Politics aside, is there ANY agreed upon science when it comes

http://www.thenewatlantis.com/docLib/20160819_TNA50SexualityandGender.pdf

stealth eugenics

you think you're really a girl? sure u r, right this way we're going to remove your genitals because we're so progressive :^)

>>8544285

There exists a natural phenomenon called "genetics." The vast majority of humans are born with one of two sets of chromosomes: either XX or XY. If you have XX, you're a male. If you have XY, you're a female. If you have something else, you have a genetic disease.

This is science.

>>8544285
>is there ANY agreed upon science when it comes to transgender issues?
Mental illness.

>>8544290

I'm asking about whether there are agreed upon causes and treatments for so called sex dysphoria

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>>8544295
>Causes
Peer pressure
>Treatments
Benis in blender :DDD

>>8544294
It's no longer considered an illness by the DSM

>>8544290
>XX is male, XY is female
Other way around.

>>8544285
Is that NatGeo issue/article available online?

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>>8544289

>>8544305

that's what worries me. It's clearly a "mental illness", even if that makes people uncomfortable. I have to wonder if some solutions aren't being explored because they might be uncomfortable too.

>>8544305
The new DSM really disappoints me.

Legit question where do people who think they have gender dysphoria go for treatment? Is the average family doctor equipped/willing to treat it?

>>8544311
On the other hand, the stigma of the idea if mental illness creates an enormous distortion in society that does often translate into ableism. I don't mean to be an SJW but it's not like transgender people are an absolute treat to the human being of others, like severely autistic people or schizophrenics. Though I agree there could be more space for treatment.

>>8544290
>If you have XX, you're a male. If you have XY, you're a female.
>science and math

also if the sry gene translocated onto X you can still be male, it's mostly the sry gene that confers benis and balls. Secondary male physical traits will be fucked up without the rest of the Y chromosome though

>>8544323
To a trained psychologist with experience in gender issues.

They'll be able to help the person sort through their feelings and figure out if it's real dysphoria or just passing interest and can prescribe medications and bloodwork.

Family doctors don't have the training or experience for it.

>>8544330
To the being* autocorrect

>>8544295
>and treatments for so called sex dysphoria
Transition is the only treatment that has ever been shown to have any long-term efficacy for alleviating dysphoria.

>>8544285
What science are you looking for? Its glaringly obvious that some people feel more comfortable dressing as the opposite gender. All it comes down to is if you are comfortable allowing them to do that.

>>8544337
No, trannies still kill themselves.

If you want to be gay, be gay. If you want to be straight, be straight.

You can't be a girl when you're born as a man. You have to learn how to deal with it.

>>8544339

I don't really care about the societal aspects of this issue. I guess talking about the causes is interesting, but I want to know about the treatment options. National Geographic is encouraging hormone treatments for transgender children in their issue to block puberty

>>8544339
wew lad

there is a massive difference between trannys and guys playing dress up

>>8544347
Dysphoria is never 100% alleviated, and while they do still kill themselves, they do so less frequently and less quickly if they've started to transition.

XY = Male
XX = female

if shota cant consent to sex why can he consent to radically altering his body with hormones

>>8544361
They don't "transition" into anything, they just mutilate their bodies to look like females.

Why do trans people bother you so much, /sci/? They literally have zero influence on your daily lives and I doubt any of you even know trans people

XXX=Sexy times ;D

Transsexual here,

The claim that there's some lobby pushing kids into transition couldn't be further from the truth, in fact it's the total opposite, the medical establishment tries their hardest to prevent people changing their gender. If any of you actually read about the process we have to go through then you wouldn't think it's something done on a whim. For instance the NHS refuses any treatment until yoou complete some process called "Real life experience". In a nutshell you have to go outside dressed as a woman for a year, they require this knowing full well that you're likely to be abused or beaten up. Also when it comes to children any surgery and HRT is outright banned by most medical establishments all they may get is puberty blockers the effects of which are reversible.

At the end of the day even if you think the whole thing is a fashion trend, nobody is being hurt by transsexuals so leave us alone. I feel that conservatives have lost the argument against adult transsexuals because they're you know adults so they latch on to the child issue making up stories of "evil fags trying to turn kids" in another attempt to discredit us.

>>8544385
I don't know any cartel hitmen and I probably never will but their existence is certainly a cause for concern.

>>8544385
/pol/ comes here to validate their beliefs with "science". That's why we get all the racebait threads as well.

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>>8544289

>>8544394

bullshit. I even started the thread by saying that they advocate just as much as LGBT activists.

>>8544385
This is true but lets not forget that trans activists are actively trying to pass legilation that makes it illegal for you to misgender them.

ILLEGAL I repeat. Fucking illegal. You call them a boy out of spite and they happen to identify as a demigirl and you go right into prison.

So right now they have no effect, but because of having this mentality of "they affect nothing" we are litting them go wild in political and social spaces and soon they will be able to affect everything.

>Why do nazis bother you so much /sci/? They literally have zero influence on your daily lives and I doubt any of you even know a nazi. That Hitler guy even got sent to jail last week. What is he going to do while in jail lol. Write a book that inspires the masses of the next generation into becoming rampant bigots? Naah. That is ridiculous ;^)

If someone feels like their gender isn't right, who am I to say that isn't true? There's obviously something going on in their brain that affects their self perception. I think there will be a lot more research on this stuff in the coming years, but I imagine it's sorta similar to being gay. I've seen some studies on twins, and when one is gay, the other is significantly more likely to be gay, and when one is straight... etc. I'm sure it's genetic, though, is what I'm saying.

Honestly, I just want people to be happy, so I'm all for people being trans, non binary, whatever.

>>8544403
you need to stop paying attention to deliberately misinterpreted /pol/ stories

>>8544403
>comparing transsexuals to Nazis
This is what happens when maths students start thinking they are good at rhetoric because they are good at maths
Anyway as for the rest of your post think about it this way; the state diagnosed the person with a mental illness, gave them treatment (a sex change) This is public money spent in the hope that this person can become a functioning meber of society and then some bigoted asshole fucks it up by bullying the patient. This is why they are enacting these laws.

>>8544403
Do you think all trans people want this legislation passed or something? I imagine that the amount of people who do want it passed are something like .01% of the trans population. It's not like that will ever get passed anyways, so don't get too worked up.

The only trans people I've ever met were treated horribly by every one around them, and they were incredibly nice whenever I spoke to them. Maybe if we just showed them more love and stopped comparing them to nazis, we'd all be friendlier and happier.

>>8544406
>deliberately misinterpreted /pol/ stories

There was an interview between a trans activist and a university professor who opposed the SJW movement in general.

The trans activist explicitly said their end goal is to make it illegal to misgender people because misgendering is a form of violence, according to them.

I don't have the source but if you want it I can dig through Sargon of Akkad's videos because he has commentary of it on his channel.

>>8544412
I am not comparing them to nazis. I am showing why your argument of "they affect nothing" is fallacious.

I even thought of using something else because I predicted your low ass IQ thinking that I was calling you a nazi but then said "No, this is /sci/. You need a 3 digit IQ to come here. This guy will get it"

But nope.

Anyways, the essence of the argument is here: Changes in power occur.

Right now trans have no power. Soon they could have it... or not. It all depends. Someone who is a leader today is dead tomorrow and someone else takes place.

If Hillary had won to please her SJW crowd she probably would have pushed some SJW legislation, giving their power. And she was close to winning.

Never forget that. Shifts in power happen literally every day. Every day some people become weaker and others become stronger.

I use to hold my pee really long I order to kill myself long term.

>>8544420
EVERYBODY WATCH OUT. THE TRANS PEOPLE ARE GOING TO TAKE OVER AMERICA AND KICK OUT ALL THE STRAIGHT PEOPLE.

Stop falling for fear mongering tactics. Trans people aren't going to hurt you.

>>8544420
>If Hillary had won to please her SJW crowd she probably would have pushed some SJW legislation, giving their power.
hmm yeah sure

>>8544420
one person with a stick up their ass does not represent the whole community

>>8544417
>Do you think all trans people want this legislation passed or something?

I can't prove that so no.

But some do want that, and I can prove that. And if they ever get that then even those transexual people who did not want the law will benefit for it.

Angry at someone? Cry they misgendered you and get them into prison.

Personally I don't care about transitions. I am not like most people here. I am a hardcore liberal and couldn't give a shit. I just do not want them to also have political privileges and every single time a single trans activist pushes for political privileges I care even less about trans people's issues because if a trans person is so privileged that he has time to even ask for political privileges then obviously trans people can't be having it that bad.

I mean, if trans people were being fucking murdered left and right do you think they would complain about "misgendering". They wouldn't. They would complain about the fucking killers who are genociding them.

Obviously trans people now have exclusively first world problems and are not worth caring about anymore. The 90s and early 2000s are gone. Your movement already won, stop.

>>8544389
Interesting. Now post pics.

when i was younger, i was pretty much into becoming transgender because i felt that i didn't look right or that i didn't look like my born gender. i really did hate myself and im still trying to love myself again.

what im saying is that when you have gender dystopia, transitioning will not help. maybe for some, but for me, what helped me get better was self-love, not change.
although, i did change what was changeable, i came to terms with the fact that im not perfect and im not beautiful. i was born with brown eyes as in that i was born with my natural genitals.

if i became the opposite gender, i would still be ugly. it won't help... only temporarily give you peace because you are confused. love what you were born with and change what you can. i changed my style and how i did my hair, but i couldn't change my nose because i was born with it (another aspect of myself that i didn't really like.)

the idea of transgenderism though is 100% nurture. i was put down and called ugly, even by the people who were most close to me. i wasn't born transgender because i was able to change my attitude instead of my gender. transgenderism is the most unnatural thing a human can do and that could be what is interesting to us because when we crave change, anything works.

but im not a scientist so idk

/pol/ get out
gender is fake

>>8544425
I sure the first indians said exactly that about the first white people in america and obviously, some cucks like you said "Nooo, obviously no."

I am so glad we still live in the indian colonies. I am personally from the Xjahaha tribe. So fun. There are 0 white people here lol. Those people were right! White people didn't take over america by gaining political power!

White settlers gained political power... and then did nothing with it and went back to europe! SO FUN RIGHT.

HISTORY

LETS FORGET HISTORY.

>>8544427
Tell that to the media and to universities.

Case in point: micro aggressions.

>>8544420
Also, you definitely did compare trans people to Nazis. Did you read what you wrote? You were comparing the dangers of trans people to that of Nazis. Maybe you just don't read a lot, though, and if that's not what you meant, then fine, but that is 100% how your message comes across.

Just read it again if you don't believe me.

>>8544436
Nazis are a counter example for your argument.

You claimed that because trans people have no power now, we don't have to worry about them.

I showed you the example of nazis, who at one point had 0 power and were even oppressed by the government... and then became the leading party of the country, controlling every branch of it and the military.

That is how power shifts kid. Saying that "they affect nothing" is not an argument.

>>8544431
>what im saying is that when you have gender dystopia, transitioning will not help. maybe for some
on how many levels of denial are you

go transition, jesus

>>8544428
Do you seriously think a trans person would get elected into power if that was their platform? You do realize it's not that easy to pass a law(checks and balances) and also that trans people represent less than 1 percent of the population, right?

>>8544420
Your arguments are so stupid that even /sci/ which is usually a pretty right wing place is telling you that you're an idiot, think about that.

>>8544365
Can someone answer this.

>>8544438
Interesting, interesting.
What do you think should be done about stormfront, 4pol, 8pol and the like?

They have more power than the trannies currently.

>>8544365
>>8544444
Agreed. Mones should only be allowed at 15-16 years of age - a balance between starting early and consent age.

>>8544444
nobody replies because the answer is obviously that they shouldn't be allowed.

>>8544443
>Your arguments are so stupid that even /sci/ which is usually a pretty right wing place is telling you that you're an idiot, think about that.

Fun comment. What I take out of it is that you assume right wing people and opinions are dumb and because I am being scolded by them I am even dumber.

Well, isn't that a nice way to NOT do politics. You just assume your opposition is retarded.

Why do you think right wing people are dumber? Why can you just assume that?

>>8544446
Those people are equivalent to trans activists. A bunch of supremacists trying to get power to enact their power fantasies.

What should we do about them? Call them out. Every single time they say something ridiculous, call them out. Just like I call out the bullshit trans activists say.

A supremacist is a supremacist, no matter what brand they are.

>>8544449

the only argument these parents have for starting an "early transition" is to make them look more like the opposite sex. By 15-16 that would be too late according to their reasoning.

>>8544449
>>8544450
But isn't the idea catching and starting to be considered the only way to "truly" transition?

I mean the kid in the op picture seems pre pubesecent

>>8544449
Do you really think your 16 year old self was mature enough to make this kind of decision?
At 16 my mother had convinced me to take anti-depressants, but thankfully the therapist never prescribed them (despite her pushing for it). Now looking back I know they'd fuck me up. I'm so glad things turned out the way they did.

Parents and children are not to be entrusted with these kinds of decisions.

>>8544285
not science
>>>/trash/

>>8544452
I'm not trying to bash on right wing people, but haven't there been some studies to confirm that left wing people are (on average) more intelligent and better educated. Again, not trying to shit on your beliefs.

Also, I really think you're overly concerned with this 1 trans person who said something ridiculous. They won't overthrow our government. Stop worrying.

>>8544458
But they're not, again this whole furore is borne out of gross oversimplification. The kid has to go through a shitload of psychiatric assesments before even being allowed to see blockers. They then only get hormones once they're a consenting adult and finally even adults aren't allowed surgery untill they've been living as a woman for three years. So the claim of parents deciding to take their kid to a surgeon to have his dick chopped off after just a bedside chat is bullshit.

>>8544456
>By 15-16 that would be too late according to their reasoning.
>according to their own reasoning.
Not really, honestly, I guess you could lower it to 14 at the earliest. Humans are sexually mature by that age anyway, at least human females.
>>8544457
Starting at 14 or 15 or 16 will make them feminine enough, the best trannies started then, it's early enough.
>>8544458
Agreed, let the doctor be involved in the decision whether to prescribe hormones.

I'm a med student, I honestly would've handed you anti-depressants and anyone who wants hormones hormones, though I'm not sure the legality of that in my country. It's such a huge waste of time to worry about psychology and feelings and bla bla bla bla, you won't die from it stop wasting my time, here's your pills, now let me take care of the guy who's really ill.

>>8544470
based on left wing """research""" ?

>>8544472
if they can consent to blockers why can't they consent to sex

>>8544477
I mean, probably. Feel free to find the study and critique it for me, but it kinda makes sense when you look at how liberal most university campuses are, right? Again, I'm really not trying to call right wing people stupid.

>>8544487
>when you look at how liberal most university campuses are, right?
Argument from personal anecdotes ?

>>8544494
oh come on, obviously he's correct on that one

>>8544472
The problem is that many young psychologists aren't real people, they're literally living memes. They probably waited for 5-10 years to finally shove hormones down someone's throats, ever since that "selecting a gender identity" class in college.

>>8544498
Majority of the students and educated people don't shift to a side, they stay centrists.
Although I saw lots of unemployed, no education SJWtards shitting all around the streets and becoming laughing stocks, I rarely see any skinheads or alt-right activists.

>>8544494
Yeah, obviously that's a personal anecdote. I'm not trying to shit on right wing people or make a serious argument that they're less intelligent or anything. Go find some studies and come back to me b/c I'm curious about this all anyways.

Are there any colleges that are known for being much more right-wing? I'm genuinely curious.

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If the transitions are so beneficial when successful, what's the massive suicide rate about?

>>8544507
I dunno. Here in the South, I saw lots of trump rallies with dudes driving big trucks with confederate flags that would shit up the place. I'd hear them loudly complaining about n-word music(while blasting their own shit) and being generally obnoxious. Probably depends on where you live, but I have never seen any activism/protesting/whatever done by the left.

>>8544480
We're talking about medical treatment here, please stop with these shitty analogies.
>>8544501
>Hurr parents are turning their kids into fags for fun!
>Ok let's have a trained professional psychiatrist make that decision
>Hurr the psychiatrist is a Jew tool!
And if you read this >>8544389 you'd see that psychiatrists are actually biased against transition

>>8544513

do they still kill themselves at the same rates if they feel sex dysphoria but decide not to "transition"? This info needs to be more widely available, especially for parents

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>>8544517
If you live in the south you probably won't. Come to Cali and see the libtard cancer with your own eyes.

>>8544518
so you can't answer why a 9 year old can't consent to sex but can consent to hormone blockers.

okay.

>>8544513
the suicide rate is still very high, but not as high as it was before

strong dysphoria in someone who doesn't transition is a near-guarantee of suicide. strong dysphoria in someone who transitions ends up being something like a 10% bump to the usual probability of suicide

I think that people should be allowed to generally do what they want with their own bodies.
However
>surgery/hormones at a very young age is hypocritical (see: age of consent) and indicative of shitty parenting
>surgery/hormones should be the last option explored after thoroughly examining other possible causes of the patient's beliefs

Also, if this is a "natural" human conceit then why is it only recently becoming a serious issue? Increased prevalence in media/society causing backlash from people unused to transsexuals? For such a small percentage of the population, why do we hear so much about them? Why are people lobbying for "transsexual rights" when the same basic human rights that everyone enjoys apply to them?
i just don't get it desu

>>8544523
Obnoxious trump supporters vs obnoxious libtards. Round 1. Fight!

>>8544531
Yeah, I don't get it either. Maybe it's a way to misdirect young people's interest in social equality away from real problems, like poverty, nepotism and wealth concentration.

>>8544513
I think the attutudes in this thread answer your question.

>>8544518
>shitty analogies
I'm sure you understand yet choose to ignore the age of consent issue. Aside from the desperate attempt to pave the way for legitimizing pedophilia, there's a reason why underage teens don't get driving licenses, don't get served alcohol and consent to having sex.

>>8544285
>special issue
that it is. special ed. loooooooooool

>>8544543
it's not even teenagers. teenagers can consent. 14 year old girls can carry pregnancies to term.

these jerkoffs want to give hormone blockers to 10 year old boys because they put on a dress on once.

>>8544531
>Also, if this is a "natural" human conceit then why is it only recently becoming a serious issue?
I've wondered the same, it could be it's always been there as an issue, but only recently starting to come up - there's been gays, crossdressers historically - so they came up with the idea of calling it a disorder, gender dysphoria etc.

But yeah, certainly what is considered female - big boobs, nice ass, heels, as feminine as possible is amplified by culture. Literally all crossdressers(admittedly not trannies) dress like total whores - you get what I mean?

>>8544553
>underages can consent to sex
Where do you live? I wanna check the laws of the state you live in and how they approach to having underage sex.

>>8544531
Man for a board supposedly full of geniuses the ignorance in this thread is astounding
>I think that people should be allowed to generally do what they want with their own bodies.
Good at least you're not a /pol/ asshole
>surgery/hormones at a very young age is hypocritical (see: age of consent) and indicative of shitty parenting
But this never happens, I said it like five times already
>surgery/hormones should be the last option explored after thoroughly examining other possible causes of the patient's beliefs
Why? In fact I'd argue that it should be the first option. Hurts nobody, proven success rate, low cost. What are the negatives?
>Also, if this is a "natural" human conceit then why is it only recently becoming a serious issue?
C'mon you're a STEM student you should be smarter than this, increased media exposure =/= increased prevalence
>Why are people lobbying for "transsexual rights" when the same basic human rights that everyone enjoys apply to them?
I mean this entire thread has been full of people calling them "sick freaks" and you wonder why they need activism?

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If gender is a social construct why do you need hormones and surgery in the first place?

Why do you need to wear a dress and take estrogen to become a "real" woman?

>>8544543
>In every argument about LGBT paedophiles will be mentioned
Is this some kind of new Godwin's law?

>>8544559
>pedophile apologist in closet
How do I report people on this board for being a possible child molester ?

>>8544561
But it's not that's why feminists hate transsexuals because they debunk the social construct theory.

>>8544557
i said teenagers not "underages"

>>8544559
At what age do you think these kids should be allowed to take any sort of meds?

>>8544568
but I said underages and you quoted me. Anyway it's all about the age of consent, which should also apply to unconsentual hormonal abuse of the children.

>>8544559
>I mean this entire thread has been full of people calling them "sick freaks" and you wonder why they need activism?
I wouldn't call them sick freaks but they're literally (LITERALLY) not normal functioning humans.
And I don't mean they're like people who go on 4chan. People who undergo sex-change surgery cannot produce offspring. When technology improves so that they're able to do so, will they be more or less maligned? I dunno. But I think the backlash against them is completely understandable.

>>8544570
Blockers are reversible so 14+ maybe. As for estrogen or testosterone IDK it's a contentious issue. With female to male transsexual this isn't so much of an issue but with male to female unless you do it pre puberty you're gonna turn out shit.

>>8544578
>with male to female unless you do it pre puberty you're gonna turn out shit.
That is false though.

>>8544576
>People who undergo sex-change surgery cannot produce offspring
Why is this relevant? Neither can sterile people
>But I think the backlash against them is completely understandable
Really? Against a bunch of people who don't hurt anybody?

>>8544337
have they tried electroshock?

>>8544559
You wonder why people call pedophilia enablers sick freaks and you try to claim some kind of moral highground here? Are you fucking retarded?

I hope they raid your house already and jail you for life. You already know you are a sick freak, you should atleast own it.

>>8544578
>blockers are reversible.
That would be true only if your hormone levels were constant, but they aren't.
And even still prove they are reversible. Hormone levels in the womb for instance don't fix themselves in puberty. Development happens once.

Fucking shill.

>>8544561
Being a transsexual means that there's some difference in your brain between what it expects your body to be and what your body is, and that cognitive dissonance is incredibly destructive.

There's no inherent reason social gender roles have to be tied to the reality of sexual identity, but our culture has inextricably linked them together and basically brainwashed us into believing that they're the same thing.

People transition socially because being treated as the biological sex is a reminder of the difference between their biological and mental identities, and that causes the dysphoria they feel over that difference to flare back up.

>>8544584
yes, it's been tried. doesn't work.

>>8544579
Ok maybe not guaranteed shit but there's a chance of it + you will be clockable from being taller with bigger hands and face

>>8544581
Well... they're certainly hurting themselves.

>>8544591
Even that will not be true in most cases, male puberty is delayed, there is enough place to wait for age of consent.

I am not a authority on this issue nor do I speak as a medical professional, but I feel transsexualism, like homosexuality, is a mental disorder. Mentally, the idea that someone feels they are a man although they have a women's body makes sense from this mental illness perspective. Either due to biological factors (e.g. brain developed differently or chemical pathways didn't function property) or social impact the idea of a someone having a "female" brain in a male body or vice versa is possible because of some failure to develop properly. It isn't "healthy" in my mind. That said being ADHD, autistic, or having PTSD isn't "healthy" in my mind either. It doesn't mean those people should be stigmatized. Learning how to cope with the mental disorder or treat it should be the objective instead. That doesn't mean it should be normalized and I do feel that some transsexual persons are more deluded than ill (e.g. the pan-fluid-xir tumblr tier genders or the transpecies). Again, being "ill" isn't bad.

>>8544605
Nah, I don't really mind indulging deluded people as long as they don't hurt me and it isn't on my tax dollars - who isn't deluded, people believe all kinds of things.

Have them pay for their procedures and hormones themselves etc.

>>8544592
Funny that /pol/ is pro-circumcision which is done on babies against their consent while hating on gender reassignment which is done on adults with their consent and makes them feel happier.
>>8544605
> Learning how to cope with the mental disorder or treat it should be the objective instead
Congratulations on being the first person ever to think of this! Only you didn't and conversion therapy has been proven not to work. Call it modern tumblr science but it's even written in my 1984 encyclopaedia. We've known this for 30 years.

>>8544289
Topkek, m8

>>8544633
>Funny that /pol/ is pro-circumcision
You're basing this assumption on... ?

>>8544633
>/pol/ is pro-circumcision
You really are retarded, aren't you?

>>8544644
>>8544643
Hi
>>>/pol/
bye

>>8544649
"oh no he called me on my bullshit better tell him to leave"

>>8544649
it seems you belong to >>>/pol/ since you can't stop yourself from sucking their cock SJWtard.

>>8544620
I probably should have differed "ill" from "deluded" more properly. Being "ill" would be more "genuine" as in error in chemical pathways during puberty, where "deluded" would be more "I think Sally is a boy because she plays with G.I. Joe" or "I think I am hedgehog because I like Sonic". I agree deluded people can do what they want to themselves out of their own pocket, so long as it isn't to others (SRS for a child for instance) or otherwise impacts society.
>>8544633
I wasn't implying I was proposing novel ideas. Also I didn't intend for "treatment and coping" to be synonymous with conversion therapy. SRS or HRT could be a valid form of treatment/coping in my mind.

>Gender dysphoria is legitimate
>But other forms of it aren't
Often I literally feel strange while walking as if my legs aren't my proper ones and that my mode of locomotion is something else entirely.
I recognize this as insane because there's no fucking way that I have a "real" alternative form of walking unless something like souls are real and my soul is non-humanoid.

trannies make me uncomfortable I'm truly sorry you're convinced you're a women but please stop talking about it and trying to normalize it


REEEEEEEE

>>8544674
I bet you're a attack-helicopter-phobic as well you intolerant bigot.

>>8544633
>funny x
I smell /pol/ard-tier babble.

Keep your autism over there >>>/8gag/

>>8544719
>SJWtard tears
stop posting

>>8544295

>psychology
>science

>>8544285
The kid in the picture is way too young to go transgender. I don't think I could trust myself at that age with decisions half as critical.

>>8544724
Not an argument.
>>8544725
Nice one.
>>8544995
That's /pol/-tier shitposting for you.

instead of chopping off the kid's dick why don't they just give him more testosterone because chances are that's what he's lacking?

People are dying of curable diseases and poverty is rampant and this is what we concern ourselves with.

>>8545014
usually makes them more likely to commit suicide, not less

Here's the science you shitlords:

SOME GIRLS HAVE BIG HAIRY DICKS
MUH
FEE
FEES

>>8544285
There's not very much but I think this is relevant.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer
http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/1961to1999/1997-sex-reassignment.html
It's just a case study so obviously take it with a grain of salt, but it does suggest that gender is something innate in the brain. This kid was raised female but still FELT he was male. Given this, it's not hard to imagine that a few people are born with a condition that causes their innate psychological gender not to match their genitals/chromosomes.

>>8544433
Unless all the trans people are gonna give the Xjahaha tribe smallpox, I don't see the status quo changing any time soon. You're really underestimating how pussily bad your people were susceptible to disease.
But then again, you guys got beaten by Englishmen gone rogue, I don't know why I expected anything better.

>>8544389
But wouldn't you prefer a pill that alleviates the dysphoria rather than going through hrt and the chop shop?

And if that's the case, then pretending it isnt a mental illness but instead some sacred identity just holds back research from making that pill or something similar.

I think trannys should be able to do what they want so long as they only hurt themselves. But we should be working on a less invasive, more effective solution for people with sex dysphoria who just want to live a normal life in the body they were born as.

>>8544285
Someones gender isn't any more significant as someones preference of icecream flavor. And it's definitely not science nor math

>>>/trash/

>>>/trash/

>>>/trash/

>>8544286
underrated post

http://www.livescience.com/44906-female-insect-with-penis-found.html

Hm...

>>8544285

What's the statistics when it comes to which gender wants to be what?

I get the feeling that it's mostly men who want to change sex.

>male
>female
>abnormal

What's your stance on Intersex?
In my opinion they really do get to choose as they would have both, or neither.

Science itself doesn't distinct between right or wrong, but only between valid and invalid.
Anomalities are solely irregularities, they're not ''abnormal'' just because a scientist might feel icky.

>>8544285
no, unless you count feelings

>>8544289
It's like 4AM here, and I'm holding my sides not to wake the whole building.

I have not seen any evidence that there is a region of the brain like the sexual dimorphic nucleus but separate which can distinguish cisgender homosexual from trangender homosexuals.

Even if someone supports a good cause it can still a source of bias, I believe the right thing to do is to tell the truth regardless of someone's feelings on a controversial issue. From what I have seen I would suggest people suffering from gender dysphoria try address the frustration and anxiety they have towards their bodies before going to extremes. You should also be skeptical of professionals who have a financial interest in promoting plastic surgery and hormone replacement therapy.

>Come to /sci/ in hopes of escaping stupid conversations about gender.
>See this.
>Nooooooo!

>>8544333
What is 'real' dysphoria defined as and how is it differentiated from 'false' dysphoria?

>>8545415
What's the point? HRT is way cheaper than antipsychotic med research. This is the entire problem, there is a proven and cheap cure, some hormone pills and mini guillotine, yet society wants the medical establishment to spend time and money researching a different cure just becuase they don't like the sound of the current one despite the patients themselves being perfectly happy with it. Really retarded if you think about it.
>>8545014
oooh bad idea, they are distressed due to looking male therefore making them look even more male will make them even more distressed
>>8545043
/sci/ will ignore this

>>8544306
triggers me that you'd point that out, as if genders are different fucking bigot.

>>8544392
Because they kill people.

>>8544402
He is saying they are inevitably in the thread, not that you are one of them.

>>8544412
It is a comparison, meaning that they are two different things, that have similarities. There would be no reason to compare something to itself. You may have certain mental deficits if you do not understand what a comparison is at this point.

>>8544473
>Humans are sexually mature by that age anyway
Isn't that a reason to start before that age?
>the best trannies started then
The best trannies are dead.

>>8544311
> It's clearly a mental disorder because I feel like it is.
Ftfy

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>>8544289

All differences between "male" and "female" are entirely cultural. I don't see what's the big deal with fixing that.

>>8544385
>thread is about the science behind trannies
>"Hurr why are you attacking me with your facts"
Make like a tranny and off yourself.

i want the amount of qt traps to go up.

>>8544385
I know two trans people.
One is a male that grew up in a religiously oppressive household and the other is a female that beats women because she can't control her temper and "I don't get in trouble because the police don't see it as a man doing it."

She got into a fight with her girlfriend while we were on a business trip, to the point that hotel guests on the floor were asking me about it. I told her next time she wants to fight she's doing it with another man and she cut the bullshit for the rest of the trip. Work still didn't fire her though because they didn't want to get in trouble for giving a trans employee the boot.

>>8544285
>>8544295
Since the 80s there have been medical guide lines and research into the treatment transgender patients.

I think the separation of sex from gender makes the issue not fall within the scope of science.

>>8544285
Whatever that thing is in the pic, it's pretty sexy

>>8545907
>All differences between "male" and "female" are entirely cultural.

yeah except for genes, hormones, metabolism.

Besides, you're probably right. Men will find a way to no longer require women to reproduce. Test tube babies already exist, and they just passed legislation allowing designer babies.

Might as well just go ahead and rip the bandaid off and let the weaker sex go the way of the dodo.

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>>8544285
Steal eugenics.

>Oh, do you put your own feelings above all else? Right this way, let us cut off your genitals.

>>8544330
They're a threat to themselves. Look at the attempted suicide rate: 41%.
They need medical classification so that they can get actual help instead of being ignored.

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>Its totally his own choice

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>>8545653
Having your genitals chopped off and your body pumped with hormones make you lack the ability to produce offspring. How does it feel to end your lineage? I talk from a purely animalistic and utilitarian perspective here.

>>8545678
>triggers me
Ok.
>no differences in males and females
Brainlet.
As another anon on this thread pointed out, and what genetics, anthropology, and medical science has discovered, there are huge variences b/w genders. Genitals being the obvious difference, along with metabolism, psychology, physical appearance, etc.

>>8545907
Pretty sure you're the same anon I "triggered" earlier. Go back to some other idiot board, or if you're baiting, pls kys

>>8547509
Might as well ask any dude who gets a vasectomy.

>>8548851
>dude

>>8544385
>Why do you have opinions on things that don't affect you
I think the Iraq War was retarded but since it didn't affect me personally I guess I shouldn't care about it.

>>8544541
>Attitudes
Shouldn't the suicide rates of LGB people be high too, not just the T?

>>8544285
I'm sorry you didn't get any educated answer OP.

iirc before the Progressive Left took over shilling in the media for trans-rights and trans-whatever, most psychologists and relevant medical doctors or pharmacists agreed that hormone treatment and surgical options were an absolute last "Not to be used unless absolutely required" option.

Now it's magnitudes times easier to change your sex, not saying it's instantly easy if you want to but most of those people complaining that they have it so hard going on a <one year trial before starting theory is oppressive really haven't seen the very conclusive data;

almost all psychologists and psychoanalysts agreed that hormone and surgical treatments drastically increased mental health issues that weren't a problem, or were very small beforehand

as such trans suicide rates (per capita) have skyrocketed. We're talking thousands of percents after treatment has been opened to the public. What's worse is that all these people who had a solid consensus are now muzzled and basically any papers or studies done get canned before publishment or word reaches public ear.

Whether or not you agree with transexuality being a mental disorder or not, getting trans treatment almost guarantees 1/3 - 2/5 people will commit suicide.

A note for any social apologist: Trans suicide rates are not causative or correlative to public treatment, in fact on the whole society has become magnitudes times more accepting and compensating for these people yet suicides keep going up. Public bullying and violent instances have decreased significantly yet suicides keep going up.

Literally anyone with highschool statistics knowledge could conclude pretty quickly that the treatments are a major cause and just about any practicing doctor related to the field would probably tell you it's almost certainly the cause (in private off the record, of course. Wouldn't want to have THE WRONG opinion).

>>8548880
I don't really care, I'm just m a d that the scientists and researches have been muzzled on the issue because IT IS [CURRENT YEAR].

It's the exact same thing when "right" wing governments or media attempt to muzzle climate scientists to further THEIR agenda. Yet the left won't see it that way because they've disillusioned themselves into thinking that their "progressiveness" is somehow on a different spectrum than the right wings "obvious extremism and denial-ism".

Scientists under any circumstance should never be muzzled. There is no moral grounds whatsoever to stop research because it makes you uncomfortable. This applies across the board.

>>8544290
>>8544363

Not completely true. There are some rare cases where a XX chromosome expresses as a male.

>>8544305
Gender dysphoria is still a thing, it's just that the definition has changed.

>>8544311
>clearly is

I'm not really against pathologizing it, but you've got no argument there brah.

>>8544337
Wonder if there are studies on talk therapy. Maybe contemporary Gestalt or psychodynamic therapy could help them?
>>8544559
>Why? In fact I'd argue that it should be the first option. Hurts nobody, proven success rate, low cost. What are the negatives?

You can't talk shit about how effective other treatments are, treatments in dysphoria are still relatively new and we don't know what procedures should be best. It's also NOT low cost, even with surgery you're still looking at a life-long hormone ingestion because your body and genetics will still express as your born sex.

>>8544311
Society was doomed since they deemed homosexuality as not a mental illness. Now we are on the slippery slope. Get ready for the normalization of pedophilia and beastiality, it has already been happening for a couple years now.

>>8548866
They are, depression and suicide rates for GL people is about half as much as trans people.

Actually, the risk for those things is almost directly inversely related to the degree of gender non-conforming behaviour because that is specifically what causes ostracization

>>8547509
>How does it feel to end your lineage?
Feels okay, there's nothing particularly special about my genes so I don't feel concerned for not passing them. That being said it's not gonna stop me from forming a family since I'm still gonna adopt some qt kids

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>>8548880
>as such trans suicide rates (per capita) have skyrocketed
Not true

>getting trans treatment almost guarantees 1/3 - 2/5 people will commit suicide.
Again, absolutely not true
The one shitty study that claimed a 2/5 figure was ATTEMPTED suicide rate, not actualized amount. It was done on a group of trannies that transitioned during the 70s-80s when public exposure and techniques were still pretty shitty. The actual author of that study has since come out and claimed that the results have been misinterpreted by people hostile to trans acceptance and that the figures are not an accurate reflection of the treatment because there was no proper control group.
Saying 1/3 will commit suicide is even more ridicolous, you're deluded

>Public bullying and violent instances have decreased significantly yet suicides keep going up.
[citation needed]

>Literally anyone with highschool statistics knowledge could conclude pretty quickly that the treatments are a major cause
Going on /pol/ and reading shitty infographics does not make you an authority on any of this shit you idiot

>>8544420
>some trans person said something unethical and now I project this anecdotal evidence onto a heavily shamed group of people that represent < 4% of the population.
>the trans community, with its high suicide rate, rate of murder, and slim minority numbers, is equivalent to an ultranationalist populist uprising lead by a highly-organized political party taking advantage of economic disaster and disdain for the international community
Do you even know how ridiculous you actually sound? You can't "become" trans like you can become Nazi.

>>8544361
[citation needed]

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Gender isn't real. Sex is real. The only human sexes are male, female, and mutant. These sexes are a part of the material world and are not determined by human feelings and interpretations. End of story.

>>8549042
>Gender isn't real.
Aww, did the psychologists hurt you feelings?

The hormones you are exposed to in the womb decide which gender you will identify as later in life.


How can you treat gender dysphoria?
Sex reassignment surgery is currently the best option. It is sub-par but better than nothing.


How can we better understand gender dysphoria? Find out what is causing the hormone imbalance in the womb.

>>8549050
Gender is a human idea and nothing more.

Point to empirical proof of gender and then we will talk.

>>8549053
There is no good evidence that supports the in-utero differentiation hypothesis for trans people
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21467211

Their brains do not show reliable differences in dimorphism

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>>8549057
Sex is also socially constructed, there is no reliable definition for it

>>8549068
>Spheres are totally to size
>Totally representative of numbers
>Le venn diagram

Post yfw sex is quite literally determined by Chromosomes and nothing but chromosomes. Even a guy born with a Vagina is still a dude if he has XY chromosomes.
>Sex is also socially constructed
>>>Tumblr
>>>/trash/

>there is no reliable definition for it
>no reliable definition

Maybe if you're a fucking moron, sure.

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>>8549075
>sex is chromosomes
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2190741/

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>>8549068
Nice chart, but you are wrong. The definition of sex is simple: males have XY chromosome pairs, females have XX, and anything beyond is mutant. The chromosome pairs exist in the observable world, gender does not.

GG. Now go back to whatever unemperical cave you crawled out of.

>>8549060
We require more research before we conclude anything in particular.

>>8549082
Defining sex by chromosomes is not particularly useful since they do not determine phenotype, behavioural proclivity or reproductive ability, not to mention they're too small to be casually seen meaning they are absolutely useless as far as regular social interactions go.

>muh empirical troofs!!
lol

>>8549088
I just doubt they're ever going to be able to find something specific about the brains of trans people that can be consistently diagnosed. The experience of dysphoria and it's associated negative consequences is entirely too subjective and distributed around the entire brain

>>8549082
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18000096

>A 46,XY mother who developed as a normal woman underwent spontaneous puberty, reached menarche, menstruated regularly, experienced two unassisted pregnancies, and gave birth to a 46,XY daughter with complete gonadal dysgenesis.

what do you classify this as?

>>8549096
outliers

my goodness are you people retarded.

>>8549091
99.9999999% of the time the functional SRY does. wow so you have some outliers.

>>8549091
Epilepsy is a blanket term for a group of neurological disorders marked by "excessive and abnormal brain activity". It can be caused by caused by genetic disorders or by injury.

Transgenderism may be the same in that it may be multiple different conditions covered by a blanket term.

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>>8549091
> Defining sex by chromosomes is not particularly useful since they do not determine phenotype, behavioural proclivity or reproductive ability

Wrong, wrong, and wrong!

Phenotype: Chromosome pairs generally determine gentailia. Any straying from this can be traced back to a failure to properly express the gametes.

Behavior: Behavior is more complex because individuals can stray from the norm, but the expressions of the sex chromosomes are still ever-present. Observe birds of paradise and their songs, dogs and their packs, or humans and our sex-related crime rate statistics (men overwhelmingly commute violent crimes) and you will see the expressions of the gametes.

Reproductive ability: Are you retarded? Reproductive ability is strictly based on the sex. Women make eggs and men make sperm. Or are you talking about failures to produce fertile sex cells? In that case see my explanation of phenotype; it is simply a failure to express the gametes.

Go soak your head kiddo.

>>8549075
>Spheres are totally to size
I don't' really care about the rest of the conversation, but you're an idiot when it comes to diagrams.

1) If you knew anything about Venn diagrams you'd know the size, shape, and color are all irrelevant. The only meaningful part is what regions overlap.

2) Any aspect of a diagram that isn't labelled to mean something, doesn't mean something.

>>8549126
>Chromosome pairs generally determine gentailia.
What determines the formation of genitalia is the presence of specific hormones. They are responsible for attaching to and developing/regressing the intermediate ducts

>and you will see the expressions of the gametes.
Expression of hormones that cause neurophysiological effects

>Reproductive ability is strictly based on the sex. Women make eggs
Maybe 'sex', but not based on chromosomes
XY males can also make eggs >>8549096


Your definition of sex is socially constructed, it doesn't involve "just" chromosomes or just appearance or just gametes, it's a combination of all of those things fitting into a specific pattern that is common. Just because most people fall in line with said pattern does not mean that you can hinge your definition on just one of those properties (chromosomes). Phenotype is significantly more pertinent to a social classification because that is what will determine how people actually treat/interact with you in every setting.

>>8549096
>CONCLUSIONS: The range of phenotypes observed in this unique family suggests that there may be transmission of a mutation in a novel sex-determining gene or in a gene that predisposes to chromosomal mosaicism.
in other words mutant as anon was saying.

>>8549082
>The definition of sex is simple: males have XY chromosome pairs, females have XX, and anything beyond is mutant.
Even easier than that actually. If one has a Y chromosome, they are male. Even those XXY and those XXXYs are males.

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>>8549142
How do the hormones come about: chromosomes.

Now the purpose comes out:
>"How people treat you"

Gender is not an answer for "how people treat you" and trying to disprove another part of reality will not help you in your efforts. Take this hogwash back to a gender studies course, biology is a science not make-believe.

>>8549160
>Gender is not an answer for "how people treat you"
Why not?

>>8549168
People like you start your experiment and fix it til you get the outcome you want.

If you had a pure heart you'd be ok with the outcome no matter what it was.

Gender =/= Sex

Sex is an undeniable fact of life. Every human is born as one of two sexes, and that is that. Gender on the other hand varies from culture to culture and while the same features generally arise amongst various cultures there are some that deviate from the norm. Yes gender is a social construct, but it arose directly from the roles that the different sexes undertook naturally due to their strengths and weaknesses.

>>8549176
>People like you start your experiment and fix it til you get the outcome you want.
Huh, that didn't take long.

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>>8549142
>Your definition of sex is socially constructed, it doesn't involve "just" chromosomes or just appearance or just gametes, it's a combination of all of those things fitting into a specific pattern that is common. Just because most people fall in line with said pattern does not mean that you can hinge your definition on just one of those properties (chromosomes).

There is a social construct of sex, and a genetic construct of sex.

There is a social construct of race, and a genetic construct of race.

The difference between these two is that in the case of sex, the genetic and social constructs match up 99.99%, while they're a lot more iffy in the racial one.

We can easily upset social race without disrupting genetic race (IE: turn a white into a south Indian person by changing skin tone, since skin darkness is controlled by a relatively small amount of genes).

We cannot upset social gender in this way yet, and we probably never will.

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>>8549185
This doesn't agree with my ideology or with my preferred structural schemas of the world. Since I've been granted divine knowledge about the nature of man, you must be incorrect.

>>8549068
>there is no reliable definition for sex
having a penis = male
having a vagina = female

sorry but sex is both a biological and medical term and english language is not your playground to reinvent scientific concepts. If you're confused by biology 101 definitions you should have finished highschool.

>>8544285
JUST READ THE BLOODY DSM-5.
It is litcherally THE agreed upon psychiatry manual.
>google 'dsm 5 pdf.'
>download
>read chapters on gender dysphoria and transvestitic paraphilia disorder
>you know it all

>>8549042
>>8549057

>le "if it's a social construct it doesn't exist meme"
>muh positivism is the only way to know reality

Fucking /sci/ man.

>>8549082
>you can't measure social constructs and perception

Holy fucking shit.

>gender thread on /sci/
you all know you're being trolled right?

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>>8549204

>>8549185
>Every human is born as one of two sexes

>/sci/ being this ignorant

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>>8549195
>DSM

>>8549218
Oh I didn't know you had a genitalia that was a transition between a penis and vagina. Care to show us what that mythical thing looks like?

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>>8549220
yea it's the best we have are you fuckin mad?

>>8549225
Google any of these, I've seen them before and it's too disgusting for me to look at them again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disorders_of_sex_development

>>8549160
>>"How people treat you"
>quoting something I never actually wrote

>Gender is not an answer for "how people treat you"
I never said it was, I specifically mentioned phenotype because that is generally how people are classified into sex categories, if you appear enough like a female then in (most) social contexts you will be treated as belonging to that sex. The fact that you have XY chromosomes doesn't stop you from being considered a woman in some situations, so it can't be the only determinant of what we classify as sex.

>>8549188
>genetic construct
lol what, both of those things are just our perception which is constructed using our other knowledge

>match up 99.99%
Not really, trans people constitute some half a percent. Could potentially be more if you consider transtrenders and such. If you consider all incidences of DSD, it's about 2% of the population. Then there's all the people you would consider having a "normal" sex but are otherwise infertile or have deformed genitals/secondary sex traits, which is a few more percentage points.

>turn a white into a south Indian person by changing skin tone, since skin darkness is controlled by a relatively small amount of genes
how does that demonstrate anything? I don't think you can separate social race from genetic race since any perception of it will necessarily involve a difference in genes.

>We cannot upset social gender in this way yet, and we probably never will.
Literally what? gender has not even existed as a category of discourse separate from just sex-typed behavior until fairly recently, and from a linguistic perspective it has already been distorted by the increased recognition of trans people. I really don't know how you could say that we can't upset it at all considering that definitions of gender have changed throughout history based on the material and social circumstances of their time. It will likely continue changing as well

>>8549244
If I consider my dick a bicycle then can I let children ride on it?

There is a reality separate for the wants of mankind.

>>8549244
> just our perception which is constructed using our other knowledge
i think i know your problem. it's like with the concept of blue. believe it or not historically people didn't make the distinction of blue or azure, that came much later. we just didn't recognize it at the time that nature can be understood with the blue band. the thing is it's a mistake to say the concept is entirely invented when it's a recognized pattern. we recognize the pattern and formulate the definition. now how applicable it is to every situation is another matter, but all these concepts come from our attempts at recognizing pattern in reality. they're not out of nowhere to the point where we impose them on reality like with morality and all that fluffy liberal arts stuff.

>>8549255
there is also formulating the definition and seeing how well the reality fits it, if it reflects reality it is a scientific definition. same result.

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>>8549189
Your ideology provides a structural advantage to a category you fit into and you continuously perpetuate it to maintain hegemony

>>8549194
And if babies are born with intermediate genitalia then they need to be shaped into either of those right?
>haha u didnt finish HS xDD

>>8549252
>If I consider my dick a bicycle then can I let children ride on it?
It matters only if you manage to impose that perception on them, otherwise they'll stop you.

>There is a reality separate for the wants of mankind.
Maybe, but I don't think we have access to it. We're stuck with this processing mechanism that restricts and shapes everything we effectively call reality.

>>8549255
>but all these concepts come from our attempts at recognizing pattern in reality.
Obviously I'm not saying it's completely arbitrary - it never is

>they're not out of nowhere to the point where we impose them on reality like with morality and all that fluffy liberal arts stuff.
You think that liberal arts teach you about "imposing concepts on reality"? how is that like morality?

No we don't impose things on reality, we impose things on each other that shape our understanding of reality. By doing that, we can change the part of reality that is accessible to the conscious realm, effectively altering the shared conception of what is considered real.

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>>8549282
>Your ideology

Finally, you admit it's simply a discussion of ideology. Please reduce it to a problem of ideology, not of biology., and discuss it within that framework There are sexes and they perform functions relevant to their definition--this is empirical data. There are outliers which are the result of genetic defects; however, that does not invalidate the utility of sexes or their empirical nature. Some people have less than two arms. They are not uni-armers, some new facet of humanity unknown and kept secret by the hegemonic science bi-armist machine. Rather, they are bi-armers who've befallen a genetic or some other deformity. There are tractable reasons consistent within the bi-arm framework for why they appear as uni-arms--and these reasons are empirical.

If your issue is about the categorization and subsequent treatment of those who don't identify with their sex, that's not a scientific issue--but one of ideology, 'norms', society, etc.

>Maybe, but I don't think we have access to it

The thing you're rejecting is science. There are realities outside of ideology--empirical truths. You can run around issues of models and frameworks and the reliability of others' measurements you haven't yourself perceived, but they are repeatable and withstand the test of time. Ideology is not. Liberal arts are not.

>>8549282
>Obviously I'm not saying it's completely arbitrary - it never is
well then anon's biological and social sex is just that.

>we impose things on each other that shape our understanding of reality
this is where you're wrong and i pointed out why when it comes to scientific concepts. in science we try to help each other recognize patterns in reality. we're not imposing our views on each other. we're trying to make sense of what's there.

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>>8549282

>>8544422
was this really all that funny or am I too sleep-deprived

>>8549322
I keked anon, but I too am sleep deprived.

>>8544285
Yeah. Some people are male some people are female and some are intersex. That's just biology. Gender is a social construct that constantly changes with changing culture. That's mostly society.

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can I just how much I enjoy reading this thread? To hear people talking back and fourth about this is really interesting, even with the occasional /pol/ extremest posts. I don't think I've ever been able to openly discuss this topic, which Is pretty concerning.

Even being in college now living in the pacific northwest the political climate is so hostile. I feel like If I ever expressed uncertainty about my support on this issue I would be typecasted as a transphobic/homophobic/racist.

>>8544286
fpbp

>>8547688
You fucking autist.

>>8544531
It has apparently (I don't have any sources on hand, apart from "I read it somewhere") been a thing for a while, and has only recently become more visible. Part of the seemingly increased prevalence is likely due to less stigma (relatively), and greater knowledge that it is an established *thing* that has treatments. I would guess that many people who have relatively mild dysphoria (relative to the people who cannot bear to live in their current body) would have suppressed these feelings, or maybe people who would otherwise be closeted can express themselves.

>>8544561
Any talk of "gender is a social construct" does nothing to alleviate gender dysphoria, and the fact that if you don't look like a "real" woman then people won't accept you as a "real" woman. Whether or not gender is a social construct is irrelevant, since it's obviously going to be a thing for at least the foreseeable future.

>>8544605
There probably wouldn't be as much backlash against the "mental illness" label if there wasn't so much stigma against mental illness. Then again, there could be a medical reason it isn't defined as such - I'm nowhere close to being knowledgeable in that area.

>>8549185
>what is intersex

>>8544523
That shit is pretty uncommon in California, people just love to play it up

>>8549395
It is. Gender dysphoria is a mental disorder.

That's why people who have it receive psychiatric care and hormone treatments.

Homosexuality is not a mental illness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenatal_hormones_and_sexual_orientation

I have not seen any objective evidence that gender dysphoria is innate like homosexuality, if someone is anxious about their body the first option should be to try to address the cause of that anxiety.

>>8548965
>Gender dysphoria is still a thing, it's just that the definition has changed.

Gender dysphoria is still a thing as it always was, but is no longer related whatsoever to body dysphoria or body identity integrity disorder. And quite frankly it was only loosely related by lazy scientists to start. The definition of gender dysphoria absolutely has not changed, but the categorization has, and for the better which separates it completely from straw man arguments like relating transgender individuals to people who actively want to paralyze themselves.

>>8549437
>That's why people who have it receive psychiatric care and hormone treatments.

It is impressive how incredibly far above your head this:>>8549395 post went over your head considering you proceeded to literally and quickly prove their point about the ignorant stigma that exists.

>>8549437
>Gender dysphoria is a mental disorder.
mental disease by definition.

1. it meets the criteria of being abnormal.

2. not feeling like your mind and body work together is a dis-ease.

hence it is a disease by definition.

>>8544285
Gender dysphoria is a real thing.
Castrating someone and normalizing it is not a treatment.

>>8544285
>girls at risk

has anyone noticed how much americans shit their pants when you suggest women might be in trouble? even if it's some mundane shit

>>8544347
The problem is that the majority of people who go on HRT aren't prescribed it by a doctor so they aren't taking it correctly or not taking the correct dosage for them personally

>>8544366
The majority of transitions don't involve surgery at all, only HRT. I'd say surgery transitions are like 25% at the most, and that still seems like a lot to me.

>>8545626
It is similar to how anorexia works. You mentally see yourself as fat/a female even though you are not in reality. Hence, dysphoria.

However, treatment for gender dysphoria isn't the same as anorexia. You can eventually work hard enough to break the image of being falsely fat. For gender dysphoria, it doesn't work the same at all unfortunately.

>>8544513
They're more likely to be kicked out and homeless, having to be sex workers, raped, beaten, etc

>>8546105
I know two people from 4chan

One is not an asshole

The other is an asshole

Everyone from 4chan is an asshole

>>8547458
When you transition that young you have to first get approval from doctors, it's a really long process. His parents likely had multiple doctors telling them that transitioning would be best.

>>8548965
>There are some rare cases where a XX chromosome expresses as a male
Source?

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>>8544289

I see how it is now.

It's all fine after all.

>used to bought science magazines when young
>I search google for some good magazines to read
>this appears

Man... why they do this? I want to read scientific stuff, like physics, as I'm stupid enough to take a course, not the history of a mental ill boy who thinks that he's a girl

>>8544285
>people become gay
>they don't spread their genes
>less sexual breeding competition for straight indivuals

Great!!!

>even more people become gay
>they lobby government
>government enacts laws to enforce mandatory gayness for the population or grant resources to gays that and those resources from straight people thereby reducing straight people's ability to breed

BAD!!!

Don't allow gay people any voice. It is species destroying.

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>>8544289

>>8550048
No one is being destroyed by the 0.08% or whatever of people that get trans surgeries, and no one is enforcing gayness

>muh breeding
Shouldn't you be protesting abortions or something?

>>8549472
>americans

it's the same line the left used to sell 'refugees' to european nations

>>8544420
>I can dig through Sargon of Akkad's videos
Oh jesus

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

I'm just going to leave this here.

>>8544290
not only did you switch those around, but you don't even know what it is we're even talking about...

>>8549570
Use Google man, literally just put "XX male on Google".

I'm not an asshole though, so here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome

>>8549454
Doesn't gender dysphoria in DSM-5 refer solely to the discomfort that the people feel relating to their sex? That's different than before.

>>8549453
Something being innate says almost nothing as to whether it should be a mental disorder or not.

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>>8544295
>treatments for so called sex dysphoria

Pic related is a valid treatment option.

>>8550469
Unironically that's what nowadays kids need. Sometimes kids need a slap in their face. I bet 90%of tranies aren't even true trannies, they're just brainwashed wannabe special snowflakes.

>>8544366
or males*

>>8544403
source?

>>8544285
xy is boy
xx is girl
anything else is a meme or a disorder

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>>8550127
>No one is being destroyed by the 0.08% or whatever of Jews....

>>8544405
Wow, a wise man on the board. I love you dude.

>>8549141
>Yeah haha dude my graph is totally non misconstrued to look bigger or smaller
>xd

That's why
>Le Venn diagram
>Nice meme

>>>/trash/

My main issue is that we are legitimizing a mental illness.
Because we don't have the means to treat these people we allow them to mutilate themselves in some form of a mental band aid. It's giving up and is going to end up doing far more harm than good.

>>8544405
>>8550680
I don't give a fuck what attack helicopter you identify as, just don't go around shoving it in other people's faces, whine and bitch about lgbt or "privilege", and be arrogantly up your own ass about it.
...

>>8544385
I know 3 FtM trans and 0 MtF.

>>8550869
Would you rather they reproduce?

>>8544290
You're describing sex when OP asked about gender.

>>8544295
> sex dysphoria
It's called gender dysphoria.

>>8544339
sorry i don't want a grown ass dude with a beard dressed as princess peach to shit next to my daughter.

>>8544389
see
>>8544286

>>8544285
It annoys me that historically I haven't seen transgenders at all, you see all these other mental disorders but not GID.

It's stupid that it's not considered a mental disorder anymore despite clearly related problems.

Remembering that many trannies have so many other problems and similarities between other mental disorders, I'd guess that the whole thing is some kind of weird depersonalisation. Would name it identity confusion disorder or identity conflict disorder, something like that.

>>8544452
>What I take out of it is that you assume right wing people and opinions are dumb and because I am being scolded by them I am even dumber.
That's not the take away though. Not the poster you're responding to, but they were clearly saying "Your arguments are so stupid that even people who would typically agree with your sentiments are calling you out."

>>8550993
"Gender" is a grammatical concept. Take this to /lit/.

>>8544385
There are like 3 of them in the US, and they're wishing to turn the whole place upside down just for the sake of a fad

+ the congress should have more pressing things to consider and ponder about

>>8544285
gender is about feeling
if someone is feeling mentally ill, its more of a psychological issue; this discipline has more soft science approaches in use, the hard science is extremely infantile

Sex is pretty scientific though

>>8549185
>but it arose directly from the roles that the different sexes undertook
So why not call it what it is: social roles. Why is there this special category for sex related roles.

>>8544431
>gender dystopia

>sex
>gender
>sexual orientation
>???
confusion