the issues are hormonal and neurological.

>>9075897
Butthurt chronic masturbator.

Medically speaking, what is the difference between cumming from masturbation, and cumming from sex with another person? Do you not lose/gain the same amount of same stuff either way? Isn't 'nofap' just a form of social control with no scientific basis?

>>9075852
>What's the goddamned science, /sci/?
Well, what facts and evidence are these twelve year olds, Teenagers, Normies, redditors, Virgins, People with zinc deficiencies and yokels arguing over? If it is meme clickbait blogs like >>9076475 's links or a 2 hour youtube video and they can't even be bothered to get the link to the study it is based on you are under no obligation to give a shit.

>>9077422
The main issue is that excessive masturbation leads to a depressed state of jadedness and lack of motivation where sex is not pursued, while sex leads to more sex, which is more psychologically desirable.

If you're in a state where you lack motivation to pursue sex, non-sexual motivations are also depressed. Conflict and risk are avoided. One anon called this the pussifying effect.

The issues lie in endocrinology and neurology. It's not just about the semen.

A boiled egg and 20mg of zinc picolinate pretty much have your semen expenditure covered - although the guys on a cheetos and mountain dew diet will be amazed at how non-shit they feel after their bodies start using zinc elsewhere in the body than in constant sperm production, that is easily corrected by non no-fap methods such as supplementation.

Why would something that occurs in nature not have a scientific basis?
If one state is different than another, they can be compared scientifically, and a judgement can be made about which is more desirable.

>>9077626
the amount of broscience in this post is mind blasting

>>9077646
Do you feel like having sex after you've just had sex?
I'm asking if ejaculation leads to a state of sexual disinterest after you have sex.
In your experience, would you say this is true?

>>9077422
If by "losses" you mean the spermatozoa cells and the seminal fluid... That's literally the stupidest "science" these no-fappers talk about. The amount of nutrients "lost" is absolutely negligible. Spermatogenesis is constant in the male. If you don't ejaculate, old spermatozoa will just die off anyway.

It is scientifically unknown whether orgasm involving a female is any different than one involving your hand. I'd say they probably yield different reward patterns in the brain.

>>9077626
>endocrine

?

>>9076541
>Are you baiting?
No
>Show me how it's wrong.
I've done enough already and I'm not about to do your homework you should have done yourself for you.
>I'm not reading some blog you posted
At least you admit to not reading.
>I read the wikipedia article which perfectly supports my claims and I read the psychology today article which says absolutely nothing apart from semantics about dopamine which are not important because
If you'rte saying that about either of them then you clearly didn't read them, not a surprise there.
>I care about the physical effects in the brain and not about how we define it as behavior.
And if you actually read any of what I posted you'd see that I've gone over those.
>Please greentext how my claims are being disproved, you've evidently already posted it.
Again t=do the reserach you should have done on your own and stop asking people to hold your hand because you'd rather down pseudoscientific garbage
>>9077373
>I say fapping affects test. You say it doesn't.
Because it doesn't in any significant way
>And now you're moving goalposts
I've never moved goalposts
>because apparently a 150% increase in testosterone towards the end of the week is insignificant
And it is. There are more effective methods that do a better job and way to ignore the fact that afterwards it goes back to normal and long term on no fap testosterone tanks.
>Maybe you should post another dozen links that nobody will read.
That would at least be the only actual science ITT

>>9077422
>Medically speaking, what is the difference between cumming from masturbation, and cumming from sex with another person?
Went over these here
>>9076224
>http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/researchers-say-frequent-ejaculation-could-save-mens-lives/news-story/dedd2ce2cb85c9cf6ff67f24c455dbe5
>http://www.europeanurology.com/article/S0302-2838(16)00377-8/abstract/ejaculation-frequency-and-risk-of-prostate-cancer-updated-results-with-an-additional-decade-of-follow-up
>>9076260
>>9076282
And you can find info on wikipedia
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masturbation#Health_effects
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_intercourse#Health_effects
>Do you not lose/gain the same amount of same stuff either way?
Nothing of any consequence and the miniscule amount of nutrients you lose can easily be replenished by eating
>http://answers.webmd.com/answers/5004889/what-nutrients-do-you-lose-when-ejaculating-or-masterbating-do-you-lose-testerone-
>https://www.healthtap.com/user_questions/1294935-how-long-does-your-body-take-to-replace-the-nutrients-lost-by-masturbation
>Isn't 'nofap' just a form of social control with no scientific basis?
Yes, made up by religious zealots, pseuds and hacks
>>9077437
Way to ignore everything else I posted and handwave actual facts that's aren't your pseudoscience drivel

>>9077872
You are clueless. I'm sorry I engaged you thinking you were serious.

>>9077852
>Spermatogenesis is constant in the male.
Which is why if you ejaculate twice within a short period, there is less the second time. There is less because there is always an equal amount of sperm in the body.

Similarly, whether you walk 5 miles or 10 miles on an empty stomach, you will have the same appetite afterwards. I am a biology, and you can too.

>>9077872
150% is not an insignificant increase.

>There are more effective methods
Name one. And please, do not suggest anabolic steroids.

>afterwards it goes back to normal
Yes. I noticed that when I looked at the graph I posted.
I know you really enjoy jacking off, but why are you so offended that I am investigating the benefits of reducing it to once per week? Why are you offended that I am curious about other effects outside of testosterone?

Yes, we've heard of wikipedia. Here is a quote from what you linked.
>It is held in many mental health circles that masturbation can relieve depression and lead to a higher sense of self-esteem.
This explains why you resent being called a jackoff. You think I'm saying that you have too much self-esteem and are too full of good cheer.

>>9077934
But he's read so many wikipedia articles!

>>9077934
Link to one proper scientific study about the effects of absteince relating to masturbation then, prove us all wrong and that NoFap works, if not then don't waste everyones time.

>>9078019
If there was such a study I assume there would be no argument about it, so I won't bother looking for one. I'm asking you to use facts and basic logic to reach a conclusion.

>Prolactin inhibits GnRH
This is a fact
>GnRH stimulates LH which stimulates testosterone production
This is a fact
>Testosterone just happens to increase after an orgasm for a straight week while coincidentally the prolactin levels that are at their highest after an orgasm fall back
This is a fact.

If you're not seeing a pattern here either show me a neurophysiology degree and call me a retard or present some evidence that says those things are irrelevant.

>>9078019
>>9078096
To be clear I'm not taking you seriously by replying, I'm showing anyone reading this thread that you are dumb.

>>9077411
He's right
>>9078019
>if not then don't waste everyones time.
That's all he does. He's spammed this shit on other boards as well

>>9078099
???
All I said was link to a scientific paper backing up your claims that not masturbating, that the whole NoFap thing, is better than just being normal

Clearly you have no evidence to back you up other than a friend of a friend told me and your own feelings -thank you for showing me no evidence to support your claim, ill ignore you from now on.

>>9078207
The post above the one you're responding to literally has verified scientific data that you're deliberately ignoring. I don't understand why you're making these obtuse posts.

>>9078116
No, I haven't.

>>9078248
> literally has verified scientific data
would you mind selecting that post, cant seem to see it, i followed up the track of post numbers but cant find a link to what you are referring to - its probably a case of it being right in front of me but I just don't see it, could you repost it or link to it? I'm not being sarcastic I just couldn't find it

>>9078343
>>9078096
I didn't bring up dopamine on purpose as to not complicate things, most posters in this thread obviously don't have the background for it.

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>>9078359
?

>>9078367
>got
cringe desu

>>9078394
cringe
surprised you didn't have a fit cause its from tumblr, ive actually seen that happen on 4chan before, your getting better anon at not providing your sources, references

>>9078000
So what if there's less sperm in the semen if you ejaculate too frequently? All that could possibly do is reduce your chance of impregnating a woman. You think the brain has emitted some special neurons to the epididymis just to get feedback on how many spermatozoa are in there? And if it's too low it just goes "aw shucks time to feel sad and unmotivated now" ?

>>9075852
there is no science. you'll just feel better emotionally psychologically once you stop jerking off to guys having sex with morally deprived/sexually obsessed women.

I would say spiritually, but /sci/ doesn't believe in souls

my last great nofap was ended when i started dating a girl who i had sex with regularly then she dumped me.

now i think porn is a jew trap to deprive men of their seed which makes then stronger and more balanced once concentrated after 7 days.

women are in on it, and will abotage/shame you if you resist ejaculation and put that energy into activities that'll make you better than them.

porn and fap givewomen power over your mind by attuning your dopamine to rewards only women can give.

If you stop pursuing these base rewards, you'll notice a concered effort to break your willpower

which is why I keep at it.

also a friend of my exgf started doing porn and it's weird seeing her gaping asshole, and taking giant black cocks and get cum in her face.

she was a mathematics major with a minor in programming or some shit, graduated in 3 years and now sucking cock for money.

>>9075852
The greatest physical and mental argument for nofap I've found is based on my own anecdotal experience. Basically it's beneficial just to let your brain reset and get off the vicious cycle of craving constant chemical bombardment through orgasm. After the first two weeks you really do start to feel free from a need to fap every day, and the body starts to regulate its sexual needs better. I didn't experience any real energy boost though after the first two weeks. And most of the energy boost in the first two weeks came from doing things to take my mind off fapping.

So, if I just don't watch porn or masturbate, because I don't personally like those activities, and I don's have sex at all because I don't feel strong need to fuck, then I'll just die because of cancer? So I am forced to have sex and masturbate so I just will not die? That's just stupid imo.

>>9079442
Nah
Most people dont read the studies and most studies are hardly conclusive on any one angle because they don't account for every factor.

I don't think a lot of you understand what NoFap is about. While everyone is of course allowed their own meme interpretation of it, the general consensus is that NoFap is a response to the overexposure to porn which can manifest antisocial behaviors in some people. Its not healthy for the psyche in my opinion to watch progressively degenerate forms of porn (abuse, tranny, cuck, etc...) and affects the way you interact with women in the real world (or don't interact). It's not about test levels. It's not about feeling guilty. It's a form of self improvement that encourages you to seek sexual satisfaction in the real world instead of through the computer screen.

I haven't fapped in over a week due to depression.

I cant get hard, at all.

>>9078407
You seem like a really annoying person to be around, I hope you have friends outside of this website :^)

>>9080028
Interestingly my porn tastes went softer instead of harder.

>>9077852
>It is scientifically unknown whether orgasm involving a female is any different than one involving your hand.
Yep. Thrusting your estrogen receptor etc laden penis into the warmth of another human being, smelling her scents, feeling her skin, her curves, swapping and ingesting bodily fluids, hearing her sounds, possibly connecting in a way beyond simply feeling her body, will obviously produce a global state of body and mind similar to just using your hand. Any differences being trivial, of course. It's not like pheromones and hormone signalling along with biased if not outright hardcoded neurological circuitry have been used for millennia by mammals to drive pair bonding behaviors.

Just take a look at what you're actually saying. Yes, being in a context where you're putting your dick in a woman is going to produce significantly different downstream effects than using your hand. Sex (generally) isn't just masturbation that feels better, and this is quite well known to science. The mechanistic approaches we've already taken to understanding the human machine say a lot if you choose to listen, and think.

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>>9080715
>Thrusting your estrogen receptor etc laden penis into the warmth of another human being, smelling her scents, feeling her skin, her curves, swapping and ingesting bodily fluids, hearing her sounds, possibly connecting in a way beyond simply feeling her body, will obviously produce a global state of body and mind similar to just using your hand.

Stupid crystal healing-tier hippie bullshit.