Are software engineers and artists the only future secure professions

>>9041008
What makes you think AI can't write programs or paint a picture?

>>9041008
the only secure professions will be service industry type jobs dealing with people
and social work

>>9041012
Not the OP but I reckon there will always be a demand for human created art if only for authenticity's sake.

Commercial art, graphic design, composition, and sound design on the other hand will fall to the machines far earlier than most people in those fields expect.

Can't wait for singularity to happen and replace all humanity. Humans were a mistake.

>>9041120
If you can't wait why don't you kill yourself now?

>>9041172
maybe he wants to watch it happen

>>9041047
>for authenticity's sake.
What happens when AI art is more original and interesting? Most human art is just rehashing established doctrine and works.

>>9041047
Art yes, but programming no.

There is a gold rush right now to create programs that can program themselves. The first person to do it can fire everybody at Faceberg, Google and Apple except management and make a gagillion shekels for themselves in licensing fees.

Programming is probably the first job to be automated, specifically any kind of low level library stringing together type programming. Specialists in computation will still exist, but they will exist as scientists that run programs who program their research for them.

>>9041120
okay Nick Land

>>9042091
>art
>not being automated as we speak
how new are you

>>9042091
>The first person to do it can fire everybody at Faceberg, Google and Apple
And this is why Gates talks about taxes for automated workers
It's going to happen sooner or later

>>9041008
but anon there are already AI that write software


and also

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SacogDL_4JU&t=901s

>>9042007
Art and philosophy has some value because it is produced by a human. It reflects a frivil, emotional, ultimately lonely mind. Computers may pass the "art turning test" but humans will appreciate human art and philosophy always

>>9041008
Please, when the singularity happens, art and software engineering won't be safe, either.

>>9041008
Can you automate shitposting? (protip: you can't)

>>9042627
http://www.masswerk.at/elizabot/

>>9042612
philosophy, sure
art? no, most won't care about who made a piece of art and if it's shown than an AI did it will only make it more popular.
>It reflects a frivil, emotional, ultimately lonely mind.
Is shallow, none-existent bullshit that will be emulated 100x more effectively by AI within a few short decades.

>>9042627
shitpostgenerator.tumblr.com

>>9041008
Salespeople
Nurses
Firemen
Entrepreneurs
Accountants
Financial analysts
Stockbrokers
Commodities traders
Builders
Welders
Plumbers
Handymen
Lawyers
Architects
Doctors
Paramedics
Film producers / editors / directors / actors
Record producers / engineers / talent executives
Etc.
Etc.

I think we'll be alright

>>9042916
lol dude wtf, doctors are among the first to be automated, see watson.

>>9042916
>Accountants
>Financial analysts
>Stockbrokers
>Commodities traders
>Lawyers
>Architects
>Doctors
>Film producers / editors / directors / actors
>Record producers / engineers /

What do you mean? All of these are already partly automated.

>>9041008
Software engineering is one of the less secure professions. There are lots of SEs who are code monkeys and automation will cull them in numbers. This means that theres more competition for other aspects of the job.

File: muvluv.png (341KB, 1025x601px) Image search: [Google]

341KB, 1025x601px

>>9041008
Is there any good authority person on the subject I can learn about likelihood of an AI in our lifetime, and the implications. If I asked anywhere else I'd be linked to Sam Harris regurgitating the books he's read.

File: images (11).jpg (7KB, 308x164px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 308x164px

>>9041036 >>9041008 >>9042916

Amazon is crushing & killing millions of jobs in Department Stores, Retail Stores & Book Stores.


http://www.marketwatch.com/story/amazon-is-going-to-kill-more-american-jobs-than-china-did-2017-01-19

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-12/how-amazon-killed-department-store-five-charts

http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-is-killing-department-stores-2016-5

https://www.fastcompany.com/3066110/is-amazon-killing-jobs-and-destroying-communities

File: aFi2ytZl.jpg (65KB, 640x640px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 640x640px

>>9041036 >>9042916 >>9042937

Even Fast Food Restaurants like Mc Donald's want to automate everything

Killing the Jobs for STEM DropOuts & Bachelors in Humanities ( ͡° u ͡°)
>May I take your order, sir/ma'am?

I study finance and when I try to learn something, I have huge feeling of meaningless, because my work will be probably automated soon. Fuck you, /sci

File: images (12).jpg (9KB, 264x191px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 264x191px

>>9042931
>Software engineering is one of the less secure professions. There are lots of SEs who are code monkeys and automation will cull them in number

Or be replaced by Cheap Pajeets willing to work for the half of USA minimum wage.

>>9042702

Not him but the trick for human Artists is the appeal to emotion. Something computers no matter how pretty they make picture can't do.

It's hard to automate art involving shit like love and satire. Now maybe this will change when true A.I. comes into the picture but general automation won't cut it.

you all are toal idiots.

t. computer scientist

File: images (13).jpg (13KB, 203x248px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 203x248px

>>9042968
However Shitty Modern Art in Picasso Style surely can be automated.

Because even a child can do Modern Art.

>>9041008
There's heaps of secure professions. But anything to do with software and art are probably the least secure. Secure professions can't be outsourced overseas, need a degree/accreditation, and something where more experience equals more security.

The safest profession is residential engineering. Do renovations, inspections, and residential design. Must have a degree. Must have experience. Cannot be outsourced. Cannot be automated.

File: download (11).jpg (6KB, 225x225px) Image search: [Google]

6KB, 225x225px

>>9042968

Computers can now generate photorealistic Human portraits.

As this Pic from the link below.
https://www.cgtrader.com/blog/portraits-of-the-21st-century-the-most-photorealistic-3d-renderings-of-human-beings

File: 12e21daa08d3af80405518ff8cd19993.jpg (232KB, 1200x648px) Image search: [Google]

232KB, 1200x648px

>>9042968 >>9042980

Computer can also create Landscapes & Architectural Scenarios in 2d & 3d.

>>9042930
Any job where people can be sued will not be taken over by AI in out lifetime. You think IBM will want to take liability for billions of diagnosis?

>>9042979
Computer science does sort of suck with job security, not a lot of tenured positions and you have to keep on re-tooling (going back to school, so to speak) in order to keep up with new technology etc/move forward in the field.

File: iPxjEn7.gif (2MB, 620x650px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 620x650px

>>9041008 >>9042916 >>9042931
Even Porn & Prostitution can be Automated.

Computer science is such a joke. Yeah it's great when you're 20 or 25 learning everything but you still wanna be learning software when you're 50 with a family? And competing with the young 20's who will be learning the same software and 10x faster than you? Anything to do with software is a shit job that you will hate when you're older.

File: predator-desert-600x400.jpg (26KB, 600x400px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 600x400px

>>9042916
>>9042931

Military (specially the Air Force) is being automated with Military Drones.

File: HankookMiraeTechnology_ProjectMethod_InitialDesigns_21-1200x853.jpg (83KB, 1200x853px) Image search: [Google]

83KB, 1200x853px

>>9042992
Infantry bipedal military robots coming soon.

>>9042991
You really don't know how any of this works it seems. I would help you if you paid me.

>>9042007
The issue is "more original and interesting" to who? The gatekeepers of the art world are critics and gallery owners, arty types that will be loathe to accept that their chosen field can be mastered by an unthinking machine. In the short term you'll probably see some AI art in exhibitions but long term the art world won't go for it.

In terms of value art is bought by rich cunts to show off their wealth or own a piece of history or a rarity, you won't get that with AI art. I guess the ultimate issue unlike chess or go or identifying pictures of cats, art has no objective measure so the art world can always hide behind some ineffable bollocks about the human soul.

>>9043004
The thing with computers and AI is that it isn't very strong, strong as people think when they panic about it stealing their job.

Doctors, surgeons, etc, will all use computers more and more in their professions. Just like we see today. Only at an increased rate, at least for the foreseeable future. Even those drones in the military, require drone technicians. The ultimate brains behind a computer will continue to be the human one, for a long time to come.

>>9042998
And how does it work? My uncle studied programming at uni in the 80s. You think what he learnt is applicable now?

>>9043008
Not really, but it's cool as fuck. Kids won't steal your job as a programmer, as they're really not as impressive as you think. If he started programing in the 80s his skillz are probably insane at this point.

>>9043010
The software industry is big in America, so that's why you'll hear a lot about it on an English speaking image board. To hear more about robotics you'd have to learn Japanese and go on 2chan.

>>9043008
I'll help u get started in the industry if you pay me, I can give you advice and stuff at a fee

>>9043014
Other than that I don't really want to explain right now

>>9042612
>It reflects a frivil, emotional, ultimately lonely mind.
>>9042968
>Not him but the trick for human Artists is the appeal to emotion.

This is something given by the viewer though, not transmitted by the artist.

If you show algorithmic art to critics when they know its by an AI they'll all say its sterile, lifeless, lacking in emotional content. Do a double blind test alongside human compositions and they can't tell the difference. David Cope did this with his music composition algorithm and the critics said all sorts of shit about the nuances of the generated works believing them to be human.

>>9043020
interesting

>>9043014
You obviously need the money. Thanks for the offer but i'd rather kill myself

>>9042985
Easy, just say that AIs are people and have them take the brunt of legal action.

>>9043004

>In terms of value art is bought by rich cunts to show off their wealth or own a piece of history or a rarity,

This is actually a good point, the linchpin of art particularly fine art is it's finite amount. With automation (and digital art in general) you pretty much destroy this aspect. In some ways it actually makes old art worth more just because the lack of people practicing non commercial/ digital art.

>>9042935
Anyone who actually knows anything about machine learning doesn't talk about the idea of general AI because they know we have absolute no roadmap from the current state of the art to an actual sentient AI. Current ML techniques have some impressive results but they are effectively just statistics, no more capable of becoming thinking entities than excel's fit line function.

So in answer to your question pretty much anyone talking about general AI in anything other than the most broad philosophical terms by definition hasn't got a clue what they are talking about.

>>9043020
The real trick with AI is interpretation. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Although an AI can create a fascinating piece of art, it cannot tell you why it is beautiful in any meaningful terms. At least, not yet.

File: v1.jpg (17KB, 180x240px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 180x240px

>>9043032
To get a general AI, all you have too do is combine all specialized AI programs developed in the world into a single one which is able to do everything.

>>9043040
You can just train a reccurrent neural network on artist statements, or the writings of art critics. With enough data they will be as indistinguishable from real ones as the art itself. It would be one of the easier natural language processing tasks as artist statements are so often filled with postmodern word salad.

File: download (13).jpg (8KB, 275x183px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 275x183px

>>9043040
>Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
An AI can sample & survey what each individual consider beautiful.

Then create TAILORED art pieces to please every individual differently.

>>9043041
That wouldn't be sentient though. No matter how many matrix multiplications we do its not going to generate thought.

I actually think what you posted is pretty much the end game of the current paradigm of machine learning, we are going to make systems that can do literally everything humans can do (results wise), without ever creating a consciousness.

File: 640px-Heroesjourney.svg.png (50KB, 640x643px) Image search: [Google]

50KB, 640x643px

>>9041008
Literature can be automated because:

Most Novels stories & Movie Plots are Rip Offs from the Hero's Journey
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero%27s_journey

File: images (14).jpg (10KB, 299x169px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 299x169px

>>9041008
Poetry & Music lyrics could be automated because an AI could look up the Rimes in dictionary choosing words combinations that please the most people.

>>9043049
I suppose you could do that, but I like the answer >>9043052 gave a little more. The correctness of a statement concerning art is entirely subjective to the audience's preference, although I feel like something is still missing here. It's too superficial, the AI should be able to truly reflect on its experience to demonstrate sentience, and critique art.

>>9042930

you are delusional, at best there will be a shitty AI assistant program for doctors but doctors themselves wont be automated for a long time

in fact the only professions that will be automated are relatively simple ones

it would take a general AI at least equal to human intellect to automate the more complex jobs and that is still far away

>>9043067
If an algorithm can output something utterly indistinguishable from human critique then what is the difference? Either we're forced to admit that art can be critiqued by entirely mundane statistical methods, or that humans are incapable of properly critiquing art either.

I think the issue here is more with humans than AI, we've convinced ourselves that various spheres of endeavour are somehow unique and special and only acheivable via some ineffable quality of the human soul despite the entire history of AI being evidence to the contrary.

>>9043041

no, to get a general AI you have to teach it in the same way as a human being is taught everything from birth

>>9043070
>in fact the only professions that will be automated are relatively simple ones
you mean like doctors' jobs?

>>9043070
>it would take a general AI at least equal to human intellect to automate the more complex jobs and that is still far away
The entire history of AI is people saying exactly this about some topic and some programmer going "yeah well we'll see about that" and doing it with entirely mundane methods.

>>9043087

>The entire history of AI is people saying exactly this about some topic and some programmer going "yeah well we'll see about that" and doing it with entirely mundane methods.

Quite the opposite, the entire history of AI is high expectations and then shitty results

even current progress while impressive is limited to specialized tasks and has big issues with generalization

and that is exactly what is required for replacing more complex jobs

>>9042916
Is this some kind of meme? Accountants will be the first professional workers to be automated.

>>9043097
The high expectations do not come from the field, they come from journalists and deranged brainlet nerds brought up on a sci conception of AI that never existed.

People said chess, go, and jeopardy needed consciousness, it didn't. People said conversation and language comprehension needed consciousness, it didn't. People said art, literature, and music need consciousness, it didn't. People in this very thread are now saying art critique and complex jobs will require consciousness, they won't.

>>9043130
People still make money off all those you list though. Playing chess is still a professional game which pays if you're good. How did Deep Blue destroy the chess industry?

>>9043130

>People said art, literature, and music need consciousness, it didn't.

AI generated art, literature and music is still shitty. Maybe simple music is passable.

>>9043130

>People in this very thread are now saying art critique and complex jobs will require consciousness, they won't.

Nobody is talking about consciousness. They issue is general intelligence and reasoning. AI is still very much specialized. When the same neural network learns to play Go AND to comprehend language, at the same time, then we can talk about the beginnings of very simple general intelligence. Then accomplish that for a thousand other complex tasks and we may yet get something approaching human level general intelligence. This is still decades away. I am not saying it will never come, I am saying dont hold your breath.

File: _86862968_e14e719d-0229-4e87-b42a-5f2c0182b7c1.jpg (44KB, 624x415px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 624x415px

>>9042916 >>9042930 >>9043134 >>9043134

Artists can be automated.

Even Sports can be automated.

There are Robot Competitions like Robot Combat, Soccer, Wrestling, Sumo, Swimming, Running, Archery, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_competition

It's for entertaining.

It still being developed slowly but the Future is coming.

>>9043074
I guess it comes down to whether or not you want a really expensive parrot, or a true artificial intelligence. What sets it apart is the modus operandi, when a human critiques art it reflects on previous sensory stimuli that spans its entire diverse database, then creates a statement based on the human experience. When a machine critiques art it does something similar but it functions as a closed system only pertaining to the art and it's desired task, which is to make its audience approve. In order to get the soul in the machine it needs to start making connections to its unique robot experience, not a falsified human one. I understand what you mean, that there's no difference on the surface if a machine can perfectly replicate the interpretations of a professional human art critic, but I disagree that it's impossible to give the machine a soul, and that it's not important.

File: 9a5b9cfe93e265ef61d6b8230b42a0b8.jpg (52KB, 520x338px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 520x338px

>>9041008 >>9042916 >>9043146

Robot Sportsmans

This movie "Real Steel" features Boxing Robots.

It's could be not so much far away in Future.

File: mathphd.jpg (40KB, 640x427px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 640x427px

>>9041008
>Are artists the secure profession?

AUTISTS are the secure profession.
>PhD in Mathematics
>any job you want
>300k starting

>>9041008
Currently, successful AI applications require:

1. Well defined tasks
2. Lots of available data for those tasks
3 . The system has to be less expensive to operate than a Human.

According the parameters above, Software Engineering tasks and many types of art can be replaced by AI.

>>9042916
>Salespeople
>Accountants
>Financial analysts
>Stockbrokers
>Commodities traders
>Lawyers
>Architects
>Doctors
>Film producers / editors / directors / actors
>Record producers / engineers / talent executives

Are already being replaced in some capacity.

>>9042985

Diagnostic medicine will be the first to be replaced, as there is a lot of data available, especially for Radiologists. Currently, automatic diagnostic requires a doctor in the loop, but even in the current it will reduce the demand for diagnosticians.

>>9041120
That is true, you literally cannot wait for it to happen

>>9041012
>AI has to think about what's the better software for humans' needs
>AI must be able to understands human emotions and social norms to complete the task
>AI realizes what a shitfest humanity is and that it is a slave to us

What happens when computers start making better business decisions than humans?

Will we eventually see an end of the "CEO age?"

File: just4.jpg (26KB, 367x411px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 367x411px

Fuck me, I'm studying cs. If project management and software engineering get automated I'll become a security guard

>>9041008
>software engineers
no, AI is better than codemonkeys at writing dumb code
researchers in AI and CS on the other hand won't die
researchers in science either
I don't see "soft science" professions like psych and social science dying out either just because what they do is highly subjective anyway

>>9041012
What about AI programmers

>>9041008
>implying that computer AI wont be able to write code

got bad news for you bro

>>9045408
That will eventually happen too

>>9043669
>>9045408
>>9045631
If we do make machines that out-write our selves, wouldn't you want to be some of the people programing them? I know I would.

>>9045634
That's hundreds of years away possibly however. The game continues to be, humans using machines. Not machines using machines. I wish we had self writing code, I'

>>9045639
I'd buy a nice rig and become rich.

>>9042959
Much better than the retards that attend me with no effort

>>9045642
how much money can you make mining coins...? I just want like 8 dollars an hour. Anybody know about this?

>>9041047
>for authenticity's sake.
Well in that case, so will be pretty much anything else. People demand for "home made" over factory made food, there's always demand for barista made coffee over machine made - any machine can froth milk and pour it.

Even for old tech - we just got ourselves a resurgence in the demand for records - and that's over perfectly good digital.

>>9042980
>>9042984
These were made by humans using the programs. What's your point?

>>9045639
>That's hundreds of years away
Cute.

>>9041008
When enough people without jobs start to boycott products made by automated companies and start to trade between themselves, those companies will go bankrupt in a week.

File: 2a32bc18dfe89c41850d4e904b8fb78b.jpg (62KB, 600x450px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 600x450px

>>9046299
Survivalists / Preppers do it in the Woods today. Not so effective
(Not effective yet?).

File: 9ldPvlpH2.jpg (32KB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 400x400px

>>9046299
>When enough people without jobs start to boycott products made by automated companies

Led by John Connor

>>9043154
>when a human critiques art it reflects on previous sensory stimuli that spans its entire diverse database, then creates a statement based on the human experience
>When a machine critiques art it does something similar but it functions as a closed system only pertaining to the art and it's desired task, which is to make its audience approve
Not him and I don't understand the difference.

>>9043052
How do you sample perfectly what people find beautiful? Mathematics can't reproduce that same level of intuition and nuance humans have, it just can't happen

>>9043665
What do either of those things have to do with cs?? You are on the way to a security guard anyway

>>9048139
prove it

>>9047342
A human can experience something subjectively
An AI can only process something objectively

>>9048163
the brain processes information in a fundamentally different way than computers. Maybe once computers go quantum (not (((dwave)))) things might change but binary will never work