If there is no god then how are we here? >BUT WHO MADE GOD,

why do you care if a god exists or not?

>>39496307
>God exists out of science
That's not an argument either

>>39496307
>has always existed
that's not how it works
>also that 3rd frame
begging the question

>>39496307
>How can matter have always existed?
Since it is not possible to create matter, it follows that it must always have existed.

>>39496416
It's in the bible though

>>39496307
>i came from nothing
Do you remeber where you were before you were born ? No ? Then you can say you "came from nothing".
Also who created god ? Did he "came from nothing" ?

>>39496307
Why does it have to be god and not gods? I believe in a pantheon of gods and I don't see why that isn't valid.

>something can't come from nothing so you should believe ancient stories from humans who had nothing to do with """""God""""" and just passed down history/tried to control their village.

Do you believe everyone who claims to be the son of God?

>BUT WHO MADE GOD, HMMMM
i haven't heard something like this since elementary school.

this board is nothing butt teenage newfags now who respond to the same troll threads that get posted every week/day.

>>39496464
>Since it is not possible to create matter, it follows that it must always have existed.
Why?

Also, the universe is slowly losing energy, so the energy can't have always been here. There's a limited supply of it. There must have been a beginning.

>>39496523
Who did make God?

>>39496498
No, I didn't come from nothing. I came from a sperm cell and and egg cell. God didn't come from anything because he's always existed.

>>39496554
I mean wher does your consciensiousness come from ?

Remember that time Noah got so drunk that he showed his son his dick and then cursed all of his decedents to be slaves for all of history?

>>39496540
>Also, the universe is slowly losing energy
Where is this 'energy' going?

>>39496570
>I mean wher does your consciensiousness come from ?
God

>>39496476
About that Bible of yours, here is its history in an easy-to-follow movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg

>>39496574
Remember that time God told David to deliver 200 foreskins to some king when he only had to deliver 100?

Maybe it's beyond our comprehension since we're not omnipotent and omniscient.

"Why is there something rather than nothing?" is a difficult question, and it's not something that any of us can reasonably answer. "Because God" isn't actually a response, you're just dodging the question - you've shifted the framing to "Why is there God, rather than nothing?"

>>39496645
Remember that time God sent bears to kill children for calling some guy bald?

why are theists so afraid of "we don't really know"?

>>39496697
Religion is pretty intellectually lazy in general, it allows people to hand wave any argument with "The lord works in mysterious ways, because the bible said so".

>>39496697
It's not a question, it is a word-trap.
Why means "for what reason(s)/cause(s). In order for something to be caused, there must be something to cause it. If there is nothing then nothing be caused. Why always connects two or more distinct things.

>>39496784
feynman shows that so well in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36GT2zI8lVA

I think it's more likely that there is a reason/purpose for existence than that there isn't.

I think it's more likely that the universe having a reason/purpose necessitates a creator than that it doesn't.

I would say there's a decent chance there is a creator, but of course this creator is not defined by any human religion.

>>39496708
Remember that time Jesus cursed a fig tree for not having any figs when it wasn't fig season?

>>39496642
You didn't refute anything I said.

>>39496823
I disagree with him there. I think the point of Science is to explain, not just describe.

>>39496645
Remember that time Abraham circumcised all 318 of his servants on the same day?

>>39496307
>I don't know, but it sure as hell wasn't magic.
there fixed

Remember that time Lot got date raped by each of his daughters on two consecutive nights and managed to impregnate both of them?

>>39496342
>Why do you care if the omnipotent creator of reality and the secret to immortality exists or not?

>>39496307
But who made God? Just because you mock an argument before it's posted doesn't make it invalid you insecure brainlet. Also, no atheist over the age of 20 would say the universe came out of nothing. We don't know where it came from. Scientific theories say that there was probably a singularity that expanded, and that just explains our current universal environment. We have no idea where that singularity came from, if it was the only one, or if it's even that significant on a much grander scale. Heck, we already have proof of our universe being damaged by colliding into another one. We don't know the start, we haven't figured out creation. Take your strawman atheist and shove it up your ass.

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>>39497032
Secret of immortality: End all religion on Earth, give scientists free reign to dabble in genetic engineering and all the funding they require, everyone is immortal within 50 years from today.

>>39496307
Which God made it then?

>>39496307
But I am god :)

>>39496498
God exists outside of our laws. God is eternal, he has always existed.

>>39497274
Describe the laws that govern god. Remember, if you can't comprehend them then you don't know them therefore you have no argument and are just larping.

>>39497383
God isn't held down by anything, he can do whatever he wants.

>>39497419
see this post very originallo trust me robot
>>39497383

>>39496307
The universe always existed. nothing never existed. there was never a state called nothingness. Even if the universe had a beginning, since that beginning was the beginning of time as well, the universe has existed for all of time, forever. There is no such thing as before the universe. There is no way for you to say a god exists outside of space and time for a duration of time known as eternity.
And who created god is a relevant question. if something must exist without cause, I cut out an extra step that you have. If you want to call the universe god be my guest but I ain't worshiping it or personifying it.

Why the fuck do people think causality is inherent to everything?

>>39497419
This desu
Why do people assume god is effected by laws he created.

>>39496848
why do you think it is more likely that life has meaning than not?

>>39496307
The answer is if god exist he doesn't give a fuck, if we came from nothing the universe doesn't give a fuck, If there is some other option it doesn't give a fuck.
>Creation or not our existence is meaningless

>>39497543
>The universe always existed
There's a pretty solid theory out there that the universe is inside a black hole that's the size of the universe itself. Meaning it may be possible that multiple universes exist and that this one hasn't always existed.

So what's wrong with saying that the supposed "nothing" that created the universe also existed outside the laws of science?

>>39497419
What gave you that knowledge? What if God is the only god but not the only thing that creates? What if God was created by another thing that creates and that other thing was created by yet another thing that creates and so on and so forth?

Why not?

>god carefully arranged all the atoms of the universe for a solid 13 billion years all so he could tempt some faggots in a garden to eat an apple

This mythology is fucking stupid

>>39496342
>>39497032
This combined with the fact that it's so fucking omnipresent in culture, or at least in America.

>>39496574
That's not how the story goes. The story goes that Noah passed out naked in his tent and one of his sons (Ham) laughed at him while the other two sons covered him up. Genesis doesn't say anything about a slave curse. There is a Jewish rabbinical tradition that Ham's descendents were cursed with being black, but that's just a Jewish thing.

No amount of empirical evidence will disprove the existence of god in some form or another, so it's pointless to think about
I wish I practiced what I preached because that shit keeps me up at night constantly.

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>why does something exist rather than nothing
this is question that always gets to me
>who created the universe. It couldn't have come from nothing.
>it must be god
>then who created god. God couldn't have come from nothing.
So I hold this belief that the universe IS god.

>>39497718
If there is detectable evidence of a multiverse I'll amend my thinking. there's a point where everything stops. but there is no outside of that set of everything. Idk if our universe's time is separate from the laws that define time in a separate universe or the multiverse as a whole.

>>39496307
There are arguments for and against, but on't be so cocky to put your faith into either one as it's difficult to prove
On the one hand it seems like something as chaotic as this earth came to be through a perfect plan from an all loving god is not something that can easily be trusted, on the other there must be something that brought existence, and I can't fully trust science

>>39496307
>not an argument
nice one

>>39496697
Not exactly. Shifting initial causality from the universe to God isn't just an arbitrary choice to support various religions. It's because people look at the created universe around them and conclude from philosophical premises that the universe cannot have its cause of being within itself, and that therefore, there must be something outside the universe that does. That sort of argument does not just say "God did it". It would take further argumentation to deomnstrate the attributes like omiscisnce that are associated with God.

>>39496751
>say we don't know if god exists, we cant prove god does or does not exist and that it is impossible to know or prove
>everyone starts freaking the fuck out saying you either HAVE to believe he exists or doesn't
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

>>39496307
>I need a god because if not, how does X work???
brainlet.

>>39496500
Monotheists would argue that God's attributes preclude the existence of multiple gods. Thomas Aquinas mentions three arguments in the Summa Theologiae. The easiest one to understand is the second one.

>Secondly, this isprovedfrom theinfinityof His perfection. For it was shown above (I:4:2) thatGodcomprehends in Himself the whole perfection of being. If thenmany godsexisted, they would necessarily differ from each other. Something therefore would belong to one which did not belong to another. And if this were a privation, one of them would not be absolutely perfect; but if a perfection, one of them would be without it. So it is impossible formany godstoexist. Hence also the ancientphilosophers, constrained as it were bytruth, when they asserted aninfiniteprinciple, asserted likewise that there was only one such principle.
http://newadvent.org/summa/1011.htm#article3

>>39497958
Genesis 9:20-27
>Noah, a man of the soil, proceeded to plant a vineyard. When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent. Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father naked and told his two brothers outside. But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it across their shoulders; then they walked in backward and covered their father's naked body. Their faces were turned the other way so that they would not see their father naked. When Noah awoke from his wine and found out what his youngest son had done to him, he said, "Cursed be Canaan! The lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers." He also said, "Praise be to the Lord, the God of Shem! May Canaan be the slave of Shem. May God extend Japheth's territory; may Japheth live in the tents of Shem, and may Canaan be the slave of Japheth."

>>39498285
Okay, my apologies about the second part.

>>39496307
>Contrary to everything we know about the way universe works
Quantum fluctuation basically allows particles to appear out of nothing.

>>39498416
So long as there is a net 0. Do you think there's an antimatter universe?

>>39496307
Why are Christians so edgy?
>This is god he's my OC character
>he created everything and he can do literally ANYTHING
>Once he FLOODED THE ENTIRE WORLD AND KILLED EVERYTHING
>and if he gets mad at u, he sends you to his personal TORTURE DIMENSION called Hell... for ETERNITY... so u best watch out kiddo
>also he knows LITERALLY everything
>His son was Jewish, so he nailed him to a piece of wood FOR THREE DAYS AND KILLED HIM... And now he forces peopel to drink his blood...

>>39496307
We don't fully understand the form and function of the universe yet, where particles can come from and if this system of expansion etc is cyclical, nor do we understand the nature of god.

Both of you are fucking retarded.

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why are you newfags not saging this shit holy fucking

>>39498463
The thread is not about Christianity or about the Bible. It is about the existence of God, which was believed by many pagans as well.

>>39498443
Energy still comes out of it so its not that crazy of an idea that it could've caused the big bang.

>>39496464
get your facts straight dinglehood
it has already been observed that matter can appear and disappear at random presumably by its positive "matter" part colliding with its negative "antimatter" part, and those splitting would create matter

any existence has no meaning or purpose

>>39497886
>>god carefully arranged all the atoms of the universe for a solid 13 billion years all so he could tempt some faggots in a garden to eat an apple
>This mythology is fucking stupid
Yes, because he made the universe in six days.

Remember that time God created the universe in Genesis 1 and then He created the universe again in Genesis 2?

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>>39498105
>tree vs machine argument intensifies

>>39498416
>Quantum fluctuation
Literally magic

>>39498588
To imagine any being could do that in either time frame is stupid, especially for the result to be the story of the bible. And if young earth creationism was true, creating the world to appear to be 14 billion years old is even stupider.

>>39498588
>>39498588
>Made the earth in six days despite not making the sun (what we would use to count days) on the first day

And that's not even taking into account all the science that says the universe is billions of years old

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>>39498516
Good comic. Really made me think.

>>39498623
more like literally chaos.

>>39498609
It's extremely obvious that chapter 1 gives an overview of creation, and chapter 2 is a detailed view of the sixth day.

>Implying God is a who

>>39499022
gods make more sense as non-personified concepts. Take death for example. a nearly unstoppable if not completely unstoppable concept.

>>39499022
God is a Whomst've'ed't

>>39498578
>anti matter
That is just a fantasy used to plug the holes in the fallacious model of physics used by mathematicians.

>>39500294
It's been observed and so have it's effects.

>>39499187
>God is a Whomst've'ed't
what did he mean by this

>>39500379
No, it has been inferred. Just like I can infer that invisible spirits are responsible for the rotation of the planets around the Sun.

>>39500884
You can literally create antimatter. It's expensive, but it's possible. Why are you butthurt at antiparticles?

>>39496307
The general consensus is that the universe has always been here or maybe we're all in or on a black hole who knows? But did god put it there? That would take a lot of massive jumps in logic and I don't want to spend time pretending to love a myth so I can feel a little better on my deathbed.

>something exists therefore it had to be made by something
People actually believe this?

>>39496307
bait? oregenal

>>39501231
No you can't, dumbass. You're like someone who believes farts are spirits of his ancestors and then farts to prove it.

>>39496576
He means usable energy. The potential energy difference in the universe is slowly decreasing and evening out everywhere. Plus the general density of energy is decreasing because of the ever-expanding universe.
Usable energy (to make particles interact) is running out. Very slowly, but it is happening, culminating in heat death.
Where did it come from?

>>39504387
It didn't come from anywhere and it isn't going anywhere. Energy is an abstract concept invented by Aristoteles.

>>39496589
Dude... so we start out as some DNA shit coming from two beings and that DNA is like some code that determines how our body, including the brain, is put together. The brain is just a collection of these cells and they form networks documenting experiences we've had a things we've seen. Over time we build up this huge network of experiences and that is our consciousness. This is fucking insane. Life is fucking insane. Nothing should exist at all, especially complex life like us. Holy fuck. What the fuck.

>>39496498
>>39496552
>>39497543
>>39497981
Asking who created God or what existed before Him is nonsensical.
God is atemporal. The rules of time doesn't apply to him.
Just how dark matter does not interact with electromagnetism and isn't affected by it, and just how light doesn't interact with the Higgs field, God is not affected by time.
You are basically questioning the ability of light to travel or to push spacecrafts (i.e. solar sails) because it doesn't have mass.

>>39497032
seriously, why do you care if the omnipotent creator of reality exists or not

>>39504566
It's litteraly this. They foolishly think that the laws of causality can be applied to the One who created them.

>>39504417
Well mass exists, correct?
The amount of mass that exists is constantly decreasing. To create mass, you must also create the exact same amount of anti-mass which will annihilate each other if they ever touch.
So for mass to ever have been created, it must go directly against what all current observers are reporting and our understanding of the laws of the universe.
Why should continuity of rules cease when the universe was a second old?

>>39504649
>Well mass exists, correct?
How do you define mass?

>>39504566
>>39504609
You can't use logic to prove the existence of a being whose existence you claim doesn't have to make sense. It's just sophistry.

>>39504702
I seriously cannot take people like you seriously.
Words have fuzzy definitions that are designed to convey meaning. Our brains coalesce that ideal meaning into an actuality that we can perceive.
That is why one cannot define what a slice of bread is, but one can determine whether something is a slice of bread or a loaf or not bread at all.
I refuse to go down the definitions rabbit hole.
Stop shifting the goal posts or stop trolling.

>>39504780
>I refuse to define the words I use
You and every other member of your insane religion of mathematics.

Maybe... Just maybe... We don't know everything about the universe, and therefore taking one of the millions of possibile reasons for its creation as an absolute truth is illogical?
Nice bait though.

>>39504748
You clearly don't know what sophistry is. Throwing buzzwords isn't how you debate.

>>39504748
I was just arguing that their question is nonsensical and has no truth value.
Just like how "This statement is false" has no 'answer' (e.g. It is false) because it is nonsensical.
It's not even worth arguing about.
It just shows their lack of understanding about what they are arguing.

>>39504819
No, in truth if you don't want to believe in God it's simply because it would question your whole life, notably because you're not doing any good.
But yeah, keep closing your eyes and pretend it's just a bait.

>>39504813
I'm sorry that you have absolutely no perception of what mass is that you need it to be defined for you. You clearly haven't even passed high school that you can't confirm whether mass exist.
Try this definition http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/matter
The amount of mass is clearly decreasing and is observed to be decreasing (e.g. Because of nuclear fusion).

My question is why do you believe a pulped and edited book on what sort of god you should believe in when there are versions of the Bible where god fights frost giants.

>>39496307
Yes, and the million girl's I've fucked that are completely unable to be detected by anyone else because they're all angels also exist. I am in reality the world's largest Chad and cannot prove it.
An absence of proof for one thing doesn't make another thing that could have proof but doesn't have any verifiable evidence any more true.
Also I am the hacker Reddit.

>>39504893
Why would God want you to do good? How could good want anything? If God is limitless he cannot want, think or feel. All these are limited and caused phenomenons.

>>39504914
All you have to do is define mass, but you can't. Untill you do, there is no use talking about it.

>>39504959
I literally just defined mass as this http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/matter
"Matter is a substance that has inertia and occupies physical space."

>>39504942
Because everything has a purpose in life. "Nature abhors a vacuum." right?
You know if you just replace "Nature" by "God" everything would make sense.
Want, think or feel are what made us humans, it's the most advanced technology inside us. If anything, God perfected it in Himself, it's not a weakness.

>>39505022
I accept your definition. Now you need just define exist.

>>39504959
>>39505022
The reason why I initially refused to define it was because your next question would be to define inertia. If you don't have a basic understanding of simple words in the vernacular you clearly should leave.
Either that or you are trying to shift the goalposts and avoid my argument.
Now, does mass exist?
http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/mass-m

>>39504566
Asking who created the universe or what existed before it is nonsensical.
The universe is all of existence, all of time, there is nothing outside of it or before it. The rules of causality don't apply before time.

>>39496307
>tfw may have been castrated
>tfw did not do anything sexual with best girls I've come across

Well at least I tasted some decent food!

>>39505064
That is literally the problem with you cunts. You ask me to define every single word in my sentence as a method to avoid confrontation.
Merriam Webster defines existing as "to have real being".

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>>39496307

I see you have a hard-on for strawmen arguments.

>God exists outside of science
That's basically saying "I don't have to use logic, I am right no matter what. I don't have to play by the rules"

>Who made god is not an argument
It is, you retard. It's either:
1. God has a creator, and he must have a creator, and so on. Infinite loop
2. God existed forever, which fails as an argument as you could say the universe/singularity have existed since forever too.
3. God is the reason for the existence of god, which doesn't work because god has to exist in order for god to be the reason for the existence of god.

Funny how you say that it's illogical that the universe came from nothing and you believe in god, an option that would require god to come out of nothing as well. So it's either the universe came from nothing or god came from noting and created the universe.

I'm not even an atheist, I don't give a fuck about god but I resent stupid people like yourself who can't use logic for shit.

>>39504893
I questioned my whole life when I did believe. Belief made no sense, and my world broke when I realized not believing was an option that I was on the road to taking.

>>39505027
>everything has a purpose
I don't think so. Everything has an effect, and you can call it a purpose if you're feeling poetic.
>God perfected it in Himself
If God can think then he is not limitless.

https://youtu.be/G3i6UwVkP6M
>how will christcucks ever recover?

>>39505148
Define thinking

>>39505027
If you define god as nature then sure it exists, but I ain't calling it god or personifying it or worshiping it.

>>39505122
So you question then translates to this:
Does a substance that has inertia and occupies physical space have real being.
To which I answer, no. It's an abstract concept invented by you.

>>39496307
The only alternative is that nobody can even reflect on this matter. This is basically the most perfectly begged question. I'm not even an atheist but this kind of argument really bends me out of joint.

The universe didn't come from nothing, it came from a singularity.

>>39505156
Awareness of an idea.

>>39505127
>the universe/singularity (which is just a term used to placate our lack of understanding) always existed and suddenly burst forth from that state into our current universe without cause, defying everything known and rigorously tested about our universe.
One and three are reasonable arguments, but God is atemporal and exists outside of time, as time is relegated to our universe.
Read my other post>>39504566

>>39497419
Except not kill everyone for some arbitrary reason

>>39505166
So my hand, which I observe to be actually real and have inertia, in fact doesn't exist?

>>39496307
Look up electron positron annihilation. It's a particle accelerator experiment that's been repeated thousands of times and it proves that matter can be created from nothing.

>>39505184
The universe was a singularity. It's not like the singularity was a separate existence.

>>39505244
Would you please read my post up there?>>39504649

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>>39496307
>The Universe can't have existed forever
>But God can because he's MAGIC and I said so

>>39505240
If you have a hand then it exists. It's not what you defined as matter though.
A substance which has inertia(abstract concept) and occupies space(nothing).

>>39505284
My hand clearly has inertia. It is resistant to change in movement as evidenced by my laziness.
When it is in rest (i.e. Not moving relative to the ground), it takes work (processing glucose in my blood) to initiate movement relative to the ground.

>>39505338
You're rambling. Your hand is not your hand if it isn't moving?

>>39505370
No, you aren't understanding me.
It has inertia because it is resistant to acceleration.

>>39505397
That depends on how fast you accelerate I would imagine. What the hell does that have to do with your hand being real?

>>39505424
My hand exists and I observe it to have inertia and volume.
Therefore it has mass. To deny its mass-ness is to deny its real-ness or the reality of my observation.
By denying the existence of objective reality you have a priori ruled out the existence of God.
We are just wasting each other's time.

>>39505482
Again you are rambling. Your hand exists, you observe its shape and the relative stability of that shape. Then you invent concepts, inertia and volume, and tell me these concepts exists, when they are really just abstractions.

>>39496307
>How can matter have always existed?
I don't know. It's okay to say that, right? It's okay to not know, and to not pretend to know?

>>39505204

If god exists because he is atemporal, than everything I'll made up and say is atemporal cannot be questioned either. God is atemporal in our minds. Saying god exists because he is atemporal is like debating who would win in a fight, spiderman or superman. It is pointless, as these characters are imaginary.

The argument you're using is part of "The Ontological argument" and is easily one of the weakest arguments for the existence of god. Here are more arguments about how this shit is so false:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontological_argument#Criticisms_and_objections

>>39505482
Anon, please stop responding to schroedingers retard, you aren't getting anywhere and if your point hasnt been conveyed to them yet it won't be, they're arguing semantics rather than an actual debate
>sage

>>39505605
Typical cult like behavior, as to be expected from followers of mathemathics.

>>39505563
The idea of a hand is an abstraction. The only thing I truly see are arrays of colors within different shapes that I arrange to see as a hand.
My hand is clearly not real, just how the letters on the screen aren't real. Just pixels of colors arranged in a perceived pattern.
My brain is just hard wired to synthesize it into concrete things.

This is the extent your argument can be taken.

>>39505594
God does not exist because he is atemporal.
If He exists, He is atemporal. You cannot rule out God because of his lack of temporality.
The universe is bounded by time, by cause and affect. The cause of it would have to be outside of time (i.e. Perpetually in existence)

God exists no matter what, even if he isn't real
God exists in the understanding, the debate should be whether he exists in the physical world

>>39505718

But as I stated, god isn't atemporal until you prove he exists.
"Cause of it would have to be outside time" is again, saying "I don't have to use logic". If that's what you base your argument on, I cannot follow. Either play by the rules or don't play at all.
You're basically just saying "god doesn't have to make sense".

>>39505648
The idea of a hand is an abstraction, but your hand isn't. Inertia and volume are only ideas. They are proposed proporties of an object, they aren't objects.

>>39505774
Ignostics would claim there is no clear consistent definition of god.

>>39505791
If you read my original post, you would understand my point.
The universe (which is bound by rules that maintain continuity like time) should not be given special circumstances for the continuity of its rules to be broken 1 second after the Big Bang just because it's after the Big Bang. The time scale of 1 second or however long it took for the universe to get going is arbitrary and makes little sense to exist unless you believe in the nonsense of hidden variables.
If the universe always existed as a singularity, what cause would it have to break that pattern and develop into the universe as we know it.
Either something unconstrained by universal laws must have changed it, or you are denying the well supported fact that the universe had a beginning and will continue to expand.

>>39505799
There is no way to show my hand exists. My hand is an abstraction of the individual photons (which are also an abstraction) that hit my retina (another one) which my consciousness, the only thing that exists, coalesces it into the idea of "my hand". Just like how my consciousness forms the meaningless pixels on the screen into words that convey meaning which doesn't exist.

>>39505899
>Either something unconstrained by universal laws must have changed it, or you are denying the well supported fact that the universe had a beginning and will continue to expand.
This complete gibberish is what modern mathematical "physics" have led to.
You people are so painfully ignorant of the basic definitions of word, like for instance, Universe which isn't some limited space, but means everything that is. You can't have something not included in this by its very definition.

>>39505943
You don't have to show anything. Existence is not dependent on something being shown. Your hand is an object with a specific location relative to all other objects. Therefore it exists.

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>>39496307
If god can exist outside of any time or science who's to say the universe couldn't? Why do we need god to be the answer?

>>39496307
talking about religion is a waste of time, as living beings it is impossible to find out for sure, the truth could be completely beyond our comprehension, just let people believe what they want and only discuss religion if everyone wants to hear it, atheist, Christian or whatever you are, don't shove it down anothers throat, keep ot civil

My favorite Bible story is the one where God got into a wrestling match with a random guy and had to cheat by pulling his hip out of it's socket and then he still lost

>>39496500
>implying the holy trinity isn't a thing

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>>39497032
Why SHOULD you care? What ARE you even? What are you made of? Does that stuff care? What does your caring about the existence of God mean in the face of everything?

Realistically, whether or not there's a man in the sky, religion gives us all something to see the world around us through. It's like an abstraction of all of the observable forces in nature as a "plan" for everybody's life. Outside of the ends justifying the means, the doctrines are arbitrary.

>>39497090
Space wolves vs iron hands

>>39505983
No it does not exist.
I have no way to show that my hand is in a state of "real being" just like the words on a computer.
This could be a simulation of life where nothing is actually real and it's all just electric impulses arranged in a pattern.
My hand is not real, and neither are you.
But from your perspective, I am not real and you are the real one.
If you cannot agree that a train doesn't like to stop instantly relative to the ground (inertia) or that there is an area that my hand stops other objects from going into (volume), then clearly every action is an abstraction. Running doesn't exist, typing doesn't exist, and neither does existing.
Everything is just an abstraction of raw sensitory input which your consciousness puts together. The only thing in actual existence is the machine extrapolating patterns and meaning from all of this, i.e. the self.
Cogito ergo sum.

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>>39496307
Can you DISPROVE it just came out of nowhere though? I'd really like to see you try.