Who else here doesn't really think in either of these two

>>38091326
Wow, you sound like you have a very unique way of viewing and thinking about the world. It's no wonder you don't fit in anywhere and have no friends!

I wish you would have visualized this thread before you made it

>>38091326
That's the unconscious mind OP. It's there to do things so you don't have to.

yeah i get what you mean

im pretty sure thats how everyone would think if ypu didnt know words at all and i think like that still and probably most people do. anlot of stuff i think about is in actions and concepts i guess without words

>>38091381
I'm curious because when you see stuff in media like characters having an "internal monologue" and talking to themselves in their heads I never understood that and never realized that thats what some people actually do because it never happened to me.

But likewise I don't think of things visually either most of the time, like when I imagine things/fantasy whatever a lot of the time its like more sensing it there if that makes sense?

>>38091382

I want to know if there are others who think this way and can relate that's all don't be a dick

>>38091388
But even my conscious thoughts are like that, so how can that all be the unconscious mind if its kind of the default mode of cognition for me?

>>38091424
>actions and concepts i guess without words
Yeah like that, it makes it hard to translate then what I'm thinking about into words if I need to explain something, because I myself haven't thought about it in words yet.

But also when I have some cool idea for something I want to draw, I can grasp the "idea" but am shit at visualizing it and transcribing it to paper so I can never quite get down on paper what I imagined in my mind but at the same time I can't visualize it in my mind to satisfy me enough with that. I wish I was a more visual thinker desu

>>38091326

Something like that, yes. Generally I "understand" something before I can articulate myself. Most of the time I can't even communicate what I think (laziness and lack of vocabulary I guess). It's terrible

>>38091535
My vocabulary is actually quite extensive but I find myself having to write out paragraphs and walls of text just to get what I want to explain and share out to others. I would write a shitload more than I needed to on essays and reports in class because thats how it helps to sort of organize my thoughts into something more coherent to communicate more effectively, so the more I write down the clearer some things tend to become even my own understanding of things too and it also leads to instant bursts of new ideas and points to get across but that means it becomes a very jumbled mess usually as its hard for me to find the right words to get my point across in a short few sentences usually even though my vocabulary is suited for it.

>"understand" something before I can articulate myself
Do you also sometimes find yourself having to suppress an inner voice verbalizing your thoughts that you already comprehended and understood without needing to verbalize them? That has been happening to me lately as if I'm thinking slightly more with internal vocalization but its an annoyance it comes after the thought or idea has been fully understood and comprehended in my mind so its a habit I'd like to break.

Pretty sure it came when I first learned that inner monologues are a thing and I tried to give it a go for a while but found it not very effective or worthwhile but some stuff like that habit remain I guess

>>38091326
Yes it's because images and words are mere representations of something more. You just have an immediate grasp of this and don't need either to understand them.

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>>38091739
>You just have an immediate grasp of this

But there are people who don't? What I'm trying to understand is how common is this method of thinking - primarily in concepts/senses/intuitive knowing whatever you would describe it as, compared to primary visual and verbal modes of thinking. But then again I don't know to what extent people even utilize each method, or all of them together. What I do know is that there are a small rare number of people with excellent visual thinking and visual "eidetic memory" thats not common so this leads me to believe that there are certain methods of cognition that are less common than others, and mine might be one of them.

Trying to look up more information on my thinking method has been tough, because its not exactly what I'm looking for, some mention of kinaesthetic thinking/learning style but that seems to be related to learning from hands on experience. Theres also shit about autism and autists not being able to verbalize and shit, but I can verbalize its just that my thinking method - internally is not verbally based, and I can't find much information to read about that itself to learn more.

>>38091863
I don't know how common it is. It could be very common for all I know.

>>38091953
For something that could be so common its surprisingly difficult to find out more about it. Nothing I search for seems to hit the mark.

It doesn't help that its not something easily explained verbally or even visually. For a while I was thinking of how to add the third method of thinking to the OP image but I couldn't figure it out, how do you even visually replicate something that subtle, you can't just add the image of a table because its the full concept that I thought of it and not its image nor the word table, its such a difficult thing to try to explain visually and with words without clarifying and trying to pry into it to come up with some verbal description for it like I did for the OP.

>>38092055
That's because images and words are a form of communication and your method of thinking is not communication but thought itself. You can't just beam your thoughts to other people you have to verbalize/visualize it first. Of course you can also communicate through other things like touch. Point is, what you are describing is something that is independent from communication so putting it into words is difficult and probably even impossible.

Your brain thinks in worldless concepts all the time, that's how thinking works. You never have to use words to actually work stuff out. The verbalization just happens afterwards as a way to maintain the illusion of an actively-thinking consciousness.

>>38092147
>your method of thinking is not communication but thought itself.

Woah, nicely explained anon you find a way to describe it I couldn't but it resonated with me immediately. You're right if we had telepathy it would be something people would be aware of and capable of doing effortlessly but we don't have telepathy so I have to put my thoughts into words that take way too much stuttering and rambling to get the point across and all my interesting ideas/scenarios I want to draw onto paper or tablet but going off more the idea only and not a nice visualization to guide me, its not easy.

>what you are describing is something that is independent from communication so putting it into words is difficult and probably even impossible.
True enough, but with enough words maybe its possible to get people to comprehend the sensation as its possible they may have had moments where their thinking seemed instant, words nor images were not needed and they instantly understood and comprehended a thought without needing to communicate it to themselves further, but maybe that happens more and less often to people depending on circumstances, their primary method of thinking etc..

>>38092291
In a lot of ways the fact that our thoughts and communication are not equivalent is the source of most conflict in the world. If people could understand each other without losing any of the meaning in communcation there would likely be no conflict. The scary part about that is there might not be such a thing as individuals anymore either. It's interesting stuff honestly, I'm sure there are some good books out there about it but I don't really know what.

>>38092235
That makes sense but from what I have researched/experienced it seems there are people who think primarily in words, with constant inner monologues, those who think primarily in pictures/images with little vocalization and those who think primarily in this worldess and imageless way, and I guess those who are in between all three as well.

But I may be wrong, this model of three methods of thinking is that correct? There may be other thinking methods I'm not aware of like if there are those who think primarily auditory but is that not similar to verbal? This is something I don't have much knowledge about so I don't know.

>>38092331
I doubt it, even if we had telepathy and could communicate our intentions/feelings/ideas directly from brain to brain - conflict would still arise, as the intended desires of one group or individual would not meet with those of another, even if they had a method by which to express them with as little "lost in translation" effect as possible. In a way thats just human nature isn't it

>>38092370
I guess you might be right but just imagine if all of your thoughts were hooked together with every other person, even just the people in your family, it would be unlike anything you have ever experienced.

youre all fucking idiots its autism. this is literally a symptom of autism.

>>38092436
I wouldn't like it, I need privacy and space inside my mind in order to explore ideas and scenarios and escape from the world and people when I want to desu, in such a situation privacy would be impossible if telepathic brains were hooked constantly and thoughts floated freely from one to the other, you would lose a sense of individualism

>>38092480
That's what I think, I don't think it's necessarily a good thing even if it solved conflict.

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>learned another language
>can now switch my internal monologue to that language instead of English

It's an abstract feel

>>38092336
Everyone thinks in concepts to begin with. What you're describing aren't models of ways of thinking, but rather ways of organizing thoughts. For instance I come up with thoughts which are instantaneous and instantly comprehended by myself, and I then like to put them into words internally as a kind of clarification. I already fully understand the idea as soon as I have it but I still like to verbalize it.
However one interesting thing I discovered about this subject is that, in cultures in which the language does not contain certain concepts, the population is not able to even to comprehend these concepts internally. For instance there is a jungle tribe called Tououpinambos whose language only counts to five and they are literally unable to understand the notion of having higher numbers. Likewise there are people called Berinmo who don't have separate words for blue and green who are unable to distinguish the two colors, but they have a distinction WITHIN green that separates it into two different colors which we don't have and are unable to conceptualize. Clearly there is a link between language and thinking ability somewhere, but it works in a very roundabout way.

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>>38092473
Yes a symptom, I read that but thats literally the only symptom of autism that I seem to have, the rest are not present, especially the trouble with language and speaking thing which I never had. My vocabulary was at fucking college level or just about in the 9th grade and I could read fast and talk fast if I had good knowledge of a subject.

I also remember being able to speed read like read entire sentences fast without speaking them in my head (subvocalizing) but I seem to have lost that ability somehow. And now I read and subvocalize and it slows my reading down a lot, and its a difficult habit to break

So yeah correlation =/= causation, I guess you can say that people with autism utilize this method of thinking but not everyone who thinks in this way has autism.

>>38092541
The whole internal monologue thing was an abstract feel for me until a few years ago desu

And I'm usually good at abstract thinking but "talking to yourself" thinking was alien as fuck to me. I remember watching some random college humor video where the guy narrates to himself his thoughts and observations during a situation in class and didn't believe that people actually did that, cause thoughts that would lead to that kind of monologue just kinda happen and are processed automatically for me in an instant I guess

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>>38092553
its a symptom of autism to think you don't have autism

t. autistic person

>>38092548
>Tououpinambos whose language only counts to five and they are literally unable to understand the notion of having higher numbers
Neat, but couldn't they just be thinking in base 5 (or 6 if they have a concept of 0) like their 5 would be our 10?

>>38092548
>I already fully understand the idea as soon as I have it but I still like to verbalize it.

Yeah I find this tendency to verbalize it as well but thats a recent thing that happened when I decided to actively do that when learning it was a thing because I thought something was wrong with me because I don't verbalize internally at all. But its kind of a pain to have this thought, and then verbalize it to yourself internally when you suddenly become aware you're doing it because its almost automatic and then you stop mid-way because its not needed. It interferes with a smooth flow of thought and idea generation I feel. When you get an idea and that branches off to another idea and yet another if I have to verbalize each of those offshoots of ideas I find my thinking process slowed down compared to when I can process one and the other and move on and back across all these ideas without needing to verbalize their contents or visualize them even.

>Clearly there is a link between language and thinking ability somewhere

Indeed I've read a little about tribes like that, shows how important language was to our development as a species etc, but I think in my case its like, learning these things like numbers, colors etc and then not needing to verbalize them internally to comprehend them further. So yes language may be needed to get that initial comprehension and understanding but once thats there its not necessary to use language in your mind to comprehend it further because its like instantly understood. I think thats how it is in my case at least.

Tfw dyslexic and often say new words like a spastic unless I've heard someone else say them first. I'm actually really well read its just if I had to read aloud or name people of places with strange names in the books I read I fail because its a never before heard word.

>>38092660
What other symptoms of autism do you have, just curious because theres no indication I ever had it unless I have some mild, high functioning autism or something?

Have had some psychological tests done in the past but none found anything like autism or similar developmental disorders beyond possibly dyscalculia (mathematics dyslexia type meme disorder)

>>38092676
Not him but I read some account of some jungle amazon tribes not being able to comprehend things that are really far away or something, because they live in the jungle and theres no open space there so their comprehension of open space and far away things on open spaces is limited, and they dont see something in the distance getting closer or farther but bigger and smaller, something similar like that, dont remember it exactly.

>>38092756
I love reading stuff like this. It's a shame we can't experiment on humans to learn more about how we work.

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>>38092723
listen, i'm very autistic and so are you. Its incredibly hard to realize it because you are physically wired missing some form of overarching perspective because your perception of the world is built from the ground up.

>>38092946
Thats not enough evidence to convince me, especially since I've had psychological tests of some sort or other done and they found nothing like that.

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I think in those two ways and others. It all depends on the subject.

When I'm making calculations, I'm imagining written operations. Adding, subtracting, multiplying: all as I'd write down.
When thinking of someone or somewhere, there's image, perhaps smell or even touch. When thinking about music, there's sound.
And finally, there are things that are just "felt". Some study related questions just feel wrong or right, most likely as I already rationalized them before.

Writing this post, I did minor and fast planning on examples, but didn't visualize the whole complete post until it was done. The second "paragraph", if I can call it that, crossed my mind as "examples: visualizing numbers/words; visualizing image/ambience; thinking without visualizing".

I believe the body/brain starts doing things by itself after we rationalized enough, as if it mimic'd your counscious mind. Like when you're understanding how to move your legs as a baby and now you don't even pay mind to that as an adult: the inbuilt AI in the body goes "leave it to me, I saw you do it, I'll do it for you".

>>38093043
i'm not going to try to convince you

because I can tell you that what you consider valid proof is a sign you will likely never realize how things actually are. neither will you understand the fuller extent of what I mean.

I don't mean it as a mean thing. its just how our brains work; its a perspective thing rather than a intelligence thing

>>38093210
Interesting, thanks for the detailed description

I can identify most with "things that are "felt" I don't have a good visualization ability, so I can't keep any image stable in my head for a long enough period of time to perform any "mental math" as you described it in that first sentence. Though I have a strong sense of smell I oddly have difficulty imagining smells, images are rarely vivid, and I don't really utilize them without first thinking to do so usually, never anything stable and present for a long time. But I can imagine music yeah, and hear it in my head and such as well, I think most people can. Touch - like smell rarely factors into my thinking.

"Feeling it" seems to be the right term in this case for my method of thinking, like when I'm bored imaging a scenario around me like a battle I struggle visualizing it, and I'm not narrating it in my head I'm like sensing it happening around me kind of projecting it. Or imagining being with a qt girl pinning me down I'm not visualizing it but feeling or sensing it but without a sense of touch so to speak, if that makes sense

Heres an example that just happened I want to go get a glass of cold water, I neither thought that to myself with words nor had an image of water appear but just kind of processed the thought instantly and instantly got up to get what I wanted knowing what I wanted but without verbalizing it or visualizing it. If that example makes sense.

>>38093287
I disagree, with more information to shed light on my experiences/thinking method it might provide a valuable insight and may be correct or it may be a dead end that does not at all apply to my experience and thinking in which case it further helps to define and refine my own meta-cognition.

>its a perspective thing rather than a intelligence thing
You speak as if I can only comprehend one perspective or something and can't see things in different perspective but you'd be surprised.

Whatever anon do as you wish, I think this back and forth without the exchange of the information I'm asking for is utterly pointless though, I dont understand why you won't just give me an example or few so I can have a better grasp of your claim that its autism.

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>>38093471
Nevertheless, it's interesting how everyone can have strong visualization while sleeping. Perhaps the lack of attention to external things frees the mind to vividly build a world, full with sensorial details, a story and so on.

Maybe the "talent" in different skills people have are related to ways of imagining. Knowing some visual artists and having had the hobby of drawing a lot in older times, I know that visualization plays a big part in it. Some people are so skilled at it that they can "see" the drawing on the paper and cover it, only making minor adjustments.

That notion contributes to what many geniuses explain about their skill. Some have such alien ways of thinking that it's hard to comprehend, and, still, they can make a lot. Mathematicians picturing shapes and colors and pulling convoluted calculations, for example. Read about synesthesia, if you want details. I've had contact with a musician that had some weird picturing of the notes in his instrument, somehow relating sounds to spaces in grid.

>>38091664
>I find myself having to write out paragraphs and walls of text just to get what I want to explain
wow so meta xD

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>>38091326
Here is what you said but less dumb
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/dualism/#SubDua

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>High intelligence.
>Tend to extrapolate upon abstractions to a pretty unreasonable degree.

Good at chess at least.

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>>38093556
it hurts me in rather profound way to think that generally i'm as oblivious as your being right now

>>38093755
Yeah well I dont have any of that, I like to draw as a way to bring my ideas into life because I cant visualize them well enough in my head but I suck at drawing. If I had to describe my "way of imagining" it would be in the form of generating ideas and branches off those ideas and kind of comprehending them in their whole but being unable to focus on individual parts as much, or when I focus on one individual element I lose the whole, that applies to when I try to visualize as well.

In a way its more fun to just think of different ideas than drawing or writing them out because I can kind of add on to them quicker, explore alternatives, different branching related ideas and concepts but this leads to a terrible inability to imagine and write dialogue, like people and characters interacting, not my strong suit at all, and drawing characters and people is though, settings and enviornments and objects are easier.

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>>38093556
I skimmed this thread and you genuinely have autism, anon. It's either that or you're fourteen and are just starting to be able to grapple with complex abstract concepts. Pick one.

Also you look like a tool. Stop posting.

>>38093967
I think you've misunderstood me entirely, or maybe you are seeing it from your perspective but fail to see it from mine
>you think it be like it is but it don't

>>38094120
>haha I'm just pretending to be this awkward and weird

Hang it up.

>>38094113
>complex abstract concepts

No I never had any problems with those, like I said I'm good at thinking in the abstract. I think you've misunderstood me too, its not like this is the first time I always seem to be misunderstood no matter what I post about. Didn't I say it takes me writing several walls of text before I can refine and pinpoint the point I'm trying to make. I geniunely have a difficulty getting my thoughts into words but again I dont think thats autism.

You're another person who spouts muh autism buzzword without providing any further example or reason as to why, simply calling everything and everyone autism does not make it true, its a simplistic method of assuming you know what you're talking about using the latest buzzword - dilluting the meaning of the original, as it happens with all buzzwords adopted by this site and spammed to death

>>38094159
>awkward and weird = autism

Its not that simple anon, once again you're projecting your own beliefs and experience onto mine I think and its flat out wrong, once again you fail to provide any example even of how what you state can be true.

>>38093953
>extrapolate upon abstractions
What do you mean?

>>38094236
im a different anon
your clearly autistic based on your response

other anons observing feel free to chime in

>>38094308
Thats not enough relavant criteria to judge a person by for such a disorder, also like I already mentioned I had psych tests/evals done during High school that found no such evidence either.

I'm not convinced.

>>38094382
Random bystander chiming in.
The autism drips from your manner of communicating so profusely that it hurts my heart. If there was an autism gland, you would probably need to have that gland medically suppressed.

>>38094581
>manner of communicating

Such as?

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>>38091326
>When Devons about to get the table.

>>38094611
The long, rambling, and self-important speech is a big tip-off for mild autism. I worked at a boy scout camp for a few years, and thus needed to communicate with more autistic kids than you'd expect. The number one unifyi g characteristic among these guys was that they all rambled, they all took *way* too many words to get their point across, and they all tend to blame misunderstandings on the listener rather than the speaker.

Additionally, they all seemed to hold the mistaken belief that their manner of perceiving the world was totally unique and noteworthy. (This wasn't relevant to merit badge classes, but they insisted on talking about it, because autism, and who am I to deny them friendly conversation?) Basicall, they'd describe it for a couple minutes, and at first I'd be interested and think "wow, this kid is onto something, that's so weird and different" but then he'd keep going and I'd eventually come to realize that he just sucked at articulating his personal experiences, which weren't that unusual.

>>38094611
you should be screen-capped as a educational case-study for other Autists to learn from

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>this thread
my brain hurts

>>38094847
>self-important speech
>their manner of percieving the world was unique and noteworthy

Where is there any elements of that in my posts? I never once said nor implied this shit, I made this thread asking for others to share their views and experiences because I couldn't find much information on my own and was geniunely curious if many others could relate to this as well.

If you percieved the posts to be long winded and rambling well thats just my writing style, theres a need to convey as much information as possible in order to not allow for misinformation and misunderstanding, plus as I said it helps me develop my argument/point by forcing the thoughts I can't verbalize down into verbal form. Don't think that this means that thats how I go about speaking in real life though, because I have social anxiety so I dont like to say much more than I really need to to people.

Furthermore this is a geniunely difficult phenomenon to articulate because its my default and primary method of cognition yet I can't find shit about it online or in books describing it and how it functions, sure its related to the subconcious processing of thoughts but theres very little written about it compared to how much is written and documented about verbal and visual methods of thinking. I'm not saying it is unique and noteworthy and that I'm a speshul snowflake, if that was your impression then its outright false, I'm just trying to get a clearer picture about this shit and develop a better understanding by asking other anons on here their experiences and to share their insights into their own meta-cognition because I have no one else to ask.

>>38094849
You should be screen capped as yet another example of a buzzword abused to the point it becomes meaningless.

Yes, I have autism

>>38095090
t.edgy autist

>>38095174
Case in point.

Originananlo

>>38095203
is literally making a fool of yourself another symptom?

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>>38095332
I don't think you're qualified enough to diagnose autism over the internet desu

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>mfw I check on this thread 30 minutes after leaving it and OP is still insisting he's not autistic and everybody is wrong

>>38091326
that is how I constantly think I rarely visualize things because most of the time I do not have to

>>38095395
Yeah I'm insisting that the buzzword spouting retards are wrong. "Everybody" in this case are those who've only skimmed the thread and misunderstood what was being said or lack the reading comprehension or attention spans to read a post more than 30 words.

Its funny, still no one has said what exactly they think about my posts shows signs of autism, and those that did have shown they misunderstood the content of the posts. One or two retards spouting muh autism buzzword and more joining in because they are meme spouting fucks does not give any more credence to the claim.

Just browsing /r9k/ these past 2 hours I've seen "autism" thrown around like the word faggot, meaningless and applied to everything, spouted by retards hooked onto the latest meme buzzword unaware even of what autism actually is, but hurr "everyones saying it so lets me say it too"

Fucking retards.

>>38095695
look at this guy and laugh

>>38095780
>t. autist

Originalautist.

>>38091326
When I try to verbalise my thoughts, im already thinking of the next thing before I've mentally said the sentence.

>>38092331
I've watched enough evangelion to know that attempting absolute unadulterated communication is a bad idea

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>>38091326
Idk op I'm pretty much the same

>>38091326
I think this is actually pretty common but normies don't like to admit it because it makes them seem less unique.

>>38091326
I'm pretty sure this is how everyone thinks, just that they have a compulsion to vocalize it.
That's how I am, anyway.

>>38092541
Welcome to the world of every European. Or any bilingual, for that matter.

>>38095695
Just the fact you're on r9k, it screams signs of an autistic brain.