In 1974, the American Psychiatric Association struck homosexuality

Disclaimer: I support gay marriage and sex-change surgery. There's zero sense in trying to force a square peg through a round hole simply because the square ones fit fine, and why should they have to go through all the emotional trauma the vast majority of society puts them through? But I don't understand why people insist it's not a mental condition with zero evidence to back it up.

it's an attempt by the (((APA))) to normalize the conditions to simply being a lifestyle choice as opposed to a result of much bigger psychological issues below the surface.

>>38746787
>> They don't harm society, they're not hurting anyone
>So? That's not the classification of a mental condition.
>>(trans specific) It's not even like they think abnormally, they just long for one thing that doesn't hurt anyone else.
>The same could be said of body integrity identity disorder, where people long to cut off perfectly functioning body parts in order to become disabled. How normal are they? Besides, you don't think schizophrenic people think they're thinking normally, up until the moment they get hospitalized?
This is the crux of why your argument is incorrect. What exactly is your definition of an illness? Generally something has to be in some way harmful to be considered pathological. You point to people who mutilate their own bodies and to schizophrenics. It's very obvious in those cases that these people are mentally afflicted in a way that causes them harm. Gay people are not mutilating themselves. Gay people are perfectly capable of functioning in the world without medical help. Your comparisons are not valid.

Benign preferences are not typically considered to constitute illnesses. Why would they be? They aren't harmful. A doctor has no business worrying about them.

>>38746787
letting someone with gender dysphoria mutilate their body and attempt to "change genders" is akin to letting someone with severe depression off themselves
just because someone with mental illness knows what they want, it doesn't mean it's the correct thing.

>>38746787
Agree of course but this ain't no politics board. Take to it /pol/.

>>38747497
Look up suicide rates, and then tell me there's no harm. But for mental illness, well, Asperger's Syndrome is a mental illness, and all it means is that you have increased intelligence and decreased social awareness. Not a problem in terms of self, but definitely doesn't fit into society. Same with homosexuality or gender dysphoria.
>>38747537
It might not be your definition of correct, but you probably don't know what gender dysphoria feels like either.

>>38748039
I think the question of suicide is ancillary. Gayness isn't per se causing people to kill themselves. Being gay is correlated with higher incidences of clinical depression, anxiety, etc. but that doesn't mean its the same thing as those sicknesses, which are still considered maladies by the APA. A gay person is not necessarily a depressed person nor a suicidal one.

With regards to Asperger's syndrome, it is not listed in the DSM as a mental illness.

>>38748119
Well, yeah, cause they lumped it in as Autism Spectrum Disorder (and I'm still pissed about that since, again, no reason - they're completely separate afflictions). What I'm trying to say is that things that make you not fit in with society, even if they don't cause you to harm yourself or others, can still count as mental illnesses.

>>38746787
>gender is a social construct
that seems rather true though.
do you think girls are inclined to liking the color pink if they have no outside influence? do you think men are inclined to liking cars with no outside influence? id agree that there are things that would can directly correlate with masculinity and femininity with regards to biology, but whats to say a guy wont like wearing a skirt if society never told him that guys dont wear skirts?

>>38746817
If you support cutting people's dicks off to make them feel better you're degenerate scum.

>>38748177
I'm aware of what you're trying to say. I don't agree with it.

If you look at the diagnostic criteria for autism spectrum disorder you see that they all point to serious disabilities that impede a person's ability to function in the world without care. That sounds like an illness. Not fitting in or being "different" doesn't constitute the same thing.

In general I think you're trying to radically redefine what it means to be ill. How do you account for the fact that homosexuality is received differently in different places? Was gayness not a disease in ancient Greece, but it suddenly became one Christian Europe centuries later? What other diseases are only diseases in certain centuries. Is gayness an illness in backwoods Alabama, but not in San Francisco? What other diseases are only diseases in certain parts of the country? You're not describing something peculiar to the "disease" itself. You're not describing something peculiar to the "diseased" person themselves. What you're saying is in fact that the concept of a disease has no objective meaning, but that it is instead a social construct. It is a disease only in so far as society reacts to it in a certain way. Sorry, but I disagree with that.

>>38747570
Go back2redit friendo

>>38748207
Well, who the fuck said any of those things were your gender? Pink used to be a guy color (white was the girl color), and Scotland can tell you a few things about skirts. And men typically have egos which cars can be an extension of. This applies to a great many things, not just cars.
>>38748226
I say that anyone can do whatever they want to themselves as long as they don't hurt anyone else.
>>38748304
First of all, that's equivocation. I'm talking about the specific variety of ASD which used to be classified as Asperger's Syndrome, which fits my definition and not yours.

Second, I legitimately have no idea what the fuck you're talking about here. I'm saying that X phenomenon is utterly retarded, and your counter is 'but did you know X exists?' I rate it a solid 5/7.

>>38746787
>Honestly, how could anyone fall for this?
I wonder...

>>38748690
It's not equivocation at all. The specific variety of ASD that fits your definition and not mine isn't considered an illness. That's my point.

As to the second thing you're saying, I don't know what it's supposed to mean. Go back and re-read what I said. Then try to reformulate your argument. If you give me specifics I can try to walk you through what I'm saying, but honestly as it is I don't know what you're even upset about.

>>your counter is 'but did you know X exists?'
What specifically did I say that you're referring to here?

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Why shouldn't people be allowed to lob off a piece of their own body, if they wanted to? I hate to be a meme, but it's their body their choice.

>>38748760
> The specific variety of ASD that fits your definition and not mine isn't considered an illness.
Do you not read, or are you intentionally trolling?
IT IS CURRENTLY CONSIDERED AN ILLNESS. IT JUST DOESN'T HAVE ITS OWN NAME ANYMORE AND IS LUMPED IN WITH AUTISM SPECTRUM DISORDER.
Jesus.
> If you give me specifics I can try to walk you through what I'm saying, but honestly as it is I don't know what you're even upset about.
You are saying that I'm not accounting for the fact that homosexuality is received differently in different places. The fact that it is not treated as an illness in different places is literally the thing I'm complaining about; you can't use the existence of the thing I'm complaining about as the counterargument for my complaining about it.
And yes, mental illnesses are by definition a social construct, since normality is a social construct and mental illness is defined by lack of normality. This is true in its own right, but any conclusions drawn from it are in no way related to the original point.

>>38748915
Go read the diagnostic criteria for autism. As I said, you cannot be diagnosed with it unless it is pathologically affecting your life. I'm perfectly fine dropping the autism thing completely because I think it's distracting from the larger area where you're going wrong.

https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/hcp-dsm.html

I'm going to go through your second paragraph bit by bit because this is where you're really confusing yourself.
>You are saying that I'm not accounting for the fact that homosexuality is received differently in different places.
I'm saying this for a very specific reason. In your words "things that make you not fit in with society ... still count as mental illnesses." By this logic gayness is a disease only in the specific times and places where it is perceived to be one. In places or times where being gay didn't ostracize someone it wouldn't be a disease by your logic.
>>The fact that it is not treated as an illness in different places is literally the thing I'm complaining about
This is circular logic. You want it treated like a disease everywhere, yet it's only a disease where it "makes you not fit in with society."
>>And yes, mental illnesses are by definition a social construct, since normality is a social construct and mental illness is defined by lack of normality. This is true in its own right
Being "abnormal" is not typically considered to be synonymous with disease. Being a genius is abnormal, by definition. It isn't considered a disease.
>>but any conclusions drawn from it are in no way related to the original point.
I'm afraid it doesn't work that way. If your view is that mental illnesses are a social construct then nothing matters here. Gayness isn't necessarily an illness, nor is it necessarily not one. If it's only societies view whether or not something constitutes a mental illness then you've conceded the point to the very people that you think you disagree with.

As the old verbatim goes, OP is a faggot. And, by god, it's true.

>>38748690
>Well, who the fuck said any of those things were your gender?
well, society. thats the point. thats why its a social construct. in fact the rest of your post just further supports the claim

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>>38749260
Are you memeing?

For real.

>>38749286
are you going to try and further the discussion?
for real.

Classifying homosexuality as a crime or a mental illness goes against the principles of Liberalism and Democracy.
You are not concerned for the physical and mental health and security of homosexuals.
You are mad because they displease you for some reason or another.
You think you're a really rational and unbiased, but in reality you are FUCKING MAD that those homos get to prance around and wave rainbow flags.
People don't exist for your pleasure.
Don't like it? TOUGH SHIT

all psychiatry is bullshit anyway

>>38750178
making it a crime is illiberal, but considering it a mental illness is not illiberal. especially considering that it's a mental illness whether you believe that or not.
Don't like it? TOUGH SHIT