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How good are the 16 personalities test? And no, no one wants

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How good are the 16 personalities test?
And no, no one wants to know your test result
>>
It's got kind of a bad rep among "higher" psychologists.
http://indiana.edu/~jobtalk/Articles/develop/mbti.pdf
The descriptions are often seen as too vague and flattering, some people get a different result every time they take the test, and even among people who have a "stable" personality type there is little correlation as to how they perform in the field they're recommended. It's still fun though

I think there are other psychology tests that are more accepted among professionals, like the occupational personality questionnaire, The Hogan personality inventory, or the big five. And those tests don't really put people into categories, except for some interpretations of big five, it's mostly used to know how much a trait is present in you (for example how "open" you are).
But even then those tests are mostly used as indicative values.
>>
>>8486030
>The Hogan personality inventory, or the big five
>none of them are free
feelsbad man
>>
>>8486047
http://similarminds.com/bigfive.html
you can try that one if you want an idea of what the big five is about. Be warned though, the big five type descriptions aren't nearly as flattering as the MBTI ones, look at this one for example http://similarminds.com/global5/rcoei.html
>>
>>8486015

The US Army did an extensive study of it, and found it had zero (0) usefulness or accuracy. Not only do people frequenty get different results when they re-take the test, there is no correlation at all between education and career and MB "type".

If you want a good and accurate test that is based on science, try these
http://www.truity.com/test/big-five-personality-test
http://www.moralfoundations.org/questionnaires
>>
it's astrology for hipsters
>>
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>>8486054
>>8486057
thanks for the links
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>>8486015
>Well, I was labeled an INTP so that is always good.

It's a meme test.
>>
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>>8486086
any kind of personality have a good side
what are you implying?

also any trait that you have if extremist is a bad trait, so even things like friendly or innovative van be bad
>>
>>8486054
http://similarminds.com/global5/rcuei.html
>atheist/agnostic tendencies, unconcerned with public image, lower energy level, does not value tradition, avoidant, does not put the welfare of others above self, not punctual, unproductive, does not believe in human goodness, not easily moved to tears, seldom bothered by the suffering of strangers, insensitive to the needs of others, relaxed, quiet around strangers, tendency to believe only in self, people have trouble reading them but they don't care, late finishing work, acts without planning, withdrawn, rarely too busy, not a perfectionist, uncooperative, not prone to complimenting people, does not believe in life after death, avoids crowds, prefers unpredictable to organized, not passionate about bettering the world's condition, does not second guess self, able to control cravings, calm in crisis, ambivalent to the feelings of others, believes in the importance of art, dislikes small talk, socially uncomfortable, private, not known for generosity, acts without consulting others, hard to get to know, not easily frustrated, interested in intellectual pursuits, not open about feelings, loner, asks many questions, open to change, influenced more by self than others, bored at work

Wow it's spot-on. I expected it to get a few hits and a few misses, but I agree with literally every word of this analysis.
>>
>>8486101
>communist atheist neckbeard
kys
>>
>>8486116

I don't know how you saw "communist" there, my primary type was "egocentric". But anyway, I'm just commenting on the accuracy of the test, in contrast to the kind of shit MBTI tests spew out, where typically half are "hits" and half are "misses".
>>
>>8486125
does not value tradition > globalist > communist lover (probably)

vey good test

not afraid of doing the wrong things, does not value rules and regulations, prefers unpredictable to organized, does not accomplish work on time, needs to maintain high levels of excitement, out for own personal gain, not afraid to draw attention to self, more pleasure seeking than responsible, not bothered by disorder, retaliatory, thrives on the rush of risk taking, unpredictable, asks questions that nobody else does, often does not know what they are doing, spontaneous, first to act, not easily hurt, not apprehensive about new encounters, does not readily admit mistakes, not a perfectionist, not apologetic, disorganized, socially comfortable, outgoing, calm in crisis, fearless, atheist/agnostic tendencies, good at getting people to have fun, opinionated, not easily moved to tears, sexually immodest, adventurous, unconventional, aggressive, often late, high energy level, likes the spotlight, ambivalent about the needs of others, worry free, acts without thinking or planning, bad at saving money, selfish
>>
>>8486160

Communism is 100 years out of date, it's not compatible with what we now about how the world works. Basic principles of freedom and self ownership are much more appealing to me than "spreading the wealth" and helping "society" are.
>>
>>8486054
Oh my fucking god look at mine:
> moody, not good at sports, low energy level, unable to speak up for self, avoidant, depressed, withdrawn, attracted to things associated with sadness, easily frightened, feels defective, lonely, no self confidence, easily discouraged, avoids crowds, backs down when threatened, easily intimidated, socially unskilled, loner, unproductive, late with work, prone to health problems, focuses on fantasies more than reality, self loathing, wounded at the core, easily hurt, often sad, becomes overwhelmed by events, fearful, rarely prepared, fears doing the wrong thing, often aware how the color and lighting of a room affects their mood, feels untalented, quiet around strangers, prone to addiction, doubting, anxious, easily confused, frequently overwhelmed by unpleasant feelings, weak sense of purpose, relates to broken and discarded things, unsure where life is going, continually losing things, fears drawing attention to self, avoids unnecessary interaction, often bored, second guesses self, embarrassed by praise, worrying, resigned, prone to jealousy

>Low energy
sheeeit
>>
>>8486186
[spoiler]The worst thing of ite is that it's spot-on[/spoiler]
>>
>>8486015
Notice how there's no personality type for assholes? But a lot of people are assholes. Really makes you think.
>>
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>>8486186
>>
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>>8486198
being an asshole is not in your personality, its the way that you see life

someone bumps in you while walking down the sidewalk
>what the fuck? fuck you, idiot!
>Oh, sorry mate!
pick one
>>
>>8486169
Modern capitalism is just as dated. Neither suit the true needs of a modern people, nor aim to elevate them.
>>
>>8486015

horoscope for nerds
>>
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>>8486186
you sound like a idiot
good luck next life.
>>
>>8486219

Is it the role of an economic system to "elevate"? Capitalism works better than anything else we've come up with, in 100 years the Chinks will have given everyone a 150 IQ and then we can come up with something better, until then the current hybrid economies could use some tinkering but serve the role perfectly adequately.
>>
>>8486217

Actually on the OCEAN scale, "asshole" is someone with a very low score in Agreeableness.
>>
>>8486228
well you're shits all retarded
>>
>>8486230
Agreeableness: (friendly/compassionate vs. analytical/detached). A tendency to be compassionate and cooperative rather than suspicious and antagonistic towards others. It is also a measure of one's trusting and helpful nature, and whether a person is generally well-tempered or not. High agreeableness is often seen as naive or submissive. >Low agreeableness personalities are often competitive or challenging people, which can be seen as argumentative or untrustworthy.

nah,
>>
>>8486238

how is that not "asshole"? Suspicious and antagonistic? Argumentative and untrustworthy? NOT compasionate or cooperative? NOT trusting or helpful?
>>
>>8486228
Y-you too
>>
>>8486054
>not relationship obsessed, withdrawn, risk averse, not wild and crazy, toned down, thinks before acting, fearless, peaceful, does not like to be the center of attention, quiet, relaxed, level emotions, averse to crowds, unadventurous, punctual, non-aggressive, interested in science, patient, not easily deterred, loner, good at saving money, private, values solitude, avoids unnecessary interaction, not spontaneous, avoids small talk, positive, not overly expressive of emotions, lower energy level, calm in crisis, always knows why they do things, theistic tendencies, non-antagonistic, predictable, analytical, optimistic, not prone to jealousy, not prone to addiction, not preoccupied with appearance, unswayed by emotions, deeply moved by the misfortunes of others, usually happy, influenced more by self than others, true to themself in all circumstances, modest, finishes most things they start, always prepared, competent, focused, more responsible than pleasure seeking, socially unskilled, realistic, planner, not physically affectionate with most people, self confident

>theistic tendencies
Well, shoot... I gotta' find myself some deities quick! What gods do you anons suggest I get?
>>
>>8486249
PRAISE KEK
>>
>>8486249

Something easy like pantheism or one of those flavors of New Age woowoo.

Personally if I had the capacity to believe in magic, I'd be a spiritualist.
>>
>>8486245
well you might be right.

my point is that you can be a competitive/untrustworthy/etc person with most people and still be a pleasant person with those you care, but that's highly improbable, so you are problably right
>>
>>8486254
>>8486255
I'll take both! Everything is the manifestation of almighty kek and his meme magic!
>>
>>8486258

Most people are somewhere in between, assholes are a small minority.
>>
>>8486259
kek is not with you my friend.

SHOW YOUR POWER MIGHTY ONE
>>
>>8486186

cuck
>>
>>8486228
Hey no bully
>>
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>>8486262
May kek forgive me.
>>
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>>8486186
>often aware how the color and lighting of a room affects their mood
>>
>>8486267
bullying children is important, its like a society simulation
he sounds like the worts kind of person that can exist, these people dont deserve any pity
>>
>>8486270
You being unaware of how things influence you doesn't mean they don't, anon.
>>
>>8486054
This seems to be more specific and accurate than 16 personalities which is a horoscope test and I constantly get different shit
>>
>>8486296
go on the lowe button to take the traits like >>8486186 did
>>
>>8486054
>>8486296
Also this seems to be pretty accurate (but I will point out the inaccurate parts):
>atheist/agnostic tendencies, unconcerned with public image, lower energy level, does not value tradition, avoidant, does not put the welfare of others above self, not punctual, unproductive, does not believe in human goodness, not easily moved to tears, seldom bothered by the suffering of strangers, insensitive to the needs of others, relaxed, quiet around strangers, tendency to believe only in self, people have trouble reading them but they don't care, late finishing work, acts without planning, withdrawn, rarely too busy, not a perfectionist, uncooperative, not prone to complimenting people, does not believe in life after death, avoids crowds, prefers unpredictable to organized, not passionate about bettering the world's condition, does not second guess self, able to control cravings, calm in crisis, ambivalent to the feelings of others, believes in the importance of art, dislikes small talk, socially uncomfortable, private, not known for generosity, acts without consulting others, hard to get to know, not easily frustrated, interested in intellectual pursuits, not open about feelings, loner, asks many questions, open to change, influenced more by self than others, bored at work

>atheist/agnostic tendencies
I am religious
>lower energy level
It fluctuates
>does not value tradition
I highly value tradition
>does not believe in life after death
false, I am religious
>bored at work
not true

I am very socially awkward although I have managed to get friends and a girlfriend
>>
>>8486299
i saw it after i posted
>>
>>8486249
literally me
>>
>>8486186
Dollars to donuts this fucker is an INFP.
>>
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Am I /sci/ enough for you, anons?
>>
>>8486015
INTP
>>
>>8486491
Favored careers:
>diplomat
>philosopher
>archeologist
holy fuck no
>>
>>8486054
The "Global5/SLOANtype" is comically negative. (I mean "wounded at the core"...) It's not without a grain of truth, but a decent number of the traits it assigned to me are just bull. It also says that a favoured career for me is "assassin".
>>
>>8486054
>withdrawn, loner, not wild and crazy, does not like the spotlight, worrying, crowd averse, afraid to draw attention to self, easily hurt, fearful, prone to low physical fitness, fears mistakes, prone to health problems, hard to get to know, risk averse, unable to speak up for self, becomes overwhelmed by events, not self confident, depressed, embarrassed by praise, prefers organized to unpredictable, apprehensive about new encounters, not good at telling jokes, easily intimidated, quiet around strangers, socially unskilled, easily offended, avoids being a bother to anyone, anxious, plays it safe, not spontaneous, some attraction to things associated with sadness, easily discouraged, apologetic, private, requires lots of time alone to recharge, self loathing, avoidant, second guesses self, low energy level, values solitude, not physically affectionate with most people, not competitive, lonely, hesitant, thinks before acting, not aggressive, very clean, feels unattractive, stressed, proper, values rules and regulations, plain, avoids small talk, resigned

Hey, that's pretty good!
>>
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>>8486015
How the test works:
>Are you someone who likes questioning things?
Uh ye..
>Do you prefer helping others or improving yourself?
Idk helping others is good...
>Congrats you are a Questioning and Helping person!!
Wow cool I finally find affirmation of my ideals without having to act on them, this test really works!!
>>
>>8486962
Not as good as mine lol
>>
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>avoidant, withdrawn, not usually happy, does not believe in human goodness, loner, moody, avoids crowds, depressed, overwhelmed by unpleasant feelings frequently, agnostic/atheistic tendencies, unsure where life is going, impatient, avoids eye contact, does not think things work out for the best, discontent, negative, suspicious of others, uncooperative, socially uncomfortable, hard to get to know, not punctual, low self confidence, pessimistic, lonely, does not finish work on time, does not like to lead, attracted to things associated with sadness, ambivalent about the problems of others, feels defective, fears failure, often bored, ambivalent about the suffering of others, unproductive, avoids unnecessary interaction, easily frustrated, does not finish many things, lower energy level, focuses on fantasies instead of reality, ambivalent about the needs of others, easily annoyed, rarely prepared, disorganized, quiet around strangers, slow to forgive, hard to understand, not that interested in others, skeptical, wounded at the core, self absorbed
>>
Im INTJ gUys !!!
>>
>>8486302
>I am religious
>>>/x/
>>
>>8487124
12919976132991329999123199133993950
39233999599923299339923299232994593
29323259992323899739923399324996792
49523469995454599459962399435998892
43943549994535849999134289999948905

control+f 9
>>
>>8487138
i hope this becomes a thing
>>
>>8487140
Its just me at the moment although its not my original idea
>>
>>8487138
Control+F9 didn't do anything
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>>8486030
Yeah but it does seem to correlate - you compare drama students to science students. I don't know what they score, but at least on MBTI posts on /sci/ they all fall into similar catergories - INTP, INTJ.
>>
>>8487209
Just go Ctrl+F, then type in 99. Scroll to bottom
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>>8486272
Doesn't help any to bully though
>>
Control+F and then 9 you dipshit

it just says (You)
>>
>>8487138
You forgot to add "make sure to highlight all"
>>
>>8486054
favored careers:
dictator, assassin, international spy,stock broker, mercenary, diplomat, judge, bounty hunter, cia agent.

Well this is unexpected.
>>
>>8486054
>overwhelmed by unpleasant feelings frequently, feels unattractive to others, lonely, not well read, socially unskilled, easily confused, discontent, attracted to things associated with sadness, socially uncomfortable, avoidant, depressed, pessimistic, feels defective, withdrawn, feels ordinary, easily offended, lower energy level, impatient, not usually happy, not well informed, does not believe in human goodness, self loathing, does not admit mistakes, not open to new experiences, moody, not known for generosity, feels victimized, selfish, loner, unambitious, unadventurous, inflexible, easily discouraged, insensitive to the needs of others, not that interested in others, dislikes crowds, driven by own personal gain, unassertive, tense, fearful, unimaginative, not that interested in relationships, uncooperative, feels incapable, dependent, doubting, not good at sports, weak sense of purpose,

1/2
>>
>>8487577
feels untalented, can be aggressive when hurt, easily moved to tears, quiet around strangers, acts without thinking, relates to broken and discarded things, slow to acquire skills


Diss so long it needed two posts. I would disagree that I'm easily offended. I guess selfish as well. If I had anything to give anyone (materially) I would. I'm also generally driven by other things than just 'personal gain', but yeah. This is me, in general.

You was right. They really aren't playing when it comes to being unflattering.
>>
>>8487577
>>8487581
>Extroversion results were very low which suggests you are extremely reclusive, quiet, unassertive, and private.

>Orderliness results were moderately low which suggests you are, at times, overly flexible, random, scattered, and fun seeking at the expense of structure, reliability, work ethic, and long term accomplishment.

>Emotional Stability results were low which suggests you are very worrying, insecure, emotional, and anxious.

>Accommodation results were moderately low which suggests you are, at times, overly selfish, uncooperative, and difficult at the expense of the well being of others.

>Inquisitiveness results were moderately low which suggests you are, at times, overly small minded, traditional, and conventional at the expense of intellectual curiousity, possibility, and progress.
>>
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R8 me
Scoei master race
>>
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>>8487593
>>
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>>8486186
Holy fucking shit dude. How is there not a single positive thing here. And here I thought I had a lot of bad traits.
>>
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>>8486054
This is surprisingly accurate
>>
>>8486101
> recently talked to the spouse, is getting used to tragedy, needs alcohol to get through the working day
>>
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Is RCOEI the typical 4chan autist?
>>
Am I fucked?


withdrawn, loner, moody, dislikes crowds, avoidant, not big on fun, socially unskilled, not that interested in others, overwhelmed by unpleasant feelings frequently, depressed, requires lots of time alone to recharge, socially awkward, hard to get to know, feels defective, averse to change, low self confidence, dislikes small talk, dislikes touchy feely types, private, not prone to complimenting others, driven by own personal gain, pessimistic, self absorbed, indifferent to the feelings of others, does not easily forgive, inflexible, skeptical, embarrassed easily, tense, lower energy level, attracted to things associated with sadness, very suspicious of others, does not believe in human goodness, interested in intellectual pursuits, does not put the welfare of others ahead of self, lonely, not known for generosity, unadventurous, doubting, quick to judge others, discontent, hard to understand, wounded at the core, believes in a logical answer for everything, worrying, uncooperative, agnostic/atheist tendencies, has anxiety, not physically affectionate with most people, feels second place is not good enough, frustrated when people don't live up to expectations
>>
>>8488446
>not big on fun
you'll fit right in
>>
>>8488446
favored careers: researcher, scientist, research scientist, scholar, academic, librarian, historian, university professor, astronomer, data analyst, book editor, research assistant, library assistant, genetics researcher, novelist, philosopher, analyst, systems analyst, bookseller, computer scientist, archivist, biotechnology, mathematician, statistician, neurologist, policy analyst, author, museum curator, biologist, strategist, philosophy professor, copy editor, biochemist, research psychologist, technical writer, geneticist, environmental scientist, history professor, archeology, aerospace engineer, information technology, political scientist, physicist, editor, art historian, anthropologist, botanist, forensic scientist, medical researcher, publisher, forensic anthropologist, egyptologist, freelance writer, paleontologist, biomedical engineer, microbiologist, ecologist, geologist, software developer, software engineer, virologist, computer programmer, chemist, engineer

Literally a /sci/ fucking autist
>>
>>8487603
>s
normies get out reee etc. etc.
>>
>>8486186
>tfw you got the same result
>relates to broken and discarded things

A little too real
>>
>>8486054
>outsider, does not fit in most places, does not mind going days without speaking to people, does not like night life and crowds, not self expressive, spends more time in solitary activity than group activity, does not compete for the spotlight, fears getting involved with others, not seductive, dresses to avoid standing out, not impulsive, loner, female introverts tend not to like wearing makeup, does not enjoy leadership, not very sexual, more likely to be nerdy, prefers loose fitting clothing, inhibited, suspicious, tattoo averse, unmotivated, can't do anything when they don't fee good, has trouble speaking when emotional, dislikes compliments, desires security and support, does not like accepting help, more visual than verbal, does not want to be famous, likes science fiction, prefers to stick with things they know, not traditional

and apparently I should become either a librarian or a computer scientist.
>>
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>>8486015
I like the shadow functions and the jungian shadow. It describes what aspects of your personality may be underdeveloped or vulnerable.
>>
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>>8486054
>RCOEI: withdrawn, not wild and crazy, private, loner, not relationship obsessed, not swayed by emotions, insensitive to the needs of others, unhelpful, interested in intellectual pursuits, avoidant, does not put the needs of others ahead of self, thinks before acting, very scientific, not upset by the misfortune of strangers, avoids small talk, values solitude, private, does not get worked up about most things, fearless, unaffected by the suffering of others, calm in crisis, not easily excited, won't do much to avoid rejection, not known for generosity, not easily confused, cold, not prone to complimenting others, dislikes most people but tries to get along to minimize hostility, hard to get to know, more dominant than submissive, not easily hurt, driven by reason, influenced more by self than others, rarely worried, hard to impress, not that interested in relationships, hard to influence, not concerned about failing when trying something new, self confident, knows why they do things, not easily moved to tears, not prone to jealousy, not guided by moods

seems accurate
>>
>>8488446
No more fucked than me, or probably half the people on sci
>>
>>8486054
>avoidant, withdrawn, not usually happy, does not believe in human goodness, loner, moody, avoids crowds, depressed, overwhelmed by unpleasant feelings frequently, agnostic/atheistic tendencies, unsure where life is going, impatient, avoids eye contact, does not think things work out for the best, discontent, negative, suspicious of others, uncooperative, socially uncomfortable, hard to get to know, not punctual, low self confidence, pessimistic, lonely, does not finish work on time, does not like to lead, attracted to things associated with sadness, ambivalent about the problems of others, feels defective, fears failure, often bored, ambivalent about the suffering of others, unproductive, avoids unnecessary interaction, easily frustrated, does not finish many things, lower energy level, focuses on fantasies instead of reality, ambivalent about the needs of others, easily annoyed, rarely prepared, disorganized, quiet around strangers, slow to forgive, hard to understand, not that interested in others, skeptical, wounded at the core, self absorbed
Just kill myself
>>
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>2016
>being a recluse
>>
>>8486054

Its easy to lie on these tests. Even trained lie-detectors have very low detection rates. Psychology will never be a science because humans are unpredictable. Successful prediction of human behavior is confirmation bias or luck.
>>
>>8486054
RLUEI
>
avoidant, withdrawn, not usually happy, does not believe in human goodness, loner, moody, avoids crowds, depressed, overwhelmed by unpleasant feelings frequently, agnostic/atheistic tendencies, unsure where life is going, impatient, avoids eye contact, does not think things work out for the best, discontent, negative, suspicious of others, uncooperative, socially uncomfortable, hard to get to know, not punctual, low self confidence, pessimistic, lonely, does not finish work on time, does not like to lead, attracted to things associated with sadness, ambivalent about the problems of others, feels defective, fears failure, often bored, ambivalent about the suffering of others, unproductive, avoids unnecessary interaction, easily frustrated, does not finish many things, lower energy level, focuses on fantasies instead of reality, ambivalent about the needs of others, easily annoyed, rarely prepared, disorganized, quiet around strangers, slow to forgive, hard to understand, not that interested in others, skeptical, wounded at the core, self absorbed

Yeah that sounds about right.
>>
>>8487603
ayy got the same. based scoei
>>
>>8490334
I'd see one of the biggest problems also being that people are layered and contradictory. Questions like "are you this or that" often you're both and it just depends which one you're leaning more towards based on mood, situation, state of mind etc. But I think people try to view themselves in a stable, orderly way, try to create some sense of identity, so they tend to avoid seeing that and will easily identify with what these tests are saying/asking.

I've noticed with myersbriggs that people who get the same result every single time tend to get INTJ and these people tend to be like really stereotypical asperger types who want total structure and rigidness and tend to not change their perspective or personality much throughout their life. So I guess many people have molded themselves into this identity to maintain stability and order.
>>
>>8486229
>Capitalism means that Companies will only make technological advancements as far as it lets them outperform other companies, and never as far and as quickly as possible.
>On the other side the workers and the employees will only work as hard as they have to in order to keep their job, but never as hard as they could theoretically.

Tell me again how capitalism is in any way a good system?
>>
>Inquisitive

RLUAI BROS WHERE WE AT?
>>
>>8491710
This is very accurate.
>>
>>8491814
>L

get ahold of your emotions man
>>
>>8486054

>RCUEI

>
atheist/agnostic tendencies, unconcerned with public image, lower energy level, does not value tradition, avoidant, does not put the welfare of others above self, not punctual, unproductive, does not believe in human goodness, not easily moved to tears, seldom bothered by the suffering of strangers, insensitive to the needs of others, relaxed, quiet around strangers, tendency to believe only in self, people have trouble reading them but they don't care, late finishing work, acts without planning, withdrawn, rarely too busy, not a perfectionist, uncooperative, not prone to complimenting people, does not believe in life after death, avoids crowds, prefers unpredictable to organized, not passionate about bettering the world's condition, does not second guess self, able to control cravings, calm in crisis, ambivalent to the feelings of others, believes in the importance of art, dislikes small talk, socially uncomfortable, private, not known for generosity, acts without consulting others, hard to get to know, not easily frustrated, interested in intellectual pursuits, not open about feelings, loner, asks many questions, open to change, influenced more by self than others, bored at work

Some things are off.

>Not a perfectionist
I'm definitely a perfectionist, I have to actively keep ahold of it at work

>Uncooperative
>Not known for generosity
>Etc
I posted my opinions, not my actions. I'm happy to help others, consult and cooperate with them, but overall the suffering of everyone doesn't get me down. I just don't have the energy to feel sad for the whole world. I'd like to think of myself as a generous person, at least.

>Unproductive
Wow fuck this, my work ethic is something I take pride in.

>Disfavoured careers
>Healthcare worker
Oops.
Thread posts: 96
Thread images: 22


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I'm aware that Imgur.com will stop allowing adult images since 15th of May. I'm taking actions to backup as much data as possible.
Read more on this topic here - https://archived.moe/talk/thread/1694/


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