ITT we discuss art and debate philosophical subjects. I'll

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>>37958899
I'll post some pics to keep it alive for a bit.

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>>37958899
I don't feel like anyone is born "anything"
we're all like clay, ready to be moulded by our environment

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I thought this was an original post

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>>37958947
Well it makes sense.
Every hero and every villian could be swapped had the circumstances been right.

>>37958947
there are factors of our personality that are given to you from birth: sex (and coming with it personality changing hormones), learning capability, physical potential...
the possibility of someone being born with a starting hand such that he cant help but be "evil" (whatever OP means by that, its irrelevant here) doesnt seem far fetched.

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>>37958899
im draw art

>>37958899
Define evil. We have to give it a measure or definition or else everyone will just insert whatever they think is evil into the conversation.

>>37959044
(((((((I have a style script on and cant tell if this is a blue board)))))))

>>37958899
"Evil" isn't a concept that exists independent of human thought, so it depends on what one considers to be "evil".

If "evil" means "devoid of morals", then people can be born "evil".
If "evil" means "want to harm others for malicious reasons", then people probably have to become "evil" over time.

My response would just be that "evil" doesn't exist.

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>>37958899
>Do you believe that people are born evil or made evil?
Evil is a persistent force present to corrupt everyone and everybody. Evil first and foremost to me is wishing ill on somebody undeserving, being deceiving in your attempts, being aggressive, betraying somebody's trust etc.

No man is free from evil. Only thing you can do is to recognize evil within you and try to tame your evil. When you notice ill in others, make sure to point it out to them.

So in a sense, all people are born evil, but some are born not recognizing their evils.

(sorry if I sound pseudointellectual, I'm a bit hungover and feel like crap so I browse some boards atm but I hope my bit helps)

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>>37959039
that's still based on their environment, namely the situation they've been put in from birth, although I do see what you mean by the effects of gender, which might as well be random

>>37958899
I believe people are mostly made evil, that being said, a part of our personality is inherited from our ancestors, similarly to how bulldogs are prone to acting violently.

>>37959060
"Evil" as in deliberately ruining lives and hurting dogs.

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>>37959079
Be as Intellectual as you want friend.
We are here to talk after all.

>>37958899
Evil is a concept nobody really uses anymore, especially in philosophy silly

>>37959128
how can you ruin a life if you cant even tell what a good life is?
if hurting dogs is evil, why isnt hurting other animals such as pigs?
its just human convention. the whole concept of evil is awkward.

>>37958899
Whether "evil" exists or not is non consequencial to anything. Truly, it is up to each individual to want to discuss "evil" and whether it matters to them. This applies to all concepts.

The only thing that is certain, is that all people (concious people) deserve everything that happens to them. This is because they make a decision every moment to remain alive, fully aware of the dangers of living.

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>>37959160
That's why i said it was simple.
>>37959174
I see hurting dogs as evil because I've grown up with them. I don't see hurting pigs as evil because they are commonly used for food and such. Sure my heart will wrench at the sight of actual abuse but most farms excute humanely.

>>37958899
Neither of them
We define good and evil, so there cant be an objective measurement, that applies to every human. We all hold different values and even if we all agree on utilitarism there is still more to that. Virtually everything considered evil has its roots in selfishness. Putting his own desires over somebody elses. Which is really the most natural way of thinking/acting. And if you dont view nature itself as evil, then you cant do the same with humanity which, allthough it tries its best not to, is still a part of nature. This doesnt even take into account that our way of thinking is completely defined by our enviroment.

>>37959222
>I see hurting dogs as evil because I've grown up with them. I don't see hurting pigs as evil because they are commonly used for food and such
all subjective just like i was saying. we cant base the concept of evil on your childhood.

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Alright I've gotten some good answers.
Are your brains moving and all that? Great! If not that's still cool.
Is the media too far into the common mans life?
Why are we here?
Will there ever be "peace" or anything resembling it on the earth?
Discuss.
>>37959267
True enough

>>37959174
Yea. I believe that the weight that good and evil hold are easy to understand on a feelings basis because, as humans, we have logical facilities and empathy to give us a good approximation of understanding.

The problem lies in that we are individual mortal beings who define evil and good on the basis that it is either harmful or not to you. The way evil is defined is through that limited scope.

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>>37958899
Humans weren't born with morality, silly. It is simply human nature to have impulses and act upon these impulses; whether these actions are considered "good or bad" (or "good and evil", as the slaves believe) depends the rules and customs of each society. We invented evil.

So, in short, we are by nature all capable of desiring to do things that are considered "evil", but we wouldn't be able to tell that they were wrong if we weren't told that they are wrong by millenia of tradition. And sometimes, knowing that doing something is wrong just makes us want it even more. That's the best kind of evil.

>>37959157
Thank you!

>>37959160
I know that evil certainly exists. In philosophy, evil is considered for example deceiving people to serve your goals while it's hurting them.

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>>37959458
Honestly, I believe this.

>>37959075
This is a good answer, anon. You said it better than I would have.

>>37959327
The question of the media is a complicated one. On the one hand, the creation of societies that are larger than the scope of man makes it so that they will ultimately end up being created. From that convenience, as lazy humans, we saw it right to buy into that system. Instead of it being pushed on us a nuisance, we actively beg for more and more and more. The human desire of escapism may have a hand in that, but it's all pretty nebulous. With all that being said, sure. I think we're at a point of over saturation that's not good for our biology.

Peace on Earth? That seems pretty impossible. From the beginning of man to now, there has always been strife. And where there isn't strife, we create it. Just look at the creation of all these fake genders and telling everyone that they're oppressed. We used to fight each other over land or resources, and we still do, but because we have a relatively stable system, a new battlefield has to be created. So no, peace on Earth is most likely impossible unless we all go Borg to turn individuals into a common being.

We are here because we are. Nothing more, nothing less.

>>37959458
now we're talking, this guy gets it

>>37959222
No, you where talking about how evil is an actual thing that exists and i'm telling you i believe it doesn't as do the majority of people who discuss these matters my dear friend (except for religious people of course but they don't really count)

>>37959222
>excute humanely.
kekked. mind if i execute you humanely?

>>37959327
>Will there ever be "peace" or anything resembling it on the earth?
That is absofuckinglutely impossible, As much as people like to wax poetic about how much better we are than animals, we still are animals, its hardwired in our brains that we want more, more food, more fuck, bigger nests, the usual shit. There will always be fights for more.
Besides that, we just like to fight, even if we don't have anything to fight for, we will invent shit to fight for. Look at religion, football clubs and console wars. It's all the exact same shit, different smell.

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>>37959589
I guess.
Original post is original.

>>37959505
You're thinking of morality. Get your concepts right if you want to talk about philosophy

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>>37959618
Not really. I enjoy being alive.

>>37959677
Morality is not part of philosophy? What is morality then, related to religion? Fuck off fedora.

With healthy instinctual self interest, most people are born on the path towards evil, with varying predispositions towards being lead astray.

>>37959458
No. What seperates us from other animals is our capability of having a deep understanding of our own actions. Morality isn't invented, morality is the result of human nature. The CONCEPT of what morality is isn't defined and changes from time to time. Our ability to decide what is good and what is bad has come with our evolution from brainless monkeys to sentient human beings

how will .r9k/ go down in history?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAExa9P7hME

>>37959749
Idiot. You where talking about evil and i'm telling you that evil is a concept that is obsolete in philosophy now days and people prefer to use the term "actions that are moraly wrong". Learn to read

>>37960001
I am not speaking in christian terms, so I don't mean being devilish or possessed, rather the "actions that are morally wrong" like you said. I think OP meant the same. Why get so carried away with details?

>>37959458

Maybe we weren't born with a moral spectrum of "good and evil", but we are born with the ability to feel compassion and empathy. The concept of the Golden Rule applies almost universally to the physiological element of morality, which results in similar attitudes the world over to malevolent inflictions of pain and perceptions of other kinds of suffering (at least for those within our "tribe"), but societal mores then add another layer over generations of development of religions and cultural expectations.

>>37959853
Being able to decide what is good and what is bad has nothing to do with sentience. Every object may cause us appetite / desire (and thus, be considered "good") or cause us aversion (and thus be considered "bad"). Even animals are capable of this: a dog will learn what will get him food and what will get him kicked. However, these words are only true to the person who uses them, and they make no general rule of what is "good and bad".

It is only after people live in society and need to define rules that will allow them to live together that you can have a system of morals.

>>37960100
Because he doesn't have anything to say

>>37960171
>we are born with the ability to feel compassion and empathy
T. Rousseau

>>37960231

I don't know anything about Rousseau, and just because we're born with it doesn't mean it's cultivated to the same extent in everyone

I don't think anyone is born or made evil, I think evil is a human concept that could be defined as any act that prevents or harms human flourishing e.g. murder.

>>37960100
It's important that we keep strict definitions of things. Before we introduced wrong or right, we introduced evil and good, something that encompasses a much larger scope than human morality. Since this is a public forum it's easy to get assblasted about wanting to be strict with these things, but in order to have any meaningful conversation, communication must be something established rather than colloquial .

>>37960201
>what is empathy
The whole concept of morality revolves around empathy. A dogs, or any other non-sentient animals, drive in it's decision making revolves around desire. Yes, they are capable of feeling certain emotions and empathy towards other dogs and humans, but they are incapable of abtract thought which is the one main requirement when it comes to understanding the whole concept of what morality is. Humans have this capability thanks to our biological evolution. And yes, the concept of morality hasn't actually been properly defined but morality isn't the result of a complicated society. What people consider to be good or to be bad exists in any kind of social group, from tribal people living in the amazon rain forrest to a group of eight year olds who get together to play a game of football. It's the basis of human interaction.

>>37960502
Problem is that it's pretty much implied already by the person that evil and good are moral values, not objective ones. Maybe for someone religious, those values are absolutes, but I don't think many christians find it decent to visit his board for discussion.

Now, how would you define a deed to be evil (by your definition of something morally ill)?

>>37960100
>>37960220
If you two understood anything about philosophy you'd know where i'm coming from and why it's very important not to confuse term that are very different from each other. It's like saying comunism and socialism are the same thing for example

>>37959039
maybe not completely "evil" but with inclinations, passed down genetically
example: perfectly normal people offing themselves out of the blue

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>>37960577
It isn't really implied but let me try to convince you why it's important. Let's say there are 4 things we each have in our heads about what something evil is. When we use colloquial terms or believe that something is just implied, let's say 1 of those things get lost in translation. Over the course of a conversation, you might get frustrated why the other person isn't understanding what you mean, but you fail to notice is that 25% of the meaning of whatever you're trying to convey is already lost before a word hits the page.

In terms of moral ill, I believe it generally comes down to knowing the destruction caused by actions. Of course, we have guts feelings and reflexive reactions due to our biology as well as societal norms (for if we didn't have these we cannot judge the abnormal), but evil is probably most measurable as damage done with intent. If a bomb went off destroying a town, but it was due to a failure in the mechanisms of the device, then one can say that although it is tragic, it is not evil or morally ill. Now one can argue that the creators of the bomb are at fault for creating a faulty device. Although that argument holds water, we are unfortunately, imperfect beings that grasp for the heavens any chance we get. Now, if the device was set off by an individual or group, they would be the source of the destruction, and thus morally ill or evil. They had knowledge of the consequences and therefore knew that they were to become negatives in the eyes of the normal.

>>37960577
And i'm telling dude that the concept of good and evil is a simplification of our human nature. You should think of it as a spectrum, not as a black or white type senario. People are born with specific genes that lead to certain behaviours, every type of behavioural gene is triggered by a specific enviroment. To say that people are either born one way or another is just stupid

>>37959536
>Peace on Earth?
It is impossible, the complete disappearance of conflict is unnatural. Our competitive nature is a gift.

My view is that true, objective evil doesn't exist. Evil is left to the eye of the beholder. It depends on societal, cultural, legal and religious standards. It's impossible to be born "evil"- evil varies based on location, but babies are the same everywhere. To answer your question, they're made evil.

>>37960709
>it's very important not to confuse term that are very different from each other
True, but avoiding a word that isn't stylish in your group anymore, only to then use the same concept with more words achieving no further specificity or clarity from your definition of that word, not so important.

Philosophy is the root of evil in man. Simple as that. There is no evil until you come up with a concept and a name for whatever you determine to be wicked.

>>37960843
>>37960800
So according to this, terrorism could be called as evil?

>>37960907
>objective evil doesn't exist
someone has a million dollars and mugs a hobo just to get the hobos dollar

how is that not evil?

>>37961055
How is it evil? It just is.

>>37961090
it just is is a weak argument,you can apply "it just is "to literally everything

>>37960800
You're looking at it the wrong way. Whether a moral action is good or bad it depends on the impact that action has on the people around you or on a larger scale. If an action has a positive impact that goes beyond the negative impact then that action is a moraly good one and vice versa. The philosophical thought question of the train explains this really good. The problem lies in deciding/knowing whether your action had more of a positive or a negative impact and this is where people find the debate

>>37961105
Maybe that's because things just are. There is nothing more to it, hm?

>>37961179
If things are just are why bother doing anything?

>>37960977
I think you need to read some philosophy because you have no idea what you're talking about
>>37961007
One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. You understand that the reason these problems exist is because each side believes they are in the right?

>>37961179
Yeah lets not question anything at all and just accept everything around us the truth

>>37961007
Not evil, morally ill. And even if I do believe it to be morally ill, those on the other side disagree. Moral ill is determined by which side one identifies with in the conflict. That's when you have to look at history and the knowledge we do have to get back to a proper answer. Just like the bomb analogy I gave earlier, we as humans like to reach to greater heights even when our actions might create effects beyond our desires. The American and Russian proxy war can be seen as part of the reason that modern day terrorism exists. On the other hand, the religion of Islam makes their followers very prone to committing acts we perceive as terror.

Moral goods and evils exist inseparably from man. We do not live in a world where everyone can win. From the smallest work interactions to the global scale, it is just impossible to avoid conflict.

>>37961201
And you said I had the weak argument. There is no reason to not exist just because of a philosophical viewpoint. The nihilists understand life is meaningless but can still reconcile the fact that existence is better than non-existence.

>>37961055
Some would argue that it's survival of the fittest and therefore not evil.

>>37961158
Well that only holds true if you believe in a utilitarian view of the world.

>>37958899
Some of both. Some people become evil and some are just born fucked in the head

>>37961179
You say that but you don't believe it. Humans are incapable of experiencing nihilism even if they understand it

>>37961262
Things just being doesn't automatically verify them as true or false.

>>37961335
I think it's probably half true. If the mind is capable of understanding nihilism, the body would be what's holding it back right? But I suppose there is no mind without the body. Even if we have theorized of brain-vats, we do not know the affects that will have on the brain as we have not tried it yet.

But, if we do take your argument to the extreme, for example Apophenia, it seems to hold water as the human mind looks to be wired to see patterns where none exist.

>>37959327
>Is the media too far into the common mans life?
Totally. Today we spend more time daydreaming about better lives, because we have access to them via fb, insta or whatever, instead of keeping our mind in the real world.
We think about things that will never impact our lives. Do you think /pol/ tards ever saw an immigrant ? Or that gender should be something anyone should care about ?
There used to be a time were you didn t knew more than you see, and where your head wasn t filled with useless information. I belive in anarcho-primitivism. We are far too long gone in societies that surpass our understandings, and medias just add the cherry on top of the cake.
There is no notion of self and existence anymore, as i see by my window hundreds of people i never met, and i hear everyday that hundreads of aother people have died. I just feel like another brick on the wall, one in billions.
Media have destroyed our ability to feel human and remplaced it with emptyness of being seen as numbers.

>>37958899
That dinosaur on the left looks like a big tree.

>>37959044
Those elf ears are way too long, why do people draw this elf style?!

I bet you spell demon "daemon" too.

>>37961838
That's becuase it is.

>>37962106
Woah.
It does kinda look like a tree.

Evil is a point of view. In my view the jedi are evil

>>37963137
YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE ANAKIN
oreganoli

>>37963137
And yet, everyone views you as a fucking faggot.

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>>37958899
Interesting thread, but I don't think that I can participate much. I am artistically talented and I study design, but I have working class background and I am not well read enough, as we, as design students, are not required to read much (aside from professional theories). Also I never managed to be part of the circles in my uni, being socially unaccepted for being a failure in a few things, so I never learnt the academic style of speech. I post image of a painting by one of my favorite artists tho, that is Max Ernst. I love his style and his worlds and also use them as a source of inspiration for my design works. I already found him when I was about 11, browsing books in the library. He made me want to become a painter. Unfortunately that plan got debunked, as my mom could not tolerate the smell of turpentine and oil colors in our home.

As for the Evil, it is IN ALL OF US, occasionally rising its head when the circumstances are right. It's a combination of the primitive impulses we have, and being a human. Only a HUMAN can be truly evil, as only a human has a THEORY OF MIND, that enables him to INTENTIONALLY cause pain to other living beings, as well as feeling compassion towards them.

Well, off now, to sort out the killer files on my PC to leave for a vacation soon.

>>37958899
Genetically evil? no
Deterministically going to be evil? yes

I think people probably have a basic goodness given our social structure.

>>37959327
The media is a reflection of peoples base emotions (fear, anger, compassion,) + what peterson talks about regarding people.searching for 'meta truths'.

I think we all make our own individual truths as to why we're here. The cynic in me wants to say biological impulses but minds seem to drift to easy explenations for complex answers.

Star trek unironically gave me hope for the human race. I think it's very possible, it would basically require more innovation in agriculture for african & eastern countriea and painful wealth redistribution or no need for personal currencies.

>>37959536
>We used to fight each other over land or resources, and we still do, but because we have a relatively stable system, a new battlefield has to be created.
It's happening because of the basic nature of HUMANS being PACK-ANIMALS. We have an inherent need to divide ourseles into PACKS, and it only can happen through "othering" and even demonizing the ones who are different from us, for example, having different political views. Hence the mega-idiotical political polarization of the modern society, or the mega-idiotical polarization between the intellectuals and non-intellectuals, or between "normies" and "non-normies" on this forum. Homo Sapiens is one of the (Great) APE SPECIES and thus behaves like one. It's a programming we can not change, at least for tens of thousands of years to come.

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>>37958899
First off, what is 'evil' for you?

>>37965209
The philosophical question of whether morality is absolute, relative, or illusory leads to questions about the nature of evil, with views falling into one of four opposed camps: moral absolutism, amoralism, moral relativism, and moral universalism

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>>37958899
There is no such thing as good and evil, it's all just one gray area. Everything we do is justified at some point otherwise we wouldn't do it and if somthing can be justified it can't be inherently "evil"

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>>37958947
>>37959039
This, people are made evil or good, shaped by their experiences and environment. Though part of their character does come from their DNA, in the end it doesn't determine who they become.

Since we seemed to delve into 'what is evil, are people evil and does it exist?'

To me evil isn't robbery, cheating or spiteful gestures.
To me evil is intentional rational acts of harm physically(planned murder, terrorism, torture) or mentally trying to ware someone down.

To me every man & woman has the capacity for evil, but it's very easy to confuse that with unquestioned social biases;
People are super maluable,we're shaped by our friends & family, relative ranking in social & acedemic structures, advertising, societal norms(nazis, buddhists, cults), etc.

As for the last part of the question, I'm tired. Feel free to try and answer 'what is evil, does it exist & are people evil?'

>>37959222
you're evil. more than people who hurt dogs

>>37965314
Then it is necesary to especify on wich stand we are talking about 'evil' if we want to tanlk about it