>work harder than any millionaire >get paid 200 bucks >capitalist

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its the top percentage managing the system, they're responsible for overseeing the entire operation allowing you to work. i dont see the issue

>work harder than any millionaire
So why haven't you invented the next MySpace? Where's your new operating system? Have you decided to find a cure for a cancer yet? What's your latest findings on the development of the Pearl River Delta in China?

>>39141550
Then get a better paying job you fucking retard.

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>>39141550
>works harder than any millionaire
>serves people fast food
BACK TO LEFTY POL YOU FUGGIN GOMMIE

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>>39141590
I work for my dad's firnd business nad he's not a millaionaire
>dude I work at mcdonalds so everybody else does

>>39141634
That shit is pussy shit, can you show me the scars and blisters you got from making your faggot OS? Oh you didn't get any but still think that's working hard????
Fucking pussy college cuck privilege little bitch, I could kill you with my bare hands.

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>>39141550
>people still believe in communism

>implying you work hard

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>>39141550
commie scum pls go away

>>39141680
>People still believe in capitalism

>>39141675
Do you have a micropenis?
>captcha: select all images with helicopter
Well I guess it's settled.

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>>39141675
>pussy college cuck

hurr durr hammur stronk

>>39141666
>>39141680
>>39141687
I work hard because I'm a fascist, I work for my people, I work harder than any of you and get paid less but it's okay. I just don't think some faggot kike with a millionaire dad deserves anything.

>>39141590
>if the upper class disappeared people wouldn't know what to do and society would collapse
the landlord who owns the factory contributes nothing to production. without him the workers would ostensibly be better off seeing as they could do with their product what would benefit them most

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>>39141707
typical capitalist cuck comes up with an ad hominem before an argument. That's this whole thread a bunch of capitalist cucks defending schlomo shekelburg inheriting what you won't see in an entire life of hard honest work.

>>39141713
Fair enough

But why are you getting so angry that your poor education forced you to get a low paying job

>>39141753
education means nothing. Some college cuck rich daddi piece of shit goes to learn about feminist studies and faggot shit and all of a sudden he's better than you right?

>>39141550
>work harder than any millionaire
>get paid foodstamps

commicucks will defend this

>>39141751
I work in a factory with pretty much illegal working conditions, I don't hate the higher ups who don't get exposed to the same shit that we do, because if they weren't managing all the overhead we couldn't get anything done.

Fascism was about class cooperation, not hating the rich, you fucking false flagging commie.

>>39141798
So the fact I have a degree in Maths and Economics means I don't deserve 6k a month? What's the point of me studying that subject if there's no reward for it
After all, what's physically stopping you from studying the same field and earning the same?

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>>39141550
Communism is just as bad as capitalism, as in communism, people who don't work at all still get paid the same as someone who works very hard. It doesn't take a genius to figure this out, so less people will work hard for their country. Less workers means less profits, and the country gets poorer. This is why so many communist nations are poor.

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>>39141829
>math >economics
the world can do without you, workers create profit not your retarded overpaid nothing job that creates nothing, creates no money you just had enough of gibs me dats toi do that faggot shit, instead of working hard and creating profit you wasted 4 years getting taught by more nobody worthless busy body overhead cucks.

That's why Jews love Mexicans. They're willing to work for $10/he while working 100 hr work weeks with no ot

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>>39141858
A truly better system would have the amount of money people earn be proportional to the amount of work they do, or how much it contributes to society. This would have more people working, and thus have more profit. Because of this, the country would become rich and prosperous.

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>>39141550
How much value do you create for your volk?

Probably much less than the millionaires that you're jealous of.

>>39141858
people who don't work at all get sent to gulag. sometimes even people who show up 5 minutes late get sent to gulag.

>>39141892
Why are you unable to answer my question?

>>39141913
millionaires don't create anything

>>39141921
The point is that >>39141909 shows a system like that, but without human deaths.
More people = more money made
More money made = wealthier country

>>39141810
Just kill those losers and do your own job. If you don't they'll outsource, automate your job and years and years of back breaking labour won't mean anything. Thanks cappiecucks

>The little wageroach thinks that hard work = personal worth

Hard work is something that an animal who gets paid NOTHING is able to do more of than you. Personal worth is about knowledge, wits and connections. Anything else, you can just hire someone like OP for.

>>39141550
You're assuming that things (such as labor) have intrinsic value. They don't. Its worth only what someone is willing to pay for it. If you don't like it, find someone willing to pay you more.

Anyone can work at McDicks and do basic, unskilled labor.
Very few people have the Foresight necessary to invent Facebook.

>>39141550
How can you explain why there hasn't been a successful communist/socialist country yet?

>>39141550
Is this board the new place for /pol/ shitposting?

>>39141978
>connections
thanks cappiecucks that was my point, knowing somebody means more than any amount of hard work you do. Some loser is going to get promoted before you no matter how hard you work just because of his connections, fair right? That really encourages people to work
>dude why are there so much neets when wage cucking gets you nothing but an early grave froim stress and injuries

A million workers create and do more for society than a million millionaire limp wristed losers like fucking drumpf, god that fat faggot has such a fat bitch body, he looks like rosie o'donell

>Be OP
>Can't explain why I can't study a math based subject
>Don't respond to anything else
>Complain about no wealth but justify it because of blind Nationalism
Don't forget to kill yourself OP

>>39141975
No they won't you ignorant faggot. The things we manufacture cannot be made anywhere else (they tried) and it's actually cost ineffective and it lowers quality to automate, our quality is the only reason we haven't been outsourced, and that's only the one department I work in, which produces the finished goods, the rest of the plant is unique in that it's the only fucking place in the world that has the equipment to make what it makes.

Fucking communist brainlets.

>>39141550
Thats because u gotta work smarter not harder :^)

>work harder than any welfare fag
>all my money gets stolen and give to people who don't want to work and they still starve to death like me
>communist cucks will defend this

>>39142085
>nationalism
kek
A nationalist values his people, even if they are richer than him. He's just pretending he is a fascist because he got called out for being the fedora tipping commie he is.

>>39141550
Agreed OP. Proletariat revolution when? We must sieze the means of production

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>>39142085
>he thinks stem cucks are valued in anyway
Dude just spend money to learn an over saturated field
>when raj from india will do your job for a quarter the price

>>39142091
sounds like college cuck job fucking daddi boy limpwristed loser.

My superior nat soc hands and muscles would kill any privileged cappiecuck in this thread

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>dude those millionaires that do nothing but throw around money they didn't earn are so much better for society than you

Fuck I hate cappiecucks so bad

>>39142075
Alright, connections can be a free pass to greatness for shitty people, but they're also fucking important in lower level business and society. I need a guy to hook me up with a bunch of potential suppliers and go meet them and do the contracts, who do I hire? The hard-working social recluse with zero connections, or the outgoing yuppie fuck who's friendly with half the industry? I think you know who's getting hired here. Whether you're born with them, or you make them, connections increase your worth dramatically.

>>39142159
then Raj is better. Either do better than him or accept less pay (would still be more than your retarded option)
Anyway cant wait when they'll add death penalty for nazism

>>39142159
>nat soc
topkek

Remember Knight of the Long Knives? Hitler literally purged socialist vermin like you.

cappiecucks on suicide watch

deep down they know it's all a sick joke.

>>39141550
>Majority of millionaires and billionaires in the US are self made rather than inheritance.
>On average they work about 90 hour work weeks to get to that point for years. Average 2-3 hours of sleep a day.
>Original poster thinks he works harder.

Go do that for about 15 years straight. If you aren't a millionaire by that point then I will believe the system is unfair.

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>>39142280
>get btfo
>n-no u

>>39142354
cappiecucks haven't even provided an argument. It's just dude people with more money do more for your country than a single worker slave.

If I had a million bucks I wouldn't try to destroy my nation from within like your cappie jew overlords. Get it yet cappiecucks?

>>39142280
And yet we still haven't been presented a better alternative to capitalism.
And if you actually think communism or socialism is better, you're clearly a fucking retard who knows nothing.

>>39142411
you're assuming that nations are anything more than arbitrary lines on a map

>>39141590
"allowing you to work"

Spoken like a cuck.

Nigger they're just jobs. everyone needs someone to work for them.

There's always a rich faggot somewhere who doesn't want to get his hands dirty.

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>>39142479
oh a brainlet cappiecucks who thinks nation means borders/country.
Do you live in america or Europe? No wonder you are so anti-nationalist

I would rather work for my people in my nation who live with me than a kike who will just send it all to Israel, like you would prefer.

most people who are upper middle class are in their mid 40s and 50s, they've been working hard for literally decades

>>39141590
> They're responsible for overseeing the entire operation allowing you to work
So they're useless.

>>39142520
and they still don't have a million dollars to burn like your cappiecucks senator's son. Get it yet cappiecucks? It ain't me, it ain't you, we aren't no senator's son.

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Spook levels above average ITT

>>39142516
"your people" and "your nation" are just "whoever happened to be in this general area at one time". You're just as retarded as normies who get worked up over sports rivalries.

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>spoiled rich kids pouring out 30 thousand dollar champagne for a vine meme
>cappiecucks will defend this

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>>39142573
yeah no shit. I would rather people I live with and interact with be successful than some kike son in Israel. GET IT YET CAPPIEKEKS?!?!?!?!?!

>>39142591
You're still assuming that those people and that place is fixed. You can go literally anywhere in the world anon. Why would you owe someone anything just because they happened to be born near where you were?

>>39142572
Based Stirner poster. Do you have the "whack a spook" pic?

>>39142625
>dude you can go anywhere
>you just need to learn the language
>get connections there to get a job
>spend thousands on travel-
that's it cappiecucks are so fucking stupid it hurts like holy fuck why can't cappiecuckls think. JUST THINK YOU ANIMAL HOLY FUCK

>>39141550
Does anybody have the gif of her walking away, but without the background?

>>39142654
>people can't move
>people can't learn a new language
>NOOO I'm irreversibly bound to this place! I must stay within these lines and serve these people! Its MY NATION!
Only person stopping you is you.

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>>39142638
shit quality sorry
>>39142654
No real need for connections. Accordingly one can travel effectively for free.
But yeah, languagelets need not apply

>>39142696
>dude just spend years of your life learning a dead language and making money for travel for a job opportunity then deal with the hand you were dealt
Typical spoiled cappiecucks response. See the only cappiecucks are spoiled rich dadi's kids or braindead retards who can't understand that better systems exist for them. Why are cappicucks so against there interest?

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>>39142572
>>39142705
fuck you stirnertards are so ignorant
>no arguments
>just muh ideology spook buzzword
>while believing in ideology

typical cappiekike ignorant

>>39141590
They are completely useless. I realized this as a poor minimum wage employee. The fast food restaurant I work at is run by workers supervisors managers and regional managers the owners do literally nothing except collect the profits generated by the labour of their employees

>>39142752
The better system is one where people aren't bound to the fate of the place where they were born, where they can lead their own lives instead of being shackled to those who happened to be born around them. This is why nationalism needs to be taken out back and shot dead once and for all. It's contrary to human rights and dignity. Nobody owes allegiance to a state.

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People reduce their lifespans by years managing huge companies, their hair turns grey like the president in some cases. They also invest wisely in the stock market and bonds as an independent source of cash, I bet you could turn that 200 dollars into 210-220 easily, yet you don't, why?

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>>39142842
cappiecucks are bound by fate. Born to poor family? Too fucking bad you are born to suffer. Born too rich family? Here's your million dollars you never worked for.

>Efficiency gets to the point where we can feed, house, and clothe everybody by having robots create these things automatically
>We don't

Really butters my egg roll

>>39142778
read the ego and its own. it has any argument youd want

>>39142865
>dude the million dollars you didn't work for just made you another million dollars!!
Wow investing is like so hard amirite

>>39142865
What about those who actually own the majority of shares of those companies. They do literally nothing

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>>39141550
>work harder than any millionaire
>works in fast food
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8XIiCH3L_I
my fucking sides

>>39142842
Except you do, it provides for your common defense and welfare, you have a duty (via the social contract) to help the state, just as it helps you.

>>39142880
of course you just prescribe diatribe to read like any other ideological cuck. fucking stirnertard hypocrite waste of skin

>>39142226
No one is saying that they are better than you. They have more money that's it.

Sorry bud life isn't fair. Get over it.

>>39142897
>you need a nation state to defend you against those other nation states!
This an an argument for why nation states are a problem, not an argument for why they're good.

>>39142927
exactly life isn't fair that is my point, why are cappiecucks so belligerent to prove me wrong??

>>39142891
Yeah, those guys do shitall, but at least they contribute to society a bit. I was talking about upper management in companies.
>>39142887
>You have to be rich to invest
Who taught people this lie?

>>39142896
A fast food worker works much harder than a millionaire who lives on investments

>>39141550
>work harder than any millionaire
No you don't

>>39142940
Okay so what do you want? Life to be fair? Who decides what's fair?

>>39142932
You need a state to protect you against other individuals who break the social contract.

>>39142941
The guy I responded to is the guy who said hair turns grey investing bullshit, not the people who spend 40 years of their life breaking their back lmao

>>39142941
you have to be rich to live on investments. How do they contribute to society, doing nothing and consume a massive amount of resources

>>39142948
"Working hard" doesn't imply "deserves more money". I could work very hard digging a ditch in the middle of nowhere, but why would I be entitled to any money if nobody wanted that ditch dug?

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>>39142955
It will be fair when a union of nationalist workers destroy the system designed to imprison them. Honestly why is it so hard for cappiecucks to think?

>>39142996
Okay so what happens when everyone starves? Who decides who eats who? Like a union lottery?

>>39142996
Nations and governments are the prison, anon. You think you're calling for something that will set you free, but you aren't, you're calling for your jailer.

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>>39142955
>Who decides what's fair?
The gentle laborer. We shall rise up and sieze the means of production soon (tm)

>>39141829
>what's physically stopping you from studying the same field and earning the same?
How would he get the student loans to allow him to take time off work and go to school to get those degrees? Also the risk of not being able to find a job; you have to be in the right place at the right time and/or know the right people.
I went to college for 5 years and got a master's degree with only 12 other people graduating with me. It took me 5 months to find a job and I get paid as much as a construction worker who just graduated from high school.

>>39142985
Yeah, but why not supplement your income? You complain that you don't make enough money, but don't take whatever measures you can to make more. The stock market is a good way to supplement any income. The fat cats invest money, exactly how it sounds. Whoever is the next Elon Musk is getting start up money from these evil fat pigs.

>>39141899
Except that is illegal anywhere in the US, nice try.

Most cappiecucks will defend Lukas Walton who has never worked being worth 21 billion because his grandfather founded walmart

>>39142970
I was that guy, people in upper management have it tough, man.

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>>39143025
>people who produce food
>Starving
DUDE WITHOUT SCHLOMO THINKING FOR ME SOCIETY WOULD COLLAPSE FARMERS NEED SCHLOMO TO WORK NOBODY WOULD PAY THEM FOR FOOD WITHOUT CAPPIEKEKUNISM
fucking think I, SAID THINK YOU CAPPIE KEK IDIOT

>>39143027
Okay so what happens when that doesn't work? Who makes the decisions for the place that I have just seized? The janitor? What does he know how not to run into the ground? Do we need some sort of management staff to oversee the place? Oh wait so what's different again? We just automate everything? If that's possible why wouldn't already be done? It would be probabbly be more profitable, so companies would be doing that now right? Or is just commie magic?

>>39143051
implying the stockmarket isn't massively rigged against small time investors who have no inside information

>>39143027
>might makes right, we'll take control and then we'll decide how things ought to be run!
You're just the same as the people you aim to replace.

The point of capitalism isn't to be fair. Fairness isn't a desirable goal. There can be no equality of condition without theft and coercion. The purpose of capitalism is to extend to everyone the maximum degree of liberty that is possible in an organized state. It so happens that capitalism also provides the greatest potential and opportunity for the creation of wealth. You may not be happy with your material condition, but at least you are free to attempt to change your condition whenever you'd like and in most any way you can imagine.

>>39142948
It takes mentality to become a millionaire.
Physically you're a slave

>>39143090
So the only different is we get rid of Jews and like the free market handle the rest? Okay sounds good.

Do we kill the Jews or export them?

>>39143101
> Your enemies win if you kill them! You're just like them!
Canada is that you?

>>39143099
It's rigged against you if you try to day-trade. It's rigged in your favor if you buy and hold.

>>39143099
I'm sure you can get some sources saying that this is true?

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>>39143105
>>39143105
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lukas_Walton
>only smart deserving people becom ric-
Fucking cappiecuck holy fuck think you retard fucking think
Round up every capitalist cuck and the iq might be 3 digits

>>39142995
but an investor does nothing productive, investing is not a productive activity/

>>39143155
Matters not in the slightest. Get that labor theory of value nonsense out of your head.

>>39143144
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/stocks/10/stock-market-rigged.asp
http://nypost.com/2015/03/25/us-stock-market-is-just-way-too-riggin-easy/
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-question-isnt-whether-the-market-is-rigged-but-how-much-2016-07-19

>>39143155
Except it is, it allows companies that were invested in to do more, and grow more, producing more wealth. Literally how is that a bad thing?

>>39142910
but you were not arguing to begun with. You just saw a stirner poser and said >>39142778
whats wrong? do you not like stirnirs dark philosophys so much that you insta condemn all stirnir related things?

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>tesla died in poverty
>only smart deserving people become ric-

>>39143174
implying capital can be generated from thin air

>>39143155
Investing is an extraordinarily productive activity. It funds capital development. Investors do not make money out of thin air, they receive a return on an initial investment that they make. That return is generated by their initial investment funding some productive activity.

In the long run it is impossible for an economy to grow without sustained investment.

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>>39143206
>le dark philosophy
It doesn't get any edgier than nationalism you child

>>39143094
>Okay so what happens when that doesn't work?
Barbarism. Once Capitalism fails there's two options, communism or barbarism. It's one or the other, or a return to capitalism after a while
>Who makes the decisions for the place that I have just seized?
In marxism it's directly democratic, the people decide. In Leninism the state party decides.
>Do we need some sort of management staff to oversee the place?
Probably, but they don't own the place and aren't the boss.
>We just automate everything?
Not possible

You don't get paid for how hard work, you can paid based on how much value you contribute. Otherwise digging ditches and filling them in all day would pay 6 figures. While contributing absolutely nothing of value.

>>39143216
You're trying to insert morals or karma or other such concepts where there are none.

Dont worry capitalism will eventually die just like every other system

>>39143228
they invest in companies and make money from the productive labour of the workers of those companies

>>39143244
>Probably, but they don't own the place and aren't the boss

So what's the risk exactly for these company overseers? What do the lose when the place falls due to mismanagement of company resources? Gulage?

>>39143283
Yes, and? Capital and labor are both necessary inputs. Both make a return. What is your point?

>>39143234
nationa- you mean the pic with stirnir saying nationalism is a spook? I'm not a nationalist.

you are the ignorant one slapping le hat meme buzzwords on everything.

you were not even arguing with him and said he had no arguements what the fuck? Do you know anything about stirnir or nihilism?

>inb4"YOU MEAN LE RICK AND MORTY NIHILSIMS OMG THATS YOU RIGHT NOW"

>>39143197
>The stock market is technically not rigged for the average investor. Laws and governing bodies such as the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) exist to "level the playing field" for everyday investors. However, there are undeniable advantages money managers on Wall Street have over us: timely access to privileged information, huge amounts of capital, political influence and greater experience. Although intimidating, these apparent disadvantages should not dissuade you from reaching your investment goals

They said it shouldn't dissaude you, so make the plunge, man. Supplement your income.

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>>39143274
>>39143274
I'm just saying in a society based on merit tesla would actually have gotten recognition and riches not that faggot cappiecuck faker who didn't invent dick, edison.
You just insert inverted morals and think that makes you correct

>>39143318
I'm afraid I'll lose all of my already meager income of I invest in stock market desu

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>>39142953
>oh wow I sit on my desk and computer and make another million dollars I like le work soooooooooo hard even though I didn't break a sweat

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>>39141550

>dad went to school for 8+ years, multiple masters in engineering degrees
>works 10+ hours a day 5 days a week
>frugal
>has multi-millions

it's always funny to me when poor people complain about rich people

you're either really smart and lucky, or hard working
you're probably neither and have trouble maintaining a minimum wage job, never been to school etc

>>39143371
How much income do you make, if I might ask? And how much of that is left over after food and rent?

>>39143337
Edison wasn't as bad as Teslafags always make out. Tesla was a huge autist and brought most of his misfortune on himself in that way. Edison was a very driven and socially savvy guy, but he was also an inventor and had the heart of a scientist. Edison did good things.

>>39143337
There's no objective standard of merit though.

>>39143395
11.25 an hour and maybe 100 or 200 a month I have very simple tastes and never eat out, do drugs, buy new or designer clothes

>>39143371
Then don't invest all of it, just use the money left over after expenses, or if you are already spending everything/not enough startup cash just try and cut back on other things. Research what companies would be a good fit, watch those companies, and learn a bit of economics on the way.

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>>39143284
>So what's the risk exactly for these company overseers?
There is no conpany. Companies are a capitalist invention. In communism, you are rewarded with necessities after you finish work. Those who do not work receive nothing. Those who are incompetent are moved to a different branch and are replaced. Gulags were used only in very extreme cases, such as when kulaks began to destroy their own crops and livestock. If you're truly interested in communism/Marxism beyond just memes, read The Principles of Communism. It's a short read published in the 1800's detailing the bare bones of the ideology and how it works
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm

>>39143417
Save up for a bit and buy a broad-market index fund with low expenses. Don't try to beat or time the market. Wall Street will encourage you to, since that's how you lose money and they make money. Buy and hold.

>>39143433
I know very little about what companies are profitable maybe I will invest a very small amount in some cannabis stocks since my guess is they will go up when my country legalizes

>>39143445
>In communism, you are rewarded with necessities after you finish work. Those who do not work receive nothing.
So it's basically slavery by a different name then?

>>39143417
If you want to invest in the stock market with that level of income the important thing to realize is that you'd be playing a long game. Don't try to day trade or analyze and pick individual stocks. Take about a quarter of your remaining income, maybe $50 per month and put it into an index fund that tracks the S&P 500. You can talk to your banker about this and set up a tax deferred account that does this. You will be fully exposed to stock market fluctuations, so if the market crashes and loses 25% you will lose 25% of your investment. However, over the last few centuries the US stock market has always been a good investment in the long run and there is no reason to suspect that that won't continue to be the case. If you do this then over the course of years you can expect to make a return between 5% - 8%. That won't ever make you a millionaire, but it will be something that you'll appreciate a decade from now.

>op here
>nobody even tries to debate the higher level and obviously correct arguments
>only attack low hanging fruit
>can barely manage that
>think they are correct
cappiecucks
kek

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>>39143452
Listen to this guy, he knows what's up.

Finance original

>>39143445
>In communism, you are rewarded with necessities after you finish work. Those who do not work receive nothing.

I would prefer to just receive money after I finish work and use it to buy what I'd like, not what someone else deems necessary for me.

>>39143483
Care to respond to my point here?
>>39143103

>>39143469
In capitalism you're rewarded with money, usually less money than you deserve. In a capitalist society you're entirely limited by how much you can afford. This is not the same in communism. Again, if you're truly seeking answers, you don't have to take my word for it, the information is out there readily available.

>>39143483
You're higher level points of "I work harder than upper management who are responsible for thousands of workers?"

>>39143573
>In a capitalist society you're entirely limited by how much you can afford
I'd rather be limited by that, than by what the politburo dictates. There's a chance that one day I'll make more money and I'm free to pursue that objective most any way I see fit. There's no chance whatsoever that I can gain more opportunities in the future under a communist society, unless it is through corruption or crime.

>People have fallen for the propaganda campaign against communism
Isn't it funny how (((they))) try to argue against your self interstest for everything except communism, this just happens to be the one thing (((they))) tell you is bad and is actually bad.
Who controls the media and american government? The media and government is the one who created this "communism is bad" meme in the first place.

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>>39143573
Capitalism: I'll give you this amount of money to do this job, because that's what I think you deserve for it. If you don't like that, convince me you're worth more, or go find someone else to work for.

Communism: I'll give you this amount of resources to do this job, because that's what I think you deserve for it. If you don't like it, you starve. No bargaining here!

>>39143632
Care to show me the example of this working that the media is hiding from me?

>>39141858
Free market fails. Communism is for cucks. Mixed system when.

>>39142254
I don't think you understand how it works. Companies will cut costs and get what they pay for because the consumer is the one that foots the consequences of having inept employees. This is the one of the same principles that led to the need for minimum wage to begin with.

>>39143622
>There's a chance that one day I'll make more money and I'm free to pursue that objective most any way I see fit.
And what of those who don't make more money? Who live their lives in poverty? You can say whatever you like, but capitalism is setup in a way that there MUST be people at the very bottom. It's not surprising that those who aren't at the bottom aren't open to the idea. The reason revolution took place in Russia was because of how many people were in poverty and how huge the gap was between the poor and the well off. It's completely understandable why the average worker today may feel communism is unnecessary, but it's also short sighted and selfish. Anyway I don't expect a revolution in my life time, not that I can see anyway. But it is inevitable in many places around the world

>>39143662
>Communism doesn't work as well as capitalism who refuses to coopoerate with communist countries and the capitalist countries benefit from NOT capitalism at all but protectionism and imperialism. Capitalism wouldn't be where it is today with the subjugation of the Americas and Africa.

Tell me how capitalism works when there are literally several continents with vested interests due to unequal wealth distribution interested in seeing you fail. Capitalism wouldn't work either if there was a communist hegemony that does everything in it's power to make it fail.

You can't make everyone a million for working at McDonald's, people should have to actually do something for money

>Work smarter
>Not harder
>???
>profit

>>39143751
>I don't expect a revolution in my life time
Considering what ANTIFA keeps getting away with...

Also don't forget how the wealthy actively attempt to keep the working class from gaining any sort of power, whether it's because of preserving your lineage or pure and simple greed.

>>39143622
>There's a chance that one day I'll make more money
And here we see the crux if the capitalcucks belief system.
Literally
>some day I'll own that boot!

>>39143773
People on r9k live in comfy first world neoliberal countries. They aren't exposed to how capitalism is fucking over the world so to them it's working fine. You can't convince NEETs that don't even work that the system is fsiling, they're entirely removed from it

>>39143851
It's fucking people over in America too. Unless you can agree that a fuckton of America's system is third-world-tier compared to Europe. T-the free market will f-fix it...

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>>39141675
>i could kill you with my bare hands
good thing i can afford a gun <:^)

>>39141550
Cleaning toilets 24/7 is not the equivalent of what a ceo does. Socialism has its merits but you're beyond delusional and insufferable

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>>39141550
only good gommie is a bread gommie

>>39143751
There is no mode of societal organization that will result in utopia. I'm sorry, but perfection is simply not for this world. When we look at the options that have been employed historically and which are advocated for today the free market offers two main advantages that no objective person could deny.

1. It has created the best outcome for the greatest number of people. Capitalism has produced an extraordinary expansion in health, happiness, longevity, and educational access. That expansion is unparalleled in human history. I will be glad to expand on that point in great detail both in terms of evidence and theory if you'd like. Every society that has tried to leave free market organization has seen a return to the dire living standards of most of human existence. If your concern is truly human welfare then free market capitalism is objectively your best option.

2. It maximizes liberty to the greatest extent possible. In no other mode of societal organization are people left with anywhere near as much say in their ultimate fates. That is in and of itself desirable. It also helps to maximize human happiness. No one knows better than I do what I want.

With regard to the plight of the poor, nothing about addressing poverty is antithetic to capitalism. In a free society we are all able to dedicate our time and our money to charity. That is only true in a free society. It is also not incompatible with market capitalism for a wealthy country to use tax dollars to design a social safety net, so long as that system is designed in such a way not to limit competition or market forces. What is the alternative system that you imagine serves the low skilled workers of the world better?

>>39143816
I am actually very happy with how much money I make right now.

Would you care to address the underlying point that I made or not?

>>39141798
Please show me what gender studies graduate is making 6 figures with a job in his or her field of study

>>39143873
It is but people are blind to it because capitalism = shiny gifts. It doesn't matter how hard porky fucks me as long as I have the new iPhone. This is how Americans, and really all westerners are bribed.

>>39141909
This is literally the capitalist model. Doesn't mean some people are able to cheat the system. No system is full proof.

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Hard work is not equivalent to value of production. Creating Flappy Bird was hardly challenging, as soon as it was popular millions of clones appeared instantly to cash in on the popularity. But it held value to a lot of people, and was quickly adopted providing immense profit to the creator.

The chef who works himself to bone 18 hours a day at his shop only to provide mediocre food that not many people want does not "deserve" to be compensated for it. He should get no compensation for undesired production and is wasting labour. Because when he continues, he is forced out of business and his labour will automatically be moved to somewhere more productive because if he does not find employment he will die.

The worker who sleeps on the night shift benefits just as much as the single father making 200% of production goals at the factory when communism is implemented. It is only thanks to this that the business remains open so both can have a job, as neither have any obligations to the capital, only their own labour.

The freer a market is, the freer its people, and the higher the standard of living. Both China and India massively improved their standard of living and quality of goods when they stopped protecting local industries and opened their markets.

Communism is a failed meme. Stop. Come up with something new, you fucking statists.

>>39143989
I always find it hilarious when the dipshit Communists in America always go for shit like the newest iPhones. Because principles don't matter for spoiled kids of the bourgeoisie.

>>39143773
>>Tell me how capitalism works when there are literally several continents with vested interests due to unequal wealth distribution interested in seeing you fail.

Are you familiar with a period of history known as the cold war?

To be honest I think you're very confused. What are you advocating for? International free trade? The unrestricted flow of capital? I agree, it has all kinds of benefits.

>>39144040
>Are you familiar with a period of history known as the cold war?
Russia vs America and Europe ( post imperialsm so they had a shit ton of resources for the low low price of the threat of death to the natives )
Fuck off.

>>39144030
Look at how "free" our hospital care system is. Who doesn't like being denied coverage based on pre-existing conditions. How "free" our education system is. How schools are practically forced to sell sodas to kids so they can reach budget. It's broken as fuck and going full libertarian is going full retard.

>>39144059
No, you are apparently not very familiar the history of the cold war.

Again, what are you saying has been inflicted on communist countries? That they were cut off from trade investment? As I said, you don't need to convince me of the value of those things.

Even sanctioned and isolated, being able to feed the population of your country is a low bar. Communist countries often fail to clear it. I also confess I don't understand how the United States forces the hands of communist governments and consistently makes them oppress their own people.

>>Fuck off.
It's alright to just concede the point or simply stop replying at all.

>>39144071
>medical
Protected industry. Huge government involvement. The reasoning is so "people aren't exploited when they need it the most". In a free market any good or service can only be sold for what people are willing to pay for it. You can argue monopolies or oligopolies sure. But oligopolies continually cannibalize themselves like how when slaves we freed White plantation owners conspired to keep Black wages low by private agreements. Too bad that when someone had a labour shortage on their plantation it was too tempting to offer a Black just 5 cents more than their current employer to steal him away, and blacks had better wage growth in that period than whites despite lower real wages. If every medical company and hospital tried to charge very high prices, they would inevitably betray each other for more profit. Their selfishness is what keeps them in check, making it a far more reliable system of balances than some virtue like honesty.
>schools
Private education is better.
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11f0019m/11f0019m2015367-eng.htm
https://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/pubs/studies/2006461.aspx
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/12174166/Private-school-pupils-two-years-ahead-of-state-educated-peers-by-the-age-of-16.html
https://www.cais.ca/uploaded/Families/OECD_-_Private_school_students_perform_better.pdf
http://www.capenet.org/pdf/Outlook409.pdf

Get fucked commie.

>>39144172
>Even sanctioned and isolated, being able to feed the population of your country is a low bar.
It's actually not, it entirely depends on how your economy works.
Just because the US is rich enough it throws food away to keep prices high doesn't mean it's some universal truth that food is the easiest thing to produce. What is comparative advantage?
>I also confess I don't understand how the United States forces the hands of communist governments and consistently makes them oppress their own people.

>Want to trade for food
>Country says no because political reasons
>Your people starve
It's not difficult to understand.

I also like how you avoid the main point of my argument: That capitalism is only as powerful as it is because non-capitalist practices that allowed it to gain an advantage over other communism before communism even existed.

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>>39144240
> private schools are better in a capitalist society where you have to pay to enter a special school because public schools are shit
Uhh, no shit? Thanks for proving his point i guess

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>>39141550
>>39141590
>parents purchase a house i don't live in
>rent it out and get by having contributed absolutely nothing to society

>>39144328
You earned it bro :)

>>39144320
Are you retarded? A state school is run by the state. It is the state that develops the standards, hires its teachers, and designs the cirriculum. The free market sees that THE STATE (this is government btw, the thing commies like you want more of) is a fucking mess and there is opportunity to profit. As a result, these students receive higher education.

The free market provides better options for those that can pay more. There is more incentive to compete for the biggest number of students possible, so pricing is aimed at attracting the majority. And thusly, the cheapest schools (state run) who have the lowest standards for staffing, are hugely wasteful and bureaucratic, and have heavily unionized employees are shittier and people get shit education.

Woah. And you want more of THAT?

>>39141550
50 hours a week isnt as much as you think.

>>39141858
>people who don't work at all still get paid the same as someone who works very hard
No they don't.

This wasn't the case in the USSR, this wasn't-and-isn't the case in China, and it certainly wouldn't be the case in a classless stateless moneyless society where you produce your own stuff ad-hoc with factories held in common.

>>39141909
Working hard is different than working smart

>>39141550
>work harder than peasant
>get paid 200 bukcs
>communist cuck will defend this

>>39144291
>>It's actually not, it entirely depends on how your economy works.
Precisely. I don't think I need to say anything more on that subject.

With respect to your main point, I didn't address it because there's very little to address. I understand the gist of what you're saying: that today's wealthy capitalist societies obtained that wealth under non-capitalism organizations, viz. colonialism. You offer this with no proof or evidence, just state it as fact.

Again, you're confused on history. The large expansions in European colonialism didn't proceed the adoption of free market societies, they followed it. The adoption of the modern conception of property rights in Europe began in the mid 1600s in Great Britain. The huge expansion of empires followed that and was possible only because of the rapid technological advances achieved in Europe.

The history aside, you are also incorrect on the subject of economics. Colonialism was an intensely costly enterprise and collapsed when the colonial masters could no longer afford to maintain them.

>>39144393
>Are you retarded?
Are you? You're either dumb or purposefully trying to bait me into taking your strawmam argument. You're saying that public schools = run by government therefore that would be how schools are maintained in a communist society. That isn't the case. Public schools are shit for many reasons, but that doesn't have to be the case. Your looking at shitty schools that maintained by shitty governments in a shitty society and then going "Commies BTFO because these schools are shit"

>>39144320
So you'd be happier if we lost the option of paying for a private school and instead all went to the shitty "free" schools?

>>39144393
>The free market provides better options for those that can pay more
There's your problem, Tim. Most working people, if not most of the general population, can't afford to "pay more." It also fucks over people living in rural areas because who's going to build a private school where the probability of profit is not high? It's a system designed to, if not dependent on, fuck people over so there's enough equity to justify the wealthy getting better services.

>>39144566
You're assuming that a public school HAS to be shit. That's not true and I'm not going to argue with you assuming that. There's many reasons public schools are shit and it's not magically because they're public.

>>39144552
>I understand the gist of what you're saying: that today's wealthy capitalist societies obtained that wealth under non-capitalism organizations, viz. colonialism. You offer this with no proof or evidence, just state it as fact.
Holy shit nigga you are delusional.
Yeah man all this land in North America was just empty until Europeans came along.
Land is a resource too, and my argument isn't limited to just land. It's just the most glaringly obvious counterpoint I'm surprised you even bothered to write that post.
>The large expansions in European colonialism didn't proceed the adoption of free market societies, they followed it.
It doesn't matter when it happened. If I threaten to kill you for your resources, get your resources I just made a huge profit that wouldn't have occurred in a "fair" system. And since colonialism and capitalism predates communism, there was a lot of that type of transaction going on. This process accumulates wealth, allowing "capitalists" to have a huge advantage in resources against later systems. This advantage was used to bully communism out of the ideological market.

>>39144600
There are actually a few reasons to suspect that a public school would perform worse than a private one, but if you don't want to argue it, fine, let's not.

I'd like you to explain to me why I'm better off in a world where I have fewer options rather than more options on where to send my child to school.

>>39144634
Let's restrict ourselves to the land in Europe then. Europe enacted private property laws first. Europe subsequently saw a huge increase in technology and living standards. European empires then began to expand. That's a matter of the historical record. Please explain to me how A precedes B in time and yet B causes A to happen.

>>39144556
>in my perfect world, governments run schools better than they currently do
>in my perfect society, we have better state run education
>because I say so

I don't get you commies. It clearly doesn't work and you blindly insist otherwise. Communism is statist so of course education would be state run that's how communism works it provides everything. If you are supporting anarcho-communism you're an even BIGGER retard than I thought before.
>>39144576
How did the wealthy become wealthy originally? Not in America, you'll just say they were rich in the old world. How did the first king become king? He used his brains and cunning to take power and wealth into his own hands, and convinced people to follow him.

How did Ford, Rockefeller, Carnegie, Morgan, and Vanderbilt become so incredibly rich and destroy their competitors? With their minds and cunning.

All wealth is earned wealth commies. You can complain about inheritance, but genes are inherited as well. I assume then that your utopia features a redistribution of genes so everyone is equally beautiful, intelligent, and strong/healthy? I aspire to love the individual and his freedom as much as you hate it.

You gotta play ball with that millionaires to become one

>>39144576
>justify the wealthy getting better services.
If one person wants something and another wants to sell it to him, I don't think those people need to justify their actions. I'd like you to justify why the state should intercede and stop that interaction.

>>39144682
>Europe enacted private property laws first. Europe subsequently saw a huge increase in technology and living standards.
Correlation =/= causation.
Not to mention weren't most colonial pursuits government funded?

>>39144650
It means that those who can't afford to pay for better schools are unable to do so and are stuck with a broken education system that gets by on advertising revenue because there's not enough funding to keep the school at remotely, say, Scandinavian standards. There's a reason public schools work far better in Europe while private schools are not as prominent over there. And here's a rational self-interest argument. If the public school system is able to compete with the private school system, would you really pay more for the private school? It's more economical to focus on public schools in such a case. It's not like you're profiting off of owning a private school either.

>>39144725
No, by itself correlation does not imply causation. However when there is a very well understood causal mechanism i.e. that private property rights incentive wealth creation and when that mechanism very consistently produces the expected outcome we have to start accept that A does in fact cause B.

Colonialism was government funded and as I've mentioned it was exorbitantly costly, was universally incapable of sustaining itself, and was never even correlated with huge increases in living standards, let alone worthy of being suspected as a cause.

>>39144650
>I'd like you to explain to me why I'm better off in a world where I have fewer options rather than more options on where to send my child
If you're some bourgeois/petite bourgeois fuck then I can't because the world is your oyster and you're free to do whatever you like because you're the one benefiting from the system. If you're literally anyone else then you'd support having a strong, well maintained, free education system. But again, you're assuming public schools would be the exact same in a communist society which isn't the case.

>>39144697
You realize that American schools are notoriously shitty, right? It's not even about fantasy, American public schools could realistically be a lot better right now in a capitalist system.

>>39144697
You're a fucking heartless sociopath who doesn't realize that monarchs owned what were effectively slaves in order to not do anything except live a life of luxury. It was paramount that these monarchs kept their serfs from rising up the social ladder so there would always be people to exploit and no competition from them. The same could be easily paralleled to today's corporate world with wageslavery. That term is not a meme for a reason. You have to work or you die.

>>39144775
>You realize that American schools are notoriously shitty, right?
Yeah, the government run ones are noticeably worse than the private ones.
>American public schools could realistically be a lot better right now in a capitalist system
Yeah, in a freer market where state schools aren't proped up by stolen money AKA taxes, the competition would benefit everyone. Glad you came to see things my way.

>>39144697
>How did the wealthy become wealthy originally?
By subverting the poor. That has, and always will, be the universal answer. Also lol @ "wealth is earned through inheritance is still earned". Way to admit you're full of shit

>>39144770
>Colonialism was government funded and as I've mentioned it was exorbitantly costly, was universally incapable of sustaining itself, and was never even correlated with huge increases in living standards, let alone worthy of being suspected as a cause.
Pretty sure the fact that a former colony who practically had a whole continent to themselves is the biggest country in the world, most powerful country in the world, and the richest country of the world disproves that hypothesis.
Failure of other colonies could easily attributed to the resource extraction becoming more difficult as you extract the easier sources of wealth. Kind of like an EROI. By then the resources are already in the colonists native lands even if the colony itself fails the country already has those resources acquired and benefits from that.
Your logic would be saying a lucrative mine is a total failure because it was eventually exhausted.

>>39141675
> working class scum thinking it's not hard to write an OS because you don't work with your hands

>>39144757
I would encourage you to research this subject a bit, private school attendance is not significantly higher in the United States than in Europe.

And I would love to hear your theories about why schools in other countries perform better than ours. It isn't down to money, we spend more per pupil than almost any country in the world.

And I also would like you to come out and fully embrace the point that you're dancing around: If I want to open a private school should the government forcibly prevent me from doing so? If I want to send my child to a private school should the government forcibly prevent me from doing so?

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>>39144845
>they exploited the poor before they were wealthy to become wealthy
Woah. So you're saying that anyone at all can become wealthy? You can even exploit your equals? But if they were your equals how could you exploit them? You'd need some sort of innate advantage if you weren't already wealthy yourself.

Maybe its that some people are just better than other people.

>>39144820
>Yeah, the government run ones are noticeably worse than the private ones.
Because the government doesn't care. Some countries do care. With reforms we could make public schools as good as private schools. You're assuming that public schools always have to be worse than private schools but there's no reason this has to be the case

>>39144820
So you're an anarchist, not a libertarian. Libertarians know that a bare minimum of taxes are needed for infrastructure and rural areas. TEA does not mean abolish all taxes.

>>39144847
I'm not talking about failure of the colonies, I'm talking about failure of the colonial masters. The empire itself was costly.

If you'd like to know about why the United States was a success when so many other former colonies weren't there's a great book that I'd recommend called Why Nations Fail. The answer has to do with the establishment of private property rights in the United States and a few other colonies due to specific circumstances of the environment the colonies were built in. In these cases the colonies flourished without exception after obtaining independence.

>>39144900
It's more profitable to the special interests to keep their relevant taxes low, passing the bill onto the common person, and keeping the general population too stupid to realize what's going on.

>>39144328
Even so, you still have a number of responsibilities.

>>39144877
I'm not a Communist, you condescending dipshit. Your view is an extreme and, as it's been pointed out, public schools are needed for poorer families, for rural families, and said schools could be reformed to have the same standards as the rest of the first world. Unfettered capitalism means that there is an incentive to let public schools be as shitty as they are and it revolves around saving pennies and tax dodging.

>>39144900
If its not the case then why isn't it already so?

Benefits of the state providing better education:
-higher education is strongly related to higher earning potential
-higher earning potential means more tax revenues
-smarter people should result in a more stable society where more follow rules
-"it would be nice"
-whoever did a good reform would become instant history, super famous

Clearly there is plenty of reason for them to do it currently. But they don't. Nor for monetary, egotist, or moral reasons. Probably because government is a fat slob with ineffective reach and labour.

>>39144901
Minarchist. Infrastructure is a meme and rural areas make a lot of money on their own. The only good uses for taxes are border control, judiciary system, and law enforcement. That should be the sole extent of taxes to maintain a nationstate. Obviously I consider this an unattainable ideal, but working towards it provides visible benefit bit by bit so I don't even need a revolution to make it happen.

Nigger.

>>39144975
I never called you a communist you illiterate moron.

You asserted certain things which were factually incorrect. I pointed that out. No reason to take it personally.

It seems to me that you're objecting on principle to the very notion of private schools. I'm asking you to clarify that. If I'm incorrect then please let me know.

I also asked you to explain to me why you think public schools do better in other countries. I have studied public education fairly extensively and I have my own ideas about this. I would love to hear yours. However, if your views continue to be false I will continue to tell you that they're false.

My view is that choice is a good thing. That's hardly extreme.

>>39145019
1. You're assuming smarter people is a good thing for the US. It's not. There needs to be dregs of society for our society to run.
2. We live in a capitalist society setup where education and healthcare are businesses. There's a reason why college isn't free in the US. Making sure schools in the US are shit means middle class people pay for their children to go to better, private schools. The system is literally designed so there's better, costly alternatives. The state only provides the bare minimum, being shitty k-12 schooling. This isn't some /pol/ tier bullshit conspiracy, it's a fact of life

>>39145019
>Clearly there is plenty of reason for them to do it currently. But they don't. Nor for monetary, egotist, or moral reasons. Probably because government is a fat slob with ineffective reach and labour.
Because there is clearly a problem with America meeting the standards of the rest of the first world. Coincidentally American politics is also far more strongly defined by lobbyist groups and trickle-down economics. Guess which those serve and how gutting public education could benefit the plutocracy.

>Infrastructure is a meme and rural areas make a lot of money on their own
I live in a rural area and I can guarantee that you have no idea what you're talking about. Infrastructure is the reason rural areas can earn jack shit to begin with, so raw material extraction can get to factories. Unless you're perfectly OK with private companies charging an arm and a leg for toll fees and materials getting to market weeks after the produce has expired, I'm going to call you callously clueless.

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>>39144849
>contribute nothing but bloated piece of shit that gets infected with viruses
>dude I'm the richest man in the world

>>39141550
Work smart, not hard. Idiot

>>39141750
without the landlord there wouldn't be a factory numbnuts

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>>39141550
>be me
>am poorfag
>decide to become rich
>go to college, take a loan, get an engineering degree
>put my money into various blue chip stocks, ETF's, Roth IRA's, etc.
>save up my money and spend the bare minimum, buy old used cars, use coupons and sales en masse, etc.
>eventually start buying up cheap property, fixing it up, and renting it out to other people
>one day I find myself a millionare
>browse 4chan only to find some wagecuck calling me lazy
You have to TRY to become rich, dumbass, the money isn't going to just fall into your lap.

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>>39146296
>money isn't going to just fall into your lap.

Mfw I'm a trust fund babby laughing @ you

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>people I work with work less than me but get paid more
fucking wow

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>>39141550
Why not do something useful for society like make a product or service instead of being some other smart persons work horse.

>>39141550
>labour theory of value meme
Sorry OP, but you've been duped. Just because you work hard doesn't mean you'll be paid well. They'll try to pay you as little as possible. Not willing to work for peanuts? Don't worry. They'll find somebody who is.

>>39141550
>works hard
>not smart
stupid goy

>>39141703
we need slaves again

>>39144023

you fool, its FOOL proof, not full proof

>>39142048
Venezuela was fine until oil prices fucked them

>>39147738
>Venezuela was fine until it wasn't
Damnit, he got me!

why does 4chan defend the rich? it's one thing if your self-made but even when it's family money you're labeled a commie if you criticize the wealthy.

>>39147897
Because commies don't understand the concept of 'financial risk'

>>39141713
Why doesn't any father deserve to give their resources to their descendents?

>>39141675
Work smart not hard.

Your skills are easily replaceable and you don't have the IQ or entrepreneurial sense to sell a product or skill for millions.

>>39141550
>work harder than any millionaire

Well clearly you aren't working smarter.

>>39147897
May as well splash acid on peoples faces it their parents are attractive models/actors. They just inherited those good looks because they were lucky enough to be born into the right family.

>>39141550
Work smarter not harder :^)

git gud

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>Believing we live in actually capitalism
You have a lot to learn anon

In time everyone will be slaves to very few royal born capitalists. I dont see any other outcome that would be possible. So in the end most people will be just living in a few metres apartments with roommates doing slavery work that was still not destroyed by machines and robots. If someone rebels he wont be able to access his bank account until he resigns to brainwash therapy. This is the future you chose. Either this or we will die in a war.

>>39141550
I can work very hard by trying to chop wood with a butterknife
That doesn't make it useful

>Where do your profits come from?
Watch capitalists squirm when asked this one simple question!

>>39149283
Voluntary exchange of goods or services.

Are you retarded?

>>39149419
That doesn't explain profit. You can exchange things all day and end up with less than what you started with. So the question just becomes, what must you do to exchange commodities and make a profit on your investment?

>>39149499
No it does explain profit. A person won't exchange goods or services all day when he doesn't have any profit from that.

For both sides to make a profit there needs to be an advantage in the exchange, a laborer will exchange his labor for money, the employer exchanges money for the workers labor. Both are better off - this isn't a zero sum game,

>>39149613
>A person won't exchange goods or services all day when he doesn't have any profit from that.
No shit he'd go bankrupt but you still haven't explained how he makes a profit.

>For both sides to make a profit there needs to be an advantage in the exchange, a laborer will exchange his labor for money, the employer exchanges money for the workers labor.
In this example, the laborer exchanges his labor presumably because he has nothing else to sell and he needs to sell his labor to sustain his life. But the employer's situation is more complicated. He needs the laborer to produce whatever it is he intends to sell on the market. When he sells on the market he will be competing in price with other sellers. How does he make a profit in this situation?

>Both are better off - this isn't a zero sum game
This is vague wording. Maybe both are better off, but have both made a profit? It doesn't really make sense for two parties in an exchange to both come out with a profit. Either two parties make an equal exchange or not. If an exchange is not equal then one side is going to have the advantage. What you are trying to avoid saying is that in order to make a profit you have to give less than what you receive.

>>39149859
> No shit he'd go bankrupt but you still haven't explained how he makes a profit.

I have you're just not listening.
> This is vague wording.
The notion of non-zero sum games is very un vague.
> Is that in order to make a profit you have to give less than what you receive.
Hurr durr surplus labor theory
Hurr durr the creation of new stuff is impossible.

Jesus, just stop and think about it. If economy was a 0 sum game where does the new wealth come from? Air? You have computers and shit that wasn't even here 100 years ago. How is that possible if new stuff isn't created?

In game theory there are zero sum games and non zero sum games.

A zero sum game is a game where gain is only possible through the loss of somebody else. We cannot both win at chess.

If I have 5 tokens and you have 5 tokens and the game is about accumulation of tokens there's no other way to get tokens except for taking tokens.

A non-zero sum game on the other hand doesn't imply that someone's gain is my loss. If I make shoes in 3 hours and clothes in 10 hours and you make shoes in 10 hours and shoes in 3 hours we can exchange clothes for shoes with each other and we gain 7 hours of work.

We're both more rich. But using your theory this exchange isn't possible because one of us should lose.

>>39150116
>If I make shoes in 3 hours and clothes in 10 hours and you make shoes in 10 hours and shoes in 3 hours we can exchange clothes for shoes with each other and we gain 7 hours of work.
That's an equal exchange. We both have more stuff but that's only because we spent time creating more stuff. Neither of us has made a profit in this situation. We've spent 6 hours creating 2 pairs of clothes and shoes and exchanged them equally but that's not what profit is.

>>39150220
> Why can people be better off and not make a profit
Watch communists squirm when asked this simple question

>. Neither of us has made a profit in this situation
Why? We can spent additional 7 hours to bum around or to create another pair of shoes while people who mentally retarded and don't participate in voluntary exchanges spend another 7 hours working.

You just try to define profit in a very narrow way so you can say that profit without exploitation isn't impossible.

Either that or you don't understand what profit and wealth really is hence your confusion and thinking that communism is somehow better.

>>39150286
>you're a communist
Wrong, I'm actually a Marxist libertarian. You still haven't explained what profit is. You explained how new wealth is created (by working, duh) and then tried to awkwardly equate the creation of wealth with profit when even a child knows it's not the same thing. Thanks for playing I guess.

>>39150344
I didn't say that you're a communist I said you're confused about what profit is and hence may think why communism is better than capitalism.

I did say that profit comes from the voluntary exchange of goods and services. I then gave you an example where we were better of by 7work/hours.

You try to pretend that this exchange and saving 7hrs of work isn't profit.

capitalism is coming to an end soon, machines will do all the work

>>39141550
Nepotism is not the same thing as capitalism, you wouldn't be complaining about this if everyone had to earn wealth on the own merit rather than by inheritance like a true meritocracy. There is nothing wrong with the system itself, the problem lies entirely with the people in it. You, and commies like you are only hindering things by confusing the issue because you don't know any better.

>>39150416
Profit comes from exchange, but only if you actually exchange for a surplus. That's what profit means. That's not my definition of profit, it's what literally everybody on the planet understands profit to be.

We're not both 7 hours richer. In your example, it doesn't even matter that you can make shoes in 10 hours and that I can make clothes in 10 hours. Neither of us is going to waste time making things for more than what they are sold for on the market since we can just buy them. If I make a pair of shoes in 3 hours and exchange them for your clothes then I'm not richer, I just exchanged my shoes for your clothes. However if I exchange a pair of shoes for 2 sets of clothing then I made a profit. 3 hours of profit to be exact.

>You must be a communist to criticize capitalism
Fucking great arguing as usual idiots

>>39141713
>deserves
That's not the point mate, this world ain't a fair one, get over it, stop whinging and learn how to play the game. Where's your nearest library? start there.

>>39150535
> Profit comes from exchange, but only if you actually exchange for a surplus. That's what profit means. That's not my definition of profit, it's what literally everybody on the planet understands profit to be.

I guarantee you they don't. If I put $100 into my bank and get $102 back I made $2 profit. Where's the surplus?

> Neither of us is going to waste time making things for more than what they are sold for on the market since we can just buy them.
Show me that you understand basic economic principles first, on a closed economy of 2 and only then we'll talk about markets.

You try to magic away 7hrs of free time we both are richer due to engaging in voluntary exchange. This is pure profit - you only have to compare this scenario to a scenario where we don't engage in that exchange.