How do you lab monkeys feel that no matter how good you are in

>a CEO gets more recognition than his employees
Gee, that really made me think.

>>8251989
That was my point faggot. You think Elon Musk know how to engineer a rocket? No, but it doesn't matter because he uses the lab monkeys to get rich.

>>8251992
yeah he should have stayed in computer science after creating paypal

fuck people flying to space

>>8251967
Elon is a billionaire off of government subsidies. Seriously, fuck that guy. I can't stand how all of these dumbass millennials worship him becuase of Tesla when his company hasn't even made a fucking profit. FUCK.

>>8251967
Elon Musk is a meme. I actually like the guy but he's full of shit and that bubble will burst. He is not as omnicompetent as his fanboys want to believe.

>>8251967
Eh.

>>8252022
??? he co-founded pay pal. how is that government subsidies

any ways, i dont care if he gets the recognition. as long as im getting a fat salary to work for him.

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>>8251967
Hes a great entrepreneur who deserves 100x more respect then these ""tech"" CEOs who make a dank app then disappear

He is achieving great things with SpaceX, and the model S was a landmark car.

but I think he is completely delusional about distributed solar photo-voltaic being a feasible and economically desirable alternative to other bulk dispatchable low CO2 sources

I'm worried about Tesla, he is blowing through capital like a lunatic and acquiring this retarded government subsidy rent seeking company solar city is not helping the balance sheet. The model X is pointless and kind of ugly, the model 3 better be really good or else other car makers are going to catch up and they aren't wasting money on Elons Utopian fanticies

i am not jealous of elon musk

>>8252106
But he could still do more...

>>8251992
>You think Elon Musk know how to engineer a rocket?
He does have a BA in physics and economy. And he was busy with a PhD in applied physics and material science, but gave up to focus himself on his companies. And he is also the product designer of Tesla, and as well as a CTO of SpaceX, next to being the CEO of both.

I mean I'm not even a musketeer, but get your facts straight m8.

My neighbor used to work for Space X and said it's a shitty place to work at, you have to work a ton of hours and with hard deadlines. He said Musk does a lot of micromanaging and ends up fairly involved with a lot of things individual employees are doing and is an asshole. Worst part of it all is they don't pay too great and the benefits aren't stellar because they sell you on the "you're doing something great!" mantra

>>8251967
good, actually.

have you ever done the type of job he's doing? constantly giving talks, presentations, talking to investors and sponsors, all the while trying to manage a company, constantly having to make technical people explain their decisions to you in terms you can understand, then challenge them on their decisions, push their mental boundaries? i have. i'm telling you, it's not fun. i mean, the last part - talking with the technical people etc - actually IS fun, but you have so much other shit to do that you permanently feel like you're missing out on all the fun, technological action and you permanently feel like you want to do more of THAT, yet you have to keep the boat afloat by doing the public relations, investors, presentations shit.

i mean, in my opinion, technologically minded people who have the gift of being able to be in the public eye and of being able to communicate across layers of competence make the best leaders in tech projects. in that sense, he is probably the best case scenario compared to people like Steve Jobs (who i believe wasn't tech minded enough, he just cared about style a lot). i myself, even though it was on a much, much smaller scale, was (i think) doing a good job but it just made me unhappy.

so yeah, i'm actually completely and entirely fine with leaders like Elon Musk. i know he's demanding and a workaholic but hey, at least in projects like that you feel rewarded by your product, not just your paycheck.

tl;dr i'm totally fine with tech minded leaders doing the work developers don't want to or can't do

>>8252383
>My neighbor used to work for Space X and said it's a shitty place to work at, you have to work a ton of hours and with hard deadlines.

There was a few days ago an AMA on Reddit with an engineer turned HR or team leader or something at SpaceX. He said that this is basically a myth that disgruntled workers say that got fired.

>>8252390
>HR guy praising the company
who would have thought

>>8252390
I don't think it's a myth, the dude was certainly at work quite often and seemed really stressed. He wasn't fired, he did a lateral to NASA where he is now

In any event I'm not sure an HR person is exactly the best source on the topic, what are they going to say? "Yeah this is a shitty place to work, don't come here!"

>>8252397
I'm not really sure what he was. He was the guy that organised how the things are run there. You know how to improve the culture and atmosphere, how to make the environment better for work and you got the impression that he really cared about it, and his workers. He said that sure there are sometimes when they work harder to make the deadline, but it's not like it's all time time. They don't treat the workers as slave laborers I guess. I'm really not picking any sides here, since I have no experience working there. I'm just showing the other side, and what their viewpoint is.

>>8252404
Well I think it can be agreed upon that it is a tough fast paced place to work and you really have to be ideologically onboard to work since the financial reward isn't necessarily there

>>8252409
Agreed. They work hard and they have made a lot of progress in such a short amount of time, it's really amazing. I mean NASA, among others, has been catching a ride on their rockets for a while now(that is not an innuendo).

>>8252106

I think he realizes that he has 1-2 years headstart vs BMW, Mercedes, VAG. Model 3 essentially competes against 3 series, C class, A4 all extremely popular and renowned cars. Once the Germans get their e-shit together, the competition will eat into margins and volumes. The small executive class is not THAT big a market.

I think Model X was a mistake. Not because it's not a great car, but because of the huge opportunity cost. Musk I believe is whipping his engineers to catch up the lost time.

But...when you've got the best brains in the world working for you and have seemingly unlimited ability to raise and spend capital, you can afford to make a big mistake or two. But what he doesn't have is time. 12 months is forever here. BYD is coming from behind fast building its super battery factories and will probably take the <$20k e-car market where the big volumes are. Battery costs are going to plunge, which means more competitors will rise like mushrooms after rain.

I say invest in electric utilities, because in a few years electricity costs will explode.

>>8252022
Either you are trolling, or are misinformed.

Which is sad, since, how did you even find yourself on this thread??

Elon Musk (Tesla) was LOANED money from the US Department of Energy, which was payed back in full, plus interest, plus an early repayment penalty because the loan was supposed to be for a lot more years.

And even if Tesla Auto and Tesla Energy and SpaceX and Paypal don't make any profits, they've still created a market demand, got all the other players thinking, and developing clean transport themselves, and with the Gigafactory being created as a product (in of itself), to be duplicated around the world- with his team, based of his immense drive, Musk has single-handedly changed world history.

Oh yeah, we are going to Mars too.

If you want to feel bad about being old and missing the (electric, renewable) train, please do it in a dark corner where no-one can see your self-imposed distress.

I can feel your jealousy burning, ready to eat you alive.

So fuck off back to last century, you piece of shit Nothing Man.

>>8252022
t.buttblasted German

>>8252452
A loan is still a subsidy if it's not available from the market. Both Tesla and SpaceX would be out of business without the government bailing them out.

>>8251992
You fucking dumbass. You think CEOs in their position need to be able to fill any role of the different employees in the company to be worthy of a such position?

>>8252476
But why argue?

They are clearly a force for good.

You jaded cunt.

>>8252476
>Both Tesla and SpaceX would be out of business without the government bailing them out.
You do realize this is how businesses are run?

>>8252452
You sounded reasonable until
>Oh yeah, we are going to Mars too.
Then I just knew you were a full blown Musk fanboy. The man has done some cool stuff, but worshipping him like a God is just pathetic.

>>8252667
?
He's singlehandedly igniting the latent energy we've all had to transition from hydrocarbon to solar-electric.

He makes luxury machines that are faster than motorbikes.

He's building a factory which will more than double the world's yearly battery output.

He's landing rockets out in the ocean. He's ferrying gear to and from a station in space.

He is charismatic and logically untouchable, with an inspiring, honest and unrelenting drive to push reality into the realms of science fiction.

All his goals are overarchingly simple, morally and existentially solid, and each of the many ventures he captains, although each revolutionary on their own, are part of this great and noble vision for our species.

They hardly even advertise; the products, results and success speaks for them.

So I feel honoured to be called a fanboy of someone spearheading the fire, reason and hope of humanity. Never been called a fanboy of anything before.

It's not a Musk-only dream to have boots the Red Planet- it's just he's by far the most imminent, practical bet.

I've worked in enough varied industries (science, manufacturing, mining, education, retail, security and aviation) to know a common thread of how people can get inspired- and this man is the preeminent example. There's an energy and will to change, circulating amongst all the world's people, and now have a catalyst for change.

Let's drive renewable.

Let's get our ass to Mars.

And by the way; if you've EVER used PayPal, I think you should get grateful quicker.

>>8252452
>pay early to avoid interest
>get early repayment charge
Pretty jewed there

>>8255086
If a bank loans you money at some interest rate and some repayment period, the value of the loan is equal to the time discounted sum of all interest payments and the principal. Few banks end up actually holding their loan portfolio and just sell it on with the assumption being that value. If you pay it back early, they've lost money on you and so charge you some fee. This fee is not equal to the value you would've paid over the rest of the loan; usually they presume some percentage of the tranche of loans they are selling will prepay and adjust the value but charge the fee so that the ultimate tranche value is correct

>>8252667
SpaceX has been making progress, you should withhold judgement on his plan until it's fully revealed this September. If Red Dragon successfully launches in 2018 and manages to land on Mars a few months later, then SpaceX will have gained a whole lot of credibility. Just wait before you dismiss them completely.

>>8252106
It's because he fundamentally believes distributed systems give humans better outcomes.

With this reasoning, personal solar has a large external positive upside. By giving the power of energy generation to smaller entities.

Even if it did not compete favorably with centralized power creation, it still has value under this logic.

AKA, in stopping monopolistic sharks like Warren Buffet.

Personal solar is also extremely valuable when you understand the infrastructure costs. For instance in remote locations, countries without a grid, etc. It has huge upside in those cases even if it does not compete.

That is all meaningless though because solar power is the best power source. The only thing comparable is fission.

>>8252383
Yes, the hours can be long and the deadlines are definitely aggressive but I would say it's far from a shitty place to work and in fact I'm somewhat skeptical of people who universally describe it as such. I agree that it isn’t for everyone, but one thing I’ve noticed from working here and seeing plenty of people leave over the years is they tend to blame SpaceX for not accommodating changes in their lives. If you enjoy working at here for a number of years and then decide to have a kid and you no longer find the work/life balance acceptable, I don’t really consider that SpaceX’s fault. People change over time, priorities and circumstances change as well, SpaceX shouldn’t be blamed if it’s culture no longer aligns with your new needs. To be clear, I also don’t think that it makes someone a bad employee, or incompetent, or lazy, if their priorities change and no longer line up with SpaceX’s expectations. I don’t think that should reflect negatively on either the company or the employee, that’s just life. In my experience STEM folks, and I say this as one, tend to be some of the most coddled and entitled motherfuckers imaginable and can’t grasp the idea that the world doesn’t in fact revolve around their every need and that sometimes they will have to make decisions that come with certain opportunity costs.

I know quite a few people who have left over the years that I still keep in touch with. They generally fall into two camps; a small number are really unhappy in their new jobs, I know one who is in fact desperate to get back in at SpaceX despite moving out of state, but overall most are satisfied with their positions, although every one of them admit that there are things they don’t like about their new employers. The grass almost always seems to be greener on the other side. Most, even those who are extremely happy with their new jobs and have no regrets about leaving, still look back at their time here with fondness.

>>8256315

>>8252383
Again, this is just how life is. What is once the best place in the world to work might not be that in a few years time when priorities change, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.

I should also add that we’ve really gotten a much better handle on production in the last 1-2 years and the hours demanded, both on the engineering side, and even more so on the tech side, are much more balanced than they were a few years ago. I often see techs requesting more shifts even after 40-50 hours worked. Believe it or not there are people who specifically like working here because of the hours and pace. Someone who left SpaceX 4-5 years ago will probably have much more legitimate complaints about the work/life balance than someone who is here now, so this might skew things. Also, in my experience, the biggest complaints from a few years ago didn’t really center around the hours, everyone knows what the expectations here are, but more around the unpredictability of scheduling. Even people who are normally ok with 60-70 hour weeks get pretty pissed when they plan some trip on one of their few weekends off only to have to cancel at the last minute because of some production fuck up. This is the area where the biggest progress has been made over the last few years, it’s much easier to schedule time off in advance now.

I’ll try to get to some of the other points in this thread if I have time today.

>>8251967
Happens all the time.
They take the role of king.
Anything that happens in their nation is because the king is under control at that time.

Steve Jobs is another good example.

>>8251992
You might actually be legit retarded

>>8251967
how about not "reading" pop-sci media on a daily basis?

>>8252383
>He said Musk does a lot of micromanaging and ends up fairly involved with a lot of things individual employees are doing and is an asshole.

Musk does tend to poke his head around a bunch of different projects but I wouldn’t really say he micromanages people. As long as you get your work done you’re pretty much left alone here, although like anywhere else there are some higher ups known for micromanaging their groups. I think Musk just likes getting involved at the lower level so that he can get a pulse for what’s going on in the company. I wouldn’t describe him as an asshole but he can be pretty matter of fact and doesn’t put up with bullshit. If you challenge him on some idea you need to be able to back it up. You’d be surprised how many engineers don’t like having their work challenged and loathe explaining their decisions. It’s like simply asking for an explanation is an affront to their genius. On the other hand, I’ve been in group meetings were people much higher up the food chain than me have gotten into some heated debates with Musk, and I’ve never seen him hold a grudge or use his authority to squash dissent. He’s also pretty accessible if you have an issue that you feel isn’t being addressed. I’ve seen techs come to his desk before to complain about things they felt weren’t being addressed properly by their supervisors.

>>8256424
Whatever your opinion of the guy, he really does know his stuff when it comes to making rockets. I’ve walked through our production floor with him before and he pretty much knows every piece of equipment we have and what it cost. Most people who don’t have a good understanding of precision manufacturing walk into our production area and are blown away by the machines and the stages being assembled. If you actually know what to look for though you might be surprised. You can go to the CNC shops at LockMart or Rocketdyne in Canoga and see brand new Matsuura machines were as here you’ll see some piece of shit HAAS on it’s last legs. He’s extremely cost conscious and this culture permeates throughout the whole company.

>>8252404
>Worst part of it all is they don't pay too great and the benefits aren't stellar because they sell you on the "you're doing something great!" mantra

Pay is definitely on the lower end for the industry but it’s not as bad as sometimes made out to be. We tend to start lower but ramp up quicker after the 2-3 year mark. I would say that for most people by year 4-5 they are pretty close to if not exactly at industry averages. Of course, this is LA so pretty much all engineers here working in aerospace will be lower paid when taking COL into account than those in CO, WA, or TX. You do have the benefit of SpaceX’s reputation as well as a kind of cultural bias in tech hiring, so I’ve seen plenty of people move on to more lucrative jobs at tech companies(FB/Google) that they probably wouldn’t have been afforded if it was Boeing/LockMart/Northrup on their resumes instead of SpaceX. The other benefits like healthcare, cafeteria food, gym memberships are actually all really good and I’m not sure where that rumor came from. In fact, I’m pretty sure in talking to people with families who have come over from traditional aero/defense firms that our health coverage is as good if not better than most. I’m going by their word though since I haven’t had a need to utilize it myself.

>>8252390
>>8252397
>>8252404

You should definitely take anything coming from HR with a grain of salt. It’s not all roses and sunshine here and I know some otherwise really talented and hardworking people who have had bad experiences here due to incompetent managers. I’m sure this is the case with all companies though and I like to think we generally keep those situations to a minimum. Not everyone who leaves here, even among those who are fired, are bad employees though, sometimes things just don’t work out. With that being said, you should be equally skeptical of overly negative reviews as well. Whatever your views are on SpaceX, I want to make one thing absolutely clear; at every single point during the hiring process we make it clearly known what the expectations are for prospective employees regarding their work output, commitment and hours. During your first phone interview, SpaceX tells you what's expected. During your second phone interview, SpaceX tells you what’s expected. First on site interview, guess what, SpaceX tells you what’s expected. Second on site interview, SpaceX tells you what’s expected. Final panel interview, SpaceX tells you what’s expected. When you come in to sign your hiring paperwork, SpaceX tells you what’s expected. You’d think that after all that there wouldn’t be many surprises right? Yet, even after all that, every once in awhile we get someone who’s worked here for 2-3 months and then suddenly throws a fit when they can’t get off at 5pm on a Friday even though they’ve know for 2 weeks that the schedule called for a late night. You would think that someone with a MechE degree from a top 5 program would know better, but you’d be wrong. And this kind of shit gets really annoying fast.

>>8256434
continued

Brian is actually a really stand up guy, although again he’s obviously there to paint the company in the best light, and a huge improvement over some of the dumbfucks that populated HR before him. It’s also nice having someone in that position with an actual engineering background and who knows the workings of the company, rather than someone who studied eighteenth century English literature or “communications”.

>>8256429
>>8256432
>>8256434
>>8256436
Thanks for the replies and the others

My neighbor who worked for SpaceX left a few years ago so it's possible things have changed a lot since. Deffo a great company to work for it seems like but I think if you're not the most motivated dude in the world it wouldn't be a good place to work

>>8251967
>tfw you will never design autistic assembly line processes at the gigafactory

>>8256443
Np. And I want to make a point of saying that not everything is great here and it could well be that your neighbor was in a particularly toxic group or that the SpaceX life just got old, that shouldn't reflect poorly on him. But I see a lot of people who's priorities change over the years and then blame SpaceX for not wanting to accommodate them. I don't think that's fair either.

Anyway, hope my added info is worthwhile to some anons. You can pretty much apply this to most companies when making decisions on what to expect.

>>8256459
I think he went over from JPL when the company was young and then as it grew went back to JPL

Most of my info from him is secondhand thru my dad too so I may not know the full picture.

>>8256466
JPL can be hard to beat if you're in a good group, I actually did research there for a while. Things go at a much slower pace though and you have some dead weight, particularly at the top, so it's by no means perfect either. There's definitely a better work/life balance though.

I like the South Bay but I really miss Pasadena.

>>8252489
they should be able to understand each role, if not fill it, otherwise how do you expect them to coordinate people who are coordinating those lab rats? you should think more.

>>8256448
That seems like a pretty awesome job tbqh. What kind of people design factory layouts?

>>8257112
Industrial engineers. They're mechanical engineers that focus on designing the machines that make stuff, and optimizing the workflows.

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>>8251967
>>8251992
>boo hoo, I just found out how society and life work

>>8255026
That's not my religion but okay.

Ya I wish Musk was more Mark Cuban and all those others great tech CEOs making real contributions.

Oh wait Cuban is a clueless fag and musk is probably one of the best CEOs around.

so many musk dick riders ITT lmao

I wonder if they own teslas

This kind of fanboyism only come from people who invested too much money and are trying to validate their purchase

>>8251967
They don't give a shit and they do what they love, stop being a little insecure faggot and you'll understand

ITT: No one can disprove the fact that Musk is fucking awesome

>>8256473
>>8256429
May I inquire what degree you did to get there?

>>8257456
Yes, he has enought money to kill everybody who wants to disprove :D

>>8257546
I studied MechE/Aero and while that's a pretty common degree here there's a fairly wide range of degrees represented.

>>8251967
In late 2001, Mueller began developing a liquid-fueled rocket engine in his garage and later moved his project to a friend's warehouse in 2002.[1] His design was the largest amateur liquid-fuel rocket engine, weighing 80 lb (36 kg) and producing 13,000 lbf (58 kN) of thrust.[1] His work caught the attention of Elon Musk, PayPal co-founder and CEO of Tesla Motors, and in 2002 Mueller joined Musk as a founding employee of Space

>>8258099
Thanks.

>>8258114
Np. For applicants coming straight from undergrad the biggest factor tends to be involvement in projects like Formula SAE or other robotics/design competitions. Basically anything that shows the ability to work independently over long periods of time.

>>8258175
>tfw going into 3rd year EE
>tfw not a member of any of those organizations

my main interest is VLSI stuff anyway and it doesn't seem like there's much to do with clubs and that

>>8251994
Yeah, fuck innovation. We don't need cool electric cars that have good performance OR space flight. I just want the next iPhone - gimme it!

>>8251992
because those lab monkeys have the capital to do it on their own, right?
when people come together to provide elements of an undertaking it's called co-operation.

>>8256510
They don't need to be able to do each job to know how each job works and how to manage them.

People like you just get insanely jealous that you'll never have the practical skills to be a CEO. All you can do is push numbers around,.

>>8258538
I probably should have been more clear. While Formula SAE and robotics clubs are two popular things I see among interns/applicants who end up getting offers they are by no means the only things HR looks for. I've seen plenty of people get hired who either didn't have those clubs available at their schools or are in fields of study that don't have those same kind of opportunities. Basically, in my experience, they just want to see that you're passionate about something, and this should go beyond just coursework, unless you really have an exceptional academic background, and are also able to work independently as well as part of a team.

I know a guy on the recovery team who presented a ridiculously cool trebuchet he built during his interview. I also know an FPGA EE who is really into RC planes/helicopters and presented a custom drone he built. In addition to my prior work/research experience I talked about restoring early 20th century bank vault lock timers as part of my interview. Stuff like that tends to get people here excited.

Why are there so many Musk cocksuckers on this board? I can't fucking wait for SpaceX to go bankrupt so I don't have to listen to these retarded fanboys.

Hopefully an earthquake takes out LA soon.

>>8258611
Fuck off you corporate shill, no one wants you here.

>>8256510
That's not a ceos job. It's downright impossible to do that to the level employees work at.
That's why you have a board, with an engineering director, medical director etc etc depending what you have. They know what's up and pass it on to the ceo so he can do, you know, the business.

>>8258611
Just wondering, even though I'm sure I know the answer, does the spaceX team include geologists / geophysicists? Specifically geochemists?

>He thinks people do science for recognition and awards

>>8259439
Most of the retards have exactly that as a goal.

>>8259428
I haven't heard of any geophysicists or geochemists being on staff yet, I'm obviously not privy to everything going on though.

We're building launch sites which involves quite a bit of geological work, and while we outsource a bunch of it, I'm pretty sure we have a few people on staff to oversee the longer term planning of those projects.

>>8260296
Do you not need geologists for colonising Mars?

>>8260361
I would assume we will hire them at some point but I don't think there's an in house need for more than a few geologists at this point.

>>8260364
Won't they need to think about landing sites soon?

>>8260365
There is plenty of outside expertise that is available in those areas and that SpaceX can call upon. I should probably be careful what I say here so this is as far as I'll go regarding this specific topic.

>>8251992
>You think Elon Musk know how to engineer a rocket?
He actually does.

>a CEO gets more recognition than his employees
>Gee, that really made me think.

He's not the CEO, he's the CTO.

>>8260920
>He's not the CEO, he's the CTO.
From wikipedia:
>He is the founder, CEO and CTO of SpaceX;

So he is actually both.

>>8251992

Who you think pays those lab monkeys and pays for the equipment to get innovation?

>>8252094
>im getting a fat salary to work for him.
Do you actually though? I've heard a lot of great things about working for Tesla/SpaceX from people I personally know, but salary was not one of them.

If you don't mind me asking, what was your educational/vocational background, where do you work, and how much are you being paid?

>>8262563
I don't think that poster is the SpaceX guy in this thread. I'm pretty sure he just meant hypothetically who cares about the CEO taking credit as long as you're getting paid.

I blame journalists. Silicon Valley journalism is a joke and it's bleeding technological discussion dry. Journalists get fixated on these people like Jobs & now Musk and they expect answers on such varied topics that these people in no way experts.

>>8252667
Just a few days ago SpaceX shipped out a prototype Raptor rocket engine for end-development testing. It's much more powerful than the Merlins powering their F9s and it's a methlox engine, a type of engine that only the Russians have managed to master so far. Not even the American aerospace supergiants with near infinite resources and endless funding from the government and the military have managed that feat, and yet here's a startup that's barely older than a decade with a tiny fraction of Boeing/Lockheed's funds+manpower kicking their asses royally and managing to get these things off the drawing board and into dirt cheap production rockets.

SpaceX is the real deal and they're making big shit happen at a breakneck pace. As long as they can maintain their current level of momentum and energy I have no doubt that there will be lively cities on Mars by the time I'm in my 50s and 60s.

>>8262612
Yeah, tech "journalism" at this point is either vapid celebrity CEO worship or needlessly cynical.

>>8251967
ITT: butthurt scientists argue with Elon shills

>>8252390
>HR/PR guy says Space X is great.
>In related news the sky is blue

>>8251994
>after creating paypal

This is the whole point of this thread. Dude didn't make paypal, he made the mailing list software, practically the fucking log in button. The actual guys behind it don't have their name plastered everywhere paypal is mentioned though because Musk is the one with all the money.

>>8255026
>He's singlehandedly

He's not "singlehandedly" doing shit, assuming we have the same definition of single-handedness, which, giving you spend your nights jacking off to Musk's 'achievements', we should

>He makes luxury machines that are faster than motorbikes.
>He's landing rockets out in the ocean.
>He he he

_he_ doesn't make shit. He manages the people that do

>He's building a factory which will more than double the world's yearly battery output.

Yeah call me when that happens. Also don't forget to hit me up when he opens up that farm that will double the world's yearly output of corn and rice as well

>He is charismatic and logically untouchable

To you, but then so are static pictures of men with large cocks so I mean..

>All his goals are overarchingly simple, morally and existentially solid
Then why are you lauding him as a hero if a fucking retard could achieve those things
Coupled with the above, he should be getting paid out the ass by organizations all over the world who share his visions, and yet all but a few of his companies are in the red

>part of this great and noble vision for our species.
You must really hate the human race if your vision of us in the future is limited to a dusty red rock that has no benefit to anyone who isn't already involved in astrogeology, driving cars that are only a little bit more efficient than our low CO2 cars and only in certain environments, paying for things using an online platform instead of just entering your card info, and a vacuum tube that is only of use to suicidal risk-takers in California.

>Let's drive renewable.
Nah my car is pretty good, and cheap, and has low emission ratings.

>Let's get our ass to Mars.
Nah, here I've got fiber, tons of porn, lots of food, and enough video games to last a century, and soon we'll have sexbots to cull the population

>And by the way; if you've EVER used PayPal, I think you should get grateful quicker.
Nah, I can type out my card info when I need to.

>>8264710
>You must really hate the human race if your vision…

1) It's been proven repeatedly that all sectors of science and technology make great strides whenever we're pushing ourselves to our limits. This alone is justification for colonizing another planet, and Mars just so happens to be one of the better options for a first attempt at permanent colonization beyond Earth.

2) The efficiency of batteries and solar panels is constantly increasing, and that's not stopping any time soon. Beyond that, electricity can be generated in numerous ways and electric vehicles can always be retrofitted with vastly better power storage devices should they suddenly appear. ICE vehicles on the other hand will always be shitty absurdly inefficient petroleum burners no matter what you do.

3) Depending on how it's built, an online service *COULD* be far more safe, secure, and convenient than cards could ever be. PayPal isn't that service, but the creation of such a service is entirely possible.

>>8264951

>1
Right, so it's no longer about how awesome Mars is, it's "If we g-go to M-Mars we might want to d-do other things". Jesus christ if anything, please stay out of finance, I'd hate it if someone like you ended up managing billions of dollars.

>This alone is justification for colonizing another planet
Lmao in what world? Definitely not ours thankfully.

>Mars just so happens to be one of the better options for a first attempt at permanent colonization beyond Earth
I think you missed the point.I don't think anyone outside of very niche online circles cares about it any more than they care about the fact that they can "buy" pieces of the moon. There is nothing up there for the populace, any practical purpose for being up there is limited to very few group of scientists, astrophysicists and geologists for data purposes, and if we ever reach the point where we can make very capable intelligent machines it is almost certain the entire payload will consist of machinery and no humans. The world doesn't spin on fantasy.

>2
What does the efficiency of batteries have to do with solar energy? You realize that there other ways of filling up batteries that are much more efficient than solar and that rely on either the petroleum cycle or nuclear? Solar is not 100% efficient everywhere in the world, this is what you millennials don't understand, we cannot run the world based on idealized conditions. Where petroleum works better than solar that is what will be used, whether you like it or not.

>3
Okay so...what was the point of this? I don't use PayPal for anything other than eBay, and only because it is automatically linked to my account. It helps that I'm not wiring thousands of dollars to Chinese Nigerians off the coast of Saudi Arabia for gold shares. If it's not from Amazon or eBay it's from some professional business I have no problem typing my card out in their form for. I couldn't care less about a service like PayPal, just like I don't use Bitcoin.

>>8251967

I don't care. Being famous sounds like it would be fun for like a month.

>>8264992
>Mars
I don't really feel like debating it if you've consigned it to pure fantasy. No matter what I say you're not going to budge. All I'll say is watch carefully for the next decade or two.

>batteries and solar
Nobody said anything about using solar only. They're a piece of a larger sustainability energy puzzle. I'm fully supportive of nuclear, for instance, but nuclear power plants and solar panels solve the same problem in different ways (centralized vs. distributed, macro vs micro, etc). If you have both on the grid, you'd need less power plants and would have much better redundancy. The answer to our power problem isn't singular; there is no cureall.

>>8251967
I feel like inventing decentralization type stuff.

>>8265154
>solar powered dehumidifier