When did you truly understand success is something mostly privileged

Success is more satisfying, rewarding, and just overall better if you are at all time odds. You feel more victorious then just being handed success on a silver plate.

If you're a person like that, sure it feels good for awhile, but then it begins to feel hollow and empty as it keeps happening.

Never, because it's not true. When did you understand that being a failure in life is your own doing?

>>38077076
Dude try doing stock market or start abusiness or someshit

>>38077076
Ive been looking for that reaction pic for years, that shit is so old jesus... Also I was privileged and fucked everything up anyway. I was given everything but I never really learned what I needed to do so it was all kinda useless in the end.

>>38077076
Just git gud bro
You have nobody to blame but yourself for not kicking ass early in life and choosing the loser NEET path.
Look at people like Vitalik Buterin, he's basically an autistic skellyman and he's successful as fuck. You literally can be a successful robot but you decided not to be one. Instead you blame Chad (who by the way is also a poorfag wagecuck) for your shortcomings. The system is rigged against people like you but you suck for not beating the system.
In short you just need to git gud

I think I knew this on some level all along, anyone who's seen a few movies or had a reasonable education and knows anything about history or the world understands this. I'm not sure that it can be more 'truly' understood, though - it's a pretty abstract thing, you can only experience the ways in which you as an individual are held back and oppressed.

I haven't met them, but guys who kill other men to defend roasties (ie army conscripts or willing soldiers) are the most to be despised. They literally died for cuckoldry.

The people I have the most sympathy for are people like myself - more sensitive male types who end up being ground up by the system.

The cruel reality next to every success story is that for every rags to riches millionaire there are tens and hundreds of thousands dying in a poor ditch.
One in six enterprises survive the first three years, some people are trying their whole life becoming rich. Even the most successful stock traders have a chance of 56% to predict a call/put situation.

>>38078383
And how many smart people are still getting fucked by the system?
Okay so we're talking about Buterin, we're talking about cryptocurrency. If nobody bought into this fad their creators and creators of rival currencies would still sit in their basements trying to write malware programs.

>>38077076
>hurr durr success is luck

No it's hard work you moron

>>38078846
>success is hard work
>when you have an IQ of 120 to enter an Ivy league for your STEM degree
>and your parents can afford to send you there
>and you have good connections to get a well paid job
>or you have other marketable skills like being exemptionally good at stock markets

You can have all the drive and willpower in the world, if you're dumb as a rock you'll never pass a college. Higher education gives you a head start for success. Do you think Mark Zuckerberg or Bill Gates are worth billions because they worked so hard?
They were smart, they were ambitious, they were lucky. When those three things come together you're successful.

>>38078940
IQ can be increased by reading, writing and practicing maths

In the UK low income households get extra money for their maintenance loan. I'm not sure how this works in your country.

You can make good connections yourself. Many do.

You don't get good at stock market skills through luck, it's hard work.

>Mark Zuckerberg or Bill Gates are worth billions because they worked so hard?
Yes this is exactly what I'm implying

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>>38078846
>No it's hard work you moron
Well he's right to an extent at least. The most successful people were generally born under the perfect conditions at the right time. Bill Gates has said he was "extremely lucky" and it's apparent when you learn about his upbringing. How many other kids got to practice for thousands of hours programming? Almost none. Getting access to a computer was hard enough back then. Being successful does involve luck

>>38079223

Not him but both Bill Gates and Steve Jobs came from similar backgrounds - they were both from upper-middle class parents (adoptive in the case of Jobs). This in itself is significant. They were also among something like the 1% of people in the US (alone, think about on a global scale) to own and have access to the simpler computers that existed back then, at the time they were teenagers\young adults. The 'garages' they were able to work out of in both cases were at parents' homes when they were in their 20's - many young adults don't even have a spare room, many wouldn't get the support to try out such a thing.

Those are just a handful of factors I can name off the top of my head, and there are many many more. Also your feelgood mentality of "you can make connections" or "you can increase IQ" often don't reach many people... if you've been raised in an environment since you were a kid where you got literally zero silent time on your own because your single mother always had the TV blaring or people over, and where you haven't developed the ability to concentrate and read, let alone read well by a certain age, you're already falling behind others.

>>38079596
>Not him but both Bill Gates and Steve Jobs came from similar backgrounds - they were both from upper-middle class parents (adoptive in the case of Jobs). This in itself is significant. They were also among something like the 1% of people in the US (alone, think about on a global scale) to own and have access to the simpler computers that existed back then, at the time they were teenagers\young adults. The 'garages' they were able to work out of in both cases were at parents' homes when they were in their 20's - many young adults don't even have a spare room, many wouldn't get the support to try out such a thing.

Okay, this doesn't change the fact that they worked harder than all those who did have access to computers.

>feelgood mentality

It's not a feel good mentality, it's the opposite. It's the world is full of lazy shit heads who complain mentality.

>if you've been raised in an environment since you were a kid where you got literally zero silent time on your own because your single mother always had the TV blaring or people over, and where you haven't developed the ability to concentrate and read, let alone read well by a certain age, you're already falling behind others.

Libraries and schools.

>>38079733
>Okay, this doesn't change the fact that they worked harder than all those who did have access to computers.
And it also means that hard work was useless for people who didn't have them.

Hard work is necessary to succeed, but it's not enough.

>>38079733

>Okay, this doesn't change the fact that they worked harder than all those who did have access to computers.

You have literally no evidence that they worked harder than all those who did have access to computers. Have you ever read anything about Apple and Microsoft early on? Or seen the movies\documentaries about it? A huge factor in their success was luck. Nobody is denying that Gates and Jobs were driven (in fact the OP mentions this), but you don't hear as much about the driven men who ended up failing or losing everything, or just ending up mediocre.

>It's not a feel good mentality, it's the opposite.
>It's the world is full of lazy shit heads who complain mentality.

So you admit that the world is full of people who have a 'complainer' mentality, right? Do you understand that a young man being raised surrounded by people like that ends up internalising that sense of hopelessness? That a lot of the more functional, happy people are functional and happy because they weren't cut down. What you're arguing is practically mysticism, you're like Rhonda Byrne.

>Libraries and schools.

What if you're a kid in a country where the nearest school is miles away? What if you're a kid and your parent doesn't send you to school and nobody intervenes? You think someone raised in the situation I mentioned in my last comment can just spend a few hours in the school library every day and somehow unlearn and overcome all the focus-destroying forces in his day to day life? Or someone who's failed to learn to read because of lack of interest, can somehow teach himself during the lunch hour?

>>38079733
>they worked harder than all those who did have access to computers.
Yeah. Unfortunately, not too many people had constant, free access to computers like Gates did. It was a new field. He was very LUCKY and everything just fell into place perfectly. If he was not born when he was in the family he was born into, he probably would have done something else. When he dropped out, he had thousands of hours of programming exp, which was unheard of. The people who had that much access also worked hard, and became successful in their own right

>born to a very poor, abusive parents
>had two mentally ill siblings that I had to raise while my parents drank and did drugs and were complete fucking degenerates
>barking dogs night and day all throughout my childhood
>was still incredibly good at school, perfect student, put everything I had into my studies
>parents pulled me out of school in the 6th grade
>had to teach myself literally everything that I know from from middle-school on
>somehow, some way, managed to have the drive and focus to graduate at 16, get myself a job, get myself a car, get out of that hellhole
>the damage was done
>I'm also mentally ill and tl;dr it ruined my entire youth for me
>I'm now 25 and have been working for over a decade with only $800 in savings
>recently was rear-ended and lost my car
>had to go to the hospital recently and I have no health insurance thanks to the Healthcare Marketplace being the biggest piece of shit ever spawned
>have been trying to go back to school for years and I can never save up enough money to get in the door, to get scholarships, to get any sort of financial aid

No matter which way I apply I always need to come up with at least a few thousand dollars for initial cost of tuition, books, and travel expenses to go to the closest campus. I'm working a decent job right now that pays well, but every single time I get decent savings some horrible event happens that sucks away all of my hard-earned money for school. None of my family can help me financially, and I have no connections that would be able to elevate me to a better social position. I've worked my way up in my office job to a decent position but since it's a small company there's nothing there for me to move to a better place right now. I need to get out of this slump and it feels like fate is pitted against me.

Fuck this gay earth.

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>>38077076
I try not to dwell too much on it because it's a statistical inevitability that the majority are failures, including me. I accept my role of being the bottom layer of society.

>>38079840
>>38079852
>>38079873
Jesus Christ why are you retards fixating on the success of two billionaires. Of fucking course not everyone can become a billionaire but this is hardly what constitutes success in the average persons mind, as their standards are much lower.

The success I'm referring to is about being fufilled in life through work, family hobbies, etc.

Your whole >hurr durr but not everyone can become a billionaire like Bill Gates
is literally fucking retarded

Like Jackie Chan says "Don't try to be like Jackie. There is only one Jackie. Study computers instead."


>And it also means that hard work was useless for people who didn't have them.

>Hard work is necessary to succeed, but it's not enough.

No, it means the other people ended up having good jobs, just not being fucking billionaires.

>You have literally no evidence that they worked harder than all those who did have access to computers.

You stupid fucking retard. My evidence is that they are the successful ones and therefore worked harder. The way in which you try to right off these peoples hard work as luck is fucking disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

>So you admit that the world is full of people who have a 'complainer' mentality, right?

Yes, lazy fucks.

>Do you understand that a young man being raised surrounded by people like that ends up internalising that sense of hopelessness?

Do you understand that you're trying to blame someones laziness on the fact that he's surrounded by other lazy people. You are a retarded fucking sheeple idiot. This is akin to saying "I only killed those Jews because everyone around me was doing it as well".

>What you're arguing is practically mysticism, you're like Rhonda Byrne.

No what I'm arguing is called will and is recognized by many great philsophers like Nietzsche, Schopenhauer, Kant, etc.

cont

>>38079852
>What if you're a kid in a country where the nearest school is miles away?

Then you live in a 3rd world shithole and your best bet for success is becoming a farmer or something. Instead of a criminal who says, oh those farmers were just lucky.

>What if you're a kid and your parent doesn't send you to school and nobody intervenes?

This is illegal due to the right to education almost everyone is 1st world countries has an education. What you are arguing is a very obscure problem that the vast majority of people do not face.

>school library every day and somehow unlearn and overcome all the focus-destroying forces in his day to day life?

Yes this is EXACTLY what I'm implying you fucking retard.

>lack of interest

You mean lazy

>can somehow teach himself during the lunch hour?

Yes, if he decides to stop being lazy.

>>38080052
Prove it or I'm going to assume you're lying.

>>38080143
>but this is hardly what constitutes success in the average persons mind, as their standards are much lower.
Why should our standards be much lower? Just because we didn't get as lucky?

>No, it means the other people ended up having good jobs, just not being fucking billionaires.
Which is a failure.

>>38080143
>>38080191

>Jesus Christ why are you retards fixating on the success of two billionaires.

You were the one who raised them, at least - I was only responding originally to someone who raised those names. That was the thread of conversation.

>...The way in which you try to right off these peoples hard work as luck is fucking disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

The expression is 'write off'.

I'm not going to bother responding to you again, because you're just loud and obnoxious, and apparently oblivious other people's circumstances. You have nothing of value to say, you're just ruining this thread with your ignorance. You took two large comments just to say "naaa naaa people fail because they're lazy!", you're intellectually lazy. Goodnight.

>>38077076
>When did you truly understand success is something mostly privileged people can attain
I don't believe this. Some people are super unlucky, but that doesn't make normal people "privileged"

>>38080229
What do you want me to do, post my thrown away medical bracelet from the hospital, or the papers from the insurance company of the dude that wrecked my car? Do you need my diagnosis from my psychiatrist and psychologist, or my brother's death certificate from when he killed himself? What the fuck?

>>38080191
Ah fuck off retard you're obviously just a poor fuck projecting his insecurities by kissing rich people's ass

>>38080234
>Why should our standards be much lower? Just because we didn't get as lucky?

You're going to bitch and cry because you're not a billionaire. Fuck off you wank stain.

>Which is a failure.
Klokov never won his gold but he's hardly a failure. Go fuck yourself you lazy shithead.


>>38080237
Fuck off shithead. I'd fucking smash your face in if we fought in real life.

I'd have to say, this is both true and untrue.
I know very well that rich people have the ability to give a better education to their children and secure them better living conditions that will set them in a good start for the rest of their life.

But I can also assure, from personal experience at least that things are not as simple: I had the same treatment as my brother did, and he ended up a sloppy mess who can't even save enough money at the end of the month while I got into a prestigious school. So even with good conditions, you can still fail.

And people can also get out of poverty, especially in 1st world country, where the right mind can get you pretty far.

My father, who's now 2nd in a large banking company, was homeless at 16 and had no money whatsoever. My mother was raised with a violent alcoholic father, and her mod died at a young age. So needless to say, things are not locked for you, even if you get unlucky.

I'll also concede that the economic situation today is probably worse in that regard, but still I'm certain that it's more about having the right mindset. Sure having a strong family and the right genes help, but if you don't know how to use them, you're as lost as anybody else.

>>38080143
>Jesus Christ why are you retards fixating on the success of two billionaires.

Because another anon brought them up and you're making it seem as if "hard work" is some magical thing that made them who they are without addressing the luck involved. This whole shitshow is about the success of Bill Gates

>>38080281
>parents raped me daily since the age of 6 for 7 years straight
>have 7 retarded siblings I have to care for
>The school teaching tortured me so I had to leave
>still got good grades
>got some savings
>but a plane crashed into my house

Man lifes been hard for me.

>>38077076

you never really know any of these things until you try

>>38080320
>You're going to bitch and cry because you're not a billionaire. Fuck off you wank stain.
Yeah I am. I'm not gonna pretend hard work is relevant when the most important thing is starting point and luck.

Anyone can work hard. That makes it so irrelevant. The thing that separates the losers from the winners are the other conditions (starting point, luck). Which are completely out of my control.

I learned at a young age op. Getting beat over the head and choked by your psycho mom will fuck you up mentally.

>>38080349
No it isn't. OP never even mentioned a name. Fuck you suck my dick you cuck stain.

>>38080291
Bitch I got money suck my cock.

>>38077540
> stock market
You'll have to trade several years to start grasping tge basics. Then and only then you will MAYBE start having profits.

>>38080382
You haven't worked hard a day in your life, cry more you little pussy bitch.

>>38080410
You're wrong. That's actually the only thing you normies can say. You just start insulting me personally without addressing my points. You know how this fallacy is called?

>>38078940
Both Gates and Zuckerberg are college dropouts.

>>38080363
>he wants people to not post anecdotes relevant to the thread
>he expects everyone on 4chan to have a believable story
>he believes ANYTHING he reads on 4chan
but please, continue shitposting

>>38080424
You didn't address my reference to Klokov not winning gold in olympic and your comment hardly constitutes an argument. Suck my dick and cry whilst you do it cuck bitch boi.

>>38080446

They both dropped out of HARVARD UNIVERSITY.

>>38080331
What everyone is forgetting here is that this "mindset" is not something that can simply be acquired. It is determined by external conditioning and internal factors - the stuff that is decided by your genes.

That is why it is so hard for people at different levels of success to understand one another's predicament. There minds are quantifiably different.

>>38080505
>What everyone is forgetting here is that this "mindset" is not something that can simply be acquired. It is determined by external conditioning and internal factors - the stuff that is decided by your genes.

Holy hell you're retarded.

>>38080446

Gates took 'leave' from Harvard and he's said himself that they were very good about letting people return. During his leave from Harvard he says that his parents were financially backing him a lot, just as they'd paid his tuition.

Just hard work I guess.

Doesn't matter free will is an illusion no one deserves praise or condemnation for anything. The number one predictor of whether a judge will grant parole, for example, is how long it has been since he/she last ate. Entire lives are based on the physics of our biologies. It's all worthless.

>>38080525
Alright dude.
Do you have a better explanation?

>>38080492
Yeah so I didn't get a reference.

Also you can insult me all you want, but you're wrong. Simple as that :]

>>38080545
>his parents were financially backing him a lot, just as they'd paid his tuition.
I'd sell my fucking house to help my child if he ended up going to fucking harvard.

>>38080505
I forgot to mention that indeed in my post, even though I wanted to.
This mindset is, at least, in my personal experience, mostly acquired through your acquaintances, so either your family or your friends.
I don't think genes have anything to do with it, but I'd agree that the social environment you are born in plays a great deal in that.

This is another reason why I don't believe everything is set in stone as far as success go: if you meet the right people, do the right choices, you can easily get yourself out of a very bad situation. A good teacher, who knows how to bring the best in a student, can do wonders.

But then the real issue is not being able to see what is right to do: since most of these important choices are done at a fairly young age, with very little experience, it is easier to fail.

But genes themselves...not convinced.

>>38080548
Yeah, you are pampered.

>>38080548
Who says that it is all "worthless?"
There is just no free will.
Free will is just a lisence for assholes to be assholes and for op to feel insecure.
Let's just learn to be comfortable with a materialistic understanding of life.

>>38080548
You had the free will to make that post. And I have the free will to call you a gay

>>38080563
Yeh, hard work through conecentration of will power.

When you have the option to play a videogame or do the work that needs to be done, you're making a CHOICE. A strong will power helps you make the choice you want to make.

FOr example when there is an alcoholic, many with strong will power are capable of quitting. The ones who can't quit and drink themselves to death have weak will powers.

It's all a choice, aka free will.

If free will is an illusion then you have to admit that nobody is is responsible for anyhting you do and nothing can be done to change anything. AKA you are buying into the bullshit of your life being predetermined, which it isn't You can fucking change it through choices that you make daily.

The fact you retards don't understand this tells me you're all retarded.

>>38080401
Dude just invest in index funds lmao

>>38080582

>I'd sell my fucking house to help my child if he ended up going to fucking harvard.

You're missing the point. As a white male who wouldn't have qualified for affirmative action, to get into Harvard in the first place he had to be from a wealthy background with the stability to get extremely good grades, and he probably needed contacts and references, and even then there might have been a degree of luck getting into Harvard. He did in fact go to an elite prep school. His going to Harvard is a function of the privilege he was born into. The fact that his parents were able to pay for the expensive fees also suggests a lot about his life and privilege in general.

>>38080690
I can't find evidence but I'm certain at least one poor person has gone to harvard.

>>38080495
Which means they were already good enough for their projects before the enrollment.

>>38080584
Why would a mindset be independent of other faculties (such as sight or hearing), which are definitely determined by internal / external factors?

There are already studies out there that show how certain decisions are made sub-consciously, without input from the conscious individual.

Come on op, once you reject free will.
You will be free to accept any twist and turn of life.

>>38080757

I believe you. I'm sure Harvard has special admission for many poor people, but Bill Gates wasn't one of them.

>>38080759

That's possible, although I think in both cases Gates and Zuck have said that their time at university taught them a lot. You're only supporting my case, that both were extremely privileged relative to other people. Once again, most privileged people don't end up as rich as them. Many under-privileged people go on to succeed. That doesn't mean that the material forces of the world aren't real. It doesn't change the fact that success in anything is determined by forces beyond the control of the individual. Even if you have the most positive mentality in the world, you can fail. Many people are genuinely trapped by these forces, many people die in poverty having tried their whole lives to escape it.

>>38080825
Why would sight of hearing affect how you think?
Does that mean that all blind people think exactly the same way?
It's honestly absurd at this point...
The trait of being hardworking is not dependent on the senses, nobody has ever said that. What it's really about is education, and education is determined by the social context you are in.

And I'm not getting into the free will argument, which is completely irrelevant.

Inspite of the determined nature of life, responsibility does exist.
If I knocked over a glass of milk I certainly am guilty of staining the carpet.
I would have been the actor in that situation. However, since that decision was going to happen, the carpet was going to be stained, there is no use crying over spilled milk.

I still try to do what is right, and still avoid things that are painful / shameful. However, I don't get all butt hurt when things go wrong.
I invite op to do the same.

>>38080961
''Things going wrong'' being...?

>>38080901
Nah dude,
It is precisely what is missing in this conversation. The point I was trying to make is that you cannot blame a blind person for their blindness or a deaf person for their deafness.
Since someone's mindset is a another faculty, one that is connected with one's mind and is thus determined by genetics / external factors, why would you blame someone for lacking the mindset needed to be successful in life?

I candidate I voted for loses an election, flip-flops break while out on a walk, father dies young. I am taking about misfortunes of all shapes and sizes.

>>38080961
Our universe is not determined. Anything quantum-related is probabilistic.

>>38081094
>flip-flops break while out on a walk, father dies young

Finish your haiku

>>38081046
The mindset doesn't have anything to do with genetics. Otherwise, how could explain that a group, seemingly heterogeneous, ends up having a similar mindset and living in similar conditions, as it is often the case in poorer areas?
Besides, two siblings, genetically similar, can end up having very different paths. How to explain that if genetics are the sole, or even main, factor?

What you say doesn't seem based on reality or observations, but rather hypothetical.
It seems far more likely that the education, or lack of it, a person receives is the main factor in its success.