Does /sci/ agree that attending university lectures are a waste

>>7865495
You're right, I never go to lectures and I get great grades.

What else is there to college anyway? I can have a social life outside of class.

Textbooks can sometimes misguide you so it really clears up many doubts. Also, if the professor is really good he could make it worth it. Exams can also cover shit not in the program if the professor decides it. Emm and well, textbooks can be pretty difficult to maintain focus on even if the subject is interesting.

>>7865514
Ssh I'm trying to get this idiot to pass up all the great opportunities that going to class and talking to professors make available.

I don't agree. If I study on my own I can go faster and do more but I feel like the lecture forces me to think more about what I am listening to.

>>7865520
Expanding on your point, learning material without discussion is an epistemological mess. People can get a misconception and reinforce it with each problem.

>prof wants to explain something
>he asks "does anybody know X?"
>noone says anything
>after 30 seconds of silence asks "does anyone know [precursor step to X]?"
>noone says anything
>proceeds to explain X via the convoluted precursor step as if everyone is a retard
I really hate this. Just tell what you gotta tell and answer questions, instead of trying to force some stupid dialogue.

>>7865537
I answer everytime I know the answer because I find the silence sad. It makes feel bad for the prof, you know.

>>7865554
I do it too sometimes but it gets pretty tiring giving half-assed answers to ez questions.

>>7865537
Because explaining things to others is the best way to learn. Too bad students are too autistic these days.

The only solution that gets the class engaged is to let the students work pairwise for a few minutes, and then to collect answers from every pair.

TLDR: Show some respect and answer the questions

>>7865517
All the great minds never concerned themselves about the opinions of the professor. They learnt from the textbooks written by professors and came up with their own interpretations of material made possible only by their greater free time.

Assuming you do not spend this additional time on /b/, I do not see this "great opportunity" you reffer to. Nor do I intend to become a masters student and become chubby with my proffy

>>7865558
>tfw the professor tells me to not answer [random question] to let others participate.
I hate it, everyone starts looking me as some kind of god and asks for homework help.

>>7865571
You know great minds worked in collaboration with other great minds right? No genius suddenly said "TADA I INVETED THIS NEW THEOREM".
You are also not as smart as you think.
>inb4 4.0 gpa

>>7865571
>They learnt from the textbooks
Pretty much this. I have 200+ textbooks on my area of research, including some rares, and god knows how many pdfs of books/papers.

>>7865580
But you don't need to go to lectures to be able to speak to your prof about what you read out of the book.

They tend not to like to use their office hours (opinion that I get from them), but they should like talking to enthusiastic student otherwise bored with lectures

>>7865596
Yes, but if you show enthusiasm in a lecture you can manage to get along quite nicely which is really important in academia. If you just go to their office hours they will feel offended because you are not going to his/her lectures.

Just go you lazy fuck.

>>7865537
Have you ever taught a course before? He has no idea what you retards understand or what you're thinking if you don't converse with him.

>>7865606
Guess so. If only for >>7865514 and that I'm not forbidden from reading the book and doing assignments in class.

I just don't understand what you lose by giving up three hours a week to go to class and discuss what you read with a professor. Why is this so hard?

>>7865626
I have lots of projects I want to work on. Academia is not where I'm supposed to be.
I'd rather be in the field delivering coffee and getting yelled at by a boss and working my way up.

But you can't advance without a degree.

>>7865633
Are you saying that fetching coffee would be a better use of an hour than going to class?

>>7865644
If you gain information on how to deal with uncooperative people and see how other experienced professionals work; It's my pov that you are gaining skills than a 101 level class, plus you are not paying tuition fees to do a service for an industry you care about.

But if you look at it as the idea that all education is valuable, I get what you mean.

Life is not that simple that a position like that would pay off.

>>7865644
The point is you get paid.

>>7865665
It seems that lately people are confusing /sci/ for /money/.

>>7865659
>>7865665
>serving coffee is a good use of my time
>muh money

you got the wrong board newfriends

>>7865495

>waste of energy forcing yourself into a normal sleep schedule when your productive hours are from 10AM to 3PM.

this so much

>>7865674
Not about the money, where I live the government convinces you money isn't valuable.

>>7865674
>1950
>Want to be engineer do apprenticeship, learn engineering and get paid along the way
>2016
>Want to be engineer, spend three years living off of a loan to sit in a room listening to a guy who could have just recorded his waffles on youtube and saved you the trouble.
I'm not saying university education is bad but AT THE VERY LEAST drop lectures and move it online. There is ZERO fucking reason to go to lectures in 2016 when everyone has broadband and a PC.

>>7865691
What happens if you have a question then?

>>7865691
Except lectures aren't supposed to be a professor blathering on for an hour. You're supposed to ask questions and generally have a dialogue going.

>>7865691
Wut?

I don't think engineering has been a profession with an apprenticeship system since Italy in the renaissance...

What really pisses me off is mandatory attendance. Why should I have to do group with a bunch of autists

>>7865703
That is reasonable. You should have the alternative way as an option.

>>7865703
Afraid you're the only autist in the class.
Mandatory attendance isn't preferable though. Doesn't help generally either

>>7865703
>"Why do I have to do group work?"
Easiest way to spot an autist.

>>7865703
Nothing is mandatory, faggot. You can always drop out.

>>7865703
>What really pisses me off is mandatory attendance
You'll really hate having a job then

>>7865698
>>7865701
Email the professor
>>7865702
Engineering has been apprenticeship based in England for most of the 20th century. Practically every chief mechanical engineer of British Railways up until the 1960s started out as an apprentice.

>>7865495
Many engineering students who are about to fail calculus agree with you.

But I'm sure you're part of the one-in-a-thousand who are exceptions to the rule, because you're special.

>>7865717
>Email the professor
You will never get a recommendation letter.

>>7865717
Christ dude. Good luck getting that job when you seem hellbent on never being around people.

>>7865717
I meant in a real country.

>>7865718
Calculus is an easy course. Just coasted along derivatives, integrals and differentials.

Problem is that the material requires me to put in more work now and it might be better to change my approach to learning in classes.

>>7865731
>differentials
Plz don't tell me engineers actually do this.

>>7865724
nice ad hominem
How about you try explaining why sitting in a room is required when you can just watch it online?
>>7865718
People currently fail due to skipping lectures because there is no alternative. That is zero evidence that someone diligently following online lectures will also fail.
>>7865742
duh, differentials are very useful.

>>7865495
Depends on the lecturer, honestly. Same as with peer study groups and such, If the people are good, it's worthwhile.

Most professors only test the material from lecture, making the textbook a complete waste of time and money. I prefer lectures anyway, less interruptions from students with dumb ass questions and if I already know the material I can skip the lecture without being noticed or browse on my laptop. You can also sneak into lectures you're not registered for and no one would notice, you won't get any credit but you can still learn a lot for free

>>7865615

There are better ways to gauge understanding than asking random questions about the material. The solution is to have minimal lecturing, and then use the class session to pair off and solve a set of questions. In this way they get more out of the class period, are actually doing training in the subject, and providing you with a gauge on understanding.

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>>7865817
>do as you propose
>after exam students complain the questions were not covered by the lectures
>yfw

>>7865698


This is just silly. There are an infinitude of resources online for answering questions. There are multiple textbooks available to gain different perspectives and angles on a topic, and there are forums for outright asking specific questions. There is also e-mail and office hours at which most substantive questions related to problem solving will be asked anyways.

>>7865715

Why bother defending mandatory lecture attendance with this false analogy? Jobs are much better than going to lectures because lectures are OBVIOUS relics from a technology-lax era where everybody had to meet up to hear a "professor" "profess" stuff.

>>7865720

This just shows that using recommendation letters for considering entrance into anything is mostly based in social bugaboo and has everything to do with how buddy-buddy the student was with their professor and nothing to do with the merit of the student. The first thing I do once becoming a professor is to immediately place recommendation letters at the bottom of their application portfolio and not reading them unless it's an exceptional case like a colleague who I know is a genius telling me that the kid is the smartest person he's ever met or something.

>>7865724

This is a strawman. Nobody is claiming that aversion to lectures are good because it is good to avoid people in general. The claim is that lectures are bad because lectures are mostly formatted very poorly and are a huge waste of time.

>>7865817
>pair off and solve a set of questions.
This is what problem sets and office hours are for, so this seems completely redundant.

>>7865840
>Many online resources
It is easier to have a concrete understanding of the material if you discuss it with the professor and students. You can get a direct answer to your particular questions. Professors hate to answer emails for petty questions or for that case office hours.

Having mandatory attendace is bullshit though

>Social bugaboo
>Being this cynical
Do you think any job or the world can function without some fucking interaction? You are still in highschool I presume.
>This is a strawman
Go the fuck back to /pol/ you breathing retard.

>>7865840
Recommendation letters are the best we can do, not a social bugaboo. Would you trust a kid's GPA and standardized test scores (which are not meaningfully different from most of the applicants) or would you trust somebody you know is intelligent telling you that this kid is the real deal?

>>7865856
>Having mandatory attendace is bullshit though
It's a necessary evil for lab work, presentations, and practical assessment.

The worst 10% of students create so much shit it ruins the education for a whole class.

>>7865856
>you breathing retard
excuse me?

>>7865576
Give them the wrong answer everytime they ask for "help" so that they fuck off.

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>>7865691
>hurr current year
>why dont we just

>>7865890
>2016
>still breathing
Dude it's a waste of oxygen

>>7865495
Taking grad classes without attending be like:
>We have a book, but all the notation in the homework is going to be totally different, and no, I'm not going to explain it again in office hours.
>Oh, you missed the lecture on the Serre handout? No, I don't have any more copies, sorry.
>Grading curve? No, I give A's only to people whose names I remember. Those people must have come to office hours enough or something.
>Why do you have a question about problem 7? I gave the solution in class.
>Sorry, I know you've been e-mailing me LaTex solutions to the homework, and I've actually been using them as solution sets to the homework. You've saved my grad students a lot of work!... but I explained on the first day of class that homework can only be turned in orally, during discussion period.

>>7865701
>>7865698
>>7865691
Why not have live video conferencing when it happens where you can interact and a recording if it all if you missed it?

>>7865691
The real answer is that you are in a tuition farm.

>>7865495
I attend the majority of my lectures, but my field is a lot more hands on so being able to ask lecturers stuff is a big help

Your most productive hours are when you are blind if not saturated by artificial light?

>>7866156
>live video conferencing
You mean like a chat meeting? Or personal chat? The former is just retarded, but taping lectures is something many students do.

The latter is ideal, but there are not enough qualified professors.

>>7865495
The cartoon joke is that the kid was sleeping in class? The teacher looks like he's being sexual.

>>7865717
>Engineering has been apprenticeship based in England

>England

meanwhile the rest of the world adopted some non retarded standards in the 1700's.

>ITT OP doesn't understand that college is a hazing period where you have to prostrate yourself before the higher mind

good luck getting a LOR, research position, or internship from a professor who's class you never show up to.

You'll be one of those faggots who graduates with a great GPA but complains about being unemployable. You will blame the school system too.

>>7865495
low-mid tier universities are a waste.

high tiers depend on major

top tier are worth.

>>7865571
A) That is just stupid. Although all of them had an independent approach to their studied does not mean that they did not benefit from being in a good environment and/or receive guidance from a mentor of some sort.
B) You are, statistically speaking, probably not a great mind and should most likely get back to class. (inb4 "hurr brainlet", "hurr projecting this hard")

>>7866177
>You mean like a chat meeting? Or personal chat?

Like a live video conference. Do you not know what that even means?

>>7865495

Sounds like you have shit professors.

ENGAGE WITH YOUR SUBJECT YOU FUCKING UNGRATEFUL AUTISTS

>>7867047
since when are engaging with the subject and engaging with the professor dependent on each other?

>>7865495
Top tier professors give you a level of insight into the material that's not found anywhere in books or the internet (best example I can think of is lectures by Eli Stien at Princeton. Watch any of his talks if you're an analyst. Or, if you know of his books, imagine that level of insight x 1000 because he's there in person for you to ask questions to). If it's a bad teacher, I agree that it's a waste of time.

>>7865626
Classes last 2 hours each at my university. I study physics and each subject has usually 3 classes a week. Commuting from home to school takes 1 hour. And then 1 hour back. Most classes are boring as fuck.

>>7867104
Being around other students and subject experts discussing the subject is a better way to learn it than reading a textbook alone in one's room.

>>7867230
>Being around other students and subject experts discussing the subject
since when are these dependent on going to lectures

>>7865495
No. I would say there are huge problems with large classrooms and that not all lectures are necessarily worth always attending, but if you want a good explanation for something, you ought to let the person who knows what they're doing explain it their way first, then ask questions about how they explained it rather than how a book written by someone else explained it.

My ideal class would be a book written by the actual lecturer with all if the principles in simplest form and a class full if 10 or so students which involves a brief lecture followed by "group office hours". That's not fiscally practical though.

>>7865571
>starting with "all great minds"
>opinions of the professor
>implying they're teaching opinion

>>7867253
>No
By which I mean "No, not all of /sci/ agrees with that," rather than "No, just cut class".

>>7865495

I'm not going to pay thousands and not attend.

>>7867233
Lectures are the easiest way to accomplish those things.

>>7865495
>Does /sci/ agree that attending university lectures are a waste of time ?
Depends on the textbook. Sitting down with a good textbook and its solutions manual is a great way to learn, but you're fucked if you try and learn from a textbook like Shigley's mech design by yourself, terrible book.