How does /sci/ feel about Trump cutting funding for research

Kind of expected for any republican candidate. The republican party is EXTREMELY anti-intellectual

>>8720153
A bunch of triggered /pol/tards are going to shit up the thread from here on, but conservatism is literally anti-intellectualism and close-mindedness at its core.

that will show those tree huggers. yea who cares if some animals extinct and then crops die and a whole bunch of poor ppl starve (me) and then icecaps melt releasing more co2 in a runaway feedback loop. trump is a billionaire he will be on mars by then

>>8720156
Going too far in either direction on the political spectrum is anti-science.

People who think this is only targeting climate science have no clue what the NOAA and EPA actually do.

>>8720153
But at the same time a bunch of red states rely on NOAA to help predict tornadoes, yet the proposed cuts would hurt that too.

This is what those dumbass scientists get for voting democrat & pushing agendas

>>8720160
Yes, but liberalism is the default setting for humans, it's not a counterpoint to conservatism. Both SJWs and /pol/tards need to fuck off though, two sides of the same shit coin.

Over the years they've become a partisan and bureaucratic agency, not a scientific one. Hopefully this will get them back on track.

>>8720164

Not that anon but while I'm not in favor of Trump or the Republicans actions what choice do they technically have at this point?

Everyone knows the two biggest programs is social security and defense. If they even so much as look at those two wrong they will literally burst in flames from the sheer political fallout.

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they start cutting public education programs next just to make sure they don't have to entertain the idea of cutting spending from social security and defense.

Which I suspect is possibly the plan in the near future.

>>8720144
a lot of the shit NSF funds is utter bullshit, too.

>>8720220
I would think they would at least start with stuff specifically targeting blue states. Like with the hurricane Sandy relief spending bill. Republicans tried to block that because it would give disaster relief to blue states, but they've always been fine with disaster relief when it's for red states.

>>8720224
A lot of stuff the defense department funds is utter bullshit, but they're getting a 10% increase in funding for new weapons systems.

>>8720236
anything funded by DOD is far more likely to have some use than the psychology/sociology/anthropology shit funded by NSF.

>>8720236
Even the worst waste in military spending at least generates economic growth and good manufacturing jobs. When NOAA wastes money, it's a total loss with no productive result.

File: giphy.gif (428KB, 500x320px) Image search: [Google]

428KB, 500x320px

>>8720144
Shit... I worked in a sea grant program during my undergrad... my bros are g-going to be...gone?

>>8720243
>Even the worst waste in military spending
you have no fucking clue how bad the waste is.

t. POG clerk

>>8720243

>Even the worst waste in military spending at least generates economic growth

You are mixing two complete opposites on the same sentence.

If it is a waste, then it can't possibly be called part of the ''economic growth'', since that's not what economics is about.

>and good manufacturing jobs

Maybe? I am sure you aren't entirely sure of this either, so why say it? Because it is what intuitively would happen?

>>8720240
Most of the stuff funded by DoD will literally never be used. Hell, some of it never even comes into being in the first place. Sometimes you see an idea that gets bandied around, gets some money thrown its way, but never actually materializes.

The Pentagon is the single largest bureaucracy in the world. The amount of money it wastes on a regular basis dwarfs the entire budget of an organization like the NSF.

>>8720240
The Pentagon was recently found to have wasted more than $120 billion due to inefficiencies in its own bureaucracy and how it deals with defense contractors.
The NSF's entire budget is $8 billion.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/pentagon-buries-evidence-of-125-billion-in-bureaucratic-waste/2016/12/05/e0668c76-9af6-11e6-a0ed-ab0774c1eaa5_story.html

The pentagon wastes fifteen times as much money as the NSF gets in the first place.

>>8720259
So? That's just because the defense department's budget is bigger, which is fine. Defense should take priority over something like the NSF. It doesn't matter if you've got lots of funding for your science project if you get beheaded by ISIS. Once defense is fully funded, then you can start worrying about the NSF.

>>8720264

>Once defense is fully funded

Define this.

>>8720247
>t. POG clerk

okay then, you're not in the military

you're role playing as a soldier and opinion discarded.

OP is talking about darpa and lockheed, not your annual stapler and printer allowance you fucking joke.

>>8720266
When we don't have to worry about foreign enemies coming into the country and killing American citizens.

>>8720278

>When we don't have to worry

I don't know dude. I dont think anybody serious about this worries to the point that they need to fund asap the development of a new fighter jet or the creation or more carriers.

Perhaps you are over exaggerating your claims?

>>8720153
>Democrats
>Spend billions on niggers
>They're the intellectual ones

Fuck off, faggot. AGW is a fucking scam and Trump will kill it just like he'll kill the Mestizo invasion. Go back to your containment board known as Reddit.

>>8720175
Uh, racism and extreme ethnocentrism are the default setting for humans if you'd care to look at any non-first world country. The fact that you post these obvious counterfactual statements on a "science" board is testament to the shittiness of 4chan.

>>8720289
> I dont think anybody serious about this worries to the point that they need to fund asap the development of a new fighter jet or the creation or more carriers.
The American people disagree, they voted for Trump precisely because they felt that the establishment wasn't doing enough to keep them safe and that the government needed to be focusing more on its core duties like defending the nation and its borders instead of coddling Washington bureaucrats.

>>8720300

>racism and extreme ethnocentrism are the default setting for humans

Can you prove this? Not asking you to show me, as if you were asking witnesses during a case to back up your claim, I am asking YOU to prove this in a way a person who (like you) claims to know the optimal state of the Human soul would do.

>>8720259
> The Pentagon was recently found to have wasted more than $120 billion due to inefficiencies in its own bureaucracy and how it deals with defense contractors.
And the dims waste more than $660 billion on welfare every single year. And that's just at the federal level. At the state level they waste another $280 billion a year.

>>8720307

> I am asking YOU to prove this in a way a person who (like you) claims to know the optimal state of the Human soul would do.

...

holy fuck, how does it even occur to anyone to make such a retarded request?


What I am doing is simply stating that humans have an inherent distrust of other races (Hell, even of other ethnic groups) which is evidenced by the countless racial and ethnic struggles that have occurred since history was recorded.

>>8720153
Didn't Clinton cut down on research funding and Bush increased it?

>>8720347

>holy fuck, how does it even occur to anyone to make such a retarded request?

So you can't. Good to know.

Any man who can't back up their claims (more so one as bold as the one you made) should probably stay away from making baseless opinions on the matter and try to do some personal growth, studying and thinking.

Just for the sake of informing you (as it is my duty to show you the way), the statement you made (that which concerns the optimal state of the human soul) has been going since the times of the Greeks such as Socrates.

I guess they didn't think it was retarded to request others to define what they meant whenever they boasted of knowing of these matters while resorting to questionable rhetoric in which they based everything they said on opinions instead of reason.

A good place for you to start is with Plato's Republic. And, when you're done, you should read Platos dialogue on rhetoric to get a good overview of what you are doing right now and why you shouldn't.

Next time don't let ego / arrogance get in the way and avoid insulting those who refer to you (preferably when they just asked you to explain your reasoning).

File: 1343086199728.jpg (28KB, 500x376px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 500x376px

>Let's make America great again by undermining our technological advantage
How can Trumpfags possibly justify this?

>>8720385
liberal bureaucrats doing makework is not a technological advantage

>>8720385
NOAA doesn't contribute anything to our technological advantage.

>>8720292
Human caused climate change will fuck us up whether you believe in it or not

>>8720385
>memepic
>being retarded but thinking everyone else is
yep what we have here mates, is a libtard, tread carefully not to make quick movements and trigger the delicate little flower and scare him away.

>>8720410
Climate changes, the idea that you can keep everything set in stone just by taxing it is absurd. Trying to stop the climate from changing, which it is going to do no matter what you do or think, with big government is what will fuck us up.

>Friday night
>all the /pol/acks start shitting up boards outside their quarantine zone

Hmm really makes you think.

>>8720534
Was /sci/ ever good? I only recently started posting here regularly, and it's truly shit right now. Were there better times in the past before the last election?

>>8720538
Good? Not really. But it was a lot better than this.

>>8720538
Not really. Nowadays we have /pol/tard climate denial threads, 2 years ago we had multiple qualia and consciousness isn't real shitstorm threads every day

only the form has changed

>>8720144
Best news I've heard all day.
Funding for "research" isn't being cut. Funding for liberal cuck meme science is being cut. Those are two different things.

>>8720144
Fake news, who cares?

>>8720538
I've been posting on /sci/ since post numbers had 4 digits. It, like most of 4chan, has never been "good", but it was a fuck load better than it is today. A few years back posts like >>8720634 would be fairly rare, today they seem to be every other post.

Yeah, the quality has gone down hill over the years.

>>8720292
>The six million dollar food stamp is too expensive!
>*proceeds to raise millitary budget by 54 billion*

>How will be have the money to fund public schools?
>*proceeds to cut taxes for the rich*

The conservative movement in the United States is anti conservative.

>>8720264
you fell for the fear. you dont have a rational mindset.
you are more likely to commit suicide than be killed by someone else (war, terrorism, crime, all included)
your chances of dying from overeating/diabetes are way higher than dying of starvation.
the greatest way to increase american quality of life would be to decrease sugar intake.

isis is not coming for you bro.

stop living in your lizard brain.

>>8720512
yes climate changes
not typically on the timescale it is currently changing
countless societies have disintegrates because they ruined their ecosystem. easter island, the fertile crescent, etc.

i hope you dont vote.

Conservatives have never been environmentalists, relative to Obama's policy of course there are going to be reductions here

why is anyone surprised

>>8721582

to add, if you're going to create a party that is mostly conservative with environmental elements you can sign me up

but as it stands I'm not getting in the same camp as insane globalists, SJWs, and statists

>>8721502
what's the point of feeding people that contribute nothing? letting them starve is more beneficial. if you want them alive you can feed them yourself.

@8721593
This is bait, poor bait at that. So poor in fact you aren't getting a (You) off of me.

>>8721502
also, schools are funded through property taxes. way to out yourself as a worthless leech.

>>8721593
Complaining six million dollars is too much to prevent people from starving is like fighting over a piece of bread on ground over a homeless person. Also it just makes you look bad.

>>8721598
The real leeches are banksters, oligarchs, and their socialite heirs. But society has brainwashed you to believe that they contribute to the economy somehow. My ass they do. Money comes from work. How are you contributing if you aren't doing any work?

>>8721797
how are you contributing? by having subsidized income, housing, and food? they'll pay more taxes in a year than you'll in your whole life.

>>8721813
>Perhaps these incredibly rich folk can shoulder more of the tax burden than the poor folk.
>WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU? A FUCKING LOW PAID NIGGER LIVING IN SUBSIDIZED HOUSING

This is why political debate is becoming impossible. Group polarization is a real thing.

>>8721838
>dodging the question
so are you a teenager or just a welfare leech?

>>8721860
I'm a different guy, but if you're curious I had a job for a while, got board then went back to university.

>>8721877
ah, yes, the eternal student. how could i forget that one!

>>8720564
aah yes, "scientism" threads

>>8721813
I have a job and I work everyday. Are you telling me that oligarchs work 100,000 times harder than me?

>>8721882
lol internet.

>>8721888
if he doesn't work harder than you then what's stopping you from becoming an oligarch?

>>8721838
>political debate
the most import issue for the new conservatives is race
actually, the only issue

fighting the "white genocide", that's the prism through which they look at the world

>>8721928
how delusional do you have to be to accuse others of the very thing you do? i know that the prerequisite for being a leftist is mental retardation, but still.

>>8721905
>He still believes in the American dream

My son, people in the United States are not born with equal opportunity, a rich kid who gets his education from a private school and has the money to go to university without shouldering debt will have a massive headstart over you. While you work at Wal-Mart over the weekend because you have to pay your rent, the rich kid is starting businesses and pulling ahead and his kids too will be far ahead of your kids.

>>8722117
why didn't your parents work harder to provide you with those opportunities?

>>8721791
> Complaining six million dollars is too much to prevent people from starving
If those people contribute nothing of value, then one dollar of taxpayer money is too much. If you want to keep them alive, you can give to charity. But don't force the rest of us to waste money on your shitty virtue signaling project.

>>8722313
People need to stop applying the term "virtue signalling" so broadly. It's not some buzzword to talk down everything that tangentially has to do with morals.

Makes you look like a layman appending "quantum" to arbitrary terms.

>>8722554
> It's not some buzzword to talk down everything that tangentially has to do with morals.
No, but it does perfectly describe the garbage that the left spouts to try to show off how "progressive" they are. Limousine liberals love to pretend that they're somehow champions of the downtrodden because they support handouts for unproductives. And of course they ignore the actual working man who they tax into poverty in order to pay for those handouts. It is virtue signaling. They're just mindlessly spewing their liberal dogma in order to try to make themselves look good.

>>8722568
Virtue signalling exists within literally every community, so it is no big insight that there are leftists that do it. I could, however, as easily show you many cases of virtue signalling among the right. In fact, /pol/ is full of it.

But that's actually irrelevant. Even if it was true that prevention of starvation through higher taxation would lead to poverty among the working class, that wouldn't have to be a case of virtue signalling. Instead of their supporting such taxation being an "ignoring" of the interests of the working class, it might as well be an calculation that regards all citizens but gives preference to those most in need (seeing as literally starving is worse than being poor in the first world), or it might plain be a disagreement on the facts.

>>8720307
> Yes, but liberalism is the default setting for humans

Can you prove this? Not asking you to show me, as if you were asking witnesses during a case to back up your claim, I am asking YOU to prove this in a way a person who (like you) claims to know the optimal state of the Human soul would do.

>>8720374
Wouldn't a better place to start be science? Particularly considering this is the science board?

You know, like all those scientific studies showing how the average person has strong in-group preferences, and generally dislikes, and is often hostile towards out-groups. A reasonable inference from which would be that humans are naturally racist/ethnocentric. A reasonable inference which is supported by a significant amount of scientific evidence showing people often for in/out groups on the basis of superficial characteristic, such as the appearance of other people.

>>8722138
You're putting the blame on something no one has a choice over... who birthed them

>>8722620
except starving those who don't work is not worse than forcing those that work into poverty.

>>8722671
Well, that's, like, your opinion, man.

the_dude.jpg

>>8722652
then why are you putting the blame on those born into wealth? they had no choice over it, why should they be punished for it?

>>8720264
>the defense department's budget is bigger, which is fine
No, it is not "fine", friendo.
>if you get beheaded by ISIS
Try not to let your fear of the bogeyman over-ride your ability to reason.

>>8722644
Science also shows that the ingroup and the outgroup can literally be defined by anything, even something as banal as the colour of the hat you're wearing, which is why those preferences can be made to be very inclusive (or exclusive) and it isn't set in stone for people to be super hostile based on arbitrary trait X.

>>8722117
>>8722652
Communists are adorable.

>>8720144
A terrible, terrible waste. Especially when he's jacking up the defense budget. It's not like the defense industry is churning out innovative new things anymore.

But it will create jobs for Real Americans instead of funding Chinese conspiracies, so I'm sure it will be popular.

>>8722676
That's one retarded opinion. Equalizing opportunities isn't exactly punishing anybody.

>>8722699
Not everyone who disagrees with you is a communist.

It's also pretty weird to call those two "adorable" (connotation: naive) when they were the ones holding a bleak outlook ("there is no parity of chances right now") while arguing against an idealist position ("everyone in American society has the absolutely same chances to succeed").

>>8722716
>Taxing the lower, middle, and working class followed by massive tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations
>Equalizing opportunities
Do you even listen to yourself, or do you just close your eyes and let whatever garbage you were forcefed spew out?

>>8722732
Since when do liberals or any left leaning parties tax poor first? Last I checked we had the whole progressive tax thing.

>>8720144
into the new dark ages.....

srsly, funding for military goes up, funding for research gets cut... the age of enlightenment is ending

>>8722735
> Since when do liberals or any left leaning parties tax poor first? Last I checked we had the whole progressive tax thing.
They don't, they tax the working class. The poor get a free ride on the backs of the working class, while the rich pay lawyers to get out of having to pay taxes. So the whole bill that liberals run up to coddle the unproductive with endless welfare programs gets forced onto the working class.

>>8722755
Are you sure about that? How is it "massive tax cuts to the wealthy" either way if it's apparently them always dodging them? Last I checked it was some Republican that cut the taxes for the wealthy.

How come such highly taxed countries like Sweden, Norway, Germany, Denmark etc have such good upward social mobility compared to the USA?

>>8720144
Extremely worried. I'll be graduating with an ecology degree and a gis certificate in a year.

Long term at least if he destroys the environment then I'll definitely have employment after his term.

>>8722751
if you weren't a massive sensationalist retard you'd know that the military gives sizeable research grants. the lab i work in received over a million dollars for 3 years from army and air force plus a few hundred thousand for equipment. this is a small lab with a total of 3 phd students.

>>8722763
Because
1. No diversity (at least not during the period of the studies that I'm aware of), and
2. Very few licensing laws. The cost of regulation prohibits anyone in the US from opening a business who doesn't have at LEAST $300k, and that's in Delaware.

>>8722772
>1. No diversity (at least not during the period of the studies that I'm aware of), and
The all powerful magnet for USA's wrongdoings - black people.

So how about you start doing your homework and show a trend of taxation decreasing social mobility or increasing the poverty %. Also apparently nobody in Sweden dodges their super high taxes.

>>8722770
So, what's the percentage of military funds that goes into maintaining and buying of equipment and paying of soldier wages versus the percentage that goes into military research?

Would there be more research if those military funds just straight went into civil research, rather than having the middleman of the military?

If 1 billion of overall research got cut, and then 0,2 billion flowed from that into military research, there would still be a sizable decrease.

>>8720512
see https://xkcd.com/1732/

>>8722770
and does your research make the world a better place? or are you trying to be the next oppenheimer?

>>8722788
of course there would be more research. more research that promotes racist recruitment methods and bullshit psychology or other pseudoscience studies. when my adviser was seeking a grant from NSF he had a whole section in the proposal about minority roles in the lab and minority outreach.

>>8722795
maybe once you're no longer in high school you'll release what research with those type of funds entails. i'll tell you that it definitely makes the world a better place than posting idiotic comics made by, and for, pseudo intellectuals.

>>8722815
so, what kind of research are you doing for the military?

>>8720153
They know that people stop being Republican when they get educated. It makes sense for Republicans to keep the masses ignorant and afraid since those people always vote for the big strong guy who keeps the scary dark people and gays away.

>>8722827
fuel research

>>8722785
>the all powerful magnet for the USA's wrongdoings
What is 'wrong' with having lower intelligence?

It's simply unrealistic to expect the US, with its vast intellectual diversity, to have the same social mobility as Sweden, which, until recently, was extremely homogenous.

>do your research
I have done my research. Do yours

>>8722763
> How come such highly taxed countries like Sweden, Norway, Germany, Denmark etc have such good upward social mobility compared to the USA?
Homogenous societies are vastly superior to diverse ones. You get a sense of community that encourages people to contribute instead of sitting back and leeching off the productive people like minorities do in the US.

>>8722834
care to elaborate a bit on that?
any publications?

>>8722829
t. freshman in psychology and proud feminist

>>8722829
> They know that people stop being Republican when they get educated.
Only if you count a worthless gender studies degree as an "education." People who actually know how the world works are universally conservative.

>>8722840
no, i don't. there are three that have been recently submitted.

>>8722815
>of course there would be more research. more research that promotes racist recruitment methods and bullshit psychology or other pseudoscience studies.
...And more research that you would like, simply because those fields you don't like aren't the only ones that get funded in civil research.

Psychology is also not a pseudoscience (by definition), even if people like hating on it. There's plenty of proper, rigorous psychological research, and problems the field has due to dealing with much more complex and chaotic matter than physics, like reproduction problems, are widespread in any field. The problems I guess you would likely mention are much more present in fields like medicine.

By the way, the US military literally paid for real pseudoscientific research like Psy-research (telepathy and shit), so there's that. It happens there, too.

>when my adviser was seeking a grant from NSF he had a whole section in the proposal about minority roles in the lab and minority outreach.
Do you think private contractors or government centers for research that deal with the military don't have those?
You'd be wrong.

>>8722851
aha, how does your military "fuel research" make the world a better place?

>>8722847
Ah, yes, for anyone who is not Republican, the only option is a gender studies degree. Clean coal sure is great. Haha, yeah, fuck that natural gas noise. Burn that shit. Niggers.

>>8722863
Can leftist shit make any sort of argument that isn't a straw man or another fallacy?

>>8722851
in which journal will the papers appear?

>>8722719
It's adorable because of two reasons.
1. Calling the American dream dead then saying the American dream is wrong because children of parents who worked their asses off and took risks all for the sake of giving their children an easier life shouldn't be better off than children of parents who didn't. If you or anyone else doesn't agree that parents should be able to give their children the best life they can afford, then you're not in agreement with the American Dream.
2. The idea that any better form exists out there is false until proven otherwise. Western society is not your lab rat.

>>8722865
Yes. I'm not the one who implied that self-proclaimed leftists only get
>>8722847
>a worthless gender studies degree as an "education."
followed by an implication that Republicans are (universally)
>People who actually know how the world works are universally conservative

I'm a new anon, anon. I'm not even leftist by name, I'm just left of standard, modern-day Republican right. I don't know what argument I'm supposed to really be making against
>the above

"Muh leftist shit scum! Damn dirty liberals! Faggots!"

hey "fuel researcher", ever heard of the baloney detector?

>>8722873
>1.
What you said could literally be reposted by the other guys to counter your own argument.
There isn't a disagreement in values. There's a disagreement in methods.

/pol/ needs to fuck off.

File: IMG_0011.jpg (22KB, 393x336px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 393x336px

>>8722890
There is some disagreement in values. Liberals have a much narrower morality in general

Sorry for the shorty quality, just look up "the righteous mind", which explores the graph related in depth

>>8722834
where did you get your degree in "fuel research"?

>>8722860
>>8722867
>>8722885
what's the matter faggot? mad that i'm not going to let you dox me, like you shit for brains like to do? let me guess, you wanted to spend the rest of your weekend trying to find out who i am and then spamming my adviser about my "racist" comments?

why don't you post what you have published so far, kiddie?

File: IMG_0007.jpg (317KB, 890x1024px) Image search: [Google]

317KB, 890x1024px

>>8722903
Yeah. As someone who generally agrees with /pol/, the standard of discourse cultivated there is painfully low.

Pic unrelated

>>8722910
Hi, I'm also a brilliant genius with over 500 publications and over 20,000 citations, but I'm not going to give you guys any details! I'm totally not making up anything I say you have to believe me 100%! Hah! Got you suckers! I win!

>>8722906
I actually read Haidt and don't dispute that.

I was specifically talking about the other two posters.

>>8722922
i'd like to be the first to commend you on your beautiful straw man.

>>8722910
you made claims so the burden of proof is on you. period.

to make it easier for you :
do you have a degree in "fuel research" or in chemistry? what uni?

>>8722644

You seem to not know what science is.

Like him, I advice you to research those works I listed. I assure you it will do you good.

If you are the man I was talking to, the man I requested to explain his reasoning, you confirm yet again that you had no idea what you were talking about.

If not, go on and kindly take my advice.

>>8722922
Nice deflection of his question. If I had to guess from both of your posts alone, I would say that the other anon is an actual fuel researcher and you're an angsty Green Party undergrad

>>8722927
i stated a fact and then answered the related questions, at which point you obsessively made 4 replies to the same post trying to get more details on who i am that have little to do with the original post.

what have you published so far?

>>8722934
nice try deflecting my question:

again : what does it take to become a military fuel researcher?

>>8722934
and btw: yes you stated "facts", or to be correct: you claimed something. i wanted proof for your claims. you refused. i won.

>>8722941
>>8722946
what have you published so far?

>>8722931
>>8722925
I'm not even the guy he was responding to.

Anyone claiming they're something on /sci/ that is unwilling to give a speck of truth to what they say should fuck right off, because no one gives a shit unless you provide actual proof.

>>8722950
what have you published so far?

>>8722950
that was not the question, again you claimed to be a military researcher. burden of proof is on you.

if your claimed fuel research compentence is on par with your reading compentence than that tax money would be better spend in gender studies.....

File: .png (50KB, 1360x768px) Image search: [Google]

50KB, 1360x768px

>>8722951
proof of what, that i'm a phd student? that's neither impressive or unusual, especially on /sci/.

proof of my work? there's nothing that can be posted that wouldn't reveal who i am/where i work since all government grants can be searched for.

File: 1488685649682.png (2MB, 2036x619px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2036x619px

>>8722906
> Liberals have a much narrower morality in general
> implying liberals have morality beyond bending over for Jamal