California Liberals Stall Solar and Wind plans

>based high IQ liberals that love science and progress
>if only dumbfuck rednecks could be as smart as Californians

The Desert Renewable Energy Conservation Plan would set aside 5.3 million acres for conservation and 3.8 million acres for recreation, compared to just 388,000 acres for renewable energy projects. Solar developers say that's not nearly enough land to build the projects California will need to meet its 50 percent clean energy mandate, let alone to push for 100 percent clean energy over time. While no one expects all 388,000 acres to be developed, companies say they need more flexibility as the search for the best places to build solar farms.

The party saving us from global warming

Shut down all their nuclear power plants and just teamed up with traditional utilities to stifle solar and wind.

/sci/ tell me more about which political party is more pro science.

>>8419633
>t. Republicunt
Please

>>8419730
This is your party, dhimmicrats
own up to it
Rampant blatant disgusting corruption has been NORMAL among dems for decades

>>8419739
I'm not a democrat, asswipe

I bet you're a physics major.

>>8419623

>Conservationists are predictable
>Utility companies are scared

That's the gist.

>>8419623
Stopping renewable energy to protect the desert... seriously... it's renewable energy that's going to stop the whole world turning into a desert, when that's happened I guess they will want to protect that desert too

>>8419623
Yeah this totally outshines the damage republicans have done by sucking the Koch brothers' dicks and spreading misinformation about climate change. Those damn dirty democrats and their environmental protection. We should be setting up several more (((clean))) coal plants like daddy Trumpy says we should.

>>8419823
the idea you can run an economy on "renewables" is fantasy
and the problem with coal is its fucking dirty, not because of CO2

>>8419824
>What is nuclear energy

>>8419824
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=73&t=11
Really nigger?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_energy
You're joking right?

>>8419824
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100%25_renewable_energy
"Similarly, in the United States, the independent National Research Council has noted that “sufficient domestic renewable resources exist to allow renewable electricity to play a significant role in future electricity generation and thus help confront issues related to climate change, energy security, and the escalation of energy costs … Renewable energy is an attractive option because renewable resources available in the United States, taken collectively, can supply significantly greater amounts of electricity than the total current or projected domestic demand.""

>>8419623
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/the-science-of-president-trump/
This is the person you want to elect, it's a no-brainer.

They aren't wrong. If only nuclear didn't have all this stigma due to bad nuclear waste disposal incidents then people would agree that it is the most environmentally friendly energy production method.

Wind farms require a large amount of resources (including physical footprint) to build and they do require upkeep and maintenance. It's just not a good thing to invest in so it's easy to mount support against it. In this case the environmentalists want more land to be conserved so that their state doesn't become a big windfarm. The problem of course being that modern wind farms are too inefficient.

>inb4 shut up moron, don't you know that nuclear has clearly defined disposal processes
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_waste_dumping_by_the_%27Ndrangheta
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_waste_disposal_incidents

>>8419867
Yea, because only no-brainers are voting for him.

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>>8419623
"Liberals" are just being led by the nose by the utilities companies.

There's a huge fucking war between renewable energy and utility companies that sell power made from fossil fuels.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-no-solar-20140810-story.html

http://www.wftv.com/news/local/want-solar-panels-you-still-have-to-pay-florida-utilities/276475576

http://grist.org/business-technology/north-carolina-town-bans-solar-for-fear-it-will-suck-up-all-the-energy-from-the-sun/

http://www.disclose.tv/news/Government_Rules_OffTheGrid_Living_As_Illegal/100317

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/articles/2015/10/spain-approves-sun-tax-discriminates-against-solar-pv.html

http://fcir.org/2015/04/03/in-sunshine-state-big-energy-blocks-solar-power/

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>>8420248
>if only nuclear wasn't such a fucking shit show in all aspects it'd be amazing and people would love it

>>8419824
>look everyone I'm so edgy I deny the climate change

>>8420301
It literally has the least amount of deaths by far per GWh, but noooo, because muh Chernobyl, muh Fukushima, muh radioactive waste (btw, only six of those waste dumping incidents are radioactive waste-related, and two of those six have nothing to do with nuclear power).

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>>8420411
>oh no, massive global catastrophes!!! why don't world love nuclear? ;_;

>>8420429
Want to talk about massive global catastrophes? Let's talk about the massive global catastrophes coming thanks to fossil fuels.
>>8419797

>>8420429
They're only "global" because the radioactive material was carried all over the world, most of the casualties were local. Also, it's the past, modern reactors are safer.

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>>8420467
>waaaa it was only global because it is global, no other reason!! Humans are perfect now compared to a few years ago :'(

>>8420449
The sun is the only proper and viable solution to the solar system's energy needs.

>>8420520
>mutations didn't happen before nuclear reactors
k evolution denier

>>8419623

It's worth mentioning that California is replacing all of it's nuclear energy with natural gas and imported coal. CARB (the California Air Resources Board) doesn't care as utility companies are above the law.

Within the next ten years, NRG Energy will build America's largest natural gas power plant in Carlsbad, as a direct consequence of San Onorefe shutting down:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/environment/sdut-new-natural-gas-projects-spark-debate-2016may23-htmlstory.html

Meanwhile California itself has the highest power costs in the entire US.

I don't know how many legislators actually belive the solar/tech industry's lies, but it's apparent that enough of them are in bed with the oil industry and are taking orders from the big utility companies (PG&E and Edison).

>>8419823

It's two sides of the same coin, moron. Democrats take bribes from utility companies and Republicans take bribes from their suppliers (oil companies).

>>8420429

over publicized accidents (all of which have happened outside the US) vs daily deaths from industrial accidents at extraction sites and due to shit air

should we also ban trains because they occasionally crash? This is the exact logic NIMBYs work on and the state is much worse off for it.

>>8420543
Democrats at the very least accept the science of climate change even though their actions may be guided by profits. Do you realize how much damage has been done by having a major political party outright deny science?

>>8420552

The results between both parties is the same. It's arguably worse as the Democrats know what they are doing is wrong, meanwhile Republicans are just fucking stupid. If anything you're saying the Democrats are knowingly destroying the planet for personal profit.

>>8419764
Fossil fuel extenders (wind and solar) are nothing but false hope solutions as we continue to consume more energy in aggregate.

>>8419826
Something that will continue to not be built. Suck a dick for 1000, Alex.

>>8420559
Republicans know it too but still deny the science. Donald Trump did build a sea wall to protect his golf course in Ireland and gave global warming and its effects on coastal erosion as its reason. You can't blame stupidity on this when it's clear they're spreading misinformation.

>>8420568
>>8420572
t. Koch brothers

Centralized energy production is a deadend. Same as with agriculture.

>>8420552
>science of climate change

calling people heretics when they question your methods is science now?

>>8420577
Look at me, look at me! Mining quartz with electric machinery!

>>8420582
Explain in further detail so I can fuck your shit up.

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>>8420532

>Solar or wind thread
>always nuclear nutjobs try to derail it

>>8420577

>You can't blame stupidity on this when it's clear they're spreading misinformation.

Sure, meanwhile the Democrats spread correct information and proceed to lie about their intentions and do exactly what Republicans do. As a result California has the worst air in the US and the highest power prices.

>>8420580

Wrong, centralization means more efficiency per kwh and per unit of material. Buying stuff in bulk is cheaper for a reason.

>>8420608

Probably because nuclear power is clean and provides the same amount of power for less than renewables. And, as can be seen here >>8420540, renewables are mostly red herrings so utility companies can continue using fossil fuels.

>>8420712
No, you're wrong.
Centralization is built on hypercomplexity. Historically, civilizations have failed due to workforce specialization and overly complex systems while simultaneously outstripping available resources. Centralization is brittle and susceptible to cascading system failures. We will be forced to taper off hydrocarbons and that means everything must transform from aristrocratic to egalitarian infrastructure. This is a requirement if we want to progress as a species. The present cost of production is subsidized with cheap hydrocarbon inputs in more ways that one.

>>8419623
im 100% sure this wont work.

that desert will be paved with panels one way or another.

>>8420768

>Centralization is built on hypercomplexity. Historically, civilizations have failed due to workforce specialization and overly complex systems while simultaneously outstripping available resources. Centralization is brittle and susceptible to cascading system failures

Look faggot, it's clear you have not actually done the math on this. Are you even capable of replacing a standard lightswitch?

For starters: the grid is over 100 years old. It was built first, and expanded upon. Your utopia of "simple" isolated systems never happened even though the technology (wind power) predates the grid. Secondly, in the real world things like efficiency matter when it adds up to hundreds if not thousands of megawatt-hours. Thirdly, three phase AC power is hardly "complex" and the grid is plenty reliable as is. If it wasn't reliable, it would not have been built and expanded in the way it has been.

>The present cost of production is subsidized with cheap hydrocarbon inputs in more ways that one.

Strip that away and you're left with hydro-electric power aka power that is created in centralized concrete facilities many of which are over fifty years old.

>>8419623
The complaints are legitimate actually.

The fact of the mater is that there is no zero-impact source of energy.

Dams, panels, windmills, etc. They all degrade the natural environment in some way, and if they were to replace a significant chunk of our massive energy consumption with alt sources we would not find ourselves living in an energy utopia that has nice Earth harmony.

>>8421830
I only mention this because people must become aware of this fact. Any massive project is going to disrupt the environment and cause concern.

A better energy goal is reduce overall consumption, which is difficult because the majority of that consumption is disseminated across production lines and has little to do with whether our home appliances are power savers.

massive solar and wind can't be a solution until better massive grid storage is developed.

>>8419633
>>8419739
Dude, chill. Don't be this fucking retarded about spreading information, you're not getting anywhere. This approach makes sense if you just want to piss people off and get a tribal shouting match going.

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>that episode where liberals support something that defeats their own ideals

been on constant repeat for a decade now

>>8419633
Certainly not the one that denies climate change (and evolution, for that matter) on a regular basis.

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ITT

>>8422222
nice quints

>>8420467
>>8420520
because natural radioactive traces in coal
Coal plants spread much more radioactive material than a nuclear powerplant