https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/ trackers/2017-06-01/trum

>>8949749
>non binding deal
>china allowed to increase emmisions until 2030
I'm wondering how could anyone be retarded enough to shill for this shitty deal.

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>>8949759

Paris is garbage. It basically punishes the West. While letting China and the undeveloped world to continue polluting. Also wants the West to pay billions and billions to the developing world. So they can skip carbon energy.

It would just make industry in China, SEAsia, India, Africa, and latin america more competitive. While the West is handicapped with exepensive energy and having to subsidize countries that are taking manufacturing and commodity production away.

>>8949765
>rich countries must help poor countries
This only reinforces what I said.

It's obvious that this deal is much harsher on developed countries, who are the only ones that innovate and come up with alternatives.

>>8949782
except it isn't harsh on China at all. Which burns as much coal as the rest of the world. burning it in old dirty inefficient plant designs. While also running a lot of diesel and petrol engines with worse emissions.

Western Eco-Weenies just keep letting China be Mordor. So cheap consumer goods don't go away and they can profit off of China's economy.

>>8949773
>>8949782

Back to /pol/ you cucks. The point of having poor countries have benefits is so that poor countries can get richer and rich countries poorer so that we can have equality. White countries have too much power and deserve to become shittier.

>>8949782
Are you implying that the counties in question are actually hard to fix their own shit? They just want to monopoly cheap energy.

>>8949759
China is a developing country and holds minimal responsibility for manmade climate change.

US and the europe are the ones to blame for this looming catastrophe.

>>8949759
Well if you are an idiotic liberal who knows nothing more than media buzzword garbage, or a suicidal liberal that is ok with dismantling the industries of the west, or one of those nutters that think doing uneconomic things is good for creating "jobs"

Then I guess you would support the Paris accord

>>8949812
>China is a developing country and holds minimal responsibility for manmade climate change.

HAHAHHAHA

>>8949812
So china can just go ahead to double or triple their emissions, while we need to dismantle our industries, increase our taxes, give trillions of our money to third world

ALSO while demographically replacing westerners

And thats the solution to "global warming"?

It's funny how people want to blame third world incompetence on "climate change" now, africans don't know how to farm, but the problem is climate change!

>>8949765
A deal that siphons back the wealth stolen by the colonial empires while also preserving the environment and making the world more equal?
Where do I sign?

>>8949825
>china is minimally responsible for man made climate change
>china is a developing country and needs to make more emissions

>>8949814
You should go back to your board

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>>8949817

EU and USA are polluting world since more than 100 years.

Plus, there is no border when it's air pollution.

>>8949836
CO2 is not air pollution
CO2 is air fertilization

This is why the globalists want to attack it

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>>8949842

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>>8949833
China is the world's largest economy.

>>8949836
Wouldn't gun powder generally be more pollutant, what country invented that again....

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If scientists would tell you an hurricane is going to hit your house tomorrow, you would evacuate as quickly as possible

But for some reason *cough*moneyinpolitics*cough* the standard is different when it comes to climate change

>>8949859
If a scientist was trying to predict a hurricane 10 years in advance, they would NEVER be right

>>8949859
I'm not against reducing emissions and other power sources.

It is the communist undertones in all the international climate change plans.

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>>8949773
>>8949798
>>8949825


Do you fucking mongols read anything about this situation besides this Bloomberg article?

>>>/pol/

Look at China's progress so far. They've been super aggressive. Just because Trump tells you that they aren't going to do anything by 2030, doesn't mean that that is true.

>>8949856
>gun powder
>guns
America

>>8949876
It actually would be pretty stupid for China not to do anything especially now that US has left Paris stuff.

>>8949825
They're actually going to make an effort to curb climate change, and look better on the world stage for doing it. America's just made itself out to be the retarded enemy of the world because they're too lazy to change.

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>>8949812
>China is a developing country
>holds minimal responsibility
Wew lad

>>8949885
Eastern european here.
Legit curious whats up with westerners and romanticizing that dystopian eastern shithole. Noble savage fetishism and self hatred?

>>8949889
We are going to Make America Great Again

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>/sci/ is infested with /pol/tards and doesn't even try to get rid of them

>>8949898
B-but their news agencies reported!!!!

>>8949919
>Anyone who disagrees with me is /pol/
Hey do you see anyone shitposting /pol/ memes here? Do you anyone posting pictures of Kek or Trump? I don't think so.

>>8949899
Because outside the coastal cities china becomes an absolute shit hole

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8grHpQAB1jA

Look at this shit

>>8949876
China is cheating emissions the same way the West did 20 years ago. By simply moving the worst polluting industry to cheaper and less regulated countries.

China is opening steel mills, heavy industry, and agriculture to Africa.

>>8949899
Some retards believe we're humongous paradise, but when actually we're depressed shit hole. I can 100% guarantee that if we had the same standards of living we would be like any other western country.

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>>8949924
>shows photograhic evidenced of mass pollution in China
>I-it's been fake
Lmao you are just as bad as flatfags

>>8949919
Literally all of 4chan has been infested. /lit/ and /his/ are just as bad. This is honestly getting out of hand. I'm getting too old for 4chan anyway, so if things keep going I'll probably just stop browsing.

>>8949749
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Agreement#Content

The aim of the convention is described in Article 2, "enhancing the implementation" of the UNFCCC through:[11]

"(a) Holding the increase in the global average temperature to well below 2°C above pre-industrial levels and to pursue efforts to limit the temperature increase to 1.5°C above pre-industrial levels, recognizing that this would significantly reduce the risks and impacts of climate change;
(b) Increasing the ability to adapt to the adverse impacts of climate change and foster climate resilience and low greenhouse gas emissions development, in a manner that does not threaten food production;
(c) Making finance flows consistent with a pathway towards low greenhouse gas emissions and climate-resilient development."

>vague unrealistic shit is really vague unrealistic shit

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It's over

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>>8949765
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

*takes deep breath*

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

*takes time to recover*

Wait, let me get this stra-

>burden sharing

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>8949749
Good on Trump following through on it. That deal was fucking worthless anyways. Was literally just making western europe and the us subsidize the 3rd world while they do nothing.

>>8949919
/sci/ doesn't try because there's no point. I used to argue with them a few months back but they never learn, now I just let them shitpost in these containment threads and move past them without a second thought. You have to treat them like a child throwing a tantrum, ignore them and let them think they're right. If you shout at them or punish them, it just makes them more rabid.

These threads don't represent what the average /sci/ poster believes, that's my point.

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>>8949993

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ahead-of-trump-decision-china-says-it-will-stick-to-paris-climate-deal

>>8950003
>china says it will stick to deal

So they're sticking to the plan of doing nothing till 2030. How nice of them...

>>8949876
>Look at China's progress so far.
Yeah, nothing as progressive as designing baby clothes with slits so your kid can easily shit in a public trash bin.

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>>8949963
in other news, numerous competitors have petitioned Trump for a position on his councils to replace the corporate welfare leech

>>8949812
t. Yao Ming

>>8950003

China is already moving to make deals with Europe on the heels of Trumps disastrous tour

>>8950089
China was about to overtake the USA long before Trump.

The eternal gook must be stopped at all costs.

>>8950089
>be good boy humanitarians that love all things good and rainbow-y
>hate the usa
>love china
This has to be a meme it can't possibly be real.

>>8950099
Nobody loves China. But the fact is that they're staring down the barrel of a potential crisis if the temperature keeps rising. Rice has an optimum temperature at which its yield is highest. Most of China is already beyond that temperature. Every degree the temperature continues to rise, their food production declines. Southern China is eventually going to reach a point where rice simply can't germinate at all. That means food prices in China are going to rise to levels that will lead to a civil war.

Remember, the people of China tolerate the ruling party for two reasons: 1.) They have thus far kept the nation prosperous. 2.) Defiance risks death. If food prices rise enough that large numbers begin to starve, those two reasons no longer apply. The nation is no longer prosperous, and you're already risking death from starvation so there is no reason to continue tolerating the ruling party. That gets you a civil war.

The ruling party in China knows this and it terrifies them. That is why they're willing to entertain the idea of cutting emissions, and why, on this particular issue, Europe sees them as a potential partner. Because, unlike the US, China sees climate change as a real threat.

>>8950099
china is communist
thats a good thing to these people

>>8950137
>China
>communist
Pick one.

>>8950137
No one who knows anything about China thinks that China is communist.

>China and India, the two biggest polluters are exempt from having to do anything, but still get cash payouts from other countries
I have no idea why someone would think this is a scam.

>>8950147
Even better then.

>>8950064
This. Non of you climate niggers ITT have tried to defend this deal.

>b..b.but muh science deniers
>muh drumf

Why should the west cuck it's economy and sigh a BAD deal??

>>8950188
At the end of the day they hate the west, they hate their people, and they largely hate themselves

>>8950135
>The ruling party in China knows this and it terrifies them.
Or perhaps the simpler reason is that even if China ends up starting to cut emissions in 13 years, they can reduce CO2 output dramatically by passing simple Clean Air laws like any other civilized nation, and declare victory.

This whole thing reeks of communism and hatred for the US

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47bNzLj5E_Q

>trillions of dollars to reduce the global temperature by 0.167 degrees Celsius

Why don't they just spend like 3 trillion dollars building nuclear plants all over the world?

>>8950204
If the Paris agreement actually reduces temperature, that's a spectacular success. Right now, slowing or halting the increase of temperature is the goal. There's very little chance of actually reducing it, only stabilizing at a level where we won't end up with runaway warming.

>>8950214
sorry, I guess I phrased that wrong- it'll reduce the climate models 2100 target, not reduce the temperature. Basically it pushes the model back by a grand total of 8 months.

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>>8950204

It's not only about temperature, it's about pollution, biodiversity and human health too !

China and India, the worlds two biggest polluters signed it. They are exempt from paying into the "pool" or from having to actually do anything, hell they can even INCREASE their emissions. All while collecting fat stacks from everyone else who signed up and isn't listed as "developing".

Somehow people don't see this as a shitty deal and demand a better way of doing things.

>>8949831

>stolen

lmao

>>8949812
>China should focus on economic development, building old, inefficient coal plants so that by 2030 they can dismantle all of that and focus on reducing emissions.
Am I reading that correctly? The non-idiotic answer is that China should start building renewable power infrastructure NOW. But the Paris Agreement is a cuck document drafted by cucks, so of course the primary purpose is virtue-signaling, nevermind the totally unrealistic 25% reduction in CO2 by 2030.

>>8949842
What are you on about?

>>8950248
> cuck cuck virtue-signaling cuck

>>8950135
China also has a long, long history of peasant revolts (that actually succeeded) following bad harvests.

>>8950135
If this is true, shouldn't China also agree to some immediate carbon output reductions?

>>8950292
Their ruling party stuck in a bind. If they immediately, drastically reduce GHG output and no one else does, then they are both at an economic disadvantage AND are stuck with the consequences of temperature increases as well. Their government's legitimacy stems from its ability to keep the economy moving. That is why the people of China accept it, for now at least. But if that changes, you get rebellion. So if they act but no one else does, their chances of being overthrown are even higher than if they don't act. The best outcome is if everyone acts together, but the US thinks that climate change is a hoax so that's not in the cards anymore. It's basically the prisoner's dilemma, only now they know that the other party is going to cheat.

>>8950300
>China, renoun for cheating and not giving a shit about the welfare of its people or the environment would have certainly changed their century old ways had the US just played ball and given them free money.
ok

>>8950308
Plenty of smart people from China are leaving over air pollution problem, and the CPC knows that it could face a peasant rebellion if there is a famine or if things get too shitty. This has happened many times in Chinese history, they are not idiots.

>>8950308
The change won't be because they give a damn about their people. It will stem from the fact that the ruling party wants to remain in power, and that power is threatened by increasing temperatures. It's a completely self-serving calculation. The wealthy elite that rule China don't want to be toppled, dragged out into the street, and shot.

>>8949994
>These threads don't represent what the average /sci/ poster believes
t. I forgot that 4chan is an anonymous website and that it is impossible to know who you are actually talking to, thus there is no fucking /sci/ consensus or culture
How fucking dumb are you? Is there some extension I missed that tells you if a person you are talking to is a /pol/ack bogeyman or what? It is more likely that the autists on this website browse multiple fucking boards, because people have multiple fucking interests.
And don't even start on "containment threads" and how you go to "more intelligent" threads. Yeah, as if 0.999999 = 1 threads are any better than this

>>8950300
>The best outcome is if everyone acts together
I agree, but if an agreement results in one party gaining a net advantage over another, it is predictable that the net loser would not support it. There surely exists a point of compromise which results in the net trade advantage China gains equals the savings from slowing climate change, but I doubt this is with China making zero cuts in carbon output.

>>8950143
No communist country that has ever existed is actually communist

>>8950322
being equal to*

>>8950322
> it is predictable that the net loser would not support it.
In this case, not really, because even a relative loss would leave the US in a better position than doing nothing at all.

Increasing global temperatures will create a massive refugee crisis that will make the current one seem small. Once the tropics are no longer capable of producing their own food, what do you think those people will do? Sit there and starve? No. They'll head north. Not just from the Middle East and North Africa, but India and China as well. You think illegal immigration from Latin America is bad now? Imagine what it will be like when the millions of people still in Latin America begin to move. We're talking hundreds of millions. No wall is going to be able to hold that back.

To avoid all this, collective action is required. Yes, some nations will benefit more than others from averting further temperature increases. But it is better than the alternative for every party involved.

>>8950344
Those regions don't even produce their own food to begin with
and construction of hydroponic greenhouse farms is more than possible, if the natives were smart enough to actually fucking maintain the things

We can also start up space industry like we should have decades ago, and make solar shades to block some of the useless infrared radiation from the sun, cooling the earth based on how much percent we block
Too cool? Solar mirrors to focus more light in to bring the temperature of an area up
this would allow us to not only negate all the effects of climate change, but with some geoengineering on top of it, start massively altering the earth itself

Turn the Sahara desert into a jungle that rivals the amazon, turn the arctic into a warm sunny beach resort, and anything else we desire

we do not at all need to kneecap industry because of africans, when there are significantly better ways of solving the problem, that have huge benefits as a bonus

>>8950344
>leave the US in a better position than doing nothing at all
That would be net gain, anon. You may notice that I stipulated that one party would not support a deal if it were a net loser.
I mean to say, if you were to find the real cost savings from slowing climate change and subtract the cost of cutting emissions here and the increase in trade deficit, that woupd be the net cost of slowing climate change by cutting emissions. For such an agreement to work, nations must have a similar net cost, relative to GDP. If China, gor example, were not required to cut emissions, it would: reap the same relative benefit of a reduced rate of climate change, not incurr the same level of cost of cutting emissions, and gain a trade advantage. The United States would reap those relative benefits, but would also face a worsening trade deficit and would face reduced economic output from reducing emissions.

>>8950137
>china is communist
topkek

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>>8949812
>>8949836
>>8949876
>>8949919
50 centers going all out. China should be confronted about its emmisions right now, not in 2030 or some future memedate like the libshit's favourite 2050. Runaway temperature rise won't give you any "waiting periods". You can't have Europe and North America get crippled by eco-taxes and regulations while disgusting subhuman chinks commission their 1,000th coal plant for the year, basically annulling all effort. Trump should've confronted the chinks, instead pulling back into retarded diplomatic isolationism with the problems persisting. The planet can't handle 100 years of "developing nations" aka useless fucking low-IQ retards find their way to post-industrial society.
>b-b-but it's not fair for the shitskins we must be tolerant
Global warming doesn't give a shit what's fair, faggot. It's either all-out or nothing. After all, droughts, rising sea levels and increasingly chaotic weather will hit the poorfags of Africa, SEA and South America the most.

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>>8950073
what a remarkably irrelevant point. Nice contribution to the conversation, fag.

>>8950311
AIR POLLUTION is not CO2

>>8950326
>megacorporations (like Foxconn) abusing workers are in bed with government
China sure is communist alright!
Definitelly not the opposite of communism, no.

>>8949782
>It's obvious that this deal is much harsher on developed countries, who are the only ones that innovate and come up with alternatives.

Do yourself a favor and go read about the about of subsidies the Chinese government is providing to develop green energy

>>8949805
>let's handicap human progress on the altar of egalitarianism

t. commie fag

>>8949749
>still believes vaccines cause autism

Trump is probably the dumbest president yet.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/robert-f-kennedy-jr-trump-vaccine-safety-commission-235058

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>>8949749
oh shit, Trump backed out of the Paris Accord? guess everyone can just take off their catalytic converters and start dumping carcinogens into the waterways because he just completely undermined all the standards the US has in terms of environmental standards. oh wait, it doesn't mean that at all...

kys you retarded cucks. leaving the Paris Accord doesn't mean shit in terms of removing current environmental policy. its symbolic gesture and nothing more.

>>8949831
You can sign your death certificate, marxist.

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>Backs out of it because it appeared to not benefit the US as much as other developed countries
>Openly said in the speech we was willing to renegotiate for a better compromise
>Articles are leaving it out or breezing over this
>had to explain this to everyone so much today so sick of it

>>8950645
Apparently the money the U.S. would have to put down on the deal was goodwill money which means they could just not give the money. The deal is also non binding. Not taking part in it is just for show/ personal beliefs. The same could be said for taking part in the deal.

>>8950627
It means the US isn't going to do anything about climate change, even small stuff, which means that we're pretty much guaranteed to see runaway warming.

>>8949749
fake news

>>8950688
>It means the US isn't going to do anything about climate change

no, thats not what it means.

the Paris Accord has no bearing on what the US does internally to curb CO2 emissions. CAFE standards for cars aren't going anywhere and neither are the subsidies for renewables.

the primary purpose of the Paris Accord was to give money to developing nations as a reward for not being CO2 spewing fucks.

>>8949919
obsessed.

>>8950733
> CAFE standards for cars aren't going anywhere
Automobile standards have been targeted by Trump for removal.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-autos-idUSKBN16M2C5

The US isn't going to be trying to curb GHG emissions anymore. The republicans have made that clear.

>>8950733
>the globalist bankers strike again!

>>8950755
>targeted by
yeah, and he wanted to build a wall and pull out of NATO.

the man only has so much time and political capital. this paris accord thing was an easy move because it could be done executively without any approval from congress or the senate.

>>8949749
Le weedman Trudeau pulled out a week ago and only went back in like 2 weeks ago kekekeke

>>8950771
1.) He can basically gut enforcement of those regulations on his own.
2.) Congress does want to back him up on that. Removing environmental regulation on industry is one of the things that Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell are eager to do.

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>>8950779
That's not true.

In fact, the only countries outside of the agreement are Nicaragua and Syria. oh, and the United States Of America

>>8950784
just because he guts enforcement doesn't mean the laws aren't still on the books. he has another 7 years max and no company is going to gamble on getting their dick slammed in the door by the next WHO that will enforce, with back fines to boot. especially after what happened to VW.

>Removing environmental regulation on industry is one of the things that Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell are eager to do.

they also wanted to destroy Obamacare, but that shit ain't happening either.

>>8950645
Welcome to propaganda
they've been directly and specifically paid to flood the airwaves with anti-trump garbage, and that they shall do, and never stop doing

>>8950803
The next administration in the white house will be a republican. Control of most of the state governments AND the federal judiciary means that the republicans will be able to simply remove those that might vote against them from the voter rolls, shut down polling places in areas where they might lose, and require forms of ID chosen specifically by what their supporters are most likely to have. They've already tried to do this, and the only thing that had been stopping them were the courts. Once the judiciary is filled with republicans, they won't have to deal with that any more.

Regardless of what happens, the next president will be a republican.

> they also wanted to destroy Obamacare, but that shit ain't happening either.
All they need to do is withhold funds that are supposed to go to shore up state exchanges. The entire thing will implode as premiums skyrocket and people just leave the health insurance market altogether. Combined with the IRS no longer enforcing the mandate, Obamacare would be dead for all practical purposes.

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>West has to pay for Green Tech for India and China

>The stagnant economies have to give free money to Asian dynamos who can easily afford it themselves

Fuck em. If they want keep the ice sheets and keep their Asian coastal cities afloat, they better pay for their own shit. Shame of them for using Paris Accord for BRICS money laundering scheme.

>>8949812
>Ching chong ding dong

China has $800B trade surplus, They can afford green technology easily.

>>8949812
>China is a developing country

china is above and beyond USA in terms of development. it might be the most developed country on the planet

>>8950815
>being this tinfoil
nigga has the last hundred or so days shown you nothing?

our system of checks and balances works. all the dumb shit Trump said he was going to do got shot the fuck down. he's going to spend the next 3 years playing golf at mara lago and MAYBE getting some tax changes and slight tweaks to obamacare pushed through. anything that is not within his direct executive purvue is going to be like slogging through tar for him. you sound just as delusional as the "le god emperor trump" retards who think he is the second coming of jesus or something. he isn't that powerful and the republicans don't have as much juice as you think they do. "juice" being not only the authority to carry out legislation but the will to do so.

you can suppose in woulda-coulda-shoulda's all day long, but the fact remains that so far, Trump is lame duck as fuck. as long as he doesn't do anything to tank the booming economy we have or get us involved in some asinine ground war, he will probably get re-elected.

>>8949889
>going to
UH HUH

>>8950240
It literally was stolen though. You're just racist and a moron

>>8950933
?
Activist judges doing blatantly bullshit rulings is not the "system of checks and balances"
The balance would be impeachment of these judges.

The health care bill is being past
There is a LOT within his executive pervue
The republicans have a hope to gain a super majority in 2018, which would allow them to pass things like national conceal carry laws & national voter ID laws

Every day the democrats show how insane they are, both their base & their leadership.

His new 2018 spending bill WILL be passed too, the old guard of neo-con traitors need to be purged out of the Republican party.

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>>8949812

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>>8950933
>genuinely seditious activist judges
>checks and balances
it's ideological self masturbation in full violation of their station

I should learn to not respond to bait, but I cannot resist
were the rule of law still in place, those judges would be publicly executed

>>8949782
How the fuck else would it work? You think Brazil is just going to stop chopping down the rainforest out of the goodness of their hearts?

>>8950458
No matter how many times you say it, it's still not true.

>>8950933
Right now the judiciary is stopping Trump because there are still people there who were appointed by Obama, Bush, and Clinton. That will change as the years pass. There are a huge number of vacancies in the federal judiciary that have been building up over the years since there was only a brief window between the democrats changing the filibuster rules and them losing the senate in which they could actually appoint judges. Now, all of those vacancies can be filled, swinging the courts heavily in Trump's favor as more federal judges get appointed.

Congress has no interest in challenging Trump considering that his supporters are the people they rely on to win their primaries.

Combined with total control of most of the state governments, republicans will finally be able to get the voting restrictions that the courts had blocked up until now. Once that is done, the republicans will have a guaranteed hold on the white house.

>>8950204

Why don't they just spend like 1 billion dollars developing a virus that wipes out 90% of the human population?

>>8949855
>>8950916
Not per capita. Not even close.

>>8949759
>>8949773
>>8949798
>>8949817
>>8949825
>>8949833
>>8950073
>>8950148
>>8950231
>>8950402


From 2013:
China emits less CO2 per capita than Ireland. India emits less CO2 per capita than Costa Rica.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.CO2E.PC?end=2013&start=1960&year_high_desc=true

>>8950819
I don't think you know what a trade surplus really means. But as other people in this thread have pointed out, China is transitioning hard to green energy to combat city smog and solar panel production (probably because of all that lithium and silicon mining they can do).

>>8951035
>per capita
that's not how you calculate emissions. if you want to do it then count the number of factories, not how many people fart

>>8951035
>China emits less CO2 per capita
>per capita
Yes, I am sure the atmosphere makes a fair and balanced distinction between gross CO2 emitted into the atmosphere and CO2 per capita. Once it realizes that the massive quantities of pollutants being put into it by China are in fact peanuts per head, Warming will grind to a halt.

>>8950319
It is not threatened by rising temperatures. At least not within the lifetime of currently-alive politicians.

>>8949859
because the rate of change will be so slow it won't even be noticeable. People already blame climate change for stuff they can't possibly link it to. It was getting warmer without us anyway. Somehow these people are implying that we can actually stop climate change.

>>8951231
China is all about dynasties. To someone in power in China, their children are a way of extending their power and influence beyond their own lifetimes. A threat to their dynasty's rule is a threat to them, even if they're dead before it occurs.

>>8951130
If we're going to talk about "fairness", it makes sense to talk about how many people a state has to support. I agree with you that we should be taking pollution by the horns more severely than we are, but in any carbon-reduction agreement, developing countries (especially those of extraordinary populations - China and India) should face less extreme measures than developed countries.

>>8951035
>china is transitioning to green energy
Yet their emissions are increasing every year.

Its pathetic how you liberals keep falling for the propaganda of an authoritarian regime.

>>8951366
>liberals
Those are 50 cent-ers.

>>8951281
>should face less extreme measures
Yeah, the atmosphere will just wait another 50-100 years for them to "develope" i.e. build ghost cities and low-quality infrastructure to keep up thet GDP growth. :^)))))

Stockholm syndrome. Donald Trump can rape and murder your family but you'd find a way to justify his actions. Fucking useless sheeple.

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>>8949749
Wtf, I love Drumpf now.

>>8952099
>+25%
I'll take it. Liberals can drown in their tears.

/sci/ - Constant Climate Change Circlejerk

>>8952091
+25% agri is more than justified.

>>8950099
americans are beyond retarded, nobody likes your brown lardasses stupid nigger

>>8950148
biggest polluter is america, probably related to the high production of methane emanating from your landwhale """women"""

Americans really wanted to prove that they're the most retarded people on the planet.

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>>8952099
Idk, India and USA (Australia too) seem to have very good reason to contain it.

Besides it's not just crop yields that are a problem.
5% gain isn't much

By the way ON YOUR PICTURE it says
>"The science however, is far from certain on the benefits of carbon fertilisation."
And then it says
>This map represents the case of beneficial carbon fertilisation processes.
Anyways this is the cited report:
>https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2008/03/pdf/cline.pdf
And this is how the map looks without carbon fertilization.

Other than crop yields, we have the ocean, whether patterns, sea level rise, water supply etc.

Anyways, by the 2080's the world will be a much different place so we'll see.

>>8951366
I'm not saying it's altruistic on China. They have a lot to gain from a shift to renewables.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/05/china-renewables-energy-climate-change-pollution-environment/

>>8951494
You are deliberately misunderstanding my point, right? We can slow their development, but we have to slow ours more since they have 1 billion people and a low GDP per capita.
This is like saying that because we have a progressive tax system, tax cuts won't be effective. Of course that's not true, we just scale appropriately so that the tax cut is effective and fair.

>>8952099
lul say goodbye to crop diversity

>>8952099
Ok, that California number is wrong, which is to be expected since the study in your picture is a little dated.
https://www.skepticalscience.com/new-study-undercuts-co2-plants-myth.html

>>8952139
>get rid of an agreement that has never been ratified and which does not even have any tangible effect on the global climate
>liberals reee

>>8952140
>Russia and Siberia
>canada

>losing fertility due to more carbon

>>8952196
Don't breed

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>average climatard

>>8949919
>Everyone I disagree with is /pol/.
>We need to try to get rid of /pol/.
>We need to try to get rid of everyone I disagree with.

You are like a little baby.

>>8952209
no chance he will

>>8952207
Is Trump a president for the US or for Russia?

The evidence suggests it's Russia.

>>8952210
nice fake news

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>>8952210
Jesus Christ this isn't real is it? Am I fucking dreaming?

>>8952224
are you retarded?

>>8952210
This tweet doesn't exist

I suggest you make a fake liberal twitter and post stupid strawman shit from it.

It apparently works on some people >>8952224

>>8952210
Meanwhile over at fox:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUeybwTMeWo

>>8952226
>>8952230
I don't have or pay attention to twitter for the same reason I don't actively seek ways to give myself cancer or STDs.

>>8952236
>redditor
>i don't want to give myself cancer
motherfucker you are cancer

>>8951035
>China emits less CO2 per capita than Ireland
Yeah, what these guys said
>>8951094
>>8951130
Also, if you have ever been to China, you would know just how useless "emissions per capita" is as a metric. The air there is horrendous. You can't even see two blocks down the street in the cities. It makes you gag.

>>8952099
>my move to Canada looking better every day

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>>8952224
I don't know.
Are you dreaming?

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>>8952140
>without carbon fertilizatio
Why not?

>sea level rise
Nope, pic related.

Honestly, ocean aciification and chaotic weather are going to be the main problems for non-shithole countries in the mid-to-late XXIc.

>>8952242
Bad air is one thing and hurts the population. Heavy coal burnoff, though terrible for human health, does not contribute much more significantly to climate change than baseline CO2. If you want to talk about how China basically poisons its people with low regulation coal burning, sure. But as a contributor to climate change? You have to look at baseline CO2.

+25% AGRI
2
5
%

A
G
R
I

>>8952284
Because it's not clear what the impact will be.
An example>>8952185

Also the warming won't magically stop in 2080 or 2100 or 2200 because CO2 stays there for a very very long time. Don't forget that. And that's part of the sea level rise.
Large parts of Europe will have to go underwater eventually if the warming is above 2 degrees, since Greenland will start melting (100-200 years). Part of the reason the 2 degree was chosen was to avoid Greenland melting.
But this is just sea level.

Anyways, I don't really know if China and India will be shithole countries in 2080 - they could just import food from Russia and survive easily.

The point is there is no reason to not reduce emissions when we have so much to lose in terms of economic trouble. This is especially true for the US, but I guess Trump isn't president of the US but of Canada.

ps
I don't think you fully understand what ocean acidification is and what impact it can have if we just pump CO2 without consideration.

>>8952532
Oh, and to add afaik if we don't cut emissions 3-4 degrees is the likely number.

>>8952536
>>8952532
Besides, it's not like the already developed countries hold all the cards.

An undeveloped Nigeria can send aerosols up in the atmosphere just as well, it's not that expensive and it doesn't require a significant infrastructure.

>>8952532
>Large parts of Europe will have to go underwater eventually
Stopped reading right there. Greenland, even in the worst case scenario, would melt for several centuries or even a millenium. And even if it melts completely in 26XX-27XX, it could only rise the sea level by 7 meters (~1m per century). Keep in mind that the climate change church preaches it will be only 5m btw. And if humanity hasn't become an interstellar species by that time, we better die in shit for being brainlets anyways.

>>8949759
Which deal are you faggots talking about.
The paris agreement was literally just a goal for limiting temperature growth. What is he going renegotiate? A lower temperature reduction target?

>Heavy coal burnoff, though terrible for human health, does not contribute much more significantly to climate change than baseline CO2
Burning any hudrocarbon contributes toward the greenhouse effect. Carbon dioxide is opaque to infrared radiation. The science is incredibly simple.

The shiling is strong on this board.

>>8952553
>only 5m btw
>only
Are you ok

Depends on the actual warming. Depends on how West Antarctica turns out. Plus they don't have to melt entirely for sea levels to start causing problems.

>And if humanity hasn't become an interstellar species by that time, we better die in shit for being brainlets anyways.
Not really.

Anyways, is Trump the president of Europe or Canada

>>8950135
The US does see climate change as a real threat but their response is going to be military action. The pentagon has been making it's long range forecasts and preparations for the coming decades with the idea in mind that coastal flooding is going to occur. They've been spending billions to protect their infrastructure from getting swamped and have an eye on regions where sea level rise could lead to the outbreak of conflicts and refugee crisis. There are also plans in place to deal with water shortages in the US.

Basically the intelligence and military leadership know there is no willpower or consensus to actually tackle the causes of climate change so they are simply going to prepare to deal with the consequences.

>>8952568
What do you reckon is their solution to the south rising again in 2080.>>8952099

>>8952565
>Not really
Um, yeah, really. What's the point of living as a earthbound species of plebs on an out-of-resources Earth and live in some super minimalist pleb shit NWO off hippie veganism and meme solar power. If strong AI doesn't take the wheel in the XXII-XXIIIc. it's game over.

>start causing problems
You talk as if 1-2m in the next century would cause some type of catastrophic apocalypse. People will move inland, coastal homolopolises will have to build some minimal dikes like in Holland, the economy will stagnate, food will become ~10-20% more expensive but in the end, the normal non-shithole dweller will, for the most part, lead a very similar life as now.
>but muh supr speshul species of bugs en frogs en fish en shiet will die off
>but muh vegetation
If the GMO plants providing food can survive, it literally doesn't matter if the equatorial forests, the tundra or fauna get fucked.

>>8952590
Ok, dream on.

Is Trump the president of Europe or Canada I ask - you avoided to answer.

Even the only possibly positive outcome of CO2 doesn't really apply to the US.

>>8952598
>Is Trump the president of Europe or Canada
Obviously not. As it looks now, he's not the president of several states either.

Hearing a lot about how China is going to electric cars and how wonderful this is, but my question is what is going to be the source of energy to provide power to all these electric cars? Its not going to be a green solution if all they do is use coal or gas burning power plants to generate the electricity.Nor is building nuclear power plants, especially given the Chinese track record on caring for the environment.

>>8952603
China is actually planning a massive expansion of their nuclear energy capacity. I'm no expert on Chinese energy policy but if I had to guess they're probably planning on shifting to nuclear as their majority source of energy production as it's effectively the only viable source to supplant coal entirely in areas where hydroelectric isn't available or sufficient to meet demand.

>>8949765

Yup, pretty much what I thought. Its mostly Gimmedats. To be spent by corrupt officials in recipient countries to line their own pockets.

Of course all this will be overseen by an administration of highly paid bureaucrats, all of whom are strongly in favor of the climate agreement and living on their multi-million dollar per year salaries for life.

Fuck this. Fuck them. Trump did the right thing.

how many liberals are actually willing to admit that China is far more responsible for air pollution than all of the US and western Europe combined?

>>8950003

Anything China agrees to do can only mean one thing. Its good for them.

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>>8950619
>implying they don't

here, take the redpill: https://youtu.be/CZgm7rkdZQc

>>>/pol/126337197

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slWX6MkwpE4

>implying this bill wasn't a massive con by BRICS to siphon money out of western Europe and North America

>>8949812
Chinese carbon emissions are more than the united states and entire european union combined, and that was in 2012.
http://www.belfercenter.org/publication/chinas-carbon-emissions-report-2015

>>8949812
http://www.zmescience.com/ecology/environmental-issues/about-29-of-san-franciscos-pollution-comes-from-china-42334/
Almost 30% of the smog on the west coast comes from china.

>>8952717
literally explained by a better understanding of autism leading to more diagnoses

>>8949872
>It is the communist undertones
>undertones
It's pretty damn overt

>>8949948
>I'm getting too old for 4chan anyway
Too bad for you that everywhere else on the internet is just a lesser version of 4chan now.
You will get the same outlandish hyperbole everywhere else just with extra censorship.

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>>8949963

>>8950459
>Definitelly not the opposite of communism, no.
Well since real communism can't exist...

>>8950204
>trillions of dollars to reduce the global temperature by 0.167 degrees Celsius

no, it's to keep the rise of temperature to 2 degress by 2100, and no higher

>>8949963
he tried

>>8952717
>internet causes autism
He may be on to something with that

>>8952798
what the heck was he even trying to convey here
what would elon musk flying on jet blue accomplish?

>>8952828
it's retarded republic propaganda. it works if you're retarded

>>8952828
he was trying to convey that he is just a slimy politician

>>8952828
>>8952835
>>8952844

the meme comes from the hypocrisy of billionaires flying their private jets around the world while telling other people to take public transportation to reduce CO2 emissions

>>8949765
So it's even shittier then I thought
america is right again
Good post

>>8952848
wow, that's such a bizarre thought process

>>8952860
>Using your private method of travel to tell everyone else to stop using private methods of travel
I don't see how it's "bazarre" to think that's hypocrisy

>>8952865
not him, but it's obviously stupid

elon has done a lot to advocate action on climate change and his jet is not at all responsible for the warming

our cumulative use of fossil fuels and policy is what's the real problem - him having a jet doesn't mean he's not right that climate change is real and all the other things he said in his tweet

ted cruz did not respond to his tweet at all

>>8951281
>I agree with you that we should be taking pollution by the horns more severely than we are, but in any carbon-reduction agreement, developing countries (especially those of extraordinary populations - China and India) should face less extreme measures than developed countries.

Not to the point where "developing nations," which I assure you China will continue to push that label on themselves for as long as they can get away with, can actively INCREASE their ability to pollute with impunity.

>>8952872
IDK man 13 years to become a developed nation seem fair to me

at least in the case of china, for india that's probably too little

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At least France is now opening to scientists

> inb4 French grant money

https://archive.is/TAH2e

>“To all scientists, engineers, entrepreneurs, responsible citizens who were disappointed by the decision of the president of the United States, I want to say that they will find in France a second homeland,” he continued.

>“I call on them: come and work here with us. To work together on concrete solutions for our climate, our environment. I can assure you, France will not give up the fight.”

>>8952865
it doesn't make sense
normal people take commercial planes because they have no other option if they want to fly somewhere

on top of that, a billionaire can spend money to plant trees or other such things and make up for the carbon footprint of himself and his entire family

on top of that, elon musk specifically invests millions of dollars in green energy tech
it's just such a ridiculous statement

>>8952872
There should be a 3rd tier between developing and developed nation that fits the BRICS nations. Maybe even include Nigeria in there with their booming population.

I don't think we should have stayed within the agreement as originally written, but it's fucking stupid investing money into shitty ass, situational solar/wind technology and not just building nuclear reactors all over the world.

>>8952875
South Korea didn't need that long and they developed after a much more destructive war.

I think the real concern is that China doesn't just export all of its pollution to Africa like the west exported their polluting manufacturing to China.

>>8952828
I believe the message is something like :
There is a part on the Paris agreement about rich countries needing to lead the way.
Following this precept on an individual scale would seem to be the minimum requirement to not pass as an hypocrite.

>>8952879
Too bad there is no research left in France thx to Sarkozy.

>>8952879
Where do I apply?
Do you think they can use computer scientists?

>>8949919
maths captchas are the only way. if you disagree youre either /pol/ or a brainlet.

>>8952886
South Korea benefitted from U.S. money and investment, small land size, and has less than 1/20th of China's population.
>>8952872
If you believe that China should have to decrease their emissions, then you're suggesting that the most developed countries (in accordance with fairness) should live with drastically less production capacity. Like, we would be shuttering most rural power plants in the U.S. in that case.
We need to remember that China literally contains 1/7th of the ENTIRE population of the world. India contains that other 1/7th.

>>8952990
>when the border control policies kick in
das it mane

>>8950379
>those regions don't even grow their own food

Kek m8 stopped reading there you're Fucking delusional

>>8952870
>>8952882
>this actual amount of double-think
i'll be sure to use this argument as i drive my Hummer to my private, fosil-fuel-burning jet while tweeting about the horrors of climate change and what the tax-payer needs to do to stop it

>>8950135
>1.) They have thus far kept the nation prosperous.
laughed so hard MtnDew™ came out my nostrils

>>8953471
Oh! You also invest millions into green tech? Good on ya!

>>8952717
>2017
>Autism is now 1/1

No wonder fidget spinners are so popular.

>>8953515
no, but i don't have a performative contradiction between my beliefs and actions
faggot

>>8953027
>implying I find anything wrong with border control policies

>>8953763
>implying I do either
Math captchas would be a great way to keep out most of the /pol/acks

>>8949765
Holy shit, the ""Accord"" is nothing but quite that, an accord

ac·cord
əˈkôrd/
verb
verb: accord; 3rd person present: accords; past tense: accorded; past participle: accorded; gerund or present participle: according
1.
give or grant someone (power, status, or recognition).


Literally, gibs me dat ya honkey to lazy nations

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>>8949831
How about signing this free helicopter ride waiver my fellow bashthefash? :^)

>>8953732
Yeah... actions like investing millions into renewable energy...

You still don't get it. Musk is using fossile fuels that would've been spent anyway, which are cancelled out anyway by his investment into renewable energy.

Check out Tesla's concept for a solar-powered home. Fucking amazing.

>>8949765
Holy shit I never realized it was that bad

I wonder why are you all so cucked and stupid on /sci/

t. German PhD in applied math

>>8952893
Rich people take private flights since the amount of money they could move in the few hours they would wait at the airport could outweigh the increase in cost by using private flights. Musk switching to commercial flights would probably only be a symbolic move but not practically useful.


But if you want to talk about hypocrisy, politicians used private flights in their campaigns, including Cruz, and especially Trump.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/2016/02/02/candidates-flying-private-norm/79699978/

And funny how Cruz never ever commented on the the hypocrisy and financial frivolousness when those million dollar missiles were launched at Syria to do no damage, just to name one instance out of many where the current president decided to be a hypocrite.

>>8955782
Solar power is a meme, nothing more. The resources needed to manufacture the panels are worse than just generating the energy with coal.

>>8950522
what he described has absolutely fuckall to do with egalitarianism

>>8956067
Except that is basically how it always plays out in practice. Whenever someone says they support egalitarianism, what they're actually saying is they want free gibs for the people who are the least productive, and handicaps for the people who are the most productive.

>>8956069
except he didn't say he supported egalitarianism, you retard

>>8955954
>hypocrisy and financial frivolousness when those million dollar missiles were launched at Syria
African children could've eaten those missiles!

>>8956069
I guess that why we jailed people and made them break rocks in quarries and build railroads for social parasitism and rewarded most productive members of of the given collective in the eastern bloc, while west was already handing out welfare full throttle.
#justcommiethings

>>8956078
No but they could have eaten the dollar bills they bought those missiles with

Read the Paris Accord and by the first page you can tell it's globalist bullshit.

>>8949773
China pollutes less than Ireland(literal who country).
What kind of brainlet are you? Holy shit

>>8952870
>elon has done a lot to advocate action on climate change and his jet is not at all responsible for the warming
And most of it non-sequitir. The only thing that will plausibly help is lots of nuclear, and I don't see him doing that. Instead, he's feeding the religious greens about their green fantasies and myths.

>>8956143
Nuclear power isn't allowed for non-western countries because it would be a bad thing if everyone had nuclear as America wouldn't be able to invade on a whim.