http://www.nature.com/news/how-to-r aise-a-genius-lessons-fr

>>8391240
>>8391206

Careful not to respond to the bait, guys. We can actually have a non-retarded discussion about education if we DON'T ENGAGE THE SHITPOSTERS.

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>why are we wasting so much potential?

It's a numbers game, there are more "non-gifted" people than "gifted" people. Also from an economic point of view while it is advantageous to have as many talented people in employment, there really isn't enough available positions to properly satisfy (high paying jobs with good benefits) those talented/high IQ/etc. people who is out there. So you're kinda stuck with a talent pool filled with wasted potential regardless.

There’s also the fact that since those "non-gifted" people make up a large portion of any given population the economy would tank if they didn't have some form of buying power (which means you need a decent job).

>>8391259
wouldn't talented people be more effective at creating jobs though? I think we have plenty left to innovate/discover.

the article also says the top 1% and 0,01% affects society much heavily than its numbers

1. imo we don't have resources to nurture/identify all talented children and who are stuck together with less talented peers are fucked, because class dynamics go for the lowest common denominator e.g. it is frown upon to leave others behind

2. I agree on the numbers game in a different context though. Politics/popularitics works by the majority, one person accounts for one vote. By definition the top 1% will always be a minority thus the focus on quantity over quality

>>8391202
I wasn't exactly a prodigy, but I was way ahead of my peers. And it's true, it's hard to progress here in Germany. It's not even recognized as a problem, really. The focus is mainly to make sure that I'm as much as every other kid as possible and that is retarded.

Anyway, the main problem is that politics and media doesn't focus on objective upsides and downsides, it focuses on feelings. It's so much easier to feel bad for the poor and stupid for most of the people, as most people spend their lives being constantly overburdened. The idea that someone might experience the exact opposite is hard to imagine. There's jealousy involved as well of course.

>>8391319

>wouldn't talented people be more effective at creating jobs though?

No, because talent does not guarantee successful business ventures. And even when it does happen, it does not guarantee high output in job creation. Especially now in a society where it is advantageous to automate job duties as much as possible.

Facebook for example has roughly 13,000 employees at a worth of around +$250 billion.

Walmart on the other hand has like 2.3 million employees at a worth effectively at $200 billion.

Despite Walmart being the bigger job creator, Facebook is the richer one.

>I think we have plenty left to innovate/discover.

Of course we do, I fully agree with that sentiment. But not all innovations and discoveries are created equal nor do they produce jobs equally either.

>the article also says the top 1% and 0,01% affects society much heavily than its numbers

Yeah, the top percentile affects society much heavily than it's numbers simply because they are effectively at the helm of social development. But you only need 1 or 2 captains to head a ship, while you need 100 crewmen to operate and service it. The question becomes whether or not the next ship that is "created" will need as many crewmen to run it or will the newest innovations allow less crewmen to run it more efficiently.

>>8391202
Parents should take a larger role in their childs education. Relying on the government to taise your children is the real problem.

because it would make the dumbos feel bad :(

don't you understand how important muh feelings are?

>>8391202
Western civilisation is in love with the notion of equality. To say some children are innately more gifted than others would be political suicide. Especially when it turns out the most intelligent children are overwhelmingly from middle-class families.

uh Rampant cultural marxism in the media, government, politics, etc are focused on promoting the non-whites in our countries, not whites.

It is dysgenics & race replacement. The last thing they want is to run "gifted" programs to encourage intelligent kids.

Homeschooling and private schooling solve the problem.

>>8391531
If intelligence is a predictor of success, it seems reasonable to expect for success to also become a predictor of intelligence. Genes for higher intelligence will be found at higher rates in families that "made it".

>>8391202
>why
Because of moral hazard caused by teachers being measured by how many students pass, and NOT by how well students do in total.

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>>8391202
>why are we wasting so much potential?

Because teachers do not want to teach kids nor see kids learning in outside sources.

>>8391202
Unsurprisingly, the point went over your head. You can have two approaches to education:

1. "Growth model" Value effort
2. "Ubermensch model" Value innate ability

Studies show that NOT telling kids they're ubermensch is best, even if they are, because it results in a resting on laurals effect.

I've always found it difficult to understand why being able to count very well is a standard for genius status. It's no wonder that these child geniuses are troubled when all they are challenged to do is more science and math. How about asking them to read and comment upon the greats of literature, history, philosophy? Few of these kids, or when they become adults, have any real valuable to say about the world outside plus and minus, or binary theory. Boredom in school? Try asking a history teacher why Napoleon shouldn't be revered as a progressive leader. Bored with studies? Read post-WWII political biographies to find out what's gone wrong. Bored with your peers? Get a girlfriend and start having sex. These are the values of being human, not chasing game theory and making more money than the next guy in the unemployment line because your IT business went under after Chinese/Indian/Indonesians undercut your pricing ratios. We only ever really learn about ourselves by being in touch with humanity, which CAN include speaking to real people (but not always), but which always comes through by reading literature, history, philosophy, and socio-anthropology.

>>8391577
We don't currently know genes that grant higher intelligence. We only know some that prevent your brain from developing the right way, but not having them only makes you average.

>>8391668
I'm not sure your post is going to have much success, so I'll say it myself : I like what you said and think it's true.
(except you always need to speak to real people)

>>8391668
Perhaps this article sums it up well:
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20160929-our-iqs-have-never-been-higher-but-it-hasnt-made-us-smart

>>8391668

>I've always found it difficult to understand why being able to count very well is a standard for genius status.

It's not a standard it's a hierarchy, currently right now "geniuses" who are proficient in math, medicine and engineering are in high demand right now.

Centuries ago it was a little different where those in the visual arts (painting/sculpting), engineering (architecture/civil) and philosophy.

The only constant at the moment is engineering. And the prominence of math and science didn't really catch on until around the 16th century where there was over a couple thousand years worth of information to utilize.

>>8391679
Thank you for Correcting the Record.

>>8391695
the article in the OP cites some notable counterexamples why IQ is a poor indicator and it talks about the math portion of SAT

>>8391668
I give you the benefit of the doubt and don't consider your post outright bait, but you sound a bit frustrated

>why being able to count very well is a standard for genius status

it is not, and math is not about counting either. While I'm not a math person I could imagine your ignorance is borderline insulting to some.
The OP article also has this quote

> students who are only marginally impressive in mathematics or verbal ability but high in spatial ability often make exceptional engineers, architects and surgeons.

your assumption that child geniuses are troubled is basically false, and most of them have a healthy sexual life too, they are not your Hollywood Rain man.

Personal evidence but the few truly exceptional child prodigy I know are way better versed in any field you named than the average person. Most of them are way better at basically anything (including physical education), most of them just opted for STEM because of intellectual curiosity or money, but a few of them chose social sciences, though mostly economics.

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>>8391202
>>These kids often don't need anything innovative or novel,” he says, “they just need earlier access to what's already available to older kids.

This.

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>>8391319
>unabashedly promoting trickle down economics as a viable system
This system only promotes the creation of virtual monopolies focused only on profit and suppressing competition aka innovation.

>>8391621
>religious schools
I am not in favor of corporate funded Christian madrassas. Secular only.

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>>8392170
>implying all religious schools are the same as protestant ""schools""

Catholic schools are fine.

>>8391965
a bit cringy at parts and oversells itself at a few points, but it was a good read

>incentivize him with creative games like MineCraft

>>8391834
>>why being able to count very well is a standard for genius status
>it is not, and math is not about counting either. While I'm not a math person I could imagine your ignorance is borderline insulting to some.
>The OP article also has this quote
Not him but this is what I see is the general perception in the general population which is how I understood him.

That does not mean the perception is correct and indeed there are many other forms of genius status that involves non-numeracy abilities.

For instance you don't have to go that many hundred years ago when literacy was the key to genius status and being a bard (as in creative, not repeating old tales) was the ticked to the jet set.

>>8391531
*middle and upper class

>>8391621
There's more to it than that. No one needs Pepsi stuffing shit fast food down children's throats. This is happening while undermining the kid's access to public education due to some libertarian idea that public school is "socialism" and needs to be eliminated and children should be force fed sugary, addictive food making them fat and diabetic and given "free" private school in return.

It's predatory.

>>8394174
More like people need to learn self control and stop blaming the food.

>>8394174
The whole voucher thing is just politicians getting kickbacks from the rich private school directors

It's fucked up

>>8394380
>rich private school directors

kek.

>politicians

It was Pepsi giving vouchers/scholarships out to smart poor kids. Not the government.

>>8394409
I'm just rambling in general, not about pepsi

>>8394409
aren't private schools swimming in cash though?

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/09/is-harvard-so-rich-that-it-should-literally-be-illegal/280002/

>>8394956
>Harvard
>endowment

Are you underage?

1) Harvard is an university, not a primary nor secondary school.
2) Endowments are supposed to be huge because they fund scholarships/research off of INTEREST on the principal and are supposed to (hopefully) last indefinitely.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_endowment
3) Even the richest prep school pales in comparison to universities in terms of endowment. Rich fags would rather give their money to their university and not their old private school.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colleges_and_universities_in_the_United_States_by_endowment
http://www.thinkadvisor.com/2014/05/07/top-10-richest-prep-schools-for-2014-biggest-endow

>>8391202
>geniuses are the result of their environment and not biology
Sure is post modern in here

>>8395015
Most dumb fucks are dumb from their stupid life choices. Same with fat fucks.

>>8391531
Not to mention what kids believe they are better than idiot kids, which makes the idiot kids gang up in order to collectively feel more important than the smart kid. And Lord knows adults hate seeing a child who thinks they're worth something to the world.

>>8391202
>http://www.nature.com/news/how-to-raise-a-genius-lessons-from-a-45-year-study-of-super-smart-children-1.20537
“Whether we like it or not, these people really do control our society,” says Jonathan Wai, a psychologist at the Duke University Talent Identification Program in Durham, North Carolina, which collaborates with the Hopkins centre.

Exactly. Many do not like it.

In many European countries, including mine, pupils have a right to education adapted to their needs and abilities. That just does not happen if you are above the average.

Just simple things like letting the autistic not have to share class room with the ADHD would go a long, long way. That will never happen thanks to the mantra of "integration". The result is not nice.

>>8395828
I'm wondering whether leaving your child's education to public schools is neglect at this point. I don't know what I'm going to do when I'm going to have children in a couple of years.

>>8392257
>Catholic schools are fine.
Did you mean to post a different picture or something?

>>8391202
name?

>>8391202
Which is exactly why homeschooling is the answer.

>>8397055
for some it might be, but homeschooling also wastes a lot of resources, we don't need 1 adult for every child and not everyone is fit to be a teacher (well, if you happen to be, you could earn money as working one). Also, there are many legal problems with home tutoring, at least here.

>>8391202
You can provide for the gifted kids so much easier than struggling students. It doesn't detract from the latter effort to help both groups.

I have a 150 IQ, and while IQ is partially arbitrary and I'm by no means a genius, I can comfortably say I was above average in school. 6th grade I was interested in physics but had absolutely nobody to ask if talk to about the topic untill I was allowed to take the class in 10th grade. All I had to study the topic was a textbook and this resulted me in losing interest in something I otherwise would've explored if I were just able to pursue it with someone supporting me. It's not hard to have a few teachers employed who are always available for kids to talk to about any subject. From there those teachers can record the kids interests, give it to a councilor who will create a file for that kid, and then that councilor should be able to push for early enrollment in higher level courses.

That might sound like a lot but thats maybe a half hour of work per kid and a lot more effort goes into slacking kids.

I would've been willing to study in my own time had I had a close teacher who supported me instead of a biology teacher shoving uninteresting information about fish down my throat. So it doesn't take that much effort on part if the gifted and talented teacher either.

I brought this shit up in my school all the time. The response was about how no one likes to see a kid with an ego, adults disserve that kind of respect. They haven't even worked hard enough to earn their place in their parents house yet. Etc.

Generally the grown ups were idiots and hatred to see someone better than them because it wire them up and made them regret their shit lives, which anyways results in sperging rage

>>8391202
Ironically, attempting to dis-entitle some kids to make the playing field "equal" is having an adverse effect of most kids who think they're just as smart as the smartest kid.

Every person needs to come to the eventual reality that what they'll accomplish in life is going to be different and expectations should change with it. Some people really like and want to learn about random trades that should require some kind of apprenticeship or trade school instead of four year colleges.

Instead, we move away from these sorts of fields of study and make every kid need college education because they'll all be doctors, lawyers and scientists. I'm not saying to deter kids away specifically, but let them know their options.

Even when I was in high school, they began taking out whole classrooms dedicated to metal shop/wood shop and other technical fields along those lines. In the end you end up with a populace that is unorganized in its education as people learn some skills too late; then they end up in college studying a useless major and ultimately wasting their time.

>>8391202
The idea of supporting retarded student is not entirely wrong, given the fact that nowadays even the most retarded man can become a threat.
What I think is wrong is the school system, that is too rigid and don't prioritize the growth of the individual but actually the categorization of the student.

>>8391202
The lack of stimulating material for intelligent kids becomes really problematic in adulthood too, I think a lot of us here are guilty of this. Since in school a lot of us on this board didn't really have to try or work hard to understand the material, when we're thrown into the real world having never worked a day in our lives it's incredibly difficult to adjust to working life and I think that's probably one of the main reasons why intelligent people don't achieve their potential.

>>8397147
True, but we do have the olympiad for gifted children.

>>8397182
>The idea of supporting retarded student is not entirely wrong, given the fact that nowadays even the most retarded man can become a threat.
>what is firearms legislation
>what is consolidation of power into the hands of the ruling, mostly highly intelligent elite
Dumb fucks have no power in any country. They´re sometimes appeased by top brass who fear the possibility of dying to a mob of pitchwork-wielding, dissatisfied, revolutionary peasants. Beyond that, average joe is of no concern for the establishment.

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>>8397851

>Beyond that, average joe is of no concern for the establishment.

The average joe in a first world country if they applied themselves could put the fear of God in the entire country.

Bored teenagers doing clown dressup scares are shutting down entire schools and wasting police resources.

Diseases from third world countries due to unsanitary habits of the poor inducing nationwide health scares because aid workers and immigrant travel to and from those countries.

Disenfranchised youth and adults going on random killings because their "homeland" or "neighborhood" is in tatters.

Asocial people who lack thick skin and can't handle rejection going on rampages.

While the original purpose of education was to spread knowledge, the secondary purpose (which has far more reaching affects) is to pacify the masses so they may ultimately reinforce the infrastructure of a given nation, not to destroy it.

I thought /sci/ would have realized by now that the focus of programs to help non-geniuses isn't just about some sjw crusade but to legitimately make sure society doesn't outright collapse from sheer ignorance.

>Europe gets flooded with muds
>They stop focusing on gifted kids and start working to improve underperformers

Surprise surprise.

>>8395018
Genetics determines 100% of what we are.

because im rich and i dont want your smart ass kids to growing up to challenge my established wealth

>>8391202
>why are we wasting so much potential?

Because apparently no one can be asked to teach their kids how to read or do basic math before they show up in a public school.

>>8398093
Most Americans probably don't think they can.

>>8398093
>>8398099
And they're probably right.
I think we have a somewhat dangerous tendency to only think of well-to-do white people when considering the future generation.

There's a whole class of people who have less than stellar parents, and prodigies are essentially left to wallow.

>>8397964
My dude

>>8398093
I clearly remember in first grade (6-7y) most of us could read and count already. Granted there were some who never managed to learn in 8 years.

>>8397236
Word. Though higher education usually fix this. The high school -> university jump is massive, almost everyone finishes HS, but more than 50% who goes to university never gets a degree.

I can remember everyone in my 1st grade math class bitching to be moved up to the next level and getting shot down every time.

I would have died if I wasn't at a selective school. All smart kids need is to be around other smart kids.

>>8399132
dats racist n shit

>>8399132
Check your privileges:
>http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/30/nyc-school-cuts-popular-gifted-program-over-lack-d/
>http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/13/education/in-one-school-students-are-divided-by-gifted-label-and-race.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

>>8392165
Finally someone smart on /sci/

>>8391259
>properly satisfy (high paying jobs with good benefits)
You're not one of the intelligent people this conversation is about.

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>>8397954
You won't get a reply from him. Trumplets are like that ;(
>>8397116
>not everyone is fit to be a teacher
You learn to teach. It's almost the same as talking about your passions with women, but you have to be more specific and put the core of the trust between you and the taught one, on the progress and potential. Never conditioning your afection. Always explaining with passion.

if smart kids want to learn more they can read a book after school. it's more important for society to ensure that cletus and Jamal are employable instead of helping an above average student realize they have a passion for physics at the age of 9 instead of 14. "gifted" programs in my school district are nothing more than a impetus to have the school spend more money on field trips anyway.

>>8391202

Because it's unfair to give special treatment to increase the advantage already advantaged people have. That's not to say they should be held back either, but there are ways of doing things which don't involve a discriminatory cutoff point and active bonuses for those who exceed it.

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>>8399791
Marx plz

>>8400048
Lol, I'm not even *that* left. I just believe in the veil of ignorance, which follows directly from the political application of the golden rule.

>>8399250
>implying I talk about my passions with women

>>8399791
thats fucking ridiculous

>>8401041

How so?

The world is my ash tray.

>>8401327
You're demanding equality of results instead of equality of opportunities AKA hyper-communism.

Not even China nor the USSR dared do that shit.

>>8401344
China isn't communist. It never was, it never will be. The modern world has no communist countries.

Stop.

>>8399250
>being this biased
Go away CNN/MSNBC lover

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>>8401348
nice meme

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>>8400126
That's the trick when you have an inusual hobbie, profession or project.

>>8401351
It's my experience. Of course, science will only notice those dumb sociology studies, but you can practice that as I said.

>>8401344
>equality of results
Not communism

>>8401344
>You're demanding equality of results instead of equality of opportunities AKA hyper-communism.

No I'm not. I'm applying equality of opportunity. By giving special advantages to those determined to be the most advantaged (especially based on a discriminatory and far from decisive cutoff point) it is precisely equality of opportunity you are undermining.

>>8401372
Suck my meme.

>>8401372
>proprietary
>innocent
well memed my comrade