Reminder: individualism is a meaningless concept, capitalism

>>38360880
the essence of communism is attempting to ensure everyone alive has means to humanely live. As long as welfare exists, and anyone can get on welfare, communism has no need to exist.

Though people may argue simply being on welfare and the systems arisen due to the current systems create less than ideal human/humane modes of existence.

>>38360880
Shut up you stupid NEET

marx was a filthy hobo jew who never worked in a day in his life
ironic that his ideologies should be used to put tens of millions of people into work camps and eventual death

>>38360880
I postulate that nature does not cater to a pure socialistic doctrine as it mitigates competition and ultimately hinders evolution

>>38360880
let me guess, you as an individual have no worth of any kind whatsoever so you are trying to get your hands on everybody elses, and think we need to have a COMMON GOAL just because you have no individual goals and are a useless piece of shit

>anon gets philosophical
>anon can't back up anything he says

nice thread you have there

>>38361509
its obviously sarcastic bait troll

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Us dumb goys are not falling for this again like we did 100 years ago Marx, you filthy Jew.

>>38361383
>implying you can sustain a humane lifestyle on welfare

>>38361597
food, water, clothing, shelter, hygienic essentials, jobs resource centers

better then many around the world of other poverty right.

>>38360880
>capitalism is inherently selfish
t. someone who has never read Marx

>>38361383
>the essence of communism is attempting to ensure everyone alive has means to humanely live.
No. The essence of communism is the formation of a society without states, money, or classes. This is to come about by a proletarian revolution through the contradictions in the capitalist system.

>>38360880
>capitalism benefits the intellectual
>capitalism leads to innovation
>capitalism expenses the meager and indigent to an unknown called death

>proposes a system where everyone starves but starves equally while the invigilators make all the money and live a lavish lifestyle.

Yea ok bud, take a trip to HCMC and tell me how it is outside pham ngu lao at 2 am on a Saturday, better yet take your life savings with you as one giant wad in your pocket.

be sure to post results.

>>38361826
>No. The essence of communism is the formation of a society without states, money, or classes.
Classes are unavoidable. Surely Marx realized that?

As for no money, how would that work? Any citizen, which would be everyone, would go into any store and take whatever they want? youve seen videos of lootings right? Black friday?

But that can be explained away as merely anxiety and fear and dread and despair of the lack of fairly getting those items? Because those items scarcity, and the scarcity of money,
and people feeling as if they have to sacrifice too much to get those items?

>>38361861
>it is outside pham ngu lao at 2 am on a Saturday,
you can make that same statement about many places in the US.

and your ilks pull string responses
>>proposes a system where everyone starves but starves equally while the invigilators make all the money and live a lavish lifestyle.

well I cant say dont help because, idk... but they are cheap shots.

>>38361887
>Classes are unavoidable. Surely Marx realized that?
Humans have spent the overwhelming majority of their existence without classes. Engels called hunter-gatherer society as "primitive communism". Though personally I'd disagree with Engels on that one.

>As for no money, how would that work? Any citizen, which would be everyone, would go into any store and take whatever they want? youve seen videos of lootings right? Black friday?
You work with your fellow commune members for goods. You can also put in requests online, or at local places that have said goods.

>>38361919
you're so sheltered you have no idea kid. Go back to playing pokemon snap and don't ever post this murderous maniac's picture again. You have no idea.

>>38361951
>Humans have spent the overwhelming majority of their existence without classes.
also without porcelin toilets, plumbing, electricity, airplanes, modern buildings, cars, toothpaste, glass etc.
The differences in abilities (that in turn became savings of monies), desirability, 'cultural tastes', historically has been the natural creation of classes.

Maybe some day everyone can relatively intellectually be on the same wave length, but, this also ties into money, as long as there is differences in the difficulties of work, there will need to be a way to represent that (money) (which over time, creates class distinction)

>>38361989
NOT REA...

>>38362013
>also without porcelin toilets, plumbing, electricity, airplanes, modern buildings, cars, toothpaste, glass etc.
The differences in abilities (that in turn became savings of monies), desirability, 'cultural tastes', historically has been the natural creation of classes.
Those have been the natural creation of inventors, philosophers, and the general working class of whatever epoch we're talking about (whether slaves, peasants, or the proletariat).

>Maybe some day everyone can relatively intellectually be on the same wave length, but, this also ties into money, as long as there is differences in the difficulties of work, there will need to be a way to represent that (money) (which over time, creates class distinction)
Money isn't what creates class. Class in the Marxist sense is defined by your position in relations to the means of production.

>>38360880
>individualism is a meaningless concept

Marx didn't think this. SAGE

>>38362045
>Those have been the natural creation of inventors
yeah, and capitalism is the inventors make an invention, and then reap the benefits as everyone trades 'accumulated value tokens' for the desired invention.

In communism, all inventors would be promised access to as much or more value than they have received in capitalism?

>>38360880
If we don't realize we're suffering is it really suffering ? I'd rather blue pill all my life than trying to achieve a communist utopia that will never come true.

>>38362125
>If we don't realize we're suffering is it really suffering
I guess its about the people that are suffering and are realizing it then

>>38362101
>yeah, and capitalism is the inventors make an invention, and then reap the benefits as everyone trades 'accumulated value tokens' for the desired invention.
The inventors and thinking minds are more often than not being forced into dead end jobs to make ends meet while ending up in a cycle of debt, all the while growing depressed or resorting to drug use to cope with their berated existence in a shitty system that promotes corporate ass-kissing and mindless hard work over ingenuity and free thought.

And if your idea gets on the market, holy fuck good luck to you. Expect for it to be stomped on by far larger competitors which offer even cheaper goods and products which will attract even more customers.

>>38361989
I think capitalism is good and great, maybe perfect, maybe the best, maybe the only, but I do think there are some iffy things about some ways of the world. And I think they may be consequences of capitalism.

So like for instance, welfare was created. How would the world be without welfare? What does government made welfare have to do with capitalism, but it seemed the right thing to do, to naturally move at least in that instance away from pure capitalism, taxes in general, it is seen a common purpose in at least the smallest sense has been necessary.

Capitalism does not benefit the few, capitalism benefits the intelligent, which just so happens to be the few.

>>38362195
>capitalism benefits the intelligent,
the strong, the persistent, and consistent

>>38362195
>>38362232
and some leeches, and cheaters, an easers

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>>38360880
Reminder: Thou art a spook, die.

>>38360880
The humanity is driven by greed without the concept of money the human race would never have been able to develop as much as we did already, we would have been in a constant animalistic state.
Think about it. Without the concept of greed and money everyone would just work the barely minimum and be self sufficient. We would just hunt/harvest for enough ourselves or our peers/family without any additional services. The quality of life wouldn't have changed like it is today. Of course capitalism has flaws but it's what helped us achieve pretty much everything we've done.
Wanting communism is like wanting to freeze our development in time and remain in the same state of development forever. I'd rather try to improve a system with flaws than develop a system which is doomed to fail.

>>38360880
reminder that capitalist economies can still have socialist services and charity is a big part of the ideal behind capitalism

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>>38362286

Nice stirner

>>38362361
Reminder that Scandinavia also has some of the freest markets in the world, despite also having a high degree of taxation and social services. They actually have more market competition than America

Reminder that Marx was a brainlet who got Hegel all wrong

>>38360880
>Be a lazy artist

>Muh communism

>>38361951
>Humans have spent the overwhelming majority of their existence without classes
Yeah, until division of labor became a thing hundreds of years ago

>Engels called hunter-gatherer society as "primitive communism"
this is one of the reasons these societies stayed primitive. Lazy NEETs leeching of those who worked hard made everyone lazy. and the "family mindset" reduced competition and innovation

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>>38360880
i'm right with you OP, show the DRUMPFIES what's what, spread the knowledge comrade!

>>38361443
>never worked a day in his life
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Books_by_Karl_Marx

Nice meme.

Fuck off Karl Marx.

But the digitisation of society effectively cures he underlying strain under capitalism, that of profit. In a post digital society the production of capital(through exchange-value) is no longer directly tied through labor, and as a result it is possible for workers to be effectively compensated for their labor without being exploited by the capitalist class.
To put it another way, Marx didn't anticipate digitisation and OP is a fag.

>>38360880

>provides only two options
>individualism and communism

What about feudalism?

>>38360880
So what ?

hn

>>38360880
>telling you what you already know, acting like it's a piece of genius instead of plain common sense, and trying to charge you for it
Classic jew