Can you prove to me that God exists? Christians BTFO you might

>>38042027
what matters is how it makes you feel
religious people are always happier, they have gfs, wives, big families, social life and friends
it doesn't matter at all when you are fullfilled.

Lack of proof doesn't mean something is false, though. Like, we can't prove most deep sea organisms or aliens exist but we know there has to be more than what we know now. I think religion is stupid but being agnostic is less edgy than a full on atheist.

>>38042027
pretty bad argument that every religion will respond to in the same way.I know this is low quality bait but at least try to post something worth discussing.
>>38042051
saying religious people are always happier is a pretty bold claim that seems hard to back up. There are tons of religious virgins,homeless people(that are looked down upon by their religious peers even though you are supposed to love everyone),shut ins, etc. that wouldn't fit what you mean. Nothing about religion is more fulfilling than just following your own moral compass. It seems to me that religion is just a way to control the masses, stopping them from committing crimes and getting them to follow whatever rules a "higher power" wants them to in exchange for a promise of something nobody can disprove.

>>38042119

>Lack of proof doesn't mean something is false, though. Like, we can't prove most deep sea organisms or aliens exist but we know there has to be more than what we know now

Then you might as well believe in the Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny then, HAHA. You FAGGOT.

>>38042027
>>38042210
i'm an atheist myself and you are embarrassing.
discussing religion is always retarded because the people you're discussing with are using emotions only so they bring you down to their level and win
stop giving a fuck about retarded people and live your life.

>>38042027

Read this link, it's all there.

>> accordingtothescriptures.org/prophecy/353prophecies
>> >>>/pol/128677933

>>38042332
>>38042358

I don't see any arguments here. Let alone any convincing ones. Give me proof that God FUCKING exists. Right now. Leave social context out of it.

God is incomrehencible by Bible. Look Romans 11:33 and Isaiah 40:28. Therefore, seeking a proof of God's (in)existence is both heretical from the point of Christianity and pointless from the point of science because of Popper's falsifiability criterion. Now go back to /r/auti... /r/atheism where you belong.

>>38042027
Why do people care if their is a god, what kind of faggot would actually worship someone who created the hell we have here?

>>38042385

> link 353 messianic prophecies written centuries before Christ's birth, fulfilled by Christ, an uneducated carpenter who wouldn't have known of the prophecies of he wasn't supernatural in nature.
> it isn't an argument

>> http://religionnews.com/2017/05/11/five-rational-arguments-why-god-very-probably-exists/

>>38042422
Oh, and before you start, I'm an atheist myself. And you, OP, are a faggot.

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>>38042422

>and pointless from the point of science because of Popper's falsifiability criterion. Now go back to /r/auti... /r/atheism where you belong.

Can you help me find where your arguments are? LMAO you even admitted you can't prove God exists GTFO out of here you little christDINDU.

>>38042449

Those aren't arguments sorry they're taken from the very book your religion is based on now if you gave me scientific evidence that would be another story you stupid christfaggot.

>>38042449
>my book proves the truth of my book

Circular logic, into the trash it goes

The atheism meme needs to die. We get it. Now tip your last fedora and pick up a bible you degenerates.

>>38042027
there is no need to argue. We will simply murder all the atheists

>>38042027

I'm not a christcuck, but what about consciousness? If we don't have a soul, if we aren't anything beyond our physical bodies, our consciousness is just the result of billions upon billions electrical synapses and chemical reactions interacting with one another in a lump of grey matter, and any kind of purpose we can derive from our material reality is inherently objective, arbitrary, and fundamentally meaningless.

>>38042027
you faggot. ppl believe in god cuz it helps them in their life and if it doesnt hurt anyone why not?

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>>38042027
I don't usually like trying to prove God exists since it put's God on trial and doesn't honour him as well as only prove a God and not the Christian God. But I usually use this argument and see people's opinion:

>Think of it this way. Imagine there was a door that needed to be open before you could enter a room. But before you could enter it you had to ask the person behind you, may I open this door? Then before that person could give you a response, he had to ask the person behind him if he has permission to allow you to allow the other person in front of him to open the door. Now imagine this went on for an eternity, would the first person ever be able to open the door?

>Now I say the same for the universe if there always had to be a cause would there ever be a time when anything in creation could have been created? There had to be an uncaused first cause to swing that door open without permission, and I believe that it was God who swung that door and opened the gates to this realm of reality.

Thoughts?

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No one can prove he exists and it doesn't really matter to religions. It's faith that drives them, not God.

>>38042560
> our consciousness is just the result of billions upon billions electrical synapses and chemical reactions interacting with one another in a lump of grey matter
Hit someone's head hard enough and their consciousness would change. Therefore, it is a product of brain.

>>38042703
>It's faith that drives them, not God.
Faith is a gift from god.

if there was proof that God did/did not exist, you would have heard it by now, wouldn't you?
so why ask faggot?

>>38042482
>>38042493

The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter. Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.

The Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.

And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents.

Water... colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You'll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:

It has wide margin between its boiling point and freezing point. Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees.

> cont.

>>38042740

Water is also chemically neutral. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body.

Water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees.

Water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter.

Ninety-seven percent of the Earth's water is in the oceans. But on our Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and then distributes that water throughout the globe. Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people. It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water.

The human brain simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard. Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands.

The human brain processes more than a million messages a second. Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant. This screening function is what allows you to focus and operate effectively in your world. The brain functions differently than other organs. There is an intelligence to it, the ability to reason, to produce feelings, to dream and plan, to take action, and relate to other people.

> cont.

>>38042740
>>38042759

The eye can distinguish among seven million colors. It has automatic focusing and handles an astounding 1.5 million messages -- simultaneously. Evolution focuses on mutations and changes from and within existing organisms. Yet evolution alone does not fully explain the initial source of the eye or the brain -- the start of living organisms from nonliving matter.

> tl;dr: With how fucking complicated everything is, the odds of it having assembled completely naturally without an intelligent mind overseeing it are infintisemal. How can all of that be an accident?

>>38042027
Can you prove to me that a god doesn't exist? Humans have only explored 5% of the ocean and probably less of outer space, we still don't know whether or not aliens exist but some asshole on the internet knows that there's no god.

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>>38042814
perfect
>i think we're done here

>>38042773
>>38042759
>>38042740
>https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091124201616AAbzhM3
Hmm, Hmm.

Thanks anyway for spreading the message and literally doing god's work

>>38042628
>>38042628
Bad argument tbqh you are trying to say that God has to exist because reality exists but reality is a human-made concept and there is no reason for the rest universe to abide by it. Just because an eternal universe that has always been there is a difficult concept for us to understand, it doesn't mean it can't possibly be true

>>38042740
> If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible.
Bullshit. The distance between Sun and Earth is not constant since the orbit is not the circle. It's an ellipse. The difference between the closest and the farthest point is five million kilimeters with the average being about 148 million kilometers.

>>38042919

If we're talking about astronomical distances, the goldilocks zone is pretty damn slim.

>>38042886
>Just because an eternal universe that has always been there is a difficult concept for us to understand, it doesn't mean it can't possibly be true
yeah, but now that you have made that claim you have to actually prove the universe was always there. I was just basing my premises on the commonly known scientific fact that the universe began with the big bang.

>>38042759
You fugging retard
It's not that the conditions of earth are precisely what is required for life; instead, life as we know it was shaped and formed by the environment. Your thinking is just so narrow that you assume that life can only be defined as something similar. Additionally, there are so many different variations of planets that even if something had a near 0% chance of happening, it would still probably happen.

>>38042494

No arguments here I see.

>>38042560
>>38042571
>>38042628
>>38042703
>>38042740
>>38042759
>>38042773

>LE EPIC "YOU CAN'T PROVE GOD DOESN'T EXIST AND HE EXISTS BECAUSE OF THE COMPLICATED NATURE OF THE UNIVERSE MEME" :)))))))

God of the gaps arguments are not actual arguments you stupid christDINDUS.

>>38042990
>God of the gaps arguments are not actual arguments you stupid christDINDUS.
Great reply there lad. You really btfo of us.

A lot of the arguments there didn't even use this logic and instead tried to prove that God exists through logic and not just saying "complicated so muh god exists".

Reread:>>38042628

>>38042941
>yeah, but now that you have made that claim you have to actually prove the universe was always there
Actually, you first claimed that the universe had to begin at some point, so the burden of proof is on you. The Big Bang Theory can't help you there because none of it suggests that there was only one big bang or that it didn't happen inside an already existing universe. It's true that no one can prove the universe was always there, but you can't prove it wasn't always there. Therefore, your argument is pretty weak as it can't reliably convince the other party

>>38043076
>The Big Bang Theory can't help you there because none of it suggests that there was only one big bang or that it didn't happen inside an already existing universe
What one can assume from the big bang is that this universe began with a cause. Even if it was only the beginning of a new universe and there might of have been a previously existing universe this still doesn't mean that even that universe had to have had a previous cause to have caused it. This then would lead one to a loop. If that thing had a cause what caused it and what cause the thing that caused that and so on until it will go on for an infinity and nothing in creation could have existed.

>>38043143
>This then would lead one to a loop. If that thing had a cause what caused it and what cause the thing that caused that and so on until it will go on for an infinity and nothing in creation could have existed
You are again relying on reality existing to prove that there had to be a God, and on top of that you are claiming that creation wouldn't be possible in an infinite, eternal universe where big bangs take place, which while can't be proven wrong, it can't be proven right either, and you are in a worse position because probability is not on your side.

Trying to prove God exists by bringing up the origin universe is usually futile. If you keep insisting that the universe had to begin at some point and that creation had to be started by God, you risk being asked the retarded but reliable question
>then who created God?
And there you have two options. To say that God was created by someone else, which is contradictory because God is eternal and omnipotent by default. Or to say that God was always there, shooting yourself in the foot because you'd be admitting that the eternal existence of something you had been arguing against, actually exists, and you go back to trying to prove it isn't the universe's case.

>>38043507
>You are again relying on reality existing to prove that there had to be a God.
Reality does exist. Even if the world around us doesn't exist our consciousness does since we are using it as we speak and are aware of it. I mean even if everything around us is an illusion we have to be conscious to be aware of it. This would then lead one to think what put us in this illusion. I would say it is God. Also, I'll gladly go into more detail if you wish.

>eternal existence of something you had been arguing against, actually exists, and you go back to trying to prove it isn't the universe's case.
Yeah, but God has always been there, and we know that the universe had a beginning. Unless you can disprove decades of research and prove otherwise. The I'll be all ears!

>>38042027
He lets gay pedos get away with their pedotchery.

>>38043985
>The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
2 Peter 3:9

Don't worry, they'll get what's coming to them. Unless they repent of course.

>I used to be roman catholic (deeply religious)
>Now agnostic
>Overwhelmed by world(meaningless random cruelty, injustice, pain and suffering) i have rejected an idea of god
>I miss time, when i was believer. I had sense of purpose, now its only survival and suffering.
>Sometimes i think that God exists, but he doesn't care about us or rejected us.
>In world as huge as ours no entity cares about us, we are doomed to death without anything after it.

>>38044077
>Overwhelmed by world(meaningless random cruelty, injustice, pain and suffering) I have rejected an idea of God
If you have some time, I would love to talk to you regarding some of these issues. Perhaps we can have a discussion that by the end of we will all come to a sound agreement.

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>>38042628
Can't wait to see all the athe-cucks try to refute this.

>>38044065
How do we know what's bad btw?
Are the laws we create the same laws god agrees with or not.

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>>38042027
Because chicken tendies exist.

Checkmate, gaythiests.

>>38044241
>Are the laws we create the same laws God agrees with or not.
Not always. This can be seen by the legalisation of homosexual marriage. Something that God disagrees with. Since, since he is the creator of all things, is our source of objective morality. He decides what is God and not based on his divine, everlasting and perfect law!

>>38042628
I see your Aquinas and I raise you David Hume.
All cosmological arguments fail because of the compositional fallacy.
Rational theology rests or falls with the ontological argument.

>>38042720
I genuinely don't understand, please explain. My understanding is that you put your faith in god, therefore he gives you the whole heaven premium membership

>>38042759
A puddle would think it's hole was perfectly designed for it

>>38044398
>My understanding is that you put your faith in God, therefore he gives you the whole heaven premium membership
You see you've got it all wrong. There is nothing good that humans do. Everything that we do has some, although small at times, have some evil ulterior motive. Think of this. Let's say you saw a poor beggar on the busy street and you gave him some money. Yeah, that's a good deed but let's say God was to look into your heart and say every little bit of intentions and every motive. He will soon find that the reason why you did so was because you wanted to seem like a good person to the people around you and not because of your love of God.

>For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.
Galatians 1:10

In fact, even those who say they believe in Christ can fall victim. Unless you fully do everything for God, then you will truly be saved, but this ulterior motive of sin even affects people's conversion. Meaning we can't even come to God because everything we do has a sinful ulterior motive.
Am I saying ulterior motive a lot?
And so God seeing this he himself gives people the power to come to him. But understand this when someone becomes a Christian it isn't because he chose to but because God chose him.

Hope that answered your quetion.

The only answer is that we have no way of knowing with certainty the existence or nonexistence of god(s). Everything is merely a guess as to what happens after all of this, or a wish as to what you hope will happen.

>>38044244

what is a gaytheist

>>38042740
>Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.
Earth is a planet with life adapted to its conditions, and we don't know if these are the only possible conditions
>The Earth is located the right distance from the sun
It has been speculated that Titan has the right conditions for life and it's way beyond
> The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun
It also deviates from the average by quite a bit, not to mention ice ages fuck up the temperature and life still exists (and that's without even talking about water bears, who don't give a shit about temperature)
>And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents
As the Nile has proven, spilling over means nothing for life, and such conditions are merely beneficial for a few species like us
>Water... colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it
It's also made of common materials, and nothing really says it's completely necessary for life; only for earth life

>>38044548
That sounds like no action you could possibly take will ever be good, so all actions achieve the same results. This would lead to sinners having the same value as the pious, and there would be no point in improving.
How is faith different, given that we perform deeds based on it?

>>38042051
This 2bh, was raised Christian and my life prospects were a lot better when I still believed.
Surrounded by a bunch of non-degenerate people that actually cared about self-improvement etc. and almost guaranteed a qt virgin gf.

>>38044874
>For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.
Not necessarily since those who are pious and do good works are gifted by God to do so.

>How is faith different, given that we perform deeds based on it?
It's because once you have been chosen by God, then you do good works but it isn't of your ow doing or power since you could boast about it, hence the evil ulterior motive,

>For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast
Ephesians 2:8-9

but rather it is, in fact, god working through you and you cannot take credit for which that isn't yours.

>Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Philippians 2:13

>>38045165
How do I know I'm acting out of faith though? What is the difference between a greedy medic and a pious medic?
Is it just the soul? How do I know I'm not just pretending really hard then? Do I just have to assume I'm doing it right, or assume I'm doing it wrong and pray for God as if it were a lottery?

>>38045213
>How do I know I'm acting out of faith though?
That's not for me to know. I don't know who the elect are. I can't look into the hearts of men and determine who is truthful and who isn't. All I do is spread the message of the gospel whoever by the grace of God believes, believes.

>How do I know I'm not just pretending really hard then
There are multiple ways you can tell, but the main way is to see how you act in private. It's easy going church every Sunday and shouting out and saying words of praise while people watch you. But while in private, when we are most sincere, is when the evidence of faith is truly declared.

It's not about works since we are saved by faith alone, but our works are evidence of our faith since a truly faithful man will do good works not out of obligations since he already knows he is saved and cannot add on to the perfect work of Christ but rather he just loves God and so does what is pleasing to Him.

>Do I just have to assume I'm doing it right, or assume I'm doing it wrong and pray for God as if it were a lottery?
Don't worry about that. Just keep in worship and follow God and all this will be evident by the fruits of your faith IE your works. Remember if God chose you to believe he would also make you a better person by sanctifying you.

>being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
Philippians 1.6

If you are saved you will stay in the faith, do good works and you will see yourself grow as a better Christian each and every day. But don't feel bad about perhaps falling since people grow at different rates. But just remember that you are in god's hands.

>>38045431
>That's not for me to know
>Don't worry about that
Why should I bother to believe then?
>But while in private, when we are most sincere, is when the evidence of faith is truly declared
So only I can ever know. That's really no different from believing in nothing, or not believing anything (markedly different). Just to clear it up, I do believe morals are necessary for a society and for an individual. But if I really can't know, there's no point in pretending there is a God (in the case that there isn't).

>>38045513
>Why should I bother to believe then?
I, a human don't know about you, you do. You can know your own intentions, but I am not God to know that. All I'll say is be honest with yourself and with God.

>. That's really no different from believing in nothing, or not believing anything (markedly different).
You see the thing is the morals are clearly set out in the Bible. There are 600+ commandments in the bible, all that we must follow, but God knew we couldn't do it and so rather revealed it to us to show how helpless we are. That is why Christ died. He lived that perfect life that we had to, and on the cross, he gave it up to a people who weren't even seeking him.

We here on earth mainly rely on works to see who is good in society, and that's good, but e can never know who are our real friends and who are just out to get us.

We, humans, operate on a much lower standard than God. It's not so much about being perfect to us just about being good enough. In the Bible multiple laws are set out, objective morals laid out for us to abide by. This isn't to say that we can never know but rather God has given us the instinct to desire fairness and know right fro wrong. We are to follow this god-like sense, since we were created in the likeness of God.

>>38045693
Look, I can see that all your arguments have an internal logic, but they rely on believing in God in the first place.
You ask me to be honest with myself and with a being that may or may not exist. And you say morals came from Him. Did they, really? Is it impossible to be pious by following a human-made code? You say Yes, since God has his code. Does he?
In short, do I need God to do good to others and to myself? The answer to that is "no, only God gives you faith, which is the engine of goodness".
This takes us back to "how do I know I'm being pious?", and apparently the answer is "don't you worry your head about it".
So I don't see why a good agnostic wouldn't be accepted in Heaven then, since he did good anyway. Which means, in turn, that we wouldn't need faith.
More accurately, that you can (in theory) be good without believing, and that organized religion is a support that pushes you towards goodness.

>>38045693

Go back to the 8ch board you came from. I know you guys have proselytizing sessions here. Nobody is silencing your voice as a Christian nor are they taking away your right to practice or your right to make your voice be heard.

>>38045810
>Look, I can see that all your arguments have an internal logic, but they rely on believing in God in the first place.
I'm glad you think so. But yeah, of course, because without God there is no such thing as objective morality. Everything is just opinion, and one has no right to say to another, "your opinions or morality are wrong," since it'll all just be based on opinion.
Am I saying opinion too many times?

>In short, do I need God to do good to others and to myself?
Yes, you do, and I have outlined why. I'll either copypasta it here or link it later.

>"how do I know I'm being pious?", and apparently, the answer is "don't you worry your head about it".
What I meant was if you truly have faith then it will be seen by your works. But you must first be patient and not worry. Is a child who is being held up by his father afraid that she might fall? Of course not. Same goes for us. We know that we are being guarded through faith and do not fear these things. So when I say don't worry I mean God will do all the work through you.

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>>38045810
>So I don't see why a good agnostic wouldn't be accepted in Heaven then, since he did good anyway.
When you say good, to who standards are we talking about? If we're talking about man's standards then is that good enough? We as humans have immensely low standards when compared to that of the creator of the universe, and it is his standard, at the end of the day, that we must fulfil in order to achieve eternal life.

There is, in fact, a story in the OT that directly answers your query. Read this from Isaiah...

>And I said: "Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts!"
Isaiah 6:5

Now, this verse might not make a lot of sense to you but here is the context. Here, Isaiah is speaking, who was the most holy man in all of Jerusalem. If you saw him, you would think to yourself that he is clearly a man sent by God. He might have even of thought of himself like this also, but who was he comparing himself to? To other people! But in this wonderful verse Isaiah sees the Lord surrounded by all of his angels as they scream "Kadosh", which mean Holy, Isaiah looks in awe and finally sees the true standards of goodness. As what does the most holy man in all of Jerusalem say, if not then the world? "I am a man of unclean lips, surrounded by people of unclean lips".

You see Isaiah saw the true standards that needed to be met and after seeing it, he saw his true sinful self. And so we must think the same of all people. No one is without sin, and because of this, we all deserve death. But if one humbles himself believes then he is saved.

>>38045910
>Nobody is silencing your voice as a Christian nor are they taking away your right to practice or your right to make your voice be heard.
Didn't say you was. Just here preaching. But you seem to be doing just that with telling me to go back to 8chn. A site I have only gone to a couple of times in my life.

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Every day with these threads.

Every day tons of replies.

Every day no one's mind is changed and the world is made no better.

Why don't you ass burgers just watch some debates on the topic?

>>38042027
There are historical accounts of Jesus's crucifixion other than the bible. I know I am reading the truth when I read his words. I hope someday that you will find the truth for yourself.
Forgive, and ye shall be forgiven.

>>38046073
Amen! I wish you the best brother. Also, I'm the mod of a Christian discord server and would love it if you could join. If you want to, I can post the link for you to join.

>>38045999
>to who standards are we talking about?
I'm talking about the standards I need to live my life well. Given that I live among humans, animals, plants and minerals, I assume I require morals that include and protect all of those or at least sacrifice the least.
Since God is metaphysical, I'm not including him in things that need to be protected.
Now, why do I need to answer to God, if I don't know whether he exists or not? And if "you can't know" is the answer, how does that differ from agnosticism?
>You see Isaiah saw the true standards that needed to be met and after seeing it, he saw his true sinful self
Did he? How do we know? If a human standard isn't doing well, we improve it. And if we talk about divine standards beyond us, then we shouldn't even be able to understand them. In this case all we can do is call ourselves sinful without knowing why, and performing under the morals we do know of (the human ones).
Which, again, makes a good theist the same as a good agnostic.

>>38046038

Christians never shut up about how oppressed they are and how modern society has turned it's back on Christianity. That is their main justification for spamming fedora memes everywhere in their minds.

>>38046073

>There are historical accounts of Jesus's crucifixion other than the bible. I know I am reading the truth when I read his words

I'm going to need something other than claims made on the internet. It's nothing personal, I just have no reason to believe what you say over what anyone else says.

>>38046183
>I'm talking about the standards I need to live my life well.
>Now, why do I need to answer to God
But those standards are low. We're talking about god's standards here. Everything around you is going to perish one day. Any act done for something other than God is meaningless since everything is gonna die one day, but anything done for God is eternal since you are doing a good act to an eternal being. This is who it really matter to since, in the end, he is the one you will be answering to.

>I don't know whether he exists or not?
I have given one answer here: >>38042628

>Did he? How do we know?
Isaiah was the holiest man in all of Jerusalem. If you saw him, then you would be impacted by his righteousness. The guy would have had the patience of a saint, the care of an angel and the love that can only come from God. But did you know what happened when he saw the truly one objective form of good and realised that he is filthy before God? It's easy to think that you are hood when the greatest good you have seen is from an imperfect being but if you saw God, then you would realise how bad yu truly are.

Think of it this way let's say you've eaten cake and you thought that cake was the best cake you have ever eaten, then came along the best cake in the world, and you took a bite. Upon realising how good it was, when you would have eaten your own favourite cake again then you would like it less since you have tasted an even better one and so the only one would not seem as good.

That is like us humans we have low stands and like Isaiah, if we saw God then we would truly understand just how imperfect we are.

>>38046291
I never said I was oppressed!

>I'm going to need something other than claims made on the internet.
Jesus's existence is one of the facts of history. Virtually all theist and atheist scholars alike believe that he existed. Most just doubt his miracles, but I believe there is even good evidence for that.

>>38046183
>If a human standard isn't doing well, we improve it
But it will never be perfect and be prone to failure. Even modern ideas of morality all came from Christianity. From honour based to moral based ideas of morality.

>And if we talk about divine standards beyond us, then we shouldn't even be able to understand them, In this case, all we can do is call ourselves sinful without knowing why
Oh, we do it's just that we are helpless to them due to our sinful nature.

>Which, again, makes a good theist the same as a good agnostic.
Nope, when we do good, it's literally God working within us. Even Moses, Abraham, Isaiah and Paul. All of them weren't doing good works by their own power, due to them then being able to boast, but rather God working withing them.

>>38042027
God exists. It's obvious. Just think about it.

>For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
Romans 1:19

>>38046919
whoa really forced me to cogitate