Is consciousness an illusion created by complex neural patterns?

>>8340847

Define 'consciousness'.
Define 'illusion'.
If you dont do this you show dishonesty and unwillingness to facilitate discussion.

>>8340860
Terms only exist as the children of other terms brought into existence by an emulation of instinct so if I were to describe both at the root of their meaning.

Consciousness: Agency.
Illusion: The former is a deception.

What is the part that is watching yourself think. The "you" that knows that is just the same for everyone else. The same feeling of self.

Does that come from the brain?

>>8340847
I think consciousness is a hypervisor of the brain. A "circuit" in the brain that monitors the rest of the activity of the brain and also can direct it's efforts. There was a really good documentary about consciousness on youtube. Might have been taken down by copyright but not sure. Anyone know the vid I'm talking about? It's an old documentary, made in the 70's or something.

>>8340847
That could explain the complexity of human behaviour and processing but not awareness

>>8340963
>watching
There is no such thing as passive objects.
>>8341469
So you just made up some arbitrary definition that says nothing. Wow.

>>8341478
Awareness is a flawed concept. It implies something existing but not in motion. The act of talking about something is motion, therefore nothing discussed can lack motion.

>>8341487
I have no idea what you are talking about, but im aware of that lack of idea so you're wrong

>>8341492
Okay then, how would a human that lacks awareness behave differently than a normal human?

>>8341499
They would not in any way

>>8341505
So then in a universe without awareness, we would still be having this thread?

>>8341511
WE wouldnt, although the thread would still occur

>>8341513
How could it occur if the thing it's about does not exist?

>>8341522
People have conversations about things that dont exist all the time

>>8341523
So awareness does not exist?

>>8341532
It does for us, it does not in the hypothetical universe without awareness you described

>>8341538
You are saying an invisible pink unicorn exists, but that your statement is not at all contingent on the existence of the invisible pink unicorn. Are you retarded?

>>8341543
What? I'm saying awareness has no physical impact whatsoever on the mechanical functioning of the universe. We know it exists because its the only thing we directly experience

>>8341554
So then it DOES have an impact because we couldn't be having this discussion right now if it didn't, because this discussion is an impact.

>>8341559
This discussion has nothing to do with the reality of awareness. Physically identical zombies that lacked awareness would also have this conversation, they just wouldnt be aware of it

>>8341573
Are you really that dense or just trolling? I can't talk about the apple I saw yesterday if that apple wasn't there. Words don't come from nowhere.

>>8341578
>I can't talk about the apple I saw yesterday if that apple wasn't there
Explain precisely how you distinguish an actual physical apple yesterday from a false memory of one.

My whole point is the awareness itself does not physically interact with the universe

>>8340847
The word illusion is abused and used wrongly here on 4chan.

>>8341596
Pretty much everyone uses it the wrong way in this context. Hardly unique to 4chan

>>8341595
So if awareness didn't exist, a false impression of it would magically exist in its place? Do you see how full of shit you are yet?

>>8341638
It wouldnt have to, it just could and would make no difference to an external observer

>>8341596

That's just because illusion is an illusion.

>>8341482
>So you just made up some arbitrary definition that says nothing. Wow.
I think that poster is correct, and they said plenty. You're just too fucked up and deficient to decode it properly.

Consciousness is probably relatively simple, but likely has complex I/O. It might be largely centralized, but could also be distributed. I think it's probably more centralized. Notice also I said "I/O" not "I". I don't at all buy the inane theory that consciousness is a mere watcher. It likely has director functions as well.

It might simply be a hierarchical series of parts along some portions of the overall chain, that duplicates and evaluates certain results.

>>8341650
If that is what it was, people would not treat it the way they do. What are the properties of consciousness that everyone will agree it APPEARS to have?

>>8341661
>If that is what it was, people would not treat it the way they do.
Elaborate.

>What are the properties of consciousness that everyone will agree it APPEARS to have?
Experience.

>>8341671
>Elaborate.
There must be an often ignored quality that leads to most explanations being unsatisfactory.

>Experience.
Can you be less ambiguous?

>>8341690
>There must be an often ignored quality that leads to most explanations being unsatisfactory
The fact that there is a "you" that actually experiences things. There is no satisfactory explanation for that

>>8341709
Maybe there would be if you started using real terms. Have you just given up and turned away? Can you really not see any part of it?

>>8341716
Feel free to come up with a better way to explain subjective awareness

>>8341690
-Shrug-
I don't really care at this point, man. Certainly not in the sense where I'd bother with communication.

Maybe some other decade.

Does anyone else sometimes get those heebie jeebies late at night

Like you feel as though your mind is not in the same place as your body and everything you're seeing feels like its being displayed on a monitor that's barely large enough to obscure your peripheral vision

>>8341727
Yes. I based an entire story on that idea.

Another for the pile of shit that'll never amount to anything.

>>8341724
>subjective awareness
Does not exist. It's a misunderstanding.

>>8341733
Don't let your dreams be memes anon

But for me it feels like I can almost see outside of the perimeter of the "monitor," I can almost see its border, but my eyes cant focus hard enough, even though I can almost """""feel"""""" the distance between my face and the "monitor"

Maybe I'm just a latent schizophrenic

>>8341735
>Does not exist. It's a misunderstanding
It is the one thing in existence we have direct access to. Your statement is absurd

>>8341478
In the documentary, they said that self-awareness is an artifact of the brain creating a meta-model for itself. When apes evolved they needed to predict what other apes were likely to be thinking about, and in order to achieve this, a meta-model of the brain within the brain was developed, and this is what we know as consciousness.

>>8341740
Something exists, but it doesn't have the absurd qualities people assume it has.

>>8341746
>self-awareness
Is not the same thing as awareness. I can conceivably accept that a lizard has awareness but it is not self-aware

>>8341747
I ascribed it no qualities except itself, and even the most basic and limited form of awareness cannot be explained

>>8341738
I can relate.

My dreams will likely remain memes, I can't possibly accomplish enough on my own. Best case scenario I get killed off or kill myself, which solves many problems.

>>8341754
You ascribe the quality of "being contingent on a human form".

>>8341786
No I dont

>>8340847

this is inane bullshit

fuck off

>>8341817
>I majored in computer science: the post

>>8340847
>Doesn't that mean that supercomputer emulated consciousness would be objectively superior to biological consciousness?

Define: Superior.

>>8340847
How can a consciousness be superior to another?