Trump’s budget calls for seismic disruption in medical and

>>8751947
yeah, its ugly

I know at least one professor of chemistry who relies heavily on NIH and NSF grants and who consistently votes Republican.

I hope he fucked himself over; of course I would feel bad for his students and post-docs.

This is a bit troubling. Pretty much every school doing biology research relies heavily on NIH grants. Why is he doing this?

>>8751947
time to trim some of the fat. a good chunk of the """research""" that gets funded should have never gotten any money to begin with.

>>8751971
>t. not actually a researcher

>>8751974
who are you quoting? what are you researching?

>>8751947

Good. Theres dozens of agencies and organizations made just to siphon money and its time that basically three quarters of the government gets deleted.

>>8751978
I'm researching mitochondrial diseases affecting the mitoribosomes.

>>8751982
hopefully not for much longer.

>>8751979
>>8751971
Yea that evil, evil NIH and EPA, truly they are a blight on the American people.

I can see why trumps shills would want them out of the way but anyone else who says shit like this is truly brainwashed. I'd step back from the internet for a long time if I were you.

>>8751979
Yet he's just putting that money into the M-IC.

>>8751985
Well, no, because I just took a position at Duke working on RNA drugs.

What exactly is your problem with my research, anyways? I don't go to your job and tell you it's worthless.

What do you do, anyways?

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>>8751961
Because he's stupid. Didn't you see him at all in the 18 months before the election?

>>8751993
i'm doing similarly useless research in a dying field to boot (combustion.) my problem is that yours, and my project, are one of the many that should have not been funded.

>>8752003
So if someone stupid can be a billionaire and the president of the most powerful country on earth then what are you? Completely brainless?

>>8751961
>>8751949
I thought 4chan loved this guy
this is weird to read on 4chan

>>8752005
Are you seriously suggesting that you want to lose your job because the meme emperor decided on a whim that it's worthless?

Are you on crack?

Meanwhile let's give tax breaks to billionaires and cut massive amounts of funding from critical scientific institutions.

It's almost like he wants this country's already declining advantage in the sciences to be decreased even further. Meanwhile, China has confidence its scientists and its scientific organizations, and many of their politicians have degrees in STEM. We are fucked in the long term because of these stupid ass decisions. I mean NIH? For fuck's sake, of all the things to cut funding from you choose NIH, fucking absurd.

>>8752014
i'm going to lose my job anyway. do you honestly expect combustion research to exist in any meaningful capacity in 10 to 20 years from now? if the project wasn't funded at least i would move earlier.

It is a good fucking thing Congress controls the actual purse of the United States and gets to decide what gets funded and what doesn't.

Holy shit, Trump.

>>8752010
I mean, do I really need to argue that wealth doesn't necessarily correlate to intelligence? Does that not register with you? Or that the skills involved in of real-estate don't translate directly to running a government? You drooling fucking degenerate.

For the record trump didn't create all that wealth with only his wit. Trump came from wealth, most people don't get a million dollars startup and a giant list of contacts right off the bat.

>>8752010
Anyone can get rich if that is all you're interested in, if you don't give a shit of who you fuck up.
And a fuck rich daddy doesn't hurt.

>>8752012

Haven't really seen support for him outside of /pol/ and even then it's all about meme magic and getting the great god Kek to troll the world.

>>8751947

Maybe it's time to just prepare for a future not in the U.S.? China has some serious flaws regarding science and research, but it's started to combat those issues. Given that the U.S. GDP will be dwarfed by China's within a decade, maybe the best answer is just for scientists to head over to another country.

>>8752023
That's your problem. Most of us actually enjoy our research and the biomedical research pays for itself by improving the public health.

>>8752012
Look at the post and poster count. There's an outspoken dipshit on here that always makes anti Trump threads and keeps bumping them. He keeps using the same images too.

>>8752039
go back to /pol/, rebcunt

NIH is one of the most important scientific research bodies in the world. This is unbelievable that he could even suggest cutting their already stagnant budget. They need MORE funding, not less.

>>8752039
Well I agree with him. Just thought he'd be buried under memes or ignored

>>8752033
What skills do you possess then? Other than masterful shitposting and being a living example of the Dunning Kruger effect.

Also, why do you not come from wealth? Is it because your parents were as daft as you? Fact is that even if you were given a million you would just squander it.

>>8752047
My condolences.

>>8752056
>attacks him with strawmen and genetic fallacies
what the fuck sci

>>8752059
Likewise

>>8752061
Might want to look up the definitions of words you throw around.

>>8751947

oh noes he's going to cut seismically! if you still pay attention to things like this you're a sucker.

>>8752056
Why the hell do you creeps get so butt-flustered when people criticize Trump even a teensy bit? You realize Trump is not your friend, right? You never met him and he doesn't know you. He's not part of your family, nor do you owe him anything. If anything HE owes YOU. He's a civil servant.
He's supposed to be helping the country not cutting NIH funding for no good reason.

>>8752056
>What skills do you possess then?

The difference is I'm not trying to run the free world.

Anyone who would defend cuts to the NIH, or the EPA and doesn't happen to an energy executive, is truly brainwashed or retarded. I feel pity for you. :[

>>8752076
I'm a sucker for caring about the fact that he's cutting funding to the institution that funds my research? Do you even think before typing? What else should I care about?

>>8752076
lol, who posts shit like this? Can you post a picture?! Im genuinely interested if being this retarded actually shows on the face, like could I tell from seeing you on the street.

>>8752078
I get butt-flustered by shit threads that lead to nothing but shitposting. Take this to /pol/ where it belongs.

Investment in research has the highest return value in a long term than any possible government spending. While military is known to be a rather wasteful field since all military equipment ages fast and requires extensive maintenance even without much use. Also, scientists don't care that much where to do research. If China becomes a viable alternative to States, than brains will leak out of this country rather fast.

>>8752082

he hasn't cut anything. calm your vagina anon.

>>8752087
>Thread about cutting funding to NIH, a critical scientific institution
>doesn't belong on /sci/

Here's an idea, since you clearly don't want to discuss the topic at hand, how about you get back to >>>/pol/ and let us discuss this?

>>8752086

post in full sentences you poo

>>8752081
>The difference is I'm not trying to run the free world.
So you're less skilled than him just as I originally claimed. Gotcha.

>>8752078
Because they're literally just not-SJWs
Live long enough to see themselves become the villain and all that.

>>8752075
>tries to mock someone without committing to something substantive so that there isn't something for them to rebutt
KOK

>>8752091
Your either absurdly retarded or an outright shill if you believe this thread belongs here.

>>8752089
Ya dude, don't worry. Who cares what the president wants to do. Surely it cant have an effect on us.

>>8752089
The fact that he is trying is alarming enough. This isn't a joke. He doesn't seem to be taking the budget very seriously.

>>8752100
t. everyone I disagree with is a shill

>>8752097
I originally asked for his qualification since he considers Trump to be stupid. He failed to provide any.

>>8752100
Yeesh, when you were a kid did you ever believe you would grow up to be a literal caricature of a bad person?

>>8752104

it's only alarming to the perpetually alarmed

>>8752108
I haven't been alarmed by one single thing Trump has done until now, because it hasn't threatened to affect me. But if he cuts funding to the NIH, it would change the entire playing field for biologists. It's easy for you to be calm when it's not your livelihood at stake.

>>8752106
Actually, you 'responded' in the very post where you posed the question, before he even got a chance to list any. Just started making shit up willy nilly and attribute those things to him

Don't pretend like there was any answer he could have given that would have been satisfactory either way you transparent motherfucker

>>8752106
What's your qualification? That you can fit 14 hot dogs in your mouth at once?

>>8752112
Still waiting for your qualifications.

>>8752116
I learned from the best (your mother.)

How much is the NSF getting cut?

>>8752124
Hopefully, all of it.

>>8752121
Still waiting for you to kill yourself

>>8752130
>being this much of a trump supporter you have to convince yourself his stupid ideas are great
What does it feel like to be an right wing "SJW" anon?

>>8752038
>the biomedical research pays for itself by improving the public health.
Only sometimes, even when it's competent and honest, which most of the time it isn't.

Haven't you heard? Public health is declining. Medical costs are skyrocketing, and yet people are getting worse overall outcomes. Garbage research is a big part of it, sending out wrong and misleading results.

The problem is that being a researcher has been made too attractive for mediocre men. You want people doing science who are driven by curiosity, not by something petty like status of position or having a stable income. There's nothing more pathetic or counterproductive, or less worthy of public funding, than a scientific researcher who just wants to keep their job.

We can pay less and get better results, by not crowding the field with clockpunchers and backstabbers.

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>>8752100
>Your

>>8752175
Mediocre? Do you have any idea how competitive research is? Have you even published a single paper? Or are you just saying whatever you think sounds plausible and hoping it flies?

>>8751947
>the prolife candidate cuts science funding
>the global warming denier candidate cuts science funding
>the religious candidate cuts science funding

Huh, what a surprise

>>8752198
>>8752198
This will end like every republican era does
- massive military buildup
- huge tax cuts for the 1%
- screw the bottom 80%
- let Wall St. run wild, feeding frenzy ends in a crash

gop is the spend & crash party

>>8752195
>Mediocre? Do you have any idea how competitive research is?
Sure, it's competitive in a sense, but it's not a fair or honest competition, because of all the small men willing to throw out the meaning of it all to win.

Like this:
>Have you even published a single paper?
It's all about the count of published papers, and the prestige of the journals. Cranking out garbage, trying to make it sound impressive.

Scientific research isn't supposed to be a competition. How could anyone who views it as such be anything else but a mediocrity? It's a cooperative endeavor, and managing to shoehorning yourself in where you don't belong isn't winning, it's being a nuisance.

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>>8752219
>that feel when you like a conservative approach to government
>everytime it gets in there is a retard at the helm of it who sparks massive social issues, wastes science budgets on pointless wars, and gives the whole spectrum quadrant a bad name

I genuinely understand the middle left for this reason, they as well have to suffer under the stupidity of reasonable, arguably fair, sustainable policies being hijacked by retards who are in it for themselves.
The right goes from "support people who work hard" to "rich get richer, poor get poorer, time to reinstate feudalism by removing all means of class transition", and the left goes from "lets work together to help each other to be better" to "He dindu nuthing, communism time you white male bigots".

This is why I took STEM, I can't handle public opinion.

>>8752012
>/pol/
>4chan
Its called a containment board for a reason

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>>8751947
>Washington post
I see your source has a completely unblemished record of unbiased reporting on the subject. Let's take it as fact.
Good. Get private funding. Either find people that believe in what you're researching enough to invest in the research, or find something to research that people will fund. Government research is way too politicized and unaccountable. I want shareholders to be breathing down the neck of researchers so they actually have accountability.
SpaceX vs. NASA
UPS vs. Postal Service
Private Schools vs. Public
Hollywood vs. FCC
Private enterprise is almost universally more efficient and innovative than some twat suckling off the government tit and sending lobbyists to beg for more funding. Unless you think the fucking DMV is an atmosphere conducive to scientific progress, you shouldn't see a problem here.

>>8752288
>SpaceX vs. NASA
You mean SpaceX that's basing their around cold war technology that was entirely state funded before being defunded?

Nigger open your eyes SpaceX is as capitalism research as you can get - there is barely any innovation and just reusing shit while trying to cut costs.

>>8752195
He's clearly just LARPing.

>>8752288
>I want shareholders to be breathing down the neck of researchers
So you like politicized researchers after all.

Also not every business works better privatized.
For-profit schools vs non-profit universities.
Private jails vs government jails.

>>8752293
Yeah, let's ignore NASA's head start of half a century and trillions of government dollars.
Who is developing AI? IBM. Who is developing power grids and more efficient and cheap sources? The EPA? Nope, they sit around all day and pretend Miami is underwater. GE actually does the work. Did the FDA develop CRISPR? Who developed 3D printers? Oh, some company who saw the potential for the idea. Not some government lackey.

>>8752299
Shareholders aren't politicized, do you have any clue what you're talking about? A shareholder doesn't vote along party lines or try to establish laws or regulations. They are just concerned with profit, and the only way to get profit on the open market is to get results. If you want results, you should favor private enterprise.

>>8752307
>Yeah, let's ignore NASA's head start of half a century and trillions of government dollars.
Private businesses existed almost as long as NASA did. NASA got defunded into pennies and after how many years only did SpaceX pick up the slack starting precisely from the point where NASA left and using Russian rocket technology?

Now tell me who developed fission technology, or the internet. Surely some priva... oh.

As it shows the private companies haven't made any single breakthrough, just refining on an existing idea or promises. We would probably have several working fusion reactors if the public funding was anywhere near usual cold war levels.

>>8752195
>Argument from authority
Yeah, not gonna convince anyone.
>Haha what the fuck are you talking about, Copernicus? The sun clearly goes around the Earth, dumbass. Have you even writen a single book about heavenly bodies? The entire scholarly community is in agreement that you're wrong.

>>8752317
That's not argument from authority dumbass. That's asking if you actually had any contact with research to see for yourself and not spout stupid shit.

>>8752111
You should have chosen to research something meaningful and profitable then, instead of deciding to scratch your intellectual itch at taxpayers expense, fucking faggot biologist

>>8752314
>private companies haven't made any single breakthrough
Flight
The telephone
Audio recording
Photography
Light bulbs
Assembly line
Combustion engine
Printing press
99% of all human advancement.

>>8752319
Wow, you went from argument from authority down to 3rd grade name-calling pretty quickly.
Yes, when you devalue an opinion or belief by saying the person making it hasnt even published any papers, you're making an argument from authority.

>>8752240
Eh, fair enough I stand corrected

>>8752322
>things that didn't require any funding and happened before government ever got into the idea of funding science
Protip: a single person in garage isn't a private company run for profit.

>>8752288
>>8752293
>>8752307
>>8752314
>>8752322
you guys..
you know there's no reason nasa can't contract spacex to make certain shit for them while nasa makes other shit, then nasa assembles it all and fires it off, right? I mean so long as the old fucks can get over themselves and their politics and let things happen

Isn't that like the ideal outcome? NASA wants to plan a mission to europa. NASA goes, elon pls maek rocket 2 europa. NASA can give them specifications, NASA does the training and constructs the crew capsule or whatever. Or mabe the contract is done by bid.
why is it always one or the other with you faggots?

>>8752326
>Yes, when you devalue an opinion or belief by saying the person making it hasnt even published any papers, you're making an argument from authority.
No, he is asking you whether you have ever had any experience in the field as your argument essentially boils down to saying that research isn't competitive without having any proof.

And no randomly calling you a fucktard doesn't affect the quality of the argument, nor is it supposed to be the central point of it.

If you're not sacrifying a better payed career in the private sector to contribute to research, then you're just a public resources leech

>>8752311
>do you have any clue what you're talking about?
Do you? The term "politics" applies to more than governments.

Researchers under the control of shareholders know they can only deliver "results" their shareholders will like. They'll never discover anything that undermines the bottom line. Look at the smoking studies funded by Phillip Morris. That's politics.

>>8752307
>Who is developing AI? IBM.
And who originally developed the basic techniques that IBM uses, long before anyone realized there was big money in it?

>>8751949
God forbid someone in academia have a conservative worldview

>>8752012
That's because this board, like most of them these days, is full of redditors like you. That, and astroturfing shills.

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Why does society treat researchers like garbage?
>highly educated
>highly skilled
>highly productive
>in a high pressure environment
yet the jobs are
>low status
>low pay
>low respect

>>8752347
So you're saying those in the private sector are public resource leeches?

>>8752322
>low hanging fruit

No where near as advanced as the integrated circuit, spaceships, nuclear energy, LHC, internet, GPS.

Basically, think of any technology that would require billions of dollars in R&D and you'd realize that without government intervention, they would be impossible by private companies.

>>8752012
>/sci/
>liking Trump
pick one. We are not the uneducated morons of /pol/

Fuck drumpf can't the UN just dispose of him or something? It's literally 2017 there's no way we can let one clown in one country to ruin it for EVERYONE.

There are STILL people defending him? Even some Califag sharing his girlfriend with a nigger is less KEKED than you now. holy fuck

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>>8752635
I'm mostly /sci/ and /g/ but I love Trump simply because he triggers the sjw's

You ivory tower intellectuals must not lose touch with the world of industrial growth and hard currency. It is all very well and good to pursue these high-minded scientific theories, but research grants are expensive and you must justify your existence by providing not only knowledge, but concrete and profitable applications as well.

>>8752676
There's a difference between enjoying the media outrage of the elections that Trump caused and actually supporting politics like this. Example: I like watching the liberal chimpout but I'm obviously not going to support cuts like this or any kind of his retarded conservative policies. The way you're phrasing your post implies that you don't give a fuck about his economic policies and care more about pissing off SJWs.

>>8752635
>/pol/
>uneducated morons
How long have you been on this site, pray tell?

Thanks Trump for making us the rest of the world GREAT again ;)
(Nothing personal, USA)

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>>8751961

Because the man is ignorant as fuck. He thinks giving control to the private sector is the answer to everything but fails to realize that the government is one of the biggest funders of innovation because they're willing to take chances on shit big businesses wouldn't. Prime examples being nuclear research and space aeronautics.

Also Trump and the Republicans are scared bitches who will do everything in their power not to touch the two biggest offenders of the national debt. Those being defense and social security.

>>8752010

Trump was born a fucking millionaire. People need to stop giving him credit for what his father did, you did not elect Fred Trump, you elected his fucking spoiled son Donald Trump, the guy gives zero fucks about the struggles of the common man, the guy who dropped 30 million on a yacht from the prince of Saudi Arabia, the who married/ had children with two foreign super models and a domestic super model.

He is rich "Chad" in sheep's clothing.

>>8752012

No, Trump was meme used to piss off the SJWs. He was never "our guy", the fact a serious number of people actually took this fucking meme/ guy seriously is a sign of how fucked our state of society is both online and offline.

Yeah Hillary was a corrupt bitch but that doesn't stop Trump from being spoiled business man who hired jews to handle his money. The right answer to the election was to either pick Bernie or keep Obama in long enough to get new decent candidates on the Democrat and Republican side. But because we're a bunch of short sided idiots we thought the only answers available to us was one or the other.

>>8751947
Notice how none of the anti-Trumpers can articulate a single argument against him.

It really is envy.

>>8752719
>The post above
>The irony
kek'd

>>8752713
> Because the man is ignorant as fuck. He thinks giving control to the private sector is the answer to everything but fails to realize that the government is one of the biggest funders of innovation because they're willing to take chances on shit big businesses wouldn't.

In the private sector before undertaking major investments firms hire analysts to calculate the potential profit and loss of their investment. If the private sector won't venture into a something it says something about it's profitability.

> Also Trump and the Republicans are scared bitches who will do everything in their power not to touch the two biggest offenders of the national debt. Those being defense and social security.

He's winding back both of those. However it's a gradual process. You are obviously some parasite who relies on tax dollars.

> Trump was born a fucking millionaire

He was a upper-middle class real estate developer, and his father's wealth a hundred fold more.

> People need to stop giving him credit for what his father did, you did not elect Fred Trump, you elected his fucking spoiled son Donald Trump, the guy gives zero fucks about the struggles of the common man, the guy who dropped 30 million on a yacht from the prince of Saudi Arabia, the who married/ had children with two foreign super models and a domestic super model.

You seriously should stay in your containment website which is Reddit and Occupy Democrats.

Why don't you run a business and make it grow. Then you can live off it and pay for whatever worthless research it is you do.

What's this with the common man? Why should that matter. He employs people and has created many jobs for Americans instead of destroying jobs and handing out welfare.

> He is rich "Chad" in sheep's clothing.

Reeeeee. Am I right? Fuck you faggot.

>>8752635
*tips fedora*

>>8752222
>competition is bad we should cooperate instead
move to Cuba commie

>>8752635
That's the unfortunate fact. With all the education you have received, supposedly, you still make judgments based on emotion, half facts and peer pressure.

>>8752683
> You ivory tower intellectuals
Most of these losers here probably mop the floors at an university or are arsekissers.

>>8752722
It's quite obvious that there was a delay between my updating this thread and writing my post.

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>>8752322
>Light bulbs

You probably think Edison invented the light bulb all by himself in the corporate basement.

In fact most of your list is fucking stupid. Even if it was correct, it doesn't help your point at all because most of those inventions were the final step in a long line of progress. Just because you're the first to patent something doesn't mean you came up with it 100% by yourself.

>>8752633
Most of those things were made accessible to the average person thanks to capitalism and the rich people who would have initially bought the stuff which would have subsidized it's development while it was in it's formative years. For example wireless phones were exclusively owned by rich people who had them installed in their limos. This funded R&D necessary to further shrink the cell phone and make it cheaper.

>>8752676
You are a child. SJWs are where they are because of people like you. You would probably quiver at the sight of an SJW.

Having read lectures in climate threads about how discussion of politics on /sci/ makes them off topic, and is why they get modded, and how it has nothing to do with the political point being made it's just that politics does not belong on /sci/, I am interested to see how long this thread lasts.

>>8752723
>if the private sector won't venture into a something it says something about it's profitability
because obviously profitability works exactly the same for a nation as for a private research institute or company

>>8752736
To further my original point

https://mises.org/library/government-did-invent-internet-market-made-it-glorious

Also let me add, what if the free market had made the internet? It was quite capable of doing so. But like anything else, firms respond to changes in law, regulation and the markets.

When firms say the government undertake development in the internet why bother reinventing the wheel.

>>8751961
>Why is he doing this?

Because the government, in his view, cannot run forever spending way ore money than it takes in. Since everything the government does is important to somebody, whatever gets cut will be, in somebody's view, really important.

What we wish we could spend at some point needs to be tempered by what we can afford.

This is true even of research spending.

>>8752005
Are you really this retarded? You think you understand the value of research in a field you know nothing about?

>>8752740
Nations have no business doing things that should and can be left to the private sector.

Why would profitability be any different. It's up to you to make the point fagbrain.

>>8751987
>Yea that evil, evil NIH and EPA, truly they are a blight on the American people.

No, but on the other hand they are not entitled to money that we do not have.

>>8752333
It's a single person inventing for profit. You think people do this shit out of the goodness of their hearts? Grow up. People invent things because they want to make money. The idea that a bunch of people funded by the government will invent something to help others is a utopian fantasy. Money is what drives true innovation.

>>8752036
It's time this board gets a thread going to figure out which non-communist country will be the best to do research in 10 years.

>>8752748
>Nations have no business doing things that should be left to the private sector.

You sure showed me with that tautology.

>>8752746
Also Trumps cut's will encourage research spending on more pertinent matters or things that could be marketable and eventually end up sustaining themselves in terms of R&D.

The left is very amusing. As champions of progressive values they always encourage us to open our minds and broaden our horizon.

Yet when it comes to innovation and exploring new policy, they are quick to bark.

>>8752029
>Holy shit, Trump.

You are now aware the "he wrote" a book describing his negotiating tactics, and that he explains how he sets out an initial position well beyond the one where he hope to arrive after negotiation.

>>8752750
> they are not entitled to money that we do not have.
But the Pentagon is apparently. They're getting a 10% increase to their budget, paid for by cuts to medical research and air/water quality.

>>8752035
>But those grapes are really sour, anyway, that's why we choose to remain poor.

>>8752754
It's quite clear that you are avoiding my arguments.

Explain to me what research it is you do and why it's of importance?

>>8752516
because researchers treat themselves like garbage. they try to one up each other constantly and trample over those doing similar research. worse yet, since researchers depend heavily on government funds the "muh minorities" bullshit is cranked up to 11. this results in people entering the field not due to competence but due to the color of their skin and gender.

research in the US is fucked to the point that it will shrivel and die regardless of budget cuts or not.

>>8752755
>Yet when it comes to innovation and exploring new policy, they are quick to bark.
Big cuts to everything else in order to give more money to the military isn't "innovation" or "exploring new policy." We've done that sort of thing before. It was a bad idea then, and it still is.

>>8752756
The issue here is some pseudo-intellectual faggots want to spend other people's money on themselves and realize they provide nothing of value to society besides churning government funds into "promising" reports.

>>8752757
So, we are switching to party talking-points now?

>>8752762
>It's quite clear that you are avoiding my arguments.
>arguments

>Explain to me what research it is you do and why it's of importance?
NDA

>>8752768
No, just pointing out what is in the budget. Namely big cuts to research, the EPA, etc. and a 10% increase in defense spending.

>>8752754
How was my statement a tautology? You dense retard.

I meant no business figuratively. Gosh, you are one a moron.

>>8752766
Care to provide sources for your claims, or actually argue them?

Also where did he say he'd be giving more money to the military?

What slight attachment this thread had to science has been abandoned in favor of politics. Hiding and moving on.

>>8752713
>Trump was born a fucking millionaire.
you realize that turning a million into a billion is equivalent of turning a thousand dollars into a million? you being incapable of either.

>He was never "our guy"
yeah, i'm sure he wasn't, redditor.

>>8752773
>How was my statement a tautology?
It was a tautology in the way that it was a tautology.

>>8751947
clearly pic related indicates this is because the god emperor will be doing all the science himself

>>8752175
>garbage research is a big part of it
[Citation needed]

Surely we can spend less and less money on research and eventually it will get better right?! Jesus you're retarded.

>>8752767
As a percentage of the budget, they're nothing compared to the droves of military-industrial faggots who want to spend other people's money on themselves and realize they provide nothing of value to society besides churning government funds into hardware that sits unused in a desert if it ever even gets made at all.

>>8752769
Exactly. While I am working contributing things of value to society you will be scrubbing floors at the nearest Walmart.

It's quite simple. Trump has made you realize your absolute worthlessness. You wouldn't be without a job if you actually had a useful degree and background but it's because you are inept that you throwing this tantrum.

>arguments

I know you think you are being smart. But to all the 3rd party observers you look pathetic trying to avoid responding to my arguments.

>>8752773
> Also where did he say he'd be giving more money to the military?
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/16/politics/donald-trump-defense-budget-blueprint/
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/16/trump-budget-seeks-defense-spending-boost-major-cuts-in-other-agencies.html

>>8752783
>I'm so much better than this person I'm imagining you as
congratz

>>8752723

>In the private sector before undertaking major investments firms hire analysts to calculate the potential profit and loss of their investment. If the private sector won't venture into a something it says something about it's profitability.

But we're not talking about profitability here you retard. We're talking about innovation, mathematicians and science researchers do

>He's winding back both of those. However it's a gradual process.

No, he's not. Not only is he doubling down on military funding.

http://www.npr.org/2017/03/16/520305293/trump-to-unveil-hard-power-budget-that-boosts-military-spending

But he is refusing to even touch social security in favor of more tax cuts.

http://takeastand.aarp.org/candidate/donald-trump/


>You are obviously some parasite who relies on tax dollars.

I hate to break it to you Anon but the job I'm currently working classifies me as an engineer with a salary making more than the average working family in America.

I probably stand more to gain by keeping Trump in office than you do.

I'm not even going to bother responding the rest of your post because it would be act of redundancy entering into internet tribalism and name calling.

>>8752782
You do understand that I do not support the military industrial complex either. However America can't just unwind it's military spending. Especially in the political climate we are in now.

More money for the wall

>>8752789
But it's okay to unwind its research spending?

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>>8752686
>>8752736
I have to deal with SJW'S every day. They are the ones who created Trump, not the other way around. I voted for Trump because he was a human molotov cocktail to throw at the elites. I could care less how good or bad his policies are, I want him to fuck shit up.

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>>8752796
>voted for Trump because he was a human molotov cocktail to throw at the elites

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>>8752800
Ok

>>8752784
Fair enough. But why do you think that's unreasonable if it means protecting America's sovereignty and military pacts?

>>8752787
> But we're not talking about profitability here you retard. We're talking about innovation, mathematicians and science researchers do
Which the private sector can do better. I responded to you on this point. Government can bring about innovation but nothing like the private sector.

> I'm not even going to bother responding the rest of your post because it would be act of redundancy
Again. You've shown yourself inept at holding an argument.

>>8752779
You should brush on your propositional logic.

>>8752807
>You should brush on your propositional logic.
You sure showed me with that >argument.

>>8752796
>I voted for Trump because he was a human molotov cocktail to throw at the elites
This surely explains that
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/02/trumps-rich-pickings-president-elects-team-could-be-wealthiest-ever

>>8752794
Yes. I would be for unwinding military spending too. But I am also unaware of Trump's justification. He might have good reasons for doing so.

>>8752805
>>8752796
ok

>>8752347
>sacrifying

Nice

>>8752796
>I could care less how good or bad his policies are, I want him to fuck shit up.

You're a retard

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>>8752810
How rich his cabinet is is a red herring

>>8752800
hes right u know

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>>8752813
Cry harder

>>8752809
Look I can't waste my time talking to a soon to be unemployed loser like you. You'll have all the time in the world to scrub floors and brush on logic once Trumps cuts your funding.

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>>8752815

>>8752820
>I'm so much better than the person I'm imagining you as

>>8752810
>>8752814
You see Anon the Redditor Anon doesn't understand basic economics. Rich people are rich because they provide valuable goods and services to society. The anti-Trump side is marked by autism, envy and class warfare.

He's trying to rile you up by implying they're rich because you're poor.

>>8752818

epic trolling /b/ro

>>8752824

>Rich people are rich because they provide valuable goods and services to society.

>I voted for Trump because he was a human molotov cocktail to throw at the elites

Why do Trump supporters contradict themselves at every turn?

>>8752814
>'elite' means whatever it serves my purpose for it to mean

>>8752824
Retard.

>>8752807
> Fair enough. But why do you think that's unreasonable if it means protecting America's sovereignty and military pacts?

We were able to do that with prior levels of defense spending. We literally spend more than the next five countries put together. The US alone is more than a third of total defense spending for the entire human species.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/military-spending-cuts/u-s-military-spending-dwarfs-rest-world-n37461

Throwing more money at the military isn't going to produce better results. They have immense stockpiles of unused equipment built up because the US just keeps shoveling money into the military regardless of its actual utility. If you want to improve the military, the ways to do that right now are by improving the quality of the people who are enlisting. The military is basically filled with the bottom rungs of society, and as such have to work with some pretty inept recruits. That's an example of where you can improve national security. Not by throwing more money at new equipment, but by better educating the entire society so that the bottom tier is just a little bit better.

>>8752829
You got us mixed up.

>>8752832
Cry harder. You had the MAINSTREAM METEOR on your side and lost. HAHAHAHAHA

>>8752829
>>8752830
Rich doesn’t mean elite, and elite doesn't mean rich. Jesus you guys are dumb. Elite are the power holders and globalist shills.

>>8752807

>Again. You've shown yourself inept at holding an argument.

Saids the Anon who was proven wrong on multiple points. Or are we going to ignore the fact I just proved you wrong in Trump's policy in both military and social security by the links I provided.

>>8752836
in the parlance of this fellow elite is code for jewish

>>8752836
>Rich doesn’t mean elite, and elite doesn't mean rich.

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

You mean they did until you needed to worm yourself out of a corner

>>8752836
>Elite are the power holders and globalist shills
you're not exactly contradicting me m8

>>8752838
Lies. I don't have any issues with jews. I'm not from /pol/

>>8752834
I agree with you Anon. However I believe Trump is taking America forward. He wasn't my preferred candidate. I've loved a Rand Paul presidency or Ted Cruz.

However you do understand that Europe's entire defense relies on America's spending. It's unfortunate but there are a lot of shady deals.

Currently there has been a massive amount of arrests on pedophilia and CP charges but you haven't heard much of it on the media. Trumps at work draining the swamp.

>>8752837
I was wrong but I also did add gradual. It's not going to be any issue. You on the other hand have been unsuccessful at dealing with the bulk of my argument regarding the private sector and research. Rather you nitpick.

>>8752836

>Rich doesn’t mean elite, and elite doesn't mean rich.

By statistical nature they are damn well near the same thing. At the very least they have a distinctively strong symbiotic relationship to the point where economically and genetically blur the lines.

>>8752844
>Trumps at work draining the swamp.

Filling the swamp with creationists and climate change deniers isn't draining it

>>8752851
Creationism has more evidence to it than evolution. Also climate change is a hoax. However wannabe scientist like yourself love to fit in, and are incapable of critical thought.

Your worldview is the result of confining yourself to certain autism-inducing subreddits and Occupy Democrat.

>>8752851
I'm not aware of any openly creationist people in the cabinet, and everyone accepts climate change, there's just disagreement over how much is caused by humans.

>>8752843
then elites are a superset of the rich, all rich are elite, but some elites are not super rich

>>8752844
> However you do understand that Europe's entire defense relies on America's spending.
America's defense spending mostly doesn't even help America's defense, let alone Europe's defense. It goes to lining the pockets of defense contractors and the former military officials that they employ. The US military's procurements process is incredibly wasteful, designed and managed largely by people angling for cushy jobs at the very companies that they are deal with.

>>8752857
>creationism has more evidence than evolution
why are you on this board? more than that, why do you even breathe?

>>8752851
http://www.climatescienceinternational.org/index.php?option=com_content&id=289
https://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/07/what_are_the_to_1/

>>8752857
>Creationism has more evidence

stopped reading there

>>8752858
> and everyone accepts climate change

Trump himself doesn't, and don't fucking mince words here, we all know what "climate change" means. Hint: Anthropogenic climate change.

>>8752844
How is cutting the NIH budget by one sixth draining the swamp?

>>8752859
There's plenty of people who are rich who aren't part of the elites, and there are elites who aren't even remotely rich.

>>8752796
Can't wait to see how the elites are fucked over by tax cuts.

>>8752862
Evolutionists are so pathetic. You faggots are a hivemind incapable of criticizing the central tenets of your faith.

>>8752861
Which keeps Russia and China at bay. Along with Turkey and the rest of the Arab and Muslim world.

>>8752811
>good reasons for doing so

I thought he was a master negotiator??? But he's too stupid to find any fat in the world's largest military program?

>>8752867
Why should government do anything beyond defense, justice and policing?

Why can't the private sector take care of healthcare like it has for many years. In fact it's been driving force for the recent innovations in healthcare to this day.

>>8752865
Not an argument ::))

>>8752865
Right, but anthropogenic climate change is a subset of overall climate change, which is why it's still a reasonable question to ask how much of the overall climate change is due to human activity.

>>8752877

>derp

>>8752876
Again I don't disagree with you too much on this. But why don't you instead deal with his justification for the idea instead of austitically harping on this single point

>>8752877
>Why should government do anything beyond defense, justice and policing?
>Why can't the private sector take care of healthcare like it has for many years. In fact it's been driving force for the recent innovations in healthcare to this day?
Why does the military and police get special privileges in your book? Why not privatize them, too?

>>8752844
>Mitch McConnell still in office
Swamp drained!

>>8752878
>why it's still a reasonable question to ask how much of the overall climate change is due to human activity.

No that's not reasonable, we wouldn't be talking about climate change at all if not for that caused by humans.

>>8752877
why government?

>>8752883
How would the poor see justice?

>>8752886
Why government what?

>>8752869
The elites may not super rich but certainly part of the top .1%.

>>8752872
> Which keeps Russia and China at bay.
China's territorial interests are largely in Asia and Africa, not Europe. As for Russia, at this point in a conflict between Russia and Europe it is unclear whose side the US would even be on. Turkey is a member of NATO, and as such they're more interested in using the US and Europe than fighting them since they can call on the US and Europe to assist them via treaty.

>>8752887
why should there be a government

>>8752887
> How would the poor see justice?
How would the poor see health with privatized health care?

>>8752887
>How would the poor see justice?
And by the same token, if you put science solely in the hands of big corporations, how will there be any hope for people with rare diseases that aren't profitable to cure? Do you see my point?

>>8752885
That doesn't answer my honest question at all by just saying "humans did it, there, go away." I've never once had anyone who says humans are the main source of climate change tell me a figure of how much we are actually responsible for, along with a statistical model showing the results.

>>8752887
Why would the poor be entitled to """justice"""?

>>8752889
Turkey has been a loss canon ever since Erdogan has been using the Syrian migrants to barter against Europe with.

> China's territorial interests are largely in Asia and Africa, not Europe.
What is to say they won't expand? BRIC?

>>8752892
I believe governments when limited and transparent can assist in matters where the private sector can't function effectively.

>>8752881
My point is that a justification does not exist.

>>8752895
Charity, same as the way it was before government started mucking around in the healthcare business in the first place. The idea that you need the government to take care of every single thing is just plain wrong. People got by without government handouts, they can do so again.

>>8752902
what do you mean by effectively

>>8752899
>That doesn't answer my honest question at all

You didn't even ask a question you fucking idiot. I swear you people come from a mental home or something. You can't even remember what you typed 2 minutes ago.

>>8752899
If you actually think you can understand the research, why don't you go read the research?

>>8752895
Seriously? Healthcare has only been an issue when doctors started regulating the market and government started taxing people.

Private healthcare is actually affordable and better. US cancer patients have greater chances of survival. In fact a complete deregulation of healthcare would see massive drops in pricing.

There is also charity. I get that you are selfish and also of little worth to society so it's hard if you imagine yourself in a position to offer anyone anything else. But don't project onto others.

>>8752901
That's what government are envisioned to do. Romans 13 teaches God creates government for the purposing of exacting judgment on the wicked.

>>8752908
I simply asked how much of the current changes in climate are humans responsible for?? How does that make me a fucking idiot?

>>8752905
>People got by without government handouts, they can do so again.

People can get by with higher taxes, they can do so again.

>>8752903
You mean hasn't been released or one you haven't found

>>8752910
>Romans 13

>>8752910
>Romans 13 teaches
nice bait

>>8752911
>I simply asked how much of the current changes in climate are humans responsible for??
>are humans responsible for??
> for??
>??

Go back to facebook you imbecile

>>8752917
It's quite obvious I'm a Christian and not a godless atheist "freethinker".

>>8752922
>It's quite obvious I'm a Christian and not a godless atheist "freethinker".

opinion discarded then

>>8752918
>>8752917
> science has done away with religion
Lol you probably think the God delusion is a good book.

>>8752922
So why shouldn't the government be involved in religion as well?
>>8752926
>if you don't think pauline epistles should inform the form of government you're probably a dawkinsredditor

>>8752911
What makes you think that question has a simple answer? Do you think there is a goddamn percentage? The fact is that humans are creating a significant amount of climate change. Meaning more than just a teensy bit. If you have more specific questions you should use Google or post in the daily climate threads that /pol/ starts on /sci/.

>>8752913
Higher taxes do nothing but take money out of the pockets of productive citizens for the benefit of the moocher class. The government can fulfill all of its necessary functions with lower taxes, it does not need more nor does it deserve more.

>>8752916
Meaning if he released one it would be bulshit. The defense budget is fucking gigantic and now Trump is feeding it at the expense of scientific research.

>>8752767
/sci/ is like 70% composed of faggots who want to bask in their superior smartitude rather than actually discuss something. In current year +2 the thing people do to signal their smartitude is whine about Trump.

Medical research will do just fine even with less federal shekels.

>>8752932
People still get by.

>>8752932
>the moocher class

I'm not going to bother arguing with you when you use childish appeals to emotion like that. You should learn how to have a conversation.

>>8752932

Who cares about any of that, if they still get by?

>>8752928
> So why shouldn't the government be involved in religion as well?
Considering how obscenely out of control the mudslimes are getting, it absolutely should be involved in religion. When some religions pose an existential threat to modern human society, that is one of the few times a government definitely should step in. That's what they're for, defending civilization against savages, and that requires promoting religion when it benefits civilization and destroying religions that would destroy civilization.

>>8752486
There is a difference btw being conservative and voting for Trump

>>8751978
Research costs a lot of money for all sorts of things especially materials

I bought a 5g bottle of luminol the other day and it cost 60 dollars there's no way I could afford that without the research money

>>8752100
>your
>shill
aka, *you're a buttblasted faggot who will suck up to Trumpdaddy despite nearly all of his policies being anti-science, on a SCIENCE BOARD.

You know, people are free to criticize your Dear Leader when he makes a very stupid decision, such as cutting funds to the EPA / NIH / NOAA, DoE, etc. All of these organizations contribute a lot to the United States as a world leader in scientific research. You want to destroy that because your idol said so, and you must parrot whatever retarded decisions he makes because criticism is not allowed.

>>8752941
>it absolutely should be involved in religion
so you answered your own question

>>8752942
True conservatives voted for Trump. The people you're referring to are just plain cucks.

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>>8752234
center left paleofag here
I feel you

>>8752288
>I want shareholders to be breathing down the neck of researchers so they actually have accountability.
this is a very good way to end all advancement within ten years.
literally the ONLY WAY we get new and better tech is by engaging in undirected research that doesn't lead to some guaranteed profit; we have to be able to actually experiment, pursue new ideas, without worrying that a new project not immediately panning out would be a career-killer. a lot of big firms understand this and let their researchers take those kinds of chances, because it does pay off big now and again.
>Hollywood vs. FCC
OH LAWD MAH DRILLS

>>8752321
>fucking faggot biologist
enjoy not dying of cholera and polio

>>8752719
>>8752731
>takes nearly three minutes to write two sentences
go play with your Speak & Spell

>>8752723
>If the private sector won't venture into a something it says something about it's profitability.
confirmed brainlet.
sometimes it's not about profitability, but rather about risk, or even about getting the necessary resources together. our highway system is hugely profitable for the country as a whole, but it took government investment to put together because the risk was too high for any private firm to justify putting all those resources into it. (also the issue of trying to monetize highways.)
>defense and social security.
>He's winding back both of those. However it's a gradual process.
literally giving an extra $54 BILLION to the Pentagon that they didn't even ask for. how cucked are people who still like Trump, that they're so desperate to thing he's on their side that they just pretend he's doing what they want?
oh wait, delusional fantasies are nothing new for you /pol/acks.

>>8752949

True conservatives wouldn't vote for a progressive like Trump.

>haha fuck yeah science xD gas the jews, trump will get us to Andromeda
>fuck pseudo-intellectual working scientists and fuck science spending, NO LIBRULS ALLOWED

we've come a long way it seems

>>8752932
>researchers studying new treatments for diseases are "moochers"

>>8752919
>>8752930
See, this type of hostility is what makes me skeptical in the first place. I simply ask for some basic information and all I get is shitted on. I fully accept evolution, and I believe humans contribute to changes in the environment and climate. My only question is how much do we contribute to the climate? And all I fucking get is white noise.

>>8752951
READ YOU DUMB FUCK
https://mises.org/library/government-spending-innovation-true-cost-higher-you-think

>>8752951
>this is a very good way to end all advancement within ten years.
>literally the ONLY WAY we get new and better tech is by engaging in undirected research that doesn't lead to some guaranteed profit; we have to be able to actually experiment, pursue new ideas, without worrying that a new project not immediately panning out would be a career-killer. a lot of big firms understand this and let their researchers take those kinds of chances, because it does pay off big now and again.
Fucking this. For profit research only fuck with research direction and new adventure or innovations don't happen

Keep politics out of science research, it's a fucking blight

>>8752956
>See, this type of hostility is what makes me skeptical in the first place

Why would hostility make you skeptical? That doesn't make logical sense.

>>8752961
You are like a murder suspect under police investigation. You frigid bitch.

>>8752959
Exactly keep socialism out of science. You parasitic fuck.

>>8752954
Government funded "researchers" do jack shit. They're just a bunch of do-nothing cunts who got their jobs because they had a vagina or dark skin.

>>8752959
>>8752962
>my ideology is apolitical other people's ideologies are political

>>8752966
t. Not a researcher

>>8752968
I don't want some fuck head politician to tell me what to research because it doesn't suit his interests. The money and grants I receive go towards the advancement of science

>>8752968
What your advocating for is called socialism. A political theory. Because to have PUBLIC research we need to have WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION.

>>8752961
Because when you ask very simple questions and never get a clear answer, it makes me skeptical. I'm just like, well, how do we know that humans are the driving factor? It's like, I ask, how old is the Universe, and someone can go, well we have these galaxies moving away and these things are red-shifted, blah blah blah, and the equations show us 13.8B years; or how old is the Earth? And we do these radiometric tests on these samples and get 4.5B years; or how do we know evolution is true, well we've got these genetic markers, and they are distributed in this way on this tree so we know humans have a common ancestor at so many years ago with other primates. But I ask, how much do humans drive the changes in climate, and I get...
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>8752974
>advocating
where?

>>8752974
> What your advocating for is called socialism.
> Because to have PUBLIC research we need to have WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION.
So you're a socialist if you want public funding for anything? In order to have public defense, we need to have wealth distribution? In order to have public justice?

By that logic, any government at all is socialism.

>>8752958
>Yet, in the end, VHS proved to be economically superior in that consumers ultimately chose VHS over Beta. Betamax failed the market test in spite of its arguably superior technology.

I don't know what conclusion they're drawing from this. If betamax was truly superior from an engineering point of view, it was better overall. Whether or not it sold has no bearing on how good it was. Saying that it does contradicts another argument in the article, that the pyramids were an example of poor government spending. Because the pyramids are still with us and are a lasting symbol of what could have been a forgotten empire. The pyramids are analagous to VHS in this article.

What a shitty argument, I didn't bother reading the rest.

>>8752976
>Because when you ask very simple questions and never get a clear answer, it makes me skeptical.

>What makes the sky blue
>um uhh you know it's something to do with the atmosphere...
>Hmm now I am skeptical that the sky is actually blue

This is your logic. You're an idiot.

>>8752985
>name calling for a basic question
Thanks senpai.

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>>8752736
>Most of those things were made accessible to the average person thanks to capitalism
this is the whole point that other guy has been making. private industry doesn't usually make real advances; they take what publicly funded science creates, and find better and more efficient applications of what's already out there.
this isn't to say we don't get useful things from the private sector, merely that they too rely on publicly funded science for their (and our) prosperity.

>>8752753
my gut tells me Germany, maybe the Netherlands.

>>8752755
>innovation and exploring new policy
that's a funny way to say "stifling innovation and going back to old failed policies"

>>8752773
>How was my statement a tautology?
>Government shouldn't do things that should be done by not-the-government!
fucking imbecile

>>8752776
he literally would be worth more today if he'd just invested in an index fund instead of pretending to be a real estate mogul.

>>8752796
>I could care less how good or bad his policies are, I want him to fuck shit up.
you guys really need to get laid.

>>8752807
>You should brush on your propositional logic.
>missing the joke this badly
the only (((logical))) conclusion is that you don't know what a tautology is.

>>8752843
>I'm not from /pol/
this is the surest sign of a /pol/ack on /sci/

>>8752857
>Creationism has more evidence to it than evolution. Also climate change is a hoax. However wannabe scientist like yourself love to fit in, and are incapable of critical thought.
>Your worldview is the result of confining yourself to certain autism-inducing subreddits and Occupy Democrat.
ME ME BIG BOY

>>8752889
wow, a post with actual nuance and educated viewpoints.
I shall long remember this.

>>8752941
>That's what they're for, defending civilization against savages, and that requires promoting religion when it benefits civilization and destroying religions that would destroy civilization.
mfw shart-in-marts think they're the pinnacle of civilization

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>>8752976
> I'm just like, well, how do we know that humans are the driving factor?
Because we've been able to calculate how much each factor contributes to global temperature. Natural factors more or less balance out at the moment, while man made factors have pushed the world in the direction of warming. Additionally, existing natural factors lack the means to drive temperature changes as quickly as what we're seeing now. Things like orbital changes both take a long time and are rather predictable.

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>>8752962
>>8752974
Wow great argument fagtron you sure convinced me with those hot opinions

>>8752974
So public libraries are socialism?

>you guys really need to get laid.
How about staying focused on the issues instead of resorting to petty attacks?
>this is the surest sign of a /pol/ack on /sci/
This is the surest sign of someone who doesn't have a good argument that they have to attack the poster instead of the idea.
>my gut tells me Germany, maybe the Netherlands.
Europe is going to crumble, I'd suggest the United States, Canada, or China

>>8752995
Yes. They should be funded by fees so that the people who are using it are the ones paying for it.

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>How about staying focused on the issues
>I could care less how good or bad his policies are, I want him to fuck shit up.
Really Makes You Think
>they have to attack the poster instead of the idea
>idea
sure, if MUH GLOBAL (((ELITES))) is an idea, let's go with that
no (You) 4 u

>>8753000
You're fucking retarded, you don't know what socialism is. You think a publicly funded anything is socialism proves you don't.

>>8752993
See, this is the type of response I was looking for. Not some autistic screeching. I haven't seen this chart before. What journal article or book is it from?

>>8752997
China is going to dissolve into civil war once they're no longer able to keep up their pace of growth. The PRC draws its support entirely from its ability to keep the economy moving ahead at a breakneck pace. The moment they can't, the people will see no reason to tolerate their continued existence and they'll be toast. This is how China works historically, you rule so long as you hold the mandate of heaven. That is demonstrated by your ability to keep the nation prosperous. If you can't, then you obviously lost the mandate of heaven and should be overthrown so that the next person, who clearly has the mandate of heaven because they won, can restore that prosperity. This results in the dynastic cycles that you see throughout China's history.

>>8753002
>MUH GLOBAL (((ELITES)))
I think you just need some water filters and you'll be set.

>>8753000
Look guy, it's okay, just say it. You really don't care about the well-being of a population, nor economics beyond your own paycheck. Because publicly funded libraries are one of the most economical and beneficial institutions around. It's such a miniscule fraction of our spending. Giving free access to information creates a more-informed and educated society that pays off economically. A country full of retards brings us down. But you have your paycheck to penny-pinch.

>>8753007
>https://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar4/wg1/ar4-wg1-spm.pdf
figure adapted from one on page 4

>>8752974
Most retarded post of the year until now. Congrats

>>8751947
lel
this is what happens when you set your electoral system up to make the votes of stupid people in rural areas count for more,

clearly the big gubmint is fucking us, the proud factory workers of Nowhere, Indiana. Only Trump can fix!

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>>8753007
>>8753017
Page 11 also has this one.

>>8753041
>electoral system
That's just it. We're not a democracy, we're a democracy of 50 STATES, and those STATES determine who the POTUS will be. Go back to 8th grade civics class.

>>8752928
>So why shouldn't the government be involved in religion as well?
Because it's against the 1st amendment. The country was founded on being out of religion because those founding fathers were running from the British Empire which was enforcing anglicanism

>>8753049
>Because it's against the 1st amendment
not an argument

>>8753046
I know how the electoral college works, you fucking idiot. The effective function of the electoral college is a vote multiplier for states with low population, which basically means rural states nowadays. The vast majority of economic activity takes place in America's major cities, but the electoral college is designed so that rural America has a disproportionate say in the country's future. It is fucking stupid.

>>8753046
What kind of logic is this? He never said the word democracy. You literally started an argument by repeating the guy's post.

>>8753050
How stupid are you? The 1st amendment specifically prohibits the government from many ANY LAW in respect to the establishment of religion, as well as no laws impeding one from practicing their religion freely.

Are you underage or something, of a non-American, how can you not know this?

>>8753050
That is a 100% valid argument. Why should the government violate your rights and overstep its boundaries art in place by the constitution

>>8753052
>triggered
Then if you know how it works you have no reason to complain about muh rural states. Either dissolve the Union into simple federal republic with no states, or shut the fuck up.

>>8753057
>>8753058
>governments should function in this way because this specific one made it part of their constitution centuries ago

>>8753066
Yes that is how our government is structured you dumb fuck

>>8753071
>is is ought
you're clearly the dumb fuck here

>>8753066
I'm continually astounded at the stupidity of /pol/-crossposters. Never ceases to amaze me.

>>8753063
>Then if you know how it works you have no reason to complain
What the actual fuck?? Are you for real? Go back to your safe space you special snowflake cuck shill etc

>>8753075
>/pol/-crossposter
nope

>>8753075
/pol/ updates their beliefs to go along with whatever candidate is more against the SJWs and minorities at the time.

>>8753052
It's not Trump's fault that HRC was an absolutely horrible candidate that couldn't even make it across the finish line with the MSM and everyone literally dragging her rotten corpse. She completely neglected the blue wall states (WI, PA, MN, and MI) and thought muh minorities in FL were all she needed. WRONG. The electoral system heavily favors the Democrats, but when they lose they immediately cry about it being a terrible system like little sore loser brats.

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>>8753082
Totally

>>8753082
>The electoral system heavily favors the Democrats
post proof

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>>8753084
Oh hypocrisy game, my favorite!

>>8753082
> The electoral system heavily favors the Democrats
No it doesn't. It allows republicans to win even when they get fewer votes because red states are overrepresented. Democrats have an advantage in the popular vote because there are more of them, but republicans have an advantage in the electoral college because their supporters are more spread out geographically.

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>>8753084
Omg Trump said he might not accept the results! REEEEEEEEEE

>>8753073
What? I didn't wrote what you quoted read again faggot

>>8753090
So, you're agreeing that both sides are corrupt and hypocritical then?

>>8753094
>what's greentext

>>8753090
Salon wasn't running for president.

>>8753090
Not saying you can't complain but your accusations only went one way. Just setting the record straight. Everyone complains about a system when it doesn't favor them. Accusing Democrats of that specific thing makes you the asshole.

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>>8753086

>>8753082
>The electoral system heavily favors the Democrats, but when they lose they immediately cry about it being a terrible system like little sore loser brats.
The electoral system is designed to favor rural America. Democrats can ONLY win a presidential election by winning the upper Midwest. There is no alternative to this. However, the upper Midwest basically invented the Reagan Democrat as a thing, so it's not as if these states are a lock for Democrats. It doesn't matter whether you win California by 1 vote or a million - the Upper Midwest and Florida determine the election every cycle. The Northeast and West Coast will always vote for the North/Yankee party, which is currently the Democrats. The Deep South and rural mountain West will generally vote for the South/Confederate party, which is currently the Republicans.

>>8753099
non sequitur

>>8753095
Of course, everyone is a hypocrite. Never said Trump hasn't had his share, but HRC was just as bad. Pro TPP then anti TPP? Come on man.

But seriously, why is Trump cutting the science budget when he can just print money? He has said as much. Isn't this a form of Jerb Destruction?

>>8753086
http://www.theblaze.com/video/democrats-relished-the-electoral-college-before-election-but-sour-on-it-now/

>>8753103
Honestly, I don't think anyone debates whether HRC was corrupt or not. Literally everyone on 4chan hates her, whether left or right wing. It's a given. Criticising Trump doesn't remotely imply support for clinton, at least on 4chan.

>>8753100
>so it's not as if these states are a lock for Democrats
WI, PA, MI hadn't gone red since the 1980's, nice try

>>8753107
not proof that the electoral system heavily favors the Democrats

>>8753112
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/how-the-electoral-college-favors-democrats-and-why-republicans-must-change-it/article/2549447

>>8753107
>theblaze
>reporting about something everyone does but saying it only applies to Democrats
>thinks butthurt-ness is evidence
>not addressing the argument at hand
>no analytics of the electoral college system

You are the worst kind of person. Clearly not /sci/ and 100% /pol/

>>8751947
Is there not pork in the NIH budget just like any other budget?

>>8752796
>I could care less how good or bad his policies are, I want him to fuck shit up.

This is like the worst case scenario for democracy as a system

>>8753113
so why has the republicans won the elections where the electoral college and the public vote went differently?

>>8753115
See
>>8753113
I know the truth hurts and having lost the argument all you can do is cry "/pol/" despite the fact I never go there.

>>8752836
WHO

EXACTLY

>>8752796
>I'm so mad about SJWs
>dude just destroy everything lmao
Democracy was a mistake. I've literally never met a single SJW in real life, why do people think they are everywhere?

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>>8752683
>Morgan on a Zakharov board

REEEEEEEE!

>>8753118
This is what happens when you have less than 50% of people voting. The people who just want to fuck things up are a bigger percentage of the votes, so they can actually do real damage. Compare the US to the Netherlands, where their version of Trump went down to defeat. He talked the same talk, and had the same people who voted for him just as a protest vote to fuck things up, but in the end it wasn't enough. Why? Because the Netherlands has more than 80% voter turnout.

Another reason is that it isn't just a first-past-the-post two-party-only system, which also contributes to the higher turnout since voters can actually vote for people they like.

>>8753120
I actually do read all sources presented to me. Your Washington examiner article is also 100% non-analytical. This is their argument:

>They haven’t won California, Illinois, Michigan, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania since 1988. Those states are worth 183 electoral votes. Thus, the Democrat likely enters the 2016 election with a base of 242 electoral votes.

That's why they say it favors Democrats. Because more people vote Democrat...

Straight up democracy favors Democrats even more because they still win the popular vote when they lose the election. You have to show how the electoral college further swings things in favor of Democrats beyond just they Democrats win more often these days.

>>8753120
The Washington Examiner was a tabloid turned magazine, and is conservative politically. What is your point again? You can't just say "BUT I WON THE ARGUMENT!" Sorry, you don't get to declare yourself the victor when you're clearly not.

>>8752836
>Rich doesn’t mean elite, and elite doesn't mean rich
You have to be pretty "blue pilled" to not see the connection between being rich and being powerful.

>>8753120
The article you linked said that the electoral college is unfair and favors democrats because some states usually vote for democrats. It listed Pennsylvania as one of them, a state that in reality helped deliver Trump his victory despite losing the popular vote.

>>8752635
*fedora tipping intensifies*

>>8753123
That's not a problem with democracy. In a democracy, those people get drowned. The problem is that the US is a shitty excuse for a democracy.

>>8753121
The Democrat-Republican party. Schumer, McCain, Pelosi, Ryan. Those are the political elites. There's also power holders and puppeteers behind the scenes.
>>8753123
Have you been to a college/university in the last 20 years?
>>8753124
Based Alpha Centauri. Excuse me while I go get my recon rover.
>>8753127
I did win the argument, I'm sorry my intellect is superior to yours.
>>8753130
Trump still had 286 EV w/o PA. Try harder.
>>8753132
*tips MAGA hat*
>>8753129
Blue-pilled, wow, excellent terminology there.

>>8753135
Right but the people from Goldman Sachs, one of the biggest financial institutions in the world are different?

>>8753120
A single tabloid article claiming something doesn't change the fact that twice in the last 20 years the electoral college has given the republicans a victory even when they lost the popular vote. As a system, the electoral college has demonstrably favored the republicans in both 2000 and 2016.

>>8753135
> Trump still had 286 EV w/o PA. Try harder.
Notice I said
> helped deliver Trump his victory
It wasn't the only state to go for Trump, but it did help him.

>>8752683
>You ivory tower intellectuals must not lose touch with the world of industrial growth and hard currency. It is all very well and good to pursue these high-minded scientific theories, but research grants are expensive and you must justify your existence by providing not only knowledge, but concrete and profitable applications as well.
America has a comparative advantage in cutting-edge industries like software, finance, and biotech from its university system attracting the best talent from around the world, or at least it will until Trump and friends make foreigners uncomfortable by stirring up rural resentment. They're already shooting fucking Indians because they think they're Muslims.

This has not really created employment gains for poorly-educated rural Americans, though. We used to have them work in factories, but now we have China for that. You could try to set a tariff on Chinese goods, but then you could get into an actual war with China, which also needs to deliver jobs to dumb people to maintain legitimacy. There are simply not enough jobs for dumb people to go around in the world with satisfactory pay. Why are we blaming scientists for this?

>>8753135
>Have you been to a college/university in the last 20 years?
Yes, I did my undergraduate in math and physics and grad work in physics and graduated last year. Maybe they're just all at Berkeley, I don't know.

>>8753145
> Maybe they're just all at Berkeley, I don't know.
I was at Berkeley a bit less than a decade ago. You could probably find them if you went looking, but I didn't so I didn't have to deal with it.

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>>8753135
>Blue-pilled, wow, excellent terminology there.
That's what you are.
A "blue pilled" faggot.
How does it feel to be a "blue pilled" faggot, faggot?

>>8753135
Those damn educated people. What do they know??

Btw there's a difference between actively fighting for social justice up in everyone's face and just wanting everyone to be treated fairly. The 2nd one doesn't make you a SJW. People are so afraid of that they are literally becoming actively against any strive toward social justice aka Nazis.

Resources exist to be consumed. And consumed they will be, if not by this generation then by some future. By what right does this forgotten future seek to deny us our birthright? None I say! Let us take what is ours, chew and eat our fill.

>>8753149
I think you would have to go looking in the "Studies" departments to find them, but why would you ever bother going there as a scientist?

>>8753157
If you have to actively look to find them, then are they really an omnipresent problem?

>>8753160
>If you have to actively look to find them, then are they really an omnipresent problem?
That's what I'm saying. But apparently they cause reactionaries a great deal of mental anguish on a daily basis.

If we don't start pouring more money into meme research the whole fucking planet is going to die dood!

>>8753165
>muh meme research
How about cutting humanities funding instead of the NIH?

>>8753165
Honestly, I'd settle for meme research if it was a choice between that and even more military spending. Seriously, the US builds tanks and then just leaves them sitting out in the desert because the military doesn't actually want them.

>>8753175
Or you know they actually sell them to other countries.

>>8753175
As far as I know, you can't really outsource tank building, and the Trump administration needs to create jobs for rural, poorly educated Americans. Upping the military budget to churn out more tanks, ships, and so on makes perfect sense strategically for the Trump administration. It's a waste unless they plan to have a war with China (an even bigger waste), but at least it will create Jerbs.

>>8753178
What, like Saudi Arabia and Iraq?

Don't we want to stop funneling arms into these areas?

>>8753179
That's literally welfare, ironically.

>>8753181
Who is "we"? Arms manufacturers don't.

>>8753181
Israel buys them too along with NATO allies and many other countries.

>>8753187
Actually it's called patriotism when the government creates jobs with military spending, you fucking bluepilled liberal cuck.

t. typical Trump voting retard

In all seriousness, a huge portion of Americans are basically on a form of welfare in the form of military jobs, who can't realistically be integrated into the economy were it not for the military.