So is there ANY degree left that is not overrun? I guess medicine?

>>7847828
by 2025, CS is going to experience the biggest industry growth known to mankind

>>7847855
Why 2025?

>>7847828
No.

As long as the government keeps pleading "STEM and skills shortages" , virtually every field of work will be swamped by applications.

Considering that Bernie Sanders wants to make "education free for all", thats exactly whats going to happen, but worse. I won't be surprised if employers soon start requiring a Masters degree just for a cleaner's position.

what can you do with a Masters in Condensed Matter Physics?

>>7847863
a job at a call centre

>>7847863
Research and teaching. If you want to go outside of academia, just go for an engineering.

>>7847860
At least everyone will be smarter. Imagine a world if they didn't do free public school. Now multiply it when they do free uni.

>>7847874
a masters in engineering? is that allowed?

>>7847828
Very few; our social infrastructure was never designed to have EVERYONE go into academic fields. Look around a cups and you'll see like 80% of the people there don't actually have any interest in what they're learning.

We need to change the high school system in the US, let people who're never going to excel at classical schooling learn a trade instead. That way you cut off the college disaster from even happening.

>>7847941
that's asinine. you should be increasing the number of job sectors that require those degrees, not the other way around. your approach would lead to the economic disaster from 2008.

Regardless of the answer, please take note that "not working in STEM" does not mean unemployed or making minimum wage or anything like that. You have no idea what those people are doing.

>>7847856
Judgement day.

>>7847951
No the guy you were responding to but you can't inflate job sector or job requirements without a demand and expect growth. To inflate things as you suggest, you must do one of two things
1) by widening the job sectors, you water down degrees. You can't specialize a CS degree in Java, because you'd also need to prepare them for VB, C or Python if they will be a variety of sectors. Jack of all trades, master of none.
2) Because everyone has a basic level of education, your specialized degrees take lower level jobs, and higher level jobs require even more education. Your labor force is older and in more debt when it starts.ME degrees won't make your auto mechanic more efficient, and a business degree won't make the rep at Best Buy help you pick out a TV better.

If "institutes" can offer entry level certifications in 6-12 months, why can't high schools in 4 years? I would bet money that of the "80% not in stem", most are in the service field (foremen, technicians, analysts etc). These people still make good money, there is no shame in it.

>>7847951
Artificially implanting jobs is exactly as harmful as artificially inflating currency. A lot of current economic problems in the US come from certain people being grossly overpaid and not spending more proportionate to their income, effectively taking money out of the economy. Artificially creating jobs creates salaries that don't stably reflect a benefit to anyone other than the people receiving them.

>>7848068
how do you expect people to go into trades in thralls and not have the same issue? all you did was move the problem that has arisen with degree holders to certificate holders. it's just moving the source of economic strife to another sector.

Knowing that everyone else is going to be poor too makes me feel a little bit better about my poverty status.

>>7847855
>THERE WILL BE JOBS ONE DAY IN THE NEXT MILLENNIUM I CAN FEEL IT
Fuck your predictions. Jobs now faggot!

What job market increases as the general job market decreases?

>>7848116
foodservice?

>>7848116
cum guzzling

>>7847828
All that we have to do save the economy and our jobs it to pass a law that makes it illegal to get a job unless you have a >3.5 GPA

Seriously, look at that number. 252000. Do you think all of them are actually skilled or pationate? Fuck no.

I would be generous and say that half of them are. So that is 126k. Add to that masters and PhDs, which are obviously competent.

Then, we ignore people with associate degrees and people who came with H1B visas because they are morons and we are left with:

126k + 80k + 20k = 226kcompetent people

That is all..Everyone (who matters) has jobs and there are still thousands of open positions that I guess we can give to the retards. I suggest we make them fight to death like gladiators for that job position.

>>7847828
Sorry for being dumb, but what is this image supposed to arguing?

>>7848124
There are more skilled workers coming out of university per year, than there are new open jobs per year.

File: 1452668906499.jpg (93KB, 577x575px) Image search: [Google]

93KB, 577x575px

>>7848122
too bad the people who would vote for that would all be under that criteria.

>>7848124
There is a push for STEM degrees, and this infograph argues that for a given number of available jobs (blue ball), there are a disproportionately large number of available candidates (red balls). Basically, no jobs :(

Should I study physics?

>>7848129
But the only people who would have to vote for it are in congress. They already have their 10 million salary from donations from wall street. The fuck they are going to care if they themselves not fit the >3.5 GPA category.

Plus, it would prove to be a good move. We made university to make an intelligence divide between those who ought to get hired and those who don't. That is why any degree, even shitty ones, give you a higher pay. All we have to do now is create a second divide of who gets jobs and the best would be grades. >3.5 GPA is very reasonable.

>>7848132
STEM may be crowded, but so is everything else so study what you want.

>>7847828
That picture is grossly misleading though.

It suggests that the people not working in stem atm are just sitting there waiting in line for a shot at a stem job. A lot of them are probably successful businessmen or work in some other sector making good money. Not saying that the stem grad that graduated 2 years ago and is having to work at walmart doesn't exist but it's nowhere near the majority of the number in that pic

>>7848142
You do realize that a 3.5 at an Ivy League is vastly different than one at a shitty state school right? You can't apply a blanket GPA because it doesn't work like that

>>7848150
Then just pass a law that regulates grade inflation.

Or maybe, to get a job you have to first take a state approved test that will give you your 'job GPA'. If you get more than 3.5 then you are elligible to get a job, if not then try again next month.

>>7848122
Yay grade inflation. University wants money, post-graduation job acceptance rates low.

>Rev up those A+

Come to ________ University. Highest jobs out of school! Students flock.

>3.9 GPA is shit now.

Great idea anon.

>>7848126
>>7848131
Sounds like now is a good time for startups that make use of engineers. You can get them cheap.

>>7848098
I said no such thing. I'm not the trades guy. However what you can't seem to understand is that people can't just be given a job in whatever they want, certified or not. There needs to be a need for the given job to weigh against the money being taken out of the economy to pay for it. In the case of STEM, the people in charge of hiring are so intermingled with the people responsible for the value of money that they would never hire in excess for fear of destabilizing the economy further than it's already been. How much is it really worth to have another research assistant around? Is it really worth the cost of having 780,000 doctors in the US? How about paying defense secretaries billions of dollars a year?

>>7848161
The problem isn't the degree, it's the associated experience. Two years out, no one cares what your GPA was and potentially what your degree was in, only that you have experience doing what they need you to do.

The problem is there are too many people. Most jobs are essentially makework projects that aren't necessary. The entire service industry is a meme designed to prevent the implementation of socialism and its still failing.

The only solution is mass reduction in population or government provided basic income.

>>7848169
Startups have motley crews. They just want people dedicated enough to look up what they don't know so they can fill multiple roles.

Now is a time of expansion. We as a society can make use of the more educated workforce. We just need to shift the economy a little.

Would anyone here be interested in starting a guild where outside of our day jobs we have a chance to utilize our skills for non commercial projects? I feel that even if getting a stem job is a pipe dream now I still want to put what I've learned to some use, even if I'm not getting paid for it.

There was never a stem shortage. It's a lie that's perpetuated by corporations looking to flood the market and drive down wages.

The government endorses this idea because Americans are fucking fat stupid shits and desperately want to solve this problem by taking shortcuts rather than actually reform our broken education system.

You just need to move to China where your degree will be worth big bucks. 20 to 30 thousand a year U S.

>>7848184
>It's a lie that's perpetuated by corporations looking to flood the market and drive down wages.
I've been saying this for years, and people just told me I was making excuses for my shit GPA .

>>7847876
>free uni
come to Germany

>>7848098
At least it would spread the problem more thinly.

>>7847876
Free uni would simply mean watered down syllabi and higher drop out rates.

>>7848189
People with low grades shoudl never criticize the educational system because it just looks like you are bitter about your low performance and want to blame someone else.

File: ROASTED.gif (3MB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1280x720px

FUCKING NERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRDS

>>7847828

No one should ever trust any statistic on the internet that doesn't cite sources for data, or doesn't explain how the data was handled. It's so ridiculously easy to make a statistic say what you want it to say.

Just to be clear: I don't trust the infographic you posted.

>>7848194
I just find it delicious that people telling me that years ago are now in the same shoes.

>>7848194
People who call repairmen should never criticize the repair because...
People who call the cops should never criticize law enforcement because...
People who don't cook should never criticize the chef because...

This is what you sound like. The performance is irrelevant if the metric is skewed.

>>7848210
Say what you want but it is true. It just makes him look bitter about his low performance and wants to shift the blame.

It is like when liberal arts students and graduates rally for free university, lower cost of university, higher paying jobs for everyone, and higher minimum wage.

They just look bitter that they took a shit degree that qualifies them only for Mc Donald's and now want to shift the blame to the government, which OBVIOUSLY has to do something to save them from their own bad decisions.

This is definitely why there should be free college for everyone.

Feel the bern.

>>7848228
>Hillary 2016 because of muh feminism
>Hillary is owned by wall street
>Wall street bankers buy all universities in the country
>Completely turn them into business, starting by doubling tuition
>See Hillary do jack shit about it

R.I.P. AMERICA 2016

>>7847941
Isn't this sort of how Japan does it where they test into high school and sort of have this specialization right away.

>>7848210
>People who don't cook should never criticize the chef because...
drawfags always seem to have this attitude.

Anyone here do nuclear physics? Looks like a solid degree job-wise here in the UK

>>7848184
Exactly.
The bad thing is that everyone buys it.
The market will be flooded with clueless STEM degree holders that are now overqualified for most jobs.

>>7848276
is there anything that can be done about that? raise awareness?

>>7848196
http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/education/the-stem-crisis-is-a-myth

>>7847828
There are an assload of jobs in medicine. M.D. = no worry for jobs just because its so absurdly competitive now.

business - a dead horse that has been beaten to ash
law - overrun
bio - (see business)
STEM - overrun
Engineering - if not overrun already, will be in the next couple years

Everything is overrun. theres no magic job major anymore. you need to be good at what you do or your degree isnt worth jack.

>>7847860
Look at fucking UK I got a masters in maths and have to fucking codemonkey now. Don't fall for the free education meme it has a cost

>>7848302
>if not overrun already
it is, I certainly can't find work

>>7848155
You are proving through your generalizations that you cannot think critically and proving the point (assuming you have a GPA>3.5) that your proposal won't have the proper effect.

>>7847941
that's how most countries that offer "free college" work, it's harder to get into a traditional university and you are usually put into a learning track when you enter high school

>>7848193
except thats not what happens in the real world

>>7847828
Medicine is overrun with Pakis and sandniggers now, though. What ever happened to majority European doctors here in Europe?

But to answer your question, I doubt things like Chemistry and Robotics are overrun.

>>7848222
its a moving goalpost , what counts as "low performance" will keep being pushed further and further

>>7848179
Exactly. People saying we need to reduce our level of education are idiots. Excesses of skilled, educated, wealthy people with nothing better to do have driven every technological revolution in history.

>>7848552
>I doubt things like Chemistry and Robotics are overrun.
>Chemistry
>not knowing it's the most oversaturated field in human history
You have to be 18+ to post here.

>>7848306
What did you expect to do with a masters in mathematics? PhD or go home.

>>7848116
Prostitution?

>>7848773
>wealthy
you cannot have an excess of wealthy people

>>7848868
I would argue that any amount of wealthy people is an excess.

t. Marx

>>7847876
>At least everyone will be smarter
It is difficult for me to imagine what "being smarter" is enjoyed by an unemployed person, who goes about hungry, and cannot find employment.

Only losers need that.

People who are good will be a scarse and precious resource in any kind of market

>>7848116
>What job market increases as the general job market decreases?
Politicians'

>>7848161
>Sounds like now is a good time for startups that make use of engineers.
Gloryholes?

>>7848183
I'll make the logo

>>7848556
Well, people generally keep getting better, especially in how different years score in similar tests, so yeah

>>7848552
Europeans don't work as hard

>>7848116
Economists, it's the one job that does better when the economy goes to shit.

>>7848116
Prison guards

if you really love your field why dont you start your own business?

>>7847828

Nope. Growth population will continue to rise and more and more people will get degrees. There just isn't enough jobs for everyone. Low level jobs will be taken by robots in ten to twenty years, so people will try to get a higher degree just so that they can stay competitive. Thirty years from now employers will be asking for Masters and PhDs just for entry level positions in their respective field. Hell, most sciences like Chemistry and Biology need a Master's degree if they want to even get hired and do actual work in their field.

>>7849775
>employers will be asking for Masters and PhDs just for entry level positions in their respective field.
They already do in some cases

>>7850485
This is true. If, for whatever reason, you want to go into finance then you're looking at needing to have a masters at minimum.

>have a choice between studying medicine and chemistry
>I really wanna study chemistry, but I guess I could do medicine too
So, med school is a better option if I wanna earn money?

>>7850496
also I'm not in the US so the pay difference won't be that much

File: entry level.png (7KB, 664x140px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 664x140px

>>7849775
>Thirty years from now
you're off by 30 years

>>7848193
>Free uni would simply mean watered down syllabi and higher drop out rates.
maybe that is what will happen in US because of all negroes and "diversity". However look at Germany. They have arguable the best unis and it is tution-free.

>>7849775
I'm taking night classes for my Master's in Aerospace Engineering because all of my coworkers already have one, and I'll be the first on the chopping block when bad times come without one.

>>7847876
>At least everyone will be smarter. Imagine a world if they didn't do free public school. Now multiply it when they do free uni.

Yeah keep up with the wishful thinking and you might just ascend to the 5th dimension.

>>7849775

The only way I see out of this conundrum are two possible solutions:
>another massive world war that kills off a couple of a million or billion people. After that we see another "baby boom" era
>commercial space travel is finally possible opening up the entire solar system up for colonization which will cause large numbers of people to go off planet in search for discovery or adventure

>>7849775
I find it funny. In Europe, if you want to work in your field, you need Master. Period, almost no exceptions.

>>7847828
https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2008/189/9/rising-tide-medical-graduates-how-will-postgraduate-training-be-affected

>>7850607
>>7849775
Do many people assume that they get a job with just a BSc? A BSc degree mostly just covers the basics of the respective field, I always assumed that you need a MSc to actually be useful in any field.

>>7850576
Why are Germans so fucking full of themselves? You do realize your undergrad programmes are considered some of the worst on the planet right? That's why you had to revamp your system, but you failed. Your research ratings are ok, but your education is utter shit.

Anyway you're intetionally flooding your universities with underperforming Syrians and other foreign studetns at the moment.

>>7850629
>A BSc degree mostly just covers the basics of the respective field
Maybe in your shitty country. A bachelors actually means something at good universities. You can work with a bachelors in all non-retarded countries who didn't water down their degrees.

>>7850639
But according to >>7850607
The current situation in Europe is, that a BSc is not enough for a decent job.
So, it seems that it's not just my country. And my opinion is, that with a BSc in Physics/Math/other stem,
you actually are not prepared to be useful at all.
Depends on the job you want to do though, of course you can become a code monkey with a BSc.

>>7848122
10/10, like when chiang kai shek made inflation illegal

>>7850662
In the UK, a bachelors degree is fine for getting a job.

>>7850756
I followed a guy on youtube who couldn't get a job despite his phd in chemistry, last I checked he managed to get unpaid volunteer work.

>>7847828
Nope. You will be forced to work shitty fast food jobs/call centers no matter how many qualifications you have. University is a massive waste of time. Deal with it.

>he's trying to artificially eliminate competition

Fuck off, commie

>>7850502
oh i was going to say, you could be a millionaire as a doctor. getting accepted to med school here is literally like winning a miniature lotto. way too many people try to play.

chem makes millionaires too, but at a far far far far far far far smaller ratio. There a professor at northwestern who discovered a drug a few years ago that made him 700 million dollars.

STEM is such a broad field, wish there was a chart with more specific majors.

>Not realizing that the market was intentionally flooded with degrees to drive down wages

http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/education/the-stem-crisis-is-a-myth

I bet you believed the 100k any job I want meme too.

>>7851335
Nah I don't want to be a millionaire, just have a comfy life and a job that I like to work. College is free here so I can pretty much study both, there's an entrance exam for med school tho.

>>7848255
What is /ic/ doing in this thread

Medicine is secure job everywhere in the world. The top payed specialities (with the exception of "let me put you to sleep and end my day" guy) are tough as fuck and demand a lot of mind preparation and vocation.

>>7847828
Trades

>>7851335
We have great med education in Argentina (yes, the meme shithole "white" country) and you have to pass a relatively hard exam to enter; pass the exam and you are good to go.
Is it really hard in US? I have a couple friends that went to study at the US and ever since then I never heard anything else from them

I guess physics isn't overrun. But from what everyone here on /sci/ says, getting a good job with good salary is impossible with physics.

>>7851083
I rather waste my time at university than starting to wagecuck with 18 years till I die.

>>7848314
I've never seen someone BTFO this bad.

>>7847900
You must be an idiot, most good universities offer up to PhD level in engineering

>>7847863
>what can you do with a Masters in Condensed Matter Physics?

Pack fudge accurately?