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If we lived in a rational society, we would go about finding out what happens after death from an empirical perspective. After all, no question could ever be more important than our eternal destination.
As such, we would start researching Near-Death Experiences (NDEs) millions of times more intensely than we do now. This would mean that studies such as this one:
http://www.horizonresearch.org/Uploads/Journal_Resuscitation__2_.pdf
Would be multiplied by the thousands. That would mean an undeniable amount of verified perceptions during CA that there has already been a sufficient amount of to establish a pattern, and we would be forced to acknowledge that the afterlife is indeed real.
This would have huge consequences for everyone. There's a difference between knowing that there is an afterlife, in contrast to the religious approach in believing, or more accurately hoping that there is one.
If you knew t hat around the corner of a ceased heartbeat there was an ultraparadise that was 10^10000000 than anything this existence could ever hope to offer, and you knew this with as much certainty as you know that the moon exists,
How would that change the way you lived your life? Would you suicide immediately? Would you go crazy and party your ass off first? Would it have zero impact?
And how would it change society as a whole?
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>>39014519
What's the gain from finding out what's "after death"? It's not like we can interact with people after theyre dead. They're fucking dead!
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Near-death is nowhere near after-death.
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>>39014950
If someone told you you would win $100000000000 and become a supermodel and gain eternal youth with perfect health in 10 years time, would you not want to know right now?
If there's a paradise, that's a much, much better scenario than what I just described. Only it will happen in X years from now, where X<123. Wouldn't you want to know?
And the fact that we can't interact with the dead right now, how does that really matter?
>>39015060
>Near-death is nowhere near after-death.
Actually, cardiac arrest IS death. Death is a process that begins when the heart stops beating, that's the scientific definition of death. People who are having NDEs are experiencing what the initial stage of death is like from a subjective perspective.
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>>39015226
>heart stops beating, that's the scientific definition of death.
..but the brain cells and shit could still fire electricity, or whatever they do to communicate, right? Once that stops happening, it's really likely that you're gone for good.
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Cardiac arrest isn't death.
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>>39015408
Yes, but electrochemical interactions in the brain cease completely within 8-20 seconds after onset of cardiac arrest.
>>39015452
>Cardiac arrest isn't death.
Explicitly false: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPCvuva2deU#t=07m58s
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your conscience has not yet permanently ceased existing. While this is a bodily death, it is not a "spiritual" death.
Sorry to the fedora fags who are angry i used the word spiritual but we don't exactly have a vast vocabulary describing the state of consciousness after death in a scientific matter, simply because it is not a scientific matter.
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>>39015789
But prove it.
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>>39015226
>Actually, cardiac arrest IS death. Death is a process that begins when the heart stops beating, that's the scientific definition of death
Don't focus so much on semantics. In this context the definition of death should be related to the non-physical, not some ceased bodily function. You're not much of a philosopher, are you.
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>>39015789
>simply because it is not a scientific matter.
http://anti-matters.org/articles/8/public/8-8-1-PB.pdf
That's the whole point of this thread - it is explicitly a scientific matter. Death is a real phenomenon that occurs in the world that we can investigate using the tools of science.
How is it not a scientific matter?
>>39015820
>Don't focus so much on semantics. In this context the definition of death should be related to the non-physical, not some ceased bodily function.
Huh? Death is by definition the cessation of bodily functions. What else could it be?
There is also the question of what happens to consciousness when this happens. According to materialism, consciousness should end when this happens.
But the data shows that the complete opposite is happening, and as the body and brain stops functioning, consciousness and cognition expands exponentially.
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>>39014519
What if I sincerely hope there is no afterlife? Am I alone in this? This is already bad enough
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>>39014519
I think we don't study what's there, if there is anything, because we're afraid of what we might find.
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>>39015226
>Actually, cardiac arrest IS death. Death is a process that begins when the heart stops beating, that's the scientific definition of death.
wrong, brain death is
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the tibetans already for the most part figured out what happens after death. the tibetan book of the dead is as best available knowledge for what happens after death. they had the most time to sit and observe what happens.
inb4 hurr durr but science
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>>39015874
>Death is by definition the cessation of bodily functions
The definition of death is whatever we agree upon.
>According to materialism, consciousness
Doesn't exist. And materialism has been proven wrong so don't even mention it.
>as the body and brain stops functioning...
>consciousness
Cannot be observed
>cognition expands exponantially
Maybe it does, but what does this indicate?
I stand by my statement. Familiarise yourself with philosophy before you decide to tackle these sorts of issues.
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>>39014519
We already know you faggot
Unsaved
Matthew 13
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Recelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Saved
Matthew 13:43
Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
John 14
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Revelation 21
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
How to get saved
Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
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>>39015879
Why do you sincerely hope that?
>>39015887
Interesting. Care to elaborate?
>>39015896
See >>39015874, or 13:48 in the video.
>>39015948
>Familiarise yourself with philosophy before you decide to tackle these sorts of issues.
I still don't understand how you think I'm not familiar with the relevant philosophy pertinent to this intellectual endeavour.
Care to elaborate?
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>>39016023
Because the idea that anything could happen to me is terrifying. As if material reality doesn't have enough of its own vagaries.
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>>39016023
You don't understand semantics, the mind-body distinction and you don't know what materialism is. I don't need to tell you that you're not well versed in philosophy; unless you've deceived yourself you should know that yourself.
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>>39014519
Even if we did end up discovering specifically what happens after death that information would be so heavily guarded that you would be actually ironically killed for attempting to spread that information.
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>>39016060
You're scarred by life, that's understandable. But do you think a super-amazing, omnibenevolent paradise would be wonderful, and capable of healing you?
>>39016068
I know what semantics mean, but I don't see how I engaged it in and not the actual substance of what was being discussed. You're throwing empty accusations at me without explicitly clarifying where I did what in an erroneous manner.
Quote me, quote what I was replying to, and demonstrate how I was diverting the issue by semantic analysis instead of getting to the meat of the problem.
How do I not understand the mind-body problem, and how do I not understand what materialism is? Because you equate eliminative materialism with materialism as an umbrella term (the sense in which I used it)?
Again, you throw all of these empty accusations at me without demonstrating how they're true.
>>39016108
I highly doubt that, given that NDE research is not guarded at all right now.
If people were more rational, maybe. But NDE research is systematically brushed aside by human nature itself - people are irrational, afraid and distracted. Even when you explicitly tell people that there is a way for them to know the answers, most of them won't be interested to hear what you or scientists have to say because they're not emotionally ready to investigate it.
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>>39016303
In the words of Groucho Marx, I wouldn't trust any (omnibenevolent paradise) that would have me as a member.
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Why dont THEY care?
the people who have the most stuff in this Life will fare the worst in the after life. That's why they are constantly scheming now to try and live forever. Or for at least as long as they can to not cross over.
They also figured out the Universe is probably just a really fancy video game/hologram and debated finding a way to get out.
But, being a winner in the video game and a winner outside the video game are two different things.
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>>39016327
dont worry, the rules to get in are pretty strict.
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>>39016330
>the people who have the most stuff in this Life will fare the worst in the after life.
How is life in the middle east treating you?
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>tfw THERES a point where I might have to stop SHITPOSTING
WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENS NEXT? CAN I SHITPOST IN HELL?
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>>39016303
>I highly doubt that, given that NDE research is not guarded at all right now.
The research itself among other things related won't be guarded in a physical sense.
The point is even if we did find the result of death, we wouldn't ever know it. There would always be naysayers implanted and counter evidence fabricated to hide the truth.
It's a similar argument to the key to immortality. We know that there are avenues to immortality in sight right now but if we eventually did have the means for immortality it wouldn't be something any random Bob Brown could go get on the street. It would be only accessible by billionaires at minimum.
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>>39016350
Yep that's the problem innit
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>>39014519
Why would we have evolved a brain if we have an indestructible soul which can do our thinking for us? It doesn't make any evolutionary sense.
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>>39014519
The thing you call your "self" is just your thoughts and memories which are generated in your brain. If that brain dies your notion of being a "self" devolves. You go back to being everything at every point in time. There is life after death. But not your life.
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>>39014519
>an ultraparadise that was 10^10000000 than anything this existence could ever hope to offer
Why do you assume it has to be an "ultra paradise"?
Can't it just be more of the same, but in a different reality/universe/vidyaworld?
Maybe we'd even all go to hell.
If it was definitely paradise, and we all knew it, then this entire universe is rendered pointless. We may as well all mass suicide, right away.
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>>39016403
the brain is firmware. Its a port for 3 dimensional reality
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>>39016006
>a palace of gold in heaven
What does gold matter in such a paradise? Wouldn't a comfy palace be better than one made of a material whose only value is from trade for goods/services on earth, and sometimes for components in high-end electronics?
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>>39016006
>some people wrote a book on it. That's all the evidence I need
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If you got evidence what would you do with it. Also, you have to factor in what is waiting on the other side may not like you very much,
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>>39016330
>the people who have the most stuff in this Life will fare the worst in the after life.
No, that's just your human desire for revenge and "justice" talking.
The reality is, the afterlife is equal for everyone - we're all infinitely happy, smart, rich, good-looking, talented, etc, once we're home. There is no karma, you only chose this life to experience what it's like. If you're a loser or poor, it's only because you wanted to have the experience of being those things. Your life is pretty tailor-made by your higher self before coming here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo8szDkpcsM
>>39016350
If you're not joking: No, everyone gets to come home unconditionally, as our return ticket to paradise is not conditioned on anything we do or don't do while we're playing this game.
It's just a game. Do you throw your kids out of the house if they kill everyone in GTA V before dinner?
>>39016403
Because we're role-playing as human beings, and we want the world to feel exclusive, as if it's all that there is. It makes the whole experience of being here and being a human more immersive.
And our brain does influence our human cognition. We're not just role-playing outer physical traits, but also the mental life of humans - and they are definitely imperfect.
>Why do you assume it has to be an "ultra paradise"?
Why would the afterlife construct itself in a non-optimal way to begin with? "Let's exist for eternity, sub-optimally!" I can't see a single reason for it.
That, and that NDE reports definitely highlight how infinitely amazing it is:
http://www.broadjam.com/artists/songs.php?artistID=14702&mediaID=460764
>If it was definitely paradise, and we all knew it, then this entire universe is rendered pointless. We may as well all mass suicide, right away.
Hahaha :D
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doesn't your brain spaz out and dump a bunch of DMT when you're close to death
it's not actual magic or anything
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The government or some secret society of rich guys probably already did the experiments and knows.
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>>39016619
>If you're a loser or poor, it's only because you wanted to have the experience of being those things.
Fuuuck my higher self up it's stupid ass
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>>39016688
DMT is the chemical of the cosmos, it awakens your brain to the true reality.
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>>39016006
Ephesians 1 11
Fuck you deity
Isaiah 46:10
No freewill you dumb bitch
, Isaiah 45 7
And he created evil, suck a dick christfag
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>>39016006
Lol,you're going to be a slave forever and there's nothing you can do AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
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>>39014519
For me, it would change nothing.
If afterlife exists and we are in an eternal garden of happiness, then that would be one reason more for me to see that life here first. If it would also proof itself to be real that reincarnation is possible at will and at any time, it also wouldn't change anything for me. I want to play that life through and then play the other side. Where humans are, there will always be suffering or the feeling of being bored. I want to be alone on the other side, if I want to be happy.
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>>39016827
>Using KJV
That is pretty much the worst translation out there and the fact that whoever made that picture uses it shows that they either are dishonest or you have no idea what their talking about. If you look at the more accurate translations, pic related they all use words other than evil.
If Christianity is so obviously stupid and atheism is so obviously true why do atheists need to lie so much?
>Really makes ya think
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>>39016967
Literally says evil at the bottom. Calamity synonymous with evil. Shoot your self
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>>39017000
Yes 2/11 translations gets you the answer you want. I included JPS Tanakh 1917 to prove that unlike you I'm intellectually honest. Reading the other translations do you really not understand what the verse is getting at? All it is saying is God sends bad things sometimes. That's not something I'd think the vast majority of christians would find controversial. Bad things can have good ends, I suppose some extreme pacifists would disagree with that but the vast majority of people, Christian or not would probably agree with that statement. The way your picture was quoting the verse it was implying that God creates all evil, reading the other translations that clearly is not the case.
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>>39017044
Well in a roundabout way..he is the original source of ALL creation. And he can see the future, also it says he WILLS things to occur. Meaning it was intentional, it was planned thoroughly, and executed with supreme precision.
So yeah, indirectly, He most definitely is the author of evil
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>>39017044
an event causing great and often sudden damage or distress; a disaster.
Calamity. That sounds like evil
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>>39017044
Hebrew word for calamity translation Ra=evil
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>>39017044
I guess hes only an asshole SOMETIMES huh?
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>>39017087
Okay so you're conceding now that you misquoted Isaiah? I'd like like to deal with these arguments one at a time before I move on.
>>39017118
>>39017125
>>39017132
Yes did you read what I said? God does things which are bad because he has a greater end in mind. This isn't a controversial statement. For example bombing a city might be a bad thing but if it helps you defend from a war of aggression than it has a good end.
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>>39016688
No, that's an urban legend that there's precisely zero evidence of.
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>>39017148
Well that makes sense, sort of..
Ultimately no one can be held accountable other than "him" if all sin and wickedness are apart of a grand unfolding of events. So it sounds like you're saying some are saved and some are doomed. But either way it doesn't make a fucc of a difference since no mortal can oppose "his" will
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>>39017148
No, I never conceded that. YOU however seem to be intentionally misinterpreting the scripture, for it's very obvious the definition of calamity, distress, disaster is synonymous with evil..
The verses are plain and clear in wording, I don't get why you keep twisting the meaning when it's put so blatantly. Unless you're just being deceptive..
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