Why is math so difficult for the average person? From the starting

They think it's a waste of time so they can't be bothered to actually pay attention or try to make connections.

Most students memorize steps instead of understanding concepts.

>>8397880
Because normalfags are stupid as always

They are pretty much the low 50% of the world's intelligence, so they do rather study psychology or education because they can't do shit
But sometimes there are exceptions when there are good people that have high intelligence but they stay on psychology and education and do nothing important to themselves or their intelligence

In a few words: what you said is true plus FPBP

Contrary to your belief/stance or whatever you call it, not everyone is fit to understand math, atleast the real math, taught at university.

No matter how much time they invest into it.

>>8397880
most people don't pay attention in class and don't understand the concepts. since these are necessary to do well, most people believe the subject is hard even though it is probably the easiest and straightforward.

math is little more than the practice of thinking and applying knowledge. most people will not think or apply.

>>8398088
>most people believe the subject is hard even though it is probably the easiest and straightforward

No it is not, for gifted people it is easy and straightforward, but for the rest it is not.

Get it into your autistic brains already.

It's mostly pointless.

>>8397880
That's because math requires you to remember shit from previous lessons. If you don't remember the basics of addition and multiplying you can't go further without being a fuck up. If you miss on basic geometry in middle school, high school math will fuck you up.

On the other hand other subjects are easy to just cram and forget. You don't need to know anatomy of human body to quickly memorize plant structures. Even basic chemistry can be reduced to memorize and forget albeit less so.

Basically math/physics require you to keep knowledge from previous lessons and slowly add on to it. Other subjects don't require you to keep knowledge after the test for you to be ready for the next one.

I fucking loathe math. 2nd grade all the way up to college courses, it's a literal fight for me to stay attentive when learning math; my brain simply disregards it.
I'm an intelligent person so this has troubled me. It's difficult to actually reach a conclusion that specifies why, under no circumstance, can I learn or even be willing to learn math, especially since as I grow older, I place more and more value on hard logic and nothing more.

So here are my possible takeaways:
1) Religion. I was raised Catholic and in my young mind, there was God and heaven and angels, and on the other hand you have math, the most boring, mundane thing ever. (But it's not. Suprise.)
2) Math as its presented mostly has to do with JUST numbers, so they are all effectively dealing with 0. There is nothing tangible I am working with except a seemingly monotonous set of rules that yields me another pointless number tied to zero. There was very little real-world application involved aside from critical thinking word problems.

Either way, I fell under the spell of either of those or some unspecified condition that has left me absolutely useless as far as math goes.

My only hope in this regard is what I have gleaned from the way computers do math. I find binary computation quite fascinating and learning to program has for me, for the first time in my life, an appreciation for math. The way that you can use more and more complex algorythms to create the most succinct path you can towards your goal. So that's nice.

Just my 2 cents.

>>8397880
People are generally utter shit at composition too. They just don't realize it.

>>8397880
You said it in your own post. How do you not realize it?
People struggle with Calculus I (and II), because calculus taught at universities is really just more algebra and a few identities and concepts here and there.

What people struggle with isn't the calculus, it's the algebra.
Public schooling teaches math in such a way that people have gaps in their understanding of algebra that you could drive a truck through.

>>8398148
Public high schools in the US teach FOUR YEARS of nothing but algebra (assuming you don't take AP courses, which most don't). Generally, the last 2-3 years are nothing but review from the first 1-2 years. How do people STILL NOT GET IT after all that?

>>8398159
Before some faggot calls me out: nothing but algebra math-wise I mean.

People are weak and don't have enough discipline to stay with a problem long enough

Maths are for the true samurai

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>>8398091
This is what brainlets actually believe. But if your early education were actually constructive, then you would have mastered easily arithmetics.

Since algebra's skill is directly related to arithmetics skill, and pre-university maths is actually the 1st floor of the math skyscrapper, and highschool is actually the Root of everyone's projects, maths would have a good "image".

But TV, parents education, and methods mostly determine the early education. So it's actually "tricky" to just teach with passion a little kid maths.

Evidence? Ask competent highschool teachers. They have an "intuitive" side of what's going on on kids mind, even though they are not even teaching kids, but teens, and they can't even "scratch" the "surface" world of the egocentric teen.

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>>8398171
This is a conclusion of a major problem.

People give up earlier, because they think they can't. I always thought I could do any problem as a kid.

>>8398159
And again, education is just a man in front of you asking you to do what he does. But math is not a "memory" subject. Math is not just plain knowledge.

Knowing maths is like training your body. The you train, the more you know.

You can't train your body with the same exercises the magazines tell you. You start training and you exercises in a way so certain underdeveloped muscles better, and you don't overwhelm yourself so you can train tomorrow.

It's almost the same with Maths, but the limit is a lot higher. You will do a lot of easy exercises so your mind get used to them. You can learn "old" methods and tricks, or you can deduce them. Finally you do "some"(not so much) complex problems, so you don't overwhelm yourself. And the next day you do the same.

You can't start with integrals, you can't start with equations, you can't start with multiplication.
You always start identifying numbers. And then, you master addition and substraction. Etc.

This guy also gets it. Math applications are infinite in the human's mind. >>8398122
And I say infinite as a synonym of unknown.

>>8397990
This is a polemic topic. Because you are implying pseudoscience can determine reality.

>>8397926
This.
And
>>8397882
this are conclusions of their lack of interest.
They failed at it as kids, so they link those failures with feeling bad: "Yuck" in the social environment.

>>8397880
Can you describe composition? I don't understand what you are talking about.

>>8398178
You are a huge retard with circular logic.

>this is what brainlets actually believe

Wow, if you are accusing brainlets, then per definition they are believing the right thing.
Brainlet is a title for people who are mentally not so gifted.

And the rest of your text is pure gibberish.
I don't know what point you are trying to convey.

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>>8398122
>it's a literal fight for me to stay attentive when learning math; my brain simply disregards it.
>I'm an intelligent person
>I'm an intelligent person
>I'm an intelligent person

>>8397880
Self limitation and lack of understanding of core concepts

>>8398122

>it's a literal fight for me to stay attentive when learning math; my brain simply disregards it.
I'm an intelligent person so this has troubled me

>My only hope in this regard is what I have gleaned from the way computers do math. I find binary computation quite fascinating and learning to program has for me, for the first time in my life, an appreciation for math

Stop trying to make us CS fags look bad

Also most people think maths is "hard" and never actually apply themselves if they are not "naturally" good at it

>>8397880
You're misunderstanding. It's not that math is hard, it's just that its boring, which makes it hard for the average person to learn.

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>>8398253
>bait part of a post is the unique argument
As expected.

Let me link you my posts again.>>8398178 >>8398208

>>8398296
You are a retard for treating the brain like a muscle.

All your arguments, and within your analogies are really like the ones of a small kid.

Pathetic

I will tell you why I have trouble with math. I am a math major and have loved it since I was a child, I was helping my sister in middle school algebra when I was in third grade. Math has always been my favorite subject however I have chronic insomnia and my short term memory is completely fucking shot and my long term memory isn't any better. I can study equations for hours and out of 10 I might remember 3. I do try to get my 8 hours of sleep but when I take any kind of sleeping pill I get a hangover. And before anyone says exercise I went to state in powerlifting 2 years in a row and been swimming almost 5 times a week for 30+ minutes year round.

>>8397926
>>8398080
>>8398091
>>8398122

How to find a derivativs using the definition of the difference quotient, rote edition.

1. Rewrite the original function, except wherever you see x, write "(x+h)" instead.
2. Write a minus sign. Write the original function within parentheses after that.
3. Draw a fraction bar. Write the letter "h" under it.
4. Expand the first polynomial (the one with x+h's) you wrote.
5. Distribute the negative across the second polynomial (multiply it by negative 1)
6. Look for copies of the same term, except with the opposite operation applied, and cross them out. For example, if you have 2x and a "-2x" later in the sequence, you can cross them out.
7. Every term now should have an h in it. If one doesn't, you messed up somewhere. Check to make sure you distributed the negative in step 5 properly.
8. Divide every term by h. (Remove an h from every term, and cross out the h on the bottom.
9. Rewrite the expression with every remaining h replaced with 0. Evaluate
10. You should have no h's left. What is left is the derivative.
11. Plug in the x value you need the exact rate of change for. Evaluate.

People actually fail tests on this. It's no harder than cooking from a recipe.

>>8397990
You are retarded

>>8398290
This.
And i actually like math

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>>8398314
>like a muscle
And you only can critic the object of the example instead of explaining your argument?
As expected.

>>8398344
Why are you quoting the definition of a derivative?

>>8398159
lol what, i wish i learnt groups, rings, and fields in HS

>>8398525
Did you read the last line? To show it's something you can do formulaicly step by step without even knowing what a derivative or limit is, and your average person still can't do it on a test.

>>8398633
Which last line?

>>8398637
>People actually fail tests on this. It's no harder than cooking from a recipe.

Are you too retarded to do math?

>>8398525

>It's no harder than cooking from a recipe.

11 steps. Jesus wept.

>>8398633
This is bait right?

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>>8397880
They just don't care.

I can't cook, not because it's hard because i don't care about cooking then i didn't learn to
cook.

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>>8398641
Well, it can be hard if you don't know how to read.

The hard part of a long math exercise is just the lack of solving experience at least that's what happens in elementary school, high school. Just the same as language learning and driving lessons.

The more steps you interiorize, the more steps you automatize and the less steps you have to consciously "think" about.

>>8398648
That post wasn't mine anyway.
>>8398650
Your posts are very funny ;^=)

>>8398648
Housewives make recipes with way more than 11 steps all the time, but still can't follow how find a derivative using the method taught to them at the end of precalc.

Which is harder? Making a delicious, perfectly cooked personalized cassoulet or memorizing how to cross some symbols out on a page?

>>8398655
>Your posts are very funny ;^=)
Why ?

>>8398664
I really hope you don't use that long winded process.

Cassoulet doesn't need 11 steps either.
I bet your onion chopping method sucks..

>>8398707
Ofc no one in their right mind does. But you have to in Calc I class until you learn the shortcuts.?

>>8398344
ok friendo find the first derivative of the gamma function using this method :^)

>>8397880

Dude, most people just don't give a shit. I've been a tutor for a few years and I see people with enormous drive and intelligence in many fields yet struggle through concepts such as completing the square because they don't fucking care and why should they?

They're not autists like the rest of us who look at math like a hobby.

>>8397880
Why don't you use your superior ability to remedy this problem? It should be easy for you. Then again, maybe you can ask why the worst are so full of confidence.

>>8397880
A few ideas
>Most normal people seem pretty right brain inclined
>They couldn't care less so they don't try as hard
>Not taught anything aside from basic addition at a young age
>Mathematics education in the US is shaky at best
>Math is a normie meme

I'm smart but because my upbringing was mostly literature, speaking, writing, history, and such. My level of fucks given for math became shit as it all just became meaningless numbers on a page to me and most people I've met who actually enjoyed math (Except for one person) were autistic D-Bags who hated anything that didn't deal with math or wasn't calculable.

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>>8398874
You just gave me a nice idea that might be stolen by CERTAIN GOVERMENT WITH A RED BLUE AND WHITE FLAG, Anon

Why don't we combine art with math? Just like Leonardo DaVinci (No offence if /sci/ hates him)
Since K-12 Math is actually easy, we just gotta motivate the creative ones to be creative on math and try to make "problems" that are actually pretty beautiful for mathematicians and then color it by stimulating their creativity too

Not sure if retarded or not but that could make most creative people stop getting those degrees yet that would mean't lower standards on college/university unless we make some kind of Artistic Mathematics degree that can be both artistic and useful in the real world

>>8398896
why would the Dutch want to steal that idea

>>8397880
>Like, if you paid attention in class and understand the rules
I stopped caring about mathematics when the order of operations, as taught, and as I was inclined to use them, began to return results I was told were incorrect. The system seemed like an arbitrary hackjob and I figured I could do a better job myself.

So fuck you. Also, linguistic and semantic reasoning is easy. Unfortunately, most people are complete shit at it and readily allow their logic to become slave to language, leading to further slavery to their environment and those that seek to control the overall dialogue.

>>8397880
>the average person
>0.5 probability of double-digit IQ
fgt pls

>>8397880

I had a natural inclination for math that got beat out of me by poor teachers

You would fail for not showing complete working, I remember that really triggered me and made me drop further math classes

Why the fuck would I want to work hard for some cunt who thinks:

1. Im cheating
2. Im an asshole
3. Im wrong because I skipped some stupid part that mustve been obvious otherwise why wouldnt I have skipped it?

Like others said, nobody ever explained to me the use of maths, and it was always like "Yes class we know you'll never use this in real life..."

That shit really dampers any interest you have. And when you're a hormonal teenage boy (and girl I suppose) the last thing you're doing is finding reasons to give a fuck about things everyone has told you aren't important

I'm nearly 30 and only now re-teaching myself math through khan academy because I'm interested in economics and can't into economics without math

>>8397926
I wish I had students that would at least memorize. Today you get none of that. Instead you get students who can only solve a problem with their ti-84 -- if that! And understanding concepts? Top kek. Pipe dream for today's youth.

>>8398080
>being this ignorant
What are you doing on /sci brainlet?!

>>8401357
Wifi and cell phone exposure potentiated brain damage and developmental problems, worsening the degeneracy of their socio-cultural ecology.

>>8398091
Complete BS
You must be one of those kids who was voting Bernie. It's past your bed time. Adults are talking here.

>>8398159
EXACTLY

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>>8401362
>Not voting Bernie
>Being retarded
Attaching an image to seem like a softer target.

>>8398148
And here we go, another millenial with le blame the public schools meme. BTFO. It's not the school's fault that kids are lazy AF.

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>>8398122
>I'm an intelligent person

Because math gives you zero REWARDS when you complete a problem.
at least in my programming class after I solve the problem I get to see my code in action

>>8401503
That's why you have to teach your kid maths with passion.

Everytime he makes an effort congratulate him.

>>8401503
The value is not what you gain but what it costs you.

>>8398650
>I can't cook
>not because it's hard because i don't care about cooking
No, because you don't know chemistry.

I'm excellent at English and general arithmetic that doesn't involve memorized formulas. Time and time again I was failed by my teachers. They were either extremely loud and hateful, or had an accent so thick you could hardly understand them. Other American students probably know what I mean. I didn't understand it when I was younger, and no child left behind meant that I just kept going anyways. In high school when I was pulling A's elsewhere, I received a C in freshman algebra, D in Geometry, F in junior advanced algebra, and a C in senior year remedial algebra.

I'm fine with how things turned out, though. Why would I want to work towards a STEM field when I'd just be replaced by some half-educated Indian?

>>8398344
I understand youre just stating the basics for people in the thread that might not know, but you should never do derivatives this way after the very first exam in calc 1 where they force you to show this kind of work. Its horribly inefficient for anything that isnt a basic function.

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>>8401578
Back to >>>/lit/.

>>8401578
>can't do math
>bashes people who can

It's one thing to admit failure, but quite another to beat others down to build ego on top. That's just pitiful.

Executive dysfunction or working memory problems

>>8398655
>Well, it can be hard if you don't know how to read.

literally why the fuck would you go learn Calc if you can't read? What >>8398344 was saying is that if you know how to read you can do Calculus.

>>8401578
>muh "math is just memorizing formulas"
>D in geometry

Face it, you're an idiot

>>8401360
Ummm, it's a fact, intelligence is genetic, what are you doing here?
You can make small improvements to brain function with nutrition but not much, a few IQ points at best.
Don't tell me you believe the myth that the difference between smart and dumb people is education. If you do, please learn to science.

>>8397880
same here with calculus
I try to understand it, it applications and so but I can't figure a single problem. Fuck my life.

>>8397880
As someone who's always been terrible at math, I can offer a few personal anecdotes…

1. My teachers could never give me a solid reason why I would need any of the math they taught – the best they could muster was an incredibly vague and weak, "because you might need it some day". Need it some day for *what*? My then-teenage brain couldn't justify the investment with such uncertain returns.

2. My teachers always wanted to move at a breakneck pace, never slowing down and making sure the entire class truly understood the subject at hand. If you missed a day or had trouble wrapping your head around anything, fuck you, you deserve to fall behind.

3. None of the problems I was asked to solve in school were realistic. They were always stand alone equations or word problems involving convoluted situations. My brain has never dealt well with these – it does well if math is the means to an end, but mathematical wanking has never worked too well. To me math is just a tool.

>>8402384 (cont)
I work as a software engineer today, working mostly with C-family languages. This suggests that I have the intelligence to deal with math reasonably well, but it was never presented to me in a way that "clicked" and my teachers had no interest in figuring out what that way was. So now I struggle with anything beyond basic algebra. It sucks.

>>8401977
how about YOU learn to science?

Wheres you proof?

>>8401336
This so much. Two or three times I figured out ways to solve problems that made sense to me and always produced the right answers, but my teachers would mark the problem as wrong because my method wasn't the one they had given their blessing or because I was able to mentally shortcut through the mindnumbing process of showing my work.

A teacher should challenge and guide his students, not be an adversarial high-horse jerkoff.

>>8402384
Sums it up quite well.

>>8402390
>I work as a software engineer today
>This suggests that I have the intelligence to deal with math reasonably well

Kek

>>8402446
Good software engineers (real programmers, not hipster javascript monkeys) work with pure logic, which is the basis of math. They should at least be able to handle math reasonably well. Certainly not to the level of a mathematician, but well enough.

There's a huge difference between a kid glueing together frameworks and actual software engineers, despite both falling under the same designation these days.

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>>8401977
>pseudoscience are facts
Another brainlet.

Next.