Being as unpolitical as possible, is a concrete wall along the

>>8605068
Is it practical? No. It would be enormously expensive and accomplish little beyond JOBZ.

It's certainly possible, however.

>>8605068
Practical as in effectual? Because if you can cross the desert then you probably can manage to bring a rope and ladder with you.

>>8605075
Not even jobs, by the time it's built automation will have taken over

>>8605068
Better just to annex the joint, give the Mexicans a proper education and some birth control, move farther south to a more natural choke points for the wall.

It could be done but even then, they will just burrow underneath or go around it in a boat. It's like putting a band-aid on a gaping sucking chest wound at this point.

China did it. Israel did it.
Of course it's effective.
Only problem is the PR and fund.

There's some pretty rugged and remote spots along that border. Getting crew and equipment there will be the opposite of practical.

>>8605068
A part wall, mostly fence is what you are going to get, and it will mostly be practical and certainly possible.

>2000 miles


"no"

>>8605068
A physical wall will never happen, but a virtual surveillance "wall" will almost certainly be a thing. Perhaps in the next 4 years.

Drones are cheap and can cover a lot of ground.

>>8605068
Putting a wall up along a border is a practical project. Even chinks did it a long time ago without all the fancy tech. It costs quite the bit but design is pretty simple.

As for politics and stuff walls are good for stopping people only when manned nowadays and there is no hole anywhere else. USA's problem would be legal arrival and then overstaying or going through the coast. Fence hopping even now is a pretty shitty idea

>>8605113
>>8605090
It took literally 1500+ years to build to the Great Wall of China.

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No. Just try building a wall across pic related

>>8605117
just populate that shit with gators and piranha. problem solved.

>>8605068

I thought there was 0 chance that he would actually persue the project (since it is so impractical), but then I was thinking...


It is any easy way to give tax money to his cronies.


I still do not think he will do it, but, if he does, I bet you the project will be shady af.

>>8605177
>tax money
*Mexico's money

>>8605187
there are not enough pesos in the world

besides, even Mexico isn't cuck enough to pay for it.

>>8605084
mexico also has a problem with illegal immigration, though.

>>8605090

The Chinese great Wall required a shit ton of time, and the Israeli border is something that falls more along the lines of blocks a few meter tall and it doesn't cover all Israeli borders.

>>8605068
Mexican cartel are notorious for being crafty and stubborn. A wall won't stop them, only bullets will.

>>8605116
>>8605247

Hello? Modern technology. That's weak argument.

>>8605255
No, it isn't.

If you think it will take less than 8 years to build a 2000 mile wall when it takes literally a decade to build certain skyscrapers, you should kill yourself.

>>8605255
>Hello?

Reddit

>>8605262
Moving goalpost.

>>8605262
You absolute cretin. You have no idea what you are talking about.

>>8605117
Obvi-fucking-iously, the wall won't have to be built over natural barriers.

>>8605297
>Obvi-fucking-iously
What the fuck

>>8605275
>>8605288
Not an argument.

>>8605300
He's from Reddit's /r/the_donald, ignore him

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>>8605109
They already attempted this exact thing. It cost a hell of a lot of money and didn't actually work

>>8605079
You can bring more than a ladder

>>8605068
Liberals should love it. Creates jobs. It's a government project. It employs low skill labor. What's not to love libs? kek

>>8605116
Nope.
There have been several walls of China.
They have been rebuilt, renovated, and built on top of one another.
There have also been modificationso to the original one, as Chinese settlers kept going North over centuries.

The most recent one, and the one that tourists always see, is the Ming wall.

>>8605075
Thank God the Mexicans are paying for it!

>>8605075

it would save more money per year than it would cost to build.

8-12 billion is not that expensive.

there literally isn't a simpler structure and we're very good at making them. i'd be very surprised if a good construction firm couldn't bang out an amortized 50+ miles per day.

walls are also highly effective. there are almost no examples of modern nations building walls to keep out undesirables and the walls not working pretty damned well.

>>8605105

will take less than a year.

>>8605191

mexico doesn't have a choice. use your brain. american remittances and aid to mexico is more than enough to pay for the wall. hence the panic and riots and plummeting peso in mexico - mexico basically doesn't have it's own economy, it's just an extension of our own.

>>8605262

10-12 months from the first concrete pour to the last. maybe 14-16 if a season proves unfavorable.

the wall is getting built, and it's going to come in on time and under budget. it is going to be effective, and 12+ million illegals will be deported.

>>8605363
>muh 12 gazillion illegals

>>8605366

i'm not sure what your post is trying to communicate. could you please clarify?

>>8605363
Screenshotting this post to have laughing material.

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>>8605363
>it would save more money per year than it would cost to build.
??

oh right, because welfare. hurr.

>10-12 months from the first concrete pour to the last. maybe 14-16 if a season proves unfavorable.

how ridiculously optimistic is this. congress couldn't have oversimplified it better.

back to /pol/

>>8605311
pic related

>>8605369
just how you screenshotted all the trump will win posts?

>>8605363
>illegals cost the USA 12 billion per year
gonna need sauce for that

They stopped construction on the border fence when they realized it was a boondoggle, a wall is going to be even more expensive. It's extremely rough terrain too and there's no way they can follow the exact border line meaning that we are either annexing Mexican land or putting American citizens on the wrong side of the wall, cutting hem off completely. Not to mention the ecological impacts of such a project and shitting on Native American treaties and sacred sites that are scattered all down there.

>>8605377
there is no sauce, illegals pay taxes (yes, they do, isn't that amazing?) and are one of the few net providers to the welfare racket. it's unemployed blacks and their white trash brethren that are a drain on the system.

>>8605369

lots of people did that when people said trump would win the election, too.

>how ridiculously optimistic is this. congress couldn't have oversimplified it better.

exactly what the fuck are you going to tell me about surveying, plotting, digging, and then welding reebar and pouring concrete? i would be glad to hear it.

>back to /pol/

back to /lgbt/ i guess? not sure what you're trying to prove here.

>>8605377

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/illegal-immigrants-cost-us-100-billion-year-group/story?id=10699317

let me google that for you.

hell, there's probably 12 billion lost in single sectors such as prison alone.

>>8605393

gonna need sauce for that.

furthermore, the issue isn't entirely monetary.

we should eject or enslave the illegals simply for having broken the law and being here illegally. it's a matter of principle. the fact that it'll prove to be a major bonus for our economy is just that, a bonus.

>>8605113
>Fence hopping even now is a pretty shitty idea.

this is just so fucking underrated. have you informed yourself about the major part of the Mexican border looks at this very moment, right fucking now?

the point isn't that a wall isn't going to stop people who want to come over, it's that a wall would be little to no better than what we already have.

>>8605393
>and are one of the few net providers to the welfare racket.
LMAO

hispanic immigrants percentage wise use more welfare than even blacks. their whole point of coming to the US is literally to siphon money out and send it to mexico.

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>>8605397
>i can't use google
FTFY

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/undocumented-immigrants-and-taxes/499604/

please read before replying, i estimate it will take about 10 minutes, maybe more if you're from /pol/.

>http://abcnews.go.com/Business/illegal-immigrants-cost-us-100-billion-year-group/story?id=10699317

>The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), a conservative advocacy group that favors tighter immigration laws, argues that the answer is clear: illegal aliens cost U.S. taxpayers more than $100 billion each year.
yeah, i'm sure this was a totally impartial assessment

back to /pol/

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Why do people always compare a US border wall to the great wall of China? There is like literally no comparison. That was in the 13th century before cars and paved roads and the Mongols still went AROUND it.

>>8605090
China's wall was built over a span or centuries which connected previous walls. Mongols just bribed a guard to open the gates.

>>8605406

http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/sorry-but-illegal-aliens-cost-the-u-s-plenty/

do some research for yourself, if you don't believe bi-partisan experts.

eliminating all illegals in the united states is 100% a great idea.

>>8605363
>>8605397
i get your point on
- feasibility
- practicality
- effectiveness

however you're overly optimistic on all of those, plus
- cost of the project
- timeframe of the project
- benefit of deporting illegals

i'm sorry, but it's not going to cost just 12 billion and it's going to take longer than 10 - 12 months. 50 miles a day is ridiculously optimistic; that's ridiculously optimistic for unproblematic territory, which you will not have along the entire border; not even the majority of it.

unless, of course, you're talking about reinforcing the current structures, as opposed to building a completely new one. in that case, 12 billion and 12 months is feasible, although the time frame is still optimistic.

>>8605421

>>/pol/

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>>8605428
>>8605421

>tfw /sci/ can't even do simple math

>>8605406
>Alexia Fernández Campbell is a staff writer at The Atlantic, where she covers immigration and business. She was previously a reporter at the South Florida Sun-Sentinel and the Spanish-language newspaper of The Palm Beach Post.
>The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, a Washington, D.C., think tank, estimates that about half of undocumented workers in the United States pay income taxes.
>Tanya Gonzalez, the executive director of the nonprofit Sacred Heart Center in Richmond, Virginia, organized the first federally-funded, bilingual tax-assistance program in the region
lmao

are you really so stupid to do the same thing you accuse someone of doing? worse yet, the entire article focuses on nothing but the benefits and either mentions any """negatives""" in passing or not at all.

>>8605068
F*** Barry Hussein Obama and all his liberal cronies who LOVE muslims, anti-Americans and trans-gender pervets! MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!!!!

>>8605422

you don't need walls where natural barriers exist, which is over 600 miles of the border, and some areas don't need as much wall as other areas.

in all likelihood the only 'fuckhueg cyclopean 75 foot monster wall' sections will be the major border crossings. where they will have the strongest effect... in stopping people from crossing over illegally? no, in letting the world know that america is not the same as the rest of the world.

i actually said, 'from the first pour of concrete' would be 12-14 months. the surveying alone will take 2 months, etc. but once it's ready to be thrown up, these sorts of structures go up very, very, very fast. there are quite a few firms in our country that have it down to a science.

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>>8605421
Maybe illegal people make less becuase they are the only ones willing to do the chepest jobs nessary to grow that lettuce to fed your fat face.

But sure throw out billions of taxdollars and cheep NESSARY labor out the door, who needs food. OP'S question its possible, but not ethical or sustainably long term. Basicly shit breaks, and people would just buy ropes and latters.

>>8605453

>But sure throw out billions of taxdollars

They already are by supporting every single government policy that applies price control on every single industry that should die out in a free market environment (agriculture, for example)

>who needs food

They certainly don't need to make that food themselves. But I guess we should ignore every single sign that we are using our scarce resources the wrong way and keep growing all of this unnecessary crops because ''Muh merica strong'' than importing goods because, apparently, that's bad.

>>8605453
farmers are already getting enough subsidies. they don't need slave labor, too.

>>8605262
You have zero metrics to back this statement up. The government building a wall =/= a private organization building a sky scraper.

The U.S. was building the Panama Canal in 1903 and finished in less than ten years, and to add, they lost a large percentage of their work-force from Malaria. The Hoover Dam took four years in the 30's.

Do you really think it will currently take longer than 8 years to lay down some slabs for 2000 miles?

The wall is estimated to use ~7 million cubic meters of concrete, but the Three Gorges Dam was built with ~16 million cubic meters of concrete and only took nine years to build.

Based on projects using similar amounts of concrete, the project would probably take less than four years to build. America would just use imminent domain to capture the land.

>>8605463
Secondly, certain areas where building the wall would be tough wouldn't need to be walled off.

You'd just build your border patrol hubs around that area to easily capture people who actually attempt to tread across these dangerous areas.

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Of course it is.

In all likelihood it will not be 100% wall, but a wall-fence combination.

>>8605453

don't condone slave labor and then talk about ethics. living wage or something?

we already discussed the 'taxes' they pay. they take much more than they pay, and they're less intelligent; these are not asians.

we lose vast amounts of money on them to make food a little cheaper while making government expenditures a LOT more expensive.

>>8605363
Mexifag here, you are a retard.

>mexico doesn't have a choice. use your brain. american remittances and aid to mexico is more than enough to pay for the wall. hence the panic and riots and plummeting peso in mexico - mexico basically doesn't have it's own economy, it's just an extension of our own.
The riots have nothing to do with the wall and everything to do with corrupt government + oil privatization (gas prices are insane in Mexico right now as a result).

NAFTA mutated Mexico's markets in a way that was negative for Mexico. Now that there is talk of getting rid of NAFTA the people are afraid that given all the changes to Mexico it may no longer be able to cope without NAFTA. Mexico is far more concerned with the US getting rid of NAFTA than they are about the wall and this still has nothing to do with the riots.

>walls are also highly effective. there are almost no examples of modern nations building walls to keep out undesirables and the walls not working pretty damned well.
Do understand that the problem isn't that simple. A large proportion of the "illegal immigrants" from Mexico are actually out of status non-immigrants who entered on other visas and overstayed. These people enter the country legally by plane or at a land border crossing. A wall does nothing to them and it is the choice more and more people are taking because paying a coyote to cross you through the desert is not only dangerous it often involves extortion and human trafficking (ICE is the least of your concerns if you've found yourself in that situation).
The people a wall will affect are
>people who get scammed by coyotes
>drug/human traffickers
>cartels
But even then the effect isn't as great as it should be given that the Stratfor leaks revealed that the CIA was cool with getting the cartels through and letting them operate in the US (including carrying out assassinations) in exchange for advancing the CIA's other agendas.

You may note proceed to kill yourself, retard.

>>8605404
You have to prove you have legal status to apply for welfare. The biggest group of welfare consumers is whites, though when looking as a percentage of the respective populations there is a disproportionate number of blacks on welfare.

Where did you get your facts, the toilet store?

>>8605363
lmao
>make mexico pay for it
if you think a foreign nation on the brink of depression is going to pay the richest nation in the world for an impractical wall you must be retarded enough for me to send you money and qualify for donation to an autism charity.
you funniest thing is that not only am laughing right now because america elected Trump but wait till he have to explain to the American people that they have to shell out 10 billions out of their own pocket.

>>8605591

>on the brink of depression

Why do people tend to say things they are not entirely sure are true?

>>8605068
I'd like to see a border-long force field, but that's not yet practical.

>>8605502
In all likelihood It's going to be 0% wall and ~30% fence aka not much more than what we have now. In the vast majority of places where it is practical to build a fence, a fence already exists. The most Trump will probably do is spend a few billion polishing up what we already have and maybe lay down a couple hundred more kms of fence for show after which he will call it a day and fuck off to go brag about how great the work he did was.

He also may or may not give Boeing a few billion dollars to burn on a "virtual fence" which will prove just as much a waste of time and money as it was when Bush told them to do it.

>>8605428
Heritage Foundation is a conservative think tank. Their papers are trash. They conveniently apply obviously incorrect assumptions when making estimates in order to inflate estimates. Stuff like in some cases adding assumptions about immigrant households compared to normal American households but removing said assumptions from other calculations simply because doing so would offset the overall calculations in their favor.

>>8605435
>Work in a certain environment.
>Write about it.
IT'S A CONSPIRACY!!!

kys yourself.

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>>8605463
>The Hoover Dam took four years in the 30's.

One dam took 4 years. kek!
You actully think this supports your argument? Lol indeed.

Try thousands of miles, drumph already claimed he could make it 30+ ft high. Are you even trying anon. We all know its possible but it is not reasonable

>>8605297
Mexicans can just boat to the side

>>8605538
>they're less intelligent
Lol pol come on try harder, you can't fool me with your bullshit

>>8605068
Yes

>>8605591

mexico doesn't have a choice. we can strangle their nation until they're starving and dying.

>>8605708

are you seriously, for one second, say with a straight face that it isn't true?

they're a dirty breed. we don't want them here. we don't need them here. so we're going to make them not be here.

>>8605718

>>>/pol/

>>8605718
Pol please. We all know you fight on a emotional level, not a logical one. But hey whatever

>>8605726

that's not an answer. you can't solve all your problems by blaming them on pol. you can't continue to hide forever.

>>8605735

>please

>we all know

>but hey whatever

pol is more logical and rational than /sci/.

>>8605738

Can you prove it? :^)

>>8605718
Nigga are you for real? If anyone is less intelligent it's /pol/. They are a dirty breed and we don't want them on /sci/.

Hiroshima Nagasaki, where is our wall!!

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>>8605090
>china did it
>of couse it's effective

Does anyone else read /pol/ as "Paul"?

4chan is conditioning me to irrationally hate people named Paul.

>>8605422
>unless, of course, you're talking about reinforcing the current structures, as opposed to building a completely new one.

Which, I question the effectiveness of those structures, especially given there's a lucrative black market and a network of tunnels for smuggling and trafficking across the border.

>>8605736
>>8605738
These be some high emotional IQ posts right here. If you touch the post you can actually feel the puddle of tears surrounding them :^)

>>8605762

>especially given there's a lucrative black market and a network of tunnels for smuggling and trafficking across the border.

I wonder how a new wall is going to fix those!

>>8605762
Not really a network, more like a bipartite graph.

>>8605751
maybe reddit will be more to your liking, faggot?

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>>8605461
Are you acting like food is an unimportant "reasorce"
Clearly you dont know what your memeing about.

And you even want to get rid of price control for "muh free market" so you want to get rid of the only thing thats safeguarding sellers from raising bread prices like how apple raises iphone prices.

Your not putting 2 and 2 together. You think america can just import 100% of goods is sustainable? What about food. What happens if a country cuts off trade? Now you ain't got no food. God you trumpets dont think before you speak.

But hey man, whatever.
Remeber, latters and ropes, latters and ropes........

>>8605777
You don't think any of the tunnels have connections to each other?

>>8605793
Not that guy but kill yourself, /pol/nigger.

>deport illegals
>price of food quadruples when farms are forced to hire american labor to work less hours at higher wages
>cost of living shoots up everywhere as other businesses are forced to raise prices

Enjoy your malnutrition, brainlets.

>>8605773
Considering they're tunnels whose exits/entrances are far from the actual border and ridiculously difficult to find, that's a good question!

>>8605816

WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT ALL THESE IMAGINARY TUNNELS

>>8605793
Fuck off, Paul.

>>8605809
That would be a pretty dumb way to build in redundancy from government investigators, wouldn't it?

>>8605090

China got MONGOLED.COM, and you can only consider Israels separation barrier effective if you don't mind the occasional Hezbollah kidnapping or Palestinian hit and run.

>>8605828
>build a complex tunnel you need to familiarize yourself with to navigate
>unauthorized individuals who try to use it get lost like someone wandering off in ancient catacombs

I think it could work for some.

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>>8605805

I don't think you understand economics 101. But based on what little I know I'll give you an explanation.

>you want to get rid of the only thing that's safeguarding sellers from raising bread prices like how apple raises iphone prices

Sellers don't ''''''raise''''''' prices out of ''''''greed'''''.

Prices, more than a number, reflect a reality of whats really going on. Be it excessive supply or demand, in the end, such principles are there because there's an inherent scarcity to human resources. Be it water, land, phones, you call it. There's just simply not ''enough'' to please everyone needs.

In a free market economy (our economy, most of the worlds economy), prices are what runs the show. Not the big men at the top of the Nation making economic policies (which are what tend to fuck everything up in the long term). And, guess whats the most important thing prices tell us? How to use our scarce resources efficiently.

Now, your argument is entirely wrong. What safeguards bread sellers from not raising their prices is competition. Not price controls. Same with Apple, or any phone company, or any company that produces something out of something else for the people.

>You think america can just import 100% of goods is sustainable? What about food.

Yes. America can import as much food as she needs and, guess what!, it will also be cheaper.

You need to research on the effects of price controls on an economy. They may sound good on paper, but its been proven that they are not.

Extensive research has been done on the subsidies placed upon the agricultural industry. Do you know why they are there right?

Because at one point farmers found out they just couldn't keep selling their goods and still be competitive, so they were trading at a loss. Then the government starts to subsidize them, buying their overproduction, leaving it or storing somewhere else (maybe to rot) so the Farmers keep overproducing.

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>>8605856

Cont.

In reality, here's whats really happening. You, the consumer, are paying inflated prices for goods produced in your country when they could be imported at a way cheaper price from other countries that would be benefited by this mutual exchange.

Which is why it is ironically that you complaining about ''bread sellers raising their prices'' when it is the very nature of such price controls that keeps the prices high.

Prices also does to us a marvelous, although sad, job of getting rid of those who waste scarce resources. Those who aren't competitive enough, waste too much, and choose not to adapt go bankrupt. This helps everybody, because it prevents a country from being shackled to a corpse.

What subsidies to agriculture are doing is to keep alive all of this unnecessary farming infrastructure. Instead of keeping just whats needed and whats essential. Because (and you can research this) they are way overproducing things that aren't even being used and just placed in the world market to sell.

>What happens if a country cuts off trade?

Countries cut off trade? Damm, good thing you aren't in any government seat. Yet...?

>God you trumpets

I am not a trumpet. Not even American.

>>8605397
>enslave

what you mean to say is
>assign community service
ACS their asses. Then their necks.

>>8605836
Not really, there are bots built specifically for navigating and mapping tunnels. The older ones use partially observable Markov decision processes together with other AI techniques. Newer ones probably use machine learning techniques as well. At any rate the older ones I've seen are super effective, this thing you're suggesting is a non-issue.

>>8605856

>lets rely on others for our food!

lets not, and, instead, fix the actual problem.

for christsakes america could tolerate eating less. subsidies are why cheap junk food feels like a better idea than real food. a little bit of hunger and restructuring of our agricultural industry would do us good.

and that's beside the fact that the situation itself is artificial and results from inept leadership.

>>8605867

yes, actually that is what i mean. i didn't literally mean whips and cotton.

>>8605873

>lets rely on others for our food!

You are not. You are missing the point entirely.

You are just getting rid of the farming infrastructure that's not necessary. Why is this so hard to understand?

>>8605880

mexicans?

>>8605873
it would be more satisfying to see them whipped tho. Not as a fetish, but as an example to all who dare scale the border and infest these lands.

>>8605883

Oh wait, you are that one poltard aren't you?

Silly me. I was trying to have a rational conversation. This is entirely my fault.

Godspeed anon.

>>8605887

you were not trying to have a rational conversation.

>>8605885

i'm more concerned with raising a populace who wouldn't care if people who were not their own were whipped, than the whipping itself. i think the policy and modern side effects are sufficient to strike fear into those who would transgress.

>>8605812
maybe america will stop being the fatest nation on earth then.

>>8605462
We should raise wages but its about willingness to do work for what is still considered cheap labor. White americans just dont want to pick lettuces all day in new mexico/Arizona's hot sun getting burnt for min wage. They will then sue companys for "not supplying workman compisation" aka sunscreen and "emotional stress"

Companys dont wanna deal with that
So they hire who's willing to do the work.
Also subsides are for a year a farmer can't sell becuase of overproduction supply and demand so they are nessary so fsrmers dont just quit becuase they can't make money when they can't sell.

>>8605068
Yes

>>8605856
>>8605856
>Sellers don't ''''''raise''''''' prices out of ''''''greed'''''.

Actully thats exactly what sellers do, thats why there is a price control for agriculture. Same reason why we dont want monopolys, they can change the price at any time and they have noone to awnser to or compete with... but I digress

The same way apple raises cheap phones for 500+ the same way how any company wants to hyke up the price to the highest prices possible. There is a reason why we have price control. Its nessary. Your "free market" is not sustainable. Without some guidence. It either gets overflowed with overproduction or overpriced by greedy monopoly people

>>8605927
>free market is not sustainable because apple charges too much
don't buy overpriced shit maybe? if people but it at that pricepoint it's because that's what it's worth (to them), if not more

>>8605930
>don't buy overpriced shit maybe?
Doesn't matter with no price control thats what happens.

Companys are greedy, and people are sillystupid. You think people will only buy what "worth" to them, imagine how much people will pay for the food the NEED. Could you imagine how much a loaf of bread can be hiked up? Its not just something people want its what they need, they will pay whatever price is put becuase its "worth".

A completely unhinged "free" market is unsustainable.

Even if you did build it, which is certainly possible technically, if not feasible economically, where the fuck are you gonna get the people to watch a 2,000 mile wall? Because if you're not watching, walls are very easy to knock down. You can tunnel under it, you can tunnel under it to undermine it and make it collapse, you can blow it up with all manner of high explosives easily made or obtained, and you can build lots of different kinds of things that will get you over it.

So sure, the concrete could be poured. But it's going to need 24/7 patrolling which would either require the creation of an entirely new giant government department, or a massive expansion of an existing one like Homeland Security.

Give the Republican line on government spending, I'm not sure they could get the appropriations bill passed to build the wall, much less man it.

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>>8605927

>Actully thats exactly what sellers do

Wrong. Seller don't just '''''do'''''' this. Those who are smart stick to competition and those who do not come face to face with the harsh reality that (WHO KNEW?!) people tend to buy more at a cheaper price.

>thats why there is a price control for agriculture

No.

I don't want to sound condescending, but I don't think you understand what a price control really is.

Be it in the form of a ceiling (as to prevent prices from going up) or a floor (as to prevent prices from going down), a price control is a limit put in place by politicians who, more often than not, push these policies by appealing to the feelings of the people, without knowing much of the implications of doing so.

The price control on agriculture is of the ''floor'' type. Its preventing prices from going down when they should. Encouraging overproduction and growth of crops at a excessive rate because there isn't any incentives for farmers to stop doing so (water is subsidized, overproduction is bought from the government, etc).

Ironically. When there's a ''ceiling'' those who produce tend to not do so. Because there's simply no incentives for them to produce at a loss. This leads to crisis, hunger, you call it (And you should research it)

>It either gets overflowed with overproduction

Which is exactly what the price control on agriculture is doing (you would instantly know this if you had bothered to at least google it).

>Your "free market" is not sustainable

Its been sustainable for... a couple hundred of years if not more. You think the ''free market'' is a inherent quality brought to us by a capitalistic system? It's not.

>>8605068
Totally doable. It's estimated to cost about $20 billion.

>>8605684
nice b8

>>8606086

Not an argument.

>>8605075
>accomplish little

lol no. It would accomplish a fucking lot.

>>8606094

Like...?

>>8605590

Have you ever even been to your local social security office? You should, you'll see for yourself a waiting room full of Mexican and every bit of paper work and every poster in Spanish.

But to deconstruct your argument, no, in many cases cases illegals just get their benefits through the children they shit out. Any baby born here is entitled to welfare, and since their Mexican parents are their legal guardians they're in control of the money they get. They also get things like WIC through this loophole. On top of that, it's extremely easy and common for illegals to steal identities in order to apply for welfare. There's pretty much no vetting at social security offices, so any illegal can show up with a fake SSN and claim their John Brown and the person processing their request will shrug and pass them the Spanish disability claim form. And the you have certain states that don't even require proof of citizenship, and basically just give shit away for free or give illegals special documents to use. It's fucked.

You're very naive and know nothing of what you're talking about. Illegals are cancer.

it's kinda nice to see all the /pol/acks in this thread instead of shitting up the board with climatespiracy bullshit.
we should have more threads like this for that express reason

>>8606107
>their request will shrug and pass them the Spanish disability claim form. And the you have certain states that don't even require proof of citizenship,

Give me 3 states min
>>8606113
A containment thread cus they won't stay on their containment board, clever.

>>8606123

http://cis.org/sites/cis.org/files/Sanctuary-Cities-Map-121316.png

There's a whole map for you senpai

Having a regular drone force would be far more effective, cost-effective, as well as terrifying

it would probably reduce the amount of people who even wanted to try down to a small fraction of what it was

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>>8606107

they act as if they're emotionally detached and logical, but that's just their ego. they've absorbed the message that if they think wrong thoughts, they'll get in trouble. they're not wrong, you know... they have this big song and dance about science and evidence and source? and 'facts' and gb2 pol, etc etc etc.

but when it comes down to it, they do nothing but try to score points with an imaginary crowd that supports them, which represents their conception of the gregarious masses who would rip them to shreds if they knew what they were thinking wasn't approved by bill nye and neil degrasse tyson.

they'll take things that a pretty much obvious to anyone with any sort of grounding in the world around them and repeatedly make questions about 'evidence' for such things. of course, it's hard to imagine what evidence would look like. and in any case, they have plausible deniability on just about anything. they can just refuse to acknowledge any source or evidence, while vehemently denying you any right to question the things they're saying.

they do not speak in good faith. you can argue about anything i've said, and say, no, i don't do that, i do so and so, but this is the crux of my argument. all that i have said aside, they do not speak to you in good faith. they have no interest in speaking to you. they have made up their minds on which social group to align themselves with, they have no doubt that all of reality must confirm their beliefs, because they're not just special snowflakes, they're special snowflakes in the approved and right way. and they have more than enough carrots and sticks from their peers to make any sort of alteration for the sake of truth psychologically impossible for them.

>>8605068
https://youtu.be/Mc_4Z1oiXhY?t=30m50s

>>8606128

Not an argument?

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>>8606107
>On top of that, it's extremely easy and common for illegals to steal identities in order to apply for welfare. There's pretty much no vetting at social security offices, so any illegal can show up with a fake SSN and claim their John Brown and the person processing their request will shrug and pass them the Spanish disability claim form.

Thats actully bullshit, its not easy to steal ssn, they dont just pass you through. Heck to get my lisense no... my PERMIT I needed 3 different forms of ID that MATCH. They dont just wave you through.

Also welfare are "disability claim forms" are completly different things.

You do need citizenship to get welfare anon, even if you could do it with just SSN thoes dont just fall from the sky and prior to your preconceptions, its not taken lightly.

Although its a good post anon, most people dont bother to shift though a wall of text to point out the bullshit you have posted. Next time pol try to post a image next to it so its not such an eyesore to look at.

>>8606133

????

You asked for states. I showed you a map with not only states, but also counties and individual cities.

>>8606139

it's different in different places.

ie sanctuary cities.

welfare comes in many forms, such as public education and police and paramedics.

there's no valid argument that concludes with allowing illegals to remain in this nation. the only successful result of appropriate and just government action will be the deportation of every last illegal.

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>>8606128
That not answering my question

My question is >>8606123

Btw isn't this thread about a unfeasible wall?

>>8606148

no, it's a thread where the two sides of our society bare our teeth at each other behind 5 or 6 pretenses.

>>8606139

If it's not easy why is SSID theft the most common form of identity theft in the US?

The DMV and Social Security are different agencies that work under different departments.

Disability falls under the category of welfare in the US.

No, you really don't.

>>8606148

You didn't ask a question, you asked for states, and I gave them to you.

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>>8606144
>welfare comes in many forms, such as public education and police and paramedics.

Wow you really are grasping at straws now. You threw away your whole point to just make a leap of faith and group in "everything" as wellfair.

Bravo, but sorry it does not qualify as wellfair. Wellfair is money alloted by the gov to individuals whom are unable to support themselves. If its not money to an individual (whom needs to be a citizen) its not wellfair.

Btw off the top of my head, everyone has to pay for their own paramedic ambulances and thoes costs. Irregardless of citizenship.

>>8606166
No you gave me citys of an unrelated (possibly inaccurate) infograph

>>8606169
>Btw off the top of my head, everyone has to pay for their own paramedic ambulances and thoes costs. Irregardless of citizenship.

That is incorrect. ER and EMTs have to service people in need and will bill them after the fact, if they can't pay they oftentimes simply don't and it becomes a cost for society.

>>8606169

it wasn't ever not included in the entire argument.

you introduced that hair splitting.

like i said, people on /sci/ pretty much just play stupid. they don't speak in good faith.

participating in these 'discussions' has to be taken philosophically.

>>8606169
>Btw off the top of my head, everyone has to pay for their own paramedic ambulances and thoes costs. Irregardless of citizenship.

you sweet, naive summer child.

>>8606161
>the "driving agency" has more security than the "social seccurity agency"

Nice try polack. You think im retarded.
I have a friend who was kicked out of the own apartment reccently. We spoke about what was needed becuase they applyed for welfair and sure enough just like the DMV they needed your SSN and 2 forms of matching ID.

Its not so easy anon, we have protocals like this for a reason.

>>8606173

Cities that protect and enable illegals isn't relative to a discussion on how illegals are protected and enabled? Lol okay.

>>8606169

>Btw off the top of my head, everyone has to pay for their own paramedic ambulances and thoes costs. Irregardless of citizenship.

You can't squeeze blood from a turnip, especially one that gives you a fake name and address or just flat out refuses to pay. MY goodness, you really don't have much experience with the world, do you?

>>8606175
>and will bill them after the fact
You already awnsered your own question.
>>8606177
Not an argument
>>8606176
Not an argument

>>8605068

Why is it the ancient Chinese could do it?

>>8606179

And did you happen to ask them what to do if you don't have those forms of ID? Besides, like I said before, illegals steal SSID all the time.

>>8606185

It's a bill. They don't pay it. Or it goes to a false address or person. Of course the only argument against actually enforcing rule of law and your border and immigration policy is entirely a meme so your response is par for the course.

>>8606185

>not an argument

back to /pol/, molynieux

>>8606194

isn't it funny?

they literally argue that we should allow millions of people to break the law.

>>8606184
I asked for states that you claimed.
Not citys.
>>8606184
Also, its still not welfare.

>>8606189
>And did you happen to ask them what to do if you don't have those forms of ID?

If you dont have the ID you dont get it.

>Besides, like I said before, illegals steal SSID all the time.
Yea like you SAID. Not prove, just your word.

>>8606200

First of all, you don't need to quote the same post twice.

The map has states. Please refer to the map key.

What isn't welfare?

>>8606208
Yea, but you cant name thoes states for some reason. Hummmmmmmmm?

>>8606200

cities exist in only one state at a time.

and yes, it's welfare, any way you cut it. welfare isn't a legal term. it's a word that simply means, 'charity on behalf of the state'. which public schooling, police, and the samaritan laws that force hospitals to treat mexicans whether they ever get paid and driving up prices for americans.

>>8606210

this is the level of the guy we're talking to.

>>8606194
I've worked in the ER
You can't leave unless they can PROPERLY identify you. If you won't coroperate we just call the police and they arest you. Happens all the time for people who want to stiff the bill.

>>8606212
Actully it is a legal term

>>8606215
Sooooooo Tennessee?

>>8606215
And this is the level of people you are agreeing with>>8606212
The good samaritan law is there to protect first responders and volunteers that render life saving assistance from being sued for stuff like assault and battery.

>>8606200
>I asked for states that you claimed.
>Not citys.

fucking kek, this is the dumbest comment I've read in a long time.

>>8606228
Soooooooooo Alabama?

>>8606226

because the only possible way to accomplish this would be to treat illegal mexicans. right. why didn't i think of that.

>>8605177
>shady af
>af

kys nigger

>>8605191
I hear they plan to freeze money transfers from mexican immigrants to mexico which supposedly brings mexico $24bn / year, thus forcing mexico to pay up or lose this $24bn /yr.

>>8605075
it isn't practical at all for a literal 2000 mile wall. existing fence will either be reinforced, or left alone. and those areas where a fence or wall is not feasible will still be guarded like they are now.

>>8606207

How do you know that?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/04/world/americas/04iht-id.2688618.html

>Most are working under fraudulent Social Security numbers, which can be bought in any immigrant community or Mexico

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/30/irs-doesnt-tell-1-million-taxpayers-that-illegal-i/

>
Victims’ numbers are stolen by illegal immigrants who need to give employers a valid Social Security number in order to get a job. Employers are prohibited from probing too deeply into numbers, even when they suspect fraud.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2016/04/13/irs-admits-it-encourages-illegals-to-steal-social-security-numbers-for-taxes/#7bb4e0d4237a

> We also learned the IRS ignores notifications from the Social Security Administration that a name does not match a Social Security number, and you use your own system to determine whether a number is valid.

These are just some examples of illegals stealing SSIDs and the connection between the government, illegals, and identify theft, and I would encourage you to research the topic further.
>>8606210

Are you color blind or something? California (of course), Oregon, New Mexico, Colorado, North Dakota, Connecticut, and Rhode Island.

>>8606218

Under what law do the police arrest these people?

>>8606238

Not an argument.

>>8606238
>>8606207

i have worked in places that employ illegals.

they'll go away for a month and come back with a different name. everyone knows. they stay in 'temp' positions at the factory so they don't have to do as much verification, i guess.

but yes, the social security number system may seem impossible to break to white people, but that's simply because you haven't tried and your whole fucking country isn't based off of just that.

>>8606245

next you're going to say you were just trolling.

>>8606248

Same, this is why I have first hand experience of this stuff. I had many "Well you've been here for a while so here's all our real names and not the ones we stole so you stop being confused when we talk about Maria instead of Joann" conversations with coworkers when I was a teenager. Actually, funny story, one girl hit the jackpot and stile some stupid white girls who was literally named Coral. She fucking hated it so much.

>>8606245

How do you know it's not an argument?

>>8606269

lmfao

yes. i was confused initially why noey came back as jose on the schedule but we always just called him machete because he looked like that guy from the movie.

>>8605368
salt

>>8606207
>being this green
have you ever worked in a place that employs no-skill workers?

>>8606291

>have you ever worked

unlikely

>>8605068
its practical I guess in that it would keep shit out, it would also be an interesting project

its a stupid idea though considering the flow from the south has largely slowed and the cost-benefit ratio is probably abysmal. It would have been worth it like 10 years ago, best solution is just a better fence or something with more border patrols.

>>8606295
the flow having stopped would have been nice if they didn't breed like rats. they are, and will continue to be, the ethnic group with the highest birth rate in the US. i've personally seen plenty of solid blue collar white neighborhoods turn browner and browner with every given year.

>>8606304
slowed rather.

>>8606080
Definitely worth the money, and even considered low cost when you take into account the fact that Obama wasted 10 trillion dollars and got nothing done

>>8606107
>You're very naive and know nothing of what you're talking about. Illegals are cancer.
I was actually illegal for 20 years. I'm living (legally) in another country now, which is the only reason I'm talking about this now. It is not that simple, you are the naive cancer from a containment board.

Because social security numbers are used for identification purposes throughout the United States (many institutions even use the social security number as the primary key in their databases), it is possible for non-citizens legal immigrants to get special social security cards that are not eligible for work. However, what you're most likely seeing are people who were able to get a status and work permit through DACA as well as others who have been able to obtain a legal status by other means.

Moreover it is not so clear cut to steal an identity. It does happen but it's risky as shit because the IRS investigates that shit. Even then many government services require you to present an SSN alongside two other forms of ID (a list is provided and you're out of luck if you don't have them because said forms of ID have similar requirements to obtain).

In my time in the US I, like every illegal I only later found out about (thanks to DACA), lived completely under the radar. I worked, I paid taxes (this is probably the only time they won't care if your paper work is shady, i.e. SSN not applicable for work), I paid my way through university (no loans or scholarships because I couldn't prove citizenship for the FAFSA), I never once used any government assistance. As illegals we can't even get state ID's or driver's licenses. Not only how would we but why would we expose ourselves to that sort of risk by trying to scam the system.

no one is arguing that america should, or, rather, can, become a white ethno state, but by all means, legally and reasonably, it should stay pretty fucking god damned white, and that's something the government needs to be addressing. we appoint them to look after our interests. if they are not doing that...

then they're FIRED!

>>8606310

proof? evidence? source?

:^)

>>8606304
regardless a wall wouldn't have them fuck less, although that seems to be solving itself as their birthrates drop to normal.

Just deport the criminals (any crime at all, if they stay they better fucking behave better than the average citizen) and then let the rest sit and work unless they just aim to sit on their ass and collect welfare (as far as I know that's rare). Strengthen border security because its fucking embarrassing. They will assimilate eventually, many already are. Assuming Trump's administration can oversee manufacturing of some sort coming back (which it should) then the stealing jobs horseshit should be over. Also a policy of "Guys that were in before inauguration are fine as long as they work and don't commit a single crime are kinda ok, anyone who comes from this second forward is getting their ass kicked back to wherever they came from" would be nice

>>8606128
In general, sanctuary cities don't work like that. These are typically municipalities that have passed laws disallowing the municipal police from aiding the federal government in deportation cases. Basically federalism at work so that a dickhead cop doesn't start detaining people on a hunch because they care more about the federal government than their own community.

>>8606314
what i meant is that even though the flow might have slowed, the ones that come here will still shit out anchor babies. the ones that come here illegally are largely undesirables, so any kids they have are net negative on society.

also, deporting doesn't work as well as you think it does because they just come back.

>>8606317

>their own community

>dickhead cop enforcing laws

what the fuck are you even talking about?

it's the cops job to detain and process for deportment all illegals.

there are no reason that there should not be sweeps through mexican areas a la fallujah, checking the papers of anyone who gives any indication of having a statistical likelihood of being illegal.

>>8606317
Illegals will have to go back
And sanctuary cities will not get any federal money

>>8606322

better just roll over and let it happen!

either we deport the fuckers or 20 years down the road it gets to the point we're just exterminating them with terminal force.

that's what happens when you pull this cuck shit. the problem grows, because it is not dealt with, and the means of solving the problem just become more and more drastic.

>>8606322
I am 90% sure that after a generation their birth rates go normal, thats not a concern of mine

As for deporting, keep a database in order to identify repeat offenders, if they have been deported before just jail them

I know its more complicated then that I am purposefully leaving out details on how such a system would work, however it is definitelt feasible.

>>8606314
Ex-illegal here. I don't think many others would consider this unreasonable.

The real mistake would be to deport the DACA recipients. These are people who grew up in the US, many of them believing they were Americans until they grew up and asked their parents for their social security card to apply for a driver's permit. Not only do they identify with American culture but they have a number of requirements including a level of education and a background check that classify them as overall good human beings and better candidates for legal status than new incoming immigrants. Hell, many of them are probably more American than half these dumb /pol/esmokers. Not to mention the US has already invested a number of resources in them via public education (most countries provide this for minors regardless of status, if you're mad about this you're missing the point) so it would really be a waste to throw them out.

Of the people I know who applied for DACA: Those that got it are amazing human beings. I'm talking people who paid their own way through university while getting 4.0+ GPA's, have always led wholesome lives without ever being on the wrong side of the law, have always been active in the community volunteering in a number of things. Those that did not get it lie everywhere from mediocre harmless dropout to dumbfuck shithead who should've been booted years ago.

Disclosure: I'm not a DACA recipient, I foolishly left the country shortly before it was announced. A regret I'll always have because I will always consider the US to be my home.

>>8606356
I don't give a shit about DACA kids because as far as I am concerned most are pretty much American and they should stay EXCEPT for the little shits who gloat about being illegal in their retarded twitter posts. Those kids should be deported for being little shits.

Other than that it should be easy for DACA kids to become citizens as its extremely impractical to deport them. Everyone else is pretty much free game with high priority on criminals and fresh illegals, low priority on parents of DACA and DACA.

If illegals taking factory jobs that should be coming back in becomes a problem then I'd advocate for more deportations and requirements that would make it hard for illegals to get jobs under an employer.

>>8606326
Different levels of government have different police for enforcing different laws. A (typically constitutional conservative) ideal is that each lower level of government should have discretion over how to govern (the laws that are right for one municipality may not be right for another). This is how pot legalization works, it's illegal federally but legal at the state and city level. Thus state and city police do not arrest you for it but federal police do.

>>8606327
There are actually cities passing sanctuary city laws in response to those statements on the basis that they don't get very much federal funding anyways.

>>8605068
From a cost-benefit analysis I don't think it's a bad solution to issues on the US-Mexican border.

The estimated cost for construction+maintenance is 8 to 12 billion dollars, according to the Republican party, other (more realistic) estimates put it closer to around 25 billion. The logic is that if it can save the medical industry that in drug treatments, and can prevent the costs for illegal immigration services, lower the cost strain on border patrol, then it could potentially be an economically viable plan.
Now let's look at those factors.
1. The medical industry. Treatment for illegal drug overdoses and drug related issues (not even factoring whether or not these are based on Mexican cartels, or the impact a wall would have on them) are estimated at around 11 billion dollars.
Mexican cartels are also believed to push around 19-25 billion in narcotics every year. Given that the US has a some 200-750 billion dollar illegal drug market, that means that, assuming the statistics are proportional, anywhere from 3-12% of the illegal drug market is either based in, or travels through Mexico. The majority of the rest is domestic (weed, prescription abuse, local meth cooks, etc.), with substances such as cocaine based in good old Colombia. If we assume the higher end of this statistic holds up (which isn't unfair, many of the smuggling routes other countries use for substance imports are actually through Mexico) then we can run with a best case scenario where 12% of 11 billion dollars in our healthcare infrastructure can blame Mexico directly. This means around 1.3 billion annually (again best case scenario) is what the cost is on the US health services.

Sources:
>Cost estimates on wall
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37243269
>Illicit drug stats
https://www.drugabuse.gov/related-topics/trends-statistics
https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/drug-addiction/drug-trafficking-by-the-numbers/

1/?

I want it built just to see the expressison on your dumb American faces when they find laughably easy ways around your precious wall and you've spent fuckton of money for nothing. kek

>>8606322
Anchor babies are a meme.

1) A child isn't able to apply for legal status for the parents until said child turns 21.
2) When a parent is detained they still have to go through the normal process which typically means waiting years in detention before getting a court date. There is no guarantee that you'll be allowed to stay just because you have an American child. After all you've been in detention for years and your child is likely in foster care (there was an open letter posted a couple days ago by a woman at an immigrant non-profit in Mexico that mentioned deported parents who struggle to get their kids out of American foster homes). As such there is a lot of pressure to take a plea deal and be deported.
3) In many raid cases immigration doesn't even check for the existence of children before detaining and deporting the parents. One day a plant just gets raided and a bunch of kids go home to empty houses. This happened in my town (in the US). I volunteered with a non-profit to track down the American born kids, literally asking door to door, and raised money to get them flights to their parents in Mexico. We found over 100. I don't think it ever made the news though the raid was touted as a huge success.

TL;DR: anchor babies are a meme and you're a retard for believing in it.

>>8606374
1. (continued) With health services costing 1.3 billion in Mexican drugs every year, the hope is that this wall will lower the usage, say that it takes the pressure off by about half. That's a generous contribution, and for hand waving where we can go back and unfuck our fucks, that's alright. So say that it's a 650 million (note million, not billion) dollar savings plan on the health care industry. Cool. That helps a lot. It also benefits the health of our society. Double whammy.

2. Now onto the costs of the Border Patrol. The US has around 3,000 miles of border (around 5,000km) with Mexico. For this, the USBP is allocated around 13 billion dollars a year. Say that we're able to slash the budget by around 10%, as that money will be able to be put towards the wall's maintenance and staffing. Realistically, the USBP would likely see an increase, but operationally we'll say that it's a subtraction because it's going to be part of the staffing costs, but we'd be telling them how to spend it, so their current operations would probably take a hit (again, kind of hand waving, I don't know exactly what figure to use here, but we'll wing it). Either way, we're now able to toss another 1.3 billion into it every year. So that's cool. So with those two slots we're just shy of 2 billion in savings from current operations. Now onto immigration costs.

>Border patrol budget (page 44)
https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/FY_2016_DHS_Budget_in_Brief.pdf

2/?

So /sci/ is being shit up 24/7 by having
>Intelligent design threads
>Climate change denial threads
>Anti vaccination threads
>Flat earth threads
>Racial genetics threads
>Cultural accomplishments threads

Is this "Feasibility of Trump wall" gonna be a regular shit thread in /sci/?

>>8606406
well, no, soon the wall will proceed and we will have threads on the engineering and progress of the wall

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>>8606131

tldr; I'm alt right and this is what triggers me

>>8606375

>He thinks a wall will even be built

>>8606401
>>8606374
All of this hinges on the incorrect assumption that the wall will actually fix the immigration problem. Ignoring the fact that simply making a wall won't deport the illegals already in the country, have a look at >>8605538 .

>>8606311
Nazi germany plz....

America was never a "white" nation.
Go back to the Caucasian mountans if you want that.
>>8606313
You are at the end of your rope

>>8605068
It's not economically practical nor even practical at doing its intended job. But it is possible to build. If the ancient Chinese were able to build the Great Wall this should definitely be within reason.

However... estimates of cost could go over $10 billion which is stupid especially when you factor in the fact that a wall isn't even that effective at keeping people out. People already use ladders and shit to get over existing fences, tunnel under the fences, or just go around entirely by taking a boat. To make a wall work it would require loads of sensors and electronics spanning the entire length of the border that could detect potential crossers and alert border patrol to intercept them. That will increase the price of what is already a multi-billion dollar project dramatically. And of course you have to pay the salaries of border agents who need to be stationed every couple of miles or so to be able to respond quickly to a sensor activation. If you're going to go the electronic route then there is no point in even having a wall. It does nothing except present a minor obstacle that can easily be surmounted with a little thought.

In short a wall is a stupid investment. It just serves as a symbolic circle-jerk and the effect on immigration and drug imports will be negligible. There are better methods of border security.

>>8605363
>the wall is getting built, and it's going to come in on time and under budget. it is going to be effective, and 12+ million illegals will be deported

bait ignore

>>8606428
>If the ancient Chinese were able to build the Great Wall this should definitely be within reason.

alt right reasoning

To their credit, I guess it really is an alternative to being "right" : ^ )

>>8606422
I was going to get to that, actually. Problem is that immigration statistics are really easy to manipulate and there's thousands of fuckers out there who post web pages of strawmen and I couldn't find the information I really wanted. According to CNN, anyway, their net economic value is actually good for the economy. Of course that's mainstream media saying a few things. I don't know for sure if this is accurate or not. If it damages our yearly economic benefit from immigration, then we can treat it as a negative (or upkeep cost).

So far it's looking like it could be paying dividends in about 10-15 years time. I don't know if it's worth it or if it will help unfuck Mexico though.
>Source
http://money.cnn.com/2014/11/20/news/economy/immigration-myths/

Either way with the current best-case-scenario, without paying it into

File: liberal scum.png (12KB, 501x499px) Image search: [Google]

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>>8606431
>alt right

And here I was thinking I was a liberal. I didn't even vote for Trump in November! Missed opportunity!

>>8605718
>mexico doesn't have a choice. we can strangle their nation until they're starving and dying.

they already are, you honestly think threats of economic depression towards a country that already has the largest wage gap in history gives a shit? its like living in a box and someone telling you "if you dont do X im going to take all your money away"

>>8606304
>i've personally seen plenty of solid blue collar white neighborhoods turn browner and browner with every given year.

This is bad why?

Remember if you reveal you are pol, you invalidate your "argument"

>>8606243
You blithering cuntface

>>8606385
doesn't change the fact the kids still shouldn't have US citizenship.

>>8605718
>we can strangle their nation until they're starving and dying

We're supposed to be better than that. That's "bully shaking down a school-kid for his lunch money" tier behavior. That's incredibly unbecoming of the "Greatest nation in the world."

File: Screenshot_20170114-014035.jpg (545KB, 1303x1181px) Image search: [Google]

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Ropes and latters guys

Remember ropes and latters

>>8606443
Why anon, they are USA born.... just like you.

You wouldn't happen to be a racist would you? That would just invaidate your argument.

>>8606435

Anon, not to be rude but you missed the key part of the post addressing the wall's effectiveness.

I'm 100% okay with building the wall on one condition.

Eliminate social security and cut off all current recipients. Use the funds from that to build the wall.

Already retired? No 401k or IRA? Too bad. Back to work with you. Go help build the wall.

>>8605718
>we can strangle their nation until they're starving and dying.
kek. they already are
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Debt_Disclosure_Act_of_1995

>>8606439
because i can't think of any single brown latin american country i'd want to live in, but if you can you are free to fuck off there.

>>8606443
Many countries issue citizenship like this. Restricting this is likely to create more problems than it solves and it's unlikely to get enough popular support to pass. I'm sorry anon but that is simply a fringe belief. Perhaps you would be more at home at our fringe containment board, /pol/.

>>8606447
>just like you
that's where you're wrong. i'm a naturalized US citizen.

also
>das racis
where did i mention anything about race, you retarded faggot? but if you like your brown pets so much, why not live among them?

>>8606452
This

And when they complain just tell them that they shouldn't ask for their gov to give everything to them for free like a leftist socialist nation

>>8606457
maybe you should go back to >>>/r/eddit with your hot opinions, fagtron. they really need to start banning you reddit transplants that think everything you don't like is /pol/. unlike you, /pol/ is part of 4chan and belongs here.

>>8606459
U seem upset :∆)

>>8606456
>opinion invalidated
Back into the
>>>/trash/
>>>/pol/

>>8606463
>social security
>free
lmao

guess how i know you've never received a paycheck in your life. plus, the main people it would hurt be would be leftists that relied on government for retirement.

>>8606469
>leftist parasite thinks he has any say
lmao

ladies first
>>>/r/eddit

>>8606467
and you seem to be recycling year old memes just like a typical redditor.

>>8606459
Still haven't awnser the question
Is all you can do is defect?
Is playing retarded your best tactic HAHA lol

>doesn't change the fact the kids still shouldn't have US citizenship.

Whys that again?

>>8606465
>Implying

/pol/ is a containment board created to contain the stormnigger cancer that tried to raid 4chan in response to the Hal Turner raids. I've been on 4chan since 2004 and am one of the people who asked moot to create /sci/. It is you cancerous /pol/ newfags who don't belong on 4chan.

tl;dr: kill yourself, double nigger.

>>8606449
True I did. Frankly I'm trying to skate around that. Mainly because there's not a whole lot of hard evidence for the statistics that it actually would do. I imagine it would significantly cut down on land traffic, but there's always other routes. It may just make it a point to divert immigration, smuggling, and other criminal activity to the Caribbean, then we can have more pirates again. Ultimately I was focusing on what would be a best-case scenario for the wall, and that would be it paying its costs off in around 10-15 years. A more realistic situation is that the thing MIGHT pay itself off in 25 years, or just never fucking will. But it's not necessarily only a simple economic analysis, it may actually improve the security of Mexico as it limits the drug market in the US, leading to a more effective effort in the War on Drugs, making the nation safer.

Again, conjecture about how well the damn thing will work, but they're angles to consider anyway.

>>8605068
It's only 5 times longer than Israels walls.
Economically it's ez.

As for the premise of walls keeping people on one side of a thing, I think there's a pretty long consensus on their viability. Just how much planes and border crossings keep out Mexicans is up to the federal government.

>>8606470
Removing social security would likely affect poor Southern working class people disproportionately as opposed to Leftists who tend to hold higher income skilled labor jobs that offer decent retirement plans. Your assertion that most leftists rely on the Government for retirement. presumably because you assume anyone who supports social programs must also be dependent on them, is wrong.

>>8606470
Sometimes I wonder if your just pretending to be retarded.

No i'm not being witty, i legitimately wonder if you believe half of what you say, or have you just played retarded for so long you have just memed yourself into pure ignorance.

>>8606474
because their parents don't have US citizen, you leftist shit for brains. i thought you'd have enough deductive power to figure that out for yourself, but clearly i overestimated you.

>>8606475
sure thing, faggot. that's why /pol/ used to raid stormfront and in turn stormfront hates /pol/, right? or did they not have that on whatever memedatabase website you just checked?

>>8606483
Dude, you do pay into social security. It's taken out of every check. He's right on that count.

It should still be eliminated and not paid back to the people who paid into it though.

>>8606476
There are statistics out there on overstays (enter the country legally and would not be affected by the wall) but as you pointed out, reliability is a big question. I've seen estimates as high as 40% of illegals being overstays.

With regard to drug traffic:
http://www.businessinsider.com/stratfor-the-us-works-with-cartels-2012-9

>>8606480
>Leftists who tend to hold higher income skilled labor jobs that offer decent retirement plans.
lmao

your strawman about "my" assertion is wrong. i never said that most leftists rely on government retirement, but that the main people who rely on government retirement are leftists. for the longest time democrats used to be the party of the working poor, until they slowly started going full retard in the 90s and are continuing along the trend.

>>8606483
what's the matter, looked up what a paystub looks like and realized that you're a moron so now you just resorted to raw shit flinging?

>>8606487
>It should still be eliminated and not paid back to the people who paid into it though.

Do you even realize what you just typed up. This is what i mean, you have memed yourself into full retardation. I really am amazed the this site.

>>8606484
Even stormniggers can't stand themselves. That's clearly also why you all refuse to stay in your board. Sad!

>>8606497
why do you reddit retards even come here? are you shadow banned on plebbit so you come and shitpost here so people can actually see the drivel you spew out?

>>8605113
A wall is good if you want to slow down armies from their march route towards you. It does dog shit if you want to stop individials crossing it unorganized. For this to be effectual you would need border control agents controlling the whole thing 24/7. At this point though you wouldnt really need a wall anymore. If you are going to employ half a million border control agents, the wall is not really needed anymore.

>>8606501
>stop individials crossing it unorganized.
they don't cross as individuals, and as for being unorganized just have a quick glance at this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coyotaje

>>8606484
>because their parents don't have US citizen, you leftist shit for brains
Yea, just like your family at one time had parrents who were immigrants to America.

The kids are born in america, so why does the parents citizenship have anything to do with this poltard?

They are automaticaly citizens by being born in the usa just like every other kid.

>>8606500
I would never browse that cancerous site. They think image macros are memes, just like the cancer that inhabits /pol/.

>>8605079
>implying the wall will not be patrolled by patriotic volunteers

>>8606509
>macros are memes
if the same macros get spammed ad nauseam they are memes, dipshit. that's literally the definition of memes.

>>8605191
Mexico will pay for it by being taxed.

>>8606500
>everyone i dissagree with is from reddit

>>8606504
>Yea, just like your family at one time had parrents who were immigrants to America.
yeah, try again. i'm a naturalized US citizen. kind of throws your argument into the shitter, doesn't it?

what you leftist retards don't seem to realize is that no one hates illegal immigrants as much as legal immigrants.

>>8606512
Your meme game is Facebook tier. Please redirect your browser to your new home at 9gag.

>>8606514
prove me wrong.

>>8606517
Prove yourself right.

>>8606515
Legal immigrant here, no I don't. Learn some basic logic before posting a statement containing a universal quantifier on /sci/. Also kill yourself you self entitled prick.

>>8606515
Too bad the discussion was kids who were born in america. And you have yet to do anything but deflect from that point.

I dont give a shit about you anon.

But im here to point out how wrong and retardes you are.

>>8606518
you're reddit. QED.

>>8606521
>anchor baby here
ftfy

>>8606522
And yes i mistyped a word, im on my phone. Deal with it

Could you build a wall where every few meters was placed a strong gamma-emitter source, and connect and surround those with razor wire and other stuff designed to shred up radiation resistant suits?

Then even if they made it across they'd be dying of radiation exposure - and you could restrict ocological care to only people with proof of citizenship, to speed things along.

>>8606524
Prove it

>>8606522
>Yea, just like your family at one time had parrents who were immigrants to America.
>your family
apparently you do and your point was a false premise.

kids should only receive the citizenship(s) of their parents at birth, not whatever country they claw out of their mother's vagina in.

>>8606524
Top moar, bitch.

>>8606530
>[fringe opinion], fite me
lolno kys

>>8606530
Its called a generlization. You autist
Again i dont give a shit about you.

>kids should only receive the citizenship(s) of their parents at birth, not whatever country they claw out of their mother's vagina in.

Aww thats a cute opinion, too bad its wrong.

>>8605068

You started a giant shit show.

Estimates ( https://www.technologyreview.com/s/602494/bad-math-props-up-trumps-border-wall/ ): $27 billion to $40 billion.

US tax payers will pay for it. Within 7 years, the maintenance cost will exceed construction cost.

Plus, the wall is not going to be very effective anyway and will be finished after Trump leaves office.

If we want to make jobs, the money should be used to maintain bridges and infrastructure.

>>8606535
>[fringe opinion],
it's so fringe that it's the opinion of virtually the entire world outside the americas. might want to look up the definition of words you're using.

>>8606536
yes, pretty much the whole world outside he americas is wrong on the accounts of you.

>>8606530
Based on that logic, there are no white americans, just a bunch of illegal europeans.

>>8606538
>it's so fringe that it's the opinion of virtually the entire world outside the americas. might want to look up the definition of words you're using.
Hilariously wrong

>>8606538
>the entire world

Actully no, no you are just making shit up, lol kys.

>>8606539
>Sjw trying into logic
Why are you even on this board?

>>8606539
based on that logic, everyone is an illegal immigrant unless they reside inside the original borders of whatever country they have citizenship in, with all subsequent land conquests being voided.

also, there are no legal black, hispanic, or asian immigrants in the US, based on your logic, of course.

>>8606547
Yea, and its a fucking retarded idea by a retardef anon.

>>8606545
>pol trying into logic
Why are you even on this board?

>>8606540
you're the same retard that thought you don't pay into social security, aren't you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli

>>8606541
pretty much the entire world outside the americas, but nice strawman.

also, since you both proved yourselves to be retarded, i'll clarify the article because the countries that are marked as "jus soli with restrictions" pretty much all require at least one parent to have citizenship in that country.

>>8606550
no need to be so hard on yourself, unless you are seriously making extreme enough mental gymnastics to think what you were saying makes a shred of sense.

>>8606558
Nice projecting

Gg

>>8606556
No, I'm not. I wasn't even involved in that argument however you've just confirmed your the same buttblasted /pol/esmokers who keeps getting smeared all over the thread. Nice job, retard.

Also,
>Apparently the entire world doesn't include 2 continents and several modernized countries.
LEL

>>8606559
says the tardy who thinks no birthright citizenship equals no legal immigration. are you a br monkey? they are the only ones this stupid.

>>8606563
>being so stupid that all you have is strawmans to try and save face
lmao

thanks for repeating what i said though

>>8606570
>Asking the US to follow the example of countries it couldn't find on a map.
Nigga, please, look at the map. It's obvious all the important countries do it. The US as the most important country should do it the most. If you think otherwise you're a stinkin' commie.

>>8606476
>Again, conjecture about how well the damn thing will work

??
It's a fucking wall, what are you talking about conjecture?
Theres a HUGE difference between some beaners swimming across the river then getting into cars, or putting their drugs into cars + swimming back

And between them having to get on a boat, to try to sneak into US waters + into the USA
Can't hide a boat from radar

Anyone who claims a wall won't work or be effective is a LIAR who ultimately wants to see more illegals.

>>8606592
I still don't understand how you plan on getting enough money to maintain and monitor a wall that long. This isn't exactly on the same scale as East Berlin.

>>8605116
No they didn't lol. They built many walls through the dynasties. Each wall was effective in their purpose, but later ones simply bypass the walls and come from an alternative way.

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>>8606592
> Anyone who claims a wall won't work or be effective is a LIAR who ultimately wants to see more illegals.

Heehaw! Dat's what I call a scienmatific explination!

>>8605068
Walls won't stop them. Nothing can stop them. They'll always find a way.

What you need to do is find a way to make it less attractive to do so in the first place. You just have to come down on them real fucking hard.

Also, crack down on people giving work and housing to illegals with ridiculously high fines. Crack down on states protecting them as well. Helping illegals should be a crime.

>>8606643
>make America look unattractive
>elect Trump
4d chess after all.

>>8606604
the wall stretched through whole Germany and in the best time of the UdSSR through whole Europe guarded by soldiers

>>8606643
wrong, we had to install walls in our enclaves in Morocco too and they helped
people are still getting over, but it got better

>>8606662
Im not saying walls don't help. But you should start by scaring people off first.

That way you clear up resources for border patrol as they have less work to do.

And since most of the border in America is just empty desert they would be better with aan autonomous system of drones and AI.

>>8606604
Mexico is going to pay for it...
Why do you think monitoring a wall is harder than monitoring an empty border or fence..

>>8606666
>Why have a physical barrier when you can have a non-existant "autonomous system" thats abolished by the next liberal president

uh huh
This is why millions of illegals flood in every year

>>8606671
Got a point there.

>>8606592
Retard, read this >>8605573
Specifically the section on effectiveness.

>>8606676
I see more babbling lies
There has to be a wall, thats the basic beginning so that you have a border

You fuckers forgot about the dozens of tunnels.

/pol/ is not welcome here. Please go back your containment board and stay there.

>>8606678
>40% of illegal immigrants arrive legally by plane. A border has no effect on their life.
>Durr, a border is the first thing we need.
How embarrassing for you.

>>8606684
This. Those low IQ brainlets have no business on /sci/.

>>8606688
Like I said, you are just another illegal enabler who is engaging in disingenuous lies/bullshitting

Dems want to throw out meaningless promises of "border security" in exchange for compromises today.

>>8606693
>>>/pol/
you have to go back

>>8606643
>Also, crack down on people giving work and housing to illegals with ridiculously high fines. Crack down on states protecting them as well. Helping illegals should be a crime.
Yeah dude. While we're at it we should offer rewards to people informing on their illegal neighbors. Establish a secret police dedicated to finding illegals. In fact, we should start deporting people just for being suspected of being illegal or helping illegals, those who violate the sanctity of our nation's borders don't deserve trials.

>>8606701
you have to go back

>>8606711
You first :^)

>>8606713
america is white

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49KB, 652x960px

>>8606699
They can't help it. /pol/ is just memes and shitposting, the mods have abandoned any pretense of running the board. It is pure containment now. This is why there is so much /pol/ shit leaking into other boards. The only place you can find people willing to engage is outside /pol/.

hiroshimoot is fucked; he can't delete /pol/ because the cancer would rapidly spread across the site. But he can't enforce good moderation either, apparently.

>>8606727
>memes
Please anon, have some self respect. That Facebook tier garbage doesn't qualify as memes.

>>8606727
I wish we could build a wall around /sci/ to keep political threads out.

>>8606526
that's fucking monstrous

>>8605068
Most undocumented immigrants are actually people who just overstay their work visas not border hoppers

>>8605417
Well now its just source vs source. Just take what fits with your world view

>>8605603
are you fucking retarded, the only way i can excuse your delusion is if you are a Mexican citizen (if so am sorry for your loss)
> peso hit a record low
> every time trump tweet the Mexican economy tremble
> president is unpopular + oil crisis due to high price
> riots

Nah man every thing is fine carry along nothing to watch

Most illegal immigrants don't get in here by crossing the border, they just overstay their visa.
Wall doesn't even factor in

>>8605718
what a time to be alive, i cant wait until Trump become president,and break all his promises.
i meant shit the KKK still proudly rep Trump while he is appointing his jewish son as an advisor.
draining the swamp while having a team of millionaires and billionaires in his team. this is gowing to be great.

>>8606819
>draining the swamp while having a team of millionaires and billionaires in his team. this is gowing to be great.
his definition of the swamp was never what your definition is now

>>8606816

Well building a wall in general is retarded since drug traders have been mostly mobilizing through underground networks since the 90's. So the illegals will just go that way.

Unless Trump plans to build a wall that expands hundreds of feet above and below ground. Which will break the bank and make him look like an absolute madman.

>>8606824
>Unless Trump plans to build a wall that expands hundreds of feet above and below ground.
I have news for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glVyh_1py_k
Sorry I could only find this joke vid but listen to what he says.

>>8606819
He will certainly TRY to build the wall, at least. But we'll see how the construction process goes. The Israeli wall, that Trumptards love to use as an example, has been under construction since 2000 (that's 17 years for burgers that can't into math) and it's still unfinished, despite being much smaller, flimsier, shorter and on less harsh terrain than the wall Trump proposes.

>>8606411
And then marvel at the ingenuity of the cartels that make tunnels under them once a month

>being an unpolitical as possible
>/pol/ tier thread
Mutually exclusive

>>8606510
Cabelas in Texas is gonna have to expand their XL-sized tacticool 5.11 department if that were to happen.

>>8606868
tunnelling hundreds of yards is totes the same as just swimming across a river or hiking through some desert

>>8606510
Already has been done. Didn't make a difference

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minuteman_Project

>>8605463
>Three Gorges Dam was built with ~16 million cubic meters of concrete and only took nine years to build.
With a workforce about half the size of the US available workforce and thousands of cement factories working clockwork.

I'm sorry, but China has a WAY better infrastructure for projects like these than the USA.

>>8606907
Minuteman could be a solution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGM-30_Minuteman

>>8607120
The wall isn't radiation proof

>>8605453
I can't believe you unironically repeated that myth. Buh buh we need slave labor to support the US, expelling slave labor, tax drains and criminals is unethical. The wall won't save muh jobs because all of them are being automated. Except for the slave labor, there jobs aren't being automated at all (they are)

All of you leftist don't understand that supporting illegals in any manner is equivalent to believing in a flat earth, maybe even more destructive since you are okay with the murder of western civilization. Just as bad as your belief that genes have zero effect on intelligence, behavior, and that intelligence doesn't differ by race.

>>8605751
No, because we're not stupid lefty children like you.

>>8606439
Gee, I dunno, because multicultural and multiracial societies don't work, and it is impossible for mestizos to create a society equivalent to white Americas, due to their behavioral and cognitive differences that prevents them, as a group, from creating advanced countries, as every single Latin American country demonstrates.

I don't care if you think I'm /pol/. I don't care if you deny race and IQ. They are facts in the end of the day. In the end of the day, the demise of white homogeneity is a serious issue and will lead to the death of western civilization, and was one of the reason why Trump was elected. Maybe you should learn to listen, but as a leftist, that maybe impossible for you.

>>8606457
Many countries don't believe anchor babies deserve citizenship ala Japan. In fact, some countries go further and give special preferences to common ethnicity ala South Korea and Israel. How is that fringe. What retard thinks anchor babies deserve to be US citizens unless they are also idiotic civic nationalist?

>>8606816
Why do you people deliberately ignore the fact that thousands of illegal central Americans stream across the border every single time, and that crossing the border was the number one source of illegal immigrants since the 1950s? Why do you pretend to act like idiots just in order to try to pretend that the wall is a bad idea?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiJ4KUuT9bs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5v4fBSyU9Q

Oh look. Record number of Central American migrants streaming across the border, enough to fund an industry of coyotes. But building a wall won't matter right? Because if you ignore this fact, then it means that most illegal immigrants come from visas hur dur.

>>8606824
>Well building a wall in general is retarded since drug traders have been mostly mobilizing through underground networks

The wall doesn't need to be hundreds of feat below the ground to fuck up most of those underground passages in the first place. Crossing from land, and trying to cross via sea, or via plane, or via underground passages, automatically is much much harder to accomplish, and much easier to spot and put an end too.


I swear, /sci/, how can you be so dumb?

>>8607500
>and much easier to spot and put an end too.
Kek

>>8607583
That's all you faggots can say, but its true. Its half the reason why Japan and Australia can handle illegal immigration so much better then they would with a land border. A wall is half the reason Israel reduced bombings.

It's because Japan is xenophobic as fuck and all the Asian countries around them see them as racist assholes that they'd rather not live around. Australia is just shit.

>>8605084
>tfw mexico has already built its own southern wall to keep the Sudamericanos out

it's a vicious cycle

>>8606821
drain the swamp= get rid of corruption, back alley deal, and DC fuckery
>intead let me hire fuck rex and make him a billionaire.
on essential thing people forget is that it is risky to bring people from the private sector to the government, this rex guy is going to make upward to 400 million tax free. same thing happen with Hank "nah the bank would never be greedy at this point" paulson but guess what this fucker not only did not see the 2008 crisis but his buffooneries dam near cost the US the biggest financial crisis ever.