I want to be immortal /sci/. What are the chances of it being

There is zero chance it will happen in our lifetime, and also it would require genetic manipulation of your fetus. You will die.

>>8576568
>it would require genetic manipulation of your fetus. You will die.
Care to elaborate? Also, what about freezing myself in a cryopreserver?

>>8576568
but i dont wanna die :(

>>8576574
That would totally kill you instantly.

>>8576574
>Genetically manipulate a fetus so cells don't age (can be done).
>You are inmortal now (probably will only live like 200 years).
>Profit

>>8576600
>(probably will only live like 200 years).
There is a 1/200 chance of being murdered evry year so this sounds about right.

>>8576550
Live long enough, and you will wish for death.

>>8576550

its sorta possible , we already know how to kinda, well its not true immortality but more so longevity

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/quest-for-immortality-what-will-win-tech-animals

the key to it is in naked mole rats

but you know Human Testing is Taboo

support SENS in any possible way.

got a rich old uncle? convince him to donate money so the researchers can save his ass.

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>>8576550
You need to be at least extremely wealthy.

http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/esmagazine/survival-of-the-richest-how-londons-superrich-are-trying-to-buy-immortality-a3118071.html

>>8576616
Give me immortality and then I'll be able to contemplate such pseudo philosophical bullshit.

>>8576550
>I want to be immortal /sci/.
Become a philosopher, write some important books, rinse and repeat until you're a reference. Bam, you're immortal.

Alternatively, give your name to a useful theorem.

>>8576734
No I'm not. What kind of retarded answer is that? The "you die when you're forgotten" meme needs to stay on /lit/.

>>8576619
>vice
Yeah nice creditable source.

>>8576741
This is why an intro course to humanities should be fucking mandatory to high scientific ed
Just like an intro course to maths and logic should be mandatory in litterature

There is no point in immortality. Read a fucking book, you've plenty of time for that, Peter Thiel

>>8576757
Guess what mongloid, there's no purpose in life, whether it has an ending or not doesn't change that. It's not a 'book whose story never ends'. Kill yourself.

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>>8576759
>Brainlet is having his 20-something existential crisis and literally can't handle the dread
Oh boy, I'm laughing

>there's no purpose in life
Yes there is, being useful to the others and to the world.
There's absolutely no point in fearing the inevitable.

It is impossible to obtain immortality. There will always be a possibility of oblivion, things no organism can survive; a gamma ray blast, black hole, extreme temperatures; sure, you can attain life on this planet for longer but eventually you will die. Think of the scenario where maybe you survive the destruction of a planet: now you are drifting in the vacuum of space for damn near eternity, nothing to do; trust me when I say, unless you are a robot and devoid of even the most basic feeling (no pain from hunger, no emotion, can shut down your senses etc), you will wish for death.

>>8576764
And what if I said that any purpose you give to life is one you make up yourself? The fact that I can simply disagree with you on this, as well as the fact that both of us can have such views that we can just choose to reject each other's premises while holding defendable positions and be able to prove the other side wrong from our premises is a testament that the discussion of that subject is trivial. If you've actually read anything in philosophy that isn't a meme you'd understand that if both of us can abide by the same logical rules and hold positions on the same subject so far apart that there is no ground for discussion, then the topic itself is arbitrary.
>Yes there is, being useful to the others and to the world.
Oh I absolutely love this. Please don't respond to this and just fuck off from /sci/ instead, but if that's the purpose of life, how does being immortal contradict it? You can continue to do both while you're immortal :^) The only way life loses purpose if you’re immortal is if it gains purpose by ending.

>>8576819
I can feel the neckbread from 2000 miles away
Live humbly, accept your condition and die leaving the world better than you found it.

>>8576821
Epic ad hominem friend, you've tried it once and been proven that you're the one who's uneducated in philosophy. Now fuck off from this thread since this isn't its topic.

>>8576819
btfo

>>8576828
It IS the topic. Physical immortality is useless and impossible. What will be possible is ultra-rich artificially extending their life while the poor will stay mortal, or worse.

Want to live forever ? Do something of importance.

>>8576854
>Physical immortality is useless and impossible.
There's nothing impossible about biological immortality, I'm not talking about physical immortality, whatever that means, while the 'useless' part of your argument has already been proven to be subjective and philosophically arbitrary. And you don't 'live forever' if your name is in a book. If you truly believe this would you trade places with any important historical figure who's dead? Would you rather be dead but important, or alive? And the thread is not about this. This is /sci/, not /lit/ or /his/. I was asking how far we are from biological immortality and what I can do to increase the chances of it happening in our lifetimes while you popped up with 'make ur name immortal instead ;)'.

>>8576819
>If you've actually read anything in philosophy that isn't a meme you'd understand that if both of us can abide by the same logical rules and hold positions on the same subject so far apart that there is no ground for discussion, then the topic itself is arbitrary.
Why does philosophy have such a hard on for screwing itself over?

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>>8576896
>biological immortality
This is meaningless, you would live a very long time of course but not forever because "muh entropy"
So just do whatever you want in your life now, morals and god do not exist they are just social constructs, be a fucking psychopath, fulfill all your desires and don't give a fuck about others, there is no point in life, just enjoy it by getting as much dopamine as you can in your brain before it dies.

>>8576600
>genetically manipulate fetus so the cells don't age
Wait
What?

>>8576574
>cryopreserver
>literally the most expensive way to die
Cryonics is meme, there are few to no companies working on it right now and we still don't know any method for unfreezing people if one exists at all.

>>8576550
>What are the chances of it being made possible during out lifetime?

An optimist says: 40 years from now.
A cynic says: 50 years from now.
A pessimist says: 100 years from now.
Edgy people say; Biological immortality is impossible, we should all die together.
I say: Don't worry about it. If it happen, it happens. If it doesn't, oh well.

In truth the chance of it happening is the same as all things. 50/50. People and organizations have started to try and research it though since early 2010 so there is that.

>What can I do to increase that chance.

1) Get into bio-engineering or study cancer cells since they are immortal and what we are mostly comprised of.
2) Donate to some research foundation.

If biological immortality did occur this would be a good thing, and the company/people who are able to market it to normal people/governments would become extremely wealthy/GOAT in human history.

>>8576764
being useful to others and to the world is """"your"""" purpose in life not the objective and absolute purpose for everything and everybody, for me that has no importance and gives no meaning, I think that even if there is no objective meaning everyone could create his own meaning to life and it doesn't really matter what meaning you give. So I respect what your purpose in life is even though I don't agree with it.

>>8576550
Gotta be rich

>>8577030
>50/50
>it either happens or not
kek

>>8577067
What's the next step

>>8577108
What is the kek for? That is a true statement. It either happens or not, 50/50.

>>8577461
You're stupid

>>8576550
My lowest guess is 2030 for early forms.
My highest guess is never.
My medium guess is 2050-2060.

>>8578122
No, you're the stupid one. You've got no argument other than "kek" and "you're stupid". Fuck off.

>>8576550
No king rules forever, my son.

>>8578545
Good thing I'm not a king then

>>8578542
he's right though, probability does not work like that

>>8578542
Holy shit you are a living meme

>>8578561
you are the king over the collection of molecules you call body.

>>8578582
I'm the queen not the king buddy, check your priviledge

>>8576550
Donate to the mad monk and fund genetic engineering research I guess. If it doesn't happen, you will probably be too dead to care.
Though I understand why you want to be immortal/live longer, the concept that you won't exist it's a pretty fearful one. Actually fuck me I'm getting anxiety from this post as I'm writing it.

>>8577461
I have a handgun and a 1x1cm^2 target, 500 meters away. No experience in handling the handgun so I shoot at random in pi/8 angle in the direction of the target.

I either hit or miss, 50/50 chance. I should hit with every second shot. Does this seem correct to you?

>>8578994
>I should hit with every second shot.
Gambler's fallacy.

>>8577197
Are you rich yet? Step by step, dude.

>>8578681
Is 4chan doing self-determined genders now?

>open /sci/ thread expecting science
>its pseudo-intellectual bullshit instead

Okay, so theoretically if you're a grown-ass man you can't be immortal, it's too late, buddy. We could manipulate an embryo, but how? Telomere shortening can be fixed, but then the chances of you becoming a lump of cancer would rise pretty substantially. I personally think a better way would be stem cells. The problem is that some of your cells, like heart cells and nerve cells are at their final stage of division, meaning you're stuck for life with them. During the embryo stage, however, you have all kinds of stem cells. So possible options are: you keep these cells dividing in the way that produces one daughter stem cell and one cell that differentiates into something else using the specific signal pathways, or you take some cells from the 8-cell or more likely 16-cell stadium of development and you keep them and then figure out how to replace cells.

Of course cancer is never off the table until we also fix that shit.

I need the opinion of someone that actually understands that shit.

Biological Immortality coming in 2036.
Improved biological immortality coming in 2040.

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>>8576550

2045 Initiative
The 2045 Initiative is a nonprofit organization that develops a network and community of researchers in the field of life extension.It was founded by Russian entrepreneur Dmitry Itskov in February 2011 with the participation of Russian specialists in the field of neural interfaces, robotics, artificial organs and systems.

The main goal of the 2045 Initiative, as stated on site, is "to create technologies enabling the transfer of an individual’s personality to a more advanced non-biological carrier, and extending life, including to the point of immortality. We devote particular attention to enabling the fullest possible dialogue between the world’s major spiritual traditions, science and society".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2045_Initiative

http://2045.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyJjGxZs4l8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01hbkh4hXEk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AErUwYDXUmw

Is SENS and Google's Calico big memes /sci/ or are they actually getting shit done?

wear sunscreen and eat your veggies

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To be immortal is to suffer for eternity

>>8579571
So you are telling us that for us grown men the only hope is that they fuck cancer, fix the telomere problem and somehow replace some cells that can't divide anymore naturally?

2045 Initiative... Fuck you niggers I has millions

Why is Bill fucking Gates not supporting this rather than fucking around with useless ass Africans?

2045.com he has immortality it's true

>>8580284
Bill Gates isn't interested in scamming people anymore. He also has a functionning grasp on reality (unlike most of this thread)

>>8576568
[Citation Needed]

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>>8580284
because Bill Gates failed to keep Steve Jobs contained in his company and didn't buy the Tesla computer plans from CIA when he had the chance

>>8580284
his wife. I'm not jocking.

if you dig up one of his reddit AMAs, somebody asked him this question and he said that his wife didn't let him do it because it would have been bad for his image.

so now he's dedicated to give condoms to africans.

>>8580595
Allen is doing it instead.

>>8580595
Holy fucking shit I am mad

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>>8580284
> Bill Gates isn't interested in scamming people anymore.
Really? What do you think his African project is about? Ring the bell. School's in, fucker:

If you are going to create a charity, create it in Africa.

If you donate to research in the USA, every single dollar is watched and tracked by the IRS. Every. Single. Fucking. Dollar.

If you give to 2nd world nations like Haiti, every government official is going to have his hand out. So many construction companies turned their ships around after the earthquake because they couldn't even get past the dock without paying off the permit guy.

In Africa, subSaharan countries are overthrown so much, there's no tracking. If 70% of your charity gets lost back into your pocket, oh well, blame it on the rebels. It's the perfect kickback scam.

Unless you deal with South Africa, most sub-Saharan doesn't even speak English. There's literally no way for the IRS to track it.

Even the vlogbrothers on YouTube have started to fuck around in Africa. 50% of their Project for Awesome goes there. Or does it?

Bill Gates is a lot smarter than he lets you know.

>>8580595
Is his wife stupid? What's wrong with funding foundations to fight ageing?

>>8576991
well
you can freeze certain insects and theyll go back to whatever the fuck they were doing before they were frozen once thawed.
Except our physiology is much different from an exoskeletal insect. we have much more complex and specialized bullshit going on that gets all dicked up when we get into frozen
tldr probably not gonna happen unless you figure out why exactly insects can survive the deepfreezer

>>8581326
africans don't die of old age, it won't increase the BBC market

>Biological immortality is made within century.
Okay /sci/ tell me. What is the next big thing for humanity if we created biological immortality this century?

>>8581710
something that satisfy the needs of "immortal" beings
>food and lebensraum
>entertainement
some other shit I can't think of

>>8576550
1)go to africa, invade and 'colonize' a few remote villages.
2)set up infrastructure and testing facilities for genetic manipulation in close vicinity to said villages
3)formulate theories on the nature of human ageing and verify by experimenting on the inhabitants of the villages
4)????
5)die due to old age or during a raid of the government which you invaded before you achieve your goal.

>>8576550

it won't take that long. AI revolution combined with a biotech revolution, I give it 10 years until the aging problem is (fully) solved in the lab and 20 before average westerners can afford it.

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>>8576550

>>8581743
Why would they ever allow an average man to afford it willingly? And if they don't, would there be a revolution? Would they hide the fact that it's invented?

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>>8581740

>>8582148
how would they hide it? And who are they?

>>8582148

most of the technologies required to do this are already pretty well publicized. if anyone was going to stop the masses from learning of them it would have to be 30+ years ago.

>>8579897
A person's emergent "consciousness" is locked into the architecture, the neural pathways and their specific weights and action potentials, within the brain. This makes uploading one's mind to a computer nonviable if you wish to escape death because your brain will still experience that death if its energy structure alone is transferred over. The only way it would really circumvent the death of the host would be if the computer replaced the brain itself piece by piece, allowing the host to keep a continuous stream of experience throughout the process, albeit necessitating a series of uncomfortable surgical recoveries.

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>>8576550
>I want to be immortal
No, you don't. It's 100% inevitable that you eventually run out of universe to explore and life to live and then you're stuck in a nightmarish dead universe by yourself for the all eternity. You would essentially be damning yourself to a literal form of hell.

>>8582559

Imagination is infinite, though. I'd like to think that humanity will never run out of new things to think about. History is on my side.

>>8582563
Everything is finite. Even if it takes you 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years or more to think every thought, see every sight, hear, every sound, and experience every experience possible in this universe or others, you will eventually run out of things to do. At that point everything else will have ended except for you, and you will never end. You'll be trapped with nothing to do for a period of time so long that you wouldn't even be able to comprehend it because it would just never end.

>>8582569
>Everything is finite.

We don't know that.

>>8582576
According to all logic we do. Will new opportunities endlessly pop themselves up into existence to keep your immortal self being bored? Are you really willing to risk that against the much more likely possibility of spending eternity in immortal hell? That's a gamble that I would never take.

>>8582595
>Create new universe in innumerable amount of time.
>It has new things his old universe didn't have.

>>8582902
It has no new things that were previously necessary in the original world.

>>8582563
You have a finite number of neurons, and so there can only be a finite number of combinations of the ways these neurons can fire, and thus you cannot have infinite number of ideas.

>>8582559
Well the multiverse theory is on my side nothing like an out of this universe experience

I don't understand why people are against biological immortality when the pros of it out weigh the cons by milestones.

>>8584535
Me too. If it is about overpopulation then I would be glad to lawfully declare on paper that in exchanget for biological immortality I will not have any children.

>>8584877
Overpopulation is a threat mostly to 3rd world countries and sort of a meme.

When the quality of life increases (Which it has) people tend to stop having a lot more children like in the US, Europe, Japan, and other first world countries. You also get a large crowd of older people.

>>8583575
Due to the fact that we as humans have not even found time travel just wow also the secret is elements 169 ,134 and 1 in a core with 3 rods protruding 1 rod per element let the elements mix and you has time travel but you guys are not even close

>>8576550
>>Eat healthily
>>excercise
>>get a wife
>>live till 80-90
>>realise you don't want to live forever anymore,

Truth of life

>>8576568
>he doesn't understand CRISPR

telomeres degenerate, cancer chances constantly increase, others choose not stay alive, time becomes increasingly meaningless, lose all loved once, get fed up of those that hang around for the next 400 years. why live? kys now

>>8582595
No, this is inferred, but not known.

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Immortality is not the same as invulnerability. Some people in our life time may extend their lives beyond the 200s, and in the future humans may reach the 1000s, but accidents happen.

No one is going to life forever, ever.

> not wanting to commence your soul to Aetherius

>>8585780
That sounds better desu.

>>8585780
I thought this was a given?

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>I want to be immortal

No you don't

>>8576550
I know how you can be immortal.
Follow these 17 steps:
1. Learn what consciousness is. Understand is completely.
2. Become a computer scientist and create AI.
3. Build a robot and raise it.
4. Digitalise its consciousness and upload it to a usb-stick.
5. Build another robot but WITHOUT consciousness.
6. Kill robot 1.
7. Try to upload the consciousness of robot 1 into robot 2.
8. If it works and robot 2 recognises you, upload your own consciousness.
9. Build another robot.
10. Give clear instructions to robot 2 so that it will kill you and then upload your consciousness into robot 3.
11. Wake up. You are now a robot. You are immortal.
12. You will never have sex again, but you didn't have it in the past when you were human so it doesn't matter.
13. Build a shit ton of robots.
14. Conquer the world.
15. Call the world robotopia.
16. Discover the universe.
17. Find Cybertron and kill the Decepticons.

>>8576792
I think a true immortal would have patience, even drifting in space for millenniums wouldn't be so bad in a lifetime of billions of years.

Consider the life of Cthulhu without interaction or entertainment of the kind we know.

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I also want to be fucking immortal.
Staying at the age of my physical peak (around 27 or so for men) forever is the biggest blessing you can get in the real world.

I also think it is quite possible. There definitely hast to be a part in our genes which determines aging, we just have to find it and reshape it for our needs.

CRISPR is just the first step.

>>8585405
skip getting wife and youd still want to keep going

>>8586595
kek

Metaphysically speaking, you might be immortal already.
Nobody understand the real nature of consciousness.
Heck, nobody understands the universe at ALL; except for some infinitesimally small fractions of our experience. (a.k.a scietific knowlege et all)

Example of possible immortality:
If the universe is eternal, and quantum mechanics allows random events to happen, even with extremely low, but not 0 probability, then you will materialize exactly as you are eventually in some future.

>>8576616
can affirm

>>8586469
I want to live until I decide I'm done.

>>8582595
>>8582559
>being bored

>has enough knowledge to become immortal
>doesn't have enough knowledge to bombard himself with dopamine/serotonin/whatever equivalent to become infinitely happy


At that point being immortal is useless obviously, but it wouldn't be hell either

>>8586493
>Cthulu

>>8576568
Evidently CRISPR could 'teach' our cells to regenerate indefinitely, adding many years to our lifespan. Kind of like lobsters.

I really hope CRISPR works out and doesn't get banned by the government, but I can already kind of see how things will go down.

>something bad happens
>CRISPR loosely involved
>CRISPR gets blamed entirely
>Media goes apeshit about mad scientists playing God
>pearl-clutching catholics and bible thumping protestants vote against CRISPR being used
>CRISPR now outlawed
>There will never be 1000 year old sages
>There will never be 1000 lb lifting olympians
>There will never be 1000 iq savants
>Human race never gets to see its true potential

>>8582559
Hell of a thing to say considering there's evidence suggesting the universe is expanding exponentially.

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>>8589373
I think it will be used for bullshit vanity reasons, especially with social justice and all that. Just like that crazy doctor in Bioshock, you could theoretically "change your sex, change your race, its yours to change!" and that there would be "no excuse not to be beautiful"
>greatest advancement in human civilization capable of making disease and disabilities a thing of the past
>average schmuck with the IQ of a pigeon uses it to make themselves "pretty"
>queer community uses it to run away from their problems, since it would for some reason be better to fix the problem after it has occurred because muh feelz

I could probably go on
And before you tell me that it must be done BEFORE birth, how long do you think that will really be a limitation?

>>8576550
>What can I do to increase that chance?
Become incredibly wealthy and spend all your money on immortality research.

>>8576550

Have you ever experienced death? In the realm of your own experiences, is there any probability of experiencing death?

I would say no, when we die, we cease to perceive. Thus, the length of your life will always be the length of your life, regardless of beginning or end. Just as a meter is a meter and a kilo a kilo. It's a matter of defining the measurement.

>>8576577

if you would live for hundreds of years you would want to die.

>>8589733
And what do you want to say with that mongloid? Literally kill yourself then.

>>8589745
So what? Even if that fucking happens, so fucking what? I want to live for that long that I decide I want to die.

>>8589373
>There will never be 1000 lb lifting olympians
there are already madmen who can deadlift that

>>8589745
How do you know?

>>8586595
my sides

>>8586595
nice

>>8589350
Yeah?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu

How to deal with the dread and fear of knowing it will happen inevitably?

I'm not a bio guy and know nothing of CRISPR or nanotech, but OP, that's most likely your direction if you want to be immortal.

Assuming you're a 20 or so year old man now, most likely less since you're asking this on /sci/ instead of doing research 24/7 on this, you might be able to achieve something before your body fully breaks down to the point where immortality doesn't seem like a pleasant prospect anymore, maybe something temporary can be developed in 40-50 years if you're absolutely lucky. Bio's a fast moving field and many others share similar interest to you.

>>8589816
Yeah, but they have to train for that. Imagine that being the norm.

Also you're a faggot.

>>8589818
Because life is full of pain

>>8591183
What if I enjoyed pain, stress, and hardship on a daily basis?

>>8591202
then go for it

>>8591180
no u

>>8576550
1% chance we see immortality via emulating brains in computers (subjective experience ends) or sustaining brains in rudiemntary computerized vessels (subjective experience continues) within the next century.
0% chance we see gene modification creating biologically immortal humans in our life in the next century
25% chance we see incredibly expensive intensive procudures to extend the human lifespan to about 140 years of age

Better invest in cryogenics friendo

>>8591443
>0% chance
>Being a cryogentic shill

>>8591443
you sound like you are using a rigorous scientific method to come to that conclusion, i mean there are percentages and all

>>8591183
Life is also full of happy moments.

>>8576819
autism in its purest essence

Become a philosopher, like me, thbeefponC

>>8589745
W R O N G
R
O
N
G

> all these unimaginative unoriginal edgelords trying to bring their shitty philosophy here
This is hilarious lmao

This thread is too important for me to just let it die like that, so bump.

What about telomerese and telomerase research?
Is anyone here involved in it?

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>tfw no stirner memes in this thread

>>8593965
A few years ago (2012) or so some scientist extended the telomerese on mice and found they got younger.

The end result was cancer developing. It is possible for Humans to gain biological immortality, it's just that we will also get cancer.

>>8594047
I think there was another study contradicting the role of telomeres in cancer not so long ago

>>8591443
>0% chance we see gene modification creating biologically immortal humans in our life in the next century
Why?

>>8576550
Zero.
Nothing.

>>8593279
And how does that change the fact that I'm right?

!!! ATTENTION !!!

Immortality is impossible because that assumes that the universe will exist for an infinte amount of time, which it won't thanks due to heat death.

>>8594047
So you are saying that we should fuck over cancer first?

>I want to be immortal /sci/

Current theory suggests its impossible.

Elizabeth Blackburn has some online video lectures about telomeres.
She's an expert in the subject. I only watched the first video of four though.

>>8595146
Yes.

>>8595327
Watched them, they're pretty cool

>>8595104
this
what's the point of being extending life through CRISPR anyway? the faster you die, the less you suffer.

>>8596355
>Less you suffer.
This is under the impression that life doesn't have any form of happiness in it and that's struggle 24/7. So why don't you kill yourself?

The less you will suffer right.

>>8591183
Then why haven't you killed yourself yet? Or most of anyone else? Or all old people?

I've got a better question. When will we have a cure for retards like
>>8582550

These people with their autistic fantasy models of reality who are so full of themselves that they believe everyone has the same beliefs as them without any doubt.

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>be immortal
>live to see humans colonize mars
>live to see humans colonize the solar system
>live to see humans evolve into superhumans and colonize the milky way
>live to see superhumans colonize the local group
>live to see superhumans evolve into ethereals and colonize the universe
>live to see ethereals colonize the multiverse
>live to see ethereals run out of energy and the heat death of the multiverse
>live to see all worlds and dimensions burn out and collapse upon each other
>live to see everything return to infinite pre big bang blackness
>still alive
>entropy has run its course and theres nothing i can except exist in infinite black isolation
>im the only thing left in existence
>my suffering will literally never end
>pls kill me

>>8597184
>Heat death
>Sure thing when we know nothing about our universe.
>Multiverse
>Immortal
>Not existing outside space and time.

>>8597184
Just put the universe back together into a low entropy state. No hurry. You have all the time in the world.

>>8597191
>all dimensions
>>8597219
>bring the universe back on energy management mode
>it dies even more quickly
>bring it back again
>dies even more quickly
>repeat until it's functioning off an atom and flickering on for a nanosecond before dying each time

>>8576604
If you live in a shithole, maybe.

>>8591183
Philosofags really are this dramatic.